 Yeah, welcome back to Think Tech here at the 11 o'clock block on a given Thursday. And welcome back more specifically to Coronaville, what's next, and it's revealing itself in the future, but also in the past. And we were talking before the show, and our guests as usual are Tim Appichella, Stephanie Dalton, Cynthia Sinclair, Winston Welch. Before the show, we were talking about what happens if we have a designated viewer among us who goes and watches Fox News every week and comes back and reports to us. And Cynthia pointed out that after 10 minutes, you can't do it anymore because you get the lies within the 10 minutes and the absurd statements. But I was pointing out that after 10 minutes, what happens is your brain turns into gelatinous mass. And it's not healthy, especially these days. So we may or may not do that. But Tim, let's talk to you first. And this has been remarkable, not in the sense of going forward, but in the sense of going backward, because it's coming out. All these people are coming out with revelations about what happened with Trump in the White House. And, you know, it goes back to March and April. You and I did a show. We used the word hoax in the title of the show. We have hundreds and hundreds, thousands of hits already on that show. And what was happening at the time was that he was at the podium and he was saying, we have to reopen, reopen, reopen, all you people should love me reopen, okay, but he wasn't doing anything. And now we have different views of what was going on in the White House and it's all coming out. So I guess the first question I put to you, Tim, is what's coming out these days because it is shocking. Well, thank you, Jay. I'm going to give you my best answer because my mind, as of this morning, because I did watch Fox, is a gelatinous mess. So the answer I give will be the best I can give. Number one is, you know, we have this senior advisor from HHS, Paul Alexander, and this scathing email that it's okay to infect infants and children and young adults and middle-aged adults. And it's the goal to have them become infected so that we could have this herd immunity concept. That reflects a whole lot on the attitude of Donald Trump and the administration and the task force on how they didn't deal with the virus. And that is, let's do nothing, but let's pretend and make it look like we're doing something. And here we are, 307,000 deaths due to COVID. And again, by the administration's inaction, we have 307,000 deaths. And I think this email is very telling. And I think we're going to see a lot more emails in the coming months. Really illuminating Donald Trump's thinking, Scott Atlas's thinking, and senior advisors that we're pointing in this direction of do nothing because we don't want to damage the Dow. We don't want to damage the NASDAQ and the standards and poor. We want the economy to be vibrant so that when Donald Trump comes up to election time, he'll succeed. And he almost did. A lot of people still believe it's a hoax. It's a question of messaging. Messaging Uberalis, as they say. The other thing they say is, Marie Antoinette was famous for saying, let them eat cake. Let them get virus. It's OK. It's them, not us. So Cynthia, I think one of the issues here is there doesn't seem to be any active policy or plan from the beginning of COVID till now. Not everybody in the country believes that. Some people have this vague notion that, in fact, he's been effective. But do you see anything that he has done? I mean, his task force fell apart. And then he was speaking alone from the podium day after day, reporting on really nothing, taking no steps, and only doing what Tim was talking about, trying to appeal to the country, to the base, about how well his government was doing in other regards, like in the stock market. But has he done anything? I mean, how do you characterize the work of this administration from the beginning till now in this department? Selfish and lazy would be the first two words that come to mind. The lazy approach is don't do anything and call it herd immunity. How convenient, right? You don't actually have to do anything then. And that's no good either. So that's the lazy part. And then the selfish part is like you said, only doing things that helped his base or his brand, so to speak. It seems like everything he has done is to help the Trump brand. And anything that takes away from that is no good. And he doesn't put any effort into at all. Well, what's interesting is that now, in the transition, now when he's a short timer and we have 300,000 plus people died already and, you know, thousands a day die, he doesn't comment on it. What does this reveal? And instead he's busy chasing Hunter Biden around. What does this reveal about him? And is it consistent? Is it revealed something we didn't know before? I don't think so. I think that people with their eyes open knew before he even got elected, which is why so many of us were absolutely terrified when he won. And we were terrified about this very thing happening that has happened, the corruption, the lack of caring about anyone but himself, which is what happens when you deal with an extreme narcissist like we're dealing with. If you give them credit for the vaccines, do