 Today's episode of the Bitcoin Show is brought to you by USGoldCoins.com, 1-800-HOTCOIN, and MEZZIGRILL, MEZZIGRILL.com, and tradehill.com, 10% off your fees for life with referral code THR141, and mountgox.com. Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Bitcoin Show, Episode 22. I'm Bruce Wagner. This is Manny Manna. And today we have a very special guest from tradehill.com, as you probably already know, Jared Kenna, on Skype here live via Skype, live from Chile. Hey, Jared, how you doing? I'm doing good. Thanks, Bruce. Good. You look good. You sound good. And what we're going to talk about today is trade...well, several things about tradehill. First, the announcements that are...well, all of the announcements. But one of them is that I'm excited about, is instant by an instant sell, because... Finally, back up. It's back. Right? Exactly. Exactly. We had to rework a few things. We changed the way a lot of things work internally, and we just wanted to test it thoroughly and make sure it would be compatible. So we're completely done testing. It's live, and it's working good. Okay. I mean, I was getting some emails and saying, you know, what's going on with tradehill, instant buy is down, because they thought that that meant they couldn't buy, and I explained to them, no, you just put in a bid the normal way. But I was curious, too, because I didn't really understand why did you have to take instant buy and sell down? Honestly, I can't give you the technical reasons, because I don't really deal with that. I could get an answer from those guys and get back to you. But basically, the way I understand it, when they were reworking things with the API and how it communicates with the other systems, they just had to make some modifications with how it integrated, and you change one thing and it can affect everything. Oh, okay. I thought maybe it had something to do with the Mt. Gox hack, and it was a security thing, but it wasn't related to that at all. No, no, no. Oh, okay. It was basically the way I understand it, there was a lot of optimization going on and a lot of changes in code, and I think it was more precaution with a lot of testing. Because with Bitcoin, there's not a lot of forgiveness, I mean, if you make a mistake, you're done. Yeah, it's a cash dispenser machine. You really have to test it and make sure everything's 100% physical. Especially for a feature like that, you know, that law that people are going to use. Live instant buy, instant sell, no limits, withdraw everything, yeah, that's risky. So it was just normal routine debugging and processes to make sure that everything is rock solid. Because it just was the timing of it, that it went down about the same time as Mt. Gox. I assume that it had something to do with the Mt. Gox hack, but because you actually did some other things too, right? Didn't you lock down any accounts that had matching addresses and forced them to change their passwords? Right, right. I mean, the first thing we did when we heard about the Mt. Gox hack was freeze all the accounts, and then we took the entire site down for roughly 12 hours, and we sent out messages and we said, change all your passwords, especially if you had the same one. I mean, it's never a good idea to use the same login information on two sites because we saw a lot of attempts on the, anyone that was on the Mt. Gox list, essentially they tried those emails on the site. We also initiated a feature that would disable accounts after a certain amount of tries. So we saw a lot of accounts that got locked out because they were on both lists and they tried to get in. In the end, we only had one account hacked out of the entire thing, and I spoke with the gentleman, and essentially he used the same exact email and the same exact password on Mt. Gox and on Trade Hill, and he also used an extremely simple password, which was cracked on Mt. Gox, so that let him just walk right into his Trade Hill account, and unfortunately it was hacked, I think, three days before we implemented the two-factor authentication. Wow. So, had it happened a couple days later, he probably would have been fine, despite even having a vulnerable password. Yeah, that's too bad. Yeah, we just did, I mean, I rant about that, too, all the time, that you have to use a long, secure, unique password that's not dictionary words, not words that are names of places or things, and not birth dates and all those obvious things, addresses and things that people usually use. In fact, we just did a how-to tutorial video yesterday teaching people how to do password management. It's really Internet Basics 101 for every website, but it's not just spreadsheets, documents and emails we're talking about anymore. Now we're talking about money, because Bitcoin is money. So we did a whole how-to video teaching people how to do password management and come up with a really, really easy way and free way to have a unique password for absolutely everything you use. So that's important and good. So we got instant by instant sales back, we've got the Euro now, you're dealing with Euro as its own currency without having to convert it into dollars. Is that right? Exactly, and there's some pros and cons to that. I mean, the way Mt. Gox does it, they take SIPA transfers and then they'll change that to the dollar. So it increases the liquidity on their dollar market, which is great. I mean, it's great if you want to buy with dollars. Unfortunately, there is no Euro market with them. So we're taking a little bit of a risk, we're creating that Euro market. And hopefully, definitely it will be cheaper for Europeans to purchase Bitcoins because they won't have to convert it to dollars in back. But we're going to need some people to throw some money in there to kickstart it. And it's looking good. So far we've got, I don't know, $20,000, $30,000 in the first hour or two. So I believe this is not going to be a problem at all. Euro, I mean, 20,000, 30,000 euros probably, or dollars worth of euros. So in the future, we may offer the option to transfer between dollars and euros on the exchange. But initially, we're just going to do it this way. And I think it's really important that Bitcoin has a Euro market because we talk about being a decentralized currency with, you know, multiple exchanges and everything else. I don't think we should tie ourselves to the dollar. No, absolutely not. It's a global currency. We're not, we're beyond the United States. Even you guys are not even in the United States here in Chile. But so like the other exchanges, like you were mentioning, Mt. Gox, if I'm in Europe and I put euros in, if I'm in Germany or something, I put euros in, then it gets converted to US dollars, what, by Mt. Gox or by the bank in the wire transfer process? I'm not 100 percent sure. I honestly, I've never deposited euros in Mt. Gox, so I'm not sure. But it's probably in the bank. That would probably be how they do it. Well, the banks are going to charge you their fees going in and then charge your fees coming back out. Exactly. Exactly. And we and we accept wire transfers from anywhere in the world into USD. So I mean, I've received wire transfers from all over and, you know, you lose a little bit of money when you do that, which is unfortunate. I mean, if we can offer every currency, but at this point in time, it's not possible to have every single currency. I mean, there's countries where Bitcoin is not used at all. There's countries where it's, you know, a few people using it. We actually have enough for a