 Good morning, good evening depending on where you are in the world and a warm welcome to this accelerating digital trade part of the Davos agenda and most welcome. You know as we start this I'm not going to ramble long but as we start this just think about it if you'd have said to any of us any of us that oh guess what you'll be doing these panels and it'll be all of you will be digitally zoomed in and you'll be fine and this that and the other and your acceleration of e-commerce will have been you'd have said you were mad nobody in their right minds would have assumed that any of us would have been doing as much as we are digitally even though we all knew that this was the way of the future so today's issue today's discussion point is as simple the objective to explore how digital trade from e-commerce to data flow to digital payments can be a driver of inclusive growth now our panel that you have here and we will be joined by more our panel is par excellence we have al kelly who is with us al kelly who is the chief executive officer the chair of visa uh usa good to see you al thank you for taking the time Eric Eric Juan is the founder and chief executive officer of zoom video communications Eric it is good to see you and we're using your technology so I just gotta say and I every time I speak to somebody from zoom I always feel obliged to say thank you thank you know this technology was around for some very strange purposes which was used before the pandemic but the fact that you've jumped on this I think uh Hanzadeh Dogen Buine I apologize uh the is the chair of Epsi Burada in Turkey good to see you ma'am thank you and the vice minister of trade uh from the ministry of foreign affairs in Chile is with Zora Derigo Yanies is with me so good to see you all right one and all what I don't want this to become let's start what I don't want we are not here to discuss whether digital trade is good or bad or growing it is here and it is growing so that is our starting point and I think we start I'm going to start with you Eric because on the services side you have railroaded yourself from a small medium company to a mainstay of the provision of global data and services what's been the biggest challenge? Richard thank you so much first of all I'm uh today's uh you know the uh technical support I want to make sure today's zoom called this smooth so don't worry about that I think try to pandemic crisis you know we were you know focusing on serving a lot of enterprise of various government customers this pandemic crisis completely changed the way for us to serve our customers the customers users came from everywhere from almost every more than 200 countries including K through 12 schools the biggest challenge you know came from one thing how to scale our you know service all the night from 10 million daily participant in December 2019 to almost 400 million daily participant that 40 times more usage what we can do differently to keep delivering happiness to every user to care about the community to help people stay connected that's the biggest challenge right but now you've got there we'll come back to you in a second to find out what's the challenge of staying there uh hands out everywhere we go we are told that we are all buying more online now as an e-commerce operation you've obviously seen that what is your what do you take from this how do we grow it for inclusive growth when it's already growing the pandemic really accelerated the e-commerce growth I mean in our region Turkey and the greater surrounding region before the pandemic the e-commerce penetration was around four to five percent today it's around 12 percent so it's you know tripled and at Hepsiburada overnight from a responsible private company we became an almost you know utility company so essential for our customers and merchants that we became a lifeline and we had to scale we had to onboard thousands of employees within a matter of days and in you know it was it was challenging because while everybody was going into lockdown we were asking our employees to work overtime but we stood up to the challenge it's you know the first thing was the safety of employees then of course we helped our merchants we lowered our commissions we you know we we could have seen it as an opportunity for further growth or profitability but from the our funding in our DNA we've always been a purpose-driven company against you know technology is about disruption but from the beginning we said we will never be about disruption we would lead the digitalization of retail industry we would lead the digitalization of payments but not disrupted so it was a very it was in our DNA and that's how we helped all of the brands you know the big shopping mall brands we lowered our commission we so it it was a very cooperative soul company and Zade just talked about the the payment side of it now to a large extent whether it's digital analog or somebody walking into a store with a credit card or a debit card you're going to be involved in it in some shape or form so Al Kelly visa how how do you perceive the change that's taken place well first of all I'd certainly echo what Hansata said that the I think we had in the last nine months three to five years of acceleration of digital in many many forms shopping video conferencing via companies like Eric's but I think going back to the question you posed to us at the beginning Richard yes digital trading is happening and it's growing my question is is it happening for enough people in the world and is it happening fast enough I would argue that COVID-19 has exacerbated the divide between those that have and those that don't have I think large larger companies have done better than smaller companies developed countries have done better than non-developed countries or emerging countries and individuals with some means have done better than people without means and I think the question is how how do we deal with this inequality and how can we grow thing how can we grow the digital world faster and include more people only about 47 of the people based on our numbers have access to e-commerce platforms and that that's great but that means more than half the people in the world don't and so they're not necessarily enjoying this ability to go out and shop online and that's an excellent point for us to take to you minister in enjoying all right so you have the responsibility you've got all these people you've got Eric with his zoom and you've got under with the e-commerce I'll with visa and everybody's piling in but you want to you want to promote this acceleration at the same time minister as recognizing the exacerbation of inequality that I'll talk about how do you do it well it's a complex question because it's very broad in in the first thing that we need to do is rush on writing the rules that this new trade will need so that's why we're doing efforts such as the digital economy partnership agreement which was you know first of its kind with New Zealand and Singapore and new more recently the future accession of Canada and there is where we