 Hello my friends and welcome to another edition of Android faithful. We are your weekly source of hardware apps news Pixel predictions Hardware fun stuff anything you can think of under the Sun about Android that is us because we are the Android faithful I'm Ron Richards and joining me as always is who into it out and Michelle Ramon Happy pixel leave to you both. Happy pixel leave The unfortunate timing of us always having an episode right before a major event just exactly We are recording this on Tuesday October 3rd in the evening Like we call like I've been calling a pixel Eve as tomorrow morning at 10 30 a.m. Eastern time is the Google pixel event The made by Google event pixel 8 rollout, etc And I couldn't be more excited to have a very special guest to help us get sight for pixel leave None other than mr. One back now. Welcome to the show Oh Not only are you here to join us for pixel leave, but you also are actually The first second-timer guest on the new show Yeah, believe it or not. You are our first That's awesome Wait, and I'm so excited that that we have like more temperate weather because like the last time I was on the show I had ice blocks in my pants because we have like a hundred degree weather outside So now you won't see me like melting during the course of the show There you go. We're lucky for that How do you like to celebrate pixel leave, I mean do you I mean do you celebrate do you choose to celebrate or? I do I do it is it is definitely a family experience right now As we speak my daughter is playing the queen's gambit on the pixel tablet So she is she's learning about she's learning about chess. I'm going through all of my Beta my Android 14 beta phones. I've got three nice 7 Pro I'm a pixel my pixel fold and then I'm also like I've got a little shelf over there And I think I might try and trot out like just some of the older Like I haven't I haven't just spent any quality time with the pixel 5 lately It's was a cute little phone, and I kind of miss it. So It's a holiday, you know if I had planned in advance, I would have gotten all of my pixel devices here around me You put them under the tree on pixel ease We need an official, you know Appropriation of pagan ritual what would you exactly for And a holiday a pixel Eve Bush a pixel e Dessert right you have to put your pixels under the thing I someone in the chat, please please help us out I would like to say so wild west and watching live on twitch says hanging our old pixel phones on my monitor stand now And I put a sock on my mantel in case I get something overnight What if um, what if we bake an old pixel into a cake and then whoever guesses correct me that's a good idea Something wins a win gets the value by them and we also have a request in from YouTube from Pac nw Who is asking if one will dress up a Santa pixel at the pixel home? So so this so by the way if you like Android faithful, and you want to participate in this live Every Tuesday night eight o'clock Eastern we are on YouTube and twitch so you can you can do that YouTube comm slash daily tech news shows and twitch TV slash good day internet from our friends at daily tech news show helping us Letting us crash on their channels All right Well before we get into more pixel predictions and things like that real quickly want to remind everybody as I mentioned last week Just a quick reminder. We are on mastodon. We did it. We made the jump We are at Android faithful at Android dev dot social We went to where all the Android devs be at That's that's for when except for when yeah And one in the pre-show and live you saying you weren't you weren't using the Twitter X That much, but are you on the mastodon? Are you doing are you doing that? I I so I'm kind of poking around everything like I even dug out an old pebble account near this pebble that is So the the account that I'm spending the most time on just for my own personal mental well-being is mastodon The the nerds over on mastodon are legit nerds and the Linux communities and the Foss communities are amazing Yeah, like the quality of conversations that are hanging out there And that's actually where I started cyber stocking Michelle again was like oh man He's posting like this whole thread and I'm here for it I Feel like if you're feeling a little displaced if you don't have your micro blogging site Spend a little time follow a couple hashtags and I think mastodon will treat you well All right Well, and you can follow us at Android faithful so we're on there so and I am and then also before we get into the Pixel Eve festivities when you have a special special report for us I need any sound effects for breaking. We don't have a breaking news I could do that I could do the funeral music if you want, but that's probably not appropriate here. So Yeah, so apparently tomorrow if you aren't aware the if you're in the US the national wireless emergency alert system will be testing So everybody's phones are gonna ring I think at the same time real loud and I was telling the crew before that I really hope it happens during the pixel event Not because I want to sabotage it But I just think it'd be really funny But if you yeah, but this is the thing that is happening across the US and it will happen to all phones It's basically just a test of the emergency system. I think female or whatever Yeah, and about 2 20 p.m. Eastern tomorrow 20 p.m. Thank you. I didn't actually somehow I missed the time So there you go 2 20 p.m. Eastern if you get a phone call or if everybody in the room gets a phone call at once Don't panic yet. It is only a test and I don't think it's gonna be a phone call I think it's gonna be that like crazy loud Yeah, right when there's an amber alert, right? I would like to I would like to note that I let my sister know who is a high school teacher and she says right at the end of the school day every phone in the building great Still in the middle midst of things and work days, so just FYI Imagine all the lost dollars in productivity more, but it's okay But just letting y'all know okay, I mean if you are listening to this after October 4th, then sorry We didn't get you in time But yeah, no, but if you download the podcast tonight or listening to it on your commute tomorrow morning on your way to go celebrate pixel day You'll know that it's how it's coming and maybe if all the people with the pixel 8's at the event There'll be some sort of sort of harmonious event where the pixel 8's participate in this While you're waiting for your pixel to get updated to Android 14 Yeah, don't stare at it too hard or hold too close to your face Yeah, don't don't don't hold it up to the Sun either. That's it I know I'm gonna be in like a flow and then like 10 devices on my desk are gonna erupt That's a really good point like cuz I because I've got I've got my daily driver phone I've got a phone that will not be made name that I'm running tests on I've got my work phone I've got it won't happen to my tablet, right? I was having fun my wife's phone. Like yeah, I think we're gonna need to like Manage to minimize the amount. Oh, yeah, I can't imagine you have like a box of phones. They're all gonna go off or Most of them are off and I don't keep them all on but yeah, there's gonna be a bunch of like six different phones going Oh, no, I have like four phones on my desk. My husband carries two phones are oh gosh. It's gonna be bad It's gonna be bad. This is definitely a us versus them problem But like I was trying to explain to my dad was asking about this and I was like because we actually my I was talking to my Dad was asking about the show and we were talking about Price points on phones, right? And and and you know, I was talking about foldables how they're like prohibitively expensive and stuff like that He's like right, but does anybody care about that anymore? Doesn't everyone just go to their carrier and pay like a monthly whatever it is and like your bill is X amount of dollars That includes the phone and I was like, you know, I don't know because I haven't done that for 10 years And that is you know, we're in a I you know I hate privilege rarified whatever it is But we're definitely in a different spot as people who are living and breathing with these phones and getting review units and buying Unlocked phones and like not wanting to be tethered to just one phone and one carrier that like I gotta admit I am distant from the millions of people and how they get a new phone, right? And so yeah, yeah Crazy, I know there you go. I still you see I can't stop talking about Android even when we're not doing the show I'm like talking to my dad about it Without a further ado, let's let's get into pixel Eve because it is The night before the pixel event So I hope that you've been good this year and I hope that you wrote to Santa Google But so as we mentioned tomorrow October 4th, 2023 Beginning at 10 a.m. Eastern that's 7 a.m. Pacific. I know some in the chat room is asking what time Pacific It was at 7 a.m. The made by Google event will be happening live in New York City They're gonna be live streaming at both on Google's website and on their YouTube channel So you should be able to find it if you just Google made by Google event or Google event You'll find it easily tomorrow but so a quick kind of like You know preview of what we're gonna see because I I don't you know It seems like everything's been leaked at this point. Yeah, but we're expecting the pixel 8 and pixel pro We've already seen some sneak peeks at them. We've gotten some sense of the color ways that we can expect and things like that So definitely new phones We're also we dive into that a little more in a little bit We're also expecting the new pixel watch to which we've seen it's gonna get it's gonna have a new crown And some other you know other neat sensors on the back of it and things like that Fitbit Integration as you can see from the Fitbit icon on the on the Google's own sneak peek video that they put out and then We're gonna see some pixel buds pro and in fact Michelle You've got some stuff on the new pixel buds pro that we're gonna talk about a little bit and then You know the launch of Android 14, maybe I mean that's that's what we're all expecting at this point as Android 14 watch continues and actually We had a couple of carriers including tell us Confirm that October 4th would be the launch date for Android 14 So the the the where in the world is Android 14 mystery Ken Ken and probably Yeah, there's a thing about Android is an ecosystem is there too many people you can't you can't have like a secrets keeper like Apple where it's such a singular so as soon as you start communicating that stuff It's it's gonna get out. Well, so that that was my question was that like bravo to Google for like getting ahead of that and knowing That stuff is gonna leak and like putting out these sneak peeks and basically telegraphing What is gonna be announced and tomorrow's event as we've seen in previous