little liquidity down here in Chile. And we actually have a market down here in Chile, which might be surprising to some people. But we tried to start one up in Peru, and there's just not the demand in Peru there is. So you're going to see, I mean, there's there's probably at least 10, 15, 20 currencies that are probably probably have enough volume already. How many? So I would say somewhere between 10 and 20, between 10 and 20. So like, is there I don't know if you have like any analysis about that. But like, because like you said, if you're in Peru or Chile or whatever, and you have to convert everything to US dollars to put it into that market, and then you got to convert everything back. There's the cost of doing that versus the cost of lack of liquidity. And you might be overpaying when you buy or under receiving when you sell. So is there some way that someone can easily figure out which is a better approach? Well, I think I think one thing that we're really going to see is going to solve it is you're going to have people doing cross currency arbitrage and and you also see it on cross exchange arbitrage with trade Hillmelgox. So so basically it's going to provide an option for someone to profit. And by doing that, they'll keep the prices a little more consistent, a little bit more. So you won't you won't see the big gap. You know, right now, you know, you can buy you can buy a bitcoin for five thousand Chilean pesos, which is the equivalent of ten dollars. And then you can sell that bitcoin in the United States for fourteen dollars. So at times like, I mean, like right now it's possible to make a lot of money by moving by moving currency between the other countries. But as more professional traders see this, they're going to be doing it. So as that happens, it'll close the gap. I mean, basically, the gap is what creates the profit. So it's so they do all that through API's. There's actually a site that tracks the exchanges and the different currencies and lets you know any discrepancies. And if you're able to do it fast enough, you can usually get in while that window is still open, because, you know, almost every market is volatile. So that's going to be changing constantly throughout the day. It seems like that should be automated. Like there must be somebody creating automated tools that will do that arbitrage for them. And why aren't why aren't there a dozen people doing that already? There is a lot. Sounds like a huge opportunity to make a lot of money, which is actually good, which I wasn't so busy. I'd be taking advantage of myself. I can see the opportunity. But honestly, I don't really do any trading. It's good. Don't you think it's good for the for the all the markets in general? If this if this for these automated arbitrage, whatever they call them arbitration bots, isn't that good for all the markets to keep them all very equal? Yeah, yeah, I mean, it is it is exactly. And you're going to you're going to at times you're going to see them, you know, there's going to be gaps. There's going to be a difference. But in general, yeah, they do keep them pretty close. It is good for it. So there's a business opportunity for you guys. If you're you coders out there that we're looking for some business opportunity to make money in Bitcoin, create a create a trading bot on trade hills so that you can keep all the currencies even. And that actually is good for the Bitcoin economy and good for all the markets stability so that people don't have to convert it to another currency. They can just deal with the market in their own currency. And it helps everybody and you make some money in the process. So it sounds like a win, win, win. Exactly, exactly. So how do I buy two landpestals? So we're going to look at other options regarding that, too. We might be able to do something like lower the fees for the for the new markets, something like that, which would provide more incentive to kickstart them, you know, which is also going to be good because it's going to help spread Bitcoin. Another benefit is a lot of people don't have the options to buy Bitcoin in these countries. And and it's easy to transfer, you know, a thousand euros or a thousand dollars to the United States if you want to pay forty or fifty dollars or whatever and then pay for the exchange. But if you want to buy, you know, twenty dollars with the Bitcoin and you live somewhere in South America, you're not going to be able to do that. Right. OK. So all right. So we've got the euro in the Eurozone native currency and you're adding the Great Britain, Great Britain Pound, the UK, British Sterling as well. Right. Real soon now. Right. Right. It's it's in the pipeline. I don't want to say when it's going to be available because I don't want to be wrong on that. But RSN, as we say, real soon. Exactly. Exactly. You know, it could come out tomorrow or it might be a little bit away. But we're just about closed on that one. Cool. That's awesome, too, for those Brits out there that rejected the euro. And they certainly didn't want the US dollar. That's cool. So then you'll be able to they'll be able to do ultimately once that's set up, they'll be able to do the same thing. They can put it into the to the British Pound market and directly without converting as well. Exactly. Exactly. Cool. The Brits will like that. That's great. OK. But what we the big news we want to talk about today is your new two factor authentication. And this is all the rage ever since the Mt. Gox hack, you know, obviously we're all thinking the same thing. We're all reading the same stuff and that we're all exposed to the same vulnerabilities. Everybody's talking to factor authentication and everybody has a different approach. But you guys have an approach that you have like five different methods. Is it right? Right. Five different methods for five. So I mean, one of them is a physical like USB device. But then there are lots of others that are absolutely free that are just with all you need is any telephone or a telephone with text messaging or a smartphone with a free app. Am I right? Exactly. OK. So what we want to do is that we're going to actually demonstrate this. And I've so I got my laptop on my lap here. I'm not always looking at the chat room. But here I am. Can you see my chat room? I mean, my chat room. You see my laptop. I'm logged into my trade Hill account. As you can see, I'm not going to show you how much money I have because I don't have any money. But but let's see what I'm going to do. OK, so what I do is I go up here to the top right and I'm going to click on my email address. By the way, is there another way to get to that settings? Or is it to get to the profile? Yeah, the profile. No, just click on the email. OK. So it doesn't say profile, but you just click on your own email address where it says welcome and your email address in green. That takes you to your profile. So that's how I get there. And as you can see, there's my email address and my referral program info. When you keep scrolling down where that's where you would change your password. Keep on going down. You got API access if you're going to use your own software and so on. But here's the next two things are really cool. Two factor authentication. And I have done this before, so I know what I'm doing now, but it's really easy. Watch this. So I just click that check mark and that's it. I'm done. No, almost done. All right. So then the next thing is Captcha enabled, which is almost as exciting. I can uncheck that. And I think didn't