 Alright, thanks for staying with us. Now navigating the passing of a loved one is never easy But the prevalence of social media can make it that little bit harder, right? Grief expert Margaret Rice shares how not to put your foot in it online It's easy to feel overwhelmed when it comes to managing death etiquette in the Instagram age Should I post about a friend's death? Should I tag a photo of myself and the diseased and who should I Negotiate these things with you know, sure you can Google a list of do's and don'ts But you won't get what you need ultimately the best that death etiquette is heart Language like any heart language death etiquette is not one-size-fits-all. It's nuanced and it needs You to make it genuine now What are the societal do's and the societal don'ts when managing loss now? That's a conversation today Please let's hear what you have to say remember you can join the conversation send us an SMS or what's up to 08-1 803-466-3 can also treat others at we should have come on with a hashtag with sure. All right, so Just When we were doing the countdown to the project that the talk show we produced over two weeks about two weeks now Thursday 20th, I can never forget that date because we were doing counts down to our Projects take off for the production the TV show that I did and We didn't know I mean our producer lost her father that same day And I remember her calling me that morning crying so hard and saying that she didn't know that we were doing a Countdown we were counting down to actually to launch a project and we didn't know that the countdown was also Counting down to her father's loss Yeah Loss is a big thing and it was only when you are in the shoes of the person that is in it that you would understand how How how emotionally gripping it can be and so for me, right? Why we are having this conversation now is Everybody is just throwing left right and center conversations that I think for me. They are needless And they have there been some good things that have happened in all of the situation, especially with David O's son For instance, I'll say yes, I was particularly happy when I saw that they said the police had arrested or They've called in about nine or six people into questioning to because You see in the midst of the grief One common mistake that we make I think is We are so engrossed in our pain that we forget to ask why We forget to ask what went wrong You know, sometimes we feel like oh and I hear some religion saying God gives and God takes I get that part I have lost the sister-in-law for instance before and she died while she was trying to have a child and I Kept on till tomorrow. I keep on saying why was the why were they not? Why was an autopsy not done to even understand was it a negligence on the part of the hospital, you know But yes, I get that point that we're griffin at that point But I would have felt a lot more closure if I understood what happened. Why the why, right? So in all of these things, there are things that we should do there are things we should not do Not to do the don'ts are not you. That's not the time to ask Where were you where were the parents because again? That's what we are so quick to do to throw blames and say oh what why didn't you do this? Why didn't you do that? That's not the time sometimes in the moment of grief and pain? You just need to be quiet and just be there. That's not even a time to talk You know, so we can't even control their mouth like they just keep going on and on and on and again We're now with the social media era. This is like a something that is the news is all over globally because the person that is involved in this thing is a global icon Right and so the news is all over globally. So I would I would appreciate if we start to understand that Yes, it might be that this person is out there and everything. What has happened? It requires some level of personalised Dealing and I'm happy when I read somewhere that he is at his father's place Everybody has been and everybody has been cut off because that's what is needed at this time This is not the time to start Because there was it there was something that I remember when and was it Adah, I mean when she passed there was something that we were picking did and I didn't call that out there You went to the funeral. You did a video and everything I felt that was very insensitive So I get the part that we want to console But we have learned we have not we're not separating social media From a griefing person and that's where you know, we have this issue I think we have issues. Let me hear your thoughts quickly then because we need to open our phone lines People tend not to understand what to do when there's a loss or in different things as well They think everything is news Somebody dies. I should be the first to post it Somebody dies. I should be the first to mention it in the Yoruba culture You don't even attend the funeral of someone younger than you as a Practice because you're not supposed to have to leave them by the same token parents are not supposed to have to leave their children So that's why they forbid mothers going to the graves and everything like that You see you hear somebody passed away and you're trying to let them know that you heard it from the horse's mouth So you want to post and say I heard it from a source a reliable source. Why? Because it brings traffic to your page Like you said, I've lost the father and I've lost the very dear sister People make a mistake when you lose somebody to