 It must be. We are going to try to get it right. Dave is on his way. He's probably caught in traffic. After comedy to be. I took him. Exactly. Okay. Are we ready? This is on. Yeah. Okay. Ready? All right. I'm going to order the South Burlington City Council meeting of Monday, July 15th, 2019. And the first order of business is to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance. Kevin. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Thank you. Megan, you might want to mute your phone. Thank you. All right. Instructions on exiting the building in case of an emergency. In case we have an emergency tonight and have to exit immediately, please go out one of these two side doors here, proceed out through the parking lot and gather at the parking lot around the side of the next building to the south. If these doors are somehow blocked, please go out one of the two here into the main lobby out the sidewalk and gather at the same place on the south side of the building to our south. Leave immediately. Tom and I, Tom Hubbard and I will make sure that the building is cleared. Okay. Thank you. Our third item is really recognition and remembrance of the former city manager and the city engineer, Bill Samanski. He died last week, two weeks ago. I'm sure you probably all read the lovely obituary and article in the other paper. He clearly was an incredible member of this community and we remember him by a park being named after him, but we remember him for just incredible service and love of this community and he really made an enormous, enormous difference. Do you have any? Tom had some comments. Oh, thank you. Tom worked with Bill and had some thoughts. Yeah, I did. Thanks, Kevin. I think first off, I want to recognize Matty and Lee for the great job in the other paper because it told a good story and it really got me thinking a little bit back in my recreation days when we dedicated Samanski Park to him. They knew who Bill was and a lot more know who Bill was through reading the paper. But I was thinking when people go down to Samanski Park now and they see the sign, you know, Samanski Park, they may or may not know who Bill was. And it got me thinking that maybe we should put a plaque down there with a photo of him and maybe of what the property looked like before when Bill was doing all the negotiating that he needed to do to get us that parcel and what it looks like now and to tell a little bit of a story about who our first city manager was because it was during Bill's term that we became a city and incorporated our city charter with the state and just talk about some of the major accomplishments that he had so that people are more familiar and maybe place it along the walkway as you go up into Samanski Park. I'm sure if I worked with Holly and some of the rec folks that we could maybe plan that as an unveiling and have some specific activities down at the park that day that would attract a good crowd for us. So that was the thought that I had. Let's make it happen. I think that's a really wonderful idea and certainly in keeping with the amount of energy and time and commitment and leadership that he showed this community or gave this community. Great. So that would be great. Super. So agenda item four, agenda review, additions, deletions or changes in order of agenda items. Are there any? And I know this is a 32nd interval. So Megan, do you have any? OK. No changes. Yeah, there'll be lots of pregnant pauses tonight, huh? OK. OK. Comments and questions from the public not related to the agenda. Are there any? Seeing none, we'll move on to announcements in the city manager's report. You want to start with any announcements? Megan? OK. All right. Tom? This morning I met with Peter Taylor and CSI Radar in our role as South Burlington Sextons. So we walked to cemeteries and we are just getting an idea. We're hoping to come to the council sometime this summer, late this summer with just a general outline of some things we think that would be worth our attention. And we'll probably vet that through Tom or Kevin before doing that. But this company specializes in sonar. So we're just trying to get our hands around the technology that would be available to inventory the resting souls in our two city cemeteries. Nothing else comes to mind. Great. Well, I knew that was a good appointment. Where's the second? The two. One is Eldridge, which is right by the airport. And then the second one, you won't find it unless you're looking for it. It's Shelburne Road behind the Olive Garden. And plots are available. They are available. The dog park is not. Tim, do you have any? So after our first meeting of July, I attended the same night, the open space meeting and the DRB meeting. But I really should have swapped the two for the timings that I spent at each meeting because the DRB meeting had the 180 Market Street subdivision. And I was upstairs for that and didn't realize that. And I, anyway. So the school board was here presenting their memo. I then attended the Planning Commission meeting last night. Was there for the four to three vote to advise us, which you'll see later tonight, to not purchase the land. And I went to the Sobu night out. Beautiful night, cloudy, so not too hot, right? Great music, great food. And I just came from the sewage diversion party down on Farrell and Smith Street tonight, where we celebrated the turning of the switch right to divert the sewage from the Eastwoods neighborhood to Bartlett Bay instead of going to Brogdon. Great. Dave? Other than having joined the rest of you folks at the ceremony to open the new sewer system a few minutes ago, I've got nothing else on the fire in the last 10 days or so. Can I just add one thing to the event we just came to? Something that I hadn't seen in the press of what we had done down there. The two engineers told me that this is actually reducing the combined sewage overflow into Burlington. So our redirection of sewer to the South Burlington facility into our Bartlett Bay where we separate our stormwater from our sewage is helping Burlington's problem with the overflow over the past year that we've seen in the paper. So we're doing our part. That's right. It increases their capacity. And so it's another little effort by our city to keep the lake as clean as possible. Maybe we'll get a thank you letter from Burlington, right? Be great. Maybe. We can always hope. I went to Sobu Night Out. It was great. There were, I don't know, maybe thousands of people, at least hundreds. There were hundreds. There were a lot. Parking was a premium, but it was really, really fun. And the food was great and the music was good. And it was just, it's really satisfying to me to see that as a community. I mean, it really feels like a community event. And not to take anything away from our sister city, Burlington, but they do big events too on the waterfront. And I used to live in Burlington and I would go to them. But it never felt like a community event because people came in from all over because it was, you know, Burlington's big, whatever, beer fest or whatever it was. This was a community event. It was, I mean, maybe there were people from other communities. But it sure seemed like it was just our community. And that was very gratifying to me as it builds and it's really nice to see. I had, I met with the mayor of Burlington and the mayor of Winooski. We are continuing our every so month meetings. We had a great meeting last night and we'll talk about later on the agenda some of the outcomes of that in terms of potentially an MOU that we can all get behind. But I think that's a really positive exchange. It continues to be positive afterwards. I did talk with the mayor privately about the zoning change and that kind of issue as well. So I feel like it's really time well spent. So that's good. I also met with some individuals from the South Burlington Land Trust. They have some ideas about more open space. And they were planning to meet with all of the counselors on some potential steps forward. And we're getting kind of advice, I guess. I had an interesting meeting today. I was kind of a, not a fly on the wall, but I was late to the party in a way, but I was there. It was a meeting between our administration or management team and the school board's council and superintendent and director of operations as well as a member of the school board. So I tagged along as well. And we discussed some of the final sticking points, I guess, for the addendum. And I think we came to a good agreement that they are taking, they will take back to the school board. And we're not going to discuss that tonight, are we? No. But I think we made some really good progress. So I'm hoping they have some tentative meetings set up to give us the final Okidoki. And that's in the next week or so. So that is, that's good. And then I was also toasting with everyone else our sewage diversion event with some wonderful chocolate milk. City managers report. You want to go back to Megan? Oh, I'm sorry, Megan, excuse me. Yeah, thank you for helping me remind me of some things. Yes, I've met with a couple of citizen's groups. One is the South Burlington Land Trust. I should have done that beforehand. It is with the Queen City Park Group. Great. I forgot to mention I was also facilitating a panel for Channel 17 with Anne Pugh, Representative Anne Pugh from South Burlington and Senator Tim Ash. I asked them questions about the end of the session. And I did specifically ask two questions specifically for South Burlington. One was I asked them about, given the potentially large concept or plan for a new high school, middle school, and the cost of that, if the state was thinking about any state aid to education for capital funding. And apparently they have a small new program, but it's pretty small. And I encourage them to, because South Burlington and Burlington as well, they passed a bond for $30 million for their high school, aren't the only ones with older buildings. And then the second issue dealt with really the F-35s and the fallout in terms of the new noise maps and its impact on both our communities and certainly on Winooski. And I encourage them to think about their support, but also to be very forthcoming and open about speaking with our congressional delegation about the dollars that will be needed for any kind of sound mitigation. It's tens of millions of dollars every year potentially to undertake the mitigation that we're discussing in a plan to deal with the numbers of homes. It's 2,165 homes. It's enormous. It's 40% of Winooski's downtown or housing stock in their whole community. I mean, can you imagine having if the FAA got their way and said, well, 65 and under, we buy them out and raise them? What that would do to that community? I mean, it's outlandish. So the alternative is to really do sound mitigation, which requires an enormous amount of money. And I think it's going to take the legislature, the city of Burlington, and potentially our governor to really press the delegation in Washington to make sure there's money in the FAA budget to fund that kind of work. If in fact it's the right way to use our military commercial airport. And so they agreed that they would press that. They didn't change their position necessarily, but they recognize that that's potentially something the legislature could do. So maybe a resolution, I don't know, something that really puts that front and center. I think that would be really important if we're going to make progress. You're reminding me, I should let you all know too that I've been invited to talk on August 4th, the Women's International League for Peace and Freedom is having kind of a family community event in the Chamberlain neighborhood between Patrick and Airport Drive with the parade and things. And they asked me to speak about the impact of the potential for having nuclear weapons here. So I just wanted you all to know that. Great. Thank you. Okay. Thanks, Ellen. Thank you for those words about Sobu Night Out, all of you. I think it was a remarkably successful thing. Holly and her team, Travis Ladd in particular, deserve incredible credit for this. The Recreation and Parks Committee been there every step of the way helping to build this program. And I just look at the use of the facility on Thursday night. We had soccer and lacrosse, I think, both on the east side of the arenas. There was hockey going on in the arenas. There was a baseball game going on. There were two games going on. There were 100 kids on the playground equipment up there. And then there were 13 food trucks and 1,000 people listening to some great music. The entire facility was being used. And there wasn't a place to park anywhere, including down Swift Street and the churches across the street. So just a remarkable, remarkable event. Thank you to Jennifer for your leadership on the committee and Holly for your leadership among your staff. Outstanding. We have seven more of these. I know. Every Thursday night, go up and get some great food and music at the park. And you're right on helm. This was a true community event. It was fantastic. We have received a proposal for payment and lieu of taxes from the University of Vermont Medical Center. Tom's going to be taking a look at that over the next couple of weeks. I looked at it quickly. It's consistent with what they're already doing on their other facilities here. So when those two buildings at Tilly Drive went from private ownership to