you give them credit for the logistics around the vaccines? None. None at all. Zero. I really, and I'm almost at a loss for words. When I heard somebody saying, you're never at a loss for words. Actually, that's kind of true, but it is, if it makes me at a loss for words and you know, it must be big. When someone wanted to call this the Trump vaccine, I almost fell off my chair. I was, I was just like, usually I'm up yelling and screaming at the television when these outrageous things happen. This time I literally had no words. I just could hardly speak. I, how outrageous is that? Any kind of credit at all to this man is just unconscionable. So, so, you know, we've covered it. And, you know, the liberal media has covered it, the times and MSNBC and CNN, Stephanie, and, and it's really a terrible story. And there's no other way to characterize it. And yet as the biggest story, clearly the biggest story in the country, the biggest story top headline every single day, how many people are dying? I mean, it's awful. Is it affecting, is it affecting the base? And if it is not affecting the base, what process is going on among the base that they could ignore it? Well, I thought that my, my big response of depression and more disappointment and disbelief was when I found out that actually Trump did have the COVID, but he had one of the treatments of which there are like two and a half. Now having been given to him and Giuliani and to the New Jersey governor. And that those are those that I don't, the name of the drug cocktail begins with an R. Okay. Very few of those are available and they're $100,000. Okay. So that was where I got, I was in a slump all day walking around thinking of all of the hundreds of thousands of people that did not have access to that, would not have access to that and can't go for, go forward with it. Who's got the hundred K for that? But, and is there enough and there's not enough. So that made me realize this is even, more deeply evil and he's more deeply. Disturbed and fractured human. Well, but it's heating up. It's heating up like Tim was saying, more is coming out now. You know, about exactly how, how, how insensitive and evil. He has been, you know, through, through the whole pandemic. Increasingly till now. And the question is this, this is coming out as occupying more geography in the newspapers and on television. Is this affecting his base at all this revelation? Well, I'm thinking maybe not because he's modeling the narcissistic syndrome. And that means no empathy whatsoever for anybody else's situation. So somehow, you know, the basis like that. I don't know that it's got that psychopathy, but the base is not concerned either because it was okay with them. If all the old people die. Because the base itself is dying though. Yeah. You'd think that somebody. Yeah. Let's find out if that is ever going to have an impact on them. But it's always, it's going to happen to the other guy. So the base is important part of America. It's a lot of young people on there. Immortal. People have immortal attitudes. And I think that's the immaturity of Trump also is he still thinks he's immortal. That's what's going on along with the narcissism in the way. Really. Interesting. He thinks he's immortal, but we know that he's not immortal. And if he thinks he's going to live on through 2024, the way he lives. That's not such a surefire thing. So Winston, you know, fact is that with all this talk about the vaccine, a lot of talk about the vaccine, you know, every day they come on and they show you. Because the people are getting vaccines, big guys, little guys, everybody getting vaccines and all the, you know, the implications of that, including, by the way, this, this fellow yesterday who had some kind of a little bit of allergic reaction. I don't know if you caught that. And that was bad. But, you know, when you take it in, in light of, you know, millions of Americans who could be, will be ultimately saved. It doesn't really bother me much. But let me, let me ask you this though. Trump is not now. Now he's doing nothing. Okay. He hasn't been doing anything. The numbers are really high. Biden is not the president. I think we have to be clear about that. He can talk about it, but he really can't do anything about it. He doesn't control anything. It's not clear that he will control a whole lot in the Senate. That, that has to be decided. So, you know, how do you feel about the vaccine? As opposed to the fact that the numbers are, you know, you know, you know, how do you feel about the vaccine as opposed to the fact that the numbers every day, every day in every way are still spiking enough to shake your eyeballs. You know, when are we going to be out of the woods because the vaccine is not going to have an immediate effect even at best. And right now it's having, you know, in the pandemic, very little effect. No effect. Well, you know, it's a go back again basically to personal responsibility. Don't go out if you don't have to. When you go out, you wear a mask, you wash your hands, you don't touch your head. Actually, I was excited when Cynthia was talking about a Trump vaccine. I thought, could we be inoculated against this family where we just get this shot and then we're not