come and preach at you. God gives God takes you don't want to hear that at that point in time I know that they say Yoruba that we don't ask no question. We don't question God But let me tell you something you have a right to keep my list with God when you are in that kind of pain It's between you and God you cry on his shoulders and you tell him what you're going through Nobody has a right to come and start preaching the it is well. God gives God takes it's so Insensitive at that point in time. Somebody lost a child recently a seven-year-old daughter I sent her a message and I said oh you're in my thoughts and The people never go away, but we'll just learn to cope with it Give her examples of what I had lost my bereavements and everything and then one day I posted something as she reacted to it So I tried calling her she didn't pick up So I said you can handle it phone call right now right went on to pray and say not even pray Just talk to her generally like I would and said send me an emoji just to let me know you hear me and she did That's all that needs to be done. Then physically if you're visiting someone who is bereaved may show me Sit down there. Even when the person is elderly and you think oh three score and ten means that they live they should go The pain of losing a parent you can't tell me how to feel the fact that it's a celebration of life doesn't mean that I cannot weep For the loss of somebody that I lost so even when the person is older don't assume. It's okay to be Faco with your statements Meshon is a good practice Meshon will just be nodding. Hmm. Let me hear your thoughts and Well, see when it comes to Loss I don't I most of the time I don't even know how to react around people who have lost someone because I'm someone that I internalize a lot. So When it comes to loss, I'm I'm I might not cry immediately But in my heart of hands, I'm probably bleeding So people have different ways that they deal with loss and it's very very important for us to allow people to deal with loss in their own way Trying to talk them out of it. It's like trying to talk someone out of a bad mood. It's hard Let them come out of it but let them know it's very important for them to know that there are people around them should they want to listen or Vents or you know cry, you know, just let them know that you're out Yeah, right there beside them with them feeling that pain and that hurt with them and you're holding their hand if even though not physically but the instance where people see the need to use it for personnel cloud it's I keep using he bewilds me because it's it's so insensitive a Lot of people you hear a lot of people it's very very important for you to give people their Privacy when something like this happens so that they can deal with their grief and when they're done They might come out and have you know have a response or anything But you wanting to insert yourself into someone else's morning is actually quite bad and quite insensitive You know the line have become so blurred these days That would not know what is being done because people go to any length just to drive traffic to their page on Social media, but let me hear your thoughts your initial thoughts and maybe then we'll open our phone light But anyone really searching for clouds because I read through some comments and it's just being Has felt messages. I mean, I guess because he's a public figure. So, you know, everyone is in this instance, right? Yeah, talking about I'm talking about in general So in general, yeah, um, I Don't know people should just learn to keep their mouth shut to be honest I for one, I'm not one to be expressive. I'm always it's like a confusity. It hits me days After you know, you know, I had a story as well a friend who Through the pregnancy, you know, she was always position social media passing. I don't know her personality I followed her, you know through the whole nine months. I was like a sexy prego, you know, giving us outfits and At her nine month the day from that she lost the baby She literally said she she could feel her baby cake You know the day before and she just went into the hospital the next day and they told her it was like I'm reading the message and I'm I'm confused because I checked her personal. I have no head from I've we've not seen any updates from this baby was happening our baby should be out by now and I'm just confused like You know, I was like, I saw she she made a post, you know Like a letter to the baby and she turned off the comments because obviously you don't want people to you know Say anything and stuff and then later game. She came on her story. I guess it's also her way of, you know dealing yeah of dealing with it and I had no words to say, you know to her I just said I'm sorry It just take take heart to get you know So people should be debt is nothing, you know, anyone wishes for the truth is no matter how bad you think a person is When a person dies, it hits you that almost gone. Oh You you in fact it'll get to the point where I thought with my dad so much and then I was like Listen, you know, so it's such a sensitive topic that I don't think people should just open their mouth and say No matter how the scenario was or how anything was social media. Yes You have a platform to see anything you'd like, but we should be careful and we should also tune into our human factor We know when we're putting certain things online, you know, so how the friend I want us to take a break and quickly I had a friend that I was