 4 a.m. April the 2nd 1982 Argentine Navy cameraman film their invasion of the Fulcrum Valley Frogmen landed first from a submarine followed later by the main assault force The situation as you might hear is that the radio station has now been taken over If you take the gun out of my back, I'm going to transmit it here, but I'm not speaking with a gun in my back By 7 a.m. After fierce fighting government house was completely surrounded There were rowdy scenes in Harlem swiftly followed by resignations the government turned to the armed forces Brian, how are you royal? Ah, fine. Thank you Chris. You keep me well Yes Yes overworked and underpaid is is that the expression? But is but always uh Always in paradise and grateful for what I've got And none more so than today because I get to chat to one of my wonderful brothers on the podcast that That I created to do just such a thing. So welcome mate. It's it's great to see you Yes smashing. Thanks for the invitation. Yes so Um, I hold it. I won't say too much details, but I hold an event every year and we We don't get hold of a Royal Marines bandsman because I found out it's much easier to go to the cadets So the the band cadets And they send us well, I'll say they send us Tim's a Tim's a a friend of a good friend of mine now So tim comes along and he plays the last post for us and they're all immaculate in their in their blues and it's the most Um Emotional part of the day is what I'm trying to say It's probably the most important part of the day when everyone Just shuts up for a couple of minutes and we um We listen to the last post and then we We have a minute silent and remember our oppos that are are no longer here and uh You did this job for a living Brian Yeah, yeah, I was in the the Romary band service for 17 years so I didn't play the bugle. I did I did want to join as a bugler But when I got to deal for the audition one of the things you have to do is see the dentist And they took one look at these and said there's no way you're going to play a blowing instrument So instead of being a bugler Do you want to be a percussionist which still means playing drums? But I didn't have a bugle to clean so that kind of suited me and set me off on a slightly different route within the band service. Yeah it's funny, um I think our brothers and sisters in the army or make not so much sisters if I was honest, but They all say chris you in the rural marines. What instrument did you play? Right? And they say it is if that's some sort of um Some sort of dig And my response is like I wasn't smart enough to play an instrument. I was a thick boot neck I love to have been smart enough to play an instrument. Do you think I would have joined the core? You know, do you think I would have joined joined as a as a grunt? Um, so massive credit to you and I I struggled brian to teach myself guitar later on in life um, learn a bit of keyboard just I don't know. I had a goal that I've learned guitar as long as I could play one song and sing it in public That would be my job done and I did that funny enough in um In krakow of all of all of all places. I won't bore people with the story So yes, I'm I'm full of respect for anyone that plays an instrument. I'm full of respect for the rural marines band Not just because they're As the deal bombing shows they're in the thick of it just as much as as we were but also During active service so during combat again, you guys have to go in as as And i'm sure you're gonna, you know, feel free to correct me on this one Either now or when we get to it, but as stretcher bearers first aiders um, so a crucial crucial cog in the wheel But let's go back to These notes you very kindly sent me your dad was in four two commando Yeah, he was uh in four two commando. He was killed at sue is unfortunately, you know three months before I was born so I never knew him and Of course, this has been quite traumatic for my mother So when I was born, I was named after him And then spent my childhood with a kind of bent towards the rural marines Uh, but also playing drums uh, so I used to go to sternose barracks and Have a go on the drums down there and the cadets and uh, eventually after quite a Not the best of childhoods with a A drunken stepfather At 15 and a half I went to the careers office and asked to join the rural marines and I guess the uh recruiting sergeant had a Um had a quota to fill and he said oh you played the drums then. Why don't you think about the band? So, uh, yeah, as I said, they sent me to deal with the view to being a bugler And I ended up being a percussionist, which means you get to play all sorts of banging instruments But um, no bugle So and uh, it did me well for 17 years. Yeah, I really enjoyed my time in the band service um some great drafts mostly in the Plymouth area and Ended up at deal as a sergeant as the percussion instructor instructor teaching drafts Yes, and for our friends at home. So we should point out rural marines band The best military band in the world and please don't argue with me because I'm I'm just telling you the truth You're preaching to the convert it across here Um Just absolutely Brilliant, can we say on ceremonial occasions? So the one that that When they first come into your life Is when you pass out of training and the band Rock up in all their splendor tree and um they seem to have a Ponshawn if that's the right word or a penchant for exotic animals because there's a few of them draped in Tigers and zebras and stuff but uh It's pretty magnificent. You've got all your family there. They've come for that, you know to see their little boy grow up Um, you've smashed out that green berry and and and that's no no mean feat in itself and when you march on to that parade square and Um, brian's going