 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. In this episode of Mind Pump, Amelia Boone, the Queen of Pain, she's got to be one of the most decorated obstacle course racers in the world, right? She's amassed more than 50 podiums and 30 victories. That's so crazy. But a lot of people don't know, she went through some crazy struggles. I think in 2016, stress fractured to her femur and to her sacrum. Those are two areas that are very, very difficult to break. Yeah. And so it kind of pointed to maybe overtraining, you know, maybe just pushing too hard. Like, we talked a lot about this with her in the episode. Rumor has it this was her favorite podcast she's ever done. And I heard she's been on some pretty damn good fucking podcasts. That's what she said, I think. I mean, not only that, this girl has, she is not only kicking ass and doing all this with Spartan race all over the world nonstop. Okay. So the amount of discipline and running takes one year. She talks about this in the episode. She did a race every other weekend for an entire year. Imagine the work ethic it has put in, it has to go to do that. In addition to that, this woman runs a full-time job as a lawyer for Apple. She's kind of like the Terminator. How fucking crazy is that? Yeah. Well, and that's the thing, like, is she the Terminator? Is she, you know, and we talk about that in this episode. We get really deep with her. It's a great conversation. You're not going to want to miss it. Now, if you are listening, you are interested in obstacle course racing or you want to be able to move like some of their top athletes, we have a program that we designed for you. It's called Maps Performance. It is our answer to, you know, functional training, crossfit training, obstacle course type training. It is a program designed to get you to move better, period, bar none, mobility, strength, agility, power, you know, having a big endurance, all of that. It's in the program. There's four phases. It's the longest program that we offer. I think it's like 16 weeks long. If I'm not mistaken or something like that, 14 to 16 weeks long, four different phases all broken down, video demos of the exercises. This program probably contains more movements that you've never seen or know of in comparison to our other programs. If you're always into hypertrophy training, give this one a try. I promise you're going to see some huge benefit, especially to your prime exercises like squats, deadlifts and hand cleans. It's a great program. You can get more information on it at mindpumpmedia.com. Don't forget to, if you want to find Amelia Boone, you can find her at AmeliaBooneRacing.com. It's Amelia's A-M-E-L-I-A. And then Boone is B-O-O-N-E-Racing.com. And her Instagram is at Arboone11. That's A-R-B-O-O-N-E-1-1. And that's for Instagram. My girlfriend works for JJ Albany's, which is a, the largest concrete company in the area. So they do a lot of stuff for Apple and Google. And so they're so undercover about stuff. Like if they're laying, they'll be laying like concrete for like a new building. And they have to, they're the only, these are the only companies they have to do this with. Everybody else, they pour concrete for it. No one has to do, it's not a big deal. But with Apple, it can't even be titled Apple. It's gonna have like a code name. People, if you have, you pull your phone out. Guys have been- No, she'll tell me, she'll tell me that people are getting launched off a job and actually fired if they pull their phone out on the job site. They can't even pull their phone out on the job site. It's so strict. I mean, it's like, how do you think all of our phone stuff leaks? It's because our suppliers. So if we say we need glass, you know, we need glass screens for, and so everyone's like, oh, new iPhone has glass. It's just gonna be a lot. So that's how it leaks out. It's not with an Apple. It's who we're getting our parts from. Ah, see. That's crazy. She told me it's like, and do you, do you feel this at all working there with like, with the, you know, all the other, the big four, right? Sure, Amazon and is it like, you know, everyone's building their, their own little campuses and it's almost like a race back and forth. It feels like as an outsider looking in, it feels like you guys- It's like one-upping each other. Yeah, that's what it seems like. It's like, oh, Google just got this. Oh, here comes Apple. And it's like, you guys keep- Future countries. Right. I know. I feel like- I live in Appoland. Exactly. Now with Amazon and their like second campus, wherever that's going to be, and everyone's like, oh, what city? And I'm like, please God, don't bring it down to the Bay area. Oh, it's crazy around here. We don't need anymore. Oh, we don't need anymore. How long have you been there for now? I've been at Apple for two years. Oh, just two years? Yeah, just two years. What did you do before that? I was at a law firm in Chicago. So I was there for six years at like one of the largest law firms in the world. I wanted to be a lawyer when I was a kid. And what- Did you like to argue? No, it was true. That's true. Like my mom always told me I was a kid. She's like, you're going to be a good lawyer one day. She's scolding me. But what turned me off, I'll never forget, I was 16 years old and I was dating this girl and her father was a lawyer. Yeah. And I went to his work and I'm standing in his office and his whole office is from floor to ceiling just all these books all the way around him. And I was like, whoa, I was like, do you have to read all these? And he's like, oh, I've read all of those. And I'm like, he's like, you have to read at least that just to become a lawyer. And at that moment I was turned off. Because it wasn't like a few books. It was like silver. I looked around and thought this would take me a lifetime to read all of them. And they're not like fun books. No. Yeah, they're like this of law. It's another language really. And the funny thing is I still kept some of my textbooks from law school and they're all highlighted and color coded. And I go, what am I going to do? Why do I keep these? And people are like, oh, you keep them like put in your big corner office. And I'm like, no, you don't. I don't know. Maybe it's just like this. Like I spent so much money on law school. I'm going to take this textbook. You have to know this. You'll have to see it. Like look what I did. I read all this. Well, being a kid who wanted to do that and then absolutely changed my mind, I would love to ask you what that process was like. Was it some of the hardest times? Studying, going through the school. What was it like for you? Yeah, I was one of those kids that I love school. If I could be a lifelong student, I would be a lifelong student. I'd be like, what can I go back and get my degree? And I almost, I thought about, I want to get a medical degree. I was like, can I be like a doctor of physical therapy and a lawyer or something like that? Damn, that's a great combo. So I love school. And that's why to me at this point. Why do you think that is? Is it the structure of school or is it learning or both? Something early on maybe happened to you? What was so wrong in your life that you liked it? No, for me, I just, I love to learn. And so when I don't know something and then I'll delve into that area and too and things like that. And I think it started when I started getting involved in athletics, which wasn't until I was out of law school. I mean, it was really when I was like 27 years old when I started racing. And so I wanted to learn everything about the body and everything about, you know, training methods and things like that. I just, I don't know, I just love to learn. Have you always been an overachiever? Always, always, unfortunately. I remember when it was like the summer reading program, you know, did you ever do that as your parents put there in like the summer reading program and you like had to read a number of books when you were a little? So I was seven years old and, you know, you're supposed to read 20 books a summer and you would get a certain sticker. I think I read 112 that summer because I just, yes. Wow. I just had to win. I just had to win. I had to beat all the other kids in the town. You just win, crush everybody. Crush