 Can I just say something? I'm really happy that Rahul Kamal has joined us on the show. At least he would have said Borya dude. Oh my god, the video is going to have to get cut out. I think you made a very fair point and cricket could be used, you know, in diplomacy. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of 575 Ounces. This is EP number what guys? This is EP number 4. Not bad. So of course, we're joined in studio by Vaibhav Raghunandan and a freshly shaved, freshly shaved, shining Sidhan Dhani. Sir, burning question to you is, which part of your wife's beard did you have to shave? I should have prepared for this answer. Anyway, nonetheless. It's my once a year. It's my once a year summer cleanse. Summer cleanse, huh? So it means now back to the... For a year. Like a year. Thanks. Okay, brother. In this episode, we're going to talk about... Are we done with this vitally important subject of my facial hair? Is it done now? Finished? No, we'll put it to bed. The next episode also, when you get a decent stubble going. Friends, what's going on in Afghanistan today? Because generally, you know, we're focusing on the teams that are doing well. The big matches like India-Pakistan, which is a bit of a no-show. Vaibhav not agreeing with us. But the thing is like Afghanistan, I think everyone will be in agreement that... Irrespective that this is their second World Cup. They have been considered as the minnows already before this tournament started. They have still disappointed even further beyond that. Five matches played, five matches lost. And there's just so much shit that's been going on outside of the field for them. Which is sort of plays into what is happening on the field for them right now. So first and foremost, we were talking about the 10 Nation Tournament. And the point of having a 10 Nation Tournament is that, you know, the level playing field is maintained. That every game is tight, no game comes across as, you know... That means, it's just a bit of a no contest. I.e. England taking on Afghanistan. They missed out on 400 by 3 runs in that match. I'll tell you one thing, I'm sorry, I'm digressing a little bit. Which ever player we talk to, whichever player we do a show on. Whenever you say, okay, now you're playing Afghanistan. Isn't it going to be a very easy game? Not a single player says no. You cannot take them lightly. You have to take them with all seriousness because they are a good team. They are that. I think what Afghanistan lost by 150 runs that game. 150 runs, man. And Owen Morgan had scored 148. So if they could have caught him, then it could have been possible. He was joking that day. But what was he hitting? I know. But it tells you a lot about Afghanistan's bowling. A lot about Afghanistan's approach. Just to put into perspective what all has happened outside of the field. A month before the World Cup. Their CEO was changed. The CEO was very close with all the players that formed a big part of this team. Coming to where they are. Then the captain of this team was changed. The captain of this team was changed. After that, their opener. Who seems like he's had two suites. He was asked to go back in the middle of the tournament. Then the opener, when he's gone back in the middle of the tournament, has cried foul by saying, Look, someone from the board has forced me back. I am perfectly fit. So there's nothing wrong with that. Then in all the five games, not once has Afghanistan come with an unchanged 11. There's no consistency in their 11. And then, of course, there's Rashid Khan. All hopes were on Rashid Khan. What he would do. And Rashid Khan's defeat in this World Cup. I honestly feel that this could be a game changer for Rashid Khan. Because he's honestly a champion bowler. He's a top quality bowler. This will force him to take a step back. And you know, generally when you have so much defeat on the field, sometimes you take a step back and say, What can I do now? And that can enable a player to go to a bigger, higher, better level. But can I also just say that Rashid was also led down in the previous game against England by some really bad fielding. Shorty fielding. Yeah, I mean, very early Neon Morgans innings, they dropped him off Rashid Khan's bowling. And he must have just been sitting there and thinking, I didn't have this in my IPL. My IPL teammates don't have this kind of fielding. And it's okay. I also think a lot of people have made fun of how many runs he's conceded in this and that. But a lot of leg spinners, a lot of wrist spinners, they've come up in his defense and said, This happens when you're, especially with this bowling style, he has, which is that he gives a little bit of flight. He has a fairly predictable one delivery. So it happens sometimes. It was just a bad day. But yeah, they have been shown up very badly, Afghanistan. And I think in terms of just the cricket, South Africa also lost all the games. South Africa have lost. They've won one game. They beat Afghanistan. Okay. That's fair. Doesn't speak very highly of them, given their history and background in the game. But Afghanistan's focus is even I forgot to mention Phil Simmons, who is their coach right now, the great Phil Simmons of West Indies. He said that he would not renew his contract already. He said, He also said, As