to correct me on all the terminology here, but I don't know if it's the drum major goes And that's all you hear for a split second and then the band smash into thunderbirds And the next thing your parents see is you marching around the corner of the jill's drill shed in all your in your in your blues Which is another thing the rural marines do uh Do for the best it's um It's incredible and then of course you've got um Events like the royal tournament, which I believe that's no no more now That's finished. Yeah, that's and um and obviously bidding people off to war as as they did in the um Falklands conflict when the ships were pulling away from From the docks in in ports mirth and also south hampton And also should give a massive shout out here to the to the paris band um because I I've included some of their footage in one of my videos also um Also world class so brian have I said enough Said too much some of it right some of it wrong um, let's talk about the uh The animal skins It the royal marines uh the bass drummer And the tenor drummers of which I was one where tiger and leopard skins Uh, they used to be uh originals And in fact one of the ones I wore was shot by um lord baton in the 1930s But now as they've uh deteriorated over the years they are now used to set it Go they don't go uh killing animals for that. There were no zebras. Let me get that clear christ No zebra skins were harmed or used in the making Of the the robber you don't know how to spoil a good dick mate come on and the um The green address the issue of the green berry you mentioned that when I was in in the robberines from 73 to 91 We wore green berries Because at the time green berries were issued to all ranks who completed their their junior training and that included the bansets So we did military training, but we never did the commando the proper commando course down at lips Uh in modern times, I think this is right Um now the the the bansets have gone back to wearing blueberries because the royal marines when you see the nods What they go through at ctc to earn their green berry It's only right and it's been recognized since about 96 That they really aren't that and so they just dished them out willy nilly to the people who haven't done the course Was deemed wrong So from from about 96 onwards the band service had reverted to wearing Blueberries like the second world war marines used to on ships So just to cut the corrections there no zebras plenty of leopards cut the tigers And green lids for the period I was in But not since Yes, and of course that's That's a classic situation in life where there's always going to be two different arguments and and neither is right As far as as far as I was concerned as a commando You guys thoroughly deserved a green berry for your for your foot for what you'd achieved And yet the guys stood next to me all say no they don't and i'm not going to argue with him and What's the point? It's There's sometimes there's there's not always one one way to view things are there, but um Yes, it's uh It's just a very proud thing isn't it in the marines that we've got the raw marines band. It's it's it's just the way that it is The marine band service is the quick face really of the of the core and we do we do share the same cat badge. So um, there is very much Respect both ways I think when I joined at deal And then junior marines also joined at deal. This is 1973 and in one longer combination block you had the uh junior marines at one end in sea wing and The marines and service at the other in m wing and there was very much a them and us attitude because we're being beasted we did our basic military training but we're being beasted every day become raw marines And by by week four they saw us junior musicians Marching off with our instrument cases to practice music in the afternoons at the school of music at east barracks So I think for marines of a certain era who joined at deal around that time There was very much a them and us they're proud to have the band there and when when you hear the band play You're that first time on parade and you hairs go up on the back of your neck and you and you grow two inches But I think for for that part There's a separation for me what brought it all back together was after the falcons when Those young marines who are now corporals and sergeants saw what the band service could do in a military environment and That brought everyone back together from so post falcons from personal experience We were very much all as one again and everywhere you went It was alo bandy. Let's get you a beer. I remember you on the camber or Great job you did there So, yeah, I think there was a diversion and probably rightly so because of circumstances And then all came back together when the full value of the band service the music and the military was drawn together and during the falcons So what sort of military training did did you get? So initially it's It's the it's the marching stuff on the parade ground. You don't touch instruments for about four weeks And you get handled weapons down at king's it was kings down down here at deal um And in fact, but during during my training, um, I won something called the houghton cup which was uh, the junior marines and junior musicians had a shootoff and I won it and I'm I'd rather embarrass to say this but what happened was normally when you're on a ranger, you know As as a as a junior you have a stoppage you put your hand up and some And harry corporal comes along and fixes the stoppage But during the competition, I had this stoppage put my hand up and he just said fucking fix it royal So I had to change the magazine on this a lot clear the stoppage and then I had 20 seconds to finish firing 20 rounds So I just bladdered them off