everyone else. You want to be first, second and third. So unpacking that, where does that stem from? Did you get it from your parents? I mean, were you pushed at an early age? What excited you about learning like that? No, the funny thing is, is my parents, and you talk to them, are very kind of like average students. Like they were B and C students. Like they were smart, but they always told me they saw from very early age that I was just like kind of innately driven. And so they acted as a balance to that and to be like, it's okay, Amelia, to get a B. Like it's okay. It's okay. Like you don't always have to be, very good parenting. And I owe a lot to them is that had I had parents that were like, if you don't get an A, if you don't get in the top school in the country, if you don't do this, I mean, I think I would have combusted at an early age. So I think there is definitely something that is innate there. And it's hard to really pinpoint where it comes from because my sister is very smart, but it's the complete opposite. She's very laid back. She's very, I mean, we're like, pretty much you would never guess we were really. Who's older? Yeah. She's older. And how many siblings? Just the two of us. Okay. Do you find it tough to be still? Yes. Absolutely. Which being a lawyer then is very tough sometimes because you're at a desk for so long. And so that's why I think it's one of those things where if you're at a desk for 10 hours a day, then I'm like, I want to go out and run for 40 miles a day to get rid of all that energy and things like that. And you said that started after law school? Yeah. I mean, I was an athlete growing up. I played soccer. I played softball. Team sports, just kind of a jack of all trades kid. I was pretty good at everything I picked up. I was actually an excellent golfer. It was just way too slow for me. I couldn't deal with it. But I never really thought about playing beyond high school and I was never really good enough to play beyond high school. I always just was going to focus on academics. And so I didn't really do anything during college, during law school. I think I was one of those people. I went to the gym and did the elliptical for 30 minutes because that's what you did to stay in shape, right? But it wasn't until I was a first year associate at a law firm in Chicago. And I saw a lot of my friends around me to deal with the stress. It's a very high stressful environment. There was a lot of happy hours and a lot of boozing. And don't get me wrong, like I'm all for that. But that's how they decompress. And I kind of found racing and athletics as like my stress release. And that's kind of where it started. What was the first thing that you did that really kicked that off? Was it a race or was it? Yeah, I signed up with through friends of four co-workers at work, showed me this thing. They're like, look at this. It's called the Tough Mudder. And they showed me these people crawling through electrical wires and jumping over fire. And I was like, sign me up. Yeah, you're like, that's me. Sign me up. Let's do this. So it was up in Wisconsin at the ski hill in Wisconsin. And we ran it and we finished. And everyone was like, that's cool. Check that off the list. Like go back to our lives. And I was like, when was the next one? And I got an email a week after that said, congratulations, you're invited to sign up for the first World's Toughest Mudder. Which so the World's Toughest Mudder was a Tough Mudder course where you did it as many laps as possible in 24 hours. I'd only run one race in my life at this point, the Tough Mudder. And for some unknown reason, I decided I wanted to do that. It was in December in New Jersey. And no experience. The first time I'd ever run was 13 miles. And for some unknown reason, I decided to pull the trigger and do that. What year was this? 2011. Okay. Yeah. And it was probably the most miserable that I've ever been in my entire life. But I think it was the most alive that I ever felt too. And that's just kind of what kept me coming back. Now, do you have this personality and everything that you do with work and everything else? Do you feel like that? Anything is how you do everything? Yeah, I think that it's funny. I actually think that people are very, like I actually think I'm pretty risk adverse and pretty, you know, like the lawyer part of me is very logical and very driven by, you know, thought and the head and things like that. And then I feel like it's almost that the racing is kind of the outlet, the primal outlet to be driven by, you know, things like by the heart. And just by pure physical drive. And so I almost feel like it's kind of that outlet that the rest of me doesn't really get. Because if you ask my parents, when I signed up for that first race and they're like, what? I mean, that's just not, you know, I was the kid that was like afraid to, I was the kid that like didn't want to sleep over at a friend's house because she, because I was afraid I wouldn't get enough sleep at night, you know, like I just, I was always very by the book would not take any risks. And so then it's like, oh yeah, sure I'm going to go run around in the freezing cold for 24 hours in December. It seemed completely out of personality for me. So it feels like breaking free. Yeah, completely. And I think that I think, and I think that the more I've seen kind of the sport of obstacle racing evolve and you see more and more people drawn to it. And I think it's because so many people are trying to search for something there is that, like we have set up our lives in such a way that like everything can be easy, like everything can be automated, everything can be given to you. And it's almost like people are searching out for suffering because we don't have, we live in a world. And I'll say this like in our, obviously in America and this is a gross generalization because there are, there is still a lot of unnecessary suffering in America. But we have set ourselves up to where, you know, everything can be so easy. And I don't, I think that human nature is to at some point want to struggle and people have found these races as kind of that outlet. 100%. So we talked to Joe Decina about was exactly that. Yeah. Oh yeah. I'm sure. Cause we've, we talked about the, the rise of just OCR in general. Like in a lot, 15 years ago, no one was really doing anything like that. All of a sudden you see this and we are becoming so plugged in that it gives you that sense of feeling that pain, that struggle, like you just don't get that. Like we used to get that 20, 30 years ago or even further back. Well, I think growth, growth happens from challenge. And when you're not being challenged regularly, like we evolved to be, and the thing is a lot of people don't realize why they feel terrible. You know, why do I feel terrible? I have everything. I've got a house. I've got, you know, my family. I've got a job. Like why am I anxious? Why am I depressed? Like even people who eat healthy and who exercise, like why do I still feel this way? And it's, we evolved growing and learning through challenge. And when you take all that away, it can feel, for many people can feel empty. Yeah. And it's never enough. That's the thing. So you get the nice house, you get the corner office, you get, you know, your two and a half kids and the white picket fence. And then you sit there and you go, what else, you know, and it's never, people are never going to be satisfied. So it's one of those things that's finding different means, I think. Now as you continue to do this, because you've been racing now for, since 2011 you said? Yeah. Okay. And obviously highly decorated, very successful in racing. Where do you find that challenge now? It's tough. I mean, I think for, for a while, I kind of went through this a little bit disillusionment that I was like, okay, I've done everything. I've won a bunch of races. I've won world championships. And so for me, it's always seeking out that next challenge. And there, I have a lot of races on my bucket list that they're not necessarily, the great thing about obstacle racing is it's evolving. There are more and more races coming out and more different challenges. Like I'm going to Iceland in December to run a 24-hour obstacle race in Iceland in