soon as the World Cup is closed, I will open a pittara. I will open a pittara about how this board is treating the players, how this board is trying to, you know, always meddle around with what he's trying to do. And with the selection of the players. So even that is going to open a pittara. I think the board... Clearly the vibes in that team are not good. Because honestly speaking, if you talk about the Afghanistan prior to the World Cup, you would always say that irrespective of when or lose, they fight. They always give it a fight. In the body language, they see that they are fighting, whether the skill levels are not there or not. In this World Cup, that fight is missing. And my guess is that fight is missing because the unity in the camp is missing. Of course, end of the day, the ones that we are seeing and we can criticize because we see them are the players. But because of all this background drama that's going on, I don't really see how the players are essentially... I mean, you're saying a lack of unity in the camp. It seems to me that it's more a case of the players having taken the fight to a different plane where they are engaged in a fight not so much on the pitch, but with their own board and how cricket is run in that country. And because for what it's worth now, a little bit of investment is coming into Afghanistan and cricket predominantly from India. Amol, for example, being the sponsors of their national team. I mean, we've given them... They play in India. Yeah, they play, of course, yeah. They're Adun and Greta Noida being their home ground. So the fight has become... I mean, I guess if you're looking at it from a point of view of being one of the bigger or top 10 cricket playing countries, Afghanistan is now there, right? So automatically they'll eventually end up playing more and more cricket. If things are done, if things proceed. Because everyone in the region is keen on... No, no, that's actually the... No, no, because Afghanistan, like from a, I suppose, strategic geopolitical perspective is extremely important to all the countries in the region. Everyone wants to be friends with Afghanistan. But nobody wants to... Nobody is playing cricket in that. No, she's playing cricket with them. No, maybe not yet. These things also take time to happen. But the fact that, for example, India is extending training facilities to them at perhaps no cost or a cost that's borne by the BCCIA, these are diplomatic sort of maneuvers. It's a digression. But what I was, I guess, the point that I was trying to get at was that, Afghanistan Board has a little money now. And because of this, obviously the power that is in power, that's happening everywhere. That's what I'm saying. So that upheaval process, that process will happen. And hopefully at some point, if this legendary former cricketer like Phil Simmons comes out and says whatever he does, and he has evidence to back it up as having been in that position and gone through the process, I'm sure he'll have emails, whatever, whatever. But he's also saying that because he's had a horrendous campaign as coach. So if he's looking for a job elsewhere, which of course he's looking for a job beyond Afghanistan, he's saying, This is a major part. At least it comes with some level of authenticity, of course. And when you say horrendous sort of 10 years coach, I don't know, sorry, how long he's been the coach or whatever. But if Afghanistan have gone through the qualifying process as the top team in that process, I think, then obviously whoever is the coach hasn't done so badly because they're not a top tier nation. They're a second tier cricket playing nation. No, they're a full member. No, they might be a full member. But it's a new sport for them. They're getting there. Actually, I find this whole thing a little funny, I must also just say that they... Full members and half members. It just makes me feel like I'm insane. No, but he's talking about more games. How about drawing, like the story of this World Cup has been Bangladesh. Hands down. Because Abhi, the big boy, his story hasn't come true. I unfortunately left my stuffed tiger in the car. But, yeah. But the thing is... He's been dying for two days. He's been making this stuffed tiger joke. That joke. I hope you guys enjoyed it. Sorry, yeah. No, but what is the numbers of games you were checking before the show? What are the kind of games, amount of games that Bangladesh has played and now Afghanistan? Bangladesh in their first World Cup was 1999, again in England. And between the period of their first World Cup and the second World Cup, they played 54 ODI matches and they won two. They won two. They won two. In the period between the last World Cup and the beginning of this World Cup, Afghanistan have played 65. And they won a decent number more than... Yeah, they won series. Yes, they won series. But the difference is that Bangladesh, when they were playing, they were playing sides that were better than them. Always. Almost always they were playing sides that were better than them. Whereas Afghanistan, in the last four years, have played the teams that are playing this World Cup, which are the top 10 nations in the world. They've only played these nations 12 times in the last four years. They've only played one member of