 I like shooting guns, but I've done that, but it just doesn't seem like that. It just doesn't feel like I don't want to spend my time sitting out there. It's a normal one, huh? I'm sure it's fine. Team three. This is pass. It's not what you think. Why are you no? Okay. Call to order. This is the 16th regular meeting of the 2011-2012 Common Council. And as is customary, our city clerk, Sue Richards, will read us the quote of the evening. Thank you, Mayor. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path. Thank you, Sue. Just a note to everybody, there will be a special Common Council meeting regarding the 2012 budget at 5.30 p.m. in the council chambers, one week from today on Monday, November 28th. Roll call, please. Belt. Here. Lauren. Here. Carlson. Here. Decker. Excused. Hammond. Here. Hammond. Here. Heidemann. Here. Cot. Here. Kettleson. Here. Manichuk. Here. Racler. Here. Alderman Racler and the Pledge of Allegiance, please. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you, Cory. Looking for approval of the minutes of the prior Common Council meeting. Move to approve. We have a motion to approve and a second under discussion on the minutes. There is no discussion. All in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion carries. Mayor's appointments. Attorney McLean. Honorable members of the council, I hereby submit the following appointments for your consideration. All the person. Daryl Carlson to be appointed to the finance committee as vice chairman to fill the unexpired term of Eric Rinflaes whose term expires 416-2012. All the person. Frederick Belt to be appointed to the law and licensing committee to fill the unexpired term of Eric Rinflaes whose term expires 416-2012. And all the person. Kevin Sampson to be appointed to the sustainable Sheboygan task force to fill the unexpired term of Eric Rinflaes whose term expires 416-2012. That lies over. Kevin reads to be considered for appointment to the housing authority to fill the unexpired term of Joe Ruppnick whose term expires 423-2012. Signed by the mayorals. That lies over also. For confirmation, the following appointments to the business improvement district, Cleo Messner, Eileen Simons, Katelyn Brotz, Mike Miller, Mary Christian and Bill Holbrook. Signed by the mayorals. Looking for a motion on that? Move to confirm. Second. We have a motion to confirm in the second under discussion on approving the appointments for the bid district. There is no discussion. All in favor say aye. Aye. We need a roll call. We need a roll call? Yep. We need a roll call. Roll call please. Belt. Aye. Boran. Aye. Carlson. Aye. Hammond. Aye. Hammond. Aye. Katt. Aye. Kettleson. Aye. 15 ayes. Appointments are confirmed. Public forum? Soup? Yep. This evening we have two on public forum. First on the list is Agnes Sorens. Agnes, if you could come up to the front please. Agnes, I need your home address. 1415, come look. And you might want to pull your mic down just a bit. Do I have to? Yes, you do. And you will have five minutes. Okay. I'm here this morning to ask the council not to pass the $40 fee for the clear water inspection. I sent a proposal to you all and received an email back from Mr Pellecek outlining all the usual excuses that it would be time consuming to bill the people and the realtors that did not show up for inspections. I myself would volunteer 10 hours a month to help with the billing situation. The sellers fees could then be added to the final water bill, but they're not looking for fair solutions, just another stream of revenue. The big picture is that say 100 homes sold, perhaps 70 of those homes are ROEs, are EOs and foreclosures. The properties are owned by companies and banks that are not in this area. In fact, most of them are in other states. I would like to find out how you think and propose you're going to collect that $40 clear water inspection fee. Is it really going to be worth all the trouble? These companies are now striking the clear water addendum from our offer to purchase contracts. I asked for a count to date on the inspections and there have been 663 inspections. This would have brought in to date this year a stream of revenue of $26,520, a tidy sum of money. The citizens will hold due accountable for how this money is spent if and when this fee is approved. Again, I asked the council not to approve this fee. At the last meeting we were told over and over again it was all about the money. It was not about the money that this fee would generate, but it was all about accountability. When I asked for a count of the no shows at the inspections, the answer was, oh, we didn't keep count. Well, if the no shows are such a problem, I certainly would have kept a count. It all comes down to the new stream of revenue and I'm asking you as a council to say no to this $40 fee. The $40 fee may not seem such a big deal to most of yous, but ask a seller who has not worked for one or two years and is trying to sell their home before it goes into foreclosure to save the credit scores and try to move on. The fee is just another hardship for homeowners. The council should choose its battles, the problem which roams just around the corner concerning the city's trash trucks which will be a bigger hurdle for somewhere between $500,000 to $600,000 and the solution to that will no doubt fall on the homeowners of the city of Sheboygan also. Please do not pass this fee. Thank you, Agnes. Thank you, Agnes. Next. Next is Tom Bowers. Tom, can I have your home address please? 2120 North 36th. And you will have five minutes, sir. Thank you. Citizens of Sheboygan. Originally I was going to come before you tonight with some information regarding unpaid taxes, which I will, but I also would like to bring up, we will be having a recall election, supposedly in February, and we have as of now four male candidates. I would like to see some female women in the community take out papers. It seems we're not having too good luck with the males. So I think if we have enough qualified females that they would give this serious consideration so that the males that we have running are nothing wrong with them. But maybe a change of view with some women that had a city government. So ladies, give it a thought. Okay. Now to get into what originally I was going to speak on, the unpaid taxes in the county of Sheboygan. And I was fortunate that the county treasurer gave me the following information just so you can follow along. Unpaid taxes in the year 2002, 2003, at the end of September, $1,520. So approximately $170,000 house in the county did not pay their taxes. 2003 went up to $18,221. 2004, 32,312. 2005, 73,176. 2006, 114,238. 2007, 183,696. You can see the progression of unpaid taxes and what is happening to our county. 2008, 294,969. 2009, 633,919. Now get this, year 2010, 2011, $1,397,449,000. Look at the progression from the year 2002, $1,520 to $1,397,449. Now that doesn't mean that at the end of the year that bomb was outstanding, but it shows you what's outstanding at the beginning of the year. Now to take it one step further, I said, well could you tell me taxes that are outstanding Sheboygan Falls? $327,000. Plymouth, $264,000. Which $54,347 are owned by Mayor of Sheboygan. Now I don't understand how a household income of over $107,000 with good health insurance, good pension does not pay their taxes for two years in the city of Plymouth. So maybe the explanation is it's a LLC which doesn't make it any less different than taxes are owed. Maybe Mr. Ryan could inform the citizens of Sheboygan County why he hasn't paid his taxes. Thank you, Tom. Thank you. That's it. Okay, thank you, Sue. Moving on to Mayor's announcements. First of all, I would like to address the former Alderman Bowers comments on the city of Plymouth. I still do own one property out in the city of Plymouth, which is a business that indeed there are some property taxes owed on that business. There are many property taxes owned by many businesses and LLCs. This is an LLC, an S corporation that I do not operate myself. That is the explanation to Alderman Bowers if he's looking for an explanation. I have been a full-time mayor for the last three years. I do not operate that business. I have been operating this business as the mayor of the city of Sheboygan. You are not allowed to work another job. And on top of that, if anybody knows anything about the commercial market out there and we have realtors in this room, there's a lot of properties that are upside down in the commercial business. All of my taxes in the city of Sheboygan are paid. My home taxes have always been paid. That entity is a commercial property. It is not my personal taxes. It is not my home taxes. If that answers Alderman Bowers, I appreciate you for your information there, Alderman Bowers. I appreciate that. So hopefully that explains it to you. Alderman Bowers, I'm speaking, please sit down. Your time to finish, your time has come. You're done talking, please sit. On a lighter note, our department of tourism came out with a slogan earlier this year called, How do you Sheboygan? I remember when that came out, it kind of made a splash. And people said, that doesn't make any sense. Some people said, how do you Sheboygan? That's not even proper English. I looked at it and I said, I had nothing to do with this. I didn't know about it. I think it's gold. I said, I think it's great. It's a catchy phrase. Everybody remembers it. Well, the Markham Awards, which is a national award