and somehow I've got something right Be all these young juniors. I've got my name on a trophy. So Bit of a cheat or a good firing position. I don't know what you say, but um, so all those junior marines in uh, who were in april 73 Sorry, I took your trophy get over it the um If you do a bit of uh Night now vexing get lost on dartmore and uh, um In the woods here and so basically five weeks of military training to get you off to speed And then when you get to a band eventually you do one or two weeks here Which depending on which band you're in decides what role, uh, what trend you would get it would always involve um Some shooting and stuff But again when I was in in 73, um in in the 80s The the perceived threat was the russian hordes cross German planes And so we were notionally attached to medical squadron and our job then was to actually Decontaminate bodies from nuclear or mbcd contaminants with fullers earth Uh, so the doctors could operate on them So that was the the the core of our military training once Once in the 80s and early 90s when that was the perception Of course fullers earth is that magic powder that um where you can treat anything with and uh But that was our job to give everyone a good dosing of fullers earth so that the doctors In the med squadron could could deal with them. Got you and your first posting brian Yeah, a couple of weeks at ctc kicking my heels around whilst uh my my first posting was um hmsr pro Uh, and it wasn't the one of the falcons era. This is the uh, the one of the sailor tv program I'm in that somewhere if you look Um with proper uh phantoms buccaneers gannets And I joined her in january of 76 Uh, and I was aged 19 and we went to america for six months during their bicentennial And six months later. I was 32 years old it seemed you could not Do a thing wrong. There was nothing you couldn't go ashore uniform and pay for anything And it was just a golden time to be in the states our aircraft carrier being only uh, we were the only there was 20 of us in the in the band on our crawl uh, 2700 matlose and uh 20 in the band so, uh How long did you spend on ship? What how long was that draft? 18 months for me and then I was replaced by a Plymouth rating called rasher bacon And uh, he's he was a proper janitor. He said right brine. He says i'm going on rock You're staying in guzz He says and you'll be playing with my brother. He's a guitarist So not only did we stop drafts. I got a lot of uh, city gigs around Plymouth area on the back of it as well Yeah, so we've shared a similar experience brine because I was on on the sister ship of the newer arc royal So I was on invincible and um I think the first place we sailed was germany, but then after that we sailed to Norfolk, virginia, which i'm guessing is where you you you guys rocked up One of the places, yeah, how how big are their aircraft carriers? well The arc royal I was on was 57 000 times and it felt huge And but compared to the Nimitz where there's a couple of pictures of us next to the Nimitz they're probably twice the size of ours and uh during during while we were operating out of north of virginia They did cross decking with the americans because they had similar planes at the time phantoms And of course our pilots Are used to landing on a postage stamp and suddenly they've got an envelope And the other way round the yanks trying to land on the relatively small arc royal So the goofing deck as it was called was full of people watching the yanks trying to get down onto our carrier mostly looked at it, but uh, yeah, it must have been Half a grand sixpence time for most of them Are we talking landing on the carrier or cross decking as in um as in the zipline? No landing taking their aircraft off the giant Nimitz And trying to get them down on to arc royal and vice versa They'd be just as crap as that as they are when they rock up here and they and they've never seen a country lane before No, no offense to our american brothers and sisters, but Um, if you see the roads that we grow up driving down you They're not they're not the super highways that you you um You hear in the bloody rocky theme tracks sung about So, um, yeah, we did um We did cross decking of the the um the winch line thingy me bob all the all the matlow's Could you put below please what it's actually called? It's got there's there's a name for it. It's called the Ocean's chair, isn't it? Ocean's seat. There you go Okay, so all the matlow's put another name So we sent um We sent pin god rest his soul across to the to a dutch vessel and um It's quite funny really He went across obviously in true uh true boot net uniform dressed in stockings and suspenders and they sent this gorgeous girl back because they Like us the dutch navy had started to take women on board and um The funny thing was The dutch navy wanted they want They wanted their rating back, which is quite understandable We didn't want pin egg to come back We wanted her to stay Have you like a first swap? Yeah Oh, pinny for anyone watching that remember remembers steve Yeah, absolutely cracking guy and uh Got run out fell off a motorbike in london got run over by a truck and uh God that was a funeral that I don't think Anybody could just ever forget. It's awful. Absolutely awful So Yes, so how how was um, what was your favorite? Other than the states did you have another favorite? Um pulling into shore or docking? Well, when we did that trip, um the first um, yeah, we all up and down the coast. I fought lauderdale um Virginia I'm trying to go to caribbean island. We went to just off the coast But it was just a golden you couldn't do a thing wrong And uh a friend of mine who shall remain nameless. He's coming to deal next week actually for a pizzer but um, he he met this woman