affected by them anymore? Like this is a great idea. It's not you Winston. We have to give that shot to the base. Run tears of science. You know, it's, it is in many ways as, you know, we talked about in a previous show that this, this frenzy, politics of grievance, all of that. It is an infectious disease and it explains a lot towards modeling just as the, as a battered wife syndrome. Also it has some parallels here to what America is going through right now and trying to get out of this relationship. While there's a apologize on the other side, you know, like, oh, my little Johnny would never hit you type of the parents or the people explaining your way. I think there's some really good parallels there. So if that Trump vaccine comes out, that's a great idea. But in the meantime, let's just go with the COVID vaccine. We got about 50,000 doses here this month in Hawaii. It's good for 25,000 people. We're getting 100,000 next month. Good for 50,000 people from my, yeah, but it's a vaccine. If you get sick, if you test positive, it doesn't have a whole lot of effect. No, but we are, we're starting at the, with the most vulnerable, those are who are in institutions. Hopefully they'll, I mean, we had a huge outbreak in the prison. Those people are, those are wards of the state. And so people that are there and the people that take care of them, whether it's an old folks home or children's home or whatever that, that's a priority as our first responders. And there's a whole bunch of people who need to get this right away. We're not, you asked about when is this going to be done. Dr. Fauci says, don't plan on, don't plan on fourth of July gatherings. He said, maybe next Christmas we'll have normal holidays, but I think he's just trying to steal us a little bit. But the numbers that are scary are the ones that say 40%, even here in Hawaii, it was something 45% of the people aren't sure that they'd get the vaccine. So there's a huge amount of education that needs to be done. You talked about Joe Biden not being the president. He is the president. He's the president elect. He is providing a role model in what he says, what he does simply appearing in public with his mask. As opposed to the state department yesterday, Mike Pompeo's in quarantine. He was going to have a party for 900 people. Most of them wisely didn't show up. We're in a hopeful moment right now. In the meantime, you know, like the Atlantic says, is it safe to hold a holiday party? No, stay home. Enjoy Christmas so that you can enjoy a lot more Christmases in the future's birthdays and verses. I like the idea of maybe by July 4th, it'll be liberation day and we can celebrate all the Christmases, bar mitzvahs, anniversaries, birthdays, everything on that day that we've been holding up for so long. But right now we're still right in the thick of it. It's getting a lot worse. The news out of California is horrendous. Field hospitals everywhere. I, we're not out of it at all yet, but there are signs for definite hope. Well, you know, Tim, you know, we got people out there who are opposing, you know, it goes back to the hoax thing. My favorite story of the week is the mayor of Dodge City, Kansas. We talked a little about that yesterday in your show. She quit. She was on the tube last night explaining why it's really gruesome. You get threats to do what essentially other counties and the state is doing in that state of Kansas. And yet, you know, she was being threatened for it. We have people out there who would threaten her, lots of them, and some who would even carry those threats out. How are we going to clean that up? We're not going to clean it up during Trump. That's for sure. He's never going to relent. He's never going to say, don't do that. He's never going to say that. But Biden, Biden is, you know, on the cusp here. What can Biden do to change the tone of the country, to make what Winston wants to happen happen? I think it's going to be done. Yes, the leadership will take place on a national level. But, you know, like politics, everything is local. And so it's going to have to be the law enforcement agencies of each state and each city and each, you know, township that's going to have to enforce, you know, to make sure violence doesn't happen openly in the streets of America. And I'm hoping that it won't come to that. You know, we saw this incident in Washington, D.C., where there was shootings and several stabbings. I'm hoping that's an isolated, isolated incident. And I'm hoping that the passion and the, and the, and the temperature from this lost election for Donald Trump starts to come down. That over time they realize, okay, he is not going to be our second term president. And they move on to other grievances. You mentioned the anti-vaxxers. I think those who are, you know, denied that Trump lost the election, these are perfect candidates for those who are going to deny the vaccine and not participate. And, you know, if you think about it, if you never agreed that COVID was a real disease in the first place, why on earth would you take the vaccine? So I think by Donald Trump's and the administration's broadcast on how this was just nothing but a Democratic hoax or a bad flu, that stuck. And that hasn't left their