ownership by not-for-profit, it changed the tax status. And normally it would be exempt, but the University of Vermont Medical Center has a pilot program that we will get something from. Tom and I joined Chief Burke this morning and about a dozen of our police officers to welcome two new officers to our team. Oh, good. Young people, young men and young woman, who will be going to the academy in August. And 39 weeks later, hopefully, will be out on patrol in our community. Two very impressive young people, and we're excited about having them on board. We'll be doing some press around the Hadley Road project in the symbolic turning on of the valve today. As the rate payers for both our wastewater and our sewer fund and also for Champlain Water District, this was a joint project, rate payers for both are going to see significant savings. In addition to the environmental issues that you brought up, Helen, and Tom, I think about the impact on the Burlington system, it's going to have a very rapid payback period, and then all the benefits of having reduced costs, you know, forever. So it was a great project. There were some bumps along the way, I know, with traffic, but in the end, a great project. And in addition to that, if you have been down there, as the council has some great bike and pedestrian, mostly bike facilities now on that road, on Feral Street and Swiss Street, it's pretty neat. The mayor of Burlington actually complimented me on those, because he had written on them with his family last weekend. That's great. They're very nice. On that path, he was really impressed. And just an update for you on the food bank, Tom and I, and some others have been working on this project, much as demolition has been done in construction. Other committees are working on food and on operations and so on. I think it's, we have, the group has hired an executive director. I think that's, can be public now, Tom. Can we, Peter Carmoly, a South Burlington resident and former director of Meals on Wheels is going to be the part-time executive director of the, and we are incredibly fortunate to have him and his knowledge and enthusiasm. But we're, we're looking at an opening in September sometime, probably now. So, anyway, possibly the only, we'd love to have a mural on the side. The building's only likely to be there a couple of years. We'd hate to have a beautiful mural get demolished then. But yeah, yeah, we'd be interested in a mural. Okay, pass it on to whoever you might know. Yes. That's it. Okay. Okay. Seven city and school collaboration, kind of an update on anything that's happening. And I, I mentioned the meeting I went to where I think we made some progress on that, the addendum. Is there any other updates anyone has? I think that's a big thing. That's a big thing. Good progress today. The DRB did continue that application for the subdivision tomorrow. Yes. Right. Is it possible they could close that tomorrow? Yes. I think we have a commitment that, that we can report that all of the differences have been resolved so they can move ahead. At the staff level and that one, and with the caveat that the, that the school board member needs to go back and get the approval, the agreement of the other four. And what with that, I think we're there. Yeah. I think that was good. Okay. Any other? Well, I will say I did get a, an email from Elizabeth that included on it. And I, I will send it out to the council. I wasn't really certain. I got it this weekend, had a respond, but a former member was concerned about a reappraisal and its potential impact on the amount the city would need to fund the state education fund. It's based on your grand list, I guess, in a probably very long formula that I wouldn't be able to begin to identify. And the concern was from Elizabeth's perspective that they had not been apprised of that. And that before we went ahead with an appraisal, we probably should have solicited their input. You know, the citywide appraisal, the reappraisal, I'm sorry, the reappraisal, excuse me. So I think potentially I think maybe the public also doesn't understand that it's a state law to have your communities, businesses and homes reappraised, kind of along with the consensus every 10 years, I mean, you need to. And I understand that right now our businesses are at about 88 percent and our houses are about 96 or 92 or 93. But in terms of its impact on the how much we would owe the education fund, the state, the reason we know businesses are at 88 percent and homes are at 92 or three is because the state then takes our grand lists and increases it to 100 percent and that's how they determine how much is our portion of the state education fund. So it won't impact that. So that was just a misunderstanding or lack of information. So I think we need to get that word out. And when we meet with the school leadership, is it this Friday? 24th. Next Wednesday. That's right. We've changed it to Wednesday. We can talk about that because it certainly didn't occur to me to let the school board know that reappraisal was happening. We talked about it for a while and it seems like that's really city purview in my mind and not necessarily a conversation. Was there concern that with the reappraisal that homes that are under appraised under what their appraisal value should be could be seeing an increase in their taxes and then bad injunction with possibly a bond issue could mean that there's so some homes could be seeing kind of a double whammy, you know, in a couple of years when bonds. I think that's always whenever you do reappraisal, some people I mean the whole point of it is to make get to equity because some people are paying less than they should in terms of the value of their home or being subsidized by potentially people who are overtaxed because their home is overvalued in the current market, you know, maybe 10 years later. So yes, that always happens. But it's not a wholesale, we're reappraising and everyone's taxes are going to go up so we can because the rate gets set as I understand from Todd to arrive at the same dollar figure of income. So some people, so the rate is adjusted so that it equalizes that. So some people who were paying way below their new appraisal probably will pay more and other people will see a reduction because they've been paying more than their share. But that is the nature of a reappraisal and we do it every 10 years. So it happens and it but it requires, I guess, a little more education every time when we approach it and make sure the public understands that. And then they still will be annoyed when they get their new tax bill if it goes up. But that's, you know, that just is the way. So I guess we can try to remember next time we do reappraisal to let the school board know. But I frankly, it didn't occur to me that that was a subject that needed conversation together. So communication, right, right. All right. Are there any other comments? City? OK. The consent agenda, I would entertain a motion to consider the and sign the disbursements and approve the minutes of May 6th and June 3rd. So moved. Second. Is there any discussion? Megan? No, nothing. OK, so we have a motion and seconded all in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. OK, so you can't vote twice. So that has been adopted. So moving on to number nine. Hey, we're ahead of schedule. Presentation, discussion, impossible council action related to updating the South Burlington Parks Management Plans. And we'll have Jennifer Cokman and Dave Crawford and Holly Bees. Welcome. Yes, please for the public. Jennifer Cokman and at the time of this resolution, I was chair of Recreation and Parks. And now we have a new chair of Recreation and Parks. Congratulations. Congratulations to Tammy and Katie like rock with the our vice chair and more we will be our secretary. So we are in the process of transition right now. And I'm just I'm I'm thrilled. I think that the new leadership is going to be. And I really enjoy being. So we had various kinds of things coming to us in terms of management of our parks, one of them, for instance, the the trees at the Overlook Park and wetland kinds of studies at Underwood and Wheeler and so on. And Holly at Holly's suggestion, we approved our committee approved. Forming a task force to be able to actually do what we do in these things is prioritize, set, you know, set an inventory and then prioritize who is going to do what and on what kind of timeline. And we have felt that forming this kind of task force has been really effective that there are a number of different interests involved, natural resources and recreation and parks and the ecological people and the the people who actually do the work. And so we thought that this proposal by Holly was a really good idea. And we're looking for your support on this. So I'll let Holly speak to this. Sure. So Holly Reese, Recreation and Parks Director. Ashley Parker and I have been talking for months now, as you'll hear in our report from the Recreation and Parks Committee, we have an abundance of land, beautiful land that we want to care for and have access for. Currently, we have two management plans within the city for park lands. One is Red Rocks and one is the Wheeler Management Plan. And both of those were constructed in completely different ways. The Natural Resources Committee had taken up creation of the management plan for Wheeler while Sophie Mazawita and some of her professionals had done the Red Rocks Management Plan. So in talking with getting some consistency and form, as well as staff input and community input, it seemed best to form a task force so we could, first of all, get the consistent management plans created and then update them as they needed to be about every five years. So the list that you have before you have folks that we feel would comprise that task force was created with input from staff and both the Recreation and Parks Committee and Natural Resources Committee. And Dave, I don't know if you want to share any details. Natural Resources has been supportive of the very support of having management plans. Now, having said that, when this first came my attention to come to this meeting a few weeks ago, the Natural Resources Committee has not actually discussed this proposal. I just make that caution and full disclosure. However, they are extremely supportive of management plans both for city parks and for public or private entities. In fact, we want at some point to support a change in the land development code to include all private developers in that it's not included now. So that's coming up. Having said that again, we think this is going to come. I feel there's no question about what this will be is supported by the committee, although it hasn't been a vote on it. But it's been heard about. Can you explain a little better for me? I don't understand when you say the private developers in the management plan. It's something that's come out from my attendance in the development review committees that there is no management plans for most, are not required for most public or most private development. Oh, I see. So. And they are required for plan unit developments. The Natural Resources Committee has come out as one of their priorities. When it's the right time, we'd like to submit and question is when's the right time. But it is on our work plan and wanting to make that over. Okay. Thank you. That clarifies. Our intents and purposes, the Red Rocks management plan is due to be updated. So that will be a first priority as well as updating the wheeler creation of an underwood property park management plan and also city center park. So those would be the four priorities before we started spreading out to other things. And during the Red Rocks earlier, six months ago, there was quite a discussion in the Natural Resources just about the Red Rocks and the process that that would be going through. So that will be something that's very much of interest to them. So you, are you comfortable with the council taking a position on this before the Natural Resources Committee officially? I don't think there's, I would not delay it on the basis of that. That would not be my feeling. I was being overly cautious in saying we haven't discussed this particular. We'll see your minutes. Yeah. A reference to a management plan was in your last minute cycle. Yes, we've been talking about them, but not this specific sort of pack idea. But I don't, I just can't imagine not being fully supportive of it. I just cautious. All right. And then the representative from each of the committees would be selected by the committee. Is that the intention? And then how about the representative from the community? How do you imagine finding that person? I don't know that we necessarily gave consideration to how we would find that person. I think we, you know, obviously would have public meetings so somebody could step up. I think that it might be relevant to location so that if when we do the Red Rocks management plan update, it would be more important and relevant to have perhaps somebody from Queen City Park neighborhood. Whereas if we're doing center center park, it might be more meaningful to have a neighbor from, from that area. It might be flexible. Yeah. Okay. And you did, I do notice you have the, they, it might be nice to look for a South Burlington master naturalist. Yes. The intent is to pull somebody from the South Burlington master naturalist program as well. Okay. That would help. Is there any questions or comments, Megan? You're married to a naturalist. David Crawford was just speaking. And that she didn't seem to respond in any way. But I think that what I had with regard to the plan and with regard to Red Rocks or with regard to the whole plan with increasing programming and the other things that have been mentioned and what we read. Yeah. So Megan, I think it's in reference to both updating and creation of management plans for our city owned open spaces. And so when we update the Red Rocks management plan, it would really be, you know, focused already on what the quality work that's already been put into that with, with some additions. So not necessarily programming, although access will be an important piece of those with regard to Red Rocks. I think I've shared with Jennifer, who then shared with Holly. I've shared with Helen as well as with Kevin and then Jennifer and Holly shared with Tammy that there was some concern about the Yappie hour. And I think now that Red Rocks Park has been put on all of our radars with regard to the quantity of dogs. And I think that Yappie hour is going to be discussed. Committee as well as the dog park committee. So I'm potentially moving into our new dog park. But I think that's my only comment. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions or comments by council members? Yeah, I'd like to personally, on behalf of the council, thank Jennifer for all your fantastic work for so many years that you did as chair of the recreation parks committee as a member and as chair. And it's just been wonderful to have your diligence and your attention to detail and just everything you could possibly do on behalf of recreation in South Burlington. If we can figure away how to pay for a new indoor recreation facility, the mission will be complete, right? No, I'm looking forward to that. Thank you. All right. Great. So I would entertain a motion to support the creation of the formation of a management plan task force with as articulated on this resolution. I'd happily make that motion. I just have one question. This might be for Tom and Kevin. This task force can note any sort of for spot additional open meeting public entity or is working group possibly a term that would, since most of these majority of these individuals are paid professionals. I'm just wondering if there is any slack or preference towards how you entitle this group as to not avoid open meeting law, but in order to conform and to facilitate functioning of the of the organized individuals. It's a public body. It has the endorsement or will of the city council. So it has to be considered as a obligated to meet the public meeting laws. I think the word task force implies a short duration for a particular task, as opposed to a permanent committee. And that's why I think we're chose choosing that word, but it still has to comply with public meeting. Then I'll make the motion as you described Helen. Okay. And second. Any further discussion? All in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. And the second I have the Davis comments for Senator Cochran. The tremendous number of our community. You are indeed and we thank you. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Okay. So I guess you can, I guess we want Tammy to come up. Dave, you're. Dave, I think you're still on. Doesn't say it just says Jennifer, Tammy. I'm taking your microphone so we can have you stay. Oh, I'm sorry, Dave. Dave, I'm sorry. I got my stuff mixed up. Sure, get out. You're just waiting to say that. All right, so item 10 is the update from the recreation parks committee on current activities and you sent us a wonderful report. So before we get started, and Tammy can certainly introduce herself, but I wanted to echo everyone's compliments and comments to Jennifer. Certainly as the newbie, she's been great at really helping me grow as a director and really helping the department grow. So I'm extremely grateful for all of her wisdom and guidance and energy and advocacy around recreation and parks and thrilled that she's still staying on the committee. So we will still have that guidance and look for new and exciting energy from our new chair, Tammy. I've read that Jennifer was a great asset in the one year that I've been on the committee. She's been very helpful to me to learn more about the community since I was fairly new to this community. But I'm excited to step into her shoes with a lot of hand-holding. And I look forward to getting to know all of you a little bit better. So I think my portion of today is to talk about the NRPA. This is something that Holly has had her staff for the last three years enter data into this national database. We're still refining the information as we enter it, trying to figure out exactly what we should be entering and how it should look. And we've had questions every year about it. But the things that stand out year over year are the things that our mission is driving us to do. We need a facility for our community members to have a place to recreate. We need open space for them to be able to also get outside. So overall, in the last three years, the same theme has come through. And it's basically a facility is needed. And we know that for a long time that Jennifer has been working on it as well as everyone else in the community. We have a small staff, which that will continue to change, I believe, as we've already seen a couple new additions to the group. And then we excel really, really well on preserving our open space. We have more miles of trails and open space than other like communities our size. So I think our overall picture is a great one. Now we just need to refine the things that we're missing. And hopefully we can get to that point, have a recreation center so the community has a place to go during the winter months when they can't be outside on those trails. I just wanted to add as well, while the NRPA, what was pro-rages, now matrix work, is in its third year, this year, the Vermont Recreation and Parks Association took on a similar venture. So they were contracting with the SE Group to do a similar survey of Vermont towns and cities. So we participated in the data entry of that and we're awaiting the results. So that will another step confirm, you know, what we've long suspected known and confirmed through the NRPA results as well. So we're still waiting for those and when we get those, we'll put them in a report and send them your way as well. Well, I want to thank Tammy and Katie Lane Rock and the subcommittee for doing the work on this this year. I thought it was appropriate to ask Tammy and Katie in particular to take this on and they did a great job. So thank you. And I think it, you know, there is not that much change from the one that we brought you two years ago. We have done a good job with preserving our open space. Our budget in comparison to other communities is low. Other communities have program space and indoor recreation facilities that they can program in anytime. They can call it their own and they have the use and governance of those and those are things that South Burlington has been working on for a long time and we're still working on these things. I think the first time we studied an indoor recreation facility was back in 2013 when it was that original task force with the city center project of what buildings are going to go into city center and should they all be in the same building and that task force after meeting six times said all three buildings should go in city center and they should all go in the same building and I think we've gone through for a recreation facility we have gone through five different proposals to get to this point where it's going to be we hope at Veterans Park and to my mind that is the best of all the options we've had so far. The arena, repurposing schools, Dorset Street I think this is the best of all of those possible combinations. So we're looking forward to seeing this through. I wanted to just also update you'll have the pretty version of the 2018 annual report the committee is working as you know for the September symposium so you'll see a lot of new information coming in that but I did just wanna update you on our staffing so as you may hopefully are aware we have two programmers now so we have both Brett Leonard and Ben McShane so we are putting together the next brochure next magazine which should be out end of August early September I think you'll see a lot more variety in programming so we're really excited about that structure change and the energy that that's bringing. Are you gonna take us through the report or not? It's just a question, it's not a request. It was just a good plan to do that. Sure, Tammy could or Jennifer could, whoever. Or you wanna just do highlights or whatever it's like. Yeah, I read it so. Yeah, I read it too. I mean it is similar to the past. Sure, the NRPA report? Yeah, yeah. So Jennifer maybe you wanna? You know actually I think Tammy because Tammy was the person who put all of the information into the Excel sheet I think Tammy is probably more... Anything that you think sort of jumped out of you, Tammy? The kinds of things that we've already touched on we have a lot of trails, we have a lot of open space we don't do a lot with our open space we like to keep it natural but there are plans in the works that we haven't completed yet like the Underwood plan, like the easement on Wheeler and so on and the conservation fund when it went from half funding to purchasing and half funding to amenities and upkeep when that committee, that task force met they came up with $4.5 million of items that needed to be addressed in our open space and we had $1.3 million to work with and we sent you and you approved the priorities on that of I think the bath house was building a new bath house was like the first one of the second tier of things after the other thing. So the upkeep is something we are concerned about the just going forward on the plans that the city actually has participated in like the visioning for Underwood is something that we keep an interest in. City center, the plan for that had a lot of people involved in making those decisions and that has turned out to be a beautiful park. So it feels to me as if for the 12 years I've been on this committee everything is kind of work in progress and I see- It's like our city. Yeah, just like our city. So when Tom was director when I first started out on this committee and I think we sent you a list of the things that we think we need to work on and the list is pretty much the same as what it was 12 years ago. We need additional playing fields. We need indoor recreation field. We need program space and these are things that city council works on city management works on our committee works on natural resources, planning commission, part of this. You know, it's all kind of there are a lot of pieces to it, a lot of different actors in it. And so we just try to move these things forward. Tammy, do you have any additional comments? Just a piggyback on what Jennifer was talking about. I think that we just need to be very aware and I'm on the IZ committee as well. So we're looking at all these parcels. We just need to be aware and the work plans will help us do that of what needs to be done in the future to preserve these lands and keep them in good repair for the residents to use. And I think that's going to be a big step moving forward for all of our parcels, all the pieces of land that we own and maintain. Council, any comments or thoughts? I just have one thought looking, you know, you look at the numbers and from the national group and we look like we're in pretty good shape in terms of open space and parks and a number of things, not staffing for sure and not facilities, but the rest of it. But we still have certainly lots of people in the community who believe that more open space is important for whatever use, whether it's minimal or more trails or whatever. And I think someone could jump to the conclusion, well, we've done it. We have all the land we can ever possibly need preserved and in parks. But I think we have to remember that we also are a growth center for in the ECOS plan and the CCRPC certainly has identified South Burlington as the place to build additional housing. So when the population increases, then these percentages or ratios change and we may not be looking as sweet as we look right now. So I think I would just encourage us as a community not to read this and just say, well, we've done that. We just need to build a facility and hire a few more people and a pool, of course. And then we... It didn't make it on the list, Tim. You know, we have enough trails or whatever because I think a lot of this recreation decisions that the community makes are reflective of what this community values as recreation, which might be a little bit different than a national roundup of data that says the optimum number of open acres for a community of 20,000 is X. And I'd like to think that we have a broader view of what is appropriate amount of trails, open space, athletic fields, maybe. I think you're right. And I think that part of what South Burlington treasures is our views and just being able to take a drive and go past, you know, like driving past Underwood and the views of the lake, that is part of who we are and conservation is one of the pillars of recreation and parks. I want to say one more thing. We have a really