 Hi Larry. How are you? Pretty good. I'm already wired up here so you all can get wired. Hi, you know these are for you as much as for us now I have to Yeah, there. I got myself tangled up. Y'all walked away. I Huh, yeah, these are in case you have any problems as you know like Available For the Monday magazine, which will have a large story on Your new campaign Well, let me because I'm I wish it were Monday instead and so that we're doing this, right? I know the type of things you want to ask and let me just say to you I'm You are going to ask the questions on the assumption that I am so I will answer In the context of your assumption, but I am not going to say those magic words one way or the other Well, I will slightly reword this first question Impossible the first question was when you decided to run and Whether you consulted with many advisors and friends or was it just with mrs. Reagan? Well, I can answer that question of regard as which way the decision would be can't I that when did I make a decision? That I'm going to announce on Sunday night only recently I've held off but Actually held off as long as I could not only in the announcement But in actually approaching the decision and whether to make it because I just felt that There were so many things Going on that I did not want to put myself in a frame of mind where I might be using political considerations or shading my decisions with political considerations I The only person I talked it over with at all was Nancy because we always do everything together and It would be I think impossible for either one of us to Go off on our own make some decision and just tell the other one about it after the fact But she's been a party to all of this and this thinking and yet Even together we have many times and I just said well, we would talk about it later Did you have any reservations when it came to making the decision about not seeking another four years here? Well the decision by waiting No, the decision then the things that I have felt were essential to a decision We're all known factors by then I have always said that the people tell you whether you should or should not seek office and You can't ask them to do that too early. You've got to wait a Considerable time until you can say that you believe you have a reading from the people and So that that is one thing then there there were other considerations considerations for others that Whether you were or were not there were things that had to be gotten underway such as a campaign organization But I felt on that that I could let that go forward without my still having made a decision because There would be such an organization needed to for some candidate in our party and So that organization started without any word from me as to what the answer would be reservations the longing to go back to California or maybe be able to be a private citizen again or Get out from the burden of this office there or was it just a Where there are no reservations like that to your decision well there there would be some mixed emotions about that there's no question about my love for California and the The life that We lead when we're there But in the other hand You speak of the burdens. There's a there's another thing. There's a Desire to see things through To not duck and run just because the the load is heavy so the The private citizen thing I guess some of those things I Had already had that experience for eight years in sacrament with no thought of ever I'm going beyond that that That I I'd had Had to deal with all of those things the private citizen thing and not private citizen before So that wasn't unusual. It was a familiar experience There was a lot of published stuff to the effect that mrs. Reagan was very reluctant to go through another campaign Can you tell us whether in effect? She had you had to persuade her or was this? Liberated mutual consent. No, I think that our thinking kind of tracked together that Yes, you can You can dread something or you and think back to unpleasant features and in the in previous campaigns and Hope against hope that those things won't happen again But No, as I say we We both knew it was a decision that had to be made obviously You're either going to have to say you're going home. You're you're going to try to stay and yet we both had the same feeling that That we didn't talk about it that we didn't think the time had come yet to talk about it and that when the time had come we would We would have all the information that we needed To know in making the decision. Do you remember the date you wrote in your diary? This is it It's all wrapped up I'm so afraid of leaks. I haven't written it in my diary yet All right, it's Sunday night. You have to pre-date it All right, well not ducking out on the burden not cutting and running as you said In a capsule, what would your two or three highest priorities be? in the second term the business you most feel you want to finish oh the economic recovery Which means getting back to a situation in which this government spends within its means that we have a recovery that isn't like the several that we've had since World War two in which we're off on wrong economic policies that get us into trouble and then we artificially stimulate the economy to get out of that particular trouble but lay the foundation for another recession Two or three years down the road so that we've had eight now since World War two No to have what I think we have embarked on and that is well underway and that is a sound economy based on sound principles and To see that through then in the international scene I Think that we've made great progress and I would like to see us continue Until there is a Feeling that we have peace throughout the world That we have reduced the danger that is brought about by the excessive armament In the world that we've actually been able to reduce not just have Agreements that said well, we won't build them as fast as we used to build them Which is what most of the agreements have been up until now But to actually disarm and I would