December, which should be fun. It's 23 hours of darkness. Nice and warm. Yeah, yeah. Nice and warm. And a great way to see the country in the dead of winter. But I think for me too, it's also, I've started a branch often to just pure ultra running as well. And there's a lot of really, I just kind of find the gnarliest thing out there. And I say, I want to do that. How's your body holding up to this constant challenge because it is extreme in the sense that you're pushing your body on a consistent level or constant, always finding those new challenges. Have you noticed any detriments to whether it be your physical body or hormones or anything like that or the things that people expect to be challenged in that case? Yeah, I flew very high for about my first five years is that I was just, we raced year round and I raced probably every other week year round for five years. Wow. And a lot of these, I mean, there's some are shorter but a lot of them are, and there was no concept of off season and because I didn't come from a very structured, I didn't run in college, I didn't play in college, I didn't have a concept of cycling your training or even taking an off season. And it caught up to me. I mean, to spring of 2016, I got a stress fracture in my femur that ended up spiraling into a full fracture and then I was out for six months with that and I tried to come back. Okay, I tried to come back too quickly because I had no idea what I was doing and ended up with a stress fracture in my sacrum. I was out for 18 months and that's actually forced me to completely kind of readjust my thinking and my process with this because I trusted my body for so long to just do what it needed to do and that I put it through a lot of abuse. I spent three or four days out in the woods with Joda Sena during his death races, carrying things up a mountain and just going on no sleep and my body was great and it did what I asked it to do and then all of a sudden everything just broke and I think that it was fine. Like, okay, take a step back and realize like you've had no strategy to your training at all and like maybe you actually like you're an athlete, Amelia, and now you need to train like an athlete. Yeah, that said, like going back and having the academic mind that you have, did you really go back and kind of dive into how can I, you know, make this more effective? How can I train to kind of promote more strength? Yeah, because when you talk about stress fractures of those such strong bones, you're talking about the femur, the sacrum, those are two areas are pretty rarely broken in that particular way. Did you have to go through testing to see what's going on? Are my mineral levels off? Hormones? Like, what's happening? Yeah, so I went through, you know, I had a DEXA scan for bone density and, you know, luckily bone density was normal. Vitamin D was normal, you know, I'm a sun worshiper, so everything was normal in that regard, but to be completely honest, like I, you know, I hadn't had periods for a really long time either is just with the level of training. And so my estrogen levels were non-existent. And I also realized I was, with the femur, I was starting to, I'm pretty lean as it is, but I was starting to lean out more and I never get on scales. And so I think I was starting to drop a lot of weight with how much that I was running. And I didn't really realize it and just the body can't take that. And then it was interesting after the femur I ended up, I was no impact and carry a lot of muscle and I ended up losing 20 pounds when I was no impact, like after the femur stress fracture. At this point, are you questioning your own drive in the sport at all? I'm questioning, I'm questioning like my body. I'm like, what did I do, you know? Like, if anything, it lit the fire to, like when you're involuntarily sidelined, all of a sudden something, you are like, wait, no, no, no, no, that's my identity, that's my life, like I want to come back to that. So a part of me that was getting burnt out on all of it, I suddenly rekindled that drive. But I was also just sitting there and being like, what is going on, you know? And trying to figure out, and through this entire process, through the year plus on the sidelines, I really realized the things that I did wrong. And so, like with the femur, and this is what I tell everybody now, and this is exactly what happened, and what I did wrong is like, when people get injured, you think you're like, shit, the first thing is like, I'm going to gain weight, you know? I'm going to get out of shape, I'm going to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You should actually probably gain weight while you're injured because like your body needs that, and I'm not talking like 30, 40 pounds, but like, you know, your body needs those extra nutrients to help heal. And I didn't do that. And so, and then that actually like prolonged everything. And so, like now it's like, I regained all that weight, but I just like, it took so much longer because I just, you know, like I didn't do all the things that I was supposed to do while I was injured. Yeah, it's, in my experience, when you ignore signals of the body long enough, they get louder and louder until you tend to get forced like, okay, now you can't do anything because you have this, whether it be autoimmune issue or injury or whatever, looking back, and the good thing about hindsight is it tends to be 2020, looking back where there's signals leading up to those two things that you can look back and say, okay, those might have been some signals telling me that I needed to change things or adjust my nutrition or whatever. Yeah, with, honestly, with the femur was really tough because I have a fully torn labrum in that hip, which refers a lot of pain down through the, down through kind of the area where the stress fracture happened. So I just thought I was running through with a torn labrum. I was running through it thinking like, this is pain that I'm familiar with because it's a torn labrum. It's gonna like ache until I get it fixed. So that one, I mean, my big issue there is I was ramping up to run Western states, which is like, you know, the super bowl of ultramarathons. And I ramped up my mileage too quickly. I absolutely did. I went from running like 50 miles a week to over a span of two months, I bumped from 50 miles a week to 100 miles a week. I mean, it's just, it's, it's stupid. It's absolutely stupid because I didn't know what I was doing. And so, but I mean, I definitely with trying to come back after the femur and then trying to come back with the sacrum, like I tried to start running when I was severely underweight and like I had no muscle mass and within three weeks when I started running again, like I ended up with a stress fracture in the sacrum. So had I had to do it over again, which I hope I never have to do over again. My biggest thing is like, once, you know, for anyone who's gone through a stress fracture or major injury or something like that, like rebuild your strength first and then introduce impact again. I wish I'd started off with like, you know, just pure strength or gotten back to squats, deadlifts, everything that I used to do. I used to do a lot of CrossFit, which I got away from. And, you know, CrossFit, we can talk about positive and negative as well, but I was a much stronger athlete, I think, when I was actually moving heavier weights. And so for me, it was like, okay, like work on plyometrics, work on balance, work on, you know, just those strength aspects, build up that muscle first and then go back to trying to run and trying to do and reintroduce the pounding and the impact. Did it ever cross your mind and maybe stop all together? I did. It did. And it wasn't, it was after, it was after the sacrum. I just, I threw my hands up in the air and I was like, I can't, I tried to cross train my way throughout the stress fracture and the femur and what I ended up doing was just making things worse because I was creating more imbalances. I was riding an air, like a salt bike with one leg. I mean, so you think about it, I was just pedaling with my left leg thinking that I was like getting in a workout where my right leg was atrophy because it was broken. I mean, and so yeah, with, I actually, with the