mentality and their attitudes. And therefore, when it comes to the time to take the vaccine, they're going to say, no, we're not going to do it. It's, it's the deep state that wants me to take this vaccine and I'm not going to do it. Well, this is also a trust question. It's an interesting point raised yesterday in one of my TV shows. It was not Fox News where, you know, Trump has said, you know, warp speed, because he does nothing, but he uses the term as part of this messaging warp speed. And some people, maybe on the margins of the base, take that to mean, wait a minute, that's too fast that they can't trust a vaccine that is, that is being built at warp speed. And therefore they're, they're concerned about it. I mean, I don't want to say legitimately concerned. That that's in play right now, but they're concerned that it happened too fast and therefore they don't have confidence in it. So it's not only, you know, that he hasn't done anything, not only that he's turned the whole thing around to be political, but that he's suggesting to people that it may not be effective because it happened so fast. Your thoughts on that? Yeah, well, we're starting to hear doctors and research doctors saying that the basis for this vaccine really has been in the works for years through research and development. It's just never have come to the front of the table. We're now hearing those stories and I think is to address your very point that it was developed rather quickly. And I think that's part of the strategy, the messaging strategy that we've known about how to, you know, attack that one protein that has the spikes on it and introduce this non benign, if you will, a solution to, to arresting COVID. And I think that's what they're going to push harder and harder and more often about why the vaccine is actually safer than what one might think. Yeah, and that's what Biden should do. He should continue a campaign of informing the public and all that to rebuild trust, trust in the vaccine. Well, and it's not, it's not make believe it's, you know, this, this is the actual facts that this has been researched for years. So it's just bringing the truth to the table versus our administration, the current administration of making things up out of thin air. Let's, let's talk about Stephanie, let's talk about the CDC. You know, let's talk about public information. Let's talk about candor transparency accuracy and all that I mean, I remember when Kelly and Conway was campaigning for him. This is before he was elected. He had this fantastic ability to lie about everything. And so what you know what kind of a candidate, you know, would you would you vote for a person who has a spokesman that lies on everything straight face lies. And he did a lot of lying but then he tries to make other people lie. And I think one of the things that came out here this week is his manipulation of the CDC. And how, and how Trump was changing their reports. It was hiding information. They call it a slow relentless suffocation or the words that effect of what you say Cynthia you had something on this suffocation. Okay, but this is the one that what I want to get to is is the thing in Florida with the Santas there, the Santos the governor. And there was a woman by the name of Rebecca. Wait, I'll tell you. Yeah, Rebecca Jones, who was in charge of keeping COVID records health records in the State Department of Health and she revealed that things weren't going so well in Florida. And so, so the Republican establishment, namely the Santos went after her and she quit. And, and then ultimately a couple days ago, they essentially broke into her house with guns drawn and terrified her family, including her kids with guns drawn. And they took all her stuff out there I don't know if there's a search warrant but it was a phony search warrant if there was. What's about this is the governor of the state and the state police of the state. And, and here we are. You know in December, just 3534 days before the end of Trump's administration, and this is happening. It sounds like DeSantis is this vile and snaky. And, you know, as that Alexander report reveals the presidential policy was, because he was changing. And that's what she has revealed she wouldn't go along with that she didn't put data up as directed. And then it's revealing that all of the data in Florida was not correct. So they weren't releasing the real numbers. So, this is what we're hearing about now as you said Jake early we're just going to have this content or to this roll out of the horror stories of what's going on behind the scenes and how truly evil and dark. This is in the service of Trump's presidential bid. So, I mean it is just really sick mean I mean that's the experience I'm having of it now. And I, I think we're just going to have to endure it but I think it will eventually rebound to him and and and take down, take him down with it. I just, I don't see that it can go any other way eventually I mean it'll take time to. The other thing is that with the CDC and the NIH all I'm coming from the grant world the discretionary grant world. All of those, all of that work is federally funded, or at least partially because that's where the big bucks are for research, who's funding