the top five ever before this World Cup. That is India. That was India at the Asia Cup. And in 2019, they have not played any of these nations. None of them. They've not even played... They've only played Ireland and Scotland. That's it. So for them to come into this one, they've never played in England before having gone there and played this World Cup. So all these things make a difference. Just having a very low level of experience. A lot of their players, I think the total number of ODIs at Afghanistan have played in their cricketing history is 119, which I think Virat Kohli played in the first four years of his career. Also, I feel the majority of the make-up is T20 players. Absolutely. Yes, it is. And they do. I think Afghanistan has... Where do you get the chance to play longer formats? Exactly. When the nation started, T20 didn't exist. T20 crickets didn't exist. So actually, that also makes a huge difference because Bangladesh are concentrating on T20. Sorry, Bangladesh, I'm saying. Afghanistan... Because that's how the players can get out of Afghanistan, play cricket, make some cash money. There's the Afghan League also now. Yes, there's the Afghan League also. And I think Chris Gale played in it last time. I think he played in that. So I think again, the big difference between also Bangladesh and Afghanistan since we're drawing these parallels, they're both, I suppose, as from a cricket point of view, really it's a good thing for both countries that they're in South Asia. And so you will always have competitions like the Asian... Asia Cup. Asia Cup, whatever. So you'd get at least some of those big ticket games every once in a while just to say okay. But that's all you get. But no, but Bangladesh... Asia Cup is once in four years. I mean, I'm sure, I don't know. But Bangladesh also has a massive domestic market. Yeah, absolutely. That makes it, I think... I think for that massive domestic market, I know... But the current situation at home, that massive domestic market, whenever you see your team at home, you don't get that much of a chance. That's, I think, this parallel then again can be drawn with Pakistan now. Which is, when you're not able to play at home, when you can't see crowds at home, then it just becomes... Yeah, because if you get to watch your team back home and you watch them in flesh and blood, that in turn is preparing the new generation. Yes, it does. You know, they go to the field and see. We've seen so many people in stadiums match their players who impressed all of us. And because of that, we want to get onto the field the very next day and play. And you know, so the same thing should happen for Afghanistan, but what will happen in the future right now, at least? In the near future, you can't see that happening. So what I'm saying is that it's fine, like, Afghanistan can't play at home, but India has given them two stadiums here to call home. Yeah. Okay? The second point being, they can go and play outside. There is enough support outside for them. Their matches are being attended quite well. Well. There's a lot of Afghan support. Yes. There is a good Afghan population in all these countries. But the point about the point, like it's the same for the Afghan national football team, right? The majority of their players are based in Europe. Yes. Yeah. Or North America, perhaps. And they come together when they play for the national team. They rarely play at home when they play in competitions like everybody else does. So until, like, it's possible to encourage people to watch and make contact with these idols or whatever they are on the ground over there. The kids, man. Like, when we, I mean, for the first time, someone chucks a jersey at you across the fence, you know, that's what makes it happen. I mean, literally, we've never had a jersey chucked at me. Yeah. So, Matai Shahidzah. And let me tell you what's happening right now. What's happening right now in Afghanistan. They're gathering players. There's no domestic structure there. And we all know that domestic structure, in any team doing well in World Cricket, whether it is the big boys, the small boys, whoever, you need a sound and solid domestic structure. Yeah. And that domestic structure will take 10 years to come. Easy, man. Yeah. I mean, you shouldn't be hasty. I think it's fine. Like, it will take time. It will. So, if your domestic structure will take 10 years, after that, you will have players ready. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So, in a sense, it took Bangladesh and what they're doing right now in the 2019 World Cup. Yes. They beat England in 2015. But 1999 to 2019, 20 years, sir. And in that 20-year gap, there are at least 5-6 core players who have been playing together for 10 years. Yeah. Yes. And now, you know, they're getting the sweetness of Matai. That in 2011, when Bangladesh played South Africa and Dhaka, they were beaten really badly. I think they got out for under 100 runs. And then in the eight years since, they've played a lot more cricket. In the last four years, they've played about 120 ODIs. And they won almost half of them, more than half of them. And they beat South Africa in this World Cup. So, it makes a difference. Like, this is the legacy of that 1999 team. This is that legacy. Exactly. On your point