just speaking to and I was asking, you know I mean when you lost your loved one how what was the most important thing that you wanted if at all You needed anything from from anything you said I mean for him He was just like a bit confused and he was just wishing he could just change what had happened, right? So imagine that kind of a person you then go and say I mean you can actually receive a punch for that You know, but let's go on a break because I love to open the phone lines early and you know I want to ask, you know, if you've if you've been through a loss You know, how did you handle it? What what would you wish you would wish? Yes, people had done right and you know and the things that they shouldn't have done Because I want us to be able to talk to ourselves. So when we go on a break would open our phone lines afterwards stay with us We'll be right back. All right. Thanks for staying with us now if you just tuned in. We're discussing societal do's and don'ts Especially when managing loss now, please let's hear what you have to say Remember, you can join the conversation send us an SMS or what's up to the rate one eight zero three four six six three You can also tweet at us at way show after one or the hashtag way show now Our phone line is now open the number to call is zero seven zero two five zero zero seven seven four nine That's the number to call zero seven zero two five zero zero seven seven four nine Remember the rules turn off the volume of your television set. Somebody was calling the WhatsApp line We can't take the calls on the WhatsApp line. That's the number to call on display All right, so lady you want to say something? Yes, I wanted to say that based on loss, you know how people say You can't tell someone how to agree you really can't I have a friend who lost a son Two years ago on the 1st of October and she still has not been able to deal every single day of her life She's singing Songs tunes her friends myself included is thinking you have three other songs This is me from the outside thinking you have three other songs It's almost as if you're making it seem like they don't matter that this you died when this boy died And you need to adjust and leave for them, but you really can't say anything to anybody You know, I keep going on about my beloved sister my beloved sister my beloved sister That sister died in 1992 it didn't hit me on the 2012 20 years later when they told me she died. I just got up and went to wash clothes I didn't cry I didn't cause she died abroad so I couldn't see her and she had I had seen her three weeks before then Why did it hit me in 2012? You'd have thoughts and what happened a friend of hers died and because I was the closest person to I was close to all her friends So when this other person died it was like the last connection to her had gone and then all of a sudden my mind tells You Austin from Benin, I believe thank you for calling I'm sorry, please we are not here to throw blames, please Don't don't do that, please. Thank you Let's not blame anybody. This this is not it. Let's the investigation the police have already arrested We detained some people for questioning, right? Let's leave them to do their job when the autopsy result comes out and they believe that okay This is what has happened then we cannot talk about that part of the conversation What we are discussing today is how do we as people manage people around us? I've just lost loved one right and this is one thing we shouldn't be found doing like blaming There's not this is not time to throw blames. Let's just keep it away from blames today Sorry NJ, please over to you Yes, well like like you like you said it's not a time to because Everything and people are going to be saying right now just speculations. Everybody's speculating until the autopsy result comes out Well, I am even praying and hoping that there was a CCTV camera Right in the house because most of these houses they all have CCTV cameras So thankfully they've called up all the people that were supposed to be my am caring for the child the caregiver The whatever they all of them are in the police custody for questioning So I am just praying by some that miracle that we have footages That's it because you see you can't just come up and now start to say you want to blame nothing has been said Yeah, the only part that I'm excited about which is what I was saying that when there's a loss We forget the part that we need to investigate which is Jonas and we especially in the part of this world I brought is a normal thing Anybody does the most investigate But here we tell it is God that stick and we don't even try to even find out what happened Right, and then I'm happy that they have gone in the right direction. He needed to have seen the little joy that came to my Mind today when I saw that all that they had yet They had came held some people for questioning that gave me some level of joy I said, okay, finally somebody is doing something right because most times we just tend to just forget about it You know, let me take another caller. Hello You're alive. Yes, go ahead your life Hello, we can hear you go ahead, please It's a very painful one for the videos loss Whatever investigation or everything that they are going to do I'm very sure Continue to learn our lessons but in times of loss I In Nigeria we try a lot in times of how to model and still with somebody that lost somebody Very well That you know, we're trying to bring in the white man's life style into the story the