events is gonna be likely Okay, we know what's coming out, but how are they gonna present it? How are they what is the story they're gonna tell much like Samsung? What is the what is the Google ecosystem gonna look like? You know, I'm you know based on what we've seen and what we can expect from Google We're gonna see a lot of focus on the camera and photos and that of what it can do and then of course that leads us to The magic buzzword AI Which if this is anything like the Google IO presentation, we might be in for it with the AI. I'm guessing. I don't know I mean, you know, I take a shot every time they say the word AI Because I feel like that's the stuff that they can control that won't get kind of pushed out, you know We've seen a number of leaks. I mean even in this article that we've linked in the show notes here We have a pretty good handle on what like the hardware is going to be what the the internal specs are going to be but those don't ever fully Sort of detail the experience of using a pixel and that's the that's the area where Google can still come in tomorrow And give us something a little bit special and talk about their investments in a in AI and machine learning And it's always to remember things that like Even when we look at some of the deficiencies that we've had over the last two years with tensors These pixel phones have been capable of doing things that are very surprising when you put them up against other premium phone competition And that's where I think Google has an opportunity to keep this conversation going Some things might seem or look a little iterative But we're looking at services and we're looking at relationships and we're looking at making everything as ubiquitous as we can With the relationship you have with your data It's pretty amazing how this whole ecosystem, you know, like before I feel like maybe like what I don't know I mean as a dev I think this is kind of new to me this whole experience of like We kind of know what's coming and now as I think you mentioned like the conversation is the important part And that it actually benefits Google that we've been talking about this and quantifying on it and opining for like months and months and months And they can they can have a read on what we like. It was kind of funny This is not quite the same thing, but I saw a conversation from an Android dev kind of just opining on, you know the support the security support update cycle on, you know, Android versus iOS and it's so funny because nowadays we kind of know like and it was it was funny because now I can say Oh, well, if you want to know the big rumor is that we'll get seven years of security updates I don't know. I know that's like a small example, but it just feels like all these different conversations and all of this like focus to I don't it's not focus testing, but it's like all this kind of like Gathering of opinions and and hot takes in the in the run-up. It seems like just part of the drill now and actually beneficial I don't know for everybody. It's kind of cool. Just just yeah, especially the dev Who someone doesn't hasn't paid attention to this until I started doing these shows with you guys It's been fun and interesting Well, and that that leaves me that leads me to my question, which is Do you think they're gonna surprise us in any way shape or form? I mean, I know that now This is like wild speculation and stuff like that. But do we think that there's gonna be anything That we don't know about like because we're all You know say I'm gonna say the a-word, but apple led us to believe What's the one more thing and what's the kind of exciting exciting thing and google doesn't really play that game Except when they do Right, I feel like they you know when they have a reason to I mean, what do you think? The only thing that I think they could do that would be really surprising would be an announcement of like Satellite messaging service support in like a year from now because like the kind of thing that wouldn't if it You know if it's if there's something they're planning to announce tomorrow And it's something that's immediately gonna roll out or like roll out within a few weeks It would have probably have leaked by now But something that they're working on that's like a year out from now and like they don't have like marketing materials They didn't talk to carriers and whatnot That's something that could truly blindside us because you know, there's no that would have been something They would have been able to keep under wraps, but all these other things. So we're gonna fit many weeks We're gonna make this official, right? I'm gonna keep track of this right now And then we're gonna revisit this next next week. So michelle you you are hoping for or predicting some sort of Satellite, you know, kind of like future down the road not at rollout, but like a hint of what's to come, right? Yeah, so sat support I'm writing this down. So we'll because I always I would say this and then I forget. Okay So when is there anything that you that you that you would like to see or think they might surprise us with? Um, I'll just echo what chat said and just say that I think at this point any kind of software stuff Which is I mean software anything anything cool software wise will be interesting Although, I mean we've leaked they've leaked a ton of like, you know Computational videography and chakra features, but is there something That probably does have to do with ai software wise that software wise Software wise it Why do I feel like I'm Has a anyway, yes software devs person software good. Yes Software um one anything that you want to predict or anything you'd like to say I mean similar to when I think it's going to be a services conversation that is is going to talk about their investments in bard I'd love to see some conversation about expanding the role of the smartphone I mean google can be really good at that when they choose to do that But I'm a little anxious about some of the hardware tech that has been leaked For things like the rumors on desktop modes like we've had our hearts and our expectations raised on that with pixels Several times in the past only to have that uh fall through But I think we're all in a conversation right now foldables are a part of this conversation AR glasses are a part of this conversation and there's so much more we could be doing with our mobile tech That's the opportunity google has to shake their conversation Well, and that and that's kind of what leads into my my hope or prediction is that is that you know We're gonna see the pixel 8 we're gonna see the pixel 8 pro We're gonna see the pixel watch You know, we're you know new pixel buds. These are all new hardware devices that are in the ecosystem But they've already rolled out the pixel fold. They've rolled out the pixel tablet I've got my pixel tablet is the conversation going to be around what the pixel ecosystem is and how that works And how you bounce from one to another and then my last um kind of wish or uh Chaotic good or chaotic neutral uh thing is that give it all the movement with google podcasts and youtube and all this sort of stuff like Give me something with podcasts something somewhere in podcasts. We'll see if that comes through or not I mean run. I think you'll get it, but I think it'll be you too Oh, yeah, it might it might piss me off, but yeah Okay, just something then But but when isn't that isn't that the problem the google will will stage the way that they kind of try to Transfer their audiences to different services, but the headline is google's killing this thing And you're like, you know if google were better about getting ahead of that I don't feel well first of all they need to stop killing projects That's the main thing that's making that perception with consumers But this is you know We're deep into this stuff the the folks in your chat right now I've seen so many of these faces and other like live streams and other conversations This is the time that people who are just a little bit more on the periphery But still tech adjacent are going to get all this stuff confirmed They're not the ones digging through twitter for all the leaks and the rumors and stuff like that Exactly and if google can get out there and say like to ron's point Hey, you know, we really want to make this a more unified thing and it doesn't make sense for us to have these separate apps It takes some of the sting off of the hundred people that we're still using the google podcast app You know, it's it reassures them that they're being taken care of And I think that's a great actual segue also It's the one thing I want to mention before we move on which is that this is google's time on the stage And this is google's time to both talk to all of us who are neck deep in it and drive it But it's also time to talk to everybody out there who's making purchasing decisions and traditional news And yeah traditional news and coming after the apple event seeing the disappointment and the declining sales on iphones and like You know always wanting to pull market share over and so I thought it was interesting when uh, this came out this leaked video A uh Outlining google basically explaining how easy it is to switch to pixel Right and so, you know, I wonder if you know, I mean obviously because of this leaked video that came out You know, clearly they're going to be pushing it's so easy to switch It's no problem And like that sort of thing and how much of that becomes the story tomorrow For the conversation for people who are watching who aren't already on board with it, right? You know, we've seen you know, and in fact actually this is this is also a great. Wow. This this is a segue show I love it. I'm I'm gonna jump Michelle we're I'm gonna jump over pixel buds. We'll go back to pixel buds, but I think this is this is a great Segue I got to find it though, but we were talking about numbers. Yeah, and where is it? Let me find I'm sorry, but um Yeah, here it is. So the the google We talked recently we talked about like sales numbers and things like that Yeah, and the fact that uh and credit to nine to five google for pointing this out and bent over at nine to five google Who I saw recently and it was good to see him in person Um, he said the uh the google pixel is not the only smartphone brand that didn't shrink in north america in q2 Yeah, which which is you know, which is highlighting the report from cantalice Um that specifies on smartphone shipments Um saying that in q2 2023 google pixel shipments were up 1.2 million units And that's uh up about 60 from 800 000 in q2 a year ago Um, and that they doubled their market share in north america to 4 as well So like if pixels on the rise now is a good time to make a pitch to increase that even more Right. Yeah, for sure. So impressive that they don't sell a cheap cheap phone. No, yeah That's actually a pretty big deal when we talk about how the the market sort of shifts for