 While some people are focused on trying to get a picture with Yeh or impressing Yeh, I'm like, if I leave today, I'm leaving here with something. He'll go off on somebody and I'm thinking, okay, they're about to cry and they're just motivated. Like they're like, yo, they cool. Yeh, believe in me. That's what they got from that. Rick Rubin was walking out. He was like, I don't know how you're a professional if you're not even a student. What's up, what's up, what's up? I'm Brandon Shawn. And I'm Cory. And we are back with another episode of No Labels Necessary Podcast. You can catch us every Tuesday, every Thursday on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Music, wherever you stream your podcast here at the intersection of creativity and culture. Yet again, we are back. This is No Labels Necessary and we love to bring you guys guests who have something special to offer. And today we have none other than Mike Norris who's gonna be talking about flipping opportunities, because he's had internships. He's worked with Kanye in a certain level and he's always been figured out a way to come out with something. And I wanna figure how you do that because everybody in music, it's always looking for opportunity. How do you get these opportunities? How do you just end up working with Kanye or helping Kanye? Or how do you take a moment like that and not end up scoring where some people are like, man, I was around this group, but I came out with nothing and now I'm working my regular job that I was working before. So talking with you, I find it really dope that it seems like you've figured out a way to continue to navigate and find something that you could take from every experience that you've had. And first and foremost, thank you for hopping on, bro. But let's start here. How do you get into the music industry specifically? Well, first and foremost, thank y'all for having me. I love what you said about flipping opportunity. I never heard anybody use that term before, but that's exactly what it is. I got my start in music. So my grandfather was a pastor. So back when I was in elementary school, we used to go to church and he was a reverend. So it wasn't like a traditional pastor where he has a church and he just stays there. He would go to churches that only had three members, five members that were struggling to stay afloat and he would just go and he would turn them up. He'd take them from three members to 30 to 300. And then once it's healthy, put a pastor in place, go on to the next church and rebuild it. And doing that and seeing his service to others, I wanted to be of service to him. And so, he needed a minister of music at his churches. And I volunteered. I was like, yo, granddad, I want to help. And I just naturally had a gift for music. Like my grandma took me to the, we went to Walmart and it was an electric keyboard. And I walked up and I just started playing it. I just played whatever I was feeling and a whole crowd of people just gathered around me. It was probably like 20, 30 people at Walmart just breathless and mesmerized as this little kid just goes to work. And my grandma, she's like, when she was fighting through the crowd cause she didn't know what was going on. Like she was just worried about her grandbaby. And she grabs me and she's like, how'd you do that? I'm like, I don't know. And so after that, my uncle bought a piano and then they got me a role. He didn't buy the piano for me. He bought it for her to get her to make lessons. But you know, obviously she didn't take them. So she, you know, that was my piano. They enrolled me lessons like a week after that. From there I just started on the journey and I saw Classic 3000 by Andre 3000. And I was like, I grew up in Southern Illinois. It's like super country town. People ride horses to Walmart, like four doors down. My neighbor had a staple of horses when he got on their ride them sometimes. So there wasn't many, there was nobody living full time off music. Like that wasn't a thing. He sounded crazy to even bring that up. And you know, I saw Classic 3000 by Andre 3000. I was like, yo mom, is Atlanta real place? Is that like really a thing? There's performing art school and black people everywhere. She was like, yeah, that's what Atlanta is like. I'm like, I'm gonna go to Atlanta. And I made that decision as a kid. And when I became a man, I followed through with that commitment. That's what's up. That's crazy, man. That's crazy. Did he come from deeper country than you? Or is that the same level of country? No, that's not about the same. My neighbors had horses too, bro. Y'all find your way to Atlanta. Atlanta opportunity, bro. So I mean, bro, you mentioned, you said something like at the time, right? You weren't sure that people could make it in music coming from where you come from. So what was the first instance you remember having when you were like, oh, like working in music is possible? Man, it was, I don't know. It's between in college when I was broke, I would street perform. And so I would take my horn and I would go to like Piedmont Park. They have this little like tunnel there and it had like great reverb. And I'll just go there and I play my horn and I'll go there for like 30 minutes to an hour. But I would average $30 every half hour. So if I ever