whole situation And it's not making it look like we don't have a tradition But why does this sometimes we won't close shops? Where the hostess will be everywhere will become Because we lost a person or an individual or a family member. Oh, yeah in our tradition We are always together and I hope such kind of and Lifestyle should not Go away from us and we should always understand that when things happen There's always forces of nature that are behind it and nothing happened without the consent of our creator so I just I just felt for the guy and I know that God was training him And for whoever that is losing whatever is losing for now We live in our ability to mourn and be together. We need to learn something especially here in Africa. We need to try our way I got myself. I get you your best old man So you are saying that we shouldn't lose the culture of that togetherness when somebody passes on You know how we rally around the family were there and all of that we shouldn't lose that culture I get you 100% leading up to the Send off Send forth and honoring the person's life We gather around and then all of a sudden everybody disappears and then the person is left alone and the reality hits Let us also have a bit of continuity after do you understand what I mean after the immediate shock and the lane the person in What do they even call it? the internment After that then it is the time to really start not showing the person back to good health and Coping mechanisms a lot of distractions. I need it. Let me take a caller and I'll come to you Mary Um, I'm not sorry state. I believe you're alive My just state are you there? Go ahead Hi, good evening Very well, thank you Thank you Thank you patience. All right. Thank you so much I Don't know if the word to use this patience There are a lot more words we can use in that same to replace patience and that would be even just being sensitive It's one of it. It's just it just takes you You know, yes empathy is the word and that is something that is very People don't that is empathy that would allow you to think before you react or before you use someone's situation God already has our Whatever lined up for us, right? So Let me take a caller then I'll come back to that Lagos I believe Sorry, I'm not hearing your names today Defense from Lagos. Okay. Go ahead Hi, good evening I just asked everybody not to just come and come to me at that moment because it was Thank you. Thank you You know, so what I mean? I hear defense and that's the truth Everybody and this is why they say that it's not a one-size-fit all so what that guy meant when he was talking about pitch You know, he said let her hypertension, you know I think he's just looking for the right word is that in all of those things just become and understand that, you know It was meant to happen I like that thing because that's always what we hear especially from a religious point of view. My point is Yes, right some things will happen, but it's also important that we know why it happened We know what went wrong. Do you understand because? People always come up with different kinds of theories, you know, and make it look like it is wrong for you to investigate when there's a death, you know, and I mean I've seen people I am very sure that if you go and ask the people in the in London even though our Queen was 90 how many years ago now They will still do an autopsy to just have it on record to say these were the things that It's just a simple thing. We're not just used to documenting things in this country, but let's take Loma then I'll come to you Mary, I think you have a comment Loma you're live We can Do The boy who broke his moustache is such a nuisance to the public. So, they didn't give it to him. So now, the moustache, they shall say, what do you want more? Thank you very much. Thank you. Absolutely. I think what I got from what he said, except I didn't hear it correctly, is that not leave them after they've lost somebody. So, it's just like I was saying that. Don't just disappear. Yeah, so, of course. When you feel the excitement or whatever. Then again, we're such funny people, human beings. We're excited about whatever news we hear until the next big thing happens. And then we forget. Don't guess. Some people have money. Let me say something. You know what he was saying? My own, honestly speaking, my own money, I think it can reach 20 years old. I don't know, maybe it's this thing with Scorpios. Because I internalize things a lot. Right? I might not just show the emotions and all of that. But every night I can be crying, I can be sleeping a bit. So, it will be difficult for somebody like me for you to think maybe just one post. I'm over it. You understand? Or one comment, one comforting word would make me get over it. You understand? For me, it might leave me for the rest of my life. Because that's how I am. Especially if the person was really there to me. So, it's something that I am even consciously working on myself to be emotionally strong for anything that can happen. Because you never can tell what will go wrong. You know? But for me to get to that point where somebody starts to think it is one WhatsApp message or a post or put it on status that will make me feel comforted. I don't think that will work for me. When people think that you should have gotten over it. Over it by now. Like this is life. But over it is... Yes, they are. I feel like the problem I have even with Dett is when it comes to the barrel ceremony I had a very distasteful experience