stuff like that because usually we're talking about like The android market is made up of a significant number of you got it for free at an mvno low-cost carrier kinds of phones And this is this is pretty remarkable to see that turn from google in this economy Yeah, and as jj in the chat notes And we're gonna talk and we're gonna talk about this that part of this and and actually part of the the cost conversation is The recent news is that that google actually has gained Ground in japan, which is the third largest economy in the world and a huge, you know, you know, uh, you know playground for mobile and gaming tech and so iPhone has had over 50 market share in japan for like the last couple years since like q3 2021 And it it really goes back to conversations. We've been having, you know, when we talked about the kennelist report and just just the general Economic insecurity and inflation across the world. It's so interesting because you're right one Pistol google doesn't sell a cheap cheap phone But a little bit of difference having, you know, the a series having Not a you know, like and and there's like a lot of hullabaloo about the iphone 15 max, you know Basically being a hundred dollars more expensive because they got rid of like the base was at the 128 gigabyte model. So there's a lot of, you know movement in the world markets around pricing and so In terms of the, you know, ground that that google is gaining in japan, which again is huge It's not it's not big, you know, google's still not a big player But for having 12 12 12 percent share in japan, which is a six-fold increase over June last year That's huge. I mean that's that's that's that's six times the market share And a lot of that is again things that we've talked about that that we all have to deal with which is like, you know pricing And and also just consumer consumer trends like people are caring about cheaper phones better You know better terms in terms of updates and you know, the things that carriers are doing in terms of subsidies or not doing now And apparently like with the with the yen in japan being the look being the weeks It's been in like three decades It actually makes a pixel which again is not that much cheaper than the iphone Still a better option and actually I think they said specifically some analysts say specifically I think the 7a and the 6a are are really kind of driving That increase so it's all it's it all ties together and it's really The series have have historically done a tremendous job of pointing people towards The experience that you're really using Like how many people do you know by a thousand dollar phone? And they're really only using about 200 dollars worth of that phone right and the a series perfectly frames this like Daily driver communicator great camera kind of experience and that message I think has done has done really well in a number of markets Here what i'm really impressed to see though is that with the entire global smartphone industry taking a dive That google's marketing efforts and google's consistency on these new I just threw on five phones on my desk by saying the g word And possibly with all more listeners too sorry But that it's having a positive impact right now. They're not they're not holding steady They are showing growth and in this market. It is Incredible to be demonstrating growth right now google still has an uphill battle to face though when it comes to winning market share in the US especially because of the I know we weren't going to bring up rcs But because of the rcs slash i message debate Like um, I do think there are other factors This generation that makes the pixel 8 a more compelling reason to switch over as you saw the The ad that was leaked that shows us the various reasons that make it not so painful to switch over from an iphone But also the rumored seven years of support that makes it you know worth holding on to your phone for longer And also the potential freebies that we've talked about before like the free pixel watch Like google is going harder and harder on ecosystem And that's been one of the main driving factors of locking people into one ecosystem Especially on the iphone side, you know, you got an apple watch. That's it. You're an iphone. Yeah And apple watch is so good for that. I mean we've had those conversations about where us um It's been interesting because like hanging out with the parents of my daughter's friends. You know, she's uh She's gonna turn eight. She's in second grade. Um, there's this like mind share There are a lot of pixels at her school. It's surprising to see And there are iphone owners who know It's so funny I don't remember a time before where iphone owners have been aware of another phone's strengths But the iphone owners in our little circles know Oh, I really like the photos that so-and-so takes from there from their google phone I just can't leave my iphone and but but like because of the lock in and all this stuff And it's so funny like I was in the I was in the bagel store the other day And the guy saw my pixel and I was like, oh, is that a pixel and like was asking me about the photos and stuff like that And then um, my kids my kid's soccer coach texted me and I got the little rcs lock I in in google messages and I got all excited. I'm like, oh, he's not on an iphone. I was like, yeah Yeah, so it's just funny about that. Um, all right. Well, um, michelle We want to touch on the pixel buds before we uh move on too far here So tell us tell us the story the the tale of pixel buds All right, so ahead of the tomorrow launch event You know, there's going to be rumor to be two new colors of the pixel buds pro Which will be bay blue and porcelain But we'll also supposedly be getting a major update to the pixel buds pro feature set So, um, this comes via camilla. What you count? We always what you're this thing, but uh, camilla Again, yeah, yeah pixel leaker extraordinaire camilla Is discovered that the pixel buds pro would be getting several new features including conversation detection Hearing wellness clearer calls low latency gaming mode and a chromebook app So conversation detection, um, if you've familiar with aeropods pro It's similar to the conversation awareness feature on that device or the voice detect feature on the galaxy buds 2 pro Which i'm using right now This feature will basically automatically Change a and c to transparency mode whenever it detects you speaking so that you know, you can hear your surroundings as you're talking to someone Google's version of the feature is slightly different in that it pauses the media instead of just lowers the volume Which i find kind of neat But other than that it should work very similarly you can Supposedly also just tap your bud if it accidentally gets triggered to disable it And another feature is hearing wellness So this feature will try to protect your hearing by warning you if you've been listening to loud volumes for excessive periods of time So excessive periods define like 80 decibels over a 40 hour period If you've been listening for music for longer than that over that time period You'll get a warning that you know Maybe you should lower the volume to protect your long-term hearing and i talked about a similar feature that was baked into android 14 This seems to be a version of that feature that's specific for the pixel buds Um, the next feature is clearer calls, which will use a new technology called super wideband to double the bandwidth of voice calls So um right now a lot of voice calls, you know use low bandwidth For speech data being sent So you kind of get like not high quality voice, but with a super wideband you'll get Cleaner richer phone call audio and this supposedly uses the new lc3 codec Which is part of bluetooth le audio, although i don't know if this will require bluetooth le audio or not Camilla also reports that the pixel buds pro will be getting clear calling support Which is not to be confused with clearer calls. I know it's it's confusing Clear calling is the feature that's already present on the pixel phones Which reduces the background noise on the other side of the call so that you can hear the person talking to you more clearly And then the next feature is low latency gaming mode, which lowers the latency of the Audio that's you're using while you're playing a game so that you know There's a less of a delay between what you're listening hearing and what you're doing on screen Um, lastly, there's going to be a web app to manage your pixel buds pro from a chrome book Which is a nice thing, especially if you like to switch your buds between devices Cool I do want to note that for our folks watching the live streamer watching the video version of the show We're looking at both michael and camilla's Posts on x about this. I don't know if it still matters But we get the little what's happening trending box on twitter x whatever and already the pixel 8 is trending So That's got to be a good sign at least in general for Here on did I see on on your on your twitter page there that 60 hertz was also trending. Yeah, was that Um, I just Don't give them every single day 60 hertz pops up. Yeah, let's see that same argument It seems to be gone now. Um Is this about like the 15 having 60 hertz and why not 120 hertz? I I Don't even get me started on this All right, cool. Well, so uh, that's interesting update the pixel buds Well, I guess we'll find out tomorrow if this is all confirmed although looks pretty pretty good. So, um, we've got our wishes Our pixel eve wishes documented. We'll revisit them next week. Why do you won't be on the show? But you'll have to listen to hear us. Uh, oh, I'll be I'll be watching. Yeah, good And I hope everyone has a great pixel day tomorrow. I'm very very excited about everything Well from pixels to patrons Every week we allow our very very wonderful patrons Thank you for your support to choose from between three new stories that we will discuss And this week we had for our lovely patrons. Um, the google earth app getting a new app redesign closer look at what what what app what what's app is doing with their redesign a lot of redesigns going on and a third redesign Which is the winner this week with 40% of the vote Chromebooks interface looking more like android and this is about chrome os version 117 rolling out And just like pretty much everything else Google is just trying to material you up the world and that will include chrome os Um, so you will start to kind of notice more chrome os There will more material ui kind of uh functionality A lot of the you know settings a lot of the ui elements will look very much kind of like your little android 1314 e with Kind of switching to these like large color blocks Big pill like buttons and a lot of a lot of that is to take advantage of dynamic coloring Where it will draw accent colors off of your background to apply to your lovely new chrome os interface Um, and yeah, just a lot of different elements. It