giving it, giving out two marketing campaigns, has named the How do you Sheboygan campaign, have given them a gold Markham Award. This is a national award for the How do you Sheboygan campaign. So this was a campaign that was designed by Amy Gaturas and George Tuig in our department of tourism. And Amy Wilson, excuse me. Now Amy Wilson. So they won a national award, a gold Markham Award for marketing and promotion category for the 2011 How do you Sheboygan Award. They should be congratulated. They also got an honorable mention. An honorable mention for a t-shirt design on the How do you Sheboygan campaign, which was something that was inspired by Slater Gaturas. Slater is Amy's seven-year-old son. I don't know if any of you have met Slater. If you ever met him, you'd remember him. Slater decided that his How do you Sheboygan t-shirt would be called I Fight Zombies, and he received an honorable mention for that. So we congratulate them. Sunday, November 27th is the Christmas Parade, also known as the Holiday Parade. I will have to say that. It begins at 5 o'clock p.m. I believe the route will be the same as always is. It will go north on 7th Street to Erie Avenue and then back down south on A Street. We'll end at the library. We will have the city tree lighting immediately following that, at which we hope many people will show up. And at the same time, we will have cookies and hot chocolate, which will be done by my wife and my mother-in-law, as they have in years past. So we hope everybody joins us for the lighting of the Christmas tree and the singing of some Christmas carols. Also, immediately following this meeting will be a Committee of the Whole meeting. We will take about a 10-minute break following this meeting, so people that don't want to stay for the Committee of the Whole will have time to vacate, and that will be aired live also on television. That is all I have for Mayor's announcements. Are we going to do the... We'll do the zoning hearing first. Okay, first we will do hearings. We have two hearings this evening. Number one, to amend the city zoning map to change the use district classification of 1216 Union Avenue from NR neighborhood residential to NC neighborhood commercial. And number... Okay, that will be the first hearing. Is there anybody that would like to be heard regarding this hearing? We have one gentleman, two people that would like to be heard regarding the changing of the classification at 1216 Union Avenue. Sir, if you'd like to be heard, please step up to the mic. Can you give me your name, sir? My name is Phil Nitterman. Philip Nitterman, right? And your address, sir? I live at 18048, South 17th Street. South 17th. Go ahead. This has to do with the property at 1216 Union Avenue. My homestead property is adjacent to that property. And I am suggesting that it remains neighborhood residential rather than go to the neighborhood commercial because it's a nice little neighborhood. And it's been being pushed out by the businesses. One particular business. And I would just like to have it maintain the neighborhood like it always has been. As long as the properties are taken care of, it's a good little place to raise kids with the other area. There's kids in every house adjacent to where I live. And they're all good little kids. I'd like to see them have a comfortable neighborhood. And that's my recommendation. Thank you for your time. Thank you, Mr. Nitterman. Thank you, sir. Next. Ma'am, please step up. Can I get your name, please? Laurie Mackie. What is it? Laurie Mackie. Laurie? Yes. And how do you spell the last name, Laurie? M-A-K-I. And your address? 2006 South 12th Street. Okay. Go ahead. Okay. I live on the other side of the mini mart next to the house that's going to be rezoned or wants to be rezoned. I would ask that it not be rezoned. As it is, we live next to the mini mart that causes its own problems. We have a terrific amount of garbage that comes from the mini mart, not only from the mini mart and its dumpsters that are supposed to be kept closed, locked. They are not. You can go there today and see dumpsters that are overflowing that garbage is in our yard on a daily basis. There is not a time that we have to cut our grass that garbage is not part of our grass cutting. A garden that is not full of garbage and granted the mini mart was there when we moved in. It is something that we have to live with but I would ask that we don't have to live next to another building that goes up because once it goes from a residential, one property becomes commercial, the next one goes commercial and then it goes further and further. It's hard enough to keep our neighborhood that goes secular from being nice neighborhoods and people are trying to improve on their houses to businesses with garbage and people walking to the mini mart, dropping their wrappers, dropping their food, their containers. I have cigarette wrappers today in my driveway, in my flower beds. It's just a mess. There's garbage, there's unrun of traffic and adding more to it is just going to make the problems ten times worse and it greatly affects us because we live next to it but it does affect the whole neighborhood. There's children that live in the neighborhood, there's more cars, there's more traffic. It's just a mess and I'd ask that it doesn't be done. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anybody else would like to be heard on the hearing regarding the U.S. District classification of this address? There is not me. We have a motion to close this hearing. We can do both at the end. We're doing both? Okay. Okay, we will go to the second public hearing then this is a hearing at which any resident or taxpayer of the governmental unit shall have the opportunity to be heard on the proposed budget. Anybody that would like to be heard, we do have a list. Now I will remind everybody that the discussion is limited to the budget. First on the list, Sue. I'm going to call a few people up so you don't have to climb over everybody to get up here. The first group, why don't we have Christina and Indigo come up? And Maeve, could you come on up and be ready after the girls are done? And Arthur, is that all? Arthur, could you come up and just be behind Maeve? That'd be great. Girls, do you want to come over here? They can't reach the mic, sorry. So who wants to talk first? You want to talk first? Don't you get a little closer to the mic? Okay, go ahead. You want her to go first? Let's go ahead and read it. We love the books at Meade Public Library. The place is special to us. It is our future. Give me the bag. Library's books are the key to our hearts. They make us smarter. Save our future. Don't shut us down, ever. We are second graders from Longfellow School. Okay, girls. You want to say something? Okay, go ahead. You embarrassed? Okay, that's all right. I think they got your message. Thanks, girls. Thank you, ladies. Next. Maeve, I won't make you come up. I can't go up there. No, that's okay. Thank you, Mayor Ryan, Alderman and the citizens for this opportunity to speak with you tonight. My name is Maeve Quinn and I'm a city resident. I'm also president of the Board of Trustees of Meade Public Library. Well, all of you are certainly in a very difficult position this month, really trying to find a way to balance the city budget. And you've been given lots and lots of financial details these last few weeks. These last few years, of course, have been quite challenging economic times for Sheboygan. And the library has done its best with the reductions to its budget. The library budget submitted to this city is almost $100,000 less than last year's budget. The proposed 2012 funding is 7.8% below what is recommended for maintenance of effort, even though maintenance of effort is no longer in place. Additionally, library employees did not receive a general increase this year or for next year. For the last three years, library employees incurred a salary reduction of close to 2% due to the five furlough days. We have been good stewards of the money you have appropriated for Meade Public Library. And as was shared at a recent city finance committee meeting, we are now at a point where additional cuts may result in cutting more employees, which then, of course, will result in reducing the hours of the library services. As you're all very aware, the mission of the Meade Public Library is to provide the information and cultural center and judging from the over 350,000 visits to the library this past year, we are continuing this mission to inform, educate, enlighten, inspire. Thank you. Thank you, Maeve. Thank you, Maeve. Next. Arthur. My name is Arthur Zell, and I had a couple things here, but I think what I'm going to do is really make it simplified. Just like with the garbage pickup, I don't really think it should be privatized for a simple reason. I'm looking at the idea of, well, the stability of the price of how it's going to even stay at a present level if it were to be at that time privatized. The reliability and the quality in fall, winter, and spring, those are usually the worst times. And being that I'm disabled to start with and I do have a hard time getting around, is usually my concern. And with the budget, well, I feel that it's going to be more expensive in the long run for the citizens of Sheboygan to have this privatized, because when you have something privatized, they can skew the amount of money that they charge. And sometimes maybe with this lady that was