with family members and stuff. For me, that was just... Please give me an example of this experience. People who you have not seen before the man was never... I never knew my dad's village until when he died. And you insist that he should be buried there and you insist that we should build a house. I don't understand. The ones that over drama ties. You understand? They've never played any role in my life. They've never said anything and they just show up. It's like from where? And then they're telling me you have to be respected. You have to be kind. And I'm just telling myself if I was older or maybe if I had much money I would just bury my father and call it all. And my mom would say no, you have not married. Mary, we need to go back to this. All these little things. It's just... It's so annoying. It's so... That's a meal. That one is an order, bro. That one is an order. My mom knelt down. My mom knelt down for nine hours when my grandfather passed. Because... I mean, I don't know my father's village. I don't know my mother's village. I only knew my grandfather in Benin. So my grandfather did not allow anybody to go to any village, right? So it was like, okay, she's the person that has been preventing you people from going to the village. Now you would have to come to the village. So my mother knelt down for nine solid hours because she's the first female, her older brother. They actually target him. But because he's lived above all his life, she will say, you know what? You stay in the hiding. Let me deal with them. And so she was there on her knees for nine hours begging these elders. So barrier is a subject topic that my mother will do in a lifetime on its own. I don't understand how people do those things. But what we are even referring to now, it is how the behavior, the culture has changed, right? Especially with the invent of social media. So I get the part that everybody wants to just be associated with this. Are we doing this genuinely because we feel pain for the person that has just lost a loved one? Or we feel that it is a nice thing to do that we are also seen to be in, what's it called? To be consoling the bereaved. Let me speak for myself. I personally posted something today. And the reason why I did was that I had seen a Facebook memory that came up last year, first of February. And I was jumping up saying, oh, this is the energy that I want for the rest of the year and the new year, right? So when that memory came up today, as of yesterday, as of maybe 9 p.m., when we hadn't heard the news, I was looking forward to the first of November. The post of another new month, November bring it on, we're going to do this together and everything. But I woke up, thinking something happened to me yesterday. Personally. I felt that way. Why? A mother is going to bury her child. And myself, like the other day now, I have a 25-year-old. I have a 21-year-old. There's no age they could ever be that would make it okay for them to leave this world before me. He didn't even want to know. He didn't want to know. There was a man that they said was 51 years old that his father was in politics or something. And they said, there's no age that the child can die that it makes it okay for them to leave this world. There's nothing. So there's a woman, I mean, I don't think she's gotten over it. So she was an only child. Her son was a smatic. She actually went mad. She actually ran mad. Because this is someone that she's done his university abroad. He's done his masters. I think he was, he was maybe a second master. She made sure that she's a very wealthy woman. She made sure she poured everything she had. So hoping that this will be her child. So what would you say to that kind of person? She called the pastor. And she was telling the pastor, please wake him up. Because there's nothing he wanted to say at that point. Wake him up. She became hysterical. They had to bring an ambulance to sedate her, like sedate her so that they could take her to the hospital. She had gone, literally she had gone mental. You have to. So when I see certain things happening and I see the insensitivity of people, I keep on wondering, like do you even understand? They can't. Right? You think this person will just go out of the way to cause, these are the things they accuse you of, negligence and all. You think I would go out of my way. Proposal. A child that I can't even, my child's life would negligence. You think I would do that. So I mean, there is no explanation for it. So my point is, that is not the time. You want to now start saying, why didn't you, what did you do? This is not even your business. That's why magic got posted and said, perfect parents, please. This is not the time for you to say what you would have done or you would not have done. Nobody just leave quiet. What about a woman that lost five children in one plane crash? That's it. What do you want to tell such a person? That she should not believe you. God give them, God take care. Or is it the parents of the, that plane crash that happened that three children, father, mother, everybody. So what would you say to the parents? They are believed. That's what I'm saying too. So society, we need to be calm and need to understand that. You see, there are some things that are sacred. Don't touch it. Do you understand? Because when people start to do all of those drama, I keep on wondering, do you even understand the situation? You've not carried a child. Even if you've carried a child, you've not lost a child. So