about domestic club structure or domestic structure in general, yesterday Dalima Chabbar was in studio and we were talking to her about the situation with her. Indian national football team. Yeah, with the women's football in general. And the issues there are the same. That essentially, some nations or in some parts of the world, you get to play a lot. And in other parts, you don't get to play at all. So, if you're not playing, how are you going to play? It's exactly that. Like, it's absolutely like that. That's exactly the parallel to draw. Which is that if you don't play, how do you get better? Or how do you play? How do you grow? Yeah, how do you play? If you're not playing, then it's over. Absolutely. And that's... Yeah, and you look at Bangladesh players, right? Some players are really, really top-class players, honestly speaking. In addition to Rashid Khan, Mujibur Rahman, there's Nabi. For me, honestly, if I had to pick between Rashid, Mujibur and Nabi, I would pick Nabi. Nabi is the most solid player in terms of international cricket. He's solid with the bat and he's solid with the ball. You know? And he's a consistent performer. You know, it looks like whenever you see him on the field, when you see him playing on the field, it looks like he belongs there. And whoever you talk to him in his franchise, Sunrises, Hyderabad also, everyone, any former player also, everyone, the first thing they say about Nabi is, yaar kya player? This guy is a solid, solid player. The only thing I think they need to focus on their batting. Don't see any big batsmen coming through and have tear-away fast bowlers, you know? I think they had a tear-away fast bowler who is now a tear-away medium-paced bowler. That's what knee injury is due to you guys. I was talking to one of these former players and he was telling me about some of the politics that used to exist when he was playing and Harvard still exists. And I was like, I'm amazed, man. Even at the highest level of sport, where you have 15 people who have the highest level of dedication, the highest level of so on and so forth and, you know, quality, even there, they're back-biting, there is, you know, bitching going on, there is, usko pehle le liya, there is selection issues, even there. To fer Afghan cricket kya hai? Maha pe do 100% hoega, like you mentioned, abhi abhi paesa hai, neya-neya jya paesa aata hai, to suddenly harapne kri wo aadat hoti kyun ki wo paesa dekhah nahi hotina. Aur usse, of course, it branches out to all the other bad things that follow. So this Afghan cricket issue, I think will continue for a while, man. And let's see. Probably the next World Cup will give you a smaller indication, will give you a clear indication if they're playing the next World Cup, that if they've made progress or not, because if you look at Bangladesh, they took tiny steps. And it's because of those tiny steps, their foundation was solid. You know, they didn't take a massive leap, ki ikdem suddenly Bangladesh agai, because then you crumble also, suddenly, all of a sudden. And I think the best thing about cricket, the best thing about cricket is that the next World Cup format will be completely different because that's how cricket works. So I'm sure, they'll get a chance. I mean, if we have to say all this much, when we did the first show, we were saying the same thing that you have 5-6 more cricket playing countries in the world who are playing a little seriously. Why aren't you including them in this showpiece event? We still have to say the same thing. Even if you talk about this, close finishes are not happening. So... competitive, some teams are not being competitive enough. If you throw them in the mix, a couple of other countries, Zimbabwe, you'll get those closer finishes, you'll get those tightly contested games. They may not be of, perhaps, the quality that India is playing these days or Australia or Bangladesh. But it'll still be good competitive cricket and at the end of the day, it's a summertime sport. I don't agree. I don't think the World Cup is a place to breed new players. I think the 4 years between the World Cup is a place to breed new players. I'm saying my aim is that if you are in 4 years, and the ICC should take out a ruling and I don't know how much of their ruling really matters to all these nations, but the ICC should take out a ruling that once in a year or once in 2 years, you have to play a team that is ranked 9th and below. Once in 2 years, you have to play. Once in 2 years? That can be a solution. But once in 2 years, what? One ODI game, once in 2 years? No, no, no. You're right. This is not... You're thinking through one nation, but if you come across every nation, then suddenly you have, in that one year, a big team is playing a small team like Afghanistan on 2 or 3 times, 2 or 3 series. And that can go a long way so that they don't have showings like this then. Absolutely, what you're saying is that... The only point is that the only jurisdiction that the ICC has in this sort of a scenario is in ICC events. So the only place they can do it, essentially, is at the World Cup or at the Champions League. See, unfortunately, the ICCs, their control over the sport only is that they get the federations together, that's it. They cannot organize bilateral series between