research being getting Gates Foundation or Spencer or something good, but you've got to go to the to get the box to do the kind of stuff that people were able to do as soon as the virus became into anybody's head. I mean they'd already been working on that, although it's concepts those constructs those theories and how to get to an RNA kind of, you know, code to change, you know, the, the chromosomes and the gene information so they'd already been working on that for sure I mean they didn't start from scratch. They already had some work going, but my question is, in response to your question about the CDC is how the facts how president came in and could get in the way of people with all this bed these grant regulations I mean you can't change your stuff on a grant, but then that says to me back it up because whoever was giving them the grant, then they had to back down from hat from meeting the standards so that's how deeply I think, you know, Trump got into these agencies, so that, you know, the person doing the work out front looks like they're not doing it right but they're directed by the people who are regulating them and they're told by the president to knock it down or do it differently. So that's why their institutions are weakened, they're weak and hollowed out. So Cynthia you know another example of this is this woman I think her name is Troy, and she was on the task force under Pence, she's a senior White House official and she was an official on the task force. And she's been making, you know, press appearances over the past few weeks, talking about the, you know, the bizarre things that happened on the task force. And this himself he did nothing. And the task force had all these weird atlas like people in it. And I think this is going to happen more and more it's going to quicken in the next few weeks, maybe with due regard for the election in Georgia, but also as Trump loses power or apparently has to give up power as the time of the inauguration. Don't you think there'll be more coming out of the woodwork. Don't you think that we're going to find out just exactly what was happening because people will not be intimidated by a president who no longer has the power to intimidate the bureaucracy. What do you think. I think that's going to happen. I think it's not going to dribble out. I think it's going to come in a big flood. And once one person starts another person will be empowered and emboldened to do the same. And so I think over these few months we're just going to see more and more and more. And we're going to find out more and more about actual data that's been changed and manipulated to look like something different. I think it seems like now we're starting to get a little bit more of the correct information. We have 3298 people die yesterday. That's like a person every minute or so isn't it. It's just insanity. Now, as soon as the numbers started going up in Florida, that's when all the manipulation of their numbers started. And even with this is the thing that gets me even with all of the, you know, the manipulation that they did, they still Florida is one of the highest states for the most, you know, highest numbers of infection and deaths also, they're way up there at the top. So you can imagine how bad it really is. If it's this bad with the manipulated numbers. What does that mean it really is. Well, yes, and he's had so many places on the information pipeline. You know to do that where he's actually done I, I'm only hoping that this will come out more and more now before the election in Georgia. And, and hopefully the people in Georgia will see although the news in Georgia is pretty good. The last thing I saw was that it's probable that the Democrats had more votes. What were you saying. There came out with some new stuff against the Purdue guy, and they're starting to come out with more. And hopefully they're doing they're just flooding the airwaves down in, in Georgia about what Kelly Loeffler did. In regards to the insider trading, both of them. Purdue did the same thing. So and then they also have just released some stuff about Kelly Loeffler and how she downgraded her home from it's like she bought up for 10 million. And then all of a sudden, it's still you know the same the same the same, then all of a sudden it drops 6000 I mean $6 million. So that her taxes were about $200,000 less, you know, and then it dropped again and again and again. And there's absolutely no reason for it to have dropped. There was no, you know, she she and her husband are ostensibly worth $800 million. It's not it's not like they're coming folk. Let me let me shift to you Winston. You know one of the things that is that has happened here that is totally remarkable is the fact that we have not had a COVID relief bill. And in May the Democrats came up with a what two point something trillion dollar bill to follow the first bill. And that has languished all this time. Let me count the months may, June, July, August, September, October, November, December. And it has languished all this time without a farthing to help the, you know, the people on the street. There are those who say that this has caused live caused us lives that some at least some of the people who have died the