up here talking about 16th and 17th Street with the garbage, I'm assuming that's done by a private company. If that's something we got to look forward to, I don't think that's going to be really good quality. And I understand about you got to cut somewhere. It's just that maybe we can try and find a way to come to an agreement with this and maybe just maybe we can move forward in making our vehicles here, even the buses and the trucks that are used more fuel efficient that would cut it down greatly because I know 60% of the budget is fuel. So this is what I'm looking at and I'm hoping that the rest of you look at the fine print when you think about privatizing, because I don't think it's going to work very well for the rest of us because we may end up eventually having individual bills instead of having one bill either on our taxes or, well, that's all I've got to say. Thank you. Thank you, Arthur. Thank you, Arthur. Next. Why don't we have Mary Lynn, Donahue, and Corey? Thank you. Good evening. My name is Mary Lynn Donahue. I am pleased and honored tonight to be presenting to the City Clerk petitions in support of Meade Public Library, gathered by many citizens who have felt a little frostbitten in the last couple of weeks. Over 1,650 signatures on petitions requesting that library funding not be cut. And if I remember Sue, I'll give these to you before I sit down. Okay. How do you Sheboygan? Well, 35,000 of us Sheboygan by having Meade Public Library cards. We make over 350,000 visits to the library. We check out almost 900,000 items on a yearly basis. We ask more than 36,000 questions of reference librarians, even though those services have been cut back. Almost 1,000 of us every day look at the Meade Public Library website. We use this library. It is important to the fiber and the culture and the spirit and the prosperity of this community. I expect many of you were at the Schweng County Economic Development Corporation gathering at Acuity this past week. Yours is a very difficult position. I guarantee you nobody in this room envies what you have to do. But like the SCEDC, you need to keep your eyes on the prize. And the prize is a beautiful, prosperous community. So when you drive through Sheboygan, you don't say to yourself, as you do in some counties or cities in Wisconsin, gee, I guess their property taxes aren't very high because the place looks like it's falling apart. Sheboygan is a lovely place. Part of the loveliness of the place is Meade Public Library. It has been cut. It has worked efficiently to reduce staff, to reduce costs, to keep a high level of service that has been compromised to some degree. But don't make this library a place that's only opened some of the time. It's known as the place where you can get old books, but not new books. The place where, if you're lucky enough to find a reference library and you can ask a question, a place where you can't find an internet connection, you can't use a computer because those services just aren't available anymore. How do we Sheboygan? We Sheboygan by reading, listening to music, watching movies, learning about the world around us, communicating with our neighbors, and keeping our eye on the prize of the city of Sheboygan is a wonderful place to live. That's how we Sheboygan, and I do thank you for your time. Thank you, Marilyn. Next will be Corey. Corey, can you give the audience your name, please? Sure. I'm Corey Andreessen, city of Sheboygan resident. I moved to town about 12 years ago. We have young children, they're not as young anymore. We spent a lot of time at Mead Public Library. Since we moved to town, we've met other people who have moved to town, and whenever the subject comes up for the first time, people always, like, isn't that a wonderful place? It's a real point of pride for the city of Sheboygan. And, you know, not only isn't it a wonderful library, but people have said, that was one of the reasons we chose to move to Sheboygan. Not just because of the building, though, I think. The library tells something about what our community values. A good, thriving library shows that we value knowledge, we value culture, we value ideas. And I think we need to keep valuing those things. And I know the budget is tight, and I know tough decisions have to be made, but when we look at what's happened at the schools in the community, the library staff there has been decimated already by budget cuts. We've got library staff doing what two, two-and-a-half people were doing a few years ago. It's... Anybody who thinks that the service is fine because of that is deluding themselves. So, we don't have any control over what goes to the public schools, what comes from the state, but we can control what we do with our public library here in town. And I think we really need to maintain that beacon for a city. Thank you. Thank you, Corey. Thank you. Next. Then we have... Carol, can you give everybody your name, please? Carol Dussault, 2736 North 30th Street. I came here tonight to speak on behalf of the Meade Public Library. Like all the other people who use it, I'm amazed constantly at all the things the library does and provides. And considering all the budget cuts that have happened in the past few years, it's doubly a miracle. You know, especially things like the Sunday hours. There are computer services that the children that I previously taught used quite a bit and often relied on. And those same computer services are now something that many of the unemployed in this town use and really need. The books are available. Most books that are in print are available in some way, shape, or form through the Eastern Shores Library Loan Program, which is an invaluable resource and used by many people very effectively. The children's room at Meade Public Library is stunning. The children love to go there. Kids of all ages love to go there. There aren't that many other cities that have this kind of treasure, really and truly. I think when the children of this town come into that library, they not only feel valued for themselves, but they see the value of books and education and they see that we value that too. We pass on that legacy to them. But I see now that if you cut the library further, you're going to start really dismantling this treasure. This is something that the city of Sheboygan can really feel proud of. The treasures, one of the center pieces of this town and that's, as previously mentioned, people come here all the time and are amazed at what they find here. At this time when everything is so polarized in our politics, I don't want this city to send a message that being informed and educated isn't a priority. Thank you. And Kathy? Kathy, can you give the audience your name please? Kathy Krieger. So our country is going through some pretty tough times. And during tough times we often need to pull together as a community to overcome those times. We've been through bad times before, tough times. Our parents went through much worse times and they made it. That's why we're all here. We can do it again but I want to talk about the library as a community center. During tough times people seek out community and they seek out places where they can go to improve themselves, to seek out others who can help them, seek out resources that can help them and a library can serve that purpose. It's the closest thing to a community center this city has. I recommend the book Dewey. It's a nonfiction book about a library cat but it talks about the times when we had the small farm crisis in this country. It's set in Iowa and it talks about how that library became the community center that helped people through. People sought out the resources there to find other jobs because they couldn't work on the farms anymore. So I think we need to very carefully look at the funding, at cutting funding for the library. I think it's a very important resource and you shouldn't do that rashly. And I think it's also a good idea that if you have to make cuts that you remember that the people at the top earning scale have gained a lot over the last 30 years and maybe those are the people that need to start making some bigger sacrifices since they got bigger benefits over the last 30 years. So maybe you want to look there. I also want to speak about privatization of our garbage service. I'm concerned about that. I think that you lose some accountability. We've always had good garbage service. I've lived in this city all of my life. I've never had to worry about my garbage not being picked up. The biggest worry I've had is getting it out on time for them. They've done a great job all these years and I'd like to see it continue that way. I've read and heard about horror stories out east where some of these services are privatized and by not so nice characters and then you have garbage piling up because of work stoppages and other political wranglings. So I would sure hate to see that happen at Sheboygan. I've traveled a bit out west and I've seen places where you're amazed by the garbage lying on the side of the road and you can't believe that they can let their communities be like this. But you come here and you see that Sheboygan's a pretty darn clean city. Let's keep it that way. Thank you. Thank you, Kathy. Thank you, Kathy. Next. That's all. Okay. Thank you everybody for speaking. We have a motion to close the hearings. Absolutely. I move that the hearings be closed. Second. We have a motion and a second to close the public hearings under discussion. Any discussion? All in favor of closing the hearings say aye. Aye. Opposed? Hearings are closed. On to the consent agenda. 