is interesting to note that the material uification of chrome os is a bit limited to the oas itself if you have any android apps on there They might not quite be rocket material you depend on what version is I think something that like thinks a lot of apps are stuck on android 11. Is that correct? Uh, I can't load the article right now still going from memory But this but you know material you google loves it. They're pushing it And so if you're the kind of person that really likes your material your material you Dynamic theming and you are someone who loves chrome os and wish it was wish it was a little more like android You're getting your wish and if you and this new update is rolling out in the next several weeks So, yeah, here it is. So it says, um Material you only works with chrome os windows, but not android apps That's because they're still running android 11, which doesn't support material You know, we presume that once the machines are updated android 13 They'll also show material you colors in android apps and that was fun You know what I need to play with covering this What do you need to play with what I what I need to check out is I believe Windows 11 subsystem is running android And I wonder how that might mess with app design Because it's it's funny to me that windows 11 is actually more up to date on android than chrome os is Oh, that just feels bad when you say it like that, but I mean it's weird right this whole year has been so weird It has been weird Now I don't think this is a bad thing in terms of Like everything should look the same right like material you was out there that should be like this this to me seems welcome Right. I mean like is there something I'm missing here that makes it less or No, I mean less is pretty cutting edge and it comes to design actually. Yeah, probably could use the help Yep Yeah, I mean that's just like a problem and it is good to see like I I will say that as a dev One of the problems that we tend to have is and that's this is not defending anyone too hard We all need to make an effort, but it's really weird You know they keep updating material and then in terms of at least for android devs Like the tools that we get to implement things like material you they tend to be quite staggered So we'll like for example right now my husband and I had this conversation where we're still some of us are still using material one two components because You know, there's a certain control or a certain thing that we need that isn't quite a material three so Yes, anything that is updated is really freaking awesome And someone had to work really hard on that is basically what I'm trying to say so it it is difficult But it's always interesting to see how much they know they have to keep their You know the best foot forward with design, but it's a lot of effort Both creating the components for third parties to use and also doing it themselves. So yeah fully on them for getting it done indeed Alrighty, so that was the patron pick you can go to patreon.com slash android faithful We thank all of our patrons for participating and for supporting us. You guys are the best. It's awesome We're welcome new patrons every week. Honestly, it humbles us that you like what we do So thank you everyone for your support Yeah, big big heart big heart. Sorry. I was making a big heart for the artistry. Um, all right So that takes us to hardware and it's very exciting because we got uh, we get it to talk about a cool foot Not just one of us, but two of us on the call on the show today Get to talk about the xiaomi 13 pro t or xiaomi 13 pro t pro So michelle take it away There it is One before I start before I talk about the phone itself. I want to talk a bit about the The event itself because you know, we can't talk about I didn't get to go to the event. So There we go, all right, so tell us You know, I could have stayed home like one and just gotten the phones which is always an option I mean, I would never say not to do that, you know, you get the phone. Anyway, you're gonna review it What why not right? But for me, you know, I live in houston and there's not much going on in houston in terms of like photogenic things Right, so I love going on these trips because berlin is infinitely more interesting and varied in terms of So so back it up. I mean, I don't have the context it so so there was an event in berlin like what what give us the Yeah, yeah, give us all Yeah, yeah, so xiaomi invited a bunch of us a couple of tech tubers from the u.s Of course from europe to attend their launch event in berlin Because they launched the xiaomi 13 t series in europe It was actually the first area where they launched it didn't launch in china And then they launched it later in europe now. It just launched in europe on september 26 so They invited us to attend the launch event like I arrived two days before And it was actually the day of the berlin marathon. I had no idea. It was pretty cool. Just arrived there I'm like, why are these why why is everyone lined up on the side of the road? Why is there a band in the middle of the street just like playing music and it's like 8 a.m Because like the hotel had an open so we just went out to go have like brunch And then all of a sudden on the way back There was a horde of people running through the street. So we literally had to play like human frogger just to get back to our hotel But yeah, it was it was quite an interesting event because um xiaomi actually like booked out this art gallery to show off like all the photos they took from The xiaomi 13 t pro like through a professional photographer. His name was jucep nucci And he's like a professional photojournalist and he like took photos of like people Living their daily lives in like the countryside in various parts in italy and spain and Etc. So like it's kind of cool to see the kinds of photography you can do from a smartphone and You know The xiaomi was kind of going really hard on their partnership with lyca because that's something they started with the xiaomi 13 ultra And they also brought over to their more Affordable 13 t line. I know xiaomi has a lot of phones. It's very confusing keeping up with like where their phones are Their 13 series is their top n flagship that 13 t is like a little bit below that Um, so this these these smartphones are available in europe starting at I believe Oh boy Starting at 649 euros for the 13 t and 799 euros for the 13 t pro and they both have Basically the identical design like you could not tell them apart if you just have them side by side They even come in the exact same colors and materials for each like specific model So even if you have you can't tell them apart just by one has the The fake leather the vegan leather and the other has glossy black. No, they both have the same available colors Same camera setups exact same sensors The only differences the main differences are that the 13 t pro has the mediatek Dementity 9200 plus and 120 watt charging while the non pro has the Dementity 8200 ultra and 67 watt charging those are the main differences between the two But otherwise they're basically the same phone But they both, you know have a lot pretty some pretty neat camera features They have the like a authentic and like a vibrant looks. I took a whole bunch of photos while I was in Um berlin and we have some of those to show off here. Yeah, if you're on the video show I took a whole bunch of photos. This is pretty cool. I don't know what that statue thing is But it's on the on the river on the uh, I forgot what river is called the spree river And you're the center of berlin like we got to see the berlin tv tower The mercedes-benz arena and part of the berlin wall Unfortunately, I didn't get to go up to the berlin wall itself. It's just our schedule was so packed Um, but yeah, it was pretty cool like touring around berlin seeing What xiaomi, you know it was doing in europe, which One thing I did notice that I was surprised. Yeah, it's okay. Anybody Yeah in europe actually I was surprised by the variety of phones people were using especially in germany like in the in the us Nine out of ten people are probably you walk around and they have an iphone, right? And like occasionally you find a pixel if you're lucky or or some or samsung most of the time But in europe there's so much more variety of what people are using and xiaomi is actually doing really well in europe So I can see why you know, they launched this phone in europe and they they went pretty hard on the marketing there Yeah, it's a huge opportunity for them because of some of the issues that the bbk brands have been having You can tell xiaomi has really been stepping up their their presence there because there's a little bit of a wedge There's a little bit of a gap The phone is a screamer The 9200 plus is a fantastic chip from media tech The performance has been fantastic and it's nice seeing some of those Other quality of life features making their way into the t-sears like michelle was saying it's it's always like their mid-year refreshers like their It's it's not like a poko or real me. It's not it's not a flagship killer, but it is like a half-year Cheaper high performance phone Um, but now we're starting to get so close I'm actually a little concerned like if you could shop a 13 pro on a sale You might get pretty close to the launch price of the 13 t pro and depending on what you need Like those differences are now getting finer and finer and finer So I know that a lot of these companies their marketing is kind of based on the novelty It's something new a new announcement new announcements is constantly bombarding you with novelty But when you're really trying to shop all the parts and pieces Do you want the better camera sensor? Do you want 120 watt charging? Do you want? It's like so granular now What what kind of decision you need to make when you're when you're trying to pick one or the other? And this is just in xiaomi's bucket let alone on the other brands that are making phones around that price point too Yeah, and actually uh xiaomi has I mean, I'm sure you're all familiar with the xiaomi ecosystem Like there's so many me branded stuff. It's just insane. You could probably build a house full of just xiaomi stuff Oh, yeah, not in the u.s. So we don't get like any xiaomi So apart from like some stuff Just a minute while I was at new egg where we were getting xiaomi laptops and xiaomi scooters And they were starting to talk about other like home goods and like iot stuff And then that was just before huawei got crushed and during that whole huawei Uh debacle when huawei was trying to land the mate 10 pro at at&t xiaomi was also added to the entity's list xiaomi had to sue the united states government To get removed from that list and they succeeded But they've never brought things back like they were just about I felt like we were so close to getting xiaomi tech here um it just seems like such a such a A missed