stayed for like a full hour, I'm making $50 to $60 just playing my horn. And I would do that like regularly. Like at first it was just when I was broke and I'm like, yo, I'm getting my practice time. I'm basically, I'm a music major so we're required to play nine hours a week. So I'm like, yo, I'm getting paid to practice. So I started doing that. And then I started getting gigs for like 250 here, 300 here, 500 here. And it's just for like a three hour show playing my horns. So I'm like, oh, I could really, like this is like something that's fruitful. That's on the performance side. Eventually I switched over to music management. And, you know, seeing I can make a living off of that, that was Rico Brooks. And it is funny because I was talking to Flex Bowman. He's over a reach record. He manages Lecrae. And me and him just went golf in his past weekend and he had the same story. He was saying like Rico just took him out for a week, had him with him every day, just running different errands, going on different missions, pulling up to the studio. And he just, you know, got to see Metro and Sonny. I got the same experience. I'm going to the studio with Rico and Sonny has an event going on or he's about to work with Chance the Rapper or like just seeing Rico's house. Like he had two, he has two houses in Atlanta. So he has his regular house and he had the studio house that he's building the studio. And he's like, oh, we're going to the studio house today and I go to the studio. The regular house has like 10 plaques. Studio house has like 50 plaques. And so I'm like, okay, this is like, this is a real manager who's not at any label. Like he's doing this independently and he lives a lavish livestock and go where he wants, dress how he wants, pay people, hire staff. And so I'm like, okay, no, like we can, and I was interning for him. That's probably like my junior year, junior year of college. So where did you take that internship into? Rico, so now we, I want to call it a partnership but we've done, he's broken red up red with me more than, more than a couple of times. So now I have a producer who, you know, he has, let's say he's generated $25,000, $50,000 and publishing he wants to deal. I don't have that 25 to 50 to give him but I can go to Rico. I'm like, yo, Rico, I need this. And he'll sign them and we can either bust down the profit or he'll just give me a finder's fee and I can get that off top. And that's just a relationship that's, oh, and then like my clients, they've collaborated with his clients. So, you know, I have clients that are sending beats to Sonny, June the genius, Beat God XL. Like, and then he consults for different record labels. So I've had clients hop on projects with those artists that he consults for. So it's just a very collaborative relationship that we have. So, and when you say clients, you're talking about producers, right? Yes, sir. All right, so we'll get to that in a little bit. Okay, if you're listening to this and you're looking to grow your music career, boost your streams and your fan base, me, JR McKee and Jacory are looking for 60 artists to meet with us in person so we can help them in this limited environment, this one-time opportunity personally to build your music career. So on August 12th, NLNL, like Sean says, gonna be a super exclusive event. We're gonna be giving out information that we haven't really been able to share anywhere else and we wanna make sure that you're one of those people that gets to walk away with this game. So if you wanna get your tickets, go to knowlabelsnecessary.com or check the link in the description if you're watching this on YouTube. Like I said, we're not doing 61, we're not doing 62, just a hard 60. We wanna make sure that those 60 people are the best quality people that will actually use this game. So hopefully we- The venue is literally at capacity at that number. Like, no more than that. So be one of those 60, if you're serious, come dab us up, make sure that we real. And yeah, we'll see you there. Nolabelsnecessary.com. I want you to touch on how you got the opportunity to be a production assistant for Kanye during the period where he was in Mercedes Benz Stadium, staying overnight, you know, all kind of media, rumors going on, making it seem like it was this crazy thing. He like, he just took over the stadium. Push-ups. Yeah. The push-ups, I didn't hear no push-ups. You didn't see the live stream, like he was doing push-ups? I did. He was getting it in. I would love to hear about, first of all, how you got that opportunity. And then, of course, we can get into some of the details of it. Yeah, so I have a friend named Kyle and he was kind of hired to manage that situation by Cortez. So his mentor is Cortez Bryant and Cortez manages like, you know, Lil Wayne, Drake, what formerly Lil Wayne and Drake. So you'll hear Drake shot him out of Lila. Oh, Tess and Wayne are responsible for this. Like, they're talking about Cortez, Brian. He's actually a member of my fraternity, KK Si. But I'm cool with like, his whole young generation, like all the youngest acts that he's grooming up. Like those are the people who I kind of run with and we do events together. So, you know, they gave Kyle the opportunity and Kyle's one of the first people he called. He was like, yo, Tess