and he came in Um, he came into the band mess and he said, you know fellas I met this girl and she she's runs a hotel. We're all invited down there It's a great boy. I went down there for uh freebies and turns out it was a gay hotel She was the only woman it's a complete gay hotel and suddenly you've got 80 young fresh raised raw marines um Descend so we went everywhere little groups, but boy did they look after us The ship moves on and gilly says um, well, you know, I'm looking forward to the next port and as we dock She's waiting for him. She's driven up the coast from Virginia to uh fought lauderdale to meet him He couldn't get rid of this woman So then everywhere we went and her husband, uh, sorry not husband Her father was something to do with the mafia Gilly was looking over his shoulder for officer his name Gilly was looking over his shoulder for uh for months after that when he was trying to avoid woman everywhere we went Yeah, that was uh, that was a that was such a good trip for a young for young everyone on the boat and young bansman Um Yes, we I just tell you my little dick. I'm just adjusting the picture here Brian because you're wobbling your table a bit. Um it's We're going to get stuff thrown at us. Maybe that's a bit better if I do that um It's okay. It's this Zoom issues that the modern thing that people have to worry about that Isn't as bad as a bububonic play Um, so what was I going to say? Yes. So when we went to America one of the One of the sailors came into our mess that I think it was a chief petty officer that we had we had our you know, we had our I'll say favorites, but Well, you just did you had your favorite Matlos and and they'd come up to your mess and share a beer or coffee or whatever And uh, this chief was tennis one time. They pulled into north foot And Did you have the thing where the family's come to the dock side to try to adopt a sailor or or a marine for the For the time that you're there Yeah, yeah, we were off when after a weekend with a young couple that took us to tally To go horse riding and stuff. Yeah Yeah, americans being the incredibly generous people that they are um Will turn up and they'll take you and they'll host you for however long you want really But this family turned up. So it was a parents and a daughter And the daughter was you know, let's say young young woman and The chief almost immediately started to get it on with her And the family, you know, the parents were sort of perfectly okay with it and everything so That night they were Sharing a room or he was sleeping in in her bed. Let's say And he said in the middle of the night when you know when they were doing a business He said he he thought he could hear some noises in the dark Right, so he just ignored that and he and he carried on but no he's like no there's deaf There's somebody's in the room Someone's in the so he turned and he put the light on and her parents were kneeling at the end of the bed and this is why civilians very often just don't believe a word that comes out your mouth when you're a service person because stories like this to us are just Second nature aren't they it's just stuff that happens. I can understand now to someone who hasn't been in the military would think Oh, it's a it's a load of nonsense. But yeah No, we have some good tales to tell I'm just thinking back to your story though. Perhaps they were religious. They were praying or something Yes, I'm not I'm not going to go there because I'll probably upset somebody so Yeah, so can we talk about I'm just looking at the your notes brian so Um bum bum bum Okay. Yeah, you do mention the deal bombing at the end. So how did you hear of the folklans? Um, Easter leave um I was in stonehouse band in Plymouth at the time great band to be in commanding forces band we'd all just been sent on Easter leave and um we um Yeah, I was I was looking into a point just across from Plymouth I'm thinking about taking the dog for a walk and the phone rang and it was um our band secretary said Brian be back in the band room tomorrow Oh 700 must be dick. I'm on Easter leave and dick you'd like to talk about everything In his past said no be here at 0700 Put the news on and seen some Argentine Scrap merchants has been somewhere they shouldn't have been and then that the Argentines that invaded the islands So um early next morning. I'm in stonehouse barracks in the band. There's a big hubbub going on And we kind of figured that we'd be guarding stonehouse barracks Well, all the green lead commandos are pretty tough. The brothers would be going off to sort out the Argentines So we were cheering that over and then the boss come out and stood on the podium where he'd normally conduct and said Well, we're going we're going to the folklans And even though many of us still didn't know where they were to be honest. Was it scotland? Was it wales? Was it the out of hebrides? So, um on paper as I said, we were part of medical squadron for the uh the fullers earth brigade And they were obviously hearing up to go to a war And they were 40 people short on paper and those that 40 people was the band So the colonel in charge of the uh in charge. I think was the district regiment they came under Said well take the band. They'll do a good job. They did they did a good job when the during the fireman strike They done a good job x y z They'll be useful people to have Don't need to bring in instruments. Don't issue them personal weapons. Just get them to south hampton For whatever day it was And that was it. We were under orders to to move out the next day And it was our boss, uh, captain john way. Oh, he said I think we'd better take our instruments We're going on a cruise ship, you know keep everyone saying especially us people who like to play