good staff and they work very hard and we can't praise our staff enough. I mean, these are dedicated people who put in extra thought and time and really devote themselves to the department. So, I think they're very creative. I mean, we used to have a lot of different kinds of activities with children and the school has sort of taken that over. So you recreate what you do and you recalibrate. And I think you are working really hard and quite successfully in meeting some of the demands, different new demands of the public. So keep on trucking. Any other comments, thoughts, Tim? Just to add to what you were saying, as the population of the city grows, I have a feeling that the ratio of per capita open space is going to probably remain a little bit constant or maybe decrease in a minor way compared to the disparity of the actual concrete recreational facilities. Yes, I would agree. Right. In fact, maybe the open space thing actually gets worse. Not gets worse, but I mean, the number gets larger. I mean, as time goes on and depending upon how open space acquisitions start to flesh out. But I think that we're looking at a significant population increase right with city center with a few other developments and redevelopments. So, and that's just gonna keep, I think that's gonna keep going. So I think it's important that we focus on the disparities in the concrete facilities. I think I interrupted, Tim. I was just gonna say, Helen, that I think when Holly gets the results back from the Vermont survey, we'll have a much better idea of where we stand as a community related to people who have the same values. And I think that could be a really important study for us to put these two together when we get them back. Thank you, that's probably very true. I just wonder if sometimes there will be that the desire for open space might be at odds with the funding for concrete recreational space. We have to keep that in mind. Well, that's always a balance. Don't we argue about that all the time? I know it, I know it. So I'm, you know, there are two separate forces of the city that wanna go hard in each other direction. So just keep that in mind. Tom. I just say, I agree with your assessment that the current per capita amount of open space that we have, as much as it's more than our comparable municipality, it reflects the character of South Burlington. And so that's in line with how I perceive it. And I also just wanna highlight, it shows that in that same comparison, we have almost half as much staff as a comparable sized municipality. So you all do a great job. The last thing I just wanna say is more family bingo, please. Family bingo is great. We need more family bingo. Yes, we're working on it. We need to find a bigger space. That's right, I was just gonna say they need a bigger room, Tom. Loading family bingo in the swimming pool, all right? That'd be good. I can go for that. So, Bobo Nights, tell people, ride your bicycles, if you can. Absolutely, yeah. Avoid the parking crunch and bring your bike. Always free parking for the bike. Free parking for bikes, no problem, yep. Okay. Well, thank you very much. Thank you very much. Okay, can I just say one thing? Oh, I'm sorry, yes, Megan, sorry. That's all. You say that the National Park data also shows that we're kind of under the threshold for even having a facility. And so, I think that, just like many of my colleagues have already said, we have to really think, yeah, how do we measure up to kind of that measuring stick, but also what our values are. And I think that's from us in particular, but also helped really since from us, is that we really value just moving, I think that in both areas, open space and looking for a recreation facility that we're, I think we're really reflecting very common values here and reasons why people move here, same with our bike paths. This is something that makes our town and makes our region very attractive. So I think if we're beating national averages and some of these things, it's to our benefit. That's what I wanted to add. Great, thank you. Thank you. Okay, moving on, item 11. Consider and possibly award a contract for design services for a proposed South Burlington Recreational Facility. Kevin's gonna, in five minutes, tell us about that. Well. We're ahead of schedule. You can do a little bit more. More than that. So the city put out an RFP back in June for design services for the indoor, proposed indoor recreation facility at now planned to be at Veterans Memorial Park. We had six design firms respond to the RFP with their proposals. We went on those down to three firms last Friday, Thursday. Holly, Alana, Tom and I interviewed the three who we felt had the best combination of design, experience, community outreach, focus, programmatic outreach and price for the bid. And we arrived after some discussion after that, those interviews with a consensus candidate that we wanna propose to you tonight. And that candidate was Freeman, French Freeman. And I sent you some information, I think, by email. I remember seeing that. I should hope I said that. Yeah, I did remember reading it. Was it a Word document or was it a PDF? Well, there was a PDF in there. Okay. All right, tell me. Is that recently? It would have been on Friday. Yeah. Did you get something for me? I got about that, so I don't. Here's the updates. Yeah, here's what the update. Resolution directing the city manager to negotiate and execute a contract. Yeah. Did they, did all the firms work with that preliminary work that was done by a different firm earlier on? Did they all start with that same base left? They all started from that. So the concept was there, the program concept was there. That work was done by Doran Whittier. Yeah. And the preliminary drawings, they all worked from that baseline. We paid Doran Whittier for that work, and they were one of the bidders in the. They were also one of the bidders. Yeah. And what is the cost? Is this $175,000? Yes, roughly. Now, we're going to negotiate the price with them, but our estimate is for this phase is $175,000. We still have some questions to ask of them, minor things, but our recommendation is to negotiate a contract with them for these services. There's a budget item for this for this year, next year? This will come out of recreation impact fees, and it is in the CIP as part of the design. Of FY20, that's my current fiscal model. Is that design, $175,000, is that how far into the project does that take us, or is that the whole ball of wax? No, the whole ball of wax is going to be significantly more than that. So if you compare to what we had when we went into the vote for the community center, and the continuation of the design that has occurred since that vote was taken back in November, they're still working on the design. So similarly, this would be a preliminary design that has community outreach to confirm the programmatic needs both from the professionals and from the community. That also generates some diagrams of what that need looks like when it's reduced to a design for a facility, and also give us a preliminary cost estimate. And then we felt at that point, we would recommend stopping until such time as the council decides to take the proposal to the public for a vote on financing. And if the public supports it then, we would open it back up again to continue the design services. Is the door will your contract done? They have done, they've completed their work, the preliminary work. Okay. And so this work, even if we chose, you know, depending on what the school board does with their plans for going to the public for a lot of money, would still probably be viable for several years. The price would have to be adjusted, but yeah, I would say it's viable. But they're findings and kind of what? On the programmatic. The reflection of the programming. And the design, yes, it would be. Well, I'm being perfectly transparent. I mean, in the discussions each of us has had the last week with the land trust, you know, they consider, they think perhaps preservation and purchase of open spaces may warrant priority over funding for the recreational facility. I mean, ideally we can figure a way to do both, but I'm a little concerned about that. Well, we have a dedicated fund for the purchase of open space. Not a whole lot in it at the moment though, is there? There's not a lot that has been invested. And the most recent investment is about to come to fruition. Small, I don't know if we're gonna talk about that at this point, but there is a dedicated fund for that. And arguably the committee and the public have been asking for a recreation facility for now decades. So therefore I would make the motion because we can't get to where we need to be without doing this. I make the motion that we award a contract to Freeman French Freeman for design services for proposed South Burlington Recreation Facility. An authorized need to negotiate a contract. I'll second it and then I'd like a little discussion. Yes, yeah. I just wanna say I'm gonna support this because I love the location. Veterans Memorial makes a lot of sense and if this doesn't happen right away, though I support it happening right away, we need indoor rec space. I've got three small kids and finding basketball space for them in the wintertime is really difficult and all the other reasons. So fully support moving this forward and I think the $175,000 is well spent because if it doesn't happen for whatever financial pressures on the short term, we own that land and I think that's where it's gonna go sooner or later and it's not like it's a speculation or a speculative property. So fully on board. All valid. Tim. So I'm still, I don't understand exactly what this design with this contract finance in terms of design services that you haven't already seen from Dr. Whittier. Oh, the door and Whittier proposal was really a minimal, very preliminary concept. This will get more of the detailed design, not a complete design, that's to come later, but it also confirms through the public outreach process, will probably confirm the public needs and the programs that we hope to deliver there. You know, five years ago, we may not have had an accommodation for pickleball. Well, now we absolutely need to have an accommodation for pickleball, don't we, Madam Chair? But, and so it's gonna, part of this is public outreach and a lot of it is design, but it's very preliminary. So we had, when we went to the voters in November with the community center, you had that visual and you had some sense of floor plan. But since that time, of course, there's been an enormous amount of design work that has been going on. So, this is the next step in the design process. What other design work has been going on? With the community center, we've got reams of blueprints that are gonna be developed, all the electrical. Oh, for 180 marks, you're talking about the rec center. So, I mean, what we see with what we got from Dora Whittier in terms of three-dimensional models, right, and projections and likenesses and some internal diagrams, right, with some functionality, that's just the beginning. That's just the beginning. We, what we wanted to try to validate most with that was whether or not a inflatable structure, a rigid inflatable or a more traditional solid structure would be the best value. And I think the consensus was, but it could still be tested again that a traditional construction was probably the best long-term value for the community. But we can revalidate that and we hope to get up to better numbers for price. So, but that- What you think is pretty critical if we then, at least then the public would know what we're talking about relative to all the different demands on their pocketbook. Versus, well, we think it'll be between, you know, three and $8 million, but we don't really know or whatever the numbers were. Yeah, we really did not get a solid or even a close number for what the cost would be for that facility. How much was the Dora Whittier contract? Under 10. Under 10? Under 10, yeah. I'd like an attempt to, any time you do an infrastructure project, you do a pre-scope and then you scope it, you really get into the finer details and confirm the design, the layout, and the cost. I would liken the Dora Whittier to the pre-scope and this project more to the scope of the actual facility. And then I want to make sure Megan can weigh in. Now that I know that the Dora Whittier contract is 10, I'm in full support of this. I was a little less. I was under 10. Megan, do you have any comments or questions? Please ask. This is something other than just has been in the works, for sure. As we weren't able to read from the facility or the specific design, take it step by step. Any other comments? Let's go. I mean, I just have one and that is just a concern that how this will be perceived by the school board, given the work that they are doing and their visioning. But I also believe that we've done a lot of work as a community and had lots of discussions about the need for recreational facilities. So this isn't kind of a shot in the dark and it shouldn't catch them unawares, but I just recognize the sensitivity of this moment when they are really grappling with what they're gonna present for a new high school or refurbished schools whatever it is they're gonna come forward with. So I just wanna recognize that, but at the same token, I mean, we have to do our due diligence and our work and this is certainly an issue