you cannot even say what you would do and what you would not do. But let's take comments from our audience quickly. I have one. When people hear rumour of a loss, even if real, it's best not to go asking publicly online. Even via direct call to any family member. It may be the unfiltered breaking news to a direct family member who may be far away and unaware. Perhaps the family has been trying to figure out the wisest way to break the news to a specific family member that they may be trying to break the news. Meaning that don't go and be saying, please tell me it's not true. To someone that probably hasn't even heard. I don't know. Go ahead, N.J. So my... That's Chowsom, Kaduna, right? Yes, Chowsom. Sorry. This is Austin from Delta. Austin says it is unfortunate that there is so much insensitivity in our society today. I mean here in Nigeria. Growing up, when people gather to hold a family for loss of a dear one, the gloom on the faces of the people says it all. What you witness is dead silence or talking in low tones. No laughter either. No pictures. I agree with you. There is no time for blaming at this moment of grieving. This is the culture that... Is this the culture of throwing blames that kept somebody... It is this culture of throwing blames that kept somebody in an abusive relationship to stay put. To stay put till the loss of life. Absolutely. Mary, go ahead please. Loss is never easy. People must therefore be sensitive to the needs of victims at that particular time. Hurts people, hurts people. And that is probably why people forget to be sensitive to the pain of others. Learn to listen more and speak less when you do not know what to do or say. Silence in times like this is golden and your presence alone can be more powerful than any of the many words you have to say. Be sensitive to each person's need per time because no two situations are the same. Well done ladies. You all look different. Norma. Alright thank you. Good evening my dear beautiful sisters of what are you saying and happy new month to you beautiful ladies. So sight all do's and don'ts when managing loss. We pray that these don't come when we do not expect them to happen. Amen. Our sister Lydie made mention of the parents passing on first before the children which is which is proper and right. My heart goes out to David at the LKAKA David O over the loss of his dear son. My name is Daniel Illo. You're always a regular fan. Thank you so much Daniel. I mean I think we've been able to keep this conversation within. Same. Yes because it was very important that we understood the crux of why we were having the conversation. This is not to jump on the bandwagon. There are lots of people that are dying by the minute. Right. So when we when we hear things like this first of all let's be sensitive. The people around us you know and let us also understand what we must say and what we must not say per time. You know of course from God we come from him we shall return so says the Lord every soul shall test dead. Well that's what we say but at the same time I want to also start to accept and accommodate the culture of checking what went wrong. We're not saying that it will bring back the life that has been lost. We may be able to prevent. Yes it will prevent future losses and it also helps with closure. For somebody like me if I knew what went wrong I will find closure quicker than if it is vague or she just died. What happened? People are comfortable with she just died. I am not comfortable with she just died. Not because you want to apportion It's not to apportion blame. If I understood that okay this thing went wrong. This is how foundations have been built. Some people now I mean there is a day for loss of infant or is it fetus loss which was celebrated recently in the month of October or the month before October I didn't even know that she had lost a child. You know she had she lost a pregnancy so there is a day for loss of a fetus that is dedicated so people start courses based on that so you know why I am saying this because when you find out it was based on certain kinds of complications and all of that you do a research and you say okay people have created foundations that to ensure that the future losses do not cause we want to just you know say that this is like that practice of you know when they sew up your cervix if people didn't have miscarriages someone would not have researched it to know that there is some women that can't that was do bed rest when they are pregnant and then again very quickly when you said about fetus dying some people insensitivity would think but she never born the baby you can't say that keep your mouth shut at least alright so thank you so much everyone and thank you for respecting the boundaries we were not having this conversation because we want we want to just help people to see better and be a lot more sensitive especially with this age of social media thank you so much Mary NJ and Leide now before we go and show you follow us across all our social media platforms is at Wichu Africa you can interact with us further drop a comment and more importantly follow all our information now if you missed our quote here it is again grief can't be shared everyone carries it alone his own burden in his own way it's so important it is how people mourn differently people grief differently so let's not try to box everybody into a you know a particular style of grief we'll see you guys tomorrow at 8pm bring another great conversation to your screen enjoy