 this time. I'm doing something wrong. So I wanted to ask you about hedonism. You know, one of the key points in in objectivism is that happiness is the ultimate purpose. And you're, I think, the only public intellectual I know of who's two states very affirmatively that pleasure is good. And we know that that is counter to altruism, that statement. And I've been thinking, you know, it seems like if you look around, there's the two ways people approach pleasure is from an altruistic standpoint with people denying themselves like businessmen denying themselves pleasure from their achievements. And then the other side is people, you know, kind of a thrill seeking hedonistic approach to pleasure. And I wonder if those two things are, you know, two sides of the same coin. How do you think that morality is creating or impact kind of a hedonistic mentality? Well, because nobody wants to be an altruist or almost nobody wants to be an altruist. And if you grow up and you don't want to be an altruist, and yet you also don't want to cause suffering on other people. You're not a monster. You don't want to see destruction. So you're not a nihilist. And, you know, and you don't want to cause other people pain. Then the kind of out for the kind of out for you is I mean, the two outs and people, I think the better people become one of two things. I think I think one is better than the other. But but two outs are pragmatism, which almost every businessman is, because that's the out for morality. They become pragmatists. And then they, and then they feel a little guilty because they know they should be altruists. And the second, which inflicts, I think, primarily young people is hedonism. It's it's devoting yourself to pleasure for pleasure's sake, without sacrificing other people to you. But without sacrificing yourself to other people, but sacrificing yourself to yourself in a sense, that is sacrificing your future to your present. But it is, you know, the culture does in action, reject altruism. And it has to but you need morality, you need guidance, you need something. So the only alternative they have is pragmatism, which says, I'll just get by, I'll do what works, and I won't I won't concern myself too much with ethics just at the margin. But it but not too much. Or, you know, this hedonism, and of course, the real nasty people, the people who grew up wanting to break things and wanting to knock knock knock stuff down become denialists. But those are alternatives. They're all non altruistic alternatives. But they're all in a sense, the outcome of altruism. They're all what altruism leads to as, you know, so you could argue that the the hedonism of the Romans, right, let's say the Roman aristocrats was a consequence of not having them all code, not knowing what to do. So if pleasure is good, let's go all in on pleasure and tell with a long term, let's just embrace pleasure right now. And let's live by that. And that's, that's what's so sad. And that's why it's so important to get people when they're young before they make some of these decisions, which sometimes are irreversible. Yeah, it seems like it's definitely a very much afflicts young people. And because you discover that hedonism does not lead to pleasure does not lead to success does not lead. And then I think they become either religious fanatics, or they become pragmatists, right, so they either become pure real altruists, or some form of religiosity, or they become pragmatists, very few people stay hedonists for the for their entire life. Some do, I mean, you can find people who are, you know, never never never left with stock, right. But that's a minority. Yeah, there's very few people who get to the point because I think you need objectivist morality for it to tie pleasure to long terms. That's right. And that's very difficult. So people wing it, they figure out something, but to actually have guidance, you need a philosophy and objectivism is the only philosophy that does it. Great. Thanks, Andrew. What we need today, what I called a new intellectual would be any man or woman who is willing to think, meaning any man or woman who knows that man's life must be guided by reason, by the intellect, not by feelings, wishes, women's or mystic revelations. Any man or woman who values his life and who does not want to give in to today's cult of the stare, cynicism and impotence, and does not intend to give up the world to the dark ages and to the role of the collectivist. All right, before we go on, reminder, please like the show. We've got 163 live listeners right now. 30 likes. That should be at least 100. I think at least 100 of you actually like the show. Maybe they're like 60 of the Matthews out there who hate it. But at least the people who like it, you know, I want to see, I want to see a thumbs up. 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