16-1 through 16-15. Vice President Hammond. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I move that all our seats be accepted and adopted and all resolutions and ordinance will be put upon the passage. Second. We have a motion and a second to put 16-1 through 16-15 upon its passage under discussion. There's no discussion. Roll call please. Corrin. Aye. Carlson. Aye. Hammond. Aye. Hammond. Aye. Kittleson. Aye. Manichuk. Aye. Sampson. Aye. Van Akron. Aye. Van Der Wiel. Aye. Versi. Aye. Belton. Aye. 15 ayes. Motion carries. Reports of officers to 16-16 lies over to November 28th. 16-17 through 16-20 to be referred. 16-21 to be referred. Resolutions introduce 3-16-22 by Alderperson Kittleson, authorizing acceptance of 2012 Wisconsin's Bureau of Transportation Safety Seat Belt Enforcement Grants. Alderperson Kittleson. Thank you, Mayor. I would ask for a motion to accept this grant and put the resolution upon its passage. Second. We have a motion and a second to put the resolution upon its passage under discussion. We can see this is a $30,000 grant. This is the third year in a row that we've gotten this grant to assist in developing the city's capacity to provide additional patrols engaging in high visibility enforcement of speeding and seat belt enforcement. I think you're all to person Kittleson. Any further discussion? There's no further discussion. Roll call please. Carlson. Aye. Hammond. Aye. Hammond. Aye. Kittleson. Aye. Manichuk. Aye. Racler. Aye. Samson. Aye. Van Akron. Aye. Vanderweel. Aye. Versi. Aye. Belt. Aye. And Boran. Aye. And not 15, but 14. Motion carries. 1623 by Alderperson Kittleson authorized application for the 2012 Wisconsin DOT Bureau of Transportation Safety Data Driven Approaches to Crime Security Grant Solicitation Alderperson Kittleson. Thanks again, Mayor. I would ask that we accept this grant by putting the resolution upon its passage. Second. We have a motion and a second to put the resolution upon its passage under discussion. Under discussion this is a $35,000 grant. I believe this is the third year in a row for this one as well from the Wisconsin Department of Transportation Bureau of Safety and this would be for deployment of resources to high visibility traffic enforcement based on local crime and crash data. Thank you, Alderperson Kittleson. Any further discussion? There's no further discussion. Roll call please. Harmon. Aye. Hammond. Aye. Heidemann. Aye. Kant. Aye. Kittleson. Aye. Madicek. Aye. Racler. Aye. Samson. Aye. Van Akron. Aye. Vanderweel. Aye. Versi. Aye. Belt. Aye. Boran. Aye. Carlson. Aye. 14. Motion carries 1624 by Alderpersons. Hammond, Boran, Madicek, and Van Akron approving information technology department policy IT-06 Vice President Hammond. Thank you Mr. Mayor. I move the resolution to be put upon its passage. Second. Motion and a second to put the resolution upon its passage under discussion Vice President Hammond IT-06. Thank you. This is a policy that has to do with social media, Twitter, Facebook those types of things that as we go into that age and the city gets more involved in that they felt it and we felt the need to have that and I just also like to make a comment that Dave did a great job putting this together so thank him for his efforts. Thank you Vice President Hammond. I'm familiar with Twitter myself. Any further discussion? If there is no further discussion all in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion carries. 1625 by Alderperson's Hammond, Boren, Madicek, and Van Akron authorizing the Chief Administrative Officer to enter into contract for obtaining audit services. Vice President Hammond. Thank you Mr. Mayor. I move the resolution to be put upon its passage. Second. Motion and a second to put the resolution upon its passage under discussion if there is no discussion roll call please. Hammond. Aye. That would be you. Making sure. She's got a bound patina. Heidemann. Aye. Coth. Aye. Kittelsen. Aye. Madicek. Aye. Racler. Aye. Samson. Aye. Van Akron. Aye. Vanderweal. Aye. Versey. No. Felt. Aye. Boren. Aye. Carlson. Aye. and Hammond. Aye. Thirteen ayes one no. Motion carries. 1626 through 1630 to be referred 1631 to be referred. Reports of committees seven. 1632 by law and licensing making no recommendations on the taxi cab driver's license application number nine three five one for Javier Yerra. Alderperson Vanderweal. Okay at our meeting there was a tie vote so we were not able to give a recommendation whether to approve the license or disapprove it. I do believe that he is in attendance tonight. Okay. And so you could maybe talk to the whole council. Mr. Yerra, would you like to come forward please? Alderperson Vanderweal, can you tell us why the committee was unable to make a decision? Yes, he revealed a 2008 domestic conduct, a 2008 bail jumping a 2010 misdemeanor stalking in a 2011 Violate Domestic Violence Order. He did not reveal a 2009 Violate Domestic Violence Order and two 2010 disolate conducts. The police department did have a concern as to the fact that there's quite a few domestic things as well as felony stalking and although it has to do with family issues his wife is living in town and there was just the committee couldn't decide they couldn't make a decision either way. That was 2-2 on the committee. 2-2, yes. Mr. Yerra, would you like to speak? Yes, sure. Would you like to know if we can just have an explanation as to why you think that the council should approve this license and maybe explain some of the questions that they may have regarding what you revealed and what you didn't on the application? Well, I thought I did put it on. I mean, it's not a something I want to hide. I tried to list all what I could remember. I even spoke to that lady over there and I tried to list everything that I could remember and I even went to the courthouse to pick up my criminal history and I brought it back to her and we went over everything and bottom line is I'm not trying to hide anything. I'm just trying to find employment here. I had two jobs from Milwaukee that I lost coming up here to be with my wife and to try to tell everybody about our history would take a very long time. It's in depth and it goes further than what is on paper. I have here a bunch of character letters that I have with me and people that from the years have been involved in our cases and things like that and we have counselors through our church that are working with us and things like that so I don't think that it would be an issue for me to or recognize as an issue for me to be trying to stalk my wife or anything like that because that's it goes deeper than that and it wasn't and I just took the plea because it was such a good plea deal at the beginning I should have fought the case because I probably would have won but he gave me a deal so I took that and like I said I told him before that the only reason it went through is because I got revocated because of being in Sheboygan when I had court and that's the only reason everything got deferred and one thing led to another and they had to give me the felony stalking but I don't think I'm a threat to anyone my wife I mean she had one before you know this is something that she's done before and the day of our divorce which was June 17 of last year she wanted to reconcile she told her lawyer her lawyer told my lawyer and you know things turned around you know so it's up and down with us and again I've lost two jobs behind this and to go home now it's probably harder now because I have a Christian base organization that I'm with here I'm with the band of brothers and I do the upper room and I do a lot of things with the love and marriage and the respect with the Emerson videos and things like that so what's on paper is totally different you know and it's difficult to just explain everything right now because it's up and down and it would take forever for me to explain everything in detail thank you Mr. are there any questions from the council Alderperson Koth thank you Mayor Ryan I was actually one of those no votes based on the fact that you've been in the city of Sheboygan since March you have no history of employment in the city of Sheboygan and the police department had concerns with the felony stalking and I based that on with my noble thank you Alderperson Koth the stalking was with your wife that's where the charge came from before you reconciled with your wife right and you're now reconciled and we're not right now or no at the time when they said it was the stalking she actually started speaking on my behalf with the DA and that's why it was a two years probation between days in jail so that's how I went from stalking to me having two years probation between days in jail because she spoke up for me so that's me says a lot about my wife and how we are up and down and I mean no one's going to say he's stalking me and then turn around and stand up for you it's just up and down thank you Mr. Yara Mr. Yara what kind of work did you do when you were in Milwaukee? I was in the hospitality hotel industry I was the head doorman for the Fister Hotel for seven years and I was at the women's club of Wisconsin for five years and just about a year ago I was at the double tree which was previously the Holiday Inn and then before that the Howard Johnson so I've been in the hotel industry have you if I could follow