opportunity to have some more competition there. We could have had the cyber dog. I saw they had the cyber dog at the event Which is like Why xiaomi? I only only god knows why they're making a robot dog, but xiaomi like why not? Okay So a bit about the actual phone just quickly. Um, I have the 13 t pro in the alpine blue model. I don't know What color do you have? Um, oh, I have the the sort of I don't know what the name is It's the black the piano right right the black actually I think it's called black super glossy Yeah I like I really like the alpine blue model because it has the vegan leather so it's actually quite grippy It's really nice to hold It is a pretty big I take take issue with the vegan leather. Just call it. It's not leather. Just call it like Pleather Pleather, yes, pleather. Yeah pleather was acceptable. Why not call pleather? Yeah I I because I've gotten to handle both but I I'm using the the glossy back For anyone who might be shopping this internationally in the eu I don't think the glossy back is finished as well as the vegan leather back It's things about like the way that like the back kind of curves into the edges of the phone The vegan leather kind of gives that a little bit more of a buffer So the transition between edges is a lot softer And that's one of the only things on this phone that I feel doesn't seem as nice as the numbered version The the numbered Xiaomi's feel just a little bit better pieced together Um, except for the vegan leather is almost indistinguishable from my xiaomi 13 ultra Nice nice So, yeah, um first impressions. Yeah, it's it's big and wide, but it's not very not super heavy So it is nice to hold like I mean the previous phone I was using was a galaxy z fold 5 So not many things are gonna feel as heavy as that. So I guess there's a little bit of perspective there Mu I is definitely a big departure from stock android But in my opinion, it's not as much of a departure as one UI Like one UI is a complete different beast in terms of like features at least me UI There's not as many features it is a big departure, but it's not as overwhelming as one UI It'll take some time to get used to And yeah, as you mentioned performance is pretty solid media tech. I've actually I don't think I have any other flagship Media tech chipset running devices like Before this the performance is of course very solid like it's just running stock and like Going through apps opening apps and everything is pretty solid I haven't tried any demanding games like Genshin impact Um the charging speed is ludicrous 120 watt like I I don't see myself ever actually taking advantage of 120 watts like Like actually needing it because I'm pretty sure even just 40 minutes of charging Oh, it's not about me It's about having it Not about meeting it's about having it Which is probably a good reminder I forgot to mention at the top of show those of you watching live You can go to af.showbot.tv and put in your picks for the show titles Because it's not about needing it. It's about having it But anyway Yeah, so so shall I I encourage you to check that out because it's yeah Because it's they estimate completely empty to fully charged in 19 minutes And it completely changes your relationship with a phone Like I'm not as concerned because it lacks wireless charging And I'm not as concerned with putting my phone down on charging pads because Five minutes plugged in is roughly a day of use not a day and a night But like a sun up sundown day And I don't want to wait around Wireless charging pad But yeah, the performance on the media techs have been really interesting There's only really been one achilles heel that I found going from vivos and Xiaomi's this year Which is like you got to go really deep in the weeds And you've got to have expectations that you're trying to use your phone like a laptop replacement And if if if you're that person who wants to go mobile like real nomad I'm editing videos from phones or maybe I want to record a podcast from a mobile device and do the entire thing From soup to nuts all on that screen It is performance is nearly indistinguishable from an hn From an hn2 So it's been a really good year for media tech Even though they don't always win these an2 2 or geek bench number score things When I can take an hour of podcast audio put some bumpers on it and squish it down into an mp3 And that takes two minutes I feel I feel we're good Maybe another phone can do it faster sure, but I feel that's Respect the like I don't know what else I would be asking for That situation from a phone So a quick quick question from the chat a asked in the chat What do you guys think is better in general Xiaomi or Huawei if you had to compare the two companies? It's hard to tell now, right? I mean It's there's no question If you're gonna if you actually want to use a phone as a daily driver Xiaomi is going to be better because Huawei doesn't have google apps Like I I actually bought a p60 pro while I was in europe just because I wanted a recent Xiaomi Recent Huawei phone and I wanted the good camera because like Benson has been like raving about the camera on that Yeah, it's a great and yes the the app experience is still abysmal on on the on emui like the The apps that it gave me as an option to install There were like basically no-name apps and then if I wanted to install any usable apps like I got I just got to sideload them right that's like something the average user is gonna do So no without question Xiaomi if you're outside of china I'd agree and and then also it's just the more current collection of partnerships, you know, what made Huawei so disruptive Um a couple years back where I mean things like having a relationship with Leica And that's now transferred and Xiaomi is doing that kind of work really well now And so I feel the the more exciting spot Of it's like Huawei is exciting because they're doing things we didn't think they could Xiaomi is exciting because they are the tip of the spear. This is some of the most bleeding edge Content creation photography and video Hardware I've ever seen on mobile devices at all the prices that they're selling mobile devices right now Well cool, and so I quickly Michelle I want to plug you you did a great write-up on the in the android reddit sub in the android sub reddit on reddit.com of your rundown of the of the new device in comparison to the Uh to the 13t and and all that great stuff so I encourage everybody to go go read that and check it out Really thorough really good work there and you got a trip out of it. That's pretty cool. Yay Hey All right, so thumbs up for Xiaomi 13t pro you guys are both you both like it don't like what's the final final word I really like it You might want to shop in your region if there's a 13 pro Near the price because those are very interesting. That's a very interesting fight My video is like because what Michelle was saying there are so many Xiaomi devices that get launched over the course of the year I worry that someone is just looking at the release date And well, that's the new one. It must be the goodest one And that is not what xiaomi is doing they have a there is a reason But I also feel like this year more than in some years past The t series is not as clearly defined a difference from the numbered series And so it makes that fight it makes that comparison a little trickier to wrap my brain around There's a consumer who is really going to be a good fit for the 13t There's a consumer who's going to be a really good fit for the 13 this year I feel there's a lot of venn diagram overlap yep Well, michelle any final word No, I mean this is my first xiaomi flagship in a very long time and I'm pleasantly surprised by the hardware and Can I just show real quick like if if I if I hold this up So this is one of the things that we're talking about with this new stacked sensor It people who know like if you're chasing after a kid Uh, you've got about six shots with a pixel before it starts slowing down the show. Oh my god. Yes So I'm just this is the 13t pro and I'm just gonna go Let's see. All right. That's impressive. It's just he's just taking picture after picture and it's Let's it's still going I'm trying to tap this is kind of reasonably quick as I can and it hasn't grayed out the Shutter on me. They actually highlighted this during the launch of it. I think they said it's 67 percent or 60 something 63 percent faster Uh at capturing than the s23 ultra like they specifically compared it Well, shutter lag on his amp song. That's a pretty low bar, but Even against other like camera centric phones, that's like I've never seen anything quite that responsive outside of a sony Because sony loves doing that high burst rate, you know eye tracking autofocus stuff like that But when I can do like a slideshow like I can do a With individual shutter presses not with like a hold the button take a lame burst of photos like that. Yeah Um When I can do kind of an eight to ten frame per second slideshow of my daughter running through a park And I can keep up with her just for a couple seconds of that that is pretty remarkable for this not being The most expensive phone that they're selling this year cool All right, so jaume 13 t pro check it out if you can um a couple other quick bits of hardware news Excitement of swirling around the one plus open A lot of rumors and a lot of leaks that are happening because of the one plus open And in fact a one plus open was spotted out in the world by uh in the hand of indian actress Anushka Sharma There was a photo taken of her in uh in public holding the phone Now whether or not this was planted or on purpose or an accident or a leak or whatever I know there was a lot of people who were saying it um it was it was staged that that we definitely thought it would uh You know it was more of a who holds their phone like that exactly like you make sure the branding is out the window Yeah, look at the camera lens that is so identifiable. Yeah, but um Uh, yeah, so it's getting getting excited though excited to see what one plus has to has to offer in terms of the uh in the foldable space We are very excited, but one kind of rumor to hit on that is that the um The one plus open and the oppo find n3 Have been confirmed to be the same phone Which is no surprise given the relationship between the two The founder of one plus an svp of oppo confirmed it And uh the the one plus open and the oppo find n3 Uh, apparently you're gonna have a hinge that's 37 37 percent smaller than the oppo find n2's hinge Um, which is you know progress, you know from Product over product, you know device over device to be expected But I imagine the hinge will be something that they'll be touting as part of the technology with the one plus open When we get the full uh breakdown of it, so Um, very cool. I'm excited to have another entry into the foldable space. Absolutely. I think it's great So anxious for this launch I because you know we talked about