we talk about this? I don't know. Somebody suggest I don't I don't know if I suggested it. Somebody suggested this and they did it right away while we were talking about it. So he, Jared said, let me call the guy and then he fixed it. So now you can turn off that irritating image. I call them squiggly letters when you log in. And if you're going to turn on two factor authentication, you certainly don't need to capture. Absolutely. That's just obviously hate those things. Yeah, hate those things. OK, so we turned on two factor authentication. We turned off Captcha enabled. I hit update services and now I'm done. Your services have been updated. Well, almost done. All right. So now my services have been updated. But in order for it to really take effect, I have to go up here to the top right corner, you know, click log out and then click log in again. Tell me if I make any mistakes. OK, the capture is still there, but Jared tells me I can ignore it because I turned that off. Is it true? Let's try it. I'm going to hit log in without typing anything in. He's right. Wow. Oh, my gosh. OK, so even though it asks me for a capture, I don't have to type it in. That's brilliant. OK, now here's where I'm going to have to find out what is my phone number. I don't even know. You know, with Google Voice, the cool thing about it is you don't even need your own number. Let me find it. OK, here it is. Everybody has my number in the whole world anyway, so I don't care. I wonder if I have to put parentheses. No, I'm putting that. Is this this is only for the U.S. to use this method? Is that right? U.S. customers actually using it down here in Chile. Oh, so you can put it any. Oh, what am I saying? Of course, the first option is the country. Let's drop down. Oh, my gosh, you can pick from any country. I just noticed the plus one, but that's because I'm already on the United States, it knows. So it's got the plus one already because I selected the United States. I put in my phone number. Now once phone type, I'm going to tell it it's not a landline, it's a mobile phone. And then it says call me or text me. So I'm going to hit text me. I don't really want to talk right now. Now it's apparently... OK, look, here's my phone. Let me see if I can bring it over here. If you can switch to that camera. Well, anyway, you can trust me, I got a text message instantly. There it is. Well, anyway, you know what a text message looks like. There's a text message. And what it says is Duo verification code 3564. Don't tell anybody. This is secret. 3564 and then I touch verify. Can you see that on my screen? OK. All right. And then you don't see it on my screen. OK, I entered the number and I clicked verify. And then I click continue. OK, switch over. There we go. Now you can see my screen. OK, so I clicked continue. And now the next screen comes up and it says, install Duo Mobile. Now Duo Mobile is the actual app that is designed to do this two-factor authentication, right? And it's limited. It only works on Apple, Android, Palm, BlackBerry, Windows, Mobile. J2ME. And what? J2ME. J2ME. Yeah, that's all. All right. So it says, if you're using another type of phone, skip this step. Visit the installation link. OK, so I'm going to say, text me the installation link. And now it's going to send me a text message. Another text message. Let's see if I can. Well, once again, you know what a text message looks like, but there it is. OK, so let's see. Text me the, didn't get it yet. It's supposed to be, you can also install it by visiting this link. Install the application. Oh, it's waiting. It's the browser. Waiting for API. There it is. There's my text. I don't know if you can see that. But there's the text message. OK, now switch back to my screen. And I'm going to touch the link. Let's see. OK, touch the link on my phone, and it will actually take me in the phone's browser to the market. It says, complete this action using the market. And it's basically going to allow you to install the application. Exactly. It takes me directly to the correct application in the market. And you can see right here that this is what it's taking me to in the typical Android market, the typical Android market screen. And it's an app called Duo Mobile. So I'm just going to touch that button. It says, install free. I say, OK, to accept permissions. Your item will be downloaded. And here it comes. It's downloading. So let's see. You want to see what it looks like when it's downloaded? Right there. Are you there, Jared? Oh, yeah, there you are. OK, cool. All right, see that? Can you show that? That's the app. Here we go. Is it finished? I can't see. Oh, yeah, it's already finished. OK, so installed successfully. Tap the screen. OK, see, there's my show my phone there. We're jumping back and forth, camera crazy here. That's the app. So literally, all I did was touch the link. And the link took me to the typical Android market thing. And I said, touched free. I touched install. And then it said downloading. Then it said install. Then that's it. It says Duo Mobile. OK, so that's the app. And it's got two tabs. It's got pass codes and Duo Push. But anyway, I'm going to go back to my screen and follow these instructions. That was step one, was that link. And then step two is install the application. I already did that. So I click Continue. Now it says, activate the application. So there's a step here where you have to activate the application, which is going to tell this application that it's owned by me. All right, so I clicked the Text Me the Activation link. And once again, I got the activation key as a text message. You know what a text message looks like. I don't know. It's a little blurry. But anyway, you get the idea. All right, so I'm going to touch that link. Once again, it's going to open that link. Now this time it says, complete the action of opening that link, that URL, by browser or with Duo Mobile. So I'm going to take a chance and assume that it wants me to activate it by opening that link in Duo Mobile. And now you can see it just says on my screen activating Duo Mobile. It's a little glare there. See, it's just the normal Android message. It says activating Duo Mobile. And all this stuff is a one time only process, right, Jared? Right, that's correct. This is just authenticating the phone, basically making sure that they're connected to each other, integrated. OK, so that's what the app looks like. And again, it's got two tabs. Now on the main tab, it's called Pass Codes. And it's got a Generate Pass Code button. There's another tab called Duo Push. And it just says, waiting, I think it says here, no request to approve. All right, so back to my screen. This is so much fun. All right, it's just one time though. And what's really cool is it's all free. And I didn't have to buy anything or mail anything or whatever. Number two, verify action. So it won't be waiting weeks for a device. It says here, after activating your application, which I already did, generate a passcode and type it below. Oh, OK, so I see there's a button here, once again, on the main passcodes page of my app. And it says generate passcode. So I simply just tap that button and it gives me that number, a six digit number. And so I'm going to type that in the box. And that's what it's asking for. 364098, don't tell anybody. All right, so I click verify. And then I've got continue to log in. That's it. And I'm done. So now I'm on the login screen. So this is what I'm going to see every time I log in. And I get the choice to do a dual push, phone