hope Going down that path we could see an end to nuclear weapons that the world would recognize what we tried to achieve in 1946 when we basically were the only ones who had them and yet we couldn't persuade The Soviet Union to go along with the total elimination of those weapons That I am vitally interested in having a relationship with our friends and allies below the borders the southern border that We've touched upon in times past, but we never have really had the kind of partnership and friendly relation That we as nations here in the Western Hemisphere We have so many beliefs in common that it should have and And this as you recall I started very early in the first year that I was here and I Want to carry on with that. I think we've made great progress there But you could sum it all up in a sound economic situation here in our own country With the structural reforms that are needed to put us on the right track peace in the world and With that and maybe we're maybe even bringing it about would be the size of a reduction in weapons Mr.. President turning to the campaign itself The special interest groups in the Democratic Party seem to be galvanized as never before It seems to be as much an anti-regan movement as a pro-mandil Movement for example How do you account for yourself being the lightning rod for so much of this? Well, I think what you're talking about when you say special interest groups organized labor teacher women's groups Well, not all of those some some of all of those, but I think anytime you have a special interest group They see government only from the vantage point of their particular interest without Seeing the the whole picture and how you can reconcile the interests of one with the interests of all the others in this country And so when you set out as we did to try to make government More efficient more economical and solve the great economic problem that had brought us into the depths of that recession a Democratic senator long has described it as he said the the policy is And I don't cut you and don't cut me cut that fellow behind the tree Well, we're all the fellas behind the tree if you look at it and At the same time Since we have elections every two years And since we have a system in this land that is so unique in which you can have a president of one party and have the The opposing party hold a majority and one or both houses of the legislature Then it is politics are made demagoguery is a common practice and Politics are made out of these things in trying to enlist the people now the truth of the matter is many of these suppose special interest people are Crying and they haven't been hurt because We are doing more for The poor and the needy The handicapped and people of this kind and education that has ever been done before We think that in many instances in those programs What those special interests have become is a kind of bureaucracy That is no longer looking at the original goal of benefiting Their clients who needed help They now want to make sure that they will always have those clients So that they in that bureaucracy and the bureaucracy can spread from government to becoming private special interest groups That their own jobs and careers will be safe For example Let me just put it in the round term of welfare Shouldn't the intelligent and moral position of government with regard to welfare be That we must have programs aimed at Getting people free of welfare to where they are self-sufficient and no longer needing government help Granted there will always be some people that through no fault of their own must depend on others for help but Suddenly when you have an organization built up, they don't envision at all Being without those clients because then they look and say where would I be what would I do and So there they see no matter how well-intentioned they are they see all the problems through that distorted glass of Maintaining that clientele where they are They're their excuse for being another campaign related question and the focus is on you, which is that the polls Show that an increasing number of people seem to be worried about that the world is Less safe than it was when you came into office I know and the people are worried that you still might get us into a war somehow How do you account for this attitude toward you personally that still seems to be out there? And maybe even on the rise if we're to believe the polls Well, could I bluntly say that I think that those who for political reasons are Profit by that misperception about me maybe have more access to Media channels than than we do It isn't true we are safer we are stronger and Peace is more assured today Than it has been in recent years There have been four wars in my lifetime We never got into one of them because we were too strong We got into the two major wars because the other people thought we wouldn't fight and that they could do anything to us And they pushed beyond the point in which not out of pride or anything out of sheer necessity When you were attacked as we were attacked with an all-out Military assault you're in a war that was World War two Woodrow Wilson held out for four years in the face of all kind of provocations and assaults upon our rights in World War one and His program was called a program of watchful waiting and then in the second term Believing that nothing could provoke us to defend ourselves They did go too far and we were in World War one Mr.. President you say that your critics on this subject have more access to the media Having covered a number of administrations it seems to me that the president always has maximum access Everything you say can get on the air get in get into print And you have a well-earned reputation of being a very fine communicator Those two facts being as they are I'm just wondering if there aren't other elements in this business of you Being perceived as reckless overseas. I mean after what we do have troops in Lebanon who are Getting some of whom tragically have been killed and you have been much tougher than your immediate