wants me to put together some teams to just, you know, be the production systems for the Holdonda, the Holdonda, I want to call it a camp, but Holdonda camp album. So Kyle, it was one morning I wake up and this is actually after he'd already done the first show. Like he hit me, he's like, yo, Mike, I need you to pull up Ben Stadium, all black. I assume you know what this is about. I'm thinking Kanye is gone already. So I'm like, I have no idea, but you're my brother, so I trust you. So I pulled up and I was hopeful. I was like, yo, maybe Kanye is still here kicking it for another day after everything. And I walked to the security in the back, I check in, Mike Norris still like, okay, make a phone call, you're good, buzz me in. And I get there and I'm just looking and I'm like, yo, where am I? No one knows how I'm supposed to go. Like everybody's just like running around doing shit. Like no one standing still. Like everybody's just in motion. And I turned the corner and I just walked by faith, not by sight. I'm like, I hope I'm going the right direction. I see a lot of people wearing black over here. And eventually I hear his voice. I hear, I'm the youngest black billionaire in America. I'm the most successful black man in America. I'm the black Bill Gates. I'm like, okay, all right, is that pulled my head? I'm like, yeah, that's yay. Yay, she's going on, like giving a spiel about everything. And I meet my team, which is a bunch of other young executives here in Atlanta that shared that experience with me. Sarah and Sarah was one of them. And we, you know, we just got to work. Like, like Lauren was yay's assistant at that time. And Lauren would be like, yay and he says, yay and he says, but then like John Monopoly, who was his manager, would pull him in like, yo, you and you, come on me do this. So we were just like all over the place with different people from his team grabbing us the relaying orders. Like we had to leave and go buy things, had to go buy them body wash, or I had to go buy a weight form so he could work out. So it was like just a lot of running, but in those moments while you're waiting on orders is like really where the magic was. Cause you got to see how he interacted with people. And that's like, like me being from Illinois, it's like, yo, this is somebody who I idolized growing up, you know, somebody who, you know, was one of those things that attracted me to music, like seeing, seeing gay and I'm like, okay, cool. He's from Illinois. I'm from Illinois. Like I think I could do this too. I think there's something special about, you know, the city and the culture, like growing up in that, that can affect your sound. And I'm like, yo, I think we had similar environments. So like he kind of was one of those other driving forces that pushed me into music and his different approach to it. So me being in that space with everybody, like, like with him and hearing how he talks to people, cause you always think like, oh, yeah, he's an asshole or he is a narcissist or all these different things that, that people portray him as online, but then you see him in person and I'm like, oh no, this is a godly man. This is a man of God. This is a man who truly understands like the impact of his words and actions, even though we might, you know, interpret them as being reckless is like, he understands the impact, but he has a different way of seeing it or an outcome that we're not even thinking of that he's trying to get out of the situation that might not be immediate, it might be delays, but, you know, just seeing like, you know, he'll go off on somebody and I'm thinking, okay, they're about to cry and they're just motivated. Like, they're like, okay, cool. Yeah, believe in me. Like that's what they got from that. Like he could have said whatever, but they just got, okay, he believes in me. Okay, he's giving me a chance. And, you know, how he built the project together from, you know, like Rick Rubin, Rick Rubin, that was one of the cool moments. Like, Rick Rubin was walking out and he was like, I don't know how you're a professional if you're not even a student. His walk stop stood in front of us, said that walked out the room and I'm like, okay, all right. Like, you just got to be paying attention to all the times because it's like, it's like, oh, is that? It is. Like, and they're just wisdom, like pearls of wisdom being dropped by all the different creatives that walk in and out the room. And, you know, that was really like, for me, like you talk about flipping opportunities, I'm like, okay, cool. While some people were focused on like trying to get a picture with Ye or impressing Ye, I'm like, Ye's here to work. Ye's on the job. Ye ain't paying me no attention. Like if I do a good job, I'm probably not gonna get a good job from him. But if I do a good job, I might be able to stay here longer. But I'm like, yo, if I leave today, I'm leaving here with something. So I focus on just building relationships with the producers that I saw around. Cause I'm like, one of y'all is gonna get on this project. Most of y'all might get on this project. And if once you guys are locked in this project, I mean, you were locked in, now I'm locked in with Ye. And that's not just like, that's a for everything. Like, we can, you know, if your