that the public has been very forthcoming with us about identifying the need. Well, we've been looking at the need for years and years. It should come as no surprise to anybody that we're getting to the point where we gotta do this. And perhaps from a school perspective, maybe this facility, if it comes to pass, will enable them to perhaps look at this as meeting at least some peripheral needs of what they've concocted and maybe can find ways to save based on this. Well, I hope they'll take part in the conversation with the public so that some of those identified recreational or athletic needs for students potentially can be realized in another facility. I just wanted to recognize that there's some sensitivities out there that are very real and we need to voice them and appreciate them. All right, so we have a motion that's been seconded to go forward with this having you negotiate for this contract. If there's no further discussion, I'll... Is there a cap on the amount of money to this in terms of negotiation or are you certain that that's the amount? We're in the neighborhood, very, very close neighborhood. Very close neighborhood, sorry to interrupt. Okay, that's fine, that's a good question. All right, all in favor? Aye. Aye. Okay, thank you. What's your timeline on this, I forgot to ask that. Fast. We'll start by the way. Item 12, council interviews, impossible appointment to South Burlington board's committees and commissions. And we have an opening on the affordable housing committee and we have an applicant, Paula de Michele. Oh, de Michael, oh. Well, so please come forward, Paul. I agreed since it was so close to all the other appointments we made that it was okay to extend this, that people wouldn't be annoyed. So welcome and we have read, I have read, I'm sure everyone else does, your very thorough letter. And so it, from reading this it sounds like maybe you can just say in a few words so the public knows why you're interested and you bring certainly some real life experiences as well as some public experiences to that role. Well, I grew up in Ohio in a farm county and kind of went full circle and ended up back there. But in the meantime, I was in Houston and then in Washington. And 87 to 97 when I was in Washington, they were already where Burlington is now. They just didn't want to do anything about it. So now they're in crisis. And then I was in Baltimore and then I had to go back to Ohio for family reasons. And from the time I left in the 70s was when the rust belt was pretty much abandoned and all the economies there went down. So when I was back, I was on a couple of boards, museums and then someone invited me to go to a Habitat for Humanity meeting. And I ended up on that board for five years. And I got to see firsthand how much trouble people were having finding a place to live that was decent. And in that county, it was $17,000 a year per capita income. And we actually had trouble finding people who could handle a $300 a month mortgage. So that was my first involvement, direct involvement. And it changed the way I thought about housing and about what people could afford. Oh, the economy, jobs, income, the disparity between incomes and what people could afford for housing. I was there back there for seven years. It's a very poor area. And finally, when I left that time, decided I was gonna go where I'd always wanted to be, which was Vermont. I've been here 13 years. And the oddity, as you know right now, is that I've just moved to South Burlington after 13 years in Essex. 2013 was when I started getting involved in the housing issue in Essex. And that was the year I met Regina Mahoney from CCRPC and Mara Collins from VHFA. And they came to the Planning Commission in Essex and they presented all kinds of numbers. And the one that stuck with me, the two were that 40% of the people were paying 25% or more for housing. 17% of the people were paying more than 50% for housing. Now that is up well over 20% or paying more than 50% for housing. I don't see how that's sustainable anywhere. I don't know what the number is here. I haven't heard from the committee. I'm curious what percentage or more than 50% here. That's what started me off. And then I said in the letter, I saw the article about when you set up the trust fund and that you already had a committee. And that inspired me to start bugging the trustees and the council out there. And I didn't get very far. Since then, Mara has come forward. I did go to a council meeting with her. And last June, she went to the trustees and said, if you will start a committee, I will chair it. And I didn't know until November at the housing conference, she expects me to be on the committee. And I thought, wait a minute, I don't know anything much about what a committee does. And I had met John Simpson and Sandy at the CCRPC meetings. So I emailed John and I said, would it be all right if I started coming to the meetings because I need to learn what these committees do? And he said yes. So since early February, I have been at every meeting they've had. And I have to say I am really impressed with everybody on that committee. They work. Yeah, that's a pretty cool committee. And they meet twice a month, which absolutely staggered me. But, and three of them at least probably should be considered grandmasters in housing. It's like, inclusionary zoning is like a chess game. I don't understand more than about 25% of it. So, but I have learned a lot. And that's what I told John. I sit in the meetings. I very rarely say anything because I'm not a committee member. I told him I came there to learn and I have learned a lot. I've learned about Burlington, South Burlington to some extent because we do get into things with the code that are related with planning commission. But there's an awful lot I don't know. Obviously I'm going to have to learn it. I've learned a lot sitting here tonight about what your community is concerned with. My commitment, I'm changing communities. So I did want to say this. My commitment is to affordable housing for people who really need it. It is not the first question with me what community I'm in, but whatever community I am in that's going to be mine, I want to help with this if I can. And I did not expect to be asked to apply. I have to say that they were sitting there talking about who might be on the committee. And all of a sudden, Mike Seminoe pointed at me. And I said, I don't know that I have the right skillset. And he said, your skillset is that you just went through this trying to find a place to live. And what I found when I was looking at rents and what was available because I'm section eight. And I don't know if you've heard this figure, but 48% of section eight in the state of Vermont is people over 62. So it's not what you would normally think of as section eight population. And by golly, something came open at the pines. They told me six to nine months and I thought I was going to lose my voucher and I didn't know where it was going to be. And it came open at the pines, so I'm in. And I'm close enough to walk, which I did tonight. So you know when the committee meets how often, so that doesn't scare you away? Oh no, no, I'm retired. That's not an issue. I have been taking, in fact, the big issue when I wanted to be gone to the committee was how I was going to get here because I don't have a car. And so I had a friend who drove me over during the winter and picked me up and then since May when it got warmer, I've been taking the bus into Burlington and then out here. Now you just have to walk. Now I just have to walk, two walks. So I'm going to be there whether I'm on the committee or not and John knows this. He said, you can still come back to the meetings. He knows I'm going to be there. It's not an interest. For me personally, it's a cause because from what I heard at the housing convention in November, this is everywhere. Housing is going up twice as fast as income. It's not just California and these odd places where it's extreme, it's all over the country. Okay, well it sounds like you have the passion in your belly and some experience. Are there any other questions? She's attended a lot of meetings already. She's a partner. I'll suit it. And she has personal experience, which I really appreciate. Right, okay. Well, thank you very much for applying. Do we need to, we can just say yay, right? Yay, yay, yay, yay, yay, yay. So I would entertain a motion to appoint Paula de Michael. De Michael, it's Italian, it's not French. So moved. Second. Okay, Megan, do you have any questions or thoughts? No, I have. Okay. No questions. So all in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Thank you very much. Welcome to our community and welcome to our work. Thank you. I'll be back because if you want me to vote for you, I want to know what you're doing here. Well, good, you can walk over. They don't do it this way and ask that you wait and get a phone call the next day. Before we leave this subject, really, I have a question about how much transparency there is in Chittenden County about what rents actually are. So I know that if you're section eight, that's federal information. I'm assuming that that's available to local governments to obtain, right? And that's just the voucher part. The question is, is the personal part of the rent also public knowledge that you then get an understanding of what the total rent is, the total rent burden for any section eight housing, right? And the next question is, and that's not, I mean, that's sort of subsidized market rate. The next question is non-subsidized housing that's at market rate. How do we know in South Burlington what those rents are and is that private information? For those properties that received landlord certificates to the state for application for a rent to rebate claim, there's a document created by the landlord that's filed with the state that says what the rent is for that household. The question is, is that considered to be private and confidential information or not? The income tax part of that I can see should be because it indicates some money that the person got back. But the rent to rebate, that's a question I have is that really private or not? If it's not private, why can't the city have that information? And then the next question is, how do you find out what everybody else is paying for rent in, let's say in South Burlington, especially on East Terrace, right? Especially for all those homes that are rented by the students, you know? I mean, just asking that question in general, if you really want to get a picture of what the rental burden is, it'd be nice to know what every rental property is actually charging for their property. I can comment from what I've heard at the meeting and because I know Mara Collins, I believe the VHFA database that they have now is supposed to have that kind of information on it. But even for the private rental agreement between students and property owners? But VHFA, Leslie's Black Plumeau was on the committee. She works for Mara. She would be the one to ask. Well, those are good questions and I don't know. I mean, how confidential is a rent? I don't know. I don't know either. Is that because it's a private contract between two parties? No idea. Thank you. Thank you. Well, maybe those are questions we could ask the Affordable Housing Committee to see if they can find out and develop some data for our community. So we do have an idea. Okay. All right. Item 13, council consideration and possible action related to proposed changes to the South Burlington official map and the possible purchase of property. And we have a letter from the chair of the South Burlington Planning Commission that basically they said we shouldn't purchase the property for that roadway and city center and that they have tasked one of their subcommittees to the form-based code subcommittee to review that they make a recommendation for what other avenues we should explore, changing the map or. So I don't know if there's any action that we need to take tonight. You have to decide whether or not you wanna buy the property. Oh, okay. Well, they're recommending that we don't buy it. Okay, so. Can you refresh, remember about what that whole process is? Cause every time I think about it, I forget. You're asking that, Tim. Oh, this. So it's the two sort of water ponds and there's an official map that shows that there's a road going across it, which seems untenable. The Planning Commission said four to three that we shouldn't buy the land. What happens if we don't buy the land and how does it get removed from the map and how does that affect the developers? If we don't buy it, they can go ahead. The roads are removed from the map. So we're given the option to buy it. And if we don't take the option, the roads are removed from the map. How does that happen? Is that a Planning Commission? No, it's just automatic. It's just automatic, okay. And I think we have X number of days to do this. And then, and if we don't take any action. Like 45 days or something like that? It was 128 days at the time that the permit application to build the store water features from when the application for that storm water pond was rejected or denied. So they were denied because the official map said there's roads there. So now we have the opportunity to buy the property from the owner, which in this case, and if we do buy it, you can do that. The Planning Commission is suggesting that that's not a