sacrum, I just, for four weeks I did nothing and it was the worst. It was so bad, but it was necessary. Well, knowing your analytical and logical side during this time when your sideline forced to not move, are you reading and learning a lot about how to progress afterwards? So you're doing lots of study at this point? Lots of study, yeah. Now what about rest and meditation and these types of things? Have you, were you visiting any of this at this, at this moment or was this always part of your training? Yeah, no, I famously said like, I don't meditate running as my meditation and that was about three months before the stress fracture happened or as I call it, I came down with a case of the femurs. But, so I was kind of forced at that point and I, I downloaded all, you know, I did headspace and calm and played around with those apps and I got into a daily meditation practice and it was really hard and I do it every day still and I'm really bad at it. Like I'd like to say like I'm really good but most of the time I'm sitting there thinking about my to-dos the next day and like I'm still really bad at it but I do it every day and at some point I feel like it will magically become easier. It's a practice but for overachievers that's the hardest part. Yeah, it's for someone and we can all relate, right? We've talked about this on the show before when you're a very type A type of personality to settle us down but like I always talk about on the show too it's those, those are the people that need it the most. Yeah. Like if there's anybody that needs meditation in their life it's like us and you like because we are so go, go, go driven run these crazy races train all day long like we are so competitive with ourselves I feel like that it's, we will benefit from that more than anybody else. Yeah. So it's, you know did you get scared when you lost your period I would think that would freak you out going through that. Yeah, so one of the tough things about for female athletes and I can say this for and you know anyone out there is that so for instance if you are on some type of birth control like so I've been on IUD had an IUD for 10 years so you don't get periods with that so you don't actually know if you are getting periods and so the key is then I had to go and I did tests and saw an endocrinologist and they do your estrogen levels and you're you know your luteinizing hormones and everything like that and tell you like whether or not you would get in it because estrogen is so key for bone health and so I think that that was one of those things that you know they talk about the female athlete triad and blah blah blah blah but it's it was bringing back up those estrogen levels so I highly recommend for any female out there who's struggling with injury and if you aren't getting you know periods for you know because you have are on some type of birth control like get tested and check it out. Yeah well if you would have been tested you could have gone I would have no I like I you could have taken preventative measures and things like that and so these are all things that now in hindsight that I wish I had done I thought I was like things are going fine and blah blah blah and so it's knowing that that was you know really important for me. How has your training changed since then? Yeah. Because that's a bit it's been a year over a year ago. Yeah. That'll happen. I mean coming so basically when you start I had been off running for pretty much a year and so you it's frustrating because you're pretty much starting over from ground zero at that point and one of the big things that I need to learn how to move again so when you've been especially when you have anything with a back if you've ever thrown on your back if you've ever done anything you know how everything is connected to you know all your vertebrae and your sacrum and everything locks down so I worked a lot initially when I worked with Dr. Brink you guys know very well on a lot of just movement patterns like animal movement patterns a lot of crawling a lot of things to like be like okay your body can move again because for so long I had just locked everything down so I you know I started off very very slowly with running again it was like a mile at a time at a ten minute pace and having to build back up and then also incorporating a lot more single leg balance and figuring out what's fascinating for me is that pretty much all of my injuries have been on my right side like all of the nagging things that I've had have always been on my right side and so for so long we've chased up and down my right chain being like what is wrong what is wrong what we figured out is actually it's my left side that's all messed up it's compensatory yeah so my left side I have these like windswept mechanics where when I run my left leg crosses over shifts all my weight over on my right leg my right leg is taking the brunt of the impact and was that you and Brink that put that together and working I don't know if you know her with Dr. Courtney Conley who also works with rock tape and she's a podiatrist and she took a video of me and was like look at your legs and you know figuring that out and just my left chain is so tight my right chain is super loose and we've just so working now on evening those out I think is really key and it's been really enlightening for me is that the place I've been most of the time that's very very true usually it's because it's doing something for another part of your body that's not working properly right now during this period of relearning patterns and moving differently you can't train super hard right otherwise you're going to you know reinforce some of those old patterns so that must have sucked you know being on the sidelines and doing nothing sucks don't get me wrong but what's even nine months and I'm just like why am I still not back to like why do I still feel so out of shape and I think it's because you have to go so slow to start out with is that your body you're ready I'm mentally ready to go out there and run 20 miles but it's like nope you can't do that right away you know like you're going to start off very very slowly there's two parts there's well there's more than two but the two main issues that happen are your injury especially if that injury challenges a psychological identity that you will create new patterning because of the physical injury but then there's a psychological component where it's protective it's very very protective of the body what's going on we tend to hold on to pain as a result of it I worked with an athlete who had a shoulder injury that ended her you know competitive career through working with her shoulder looked fine after you know a lengthy period of time of training you know biomechanics were fine there was no more dysfunction MRIs looked good still felt that shoulder pain still was moving in a way that was almost trying to protect it which then reinforces more bad patterning and it was really through identifying that psychological component to where she was able to and really it literally happened one day like literally one day it was a light bulb that went off for her and she was like well my shoulder doesn't hurt anymore and over the course of weeks it was started moving the way it should so that's the tough part when you're you're such a decorated you know athlete in a particular sport or event and you have an injury that literally challenges that like well the mental discipline of it's been able to get you through all these things right so now how do you sort of like reframe that thought process like going into training and going into competing now and you know this has been something that's been running through my mind for this past entire year is that the biggest issue for me is that I have now be from a year on the sidelines gotten mentally into a space where I'm like I am broken like I am broken and getting out of that is really hard and it's almost like I made my career my athletic career known people knew me as the queen and like being able to fight through anything and being able to ignore that pain and keep going and do these incredible things and now all of a sudden I would get after you know rebuilding and coming back any any ounce of pain and I would suddenly go in this like