this before I think on the last time I was on I was the duo nerd and the pixel fold has helped Again, it doesn't quite scratch the itch of what I loved about the duo for multitasking But it seems like every iterative generation on these foldables has gotten me closer and closer to be going like Well, my duos can now just be museum pieces. I don't need to worry about them using them anymore And and I feel like what I've seen from oppo in this regard over the last year has been I think that's like it's been the the idea of this concept that I want to play with the most Especially that we're going to get a an actual american flavor of it. I'm really stoked for that Um, I I do want to flag in the chat because of a job referred to the uh, indian actress, uh, Saying it was a staged as taylor swift and travis kelsey um, which you know Well, you know the infel's pulling like huge numbers right now just because tayswift showed up at a game I mean and we'll see we'll see if she's so into football after her movie comes out I mean, no publicity is bad publicity I don't want to get into that we need taylor swift We need taylor swift to get the message. Yes, that's one. That's one iphone. That's one iphone will finally support our years We can get taylor swift in there with a pixel fold You know keeping track of the game sending rcs messages. I don't I should have asked I don't think I can share the photo but a friend of mine A friend of his was at a game and was sitting in a um, a club Uh, club suite not too far away from taylor swift So he sends my buddy this photo like oh my god I can actually from my phone camera zoom I can see taylor swift and my friend being the ultra star trek geek that he is Goes wait a minute. Is the old lady sitting next to taylor swift using a sony You're like dude, it's taylor swift. I know i'm pretty sure the lady there's holding an expiry That's very funny So if taylor swift could like pick up a sony, I'm sure we'd see double digit growth Sony's north american presence All right, and one more bit of hardware from samson Yeah, one more and in fact samson decided to kind of scoop the october 4th pixel picks It's they're scooping the pixel event because actually they have already announced fan editions of the s23 tab s9 and buds Which basically are Bringing you flagship flagship quality features at midship midship midship. Nope mid mid mid tier prices mid range prices So um, we when we get first put this on the rundown It was to be announced and they had kind of sent a little peeky Leaky peeky announcement in their x banner image of the new epic Uh, and we mentioned that we're going to reveal new versions of the s23 s tab 9 and their buds on october 4th But hey, you know what? It's already october 4th over in in india And the announcement was made on samsung india's account And so yeah, if you are a samsung fan, you feel like a samsung edition You got that for the s23 fe tab s9 fe and the buds I mean basically these are, you know, again touting similar features to the flagship just at more, you know, mid-range quality and step specs and prices That yeah, basically the galaxy s23 fe is a very solid pixel 7a competitor. I think the price is about 600 usd Um, and yeah rocking that x nos 2000 ship set if you're getting one in asia and u in the us The variant will carry the snapdragon 8 gen 1 6.3 inch emulated screen 8 gigabytes of ram up to 20 256 gigabytes of storage And in the rear camera, you've got a 50 megapixel primary with um optic image stabilization 25 sorry 12 megapixel ultra wide And an 8 megapixel telephoto uh with 3x zoom And yeah, you're gonna get a tab as well. Um So, you know, like kind of like the big thing with like this year's, you know Fleet of s9s was basically they're trying to bring the quality of everything up Um, but for those of you who didn't want to like pay a whole bunch for a new tablet You can do the tab s9 fe which has again mid-range internals. Um, it's rocking the x nos 13 86 to 8 gigabytes of ram 128 gigabytes of base storage for 600 usd, which Is a little more expensive than the pixel tablet, but you know Um, it is in this case actually using a lcd panel instead of those 120 hertz Amoled screens that all of the s9s that were announced earlier this year have um And yeah, and you got the buds as well to go with um, but yeah, check them out the fan editions if you are a samsung Galaxy fan and I really wanted to come up with a cute little like flagship ish, but it's fe not fi So flagship ish phones You got them Can I just say I There's nothing fan edition about like half the devices they've released under the fan edition name anymore It made sense with the note the original note fe because they were people who legitimately love the note seven And like we wanted to be using it make me defend samsung. I'm gonna. I I think Fan edition. I think they just don't want to call it light, which would imply quality version Like it's it's all marketing and branding right because this is essentially their a Right. This is the a for them, right? And so like, you know, so so like But fan edition it just I agree with you michelle. It's just like there's nothing fan about this, right? It's an unfortunate name, but i'm really glad to see samsung pivot back where I think samsung got so rocked by the pixel pricing That that's why we didn't get the fe 22 And they needed to scramble like it's not much of a fan perk to sell like a 700 dollar Compromised phone when again, we've had those conversations You go to your carrier store and if you have the means and you have the good credit You can just walk out the door with a galaxy s 23 like that's not hard for a lot of consumers out there So i'm really glad to see them pivot back and now this looks like appropriate competition This is why we need strong third place players. Yep. The the the pixel six the pixel seven Surprised not only tech journalists, but so many other manufacturers that now we're seeing the ramifications of that with more competitive pricing on these These uh, I don't in you're right. I don't know when what what to call them It's not a midranger, but it's definitely not a premium tier phone, but it's somewhere on the border between Mid and expensive. Yeah, just just replace fe with the word light and it all makes sense But I get the connotation i'm not wanting light because light from a market i put on my marketing hand for a second light Not as robust I have bad memories of samsung lights Back in the day. I would not want to revisit that word, but I think you're right michelle They should probably start looking at is it worth making this another letter Yeah, I know you get the psychology if it's a galaxy s 23 fe and galaxy s's are the good ones But it it also just adds to the confusion of which one would you buy and and it's not like 600 dollars is an impulse buy that It's still a decently expensive phone for a lot of people that used to be the flagship. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so Oh, man, yeah You know, you could you somewhat think they could just copy google and call it the a series But they already have an a series so they They could copy google copying samsung Well, just one of our axioms from hardware is hard to marketing is hard All right, well, let's get a wrap us up for hardware. We're gonna get into some apps news And I'm a little upset everybody You might remember about a year ago Google messages rolled out a nifty little thing at the top of the messages app in the UI It could sort your messages by personal and by business and it pulled out using the wonderful google ai it pulled out all of those otp messages and two factor of messages and Anything that was seen as from a business versus what was coming from your friends and all that sort of stuff and I loved it If you listen to our former show all about android, I heralded. I said, this is fantastic This is google thinking about us as users and then the other day I was putting my kids to bed and I quickly got a text message and I went to go look at it I saw those were gone and I went up That's weird and so that i'm trying to navigate getting a toddler into bed while trying to like look in the settings I was like, oh the app must have updated and it's turned off or something and I go into the advanced settings and it is gone And so I run to the android faithful discord Which you can get access to by being a loyal member on patreon And I was like anybody else run into this and it was pointed out to me that It was confirmed that the new google messages app that rolled out last week removed the nav drawer So if you remember this app had a nav drawer on the left side They completely removed it and in doing that they got rid of The the options to look at your archive and spam and blocked and they also got rid of the top organizational tabs that I love so much They are gone And my question here is simply why google why? I don't I don't love it So like so I don't think anyone likes this change No, and what's what's what's the what's the what's the point? So they got rid of the hamburger menu on the upper left hand corner It's now replaced with a google icon that does nothing and you get to the settings now by tapping your face In the icon in the upper right hand corner like other google apps, which is fine But why get rid of the smart sorting? I don't understand. It was it was so It was so delightful. It was like it was like a little flavor of inbox for text messages And I loved having that divided and I don't know how to Replicate that and that makes me sad right and it's Yeah, sorry this this year had like an interesting little history It was originally india exclusive because like In that country otps are so so popular the use for like everything That they like needed some way to filter them out for the main inbox But then they brought it over to the us and like everyone loved it like it was great It was great like categorized their inbox, but then now it's gone and I don't know why I I hope that it's an oversight because now when you go into the settings and into the section where you could turn on that window It is It is a very lonely settings in that section because I think there's only one option left which is Deleting otp after 24 hours, which is which is great, which i'm glad they didn't get rid of great But it's just like what is going on and so then I thought it was interesting because there there was There seems to be a lot of activity around google messages for whatever reason right so they made this this update they made this change Then they also started rolling out a redesign to the voice recorder aspect within google messages right it's getting a little more material ui and all that sort of stuff So we've got that kind of redesign happening and then also They they are testing a new conversation picker from the share sheet Which we love the share sheet right when that there's a developer. Yep And they're trying to give you more context though like it