up Mary have you looked for any hospitality positions in Sheboygan? I have but there hasn't been any turnouts positive turnouts the chains are littler so all the little hotels they don't have that many what I was doing was valet Bellman things like that shuttle driving Sheboygan is pretty small and that's why I wanted to try to do the taxi license so I can drive the limo zines and he says well Santos I believe Santana Santana says they do stuff here and they also go through to Milwaukee and I know Milwaukee pretty well and I mean that would be right up my alley it's just to go to Milwaukee come back here and be based here and just go from there hospitality service industry are you looking to go to work for Mr. Santana then? exactly this is the first step in the long process too so this is the first part of getting to there so did I understand you correctly to say tell the mayor that you are presently with your wife or you are not we're separated you're separated thank you thank you Alderman Barn any other questions Alderman Reisler please please I'm just curious how your driving record is that's fine have you ever had your driver's license suspended or revolved? no not that I know of no thank you Alderman Reisler any other questions for Mr. Yerra you may step down sir thank you okay if there are no more questions no more discussion we will go to roll call and I vote would approve we need to make a motion we need a motion first do we have a motion on the floor to approve or deny thank you Mr. Mayor I move that we approve the license for Mr. Yerra we have a motion and a second to approve the license for Mr. Yerra any further discussion? if there is none and I vote would approve I no vote would deny roll call please Heidemann? Aye Cuth? No Reisler? Aye Samson? Aye Van Akron? No Vanderweel? Aye Versi? No Belt? Aye Boren? Aye Carlson? Aye Hammond? Aye Hammond? Aye Levin? Aye's three no's your license is approved sir you can go to the city clerk's office tomorrow thank you Heidemann? 1633 by public protection and safety recommending amending the code relating to certification of compliance with clear water requirements to add permit fees to require a written request for a clear water inspection and to further require a permit fee for the same Alderperson Kettleson? Thank you Mayor I make a motion to put the ordinance upon its passage please second we have a motion and a second to put the ordinance upon its passage under discussion under discussion mayor I just want to let you know that at public protection and safety we did have quite a lengthy discussion on the fee Chad was there as was our Chad from our planning department as was Dan Benversy our clear water inspector as to the reasoning behind putting this fee on the on the clear water requirement we know that Sheboygan Falls town of Wilson have been doing these fees for quite a while and so for accountability purposes we're asking that the fee be put on the clear water inspection thank you Alderperson Kettleson under further discussion Alderman Raceler I think that's from last time sir from last time you know old light yes okay new lights okay Vice President you know Alderperson Kettleson you're out moving on Alderman Samson that's a new one new light he has new light please first of all I'd like to just say I am strongly opposed to attaching a fee to well to clear water compliance it's a compliance program that is required for all home sellers as Miss Agnes Sorens came up she said we have an increasing number of foreclosures HUD homes, government owned homes, bank owned homes what have you collecting fees from those entities is very very difficult we face that on a daily basis in the real estate business right now myself being a realtor one of the reasons the main reason that this fee is being imposed is because other areas other municipalities are charging this fee but at least that's not what I'm aware of but the main reason that we were told was because there is apparently a high ratio of realtor real estate professionals or and or homeowners home sellers that once they set up an appointment with the city inspector to come and check out their clear water situation they don't show up so as retaliation in my sense is they're going to attach a $40 fee to the sale of every home for clear water compliance to help with the accountability of a small percentage of realtors that may be repeat offenders in this situation I believe there may be a better solution to this they also state that it may be easier for billing purposes to just attach it to all home sales just to make it easier but I believe there are easier solutions there are better solutions that if you have repeat offenders go after the offenders not on everybody else so I think this is just a penalty that's being imposed upon all home sellers and not just geared towards the folks who are the offenders in this case so I would hope that this at least gets voted no or at least some chance we might be able to put this on hold for further discussion with the Board of Realtors in thank you Alderman Boren thank you Mayor Ryan I would like to open the floor to Chad Pellechec so we can kind of get the city's view on this fee and I guess one of the questions I'd like to ask Chad is that if there is a closing if a realtor has a closing on a property and let's say it's a month down the road can there be some kind of a deadline set up that the clear water inspection has to be done 10 days or 2 weeks before the closing I just interested to see what Chad has to say thank you thank you Alderman Boren if I may ask first Chad the clear water inspection is that a state mandated inspection or is that the clear water program is a state mandated inspection under the city's discharge permit as part of the storm water so that came about as trying to meet discharge limits as part of our 216 discharge permit the clear water program came into compliance and the real issue we have is a lot of and it's not a select few there's a good handful more of realtors that continually make appointments as well as homeowners and then they don't follow through on those appointments we continuously hear oh I decided to go to great America or wherever it might be and they don't follow through and getting back to Alderman Boren's question I think what we're seeing is that it is an accountability thing and I don't know we have people calling us on Thursday afternoon and they're closing at 10 o'clock on Friday and that's continuous and we're trying to reschedule the inspector and change things to make that happen so I don't know how to put any kind of line or anything on there when they're continually calling us at last minute before closing to be able to close expecting us to come over there and if we don't they're calling the mayor, they're calling me that we're not working with them this is not something new the town of Alderman Kittleson brought up the town of Sheboygan the town of Wilson charges $35 the village of Kohler charges $50 they all have a written request and then you pay the fee and you do the appointment so that's what we're looking for we have a retirement of the plumbing inspector coming at the end of the year we'll be bringing on a new person after the first of the year and it's going to be a lot for that person to learn and it's not only clear water that this inspector is doing I brought up at public protection and safety that at two years ago we had two plumbing inspectors one plumbing inspector doing clear water half the time and plumbing for new construction and remodels the other half the time and to be honest with you there's no way of catching up with paperwork so the time is precious there are 15 minute increments throughout the day and that's what we're trying to do is hold people accountable at least that they're there, they're on time and they're not skipping the appointments this fee for service this would be included to the seller in the closing costs or the home buyer in the closing costs the seller in the closing costs the seller in the closing costs thanks Chad further questions for Chad Alderman Carlson thank you Mayor isn't another issue you have is the multiple repeat visits to households correct a lot of times we'll go there they'll do an inspection there'll be 5 issues, 4 issues that need to be dealt they'll call us back and say the issues are taken care of we'll go back there they did one of the issues some places they make 2-3 trips there before it's in full compliance so it's just a continually re-inspection and that's why we laid it out as upfront we'll give you a $40 initial fee if there's issues and we go back and you take care of all the issues you pay nothing and if there's continue issues it's another $40 fee of the $40 plus the initial thank you Chad Alderman Vice President Hammond thank you Mr. Mayor I guess a couple things nothing directed at Chad I think one of the things we need to be cognizant of is the taxpayer shouldn't be in the business of funding things that aren't necessarily for the common good and that's where I think things like this and hearing that you know realtors and individuals are scheduling appointments not showing up these plumbing inspectors and city employees have a lot of things they need to do and I think their time is valuable as well $40 is not an onerous fee for someone selling their house and I guess I would make one other comment and this is probably directed more Alderman Samson as a member and a realtor I have a real