need to address trust which is somewhat the binary concept right either you trust or you don't and through transparent effective measures they need to protect them from you know when doing trade you know through e-cars so due to to either digitally ordered or delivered we need to reinforce also interagency cooperation between our countries and build a wider trust environment in key elements that's not going to happen that's not going to happen because I come to you second minister because I mean you have governments that are prepared to attack digital industries in one stage in one country or another for domestic purposes therefore never mind the trust of the companies it's the trust of the regulators and governments that's also a question well that's why it's so important to address you know the ruleset and that is why like minded countries like the ones that we mentioned also talk about principles when we think of the internet as an open space and for instance in concrete the prohibition to establish you know server localization when doing you know digitally enabled transactions we want when we need a cross border flow but we need to enable with rules and that is why we are advancing in this on digital economy advancing regulation with innovation and also negotiations like the WTO one Eric and so I'll you're looking to join in yeah so I'd say there's three things that governments need to do and I recognize Richard you're probably right that some not all governments are going to come along number one if we try to harmonize all data privacy and protection rules globally that'll take a hundred years that that would be a complete waste of time and not something that we should do secondly we have to encourage we have governments have to encourage cross border data flows through a series of trust amongst them the reality is that everybody had most most governments are developing sensible privacy and data protection rules that doesn't mean they're all the same but if they're sound and they're principled governments who are receiving data should respect the data flows that come in from those countries that have sound and pragmatic rules and lastly you can't allow carve outs for financial data localization which is attempting the temptation that many governments have and I would say that the vice ministers country in Chile has done a very interesting trade agreement with New Zealand and Singapore where they're accepting of each other standards and they're accepting in fact of industry standards not even standard set by by governments then they're they're they're not forcing the data localization of of information and I think in many ways that's a very very positive step forward that Chile has taken and I don't know whether the minister vice minister wants to comment on it but and that sets some ground rules it sets them I should say a framework for what's probably the best trade agreement on data in the world which is between Singapore Australia but but arguably alpha for strong reasons because the data flows on that pipe between those two are monumental in that sense and I'm going to come to Eric but minister do you want to comment on that particular agreement that I was talking about well yes and thank you Richard for us there but not only address traditional issues on digital trade or conventional provisions such as you know in interoperability of e signatures and consumer protection but also new rules and these new rules are digital inclusion AI encryption these kind of of issues that we need to address and also talk about regulatory sandboxes fintech competition policy and what's important about this next generation agreement is that it's not just a chapter in an FDA it's a comprehensive agreement on digital economy that address a trade you know that is digitally done and delivered while also the physically delivered and on these next generation issues which at the end of the day talk about these sound rules that we need to work on and start working on another I would like to add something about cross-border a digit like digitally trade when in the traditional trade countries have multilateral agreements linked to their national industrial policies but when you allow a consumer to order anything he or she wants from around the world and deliver it to her doorstep in small parcel as an independent nation how do you protect consumer rights how do you protect copyrights how do you make sure there are no arbitrary tax advantages in digital trade you can't but you need to we can't let digital trade have arbitrary tax advantages or regulatory advantages it just then it's not going to be inclusive then it's not going to benefit the the similar amount to each nation it's going to be very again we're going to see this power concentration rather than making it more widely available for everybody okay but we have a real-life example at the moment for example brexit has shown the difficulty for UK consumers to now buy things in the EU to be delivered in the UK or vice versa with the customs and regulatory and and extra charges Eric we have a pro we have an example with the UAE and zoom where for naked this is me speaking that doesn't mean out for naked protectionist purposes that your operation is banned for telephony purposes in in the in part the UAE I think you are still right I first of all I think we all agree you know digital trade the digital transformation is very important however if we do not have an organization in charge of worldwide digital trade let's say an UN I'm an engineer always think about the scalability otherwise we need to work it together with each country or country they need to work it together with other countries that's not a scalable we need to have a policy very well defined every country every business every government they got to do adopt to that right otherwise you are still right for that problem will take us a lot of time resources which you may not get resolved right so that's a challenge it's a challenge but I'll I know no one would ever call anyone on this panel naive but is it naive to believe that there can be an overarching agreement that doesn't take 20 years to put in place so that it's obsolete before it's even in force the speed of change is far faster than anything that minister Janyas can negotiate well I'm a believer that markets take care of things I think trying to negotiate a global deal that every country is going to agree to is not going to happen that's my opinion and the reality is there the people will start transacting where they can transact they'll start shopping when they can shop and the countries that open up and have good digital trade rules are going to be the countries who are going to get the business and they're going to give the business to their small business owner to be able to export their particular goods and other countries will start to see that they're losing out and and this might take place over a decade as well but markets will dictate this and to the the point that Hanzadi made you know there are there are global networks like visa so if