predecessor at least in foreign affairs. Isn't that part of it? Well What I was trying to point out earlier was that Not being strong and not even having the means to be strong, which was true of us so many years in the past Then led to Someone taking advantage to the point that whether we wanted it or not. We were in a war Now Would World War two have occurred? If the people of Europe and the people of England had listened to Winston Churchill instead of ignoring him Until it was too late and then they turned to him as the man to help them out of their dilemma of Would World War two have happened if the opposition to Franklin Delano Roosevelt's desire to enhance our armed strength Had he been heeded with all the things that he was able to accomplish with the legislature that was in both houses was of his party He was never given the armament that he asked for Had we been capably armed? Would Pearl Harbor ever have happened? We've been told since that war by men on the opposite side leaders in the up on Among our opponents. We've been told since that it was precisely because they saw us not arming and Not prepared that they thought they could do that Now when I say access to the media Larry. Yes, a president can but also Lyndon Johnson once expressed it when a particular senator was And of his own party was belittling him and attacking him constantly and Lyndon said anyone Can get themselves in the news and the press if they attack the president and it's true now you say Flattering remark about communicator. I've watched the news sometimes on the air on Addresses that I've made and yes, they show me coming into the hall and they show me up there speaking Maybe one sentence allowed is on sound but then I See myself Silently speaking while some commentator goes on for 40 seconds Telling the people what he says I said They don't let the people hear what I said Well, I suppose anyone would feel it it's only full and fair if they said if they quoted everything that you said but And no one I wouldn't and I don't mean to go that that far and I wouldn't wouldn't say that but what I do believe is that The The drumbeat as we said before like the special interest groups, so suddenly a Large segment of the population is convinced that I I'm a warmonger I campaigned on the basis of exactly what I'm trying to do and that is Arms reduction to get the powers of the world together and Reduce the number of weapons in the world not set a limit on how many more we can build which is what most of the agreements set out to do Reduce them and I have made it plain here in abroad and I said it to the diet and speaking to them in Japan I My goal in my dreams is The total elimination of nuclear weapons A couple things we felt were really essential I have a couple questions on your management style here in the office One is that Some observers say that you delegate So much to the staff sometimes that you're not fully aware of maybe as much as you should be here and one example of that seems to be the The original order you signed to apply lie detectors to what would have been your secretary of state and other members of the NSC and when that was pointed out to you you change that order, so it wouldn't necessarily direct a polygraph to those people And looking back at that example Do you have a sense sometimes that you you're not as always a fully aware? No, I'm aware that there may be some details many times that I don't think you can be aware of it Anyone who tries to be is not going to be able to do this job, but the very thing that you mentioned there here again the We were all convinced that the violation of the particular meeting the secrecy of that meeting Which had to do with national security That that was a criminal violation and therefore when I asked for an investigation By the FBI that would have been a criminal and was a criminal investigation under a criminal investigation The use of the polygraph is permissible To the law enforcement authorities without my saying yes or no to it as They progressed with and without ever using the polygraph as they progressed with the investigation they themselves came to me and The investigators and said they did not believe That it could be considered a criminal investigation that our first supposition That the national security had been violated Was not substantiated so therefore there was no question of anyone using the polygraph and Unless they had said that I could unless I wanted to order it but you did originally no I ordered it only on the basis that was part of a criminal investigation and then this one If we're talking about the same investigation and when they came back to me on that well I said well no then I won't order that if this is not a criminal investigation Well, how about the example of I believe there's a meeting with senator nun and Cohen over the build-down question to be incorporated in the start and you mentioned to them that and This was last fall and you mentioned that you had only recently realized how that the Soviet Strategic forces were heavily dependent on heavy land-based missiles and that therefore for no wonder The Soviets would have looked at your original start proposal as being lopsided or maybe unfair How how is it that three years into your administration you would just come to that? Well of information that was not a basic fundamental that was not me alone And that was all of our negotiators in in discussing this we'd come to the conclusion that the destabilizing weapon the thing that has if there's going to be nightmares for our children that have them Are those missiles that you push the button those land-based missiles and they take off in 20 30 minutes later the world blows up and Therefore we know that both sides have got bombs that airplanes can drop. We know they've got missiles and submarines and we have to What we emphasized were those others Because they were the ones push the button and that's it no calling them back there's less terror of The conventional craft Carrying these missiles the submarine that must travel out there and