concern with you voting on this I'm just going to say that publicly because you do have an interest in this financial interest in this but the again I fully support this I think again it's not an onerous fee we're just the city is trying to cover its cost but also hold people accountable thank you Vice President Hammond, Alderman van Akron nothing I just wanted to hear from Chad Alderman Samson did you have anything else yes please thank you Mr. Mayor I disagree Alderman Vice President Hammond this inspection has to be done regardless of whether this $40 fee is attached to it or not regardless of what I say I have no financial stake in this whatsoever I make no money off of these $40 transactions that are attached to this again this is a certificate that has to be provided prior to a closing or at least at the closing or I cannot close whether this $40 fee is attached to it or not so I will take a vote on that otherwise but again attaching a $40 service fee to this is not going to solve the problem I'm not going to stand here today and say that there isn't an issue with realtors and individuals that do not show up for the appointments but again I think it needs to be addressed with those individuals maybe attach a $40 service fee to their issue of not being able to stand with their schedule and that'll be the city inspector but I don't believe you should attach it to the sale of every single home this is just attaching an additional fee and I ask where does it stop if you're not happy with one other industry what are you going to find to attach onto that industry whether it's real estate car sales, liquor sales whatever if you're not satisfied with the way they're doing things you're just going to attach another fee so I ask where is it going to stop if you're not satisfied with one you're not going to be satisfied with others so again I would just ask that you vote no thank you Alderman Samson now the way I look at this this is a fee for service in my opinion fees for service are the most fair form of taxation that exists if you use it you pay it if you don't you don't this is a fee for service if you're selling your home it needs the clear water inspection it's mandated by the state that we have to do it we have to provide the personnel to do it I don't think it's anything directed at any person or persons in the real estate business it's a fact of if we are paying inspectors to provide this service it costs money to pay those inspectors this is another basically an unfunded state mandate that comes down that we have to perform these inspections when we sell homes so in my opinion in nothing you know whether this is as this clear water inspection or anything else I mean the most fair form of taxation out there is a fee for service if you use it you pay for it if you don't you don't that's my own personal opinion any further discussion thank you Chad okay any further discussion if there is none we will take a roll call vote and aye vote would pass and no vote would not roll call please kath abstained aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye 1637 and 1638 to be referred reports of committee 1635 and 1636 lie over till the 28th. Ordinance is introduced 10 1639 by Alderpersons, Racler, Versi, Kittleson, Samson and Decker amending the 1975 municipal code so as to add a position to the table of organization in the Department of Public Works for the city of Sheboygan. Alderman Racler. Thank you Mr. Mayor. I'd make a motion to move to suspend the rules please. Second. We have a motion in a second to suspend the rules discussion on suspension of the rules. Is there anybody opposed to the rules being suspended or would require an explanation? If there is not the rules are suspended. Alderman Racler. Thank you Mr. Mayor. I'd move that the ordinance be put upon its passage. Second. We have a motion in a second to put the ordinance upon its passage under discussion. There is no discussion. Attorney McLean would like to chime in on this one. You were at the Salary Agreements Committee. I have the same concerns as I did then. In fact this is even worse as far as I'm concerned. You're creating a new position that's manager of public works that is in effect the department had position if you look at the position summary and the duties yet there will still be a director of public works position on the table of organization that has the exact same duties conflicts with the existing position of the director of public works. Some specific issues with the position summary it says serves as member of the plant commission and under our ordinances the position nor the director of public works is a member of the plant commission the city engineer by ordinance and by by our ordinance is on the plan commission and not in the director of public works or the manager of public works. I just see it. The other issue I have is that this in essence is going to be a department head position. You can call it a manager if you like but if you make it the head of the department responsible for the department it's an apartment head position and statutorily the mayor and the council have authority to appoint departments under this proposal the chief administrative officer as far as I'm aware would be making that appointment and I think you would be usurping your authority there in appointing department heads. So those are my concerns at the committee it seemed like the expedient thing to do to pass this I just and you can do what you want. I'm just letting you know that I see problems with it. I think you can do this in another manner where you do away with the director position the deputy director position and then make it a manager that is in charge of the department. I see that is working. Although again I still have the concern with I believe it's within your prerogative and the mayor's prerogative to make the appointment to that position and not the chief administrative officer and I think that again that's statutory and not not just my opinion or any ordinance. Make my comments. You do what you wish. I just want to let you know that that's I see it creating a problem. I haven't brought this up in the past when we've created manager positions for economic development for human resources manager because at that time there were still director positions at the top of the table organization for those departments and therefore in my view while they were vacant the director positions were the department head and the managers were not as as things have progressed it's become obvious that the intent is to do away with the director positions and create managers in place of that and I I think that's fine I think it's fine to do away with the term positions at the five-year terms make it at will appointments I think that that's fine reducing the salaries because they're not directors but they're managers that's that's perfectly perfectly appropriate in these economic times as well but just by creating a manager position and giving that manager all the duties of the director when you still got a director on the table organization granted that position won't be vacant but it's still there at least logically it it's inconsistent thank you Steve under further discussion Alderman first thank you Mr. Mayor so Steve basically would you suggest then waiting until January 1st when that director position is vacated let me position and create this would that be the kind of the fix and also put into place that it's still the way it is today with the mayor and the council and city administrator being part of that all at the same time sure I think you could do that sooner than January 1st you could make it effective January 1st but do it sooner than that but I like I say those are the biggest concerns I have is the authority to appoint department heads is yours and the mayor's I think I sent all of you an opinion by email last week on that there's five different options you have five different ways to do it right now it's a selection goes through civil service commission recommends to the mayor mayor points with council confirmation you don't have to have the civil service commission that's totally up to you but you need to have some some scenario of the mayor involvement or or the council involvement for some combination of the two in the appointment in the in the past we have either run these through the civil service commission this is an in-house promotion we're doing here obviously everybody knows who the candidate is for this position being Dave Bebel who has a lot of experience you know the way the statutes read right now that we have in the city and in the past we would we would if we were interviewing multiple candidates we would have a hiring team of staff of the city which would be several people and then one person will be chosen from that and it would be that in that candidate would be more or less chosen by committee but chosen by the mayor and then put to the council for approval now we have our chief administrative officer Jim Odeo in in in this mix with which this individual would report directly to Jim obviously any decision that would be made would be coming out of the mayor's office would be in agreement between the mayor and the chief administrative officer before it was appointed before it was given to council for approval so you know I believe in you know there needs to be certain checks and balances in government I don't you know I don't have a problem with a an agreement of the mayor