flight response of I am broken again I am broken again I have another stress fracture I have blah blah blah blah and thinking that I'm weak and getting through that I mean this is embarrassing to admit but so I've been back running for nine months I've probably had eight MRIs and that span of time for fear of additional stress fractures just because of getting to in a row and they've all come back clean and it's funny because it was just actually a few weeks ago where I finally like sat down and like was talking to my coach and I have a coach that helps me does my running programming and he's like you are not broken anymore like you have had eight MRIs that you have feared have been bad like you're strong you're back like you know like we had to you know you've gained the weight back you're still gaining all the muscle back and like like you are a strong person and I literally sat down in my journal I journal almost every day and I just wrote I am not broken over and over and over again and for some reason that light bulb just went off my head I'm like I can do this you know I can do this and I think for me I feel of that of that fear and realizing like that I don't have to be afraid anymore and but that having that relationship with pain is so difficult because you for so long I was so easy it was so easy for me to ignore it and then all of a sudden I was super hyper aware and so it's finding that good place in the middle it's you know I found success with so what you're talking about is actually extremely common with people who are also deconditioned believe it or not where I'll have someone who's been overweight their whole life and they'll say I am fat and like you said I am broken and really if we break down what you're saying whether you say I am fat I am broken I am tall I am short you are none of those things you're identifying with a state or with a body that is constantly changing and realizing that helps a lot of people realizing that they're not fat their body has body fat or I am not broken I've had broken parts it is not who you are because once we start to identify with those things in our bodies if we are encountered if we encounter a challenge it challenges our very core of who we are and that's a very difficult thing to deal with much more difficult than a broken femur or bad recruitment patterns it's that mental side that becomes so difficult are you because you're working with Dr. Brink on patterning you're working with some other are you working with anybody on that part of it that sports psychology part or the you know that side of you that fears that yeah unfortunately that's the one piece that I never I did not you know reach out to sports psychology I thought about it and hindsight probably should have probably would have made the process a bit easier I luckily have you know some great friends that we you know sounding boards for each other that have been through similar processes so no though I can't tell you know I'm still not opposed to it now that I think about I'm like probably a good thing well you know something that I've probably somewhere between I'd say 50 and 100 OCR marathon runners people that do endurance sports I've trained in my career and they all have some things in common and when we first started talking today we were talking about happening with tech and how we're becoming so plugged in and people are searching for these this physical demand to be challenged or whatever but what I ran across with all these these athletes that I was training was they had they had a lot of stress at work and they were attracted to this other physical stress and it was and that physical stress was the outlet from the mental stress but the same the same stress they were getting at this high and I think of someone like you I can't help but think that with the job you have I mean you're an attorney for one of the largest companies in the world I know you can't have like a low stress job you ain't going to tell me we don't have to talk about your job and I would I already know you know just with my experience and so you know someone like you I and it would take a long time for me to get this message across to the people I was coaching that we're getting this is your body telling you that you already got plenty of stress in your life you already got a lot of challenge you've already got a lot of drive and I was going to ask you because you seem very self aware that you know you're I always say on the show your greatest strength is your greatest weakness and for sure your drive has made you very successful in many avenues you know where do you see that hindering you or holding you back whole stress is stress concept that physical physical stress mental stress emotional stress like they all break your body down and I had in my mind that look I can run really hard in the mornings but it's okay because like I'm sitting on my butt for 10 hours a day so I've got all the time in the world to recover what I didn't realize is that you know most professional athletes who are training at the type of level that like I train on they train in the way that you should be doing and sleeping I mean my biggest thing is like for years I got probably five to six hours of sleep and I like consistently and trying to compete at the level that I was competing against a lot and I mean you see a lot of people doing obstacle racing as full time professional career and I'm sitting here juggling both and I'm not saying like whoa is me but I'm just saying that I did not realize and appreciate how the going 100 miles an hour in the morning physically and then 100 miles an hour during the day mentally and emotionally like would then end up compounding everything and so it's that has been a very hard learning process for me I can only imagine we actually posted on our Instagram page that we would be interviewing you and people were asking us questions to ask you questions was how does she do it all how does she do you know the attorney how does she do the training and so hearing that also being somewhat of a role model especially for women and girls who want to do these types of things and it is I'm going to be honest with you very empowering it's I have a daughter and if you were her hero I would not be upset about that because it's a very empowering you're a very empowering figure but at the same time knowing that hearing that it's like I can keep going in my mind you mean in terms of like I got to keep racing or I got to keep like like doing it all I mean keep doing it all no I mean what I've always what I have come to realize is that you can't have it all no one has it all what you have to do is define what your all is and then be like happy with that and for me I enjoy both I enjoy the juggling of the two I have to realize that I have to make sacrifices in other areas and then I also have to probably make sacrifices sometimes in performance and in terms of athletics or performance in terms of work and it's not always going to be a perfect fit and I think that you know it more and more I realize that if you really do want to compete at the highest echelons of a sport you're probably going to have to be a professional athlete like the whole weekend warrior stick doesn't you know you might it's pretty tough it's tough but I enjoy it that way and so I think that it's really important just to keep I mean my training volume is a lot lower now than it used to be and maybe that's why I still feel really out of shape but I also realize that I feel much healthier because of it and so Has nutrition changed throughout this process? Yeah I mean I think the biggest thing for me was putting back on the weight and to look I've never been dogmatic and nutrition I've experimented with a lot of things but it has been focused more on getting more fats in my diet Did you start did you start the Pop-Tart thing? I started the Pop-Tart thing You gotta tell the story because somebody inboxed me like two weeks ago finally we're getting to it because we talked about I talked about how it made its way into bodybuilding so I did it so I was in men's physique the last four years so here I'm in my 30s competing and you know Pop-Tarts have been around forever all of a sudden everybody's using them in the gym before they go go