federations. India and Australia, when they play each other, there's nothing to do with the ICC. It's got to do with Cricket Australia and the BCCI. And what you're saying is absolutely right because I was speaking to the CEO of Scotland Cricket and he said that Scotland Cricket and the ECB had this... exactly what you're saying, this agreement that they would play each other 3 times every year. And they had this going on for a few years and this year, just before the World Cup... They used to. They used to also. No, the agreement is now going to come to an end in 2019 and the ECB does not want to renew it. And actually, the last time that England and Scotland played each other, Scotland beat England. Scotland, the highest ranked of the associate members, beat the top ranked full member. Some of this logic... I don't understand the logic. If you go to a Scotland-England game in the UK anywhere, I mean, in either England or Scotland... This is exactly what he said. I would not get a full... Absolutely. That's exactly what he said. What he said was, England versus Scotland at Lodz will be packed. It does not matter what format of the game you're playing or what sport you're playing. It's going to be packed. And yeah, so it's also... It comes down to the bigger nations being dildar enough to say... I mean, I guess the difference... That's an ideal scenario. Ideal scenario would be that. You forego a couple of your millions that you make every year and the problem is in cricket. None of the boards... Like, it's not spread out across all boards. There's not enough money for many boards. So, the Western D's are chasing me to play a series with India. The Western D's are chasing me to play a series with Australia. Because according to that series, we get our TV rights, we get some money, we get some money from our board. We can give that money to the players and so on and so forth. If you put a ruling on that, that if you play a series with a top-9 or below nation once a year, where is the money to hold the series? No, no, no. Wait a minute. So, the money will then be given to the ICC where the shortfall takes place. If you... If you're giving some kind of a dictate, then you have to facilitate it. Listen to the assumption. The assumption... That is your assumption. That is your assumption. I'm saying it's theoretically possible. I think also, we're assuming that if a big team plays a small team, money won't come. Which is wrong. Which is absolutely wrong. Less money will come? Yes, less money will come compared to... It won't be like the ashes. But... I'm saying take a hit. It's fine. I don't think you will incur a loss, by the way. I do not think you will incur a loss even in that situation. Like, I mean again I'm going... Again, I'm going back to the conversation I had with Malcolm, the CEO of Scotland and I'd asked him this. I said, what are the viewing figures like? What is the kind of attendance? Do you guys actually... Is it breaking even? He said, they're really well attended. Very well watched. And both teams end up with... No, but of course he would say that. But... No, it is... One second. Is that restricted to only some of these traditional cultural rivalries like England versus Scotland, for example? Or... I don't know. Perhaps even if it's England versus Scotland only, then let's just say England plays Scotland and Ireland. That could be like a thing you could do. South Africa can play Zimbabwe. They also... Apparently they support Cricket Namibia. Cricket South Africa put in a lot of money towards Cricket Namibia. So that could be another. Fair enough. I've understood this now. So guys, so that was a decent discussion. In between, I think we went a little tough. But then the end of the discussion was really nice. It makes sense. I don't know if ICC will really implement these things. I think we're living in a distorted reality if you're thinking all these things are going to be happening. But it's a situation, nonetheless, that can be implemented. I mean, there's no reason why. And now that you see guys like Canada and all coming in, America wants to sort of make a foothold. And the big China. China is trying to come into cricket. Then, you know, it's only good for the game. China actually have a very good cricket team that they're not showing us, by the way. They have a great cricket team who are world beaters. First Chinese player, there was one Chinese player who played the big bash also. I'm just putting it out there. Do you see Afghanistan winning a single game in this world cup? I think their best chance was again, Sri Lanka and they really blew it. So it's not going to happen. Yeah, I don't think they're going to. Because now also all the teams that are going to be playing them, it's that latter half of the league, they'll say, yeah, this is two points. So with that, we've come to an end of another episode of 575 Ounces as we were talking about Afghanistan and how it's not really working for them in this world cup. But if they do draw parallels from a certain Bangladesh, then the road is long, but the road is definitely not an impossible one. There's light at the end of the tunnel. The climb is definitely not impossible. The climb is definitely not impossible. Siddharth Ani, Vahav Raghunandan, guys. Thanks so much. Goodbye.