relationship with him is good and then I'm able to be around more and build more relationships with different people on this team, I'm like, yo, this is just like a lifelong thing. So I'm like, yo, I just need one lifelong. I just need to build like a genuine relationship with one person from this camp. Like I don't, and so let me just see how I can be an asset to just one person. Like who needs help? Who needs something that I can provide? Like, okay, yeah, you're working with Ye, but what does your team need? What do you need as a person? Like, how can I be that person for you? Cause once this album comes out, like y'all are gonna need a bag. Well, I got great relationship with Ultra. I got, so I got access to money. I can get you guys a quarter million dollar deal, half a million dollar deal. So cool, that's one angle. But, you know, there's Sony A&Rs there as well. So I'm like, okay, cool. Let me not be too heavy on that. Maybe I can go the managing route, managing my clients, they're doing success. We got things going on, but I was just trying my best. Like, okay, what was my end? Like how can I be of value to these people? But ultimately it just came from me being a person. Like, forget all the business stuff. Like one dude was from Carbondale. I'm from Marion. Carbondale was right next to Marion. My mom graduated from Carbondale. She went to SIU. And so I'm like, yeah, my mom, I was like, my mom, I'm from Illinois. He's like, we're apart. I'm like, Marion, he's like, no, you're not. And then we just started going back and forth. I'm like, yeah, my mom with the SIU. He's like, you know, I ain't going to go SIU. I'm like, yeah, no, she went to Carbondale. He's like, nah. And then like he started pulling up some of these people's contacts and I recognized the area code. It was like Marion area code and Carbondale area code. And that was when I met a fireman. Like me and him just like hit it off. Like just like on some human stuff. And it was just, he was always genuine. I was genuine. So we just stayed in touch. I connected with DJ Speedy and he was just more so just pouring it into me because he could see I was hungry for education and hungry to make something out of this. I don't, I didn't care about clout. I'm not like a clout type of person. Cause I know ultimately like the attention is going to come from the work that I do. Like, so rather than take advantage of this moment and look cool on my, let me just work this moment. And maybe in five years or 10 years I'll be able to execute or do something with this. That's, that's worth talking about. Oh man, everything you said. I mean, I feel like it's just textbook for how to look at opportunities, look at people within the industry. Cause we talk about like fans not looking at artists as humans or whatever and how labels might not look at artists and people as humans. But even the upcoming, you know, execs or just somebody who's trying to get in as an intern we kind of do the same thing at times where you're so busy, you're so hungry trying to look for an end. You just forget that, you know, these are people that I can connect with. And like you said, all you need is one. And because, and then that cascades, right? And then those people, if you're cool, they'll connect you with their people. Like it just becomes an organic thing. So that's dope. All right, so I'm about to put you onto something that's going to make your life so much easier. I got a platform for you because if you want to be able to text your fans, we got you covered. If you want to be able to put a link in your bio that's simple and you don't have to switch back and forth, we've got you covered. As a matter of fact, if you want to be able to promote your music, we've got you covered all from this platform called Forever Fans. As a matter of fact, users who use this platform have already seen 10 times the amount of shares of their music, that's how you know their real fans and 2.5 times the amount of followers on Spotify, which we know that contributes to boosting your algorithm. The Forever Fans strategy is a strategy that goes beyond just creating some trending sound, going viral, because most people focus on getting views for the day, but what matters the most are fans for life. Check out ForeverFanMusic.com. One question before we get too far away from it, though, and I think I asked you this when we talked before, but it reminds me, I just saw a clip today where Julius Randall was talking about how Kobe had cursed folks out at practice, but he was inspired by it, right? You just talked about Kanye talking, how Kanye was motivated by it. If that wasn't Kanye, though, and he was talking the way he was talking, how do you think he would have taken it? Man, he might throw hands. So it definitely makes a difference being in a position before you're able to talk a certain way. Yeah, it's like, if you ain't done it, if you ain't nobody, you talking to me crazy, it's like, nah, bro, I gotta see you about that, but if you've hit a certain level, it's like, okay, well, this might be coming from a place of love because you want me to make it to where you at. So you're like, yo, bro, I'm this tough on you because what I'm giving you actually works, and I need you to take this seriously and respect that. Which goes back to what