enormous number of people have died have died for the lack of help from the federal government. What are your thoughts about that and what are your thoughts about what's really happening. These negotiations. Why do we have this painful, cruel delay. Well, Mitch McConnell still in charge of the Senate. And that's number one. In my books Donald Trump, I thought he was fine to pass this bill it's going to be interesting because he said he's going to veto the defense spending bill, forcing the Republicans to override his veto which they probably will. I wonder if they'll wait until after the sixth of January to do so but they need the money right now as far as I know but that was, you know, has confederate free gaming of things. Look, it's it's a very confusing horse trading that goes on in there and Nancy Pelosi. She's trying the hardest she can and she's got, but this thing is a disaster. There's no two ways about it. Does it matter to America if we borrowed 20 mil 20 trillion or 21 trillion or 22 trillion does 10% more matter in the long run, especially with the Republicans who have absolutely run up enormous deficits under Donald Trump's they cannot claim a shred of fiscal accruedance when you're talking about this so it's other things it was, I think, I'm not sure why it hasn't happened. It's not right. There's no relief for the cities or the states in this bill. You're forcing really untenable choices and all across the land, hopefully when Biden comes in they will open the taps up again, especially if they get the 50 seats that we need. Is it already appointed, you know, Pete Buttigieg for transportation secretary and a Native American lady in charge of Department of Interior he's making all the right moves of putting people that are going to change the tone and tenor of our federal government which has been a wall or just totally negligent in the duties. It's all changing. And so we have to just hold on for a few more weeks until this till the storm passes and then we'll see what happens but right now. Nothing's, it's all up for grabs as far as I can tell it for next three or four weeks so don't hold your breath about anything because. Well, we will hold our breath in the sense that we don't have a show until the first week in January so the predictions we make here, you know, would be pretty good. The young ins I wanted to let them know a farthing was an ancient unit of currency. So when you say no not even a farthing was given. That's what we're talking about not one red cent. We have to hold these months and it is a disgrace whether it's a cent, a dollar, a George marker. It is amazing. But Tim, you know, I wanted to ask you something and I wanted to ask you for a prediction and closing here. So Mitch McConnell he has really been an evil person. largely if not exclusively responsible for the failure of the impeachment the failure of the Mueller investigation and the failure of COVID relief over the past how many months. But now he seems to be turning away from Trump. Why is he doing that. And is he working under under under foot in Georgia somehow to pull it out the way he pulled it out for himself in Kentucky to somehow stay in power. And in Georgia somehow continue to control the majority of the Senate. Where is he, is he breaking away, or is he working to continue his power. Is he going to negotiate and collaborate with Biden or is it all an evil ruse. The answer was embedded in your question, and that is, he realizes that the Democrat, excuse me the Republican Party is split. And those that are Trumpians are actually speaking against voting in in in Georgia. He realizes he needs every GOP vote he can muster so he has to split from the Trump, the Trump way of thinking. And if he doesn't, the Senate will go the Democrats and Mitch McConnell will be out. And he knows that he's he's a smart guy actually, he is, you know, cause so much gridlock not only in this administration, but he's caused gridlock in the Obama administration ever since the vote in Massachusetts went after Senator Kennedy died. He's the one running this country and deturning the agenda of this country, and he'd like to continue to do that. So the answer is, yes, he has broken from Trump. He realized that Trump will have some popular power. But as you said in previous shows, the bully pulpit is his main basis of power, and he won't have that any longer so I think Mitch McConnell is taking full advantage of that. Do you think Mitch McConnell is going to change and be negotiating partner with Biden and the Biden administration. I think he'll come around and there'll be a lot more policy decisions that will be bipartisan. I think the infrastructure bill will be a huge bipartisan effort. There'll be immigration reform but not to the extreme position that the Trump administration have put forward. And all sorts of different avenues where bipartisanship will will be actually put in play. Hope so, hope so. Well, thank you Tim. Thank you Stephanie. Thank you Cynthia. Thank you Winston. Great discussion. You guys have a nice Christmas and hopefully a happier new year. I'll see you in the first week of January. In the meantime, keep reading, watching and be ready for catch up and update when we meet again. Thanks so much.