call, or passcode. Now, the way I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong, Jared, but dual push is where it will actually send a message. They call it push because the software is going to send a message right to my phone. Phone call is exactly what it sounds like. The computer is actually going to call my phone number. And that would work even with a landline because it calls. By the way, I did this yesterday. And I tried the phone call thing. And what it did, it told me what number to press on the screen. And then when the phone rang, it said press the number on your screen. So you only have to press one digit. But that's it. All I had to do was press one digit. And so you can do that with any, even an old landline. If you're up in the hills in Honduras, you can still do that. And then passcode is the one where I just showed you, where you just generate passcode and it's a six digit number and it goes there. So the cool thing about this is dual push, I'm going to show you in a second, it's just the coolest. And it defaults to that. A phone call will work if you don't have anything but a phone. If it's just an old landline or whatever. Passcode will work if your phone, for some reason, your phone didn't have internet access. The app could still generate a passcode. As long as you had internet access to get to the site, your phone wouldn't need to have internet access. But I'm going to demonstrate the dual push because that's just the coolest thing and that's the default. So when I log in, from now on, every time I log into my account, it's defaulted to dual push. Now I'm going to show you the phone. OK, I don't know how well you can see it. I'm going to try and hold it really closely like that. Can you see that clearly? OK. Now I'm just, literally, at the moment I say it, I'm going to tap Log In. I'm going to tap Show the Phone, Show the Phone Head. OK, bring the phone live. Ready? There. OK, now I'm going to touch Log In. Boom. It vibrated. I don't know if you saw that. Let me show you the message. It shows right here on the notification bar you see that message, which says dual push mobile, dual notification recorded. So literally, I just touch it and this is what comes up. That's my favorite part, that it gives you an option to deny it or allow it. And it tells you who it is, their IP. Log In request, it's pretty awesome. Yeah, it tells you the city, the state, their IP address. So you know if your ex is trying to get into your account. You know exactly who it is. All right, now when I actually press Approve, show my screen on the laptop there. Now I'm going to tell you when. OK, this is what you see on the screen, right? Now when I touch Approve, watch this. I'm going to touch Approve in 3, 2, 1. I just touched Approve. And as you can see, instantly it says success is your logged in. And I didn't press anything. I didn't touch any keys. That's the coolest part right there. Yeah, it's just so cool. I touched the green Approve and boom, I'm in. I didn't have to press any more buttons. It's just so cool. And we tried this the other day and we tried, I'm going to log out and do it again to show you. So we did this the other day and we said deny. And then when you hit deny, it asks you why. Do you suspect a fraudulent attempt or whatever, fraud? Or is it a mistake or cancel? It gives you the choice. And when it's fraud, Jared and Trady he'll know about it immediately. Exactly, exactly. We did it, right? So when we hit I suspect fraud, boom. Jared gets a notification on his screen and an email saying a fraud attempt. And what are you going to do about it, Jared? Are you going to hunt down my ex? I'm sorry, I'm sorry. You cut out the. I was saying like, if it notifies me, somebody's trying to hack into my account and it's like, whoa, what is this? I didn't try to log into Trade Hill. And I recognize the IP address is my ex. So and I hit fraud. And then you get the notification. What do you do about it? Are you going to hunt down my ex? Punish them? Is that the extra fee for that one, Bruce? An extra fee? Only if they're in Chile. No, but one thing's for sure, they won't get into the account. So that's a good thing. So let's show my screen. I'm going to do it again. This is so cool. I don't know why I think this is so cool because it's free and it's instantaneous. Well, nearly instantaneous. OK, so you see, there's my login ID, my password. I'm going to skip the capture because I turned that off. Thank you, God. And there it is, login using. I'm going to hit dual push. And literally, I touch login. And then you can see, wait, there, touch login. And then you can see the phone immediately gets this notification on the dropdown. I have to touch the notification on the dropdown. Then it says loading. And there it is, boom, login request. That is so cool. Now watch, when I hit deny, if you can see this, can you see that? It says suspected fraud, or it was a mistake or cancel. So of course, I think it seems fraudulent. I'm going to touch, it seems fraudulent reporting. And it was just reported. Now show my screen. It says right there already. By the time I touched it, I didn't touch anything else on the computer. It says login request reported as fraudulent. In other words, you're going to jail, buddy. And did you get a message, Jared? Let's see here, let me hear you. It's actually, you're not in your inbox, right? The email. You didn't know there was going to be a fraud attempt. Yeah, let's see. Is your IP address 7.1.125.something else that I'm going to say on the air? Must be. That's it. You know what's crazy is that banks don't even have this yet. Banks don't have it. I'm probably going to get a message from the coders again in about 30 seconds saying, ask me for screwing around if this is legit fraud attempt. This is the same thing that happened last time we did this. Did I get you into trouble the other day? Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah, they're going to go, uh-oh. What is this? Somebody's pulling the fire alarm again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're going to see the only one TV and know it's you, Bruce. They're going, oh boy, it's him. Yeah, I'm not going to have any protection. They're going, wow, he's cry's wolf every day. There's another fraud attempt, yeah. Exactly, exactly. Wow, that is just so cool. Now, OK, now I want to do the other one. All right, so show my screen, Ed. This is, OK, I log in. I put in my login ID and password. I'm probably more excited about this than you are, Jared. OK, so I log in with my login ID and password. You see that? I selected the second one, phone call. This is just so cool. Watch this. OK, I hit phone call and watch what happens. Let's see. You see that? It's vibrating. I have it on silent, but I'm going to answer. I'm going to just touch answer. We're not a speaker, maybe. Otherwise, press 6 on your phone to log Indiana. Did you hear that? So it said, if you did not initiate this call, press 8 to report it as fraud. Otherwise, press 6. Thank you. Goodbye. And she's so polite about it. I can't get over that. Well, they're in Indiana. You know they're polite in India. But now look, I'm on. I didn't have to touch anything. That's it. She just called me. The greatest part about that is you're not limiting access to anybody who would have access to Bitcoins in the first place, because almost everybody has a landline or a way to receive a text message or something like that, and that's pretty cool. That's a really important point. You know, I