looks I mean it's hard to tell because obviously someone had to Yeah, privatize But I think they're trying to give you more context when you pay something So you kind of remember what you're saying to whom when you're trying to pay stuff, which is fair, but it's It's a lot going on In messages so much There's a lot of changes which going back to the pixel event is this Changes in advance of something that we don't even know about you know Like so i'm i'm i'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt as someone who loves messaging and loves Rcs and loves the google messaging app and has abandoned textura and all the other like third-party apps. I'm like, okay google I'm i'm i'm hitching my i'm hitching my uh, i'm sorry. I just did it. I didn't mean to do it Yeah, I just watched yeah, I just saw like three devices light up I looked around too and like i'm wearing headphones So you wouldn't have activated on my phones, but i'm so So used to it. Yeah, I apologize to everybody listening if I if I triggered your devices, but okay g I'm i'm hitching my wagon to you on messaging do do me right all right and give me back that that those those inbox-esque sorting features and messages because my text messages are a mess now It is a I got so used to having all the business crap Which I still want like I want to get the the text message telling me that my order is ready I can go pick it up great I still want that just separate that from my baseball chat with my buddies and my you know the other things like that so I'd argue that this is kind of like the material threeifying because I think something that you know with material three and I think was it 12 where Everything is getting bigger. Everything is getting I mean, I guess for a lack of way of better saying it seems a little more novice beginner friendly, you know, it has that feel of being kind of more of a I don't know less power usury interfaces Is what what I can say and like the challenge is like actually as material three has come out They've basically been stripping out things like cat. Don't do the hamburger menus Don't don't do dense menus like they really want people App design to kind of be stripping things down and trying to reorganize it to be as simple and as shallow as possible But that also means that when you have something that is a complex feature that is you know Something like sorting where you you need to show people information all of us app devs are like Where where do we put things now and so things like what happens is now you they have a feature that you look for example ron which Requires the space and which is not now not following preferred. You know much more simplest Like minimalist, you know design guidelines and now that people are like We put things And I think this is also left hand not talking the right hand in terms of design and and features But the google app there's materials There's a material team and there's all the teams that actually have to use it on the google app Yeah discrepancy there and that definitely reads like current google right now where I'm sure everyone in this room is met Like some of the most talented and passionate engineers and developers working for this company and then They don't get marching orders that line up with other divisions in yeah All the time but but like you were saying when and uh like clinton woodward Is saying in the chat don't dumb down the functionality if you want to streamline this that's fine You could still give me a messages pro mode Right or something to let me categorize this stuff like the way that I had it before And that's always one of the things that concerns me is the power users become evangelists for certain features and for certain Clients and these apps and these services And then you're like but now now I can't use it how I liked it and I'm gonna be A little deflated if someone's like oh, I just switched to a pixel. What do you think about rcs? And you're like oh, yeah, that's good. Yeah, well you missed when it was better though to your point Why not just make it an option? Why not make it an option like I literally had this conversation at work today in my day job We were talking about ui stuff and like two options. I'm like give the user the option and let them choose We have it's 2023. It's almost 2024 We have the ability to give them options and power users understand it and average users not use it like that's that's not Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, you can tell what I get really unfortunately shouldn't be that that hard Yeah, yeah, unfortunately with the removal of this feature You know, it seems that messages is no longer going in the direction of becoming more like gmail And now gmail is going in the direction of becoming more like messages because of the new feature that is starting to roll out today Which is emoji reactions. Look at michelle with the segue That's like that's like you just like honestly like scott pilgrim style you just podcasting unlocked Right like you just leveled up there michelle. Bravo. Bravo So according to 9 to 5 google gmail is in the process of rolling out emoji reactions in the android app Which will be also becoming soon to the ios and the web versions of gmail And as you'd expect this will allow you to react to emails using emojis So if other people are using gmail, they'll see those emojis underneath the email message But if they're not on gmail users, they'll be receiving it as replies to the original email Which oh my god, which is which is so so immediate immediate reactions By the way, and we're looking at an example of gmail where it's like somebody got a picture of a puppy And then all the emoji reactions underneath it. So two things one For better for worse, I I use outlook for my work for my day job And microsoft recently rolled out emoji reactions in outlook Which at least they're not as integrated in this like every now and then you'll see like a little like You know thumbs up in the corner like what is that? I'm like oh someone reacted and emoji was But this gmail execution of the emoji reactions of everyone on the thread at the bottom of the email This looks just like slack I mean Like when there's a slack when there's a slack post and there's like and you know hundreds of people on the channel Everyone's reacting in that way and it's a mess. It's like and if it's gonna you're gonna get Responses via email. That's So there are some caveats I know you're all worried about oh that one moment There's going to be a mass reply all chain and then like a thousand people just sending a reply Will like have their emojis spam to everyone else. Um, there's going to be some restrictions like Uh emoji reactions won't be supported if you receive an email via bcc If you're replying to an encrypted message or if an email is sent to a large group And plus there are some restrictions on me. Who's defining a large group by the way I'm not exactly sure. Yeah, but um, you can't send emoji reactions like infinitely You can't do more than 20 reactions to the same message And um, you also I think only 20 unique reactions are apparently allowed So, yeah, there's it's I can imagine some chains will be a mess I can kind of see why they're doing this because you know, if someone like an example shown above You just send a cute puppy photo, right? You don't want 50 different people saying nice photo cute dog, right? If they could just react to the original message with an emoji I mean situations like that. That makes sense. Nope. Nope. No email is transactional email Is I'm sending you information. I want to receive information. I don't want you email email I don't want hearts in response to it. I don't want anyone on a thread I have to have the option of up to 20 emoji reactions to the same message like that I will say that the correlation between people that I would have an email thread of this nature on where they would want Or where they would want to use all the reactions are also the kind of people who would not use a bcc Them's your relatives. They're just putting everyone in their address book on So we're all screwed y'all. I'm sorry. Love you guys. I see no upside to this We don't want it Do not want I do think it's interesting that that they're using the um, the undo send functionality to Allow you the same functionality underlying technology is what allows you to change your emoji reaction So you get the email you respond and then you've got 30 seconds to change it to 19 other responses Oh, man, and hopefully they don't put notifications for this crap because could you imagine your notifications? Saying like, you know, you're 15 knots like hearted this thing. Oh my gosh. Yep. Yep, exactly Yeah, no, and this is and this is like, you know and and packing and w in the chat says this is like discord or like slack or whatever It's like you're right. Michelle. It's like it's it's trying to make email Not like email and more like messaging but in like the in like the not community, but like the uh collaborative platforms You know, yeah, yeah, I feel like that ship sailed with google wave Yep Now email just needs to be email. And in fact, I'd like to get back to inbox style Like don't don't give me these cutesy like collaborative things. I have a dozen services that are cutesy and collaborative I would like to see email Get simpler And and that would be that would be great right now. I mean, I've been I've been a gmail Supporter for a long time and right now gmail is feeling very bloated right now. It's very very heavy Feels very heavy compared to what it used to be. So yeah, um, I've mentioned this before but I added reactions to the Trello android app and we did reactions back in 2017 to 2018 and even then it felt like it felt uh Too late or inappropriate in 2017 to an 18 to be adding like it just felt like a fatty thing to add reactions to it So seeing gmail at it in 2023. I'm like, oh you guys that's cute That's okay. No, so All right. Well, so speaking of email We like to get emails from you minus your emoji reactions You can email us at contact at android faithful.com. We do do do love to hear from you We read every email we get I try to respond to every email we get Um, if and sometimes responding is responding to you on the show So you gotta listen but if you get an email from me In response text wise, it means you didn't make the show. So just Hi there. So, um, all right. Well, when you've got the we've got one email this week We do and we have a lovely email from that originates from one of our lovely patrons, uh, jonah jonathan blade jonah jonah jonathan blade jonathan blade jonathan blade Anyway, um, cheers kids I'm so happy that last call on your discussions has been extended and that many more rounds are to be enjoyed Oh, that's too jonathan I wanted to shoot you a message that I posted in threads as well because in my opinion It's pretty important to know slash clarify Things may have changed for android tv, but