and the chief administrative officer and then approval by the council on a position such as this Steve I know all of them born and I have been having some discussions over salaries for for mayors where you've got chief administrative officer and I looked at the the statutes today on city manager council forms of government that's that's a different form of government but under city manager form of government the city manager does statutorily appoint department heads and others but under a council mayor form of government the mayor and the council appoint the department heads the officers of the city I don't see any problem with the chief administrative officer providing recommendation to the mayor or a list of three or however you want to do it but I think that's how you need to do it this mayor and the council being involved under further discussion Alderman Samson thank you Mr. Mayor this is for attorney McLean so really we have we have an issue here with keeping of Korea we're trying to streamline the whole entire table of organizations so by creating this manager of public works in addition to the other spots that are open we have an issue with having all these spots at the top open right we have one or two positions open since this managers are basically going to fill positions of these spots but we have still one two or three different positions open on the table yeah my concern is logically you could do that and that's what you've got currently in some of the departments but you still got an apartment head but you the manager is not on your job description the head of the department in those circumstances here you're clearly making the manager the head of the department when you still have the director and the deputy director on the on the to set in the job description here that the manager reports to the director of public works I wouldn't have a problem with that then it's not a department head position if I may follow up please thank you thank you then and the procedure for eliminating those those spots and cleaning those up now would be just a what could you explain that procedure for working on those and who does it and then is it a lengthy process that that's something we can take care of immediately and clean this all up to to delete the public works director and the deputy public works director yes I do that by ordinance and in fact the at souring grievance there are ordinances that were I don't know if they were drafted or not but there was reference on the at least on the agenda for deleting those two positions that's just by ordinance I mean you've got to do it by ordinance delete those two positions create a new position entitled manager make the manager the head of the department it's not that complicated to do the the one there is one issue that arises in doing this though with in this particular situation is the residency requirement for department heads currently now that's another thing that you could address by ordinance you could create an exception for a newly created department head who is currently you know a current city employee that does not reside in the city but my view you know right now you've got an ordinance in place that says all department heads have to reside in the city period doesn't say you know there's any grandfather provision for we're not doing that and I know that creates some obstacle although I don't think it's insurmountable for the proposed candidate for the position thank you Steve I think the idea is to create this position obviously the table of organization has changed significantly over the last couple of years with creating managers positions with putting the the former IT director initially under finance now we have the our chief administrative officer that has everybody under him but the idea is then to combine some departments where we have finance HR IT under you know one one department so we're going to be making significant changes I believe that what we're doing now is we're filling some positions we're going to have to change the ordinances on the back end of it and basically clean up the table of organization I've still got one on my wall in my office matter of fact there's one right up there what we're doing right now in the city hardly looks like that chart like that octopus we're going with more of a straight line organization so you know to create this position I don't see a problem with it whether it's a manager or director this is the head of the public works department and you know and it's I don't think that it's all that complicated to tell you the truth Alderman born did you have something else thanks mayor night to get away from this public works manager but what was the process that we just used to hire the the manager of HR was that a was that did that come through the Civil Service Commission or how was that how was that appointment handled and do we still have the HR director on the TO but now we're going to have a manager so we got we got the same thing there right yes although it's my understanding that yes there's still a director of human resources on the table of organization and I believe the HR manager position was the interview process and the appointment was through the chief administrative officer and the HR consultant the one thing with human resources I think there's been discussion about making that a division of the finance department like IT were under that sort of scenario that would not be department head level position anyway the manager would be like a division level so same issues don't really arise there but yeah you still got the director of human resources on the table organization you've got the director of community development still on the table organization yeah if you recall when when we began with the the whole idea of changing some directors positions to managers positions you know we had the the the HR director with two people under them we had the IT director with four people under them and the idea was to take those positions and turn them into managers positions and to put them on you know put them which we did with IT IT was under finance and we got rid of that director's position and that's you know that was the idea of creating managers positions in the city Alderman Warren please continue if I could follow up also returning McLean brought up the concern that the the public works manager is going to serve on the city plan commission and the capital improvements commission who whose idea is that and another concern I have is that this idea by the chief administrative officer was never vetted with the public works committee at all the first I found out about this and I don't think even Alderman Heidemann as my vice chair knew that this was even going on until it was on the salary and grievance committee agenda and I thought that you know perhaps the courtesy should be extended to the committee chairman at least the vice chairman and then bring it before the committee for us to give our ideas on this we were totally bypassed in this as I said the first I knew about this was when it was on the salary and grievance agenda but getting back to my original question whose idea is it for the public works manager to serve out in the city plan commission and the capital improvements commission the director of public works I believe has always served on the city plan commission or capital improvements commission yes right but not on the city plan that's correct although I did look at the ordinances last week on that and it's still the ordinances call for the city engineer to be on the capital improvements commission I think that's something we need to clean up because I believe the director of public works has served on the capital improvements commission for a number of years but not on city plan not on city planning but now it's being proposed that he also be on city plan well that's in there I don't know why that's in there I guess that's my question who who proposed that since news that's news to us also on the public works committee this is this in the job description alderman born yes it is this would have come through number number three number three on typical duties I didn't even notice it until attorney McLean made mention of it tonight this would have come through salary and grievances in that way well I get the question I would I would just follow up is there any problem for the people that are on the city plan commission is there any issue or problem with the public works manager serving on the city plan commission is that create any issues Chad Chad would like to speak on this this isn't against the candidate for the position but the reason I think the city engineer had been on the plan commission is because a lot of the pro projects that come forward the new development are real directly related to stormwater drainage and erosion control and historically the city engineer had been the one that would approve those so he was aware of those as those issues came forward to make sure that there was no you know issues from that perspective now the they've could very well take that roll over but I think the reason it was as the city engineer has at one time when the departments were combined and engineering was part of planning you know it was kind of like this one stop shop but I you know I don't think at this stage it matters who it is but that's historically what has happened with new development projects related to stormwater and erosion control