have a lot of followers on Twitter who actually are in the visually impaired community. And they are going to love that voice system. Oh, absolutely. Because they don't have to mess with a phone and an app and even a keyboard. I mean, all they have to be able to do is work at, you know, what is it, a 10-digit phone. So literally, they can answer the phone voice and press six or eight. Hopefully, they press the right key. But, you know. They have some system. Yeah, of course, they know how to do that. But that just makes it so easy. You literally can be out in the boondocks with just rotary landline service. As long as you can get on the internet itself, you don't need any kind of a fancy phone. As long as your phone is tied to that. I wonder if it'll work with Google Voice. We're going to have to try that later. It should work with Google Voice. You know, it should, right? Because what would be so sweet is if, yeah, if it works with a landline, then of course it should work with Google Voice. Yeah, if it's Google Voice, it's just a forwarding number. And you know what's cool about that, Jared? You might not have thought of this. But with Google Voice, I can put my Google Voice number in and I can program it to ring on eight different phones. My cottage up in Northern Michigan and my summer house and, you know, as if I had these things and my mobile phone on my yacht and all my different cell phones and everybody else. So I can actually take the call and verify it. Although that's kind of insecure, I suppose, if I, anybody can answer the phone and verify it. But you can actually control it. In Google Voice, the point is you can control where your phone rings. So if I'm on vacation in the mountains or something and that's all I have is internet and that. My, or my cell service, you know, I have some AT&T or something and it doesn't work outside of the city. You know, I could actually have it ring to whatever phone works. AT&T has signal problems? No, no, no. Did I say that? No, no, I didn't mean AT&T, I meant something else. Anyway, but yeah, so that's cool. That is really cool. So it works with Voice and it works the same way with a passcode even. So like, even if my phone didn't have service at all, if I didn't have any phone, see, check this out. Let's show them, show them this one. When I, on my laptop screen there, okay, I'm just logging in. Once again, ignore that silly captcha because I turned it off and then I go right here to the secondary authentication. Now this time I'm gonna do passcode and of course there's also a button that says send SMS passcode. So it'll actually send me a passcode via SMS but I don't even have to do that. I don't even have to have SMS. Let's say I'm somewhere out in the boondocks and all I have, I do have my smartphone but I don't have any service at all. I can literally just go into the Duo Mobile app. As long as my phone has power, I can go into the Duo Mobile app and once I'm in the app, okay, I'm literally on the first tab and all I have to do is touch this button that says generate passcode, you see? And do they do it? There, okay. Three, seven, seven, seven, four, seven, is that what it says? Okay, so back to my screen, you see? Three, seven, seven, seven, four, seven. It's a lot easier than it looks when you're trying to manage, see? Success logged in. That's it. So the app itself just generates this special number and it's a one-use number. It's basically a password that I can only use for the next few seconds. And if I don't use it right away, it says sorry, that's expired, you gotta get a new one. So I have to touch the button again. I hate that. That would be the most similar thing that a bank has actually implemented. Thus far would be like that one-time password thing. Yeah. Which I think would be like the dongle, right? Or the hardware, USB key thing. But that just does it with hardware and this does it with an app and it's- Yeah, that's much simpler. That's more, has the opportunity to be more ubiquitous. Right. Yeah, because I mean, it's, these smartphones or diamonds, almost everybody has one. But even if you don't, see, this is the thing. Even if you have a, you know, a 1990 old phone, and if you can get a text message, the thing will send you a passcode through the SMS. Oh, we need to ask Jared. Jared, is this only for Touchstone or does this work for rotary phones as well? Honestly, I'm not 100% sure. Let me tell you what. It works for rotary phones. My grandfather has one that he still uses, so I'll send him and test it out and see if a rotary phone works. But just to correct you on something, Bruce, those actually expire after 30 minutes on the SMSes and we can actually increase that. So, you know, depending, we can either make it not expire or we can crank it up even more. Oh, you mean the passcode on the SMS, 30 minutes? Right, right, right. Oh, wow, okay. That's what we have it set at right now. I was just joking about it expiring and being annoyed. It's never expired on me, but I know- The ones from my bank expire right away and it's extremely annoying. Honestly, I wish my bank used this system. I think this system is, I mean, I've had about, what, seven or eight bank accounts and that's what I was gonna say. Two-factor authentication. And none of them are nearly as smooth as this. Yeah. This is so easy, just click, click. I mean, you have to have two devices, but that's secure. You know, I don't want anybody who sits down at my browser. I actually like that they can have the browser, remember my login ID and password because that's really convenient, but I don't want anybody who sits down at my laptop now has my banking, you know, that's not cool. So, you know, I love the fact that they have to have my laptop or my computer and my phone because what are the chances? I mean, they're gonna have both. Exactly, exactly. And we do offer that physical token as well. So if somebody wanted to purchase that, we can ship it to them. I don't know the exact cost off the top of my head, but I believe it's around $20. So we haven't really received any demand for that yet, but I mean, because these options work pretty well, but if someone does want that physical token for whatever reason, we can provide that as well. So basically we got everything covered. And in any, it's also optional. So if you don't even wanna use it, then don't, you know. That's a great question. I was gonna ask that. I wonder why banks are not using this yet. I mean, now Bitcoin seems to be real. I mean, well, Bitcoin's always been cutting edge since the history of Bitcoin, you know, a couple years. But it's interesting that the security of exchange sites like Trade Hill seem to have already surpassed the online banking world that there are no, they don't have this. I haven't seen any of the banks that have, I mean, at least my banks don't seem to have two-factor authentication. You know what I think a big factor of it is? Everybody who's involved with Bitcoin has such a vested interest in it. So they're gonna go out of their way to make sure that there's no hiccups or anything that could, you know, sort of set back any progress that's made in the future because if something goes wrong and that shakes faith in it or the press has a field day, it could be detrimental to Bitcoin. I mean, on the other hand, the regular normal mainstream banking industry has a lot of competition and you would think they'd be motivated to do this. But on the other hand, I think the biggest difference is that their banking transactions can almost always