Rick Rubin said in terms of being a student, of course, right? And that student space, it's a lot of ego swallowing, right? Yeah. But let's clarify, right? You said you met fire, man. That's how you hit it off with him, but you became his manager from that situation, right? Yes, sir. Now, what was that situation in general? Man, that was one of those moments of those relations. That was like a journey, I won't even, and we're still on the journey, but it's a journey that builds my confidence as a manager because, mind you, like this is the top of the world, this is Kanye West, like this is Donda, he rented out the Benz Stadium, like there are more millionaires and then I can count just walking in and out more successful music executives and entrepreneurs and then I even knew it existed and they're all hungry, like they're all looking for opportunities too, they're trying to get clients, they're trying to close deals. So, you know, for me to get picked by him, out of the, if I told you some of the people that wanted to manage him, you'd be like, what? And he picked you, so I'm like, out of all of these people that wanted to work with him, like he picked me, like it was an honor, but it was also a fight, like, because for me, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna prove my work because I, and this might be to my detriment, but I don't like taking opportunities, I don't feel like I deserve what I'm worthy of, like if I feel like, if I know somebody that can do the job better than me and they want the job and then I have it, either every day I gotta prove to myself I deserve just more than them or I can do a better job than they can or I'm gonna just end up giving it to them. So, for fire, I was like, okay, I like you as a person, so I want you to be in the best position, but just because somebody has more clout or more time in the industry than I do doesn't necessarily mean they're better for the role because I'm young and I give a fuck. So, while somebody else might be lackluster with how they pursue things that could advance your career or might not necessarily have their eyes and opportunities for you, like me, I'm actively like, okay, what's gonna help him be better? What's gonna help him be bigger? What's gonna, like, how can I make more people aware of him? How can I get him more respect? How can I get him pay more money? Like, how can I help him take care of his people? Because he really takes care of his people and so it goes back to that human aspect because I'm like, I like you as a person. So, like beyond all this music stuff, I don't wanna see you down and it just made me go like that much harder for him. So, it was like getting him podcast interviews or getting him sessions with different artists or, you know, I got him paid for working on a project. I got him interviews or every outlet he wanted to get on. So, like, I used, like, I have all the contacts to make pretty much anything shake for anybody. He just has to make sense of both parties and with him, it makes sense. He's like, yo, he worked with you. Of course you can come on here. Yo, he, yeah, like, and before he even worked with you, like he was still an artist and his stuff was buzzed in Chicago. So, it's like, yo, he's worthy of respect with or without this that the ace of is just a plus. So, I took pride in like championing him and putting him in position and just helping him grow his brand. Because, you know, as he grew, I grew as well. And, you know, that, like, yeah, no, you my manager is like, okay, cool. Like, it's, like, yeah, that was, I don't know, it was everything to me because I know who else he could have had. Really quickly, I would like to touch on another situation where you were intern, right? And you flipped that. Can you tell that story real quick when you were intern at Mean Streets 30 Studios? Yeah, Mean Streets, that was, yeah, that was definitely my sophomore year of college. I just changed my major to music management slash industry. And Mean Streets had DJ drama. At the time, Chris Jones, he was the vice president of Atlantic Records. He had an office up there. And it was just popping, man. Like every producer and their mom will be up there. Like Playboy Cardi would be there regularly. Uzi, Jack Harlow. Yeah, like that whole Generation Now fan would just be up there like regularly. And like, this is before Jack Harlow popped. So he just be walking around like a regular person. Uzi was famous, but for some reason, like he just treated us interns like regular people. Like it was just cool. Like he didn't, you know, he wasn't like an asshole to us. Like he treated us like regular people. So it was just cool being around all those artists and really learning the culture and how to be comfortable in a studio and how to talk to people. Like my first time being Playboy Cardi, I didn't know what he looked like. So I was in the B room and I was just cleaning up. And like he walked in the room and he ain't say nothing. He just sat down and I kept cleaning. I'm standing at him and he's standing at me. And I'm like, yo, you an engineer? And he was like, nah. I was like, all right. He said, you an intern? I'm like, yeah. He was like, that's cool, cool. Finished cleaning and walked out. I'm like, hey, there's some tall guy in B room. Is