because in the end their department is the one that our division is the one that approves those plans so it could be one or other but not necessarily both probably correct who would you recommend they're both capable I mean Ryan has historically been the city plan member so as a city engineer then why change it yeah I don't know thank you all the men born thank you all the person cut thank you mayor Ryan just for an understanding if you're a department head and you're called the director of public works or the manager of public works there's still a requirement to live in the city of Sheboyin so by calling it a manager of public works then you no longer have to live in the city of Sheboyin not if it's the head of the department that's if it's a department head the ordinance is called for all the appointed department heads to live in the city but the manager of public works is a department head correct well under the proposed job description yes that was the concern I had that this job description conflicts with the current director of public works position which is still on the table organization so you can't you can't in theory have two people that are head of the same department you know don't get me wrong I'm not against having managers at all I just think in order to do that you need to clean up the table of organization and that's and that's where we that's where we stand right now as the hiring of employees and the reworking of the table of organization is working faster than the ordinance is catching up with it Alderman Samson thank you Mr. Mayor then what's the stop us then from just cleaning up the table of organization as we go if we're just gonna if we're gonna create a management position can we just clean it up as we create these positions so we don't have to deal with this lengthy discussion because we're gonna run into this again if I if I can explain one thing I mean part of the reason that this is accelerated today is because we had director Bill Bidner who was the director of public works for several years Bill is retiring at the end of the year on the 31st of the year with the transition that we're having in public works with the number of retirements that we have with the the department being in a state of flux more or less I you know we have 20 plus retirees in that department we're looking at what services may be contracted out hiring new employees promoting people redoing the table of organization within the Department of Public Works that we we decided that it would be better to have Dave people in charge because people were going to bill with questions people were going to Dave with questions if Bill is leaving at the end of the year it did not make any any sense that Bill is making these decisions when Dave is the guy that's going to be living with them so that's why this is is where it's at today in order to create this position for Dave that Dave is clearly in charge of the department and can it can move this department into the future if that explains you know we can we can clean up the table of organization and the ordinances after the fact with deleting the other positions and with redoing the table of organization Vice President Hammond please thank you Mr. Mayor I'm not a big fan of moving things back to committee and I understand what you were just saying I think though as Deputy Director he's got at least some clout there as as a Director Bittner's on his way out I think with the concerns and some of the things that are brought up again I'm not a big fan of moving things back to committee but maybe that's where it needs to go have some of these conversations get those things cleaned up and bring one document back on what would be December 5th or something like that and get it done then just my thoughts maybe it needs to go back to committee that's probably not a bad idea and I think at the same time we should refer it to public works and to salary grievances once again is that a motion I'll second it if it's a motion yeah you motioned Alderman Warren seconded refer this to public works and to salary agreement all in favor of reef Dave would you like to speak this is the deputy director slash director slash manager of public works Dave people thanks I did the one thing I just want to clear up is whatever you decide the residency issue does not affect me my wife and I were fully prepared if whenever this would happen that if we did have to move we would move so I don't want that to come out that this is being created that I don't have to move into the city we that was fully I guess our intent if I ever got the promotion someday in my career that that was a distinct possibility so I just want to let that everyone know that it's not the case thank you Dave okay we have a motion in a second to refer back to committees all in favor say aye opposed motion carries moving on 40 okay 1640 lies over 1641 by Alderperson Kittleson amending the municipal code so as to create section 2646 relating to the registration of vacant buildings oh I'm sorry that will be referred as a matter of fact 41 through 44 will be referred matters laid over 11 1560 RO number 249 1112 by the city clerk submitting as a matter of information the estimated cost for a potential make or potential recall primie and primary and or recall election of the mayor thank you mr. Mayor I move to accept and file second a motion and a second to accept and file under discussion there's no discussion all in favor say aye opposed motion carries 1518 lies over to November 28th 1519 our own number 251 1112 by the city plan commission amending the city's zoning map to change the use district classification of property located at 1216 Union Avenue from NR neighborhood residential to NC neighborhood commercial classification city planning Alderman Samson thank you mr. Mayor I move that the RO be accepted and placed on fire and file and the ordinance be put upon its passage we have a motion do we have a second second we have a motion and a second under discussion we have Alderman Boren thank you mayor and after listening to the concerns of the two people that spoke tonight I'm wondering if the planning commission had any discussions and changing that zoning is there any immediate plans for that because of the change in zoning or is it just being done for future considerations the planning commission discuss this what the plan is this is a vacant home sitting next to the property where this convenience store gas station is located their plan is to demolish the home and to expand this into a another entry exit if I'm not mistaken Alderman Samson so we didn't we didn't see any issues with it on city planning right now it is a vacant property Chad do you have something on this what the mayor just stated is absolutely correct it is a vacant property what they're looking at doing in the future is raising the property and using it as a turn lane for semis then delivery trucks that come into the parking lot because currently they have to back off of Union Avenue and out into the street to try to maneuver and make it around there and I guess what I wanted to do is follow up on the other person that spoke at public forum the public hearing in regards to the trash issues that's definitely something that can be taken care of as part of the conditional use permit once this rezone is approved or denied but if it was approved by this body they'll have to go through the conditional use process through the planning commission and that can be a condition of the requirement allowing them to proceed is to deal with the garbage issues and the dumpster and kind of you know force them that way to take care of that as for the first gentleman that spoke in regards to the house it has been vacant for I believe five years and has been in disrepair so you know there there hasn't been anybody living there and it's really to make the maneuvering of traffic off of Union for trucks coming into this spot a little bit easier so there's a way of taking care of some of the concerns of the neighbors in the public as part of the conditional use process thank you Chad for Alderman Samson any further questions if there are no further questions roll call please Kittleson I Manichuk I Racler I Samson I Van Akron I Vander wheel I versey no belt no foreign I Carlson I Haman I Hammond I Titan man and caught I 12 eyes to nose motion carries other matters authorized by law 1645 an arrow by the city clerk granting various licenses vice president thank you mr. mayor move to accept and file and approve licenses second motion in a second to approve under discussion there is no discussion roll call please Manichuk I Racler I Samson I Van Akron I Vander wheel I versey abstain belt I Warren I Carlson I Haman I Hammond I Titan man I cut and Kittleson I 13 eyes one abstention motion carries 1646 to be referred other matters authorized by law attorney McLean 1647 is an arrow by the city clerk submitting various license that would be referred to law and licensing 1648 is an arrow by the city clerk submitting communication from all the person born being a survey of mayor salaries from various municipalities and there's an updated version for the document it's just referred to Committee of the Whole that is all do we have a motion to adjourn we will reconvene at five minutes to nine for the Committee of the Whole me the Committee of the Whole meaning or we will convene period motion to adjourn do we have a second all in favor say aye opposed