work out and it's like everyone's using it and I'm going what the fuck I don't get it I never liked Pop-Tarts as a kid whatever right but I even found myself trying them It was like a popular 80s food and then all of a sudden This is my people are like how are you not sponsored by Kellogg's because I'm not I'm not a four-year-old and I'm not a mother of a four-year-old but yeah so in 2013 I was running the Spartan Race World Championship and I was destroying the field I think was winning about like 45 minutes and the race director at one point yells out to me as I'm going over this obstacle he's like damn Amelia what you have for breakfast this morning I was a Pop-Tarts which is actually true I did and and then ever since then it is a pre-race ritual for me I have Pop-Tart every time before every race I'm not eating Pop-Tarts on a daily basis I will I will like you know get rid of that myth out there I don't some people get angry at me because I'm you know they feel like I'm promoting junk food I'm like it's a thing it's more ritualistic of anything but I do actually believe that you know everyone has their you need to have every workout or you know type of food that you know is going to sit well on your stomach and Pop-Tarts are very easily digestible source of carbs and they've always sat well on my stomach and so I've rolled with that but it's it's made its way to the body building I know and it's oh cinnamon roll cinnamon roll is hands down the best if I recommend people to try I have not tried I have a box of like the Jolly Rancher that one was on let's see the issue with toast with strudels is that when you're traveling and I race in the middle of nowhere like I mean our races are in the middle of no squaw I was a you know an outlier but they're generally like there's nothing around so you're not going to have a microwave or a toaster for a toaster strudel unfortunately how do you deal with you just you touched on something I saw you kind of roll your eyes a little bit with the people that give you a hard time and I'm sure this I'm sure in the last five years this is probably an experience for you I know it's been for even for us and we talk about on the show of you know once you gain this traction of people following you how do you deal with that stress do you get probably a lot of people that are always trying to tell you what to do and what to say and how do you handle that yeah it's it's hard I'm not going to lie I wish I could be one of those people that's like I can tune out the people on the internet and blah blah blah and I don't know what it is but I think it's like the more you the more it happens the more people that say mean things the easier it becomes almost because you start to realize you just start to learn how to deal with it I totally and I still remember the first one that really see all the rest after that no big deal but the first one Do you remember the first one that really bothered you It was a weird angle, it was like shot up from the ground. It was just, it was an attractive picture, but like a bunch of people on the Facebook page, all these dudes were like, weird body, like weird. And I just, I was sitting there like, what? Like, what do you, what right do you have to comment? And all I want to do is respond. But what I've always been told is like, don't feed the trolls. Don't pick up the break. Like it was, it's going to make it worse. It's going to make it worse. But I'm just sitting there and I'm like, and it's also the lawyer on me that I also just want to argue about everything too. So I tried not, you know, I try to just kind of like, you know, don't fan the flames. But I think it's also hard for me because people have told me like, just don't read your Instagram comments or don't blah, blah, blah. But I like to engage with people. And so if somebody's taking time to like comment on my Instagram, like I'm going to respond to them. So I do read the comments. And to be fair, 99% of what I get from people, like people are fantastic, but it's just always that one asshole that can ruin everything seriously. Yeah, we experienced that. Yeah, I was like, I'm sure that you guys get it all the time too. You know, not in- Adam gets it all the time. What the heck, what the heck? It's wrong with him. But you're right though, after you get the reps, it's not so bad, but it was the very first one. Because for quite some time, we actually got a lot of love. In fact, we kept saying it to each other. We kept waiting for it. And we're like, any day now, I'm gonna have it. Any day now, we should be getting a sock. Like what a few people paying attention, right? And then finally, it happened for me. And when it happened, I was just like, and I think, if I look back, I think that, you know, it's definitely my insecurities that make me feel so butt hurt over that. Like why would I let some person, I've never met in my life, make a statement about me, and then I get bothered by it. I'm like, that's me, you know, shame on me for even allowing that to happen. That obviously struck a chord with me. And so it's what I've actually now flipped it on its head. It's been huge growth for me that every time I get attacked or that actually gets me in that feeling where I wanna respond, now I've trained myself one, not to respond. And then two, I kind of reflect on that go like, okay, what does that say about myself? Why do I let some strain? Cause who's this person to me? I don't know who the final person is. Finally giving them control. Yeah. Why would I even get my power away like that and allow that to even bother me? And so it's allowed me, it's been huge. I mean, we talk about all the time the show so much like therapy, like, cause you do, we get so many people commenting on every, hanging on every word that you say and that you do. And the ones that actually get me fired up are the ones that make me kind of dive back in and go like, hmm, why do I actually... And actually to be honest, some of them have actually given me things to work on. So I'll never forget when I was on Tim Ferriss's podcast and somebody commented, I can't listen to this girl, her vocal fry is awful. I had no idea what vocal fry was. Yeah, neither do I. What is that? And I was like, it's, you know how it tends to be, men do it too, but women get crucified for it. So it's kind of trailing off and it's like that kind of thing. And apparently I've read studies that it just, it doesn't mean, it's correlated, people seem, it seems Valley Girl, I guess. But I was doing it unconsciously. And so it was one of those things when I saw that comment, what is this? And now I need to work on this. And I feel I'm not a Valley Girl, I swear to God. And so some of them, you know... I say like all the time. There we go. And everybody gives me shit for that. And I get it. Like I'm always, see, I just did it right there. But yeah, I'm always checking myself. But yeah, like you, sometimes it's constructive. Right. So sometimes thank you constructive trolls. I will take it. I've developed this defense mechanism where I make fun of myself before they can. Yes. Well, let's keep it in here. Yeah, right. Now you can't do it. Take a bad picture, I'll just like highlight how bad it is. Yeah, now you can't do anything about it. Exactly. So moving ahead, now you just broke your pinky finger. We were at the race with you. Yes. We saw you afterwards. And you were talking about how, and you're so like, oh yeah, I think, I don't know, I couldn't grab anything. I think I might have broken it. And then talking to you today and getting the details, you didn't just break it, you smashed the fuck out of it. Didn't you have to get like screws? Yeah. So I had plates. I have a plate and several screws in the pinky, which I didn't realize you could put that much metal in a pinky finger. But I remember, I thought I had just jammed it or dislocated it because I had Dr. Brink take a look at it. And he's like, well, it's not moving very much. It's moving too much. And so after the race, after Spartan Race World Championships, when I just wanted to go out and have a beer with my friends, I sat in urgent care in Truckee for five hours while they tried to, because it was also like clawed and curled up. And so they had to like pull it out. And then he