good idea. So I move that the city council plan to not purchase that property that is an official road on the map, the city map. You have something to describe? I just wanna say, yeah, for the public at home we're talking about connecting from San Remo Drive to Garden Street, which doesn't mess, doesn't, as my limited planning expertise lack thereof, doesn't seem like a necessary flow of our city streets. And also Market Street. And Market Street, so. It actually, it connects from San Remo Drive through Garden Street and into a section of the Lou Mall, the back corner of the Lou Mall. That's that segment of the road that is being asked to be removed from the official map. Right, because it's mostly wetlands. Doesn't seem like a critical road component for that area, so that's why I support it. And then I think what the planning commission plans to do is to discuss bike or ped paths, correct? So that the desire for, you know, walkable and accessible, or accessibility to the downtown is retained in some way. Not a road, but some kind of pathway or walkway. So I think that's what they will be discussing. How to, does that have to get added to the map, the walk pathways? I don't know. I believe the potential, I believe what they are discussing is should they add something to the official map or is there just a negotiation process? So that's what I guess the form-based code will add to their subcommittee, to their conversations. Correct. So are you... As long as that doesn't impede the process of getting these permits, which it sounds like it can't. Is that a true statement? If the form-based code committee comes back and has some objection, can they present an impediment? To this? Yes. No, no, I think they've already voted for three. They were just tasked with, okay, no road, we're not gonna buy it, so it comes off the map, but we do want you to discuss and consider how we maintain that connectivity by foot or bike or both. And this will allow the stormwater pond application then to move forward, which we're dependent on as well as many others. Dominoes. That's exactly right, it's a process, let's go. I'm gonna start, are you ready for the vote? Oh, Megan, do you have anything, Dad? To say that not having a car access does not mean there can't be pedestrian and bike access. And I think that it's the most important thing for our city center. I really think that we have to be thinking in a forward way and not centering everything on the car, so I, plus given the topography of that piece of land, there's no reason to build a road there, so I am completely in favor of... Okay, so all in favor? All right. Hi. Great, thank you, and thank you, Tim, for your... Thanks, guys. Information, good. Okay, item 14, council discussion and possible action on a draft letter from the council to the members of the City of Burlington Council related to their approval of changes to Burlington Zoning Bylaws for the south end of Burlington, the E-LM zone. So, council... Megan signed this really early. Pardon me? Megan already signed it. I know, and I have two minor edits, but anyway. I already sent Megan my thoughts and I think a suggestion or two, but after our last meeting, we said it needed to be more factual and less emotional and backed up, and Megan did a superb job at putting it in those words. I think I said, might be a little confrontational, but I'm not gonna be the one to make that decision. And then in general, it seemed like a very good starting point, so I'm good with it the last time I saw it, which Megan, you said was your final draft, right? Yes, I just made it clear based on our conversation, David, to meet with them, and that's in the last paragraph. I think we can express our objections. I don't think it's confrontational. I think it's clear. And these are people who have visited the parks. These are internet young people. Ask them to be careful. I don't disagree. I have two tiny edits, and I will tell you that when I met with Moreau, I told him we would be sending a letter with a number of items and sort of laying out our concerns. And he wasn't surprised, and I also underscored that we were very interested in working out the differences and solutions to the issues that have been identified, the very real issues that have been identified by both South Burlington residents as well as his own residents, and that it didn't seem as if they had been heard fully. I would, I mean, just because I think you attract more, I don't know, beast with honey, because he did note to me that he thought it had gotten, and I agree, a little testy, trying to discuss these things through the media. And as well as the media, or as hard as the media works, to articulate everyone's position, it's hard not to focus on, kind of dissent or the differences and make it a little more sensational or, I don't know what the right word is, than it needed to be. So I would suggest in the second paragraph where you say we object to the fact that no Burlington official responded, I think it would suffice better to say we're disappointed that no Burlington official responded, because in reality, I called the night of, I mean, I called three people, I got through to someone in Murrow's office, but it was Monday afternoon. So I was late to the party, and one of the counselor's inbox was full, so I couldn't leave her a message. Another didn't answer the phone. No mailbox, it just did it, it rang and rang and rang and rang. So, you know, I'm not sure we gave enough notice to really stop this train. I just agree. We also couldn't end, you wrote, right? I was told by basically that he had the email. I think once a public meeting notice comes out. I think you've made that really clear in the press, and I'm just thinking this is a letter from our council, and I think it ought to be respectful and open the door to communication, and I don't know, just not be quite as demanding. I think if, if I could. So the other word I want to add is in the last paragraph and just insert as a result the South Burlington City Council respectfully requests to meet with you. What does it say now? Just request to meet with you. Okay, so Megan. I'm trying to, you know, open the door, not slam it closed. Megan, I think your points are firm and appropriate, but I think these two edits will probably get us further than the more stern language for lack of a better way. I don't think we're gonna lose a thing by changing those couple of words, and I think we may gain a little bit by doing that no matter how we, you know, strongly any of us might feel. I think, I think Helen's right that this indicates that our disappointment and that we have some respect, and I think that will work more in our favor. So I think we, I don't think we're gonna lose a thing. So I think we should make those changes and then get the letter out on which you've done a fabulous job. Great job pulling the letter together, Megan. Oh, I agree. Well, thank you. Absolutely. Yeah, and I, Kevin has a copy of the letter. Oh, Megan, that's really clear, and you made that really clear in the letter, which is so well-crafted, and I think we're, you know, in my mind with those couple of word changes, so we're not adding unnecessary fuel to the fire, I think we're good to go and let's get on with it. And thank you. I agree. Let's go. I move to approve the letter with the two amendments that chair really suggested. Second. Any further discussion? I think the letter is too long, and if it were me, I would short it to one page, and my only comment is that Burlington controls their own zoning. We don't control their zoning. To inject a little bit of reality into this, I really think we can't have any effect on that use, right? But the residents in Redbrox, who live in Burlington, will have an opportunity to participate in that conditional use permit process of the DRB, right? So I think it's a good idea to ask for a meeting. I think that's an excellent idea to voice the concerns of the Queen City Park residents, but all of the verbiage in here having to do with VSA this and VSA that has no bearing here at all. We're really talking about trying to get neighborhood concerns about things that are real, such as traffic, noise, and possible entry into the park to be addressed by the city council and the DRB in terms of that conditional use permit. Those are the hard fact things that we want to talk about. Any other type of, you know, just like, there are so many things in here that try to predict a future that you can't. It, yeah, I'm just gonna say I'll vote yes on it, right? But if it were me writing the letter, it wouldn't look like this, all right? Okay, I just, I think it was paying attention. And it's still emotional and it still contains a lot of conjecture. And that's one thing I can't support is conjecture about future conditions that you can't prove at this point in time. I said I'll still vote aye on this letter because it gets the job done, but I just want to make that point. Well, and I sort of agree because I think in our, as I understood our conversation two weeks ago, I had suggested that we make this more factual and potentially include the statute. But I was thinking that our legal council would do that and that was our direction to them in terms of going to the Burlington DRB to effectively plead our case in an appropriate manner. That this is a zoning issue or these are state statutes and you're not in compliance. And this is, these are the issues that affect South Burlington. And I believe they still will do that. And they probably will use some of your wonderful research, Megan, to make that case. So I sort of agree. We could have simply said, you know, we're unhappy. There are three big issues. We'll be before the DRB with the specifics, but these are issues that we want to sit down and talk to you about and allow our residents and potentially your residents to have a bigger say in how this impacts their quality of life. And it just is a question of when you make that case. So I mean, I will sign it as well, but I would agree. It is a little lengthy. And if I don't know if I was a Burlington councilor, if I'd read the whole thing. On the other hand, Megan interpreted what we said and made it factual and it got long. So be it. Let's go. Alrighty. It will be very useful. So I hope they agree to the meeting and I will follow up with the mayor to see if that's possible. I mean, they don't have to meet with us. Okay. So all in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Okay. Let me take that out there right back. Thank you. Alrighty. And thank you for your strong advocacy. I really do admire it. I really do. Okay. Number 15. So this is, this is gonna look a little familiar and it is a memorandum of understanding between the three cities of Burlington, South Burlington and Manuski in regards to the Burlington International Airport and the noise compatibility program and our three communities. And as you recall, it was probably two years ago and we sent a much shorter version and it was rejected by Burlington and they sent back something that we said, you know, this does nothing that we asked for. And in our meetings with Murrow over time, we've slowly pulled together some different language. Burlington's design was to sort of articulate the whereases and they were updated to reflect the current state of dates and noise maps and that kind of thing as well as other specifics. And then they articulated things that the city of Burlington would do, what the city of South Burlington shall do and what the city of Manuski shall do. At our last meeting with Murrow, we talked about this extensively. Christine Lott and myself. And we agreed that this was almost okay. There were a couple things that needed to be worked on and the mayor agreed to take that council back and to develop some language and get back with us. We're meeting, we have a date set at the end of August and hopefully at that time we might have a draft that all three councils could approve. But I thought it was important to share this with you, not for a vote tonight, but for some feedback. One of the things that the mayor is going to work on the language is something that Christine and I both pressed for, if you recall, originally we said we wanted to veto, have the veto right of any plan that was submitted if we didn't agree with it. And they wouldn't go along with that. But what the mayor is going to consider with whomever he works with in the city is that the final submittal of the plan before it's submitted to the FAA, both our city council and Winooskis would get a chance to read it because that doesn't happen now. We're on these advisory committees and the public makes comments and the city makes comments and they get posted but they don't necessarily always get incorporated. So this would give us a chance to look at what they actually heard with our recommendations and what they put together in language, requesting whatever the program might be for sound mitigation to the FAA and we would be able to say, no, time out. That's not what we said or we didn't agree to that. So that language I hope will get inserted. We did include language that makes certain and actually it was an interesting conversation with the mayor when we talked about this 10% match because the numbers are incredible what this potentially could cost to deal with housing in Winooski and some of the housing in South Burlington to do for insulation for insulation. Yeah, and a 10% match