your play movies content exists directly in the service as a super category With live tv apps and your library play movies and tv You also still have access to all of your purchase content inside of the youtube app In my opinion, anyone who buys digital movies should be using movies anywhere to sync it across all major services So that if any single service ever decides to shut down users still have access to their content I believe that ultimately google will incorporate all media into youtube But the hand-fitted process of piecemailing it over out over a decade is incredibly boneheaded I'm just so happy by that last sentence so much jonathan Anyway, anyhow happen to be part to be a part of team faithful donathan blade via patreon And this was in response to the shutdown of google play tv and movies Yeah on android tv which which a lot of people a lot of people wrote in or commented us that we were A little more flippant of that than we should have been or like oh, whatever. It's going away. I think except for me You were who uses it and I and I do say going back to what we're saying I think that was a byproduct of us being so beaten down by google killing things that when it happens It's just like well, there's another thing, you know, like it just you know, so and I do agree with john jonathan blade here that It's all going to be in youtube in like a year. Yeah, yeah And I feel again They they do this like little kind of cute blog post saying hey We're going to move this over and they don't do a very good job of getting out ahead Of all the stories because now you have to know the headline is going to be google kills fill in the blank Yeah, like they did with the podcast app like yes, we know it's going to be in youtube music Sure podcasts are going to live somewhere else. It's not like google's giving up on podcasts in youtube But google isn't leading that discussion very well They're letting they're putting out like this little simple cutesy like it's a press release and don't worry Everything's going to be fine And then there's like a vacuum of conversation surrounding it where other people are going to To kind of reinforce that image of killed by google Yeah I think at this point We've already seen uh google play music migrate over to youtube music You know youtube plus youtube music. We've seen google podcast migrate over to youtube We've seen google play movies and tv migrate over to youtube at this point if google launches any new audio visual visual service That isn't integrated with youtube expected to eventually be killed and migrate over to youtube That's the smart thing to do right? They should do that from the beginning But if they decide we're going to experiment with this new platform and it's not part of youtube I wouldn't get too invested on it. I would expect it to migrate to youtube eventually That's just the way things seem to be going. Yep. Yeah, so All right, cool. Well, like we said you can email us at uh Contact at android faithful.com or if you're a member of our patreon you can message us there We love to hear from folks. Thank you so much. Um, and thank you, mr. Bagnale for joining us. Uh, you are the best. Um, uh here on pixel eve I couldn't think of anyone better to celebrate it with I'm so stoked So where can people find more of your stuff your contacts? They say in the biz some gadget guys All over the internet. I I followed like four or five new followers on mastodon just while we were Livestreaming today, so i'm really excited to see some more people chatting over there But my home site is some gadget guy.com my youtube channel is youtube.com slash at some gadget guy And I just uh, you'll also see me as a gun for hire on a number of other publications and podcasts and stuff like that So I I get around I would like to take just one extra second from my last appearance on this podcast to just remind people That apple still has not updated the iphone To support location trackers and they are still Holding this market hostage for their own benefit to sell air tags I have sent some queries to the ftc and to the california state attorney general And I feel this is a conversation that without any disclosure from apple or a timeline That this would be an anti competitive and anti consumer move If anyone else would like to help reinforce that conversation with your local and state governments I'm just saying we're getting to that point where some disclosure is probably warranted Hot damn preach one preach love it. You're saying apple needs to get the message. Is that right? It works. It works. It needs to Send the message just so when we can expect them to contribute to a standard that they themselves through a hand grenade into location security and privacy So it would be nice if they work on multiple levels getting the message. Yeah All right. Well, Juan, thank you so much for fighting the good fight and thank you for being our first second guest I'm so stoked. This is so good So so I know everyone's going to do their rundowns. We were talking about at the beginning of the show Is anyone here or like are you guys going to be doing any live tweeting streaming for pixel? Oh my god, we completely forgot to to hype it at the top of the show. We will be in fact. Um, Michelle Yeah, why don't we uh, go around the horn. Michelle. Where will you be tomorrow after the pixel event? So I'll be live on dtns at 12 45 p.m. Pacific to I think 210 p.m. Pacific I'm talking about the after the show because obviously at that point the main google event will have already been done So I'll we'll be doing a post show discussion. But when will be Doing it live. Yes with with with uh, average totally average not special audience member Jason How I'm going to be on twit.tv slash live starting at 7 a.m. Pacific 10 p.m Or sorry 10 a.m. Eastern and we're going to cover it live and we will be there for color commentary on all planning On the pixel event. So yeah, check out. Check it out twit.tv slash live Yep, so went on twit with jason in the morning for the event live the live commentary and then michelle on daily tech new show um that afternoon you can watch that on Twitch.tv slash good day internet you watch it live at 4 p.m. Eastern or you just subscribe to dtns and listen to it afterwards I know I will be um, I will not be doing anything But uh, I might be I'm supposed to I was talking about I was talking to Miriam about going on to Miriam's podcast Her next episode comes out over the weekend talking about the google event And so I will promote that next week when it's out and you go go and listen to that But lots of talking about google lots of podcasting with friends all good stuff One will you be doing anything anywhere? Or you're just gonna be watching? I was asking literally just because I would like to know where to go tomorrow So if if I wasn't gonna have like a good home for like some good chatter and discussion during the event Then I was probably just gonna be like cranky on threads or mast I don't think live tooting is a thing, you know their toots I And I just don't want to Yeah, I but you know what I mean michelle? It's like it's not set up to just have like, you know threads don't really work very well And that's just doesn't work that way. So I would rather just hang out in someone's chat right I will be posting live About android and software releases tomorrow, you know during the event was worse We're assuming based on the leaks that and unfortunately launching tomorrow So I will be posting a lot if that does happen So if you want to, you know Follow me on twitter at michelle ramon to see what is new in the world of android. You can go ahead and do that and uh Also, if you want to support me, I also have my own patreon at michelle ramon. I uh do semi-regularly uh Like exclusive posts related to the world of android But also if you just want to join the discord where we chat a lot about google phones android and all of the stuff You can support me to get access to that discord And also just if you want to support the work that I do because it takes a lot of work To dig into android and figure out what's going on because google doesn't make it easy with how many things they have going on There's just yeah, there's just so much going on that it takes a lot of work and a lot of time So I'd appreciate if you could support me. Cool. Awesome. Michelle. Thank you so much All right win working folks find you aside for twit twit tomorrow. Yes Well, um, I'm normally here and if you haven't caught the live stream Then you don't notice that one and I wonderfully color coordinated today I was going to make a joke about the new coral colorway. They were going to introduce for pixel eight yada yada yada But you want to catch the live stream or the vod at least to see how lovingly Or not lovingly, but how uh, how often awesomely we color coordinated. Um, otherwise you can find me on my website Right on the typing dot com. I am an android dove even though right now. I'm a little bit independent like But you can find any talks And related code slides uh and video for those talks on my website website randomly typing dot com Excellent excellent. And uh, yes, I will be uh, you can follow me on all the socials. I'm ron xo on all them out there Um, I will be working my day job tomorrow during the event. I'm very upset. Um, because I'm in new york I could have gone to it, but yeah, um, but if you're looking for another podcast That has nothing to do about anything with android, um head over to ifanboy.com where I talk to my two buddies About all things tv and movies in the latest episode of mediasplode Where I talked about uh, watching the show this fool on hulu, which is very funny Takes place in south central l.a. Uh, michael imperial is in it very good Um, and then we go in we go in depth on the cancellation of winning time on hbo Um, uh, yeah, I really liked yeah, so go to ifanboy.com because subscribe to the podcast there Check it out and stay for the comic talk that I don't participate in but um, good So um, good stuff. Um, well, thank you one so much for joining the show. Um, happy pixie Yay, um and want to remind everybody you can go to android faithful.com where you can subscribe to all of our different spots Where you can subscribe you can see previous episodes. We've got the video embedded on there You can watch the video episodes or go watch them on youtube or um, or wherever your your your podcast of choice to listen to Is there it's all on our hub at android faithful.com And we appreciate everybody for going to that website and doing the whole thing. Um, so that's going to wrap us up for this week This podcast records and releases every tuesday night So like I mentioned be sure to subscribe at android faithful.com email us at contact at android faithful.com Have a wonderful pixel day tomorrow. We love you all and we will see you next week for our breakdown of the pixel event Until next time we are the android faithful