be reversed. Bitcoin transactions can't. So because of the nature of it, a bank can always reverse everything and they can just, you know, they can sue people. They can do all kinds of things and seize their assets and seize the lock down their other bank accounts and all that stuff and get their money back if there was a mistake. And they're not so worried about it. They seem, you know, I remember in the early days when ATM, I mean, I'm only 29, but you know, my grandmother told me that when ATMs first came out, they, you know, they were just using plain old like 300 Bob modems and they had no security at all. Oh yeah. The ATM would just log in by dialing up and they didn't even have a log in their password the machines did. So like they seem to be almost reckless with their lack of security until they're forced to. And usually it's only a cost benefit thing. Like only if they're losing more than it would cost to secure it. Absolutely. It's just, that's how they run. But we're, you know, I mean, hopefully we're, the Bitcoin community has more foresight and we're trying to really prevent this stuff, even if it does cost a little bit to invest up from. Even like sort of akin to like the founding fathers where they knew these problems existed and would exist in the future and they vested a great deal of time to address those problems that they probably wouldn't even see in their lifetime. That's it. So, you know, we're so vested in it we have to make sure that it succeeds and to make sure it succeeds we have to cover every little crevice and nook and cranny. You hear that Jared? We are the founding fathers of the people's money. The people's money of the United Banks of Bitcoin. Or as you call it C and then the company of Bitcoin. The Bitcoin company. If you've seen the growth rate of this company it's got more than $100 million in its coffers. Anyway, we had a laugh about that. Well, this seems like a really good time to take a break even though we're not letting you get a word in edge wise, Jared, but we do want to thank our sponsors that bring us to you every weekday at 2 p.m. Eastern time on the Bitcoin show and they are usgoldcoins.com which if you're in the U.S. they can be reached at 1-800-HOT-COIN. 1-800-HOT-COIN. Ask for Andy Gauss. He's the guy, he's the man. He's my monetary genius about all things money. And if you want to invest and diversify your investments and into other things beyond Bitcoin, there really are other things beyond Bitcoin. A great idea is rare U.S. gold and silver coins. They're called numismatic, just means rare. U.S. gold and silver coins because they hold their value two ways. One because of the metal that's in them, obviously gold is silver. And the other is because they're rare, they're collector's items. So it's a really brilliant idea to diversify your investments. And he is a genius when it comes to this stuff. He's absolutely honorable. I completely endorse him. I mean, we were fans of his national radio show for years before we met him and became customers of him and we were buying this stuff from him. This is before Bitcoin. PBTC, pre-Bitcoin. And we bought from him and we trust him. And if you're ever in a pinch and you need some money he'll buy it back from you. He gives priority to his customers, of course. He's a very loyal, honest, trustworthy guy. Not like these other things that I would never allow to be a sponsor. But U.S. gold coins, if you're outside of the U.S. just go to usgoldcoins.com. Within the U.S. call 1-800-HOT-COIN and ask Randy. And the one and only famous world's first brick and mortar restaurant that accepts Bitcoin, Mezzy Grill. M-E-Z-E-Grill.com. Whether you're in New York or you're passing through New York, who isn't passing through New York at some point, right? You're gonna see all the tourist things and you're gonna find this circle that's very famous at the corner of Central Park called Columbus Circle. And you're gonna go, oh my gosh, this is Columbus Circle. That's where Mezzy Grill is. You just go like three blocks south and you're gonna find the world's first restaurant that accepts Bitcoin. They call it, they say, where authentic Mediterranean food meets modern flavor. Well, the truth is it's really, really delicious and it's organic ingredients as much as possible, locally grown, sustainable, they're into all that stuff. And not only that, it's delicious. And this is how we found them is because it's one of Ed and I's favorite places. We were eating there two, three times a week for lunch and for dinner. And now they serve breakfast. We haven't even tried their breakfast yet, but we love their lunch and dinner. And that's how we became friends with Marwan and Marwan became a sponsor and Marwan became the first restaurant in the world to accept Bitcoin. And Marwan has camera crews in there every other day. So that should be an incentive for other people to accept Bitcoin. There you go. You'll get camera crews in your restaurant every other day. He's happy about that. He doesn't mind. He's a ham. I'm sure he doesn't. He does really well on camera. So we thank Marwan when you, even if you're not in New York, send him an email and thank him for sponsoring the Bitcoin show and only one TV. And of course, tradehill.com. Tradehill.com has made it so easy to get Bitcoins in and out. The other day, Ed was helping somebody came in who really didn't know that much. They barely can work a mouse crowd. And she wanted to sell some Bitcoins. So he, Ed sat down with her and said, okay, just open a tradehill account. Make sure you use the referral code to get 10% off your trades for life. The Bitcoin show referral code, of course, on your screen there. It's TH-R141. TH, like tradehill, dash R for referral 141. And then, anyway, he had her upload her Bitcoins and then moments, she sold them, of course. And then immediately she initiated a wire transfer and before the bank closed, she had the money in her hand. It's that fast the same day. I mean, it's not always the same day. Of course, it depends on your bank and their bank and the cutoff of the wires and all that. But in this case, it was the same day. And I was like, wow, I'm impressed. That's really, really efficient. They have many currencies now and expanding all the time as you hear us talking about. And you can leave your, as much as possible as these markets are growing, you're gonna be able to leave the currency in its own without having to exchange everything into US dollars. As we already said, Euro is already here as its own currency and the Great Britain, UK, British Stirling, Pound, whatever the heck they call that thing is coming very, very soon. So we thank tradehill, call up Jared, he'll answer his phone. He answers his phone 24 hours a day, doesn't sleep. And thank him. As we thank you, Jared, for sponsoring the show because once again, if it weren't for you guys, we wouldn't be here. And, Mt. Gox. Mt. Gox is the, you know, the oldest game in town. Mt. Gox is the original online exchange site, mtgox.com. Who doesn't already know about Mt. Gox? I mean, they've got enormous market share and they're the ones who were hacked, but they didn't run away with your bitcoins. They're here, they're resilient, they're back, and they're still on the scene. I think it's pretty much unanimous. Everyone, including Mt. Gox, including you guys, Jared, Tradehill, and everybody else, and all these other trade exchange sites that are springing up, everybody would agree the more exchange sites the better. Nobody wants to be the only exchange