somebody buys a good uh in Malaysia they live in in france they buy a good in Malaysia and they buy it on their visa card we're going to stand behind them that's what we do we we left part of our job as a network so there the reality is we can help protect the consumer's so I'm I think that the free markets will take care of itself the countries that will have good trade policies will will do better than those that don't right so Abbas Shubat has just written in the chat room uh miss Dogen Boyner is showing us the goal mr Yanis is giving us the path and messes Kelly and Juan are giving us the tools one foot in front of the other good point so what's the next step how do we let's say as I remember I said we're not discussing whether it's going to happen we know it's going to happen what is in your view uh we'll start with you minister what is the next incremental step that needs to be taken I think uh the scale of this for SMEs and the regular people what we've seen in this pandemic is that uh what was expected to to happen in years happening within weeks and so we we've got a huge opportunity to democratize trade but also a huge challenge with this you know what has to happen what has to happen oh you have the rules now we need to start working and implementing these rules and this is why this agreement that already exists it's signed it's there and that is why it's so aligned with the needs of the market and why has it created so much traction and that is why it's the first of its kind so now we need to get our hands down and work and making you know things flourish and happen okay so Eric what do you need to happen next zoom is ubiquitous I look I always make the joke we will all go to our grave with somebody saying I mean it is the phrase that we sort of yeah but so what do you need now to take zoom to the next level regulatory tax wise technology wise give me the thing you need I think just focus on focus on technology innovation as you mentioned right and you you know demonstrated right where you are on mute if you can talk you know we can leverage AI we still can't understand what what you are talking about right after this meeting is over automatically generated a meeting summary right all new richard we did not see each other for long time you know even after we can stay connected with zoom I cannot give a hard right all those innovation will happen in the next several years the innovation can truly drive productivity to make the zoom experience better than face-to-face meeting well very exciting in the next several years for innovation and very the excitement is there you set us the goal I'm not sure I do you want rules of the road or do you want restrictions on others I want I mean I don't want restrictions on the others what I want is what do my world view is that I'm a tech enthusiast you know I I mean I'm a technology entrepreneur I believe in globalization I believe in free trade and international trade but whenever we talk about from a point of a developing country it should not always be seen as protectionism or anti-globalization because I want to carry my merchants to cross-border trade as well but the next thing I believe companies has to take more responsibility like visa or like Hepsiburada no one can sell fake products on my platform even though there are you know hundred millions products we make sure we are behind what we said so I believe in the next era we have to see corporations we can't only talk about free trade no regulations and technology is going to change everything and no you know yes technology will change everything but if you want technology to change everything for better to be more inclusive then we need to find a balance between corporations government and seasons I'm not asking you know if technology is citizens governance that means always seeing the rampant and I know it's a slightly different type but it's germane now are we seeing let's say what we're seeing at the moment with game stock don't worry I'm not gonna I'm not gonna ask you what you think of game store or anything like that but are we seeing at the moment digital and a digital wild west that needs to be reigning I don't know that I want to draw our conclusion for what's happened in the last 48 hours you know the reality is that sometimes they're going to be bad actors sometimes things aren't going to go perfectly you know unfortunately planes crash and we still want to have people fly around around the world and hopefully we learn from every one of those things video conferencing goes down we don't want to we certainly want to keep promoting video conferencing the reality is that you asked me what I want to see I want to go back to my inequality point we need more people around the world connected to broadband number one because too many people are outside the financial mainstream we whether we're individuals or we're we're running a big company like I am or or Eric is or Hanzata is we all should want more broadband access and then this is about public private partnership there are roles that Eric's firm can play my firm can play Hanzata's firm can play working with governments and again I believe in free markets and the reality is that there will be governments that will want to have a good public private partnership we will develop good trade policy they will develop good trade policies they will work with private sector companies to make sure that consumer is properly protected and again I think for instance visa has a big role in that in terms of how we act around the world we operated every country in the world but the five the US has sanctions against and we every one of those countries is important to us and every one of the customers is important to us regardless of where they are in the world I think to you minister do you sometimes feel that you're behind whatever curve there is and that whatever domestic issue or policy you want or you feel is necessary the reality is in individual countries don't matter as much in a global world where e-commerce flows on services and on goods and we'll naturally find its level cause it does it that's what's the risk that we can that they're facing and what the problem is at the speed even you know with the DEPA I'm sorry to sort of promote this agreement so much but we talk about AI cybersecurity this might be concepts that you know might be outdated pretty so and we need to keep advancing very fast and the reality is that the main risk is at the scale of e-commerce we SMEs and with the lethal right you know that we at the end of the day throw them out and then we face a trust meltdown because they don't have the tools because they don't have the rules trust to operate in markets and make their lives easier and that's the the problem that I think we face and in countries like mine and developing world this is even you know more severe because we might be left out of this revolution and we I think are doing our job in setting the rule book but this is something that it's extremely extremely fast and the pandemic has only you know made it make it faster