goes, you need to see a hand surgeon ASAP. And I was like, really? And he goes, these breaks, just like an oblique fracture don't heal well unless you get them fixed. So I had surgery two days later. I was lucky I was able to get in. And it's, I'm just like, really? I mean. I feel like you should pick up fishing or something. I know. It's just so. Maybe another sport. If anything, it's just annoying because you need your fingers for obstacle racing. I mean, at least I can still run right now, but it's kind of hilarious if I think about it. Well, let me ask you this. When you had your big injuries, your femur, your sacrum, looking back, do you consider them gifts now? I, when I got injured. She's like, hell no. Well, no. So this is funny. When I got injured, everyone told me, like you'll come back stronger. And I just wanted to slap them. Like people, I was like, there'll be a silver lining in this. And I'm going to smack you across the face right now. Shut up. But now reflecting back on it, I, there, yes, I do see the silver lining. And I think that learning from, you know, I flew high for so many years. And what I've learned is you don't learn anything when you're winning. And I feel like life lessons can be overrated sometimes, but I also feel like they make you a smarter person and a smarter athlete. And so to sit out for that entire year to kind of reformulate my relationship with the sport, to kind of, you know, look at where I want to go and moving forwards. And what I want to do as an athlete and as a person, I think was very valuable time for me. Tell me more about what you just said about life lessons. About how they're overrated. Where does that come from? You got to share it now. No, I mean, I think life lessons are very important, but I also think that now we can be in this situation in the culture where it's always about lessons and it's always about being deep. And people can almost like overthink and over-process and over-analyze. And sometimes you just got to be. Sometimes I think that the more miserable people, the more, sorry, if a person is miserable, it's almost because they're like stewing in their own shit way too much, you know. More often than not. Yeah, that's what I think. Right, and so I'm all for lessons and I'm all for the learning and life is a constant process and I love that process and I kind of love the ups and downs that I've learned to embrace that. But I also think that sometimes, you know, you can just circle the drain for so long. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you don't come across as somebody that. What do you currently feel like you're working on within yourself? What are you currently working on? Good question. I feel like right now I'm kind of in this transition mode in terms of, as an athlete, I mean, you go through this process where it's like, when do I hang it up, you know? And I'm not hanging it up, but if you're no longer, for so many years, I was on the top of every single podium and I was winning everything and then your offer, your from injury, you come back and you're not performing at the same level that you were. And it's kind of that process of like, I mean, for me, it was a huge ego check this year to go out there and tow that start line to know that I wasn't feeling in a position where I actually could compete for a podium spot. But just because I was so grateful to be out there and be able to run and be able to do this again, I was gonna go out there anyway. Awesome. And I think that I don't wanna be one of those people that gives up a sport because I'm no longer, you know, winning every single race. Like as long as I still love it, I'm gonna go out there and compete. And that's been, it's been a very hard process for me to like set aside that ego and be like, I'm gonna compete to the best of my ability and be fine with that. And realize like, you are not your race results, et cetera, that type of thing. And so that's been something that I've been working on. And then just really kind of owning like where I am and what is the new challenge that I wanna take on? And like I'm always gonna be involved in obstacle racing. I'm always, you know, I'm gonna run Spartan races. I'm going to run Tough Mudders, but like there are other things out there that I'm really, really drawn to and just kind of curing up and figuring out how to take those on. What you're saying about, you know, doing them because you can do them, not necessarily because you're gonna win, that kind of embodies the spirit, I think of what obstacle course racing wants to stand for. So that's pretty awesome. When's the next race for you? Or do you have any in your scope? Are you just waiting right now? Yeah, I mean, so I do, I have two big ones coming up. The first one, World's Toughest Mudder, which is, you know, is a huge, is a 24 hour race, is in two and a half weeks at this point, and that's gonna be difficult with the pinky, it's gonna be a game day decision. I mean, that's tough. People are like, just go out. There's a guy that ran with a broken arm last year. And I'm like, yeah, but I still wanna be able to compete, you know? And that's like, yes, I can go out and run it for fun, but I mean, it's really hard to do obstacles with only one hand. So I'm hoping to, you know. Nothing wrong with saying you wanna win. No, I mean, that's the thing is like, I still wanna compete. Like, so it's just like, am I okay going out there with a massive handicap? And is it smart of me? And I'm gonna have to, I see my surgeon the week before. And then there's the one in Iceland that I spoke of earlier, 20 Spartan has a 24 hour race in Iceland in December. That I should be good to go for, hopefully. And then it's next year, I think I'm gonna focus a lot more on ultras and ultramarathons. And really, I'd love to get back to Western States, which is where I was training for that when the femur happened and, you know, just some other big races on the horizon. So you strike me as somebody who probably has a lot of women that look up to her and you probably even mentor quite a few people. Do you have like a circle of people that mentor you or that you look up to or that you seek advice from or are you just so overwhelmed with everything you've got going on? I'm a lone wolf, no, I'm kidding. No, I definitely have a group of, what's funny for me is that I have, some of the people that keeps me the most grounded in my life are the people that I've known since I've been very young. And so my closest girlfriends in life were like a group of like seven of us from middle school and high school. Oh, wow. They know nothing about the racing world, but it's so refreshing and we rarely see each other because we all live in different parts of the country. But like to keep those people and keep them grounded in your life. And because they've known you from so long and they don't give a shit about my racing. Like they don't care. Yeah, it's like refreshing. They're like, do what you want, you know. But then I have some good, one of my great girlfriends, Caroline Burkle, she was an Olympic swimmer. And she has been my rock throughout all of this. And, you know, and I have just different people, different coaches and things like that that really kind of keep me together. And that's really important. And honestly, my family is the most important to me. I talk to my parents at least once a week and they hear everything. So. What does your daily schedule look like? Yeah. Yeah, I'm a morning person. Some people would say it's the middle of the night person but I'm up about 4 a.m. And then that's when I train. It's difficult now because the light in the winter, you know, sun doesn't rise until later and the trails don't open until later. But I'm out there with the headlamp normally, dodging the rangers, don't tell them that. I have none of them, listen. And, so I- You have a big ranger following? Yeah, I do, yeah. Do you have a big San Jose park ranger following? Yeah, it's huge. Yeah. Yeah, so I run and I train in the morning. I mean, I run generally five to six days a week. I have a one full rest day. And then, you know, do some strength a few times a week. And then I'm at work by about 8 a.m. and then work through the day. And then sometimes I'll do like the strength session in the