site, as Jared said before. Nobody wants to be the only exchange site because the more the better, it benefits the whole entire Bitcoin world. There's only one exchange, then how are we decentralized? Exactly, Bitcoin is decentralized. And for the benefit of everybody in the entire Bitcoin world, we want more options, not less. And healthy competition, just like in the free open source world, is absolutely healthy and good for all of us. So thank Mt. Gox too, send them an email and thank them for sponsoring the Bitcoin show and bringing us to you. So what else is on the horizon, Jared? What are their huge, enormous? Oh, we've got plenty of things. Unfortunately, I've been asked not to tell, not to let them out yet. I was gonna say, I was gonna talk a little bit about DuoSec, DuoSec security, the company that's providing the security for us. I mean, it's one thing to have a really smooth, cool-looking interface that works well, but what good is it if it's not secure? So basically a little bit about them. The CEO and founder is named Doug Song, and he worked for Barracuda, I'm sorry, Barracuda, I cannot pronounce that, Barracuda, which is a leader in email and web security appliances. And I believe these guys are in the Google Hall of Fame for hacking and security and encryption and all that stuff. And his CTO is John Oberhide, if I'm pronouncing that right. If you look these guys up, you'll be impressed. I mean, their credentials are amazing. So when we went out looking for a security system, we wanted to go with the best. And then, so we've been working with these guys for a little while and we teamed up with them for this two-factor authentication. And they've also pointed us to third-party audit teams that they've recommended in the Bay Area as well. So we're speaking with them. Another thing that we didn't mention is it's free right now, but at the very most, this is gonna cost $1 a month. A dollar? Right. At the price of Bitcoin, that's a little bit high, don't you think? A dollar? Right, right. And I can promise we're never gonna profit off this. We're not gonna try and make a profit off our user security. Well, they gotta make something. I mean, they're creating this amazing technology. Oh, no, they're going to profit. They're gonna make money off this. Trading is not gonna make money off the security. That's what I mean. I mean, Duo, I went to their website. This is duosecurity.com. I might just buy some stock in this company. This is just brilliant. I would, I would. I mean, these guys are intelligent. They're marketing it well. It looks like Cisco uses them too. This is really sophisticated. Yeah, I'm not sure if Cisco uses them or if it's just compatible with their systems. Yeah, these guys are definitely going places. And it's just an amazing company. And then also I can tell you, from the administrative side, it's amazing. Like we talked about those text messages. In 10 seconds I can go in the system and change it. So instead of getting one code, you get 10. I can change it so the codes expire in one minute or they never expire. I wish you could get these guys on here too. And when you did your fraud, I got a response from our coders, literally from two minutes, and they said, oh, are you on only one TB again, Jerry? So it's just, it's just an amazing system. And I mean, I definitely have to promote them and tell any other companies that are looking for a two-factor authentication system. Definitely check out duosec. When I reported that as fraud, you heard from duosecurity or from your own coders? From our coders. Oh, okay. So they already got notified and they're calling you. It's amazing. You know what? This is like the first system that I've really seen where not only is it insanely secure, but it's also very usable. Usually, you know, you're getting rid of one to get more of the other. This seems to strike a nice balance. I've tried it on my own, super easy. I've never done it before. I didn't really have to give it much thought or anything. And I'm happy that they were able to find, you know, such a big visibility point. Exactly, exactly. And I had paid Elfrey's one of my accounts a year or two ago for just some stupid reason. And they told me that they were gonna mail me a two-factor authentication. And it took, you know, 12 days to get there or something like that. Oh, my God. And you know, and I'm just like, It's just ridiculous. You're locked out until then. Yeah, and this is up in five minutes. Yeah, I mean, how long did it take? You saw, and I was like describing every single thing. I mean, literally you saw how to do it. You could do this in, you know, really in a minute or two. And then once it's set up, it's a one-time only deal. The thing, you know, we talk about how this is free right now. I mean, even in the future, it'll be a dollar a month that's basically free. And then it's software. It's not a physical object. And there's the cumbersomeness of having a physical object that you can lose. You drop it. Oops, you drop it down the rain spout or whatever you call it, you know, whatever. If it falls out of your pocket. I mean, I dropped one on the floor yesterday. And that's, and also it's just the danger if you leave it. I mean, people are lazy. They'll just leave it plugged in, you know, and then they walk away and then there it is. But meanwhile, this is actually easier to use because you can insert those physical dongles in the wrong way or, you know, if it gets wet or damaged or lost or whatever. But with this, it's literally easier. I just click log in and then I click the green button and I'm in. I mean, it's not only is it seem more secure and cheaper and less cumbersome, it's actually easier to use. Exactly. And if you do want that older generation, you know, we can ship it to you. We, it's available if you really want to go for it, then we, you know, we'll oblige. That's slick. I think we should get these duo security guys on here. Maybe on absolutely show or something like that. I think, let me talk with them. I'll see, I'll see if they want to come on. That'd be great. How much does this cost? If I have a website and I want to add duo security to it. I mean, this, I think every website should have this Oh, that's another thing. By the way, another benefit is that I was thinking, you know, when you go to the drug store and they give you a little fob that they're going to scan if you want the real prices on the products and you go to the grocery store and they give you another one and you end up with like 25 of those little barcode things and you're, I got more of those than keys on my key ring, right? It's so crazy. And I was thinking now, is this the future? I'm going to have one of these key fobs for every single website I go to. No way, no way. So with this, obviously it's just software. And what's cool about the app, it looks like you can register multiple sites. So if you're using multiple secure sites, you're using one app, it makes everything very simple. Yeah, exactly. And I believe right now you can only link one site to the phone, per phone, but they've told me that they're probably going to have that done by the end of the month. So we're talking about 10 days from now and I'm not sure if they're still holding that deadline or not, but these guys are incredibly responsive. I call them up and I've talked to them on the phone. I say, hey, you know, would it be possible to get a feature like this? And they say, yeah, you know, we'll see if we can put something like that in. Wow. And they move fast. And