can be intercepted The airplane that can be intercepted that we're used to airplanes that dropped explosive bombs But to can now drop nuclear weapons. They can also be called back If there is some reason to call them back So we said that really destabilizing ones the ones that we should reduce the threat are these land-based and None of us until the Soviets brought it up Because they're building all these other things too. In fact, they have been building submarines faster than we have None of us thought that they would introduce it never occurred to us a Charge that we were trying to dictate their mix of weapons and therefore their strategy and When we looked at it and we did and we realized where we're placing ours in what we call a triad submarine air-based land-based So that an enemy in trying to have a deterrent to us or an enemy threatening us must have to be able to plan For knocking out three systems, not just one They in the other hand have based their greatest reliance on the land-based and They brought this up and when they brought that up issue up I've looked when it was brought back that they had brought this up and said well No, it never had occurred to to any of us We we always expected that you were we were going to negotiate all three systems, but we were going to start And we made a plane at the start that we were starting to talk about the land-based But then we'd move on to phase two and three with the with the others The Soviets did not take to that took this position that there They had the greater number on land and this was a tactic of theirs And we were trying to change as I say their strategy and I said well Then let's let's change if that's the way they want to do it Then we're not trying to change their strategy But was it a staff failing or your misunderstanding in the first place you didn't know I don't that information had been out there even years before you came in that they were heavily dependent on it It had never really been it never really been pointed up all we knew was that you know It's harder to know how many bombs they're making they've continued to make more airplanes than we have They continue to have more bombers than we have And we know they were building submarines faster than we were so it never occurred to us That just the fact that they were further ahead In their strategic land-based weapons than they were in these other Phases that this was a Planned strategy that they intended to hold to and I'm maybe it Still isn't because they're still building those other things as fast as they can So when they made that an issue Well, then we immediately proved that we were flexible We said well if that's an issue that in other words, they do not want to take The land-based as the first negotiating position and then the others later Okay, then we'll we'll take them all up. We'll take the total number of weapons up and negotiate on that basis No, I don't think that was a case of lacking A knowledge of details. I don't think that I never heard anyone Of our negotiators or any of our military people or anyone else bring up that particular point Maybe we should wind us up on a philosophical note or reflective note as you Could I before you get into it though, could I go back to your previous question previous to this one? On the matter you mentioned Lebanon and our marines in Lebanon and keeping with your question on Whether I'm warlike or using force more Remember that the multinational force was there At the request of the government of Lebanon As an aid in peacemaking it was a part Of our overall peace proposal for the middle east where we hope that we could bring The arab states and israel together to do as egypt and israel had done and continue the camp david peace process and The roof blew off in lebanon with The israelis crossing the border admittedly in their own defense because of the Terrorist attacks that had been made across their borders their northern border with the syrians also in there with the rival factions internally that had been fighting a kind of civil war within the country for several years And this was all aimed at getting the foreign forces to withdraw And standing by while lebanon, which hadn't really had a government for several years Reinstated its sovereignty and its ability to protect itself And so we were part of a multinational force that was there not for combat purposes But to offer some stability and for the better part of a year practically a year This this is what it was and how it worked And it was only as they began to make progress Scheduled meetings in geneviance of what last august That the terrorist attacks began against the multinational force they can force us to Withdraw from what we think is a legitimate peacemaking function So now go ahead with your next question as you contemplate Certainly the strong possibility of another five years Here counting the last year of this term What are your reflections about the job? What does it do to you as a man? Is there a danger of being cut off in the real world? If you had a magic time machine that you could go back for a few decades Is there anything different you would do to prepare yourself for this job? Well, there might be something of that kind that Because believe me I never in my wildest dreams ever aspired to public service I loved the world that I was in the the entertainment world I did always believe that you had to pay your way So the very fact that I'd been blessed with some success and Could attract an audience and so forth I thought that It was only right that I should use that and be half of causes that I believed in so I used to campaign for others But I never never entered my mind that I wanted to hold public office I didn't want want to matter of fact, I was the most reluctant candidate in the world When finally I was persuaded to seek the governorship and and did I have to say however that after it happened and Nancy and I were both very reluctant Thought that we were going into a life that we would not like at all We found After several months that it