evenings and whatnot. And then I go to bed, turn into a pumpkin about 9 or 10 p.m. and do it all over again. So I have, I've had to put stuff in place to kind of de-stress or relax because I have a very similar go-go life. One of the things that's been huge for me is I've started to like turn my electronics off by like 7 p.m. Because if I go beyond that, I have a real hard time sleeping for years. I slept four hours a night. And I just thought I was one of those people that will always toss and turn and never be able to sleep until I started diving more into it and trying to figure out. And that's been a huge hack for me to do that. And I always know when I don't, it makes a difference on my sleep. And when I do, it improves it. Have you found things that you've added into your life that kind of help you get out of that go-go mentality all the time? Yeah, so I have a nightly routine, kind of wind-down routine that's been really helpful for me. And I don't know how much of it is actually science or just the entire ritual of it. But I generally, I take epsom salt baths almost every single night. Oh, there's science to that. The amount of epsom salt that I go through is gnarly. Like I need dropship vents every few weeks. And I also, I recently got a red, like a red light or a near infrared light by the Juve guys. Yeah, we have one here. Yeah, that thing has been fantastic. So I like... Have you noticed benefit from using it? Yeah, I mean, it's difficult to quantify sometimes, you know? Because there's so many things. There's so many different things, you know? I like to be super scientific about it. But yeah, I mean, I've noticed definitely, especially if I have nagging tendon, muscle type of stuff, I actually will lay on the ground and put my feet up against it, like legs up against it. You know when you put like your legs up against the wall and then use it that way. And I don't know, I'm so far so good. I've only had it for about a month or so. But do that at night. And then so I just kind of like putting those things in place before bed. And then I lay on an acupressure mat every night. Have you ever seen those? Like they have little like, they're called like bed of nails. Like the little like spiky things. You sleep on that or you just lay on it? I've fallen asleep on it, which is not a good idea. I mean, apparently it's OK to sleep on them. But I woke up, my back was on fire. But no, I so I actually meditate at night, which most people don't recommend. Everyone says you just do it in the morning, but that's what I do right before I go to bed. Hey, if it works for you. I lay on my acupressure mat and I listen to calm. Is my is my app of choice. And then I go to bed and that's, you know, worked out really well for me. You said you increased your fat intake too. Yeah. How is that? What kind of fat and how is that? Has it has it helped you in any way? Yeah, it's primarily been through oils, you know, coconut oils and avocado oil, things like that. And then trying to actually increase the amount of fatty meat. I think I've always had an aversion to fatty meat. But I think that there's a place in, you know, for I try, I've definitely tried to increase red meat intake as well, you know, like fattier cuts of that to get in some of that. I mean, like I said, it's hard to notice it. Like it's hard to because I'm not very scientific about it. And I'm like throwing in everything all at once. But I definitely feel in just in terms of recovery and whatnot and and just healing process is helped out by the extra fat intake. That's awesome. Have you ever tried to follow like a super regimen meal plan before or if you just kind of exercised your way through most of my super regimen pop tart? Well, I do like that you're honest about that because it is. I mean, the amount of exercise and movement you're doing, you probably could almost eat it out. Yeah, I think I can get into a slippery slope if I try and get too controlled with my diet. I tried to go super low carb and did a stint. I did a three-day fast actually during one of my femur was broken because I had heard about how fasting can actually, you know, send your growth hormone levels through the roof. Stimulate stem cell growth, all that stuff. Which then stimulates healing. And so I- But maybe not during injury. No, yeah. Though it was an interesting experiment because by the third day of like fasting and I was taking a bit of exogenous ketones, like I was flying high. I felt, I have fantastic. I was like, I could do this for 10 days. And then like, no, I mean, but I don't recommend that. But, so I've never really gotten, that was the only time that I'd ever like really gotten ketosis, but I see how people like can kind of thrive on that. But I just, it's too restrictive. I mean, it's just too hard. Well, you're an endurance athlete. It's not as advantageous for someone like you. True though. There are a lot of, I mean, Zach Bitter as a fat adapted. We've had Zach on this show. But he's not, I don't think he's true. I don't, I don't- No, he still uses the carbs. So he uses carbs, yeah. He runs keto. He just times it. And then, then he, yeah, exactly. Then it just takes way less now, right? So that's what's so great about it. Because it increases insulin sensitivity so much. So then when he is racing or running, he can take, you know, carbs and his body just utilizes them very effectively. And I don't remember what he said, it was, it was quite, it was more of- It was a huge difference. Yeah, it was the difference between, I think in races in the past, you'd eat up to 600, 900 grams of carbs where he only needed like 300 now or whatever. Yeah, I would love, I mean, in an ideal world, I would love to be, I mean, to get into that process, to, you know, to become a fat adapted athlete takes, you know, a fair amount of time. And it's, I've heard it's really hard for women. It's much, much harder for women. So when you're very true, so going so restrictive, either cutting too much fat or too many carbs for women while training at a very, very high intensity, when you put that all together, it can spell disaster for hormones. It can cause, so whereas, you know, you can have estrogen issues when you go too low fat, you can have thyroid issues. If you go too low carb for too long, cycling it is what some people will find. Yeah, so if it's something about like the T3 or T4, I can't remember which one of those is that can be thrown off by the low carb for women. Yeah, because your body starts to adapt. So I'm starving and I'm exercising a lot, let's adapt by reducing our activity with our thyroid. So it's not necessarily a good idea. And as far as endurance is concerned, you can, these ultra high, you know, marathon runners, some of them do do ketogenic diets and do very well, but when you're doing obstacles, which require some strength, probably not a good idea for performance, you're probably better off doing a little bit of both. Yeah, I would never, it's, I mean, it's fascinating to me, but it's one of those things where I'm like, all right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get in ketosis, I'm gonna become fat adapted. And then like three hours later, I'm like, ooh, a bowl of chocolates. Yeah. So it's just not gonna work. I've been meaning to ask you since you came in, your necklace. Yes. What is that? It looks like a bone. It is a buffalo tooth actually. Oh, wow. Yes. Is there any meaning behind it? It was given to me and I really like it. And I can kind of like rub it almost like a worry stone when I'm stressed out. And I don't think it was supposed to be a necklace, but I made it into one. So I like it. Very cool. Very, very cool. Well, thanks for coming on. Yeah, thanks for having me. It's been awesome talking to you. You're very inspiring and I'm looking forward to seeing what you do in the future, whether that means winning more races or moving in different directions or whatever. It's very compelling hearing some of your story. So excellent. Thanks for coming on. Yes, always welcome down here. Check it out, go to YouTube, Mind Pump TV. We post a new video every single day. You can also find us on Instagram at Mind Pump Radio. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. 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