makes it, I mean, if it's $64 million a year, that's a pretty large match for the people who have been affected by the noise to then pay to get it fixed when it wasn't their noise. And he didn't, he hadn't thought about that or sort of put it in that perspective. That 10% of $64 million for five years is a huge chunk of change. It's a couple cents on everybody's tax bill. So I think we made some headway with actually educating the mayor about our perspectives and our concerns about the program and the limitations. We also talked a lot about aviation rights and he's also going to consider, we sort of have language in here but maybe upping the language with you know, if the noise really changes substantially and we need to do another noise map that those homes that get insulated the first time around at say, I don't know, 70. And then all of a sudden we have, I don't know, an extra 20 F-35s taken off and landing and they need to use after burners and all of a sudden the noise map, the 70 gets fatter, not longer and skinnier, that they might have a second bite at the apple because right now they can. So he was going to look into that and see what they could feel was language that they could find acceptable. So that's why I'm sharing this with you. If you have any thoughts about some of this language that you want to change, I do want to suggest the energy committee did request that on, let's see, where is it, which one? Where they're talking about working with organizations that do sound, I mean, do energy efficiency, they list it, I can't remember which one it is. They list a number of organizations and they wanted us to add Vermont gas because they have done a lot. And they aren't, and I'm not finding it, I have a different, maybe I put it on this. But I'll take that back to the mayor or tell him. Oh, I know, it's in second to the last thing that Burlington's going to do. Oh yeah, an M at the very end, this could include partnerships with Efficiency Vermont, the LEED program. I will suggest that they put in Vermont gas systems because they are one of the leaders in that organization. Why isn't GMP in there too? I'm not sure they were as involved in the energy efficiency when we did that program in South Burlington. It was really Vermont gas systems. Does people switch over to heat pumps, right? You know, those are electric, not gas. Uh-huh, uh-huh. Right, does it hurt to put their name in or do they have to be? No, I don't think so. This was from Keith Epstein. He just sort of noted that he was a partner that they'd been part working with that was not on the list. So if you want to include that, I don't think anyone would object. What about J, where it says hire at a minimum a full-time employee, do they mean at a minimum one full-time, and it would be better to have more than one full-time, or do they want a full-time employee to work overtime? On J for Burlington. I think they mean at least a full-time employee. At least, okay. If you would like it to say at least. Hire at least, at the least a minimum full-time employee. Any other? So does that mean that? Um, yeah. Yeah, go ahead. A funding, just want to make sure it's not, think it should be M, and then commit, just want it to be M. Is that true, is it, is K struck out, is that part of L, or is it, should it be its own letter? It sounds like it should be its own letter and K was struck by fault, right, so it should be L, M, N, O. So what should O be? So K is struck, maybe it should be L, and M should be N, and N should be O. Missing a lettering. Because if you look down from the top, E, D, all the way through I, so it's then J at the top of page two. Yeah. So it should be K, L, and then M should be advocate to maintain a ratio of FAA funding. Oh, you know, I'm sorry. Missing B, I just want to make sure it's not lost. You know, I was working like a slightly different, oh, H-I-J-K-E, oh, I see, yeah. Oh, all right, we can re-letter that. I'm sorry, I'm working on one that, I don't know, is it different, slightly different than yours, or yours? Okay, and Tim, you had another thought, no. It was the minimum full-time employee, did you get that? Yeah, I got that, at least, yeah. I agree with Megan, because I wasn't sure whether the struck K was a continuation of the L, but it looks like it's its own letter, so. So we should re-letter those. Okay, anything else, is this something, if we can get those other items included that you would be willing to sign, I mean, it's not, it doesn't give us veto power, but I think, in the words of the mayor, it's sort of, it binds us to a process and commits us to that process, understanding that he can go away, we can go away, and other councils or mayors will have, may have different ideas, so we can't make this in perpetuity, but if you have an MOU that sets a process in place, then at least, you have something to reference and maybe apply some pressure to the next set of leaders who may see the world differently. I think a new process would be if they agree to let both communities or councils review the plan before it's submitted and make final comments, I mean, they will and can submit whatever they want, but if you have a public process, it seems to me we have better grounds to really make a stink if, through all our advisory committee meetings and conversations, we said, we don't want any homes bought out, and then the plan goes in and it says, we're gonna buy out homes, we have a leg to stand on, at least we can go to the finance board or the council, Burlington council and say that isn't what any of the earlier drafts said. Yeah, it's the process, and it's not giving us veto power, it's them, but happy to have the process that may be worked following the process where they gave. Do we want to have as another directive to the city of Burlington or what they should do is to advocate, I mean, we talk about how much money is needed, do we want to spell out and we want you to advocate with the congressional delegation to get that money in the budget, the federal budget, so it can come through. I think that reinforce, I'm just writing myself notes, reinforce new, no, it's new mapping, right? New mapping when changes occur. All right, that's really good input. I will share that with both Christine and Moreau as the discussion from this council and see where it goes. Alrighty, thank you. Good work. All right, update on consensus polling application, item 16. Thanks Helen, before you is a report and Megan, you don't have this, we just put it together this afternoon, there's a report on from consensus for three successive weeks, which speaks to the questions that consensus asked and the results and then how many people are registered in the program or on the app, how many have authenticated their location and just some other data and we'll get that to you. In the meantime, Coralie just had a few updates that I thought I would read and then we'd like feedback from the council about questions that you might want to have asked as this goes forward. So remembering that this is a pilot program and that the main purpose is to work out the bugs in this app, we now have over 580 people are registered for the app. 184 have attempted verification. So it's really where the problem with the app lies in some extent with the verification issue. How many have attempted verification? 184 have attempted verification. We have moved the verification with ID further back into the app. This allows anyone to download and answer questions without having to take a picture of their license. We do ask for the information again later but do not restrict access at this point. So this is something that consensus is gonna have to deal with. The whole idea of verification was to assure that the people answering the polling questions were actually residents of South Burlington. And it seems that at some level, people are reluctant to take a picture of their driver's license for that verification. And so we've been advocating that they maybe consider a utility bill or something of that nature. But at this point, since it is a pilot program, we're not asking them to validate upfront. We can eventually restrict the questions of those who have verified with ID if we decide to go that way. Corley's been getting regular feedback from users and then turning that feedback around and sending it back to the folks at Consensus. And we currently have eight active questions and have been typically setting for 20 days as the time for responses. And so at the end here, I do wanna open the door to questions you might wanna have answered. We're advertising weekly in the other paper and daily on Front Porch Forum to continue to encourage people to sign up for the app. So I think a lot is being learned by Consensus with this pilot. I think it's meeting their needs. To some extent, if you look at the questions, it's, some of the questions are pretty easy questions, but hopefully they're beginning to make, to meet some of your needs as well. So we've always maintained it on very important questions that this would not be the only avenue that we would seek public input. I have two questions that I would love to see. One, should city administrators only consider responses collected from Consensus when verified South Burlington residents? Just to sort of get into thinking about why we're asking them to verify who they are. So should we only consider responses collected from verified South Burlington residents via the Consensus app? Do you understand that question? Yeah. Yeah. And then the other one is, how much do you want a community pool at Veterans Memorial? A lot? Okay. Yeah, no, no, no. For a amount. That's a good question. How much do you want a community pool at? Well, I think in order to respect to the pool, we should probably find out how much they value an indoor recreation facility because that's gonna come, that's ahead of the pool. I mean, the pool is wonderful but it's a little pie in the sky right now. I'd like to get to be regionally supported. So I hear you, Dave. I'm all for recreation space. I think we should ask, I think we need to find out some measure about the recreation facility. Would you guys mind shooting this email directly to Corley? Would you shoot her an email with the question you'd like to ask? Actually, any of you, would you shoot questions? It would be a leading question towards. She might have to refine it a little bit. Yeah, I'm not sure. I want to be the one. You mean other than being overwhelmingly, strongly and significantly and nothing else? Pretty much. You know, I mean, the phones will have GPSs, right? So if you don't want to identify yourself, the consensus could like take a sampling of your location at like midnight or two in the morning. And then if it's always in South Burlington, you gotta assume the person's sleeping there and they're probably a resident. That's just another. There might be more controversy. Well, no, I mean, but there's a ton of apps that your Google knows your location all the time, right? You're just asking is that there's this circle in Vermont. Are you somewhere in here? Most of the time, at dinner time and you know, breakfast time, night time, whatever it is. I mean, that's another way to at least show that you're a resident. I would be reluctant to put in my driver's license in. I think there's so much in the press today about not sharing your personal information unless it's required by a law or something like that. I think people look at this and say, I'm not dealing with that and they're done. Would you take a photograph of a utility bill like a GMT bill? Yeah, probably, but not a driver's license that has your picture and your birth date and all that crap on it. Just the address, maybe, the address. Yeah, it could be the address of your utility bill comes online or like Vermont gas, I never see it. They just take it out of the bank every month. I've never looked at anything. I have no idea what they send me. Well, they just say it looks reasonable. They still send you a utility bill. I think they should send you something. Not anymore. It's recent. It's relatively recent. How about garbage? Do you get a bill for garbage? Once a year. It's all you need. You don't create much. I paid them once for the whole year, and I guess, well, discount done with it. I don't have to think about it again. So that's some other needs. But anyway, that point was a driver's license is probably too invasive for an awful lot of people. But let me ask another question. We want to ask about a rec facility. Appropriately, do we ask about the importance of preserving undeveloped land? I mean, is that something we want to know? We already have, but it was formatted. Didn't we ask that? There was a question similar to that, but the answers were so long that many people can't see it on the app. So the app has some issues. Yeah, so the answer is cut off the majority of the rest. I think we need to revise that question and reframe it and ask it again. So would you have some thoughts on that? Can you send those over? So I have a question on, I think it's on Front Porch Forum. And I'm not sure whether, I guess it's an advertisement for consensus. But it asks the question about the F-35s, I think. And do they affect you or something? And it just seems, I mean, I've gotten some feedback. Is that a real question? Cause then I go to the app and it's not on there. Or is it an example of, this is the kind of information you could find. But as I recall, the way it's worded on the Front Porch Forum is, this is a question that consensus is asking. Has anyone ever seen that, anyone else seen that? I saw that and it was asking about F-35 noise, but the F-35s aren't really here yet. So I didn't understand who was asking that question or if it was in consensus. And it's not on consensus. So I didn't know if it was an example or what. So I think the advertisement maybe to get people to sign up maybe shouldn't be a question that one, you can't answer because the F-35s aren't here yet. And two, it's not a question you're answering. You're asking. This is what people see in consensus and you can see where it cut off the three answers. So they can't even respond accurately. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Yeah. Because it's nonsensical and how you ask the question on mobile apps. But that's being worked out, it's a pilot. I mean, you could certainly tell Coralie if she wants to use that as an example, then say consensus in the future could ask questions such as. We'll confirm that that's what it is. Yeah. Yeah, people thought it's just someone asking this on front porch form. So I just think we have to be careful about that. Some residents have raised concerns about us defining policy or setting policy based on this but I love feedback and I just see this as another method to take a pulse of the community. So I do have questions about validity of responses because you get an activist group that gets 13 devices and if they don't have to verify who they are, they're just going to try to sway. So it's important that we know who the responses are from but that doesn't mean we should stop this pilot project by any means. I presume they have a way to eliminate people from answering more than once? Supposedly. I guess so. I mean, if somebody's got two or three emails then they can probably answer two or three times and I can't see how they block that. You don't verify who you are. If you skip verification, you have like 13 different devices like many people do and there's ways to mask your MAC address. That's all I'm asking. You may not, maybe it's a personless question but I can think of surveys that I've answered multiple times because there was no way, you know, is this your favorite something that I had to do with cars or whatever. You just do it and then you wait 10, you do it again and again and again and again. I do all my own course evaluations on myself so it's not like good reviews. No wonder you get all those awards. Good. Good. Megan, do you have any comments on consensus polling? I'm going to go for two weeks because I got busy with other things so I think it's really to put in my picture of my driver's license. So I think it's also had to do with technology, we know that kind of the frame. So is that it for consensus? Do you have what you need, Kevin? Yep. Okay. Item 17, update from council members on committee assignments. Tom, do you have a committee assignment? Sure, a few. So I know I said I was not going to be chair of the Green Mountain Transit Board but after speaking with other Green Mountain Transit commissioners whose opinion I respect and talking to the board, I did sign up and it was re-elected but I said I would only do it for six months but I'm resigning as chair December 31st but I am still chair as the Green Mountain Transit Board and happy to do it. It's my favorite board. Sorry guys, it's just they have free coffee but it meets at the right time. So they're my favorite board. They have a pool too. Yeah. I can get more writers. They have an Uber pool. An Uber pool, right. Other than that, GMT was in the press and I don't know if you read the articles or not but we did take an action last Monday. It was unanimous by the board after meeting for two hours in the executive session and we have put our general manager on paid administrative leave while we conduct an investigation and it's into a personnel matter. It does nothing to do with finances. I updated Kevin the day of so I hope that you all feel that you're adequately informed and that's as much information as I can share at this time. Okay. TDR committee has not met. Michael's trying to find a time that's good for everybody. There's a lot of travel going on right now for vacations so there's not a date set for the next meeting. Okay. Megan, do you have any IZ Open Space update? Airport commission meets Wednesday so I don't have anything new to report. We haven't had a channel 17 meeting but we certainly, I've been kept up to date with some of the conversations at the federal level and they, the, what is it, the FCC? I don't know, I can't remember what it is but that controls all the telecommunications. They are really pushing, I guess it's the Trump administration to really back down on the original agreements that communities had or states had with, you know, the direct TV or Comcast or those kinds of cable systems to the, in return for using the public polls to get their goods to all the different houses, they had agreed to support this public access and they, the Trump administration is saying, well, you know, maybe they don't need to contribute quite as much which really puts all the public access organizations throughout the country in a pickle if that money is really pulled away and particularly I think at a time when, you know, democracy is needing a shot in the arm to get, you know, information out to the public that is not related to any kind of corporate entity, whether it's, you know, public TV or whatever. This is the community's ability to speak out and participate in democracy. So that's problematic but, you know, we have good people working on it, it just is always disappointing when something that was agreed upon in good faith and continues to be important to their livelihood is just someone decides they shouldn't, they need to make more money, I guess, they shouldn't. More than they're already making. Yes. That, you know, it's not a fair shake anymore. So that's kind of the bad news. I'll keep you updated, you know, and as an organization, we're working to raise money and working with the state and to see what the next steps are to keep this alive. All right, any other committees? No. The only thing I probably add is, I can't remember if we'd met as the Dorset Park Skating Association, the rink boards, you know, we're hoping to be underway before long. There were a couple of little glitches, hangups and needs as is always the case. But I think you may know more than I do at this point. I don't know. It's very active. Yeah, and that's just, it's summer, it's behind. As soon as that's in place, I think we're ready to go. So hopefully construction be able to start, you know, with it before. Maybe before Labor Day, which would be great. Okay. Is there any other business? Yes, we have a, John, why don't you come up to the, oh, we don't have a mic for you, but speak up, young man. You have a good speaking voice. He told me he had nothing better to do this evening until he told me come and watch this in action. Isn't that exactly, that's cool, right? Nice. Well, I'm learning a lot, I'm grateful for that. Please identify yourself for the. Thank you. There's four self-proclaimed point-taping which possibly all over South Burlington now. And I think it's a model for grassroots empowerment of arts. And I know that when we return in January to Montpelier, the South Burlington Legislature are looking at doing some kind of resolution honoring this kind of grassroots effort. And I think it would be great if the city council could do that as well. Because other, you know, and maybe you should leave the room, Tim, I don't know, but when I met Katie, she was saying now, Williston's talking to her, Burlington's talking to her, it's like this model of inviting people to just make art all over our community blossom, and it's happening. Every time I drive somewhere and I see new power box, I'm just delighted. And everyone's buying into it, and it's just giving other joy. And so, I don't know if there's some way that you could all consider doing a resolution. Well, we did do a resolution that honored her and identified July 1st as Katie O'Brien did. Then I apologize. Thank you for that resolution. Because it is spectacular. Well, you know what you could do is I think we should do a GoFundMe effort. I don't know how to do that, to organize it, to buy the paints for Katie to do even more. She apparently applied for a grant with our art committee, and they denied her, and they didn't like her ideas. And I said, huh, we appoint those people. Well, we applied for a CSWD local color, paint donation, which that's just being submitted now. Because they just developed a policy for that. So. But a GoFundMe, you might go. That would help. Raise some money to. Well, Helen, I'll borrow the city's resolution to adapt it for our state. Great. So I will take the good work you've done, and I'm sorry I didn't know that. And then on June 8th, I did go and watch our city work in such a beautiful way to the O'Dell apartments. And Brett Leonard from Parks and Recs was the cook. And Kelly Kendall, our city librarian, was there with the little library bus, and our police department was there. And they were probably, I don't know, 75 to 100 residents. Oh, really? Wow. They're all coming together, and many of them didn't know each other. Really? They don't really come out and talk, you know, and it was just great to see all the different parts of our city working together. What did they have a cookout? Yeah, yeah. There was hamburgers, and then there were hot dogs, but because it wasn't beef, no, it wasn't pork and the hot dogs, because they wanted to make sure that they were culturally sensitive to all the different religious affiliations about not eating pork and stuff. And it was just, and there were games being played and stuff, and it was very special to see that everybody out, having a good time, all the families. Well, that certainly is an area for programming that the Rec and Parks Department have identified as a shortfall in our ability to fund more of those activities. So that's a housing congregation of people that is ripe for more programming to meet some of their... And Champlain Housing Trust organized it. They also did it in Dorset Apartments earlier about a week before, so they're being very intentional of all parts kind of working together to build community. Good, all right. Well, I'm sorry I didn't know about the resolution, but I'm sure thrilled about this artwork. Yes, so am I. And if any of you haven't been to Dorset Park, or Veterans Memorial Park, three sides of the bathroom building, I don't know what you call it. It's not a bathhouse, it's a bathroom house, have been decorated, and it's fabulous. It's so fun, so. How many dollars worth of paint do you need to do this? About 20 bucks, I got some through this right now. You're gonna start to go fund me, I'll start it. I was, it's an online thing. Yeah, but how many dollars will it be to me? Yeah, I'll have to go back and assess what the use of this is. I mean, if it's a couple hundred dollars worth of paint, and it's for the benefit of South Burlington, we probably, we should be able to find a couple hundred bucks somewhere and buy the paint. Mr. Crawford. I don't think we have to go to go fund me for something like that. Mr. Crawford makes donations when he comes across somebody painting. What? Well, I think if you formalize it with go fund me, these people make thousands of dollars. I mean, you could really pay for the program and then some. I'll have to ask my wife what the current usage rate is and how it's left, and how many more boxes to go to understand that, so. Yeah. Okay, thank you. There's no other business? Oh, sorry, excuse me. So there were two things in the warrants. One was an advisory agreement with Hickok and Boardman. Do you know what that was? For $5,500? How much was it? 5,500? So that's our human resources. The annual contract with Hickok and Boardman, they come in to actually do training for us here, and they actually put on programs that they sponsor as well that we can go to, and are a resource for us to contact them with different human resources. We've had that probably about three years that have been very valuable. And there was a victim payment? Yes. If it's personal, I don't know about it, but. It is personal, it's part of the CJC, and it's basically a pastor from the state. Okay, okay. So it comes through us as a fiduciary, but it's a state-run program. Yeah, thanks. All right. Well, good. Motion to adjourn? Oh, you have more stuff? Oh, you're moving. Second. Okay. Question, do we have a steering committee meeting? Is that next Wednesday? Is that what we've got? No. What next do we have on the 24th? The 24th is the meeting between Helen and Elizabeth and David. It's the leadership meeting. I just wasn't clear as to whether we were all supposed to be involved with that. No, it was not steering. All righty, well thank you very much. Oh, all in favor? Aye. Great. Thank you. Good meeting. Excellent. Summer time. Enjoy your trip. Good to see you. How are you? Good. Thank you very much. I'm taking my chocolate milk, and I'm going. Goodbye, everybody. Goodbye. Thank you for joining, and I hope it worked out okay. I'm surprised my phone lasted that long. I'm surprised my phone lasted that long. It did. It did. I hope so. I hope so. We did have a safe way for it to work. Register, please. Register. Oh, so that did.