was probably the most fulfilling And exciting thing we'd we'd ever done so I don't know what what I could have done or would have done differently in fact, I'm not sure that People really do plan or should plan to go into Public office, maybe it's better to Simply achieve something and what you're doing out there and your neighbors tell you whether you should Serve them my way of public office Has the experience changed any of your views that you held when you came in As you as you watch the world work now from this perspective? No, not really because of that eight years as governor of the largest state in the union I think there there in other words, there weren't too many surprises here there were some but they were They weren't the kind of surprise of of having to change your thinking or anything. They were surprises of some of the requirements Such as finding that you can't go a half an hour away from the White House Like saying going out for an evening or something without having A phone system established so that you were still wherever you are or in instant communications if need be With the world that was hard to get used to and you Hard to get used to that Like a state of the union address that there is If there is believed to be a security threat to a place where you are And other members of the government are going to be there Including those people who were in the line of succession if anything happens to you That one of the line of succession Must not go and attend That meeting No, sam was out of the country. So he didn't count there had to be another cabinet member I don't know whether we're i'm supposed to tell which one didn't go but Just say let me just say one cabinet member was notified that he was here in the city. He could not attend the that particular affair How about on foreign policy though the the governorship really didn't prepare you so much for for that Where have there been things that have happened there that have changed your views? Well Let me let me just put on that and foreign foreign policy No, you don't have a foreign policy as a governor And yet you find yourself if it's a state like california There on the rim of the pacific You find that you do have Much more contact uh With foreign government just because of of the interest of your own state For example california If it were a nation would be the Well when i was governor it was the seventh some have said now that has changed it would be the eighth Would be the seventh ranking at that time would have been the seventh ranking economic power in the world We are are the Exit an entrance point for a tremendous percentage of all of our world commerce So you were a little exposed to foreign relations But beyond that myself personally I'd been on the mashed potato circuit Since I didn't sing or dance when anyone asked me to make a personal appearance in the business that I was in before It was to be a speaker and I always I never made a canned speech. I always thought that I'd wanted to speak and things that interested me And I was interested in foreign affairs And as a matter of fact at one time running for governor the first time Uh, there were some members of your trade Who wrote that if I didn't stop talking about world affairs, uh I couldn't be elected governor that uh, I should begin interesting myself and the domestic problems of the state I thought it was a little unfair. I wasn't talking that much about it But it was true that my interests were in that that line and uh so That wasn't so much of a shock or a switch when I got here. It was I did find I had underestimated how much of your time Would be devoted to that My main interest was in and Trying to get the economy going again and so forth and uh I have been surprised by the extent to which Your day every day is involved with world affairs but you I mean you'd ask something else there just before about I have asked What it does to you as a man and do you feel there's a danger of being cut off in the real world? No that I wanted to answer because I know there are many people that say that and try to portray the presidency as that you're isolated in such a way that you You don't have any contact with human beings and you don't know what people are thinking about. I have never felt that once First of all, I see an awful lot of my mail but all The previous years before getting here. I still know all those people And I don't mean just close friends, but the kids I went to school with the people in my hometown The people I knew in hollywood, and I don't just mean movie stars. I mean the People in the studio of the crews the fellows that you worked with You I still feel a contact with all of them, but also there's another thing in this job You're surrounded by people And not just cabinet members or ambassadors You're you're surrounded with all the people that work here the people that Do the things in the White House with the the security people and all you get to know them You get to know about their families and what their problems are too and then of course No matter what security does and granted that you can't ride in an open car anymore Or go down and walk out into a strange and unchecked crowd But you still have a contact When you go any place to to speak like yesterday in Atlanta, you still meet Number of those people and they're pretty representative of the whole group and I have never I've never felt Uh That estrangement what you do feel is a personal loss You find yourself remembering what it was like when on the spur of the moment you could just uh Yell to your wife that you were going down to the drugstore and get a magazine and uh, and you can't do that anymore Things of that kind I've often told I've made up a joke and told about that The first week after I left the governor's office and I've Told it as if it were true. I've said that Nancy and I And we were going out one evening And we went out and both of us got in the back seat of the car and waited for somebody to drive us Mr. Perlman, thank you. All right. We appreciate it. Okay. You bet There