he supposed to be there? They're like, they ran, came back. Oh, you don't know who Playboy Cardi is? I'm like, I do now. But yeah, no, I met a dude named AJ Ruhmer. I don't say I met him there. I met AJ in college. But at that time he had kind of pushed me to intern at Mean Streets because he was engineer intern there. But he was going crazy. He was working with A Boogie, Cardi B, he was working on a lot of big records with a lot of big people. And A Boogie just snatched him up and made him his full-time engineer. So he did the hoodie season album, like engineered that whole thing. And so AJ knew I was interning for Rico and he wanted to break as a producer. And that was my boy who went to college together. So I'm like, hey, I can get Rico as your manager because Rico has this, this, this, this, this. And as we were trying to coordinate a meeting between him and Rico, he was like, actually, I want you, I want you to manage me. Because we were together at Mean Streets and he saw how interact with artists, how interact with people, how people truly feel about me, what they say when I'm not in the room. He was like, yeah, I think you're qualified to represent me and I think you're intelligent enough to, and respected enough to get me paid and not let me get taken advantage of. So yeah, that relationship with Mean Streets turned to me managing AJ and that was like another one of those, like when you ask like, I realized I can make money in music. I work with AJ, like we got entire project budgets. Like we would produce projects and get the entire production budget for it. So that's when I first saw like a six-figure check. And this is like 2021, but like AJ is like my first producer management client and like we just got six figures for a project. So I'm like, and I was like 25 at that time. So I'm like, okay, if this is 25, like we're getting six figures for projects, like the rest of my trajectory is going to be through the roof. Man, I just like to say the common thread is you've had situations where the people you end up working with seem to pick you because of who you showed yourself to be, which is pretty dope, which is pretty dope, man. Like, unfortunately, obviously we can't go as long as we wanted to today, you know, but our love, if you could whiff the wisdom that you've imparted through your experience as you shared today, how do you provide like some final words, man, in terms of how you feel like people should think about their approach in terms of the music industry or navigate the music industry? What do you want to leave us with? Man, you know, a lot of people say it's a marathon, but they don't truly know what it is to run a marathon. Like the level of preparation it takes to perform in a marathon. You can't just wake up and go run a marathon tomorrow. That takes consistent effort and that's how I view the industry. Like a lot of people, they're so focused on it now. It's like, well, I might not be up in three years. I might not be up in five years. I might not be in this situation. So let me milk the most out of it now. And in that, you lose a little bit of the integrity. Like you lose a little bit of what makes you special because you're just going for anything and you're looking for the look and where people, like it doesn't matter what fields you're in, like everybody has a bullshit detector. So we can tell us like, oh, you're not that close to this guy or you're not really involved in that situation like that or you're exaggerating yourself and your role and it makes you cheap. It makes you cheap and it makes it, you less attractive for people to work with. So I'd say like really take your time and prepare because it only takes one thing to go to your whole life to change. You get one good artist or one hit song or whatever the situation is. But it just takes one and your whole situation can change. And it doesn't matter if you're 30 or 40 or 50, like as long as you're chasing it, like you could stumble upon it, you can create it for yourself, but the whole thing is you have to be valued. Like you don't want to be 30 years old and you've got your chance but nobody wants to deal with you. So they try to separate you from the situation because the situation is good, the artist is good, the music is good, but they don't want to deal with you. So rather than elevate it in you, they're going to separate you from the situation and try to break the artist without you because of what you did for yourself or your brand along the way. So I just say focus on like treat it like a long game. Treat it like you're gonna be here until you're 50 and you're 60 years old and choose your shots wisely. Like don't swing at everything. Like this be consistent, practice every day, study every day, be true to your word. I say yes to everything and then God meets me halfway. Like even if I feel unqualified, God doesn't qualify the quality. God doesn't qualify, he qualifies the call. So that's been the story of my life but I can say one thing I've seen work around the board is just being consistent, being consistent with what you want and studying to be a master of that. Beautiful, beautiful man. Appreciate you for stopping by, bruh. This is yet another episode of No Labels Necessary People. I'm Brandon Shawn and I'm Cory and we out. Peace.