these guys, I mean, they're just, they're amazing. I've just never been this impressed with a security company before. Yeah, they need to do that. You hear that duo security, you need to do that. Because if we're going to talk about how wonderful it is and like every website should have this, then I want this to work with my phone with absolutely every website I go to. I want my regular banking and, you know what? I want this for my PC. Yeah, just for your PC itself. Yeah, there you go. And that's actually cool. That's a really good idea. They should put a little CMOS app or something that you can lock your PC down without your phone. You don't have your PC. Yeah, but at that point, I'd probably go with a fingerprint to be honest with you. Yeah. But I just love how easy it is. So, but yeah, that's just, to me, it's so like obvious that every website should have this. At least, at the very least banks, the banks need this or, you know, mortgage institutions or anything that's highly sensitive like that. Right. Any kind of, maybe not forums and blogs, but for sure anything to do with banking or transactions or credit cards. Yeah. Or if you're a public personality, you know, like yourself, Bruce, I mean, it wouldn't be a bad idea to lock down your Facebook and your Twitter with something like this as well. I mean, you don't want somebody tweeting in your name or anything like that. So. But I can't remember the passwords. That's why my login is Bruce Wagner. My password is Bruce Wagner. I don't even bother because, you know, I figure I'm going to get hacked anyway. No, I'm kidding. No, we did a whole thing. I told you we did this whole how to thing about how to manage your strong, secure passwords. So I have like a 20s. No, what is it? 26 character, random letters and numbers, capital symbols and everything for every single thing. And then what I do is I use this KeyPassX password manager and then it's synced to my Dropbox, which is fine because nobody can actually open it. The database itself is encrypted. So it's very secure. But for anything financial, yeah, definitely should have this two factor. This is just the way to go. It's the obvious thing. Yeah, I was actually, I used to make patterns of like symbols and letters and stuff like that. And then after a while of not using it, I would forget. Yeah. I'd be totally screwed. No matter how much you think you're going to remember, you don't. Yeah. I'm looking to remember the one master. I have a master password on my KeyPassX that's like 28 letters long and it doesn't spell anything. Letters and numbers both. And that I can remember that and that's the only thing I can remember. But that's all I have to remember with that. Yeah. As long as you use it frequently, you know, it's less likely you'll forget it. Yeah, exactly. Do-do-do-do-do. And plus your fingers remember it. Sometimes I can't remember the thing, but I'll go do-do-do-do-do. Like close my eyes and my fingers remember it. That happened to my friend. He actually forgot his ATM pin, which he uses every day. And he had no idea. So he went out on the calculator. He was like, I think it's this. Trying to use the keypad. That's only four characters. Numbers. Okay. But anyway, I think this is fantastic. And I wish dual security a lot of success. And yes, they need to make it so that you can use the same app for every website. So that's brilliant. I'm really, really happy that you guys have done this. I think that, but it's not gonna be required. You can turn it off. You can turn it on. And so it's not mandatory to use it unless you actually opt into it. So that's a very good thing. And we've lost Jared in internet. This is what happens with live television, you know, live connections all the way to Chile. But I'm really impressed with it. Aren't you many? Like I said, I really wish banks would implement this. Which of the four options, you know, when you log out and you log back in and there's the four options, the phone call, the voice phone call to you, or the SMS text message, the push. The push is so cool. Yeah, the dual push is the best. It's just cool because it gives you a big red button and a big green button and you can report it. I mean, not only can you not get in, but you can immediately report the incident. Yeah, you feel like those commanders that are gonna launch the warhead. Remote control, arrest. Yeah, arrest the bad guy that is so slick. So we lost Jared. Oh well, I think we're gonna wrap it up anyway. We're out of time. But sorry, Jared. We'll talk to you again. But anyway, thanks everybody for joining us. I'm really glad that they are very security focused and conscious and that's gonna pay off in the long run. Yeah, I think everybody in the Bitcoin world is really, really interested in this and I hope that every site that has anything to do with Bitcoin online is going to implement one form or another of two factor security. We're not just trading digital nothing. We're trading digital money that's worth a lot. Digital cash, that's not reversible. So it's absolutely imperative. So anyway, and this is, I think this is the coolest, this is the coolest way to do it is with software and especially in conjunction with the cell phone. It has a cool like geek factor to it too. That too, yeah. Sort of like Bitcoin OTC, which is over the counter trading. Man, to get on that and to be verified, you have to go through a lot of geeky stuff. But it's pretty cool. You have to be more geeky than you are trustworthy to get out of that thing. Exactly. Crazy. I know. It's totally worth it. I actually dig it on by having used it yet. You're going to teach me how to do that. Yes. We'll do a show on that. Okay, we'll do a show on that. OTC, that'll be a real geek fast. All right everybody, we're going to run around the time. But thanks for joining us. Same time tomorrow, 2 p.m. Eastern time. That's 3 a.m. Tokyo. Stay up, it's worth it. And I'll actually be here tomorrow. Yes, that's right and Manny. Oh yeah, we got a huge announcement. Oh my gosh, I almost forgot. Manny is joining us full time. That's 150 hours a week, seven days a week. He's always here. He's going to be basically the air mattress and studio one that we use for the sketch comedy stuff. He's going to be sleeping here and living here. But he's going to be here, vice president of operations. So he's here all the time. You're going to see a whole lot more of Manny. Definitely going to be taking a nap, so. Welcome aboard. Yeah, exactly. No rest for the wicked. But thanks for joining us. And remember, Bitcoin Conference and World Expo 2011, Bitcoin 2011 is coming up August 1920 and 21. That is going to be huge. Bitcoinconference.com is the site to check it out, Bitcoinconference.com. Within hours, we're going to have the schedule finalized, the speakers, the schedule, the registration you can buy with Bitcoin. And if you don't have Bitcoin, then call me and I'll tell you somebody in your zip code or in your country who will sell you Bitcoin for cash. BTC near me. BTC near me and all that, yeah. So anyway, Bitcoinconference.com, all the details will be there, register and come. People are flying in from China and South America. You've got to be here. It's going to be amazing, amazing. It's going to count towards my hours, right? Oh, of course, of course. And then the other thing too is Bitcoin show is expanding into like nine more languages. So stay tuned, all right? All right, that's going to be awesome. Yeah. All right, see you guys tomorrow. 2 p.m. Eastern. Take care. Take care.