music So, uh, we lifted and shifted and I think two days later. We were at south hampton boarding uh the camera That's a bit of a dodgy wicket mate if you ask me because If that cruise ship sinks You do know you do know who doesn't get off, don't you? Well, we yeah, you end up on deck playing whatever the other buggy gets off, but uh So, yeah, it's quite something to turn up Uh at south hampton and look up at this great huge white whale as it was called and uh to go to war of a cruise ship So that's how we that's how me for me the war started Um call on east to leave Some of the barracks shocking news get your ass to south hampton gosh How did it feel going to war without a weapon? Well, not not so strange for us because as I say, um, we spend most of our time with our instruments in our hands and Once once the ship had sailed I wrote we sailed on the on the camber that night that evening And on the dock with the parachute regiment band playing you mentioned them earlier And uh, we thought it quite ironic that the Marines thought it worthy to take their band with them, but the parrots uh Didn't take their bands There was a bit of uh a bit of a bit of uh General piss-taking the take on that But yeah, we we don't have personal weapons Never never had been issued once so it wasn't so strange As we progressed south and we started doing training with the medical squadron We did actually have to have some weapon training off the back of the ship And I can imagine the pw's the platoon weapons people were taking it very seriously And there's a long tradition in the band service that when you do your and your weapons testing And come friday afternoon you want to get off as quickly as possible So you fire as few of weapons as possible when then you get to share cleaning of them But these pw's were getting everybody lined up and adjusting the sights in that time on a fashion Individually then horrified that we were just passing the weapon over to the next person So they were pulling the pulling the hair out. So yes, no weapons But luckily we did take our instruments which proved to be really the right decision Okay, I'm just um I'm going to ask you a next question while you're doing that and just go to edit one of your photos Because I think it's in the wrong format to show on our on our screen here So Yes, just What was it? What was it like setting sail then? What's that feeling like my gosh we're We joined the band. We probably didn't ever think we'd go to war because that's not really our forte There was always that possibility because in times of war the band Do you act in that capacity of the first aid? um And lo and behold your you are actually going to war. How was that brime? Yeah, it was a it was a funny feeling harking back to the fact that like my dad had been killed In a small war at suiz and I had his name and there was another brine john short now setting off um On another small war But it had been truth at the time We never thought it was going to become a shooting war at that point We thought the american diplomatic efforts the arches would see sense And it would just be a bit of a jolly and in fact, I wasn't due to go I was due to go to limestone on a junior command corps. So i've been promoted to lance corporal and I had to go and see the bosses The band are going on this jolly as it was. I want to go. I don't want to go to ctc and this is the excitement So, yeah, I was I was an additional member and sent With the band instead of going to ctc. I figured the course would be cancelled anyway, which in truth it was So it was a strange feeling setting off Um to go south with all these roughly tafty marines in paris And what we thought would be something of a jolly we'd be back in three months With a suntan and a medal and a couple of good deeds turns out wasn't quite true Yeah, was there a At which point then because you told me a pertinent story earlier, which at which point did it all become very real? So the journey south uh was was quite um Relaxed lots of training lots of running around the deck. We went to free town in in Syria alone to refuel Um, then we went to ascension island and we were there for I think 14 or 15 days Canberra sailed every night to um avoid the perceived submarine threat that the that they might have been from the argentines And it was about that time near the end of that that um the belgrano was sunk by one of our submarines And that's when that's when it got quite real But as a young man um They were they they were the enemy. So there was that gun hoe a well done well done the navy Because it was just a few days later Uh ship got really real when um, they they hit the sheffield with an exocet And so it was it was um one all sounds a bit crass, but we knew then we were in a proper shooting war And things were likely you're going to get worse And so we then the whole task force set off from ascension island heading south In uh to what we now know became a proper war, especially for the people of shore my gosh, and You you were saying you actually knew one of the your first casualty was somebody that you knew Yeah sergeant andy evans when we were doing our medical training each year he was a A raw marine helicopter pilot he flew um gazelle helicopters and during one of our military training stints with um, we were loading pressing loading casualties onto his gazelle helicopter at the long room at stonehouse And being a bit of a helicopter spotter, you know I was asking all the all the stupid questions that people ask and he realized I was interested So during lunch he took me for a couple of flights around plinth sound And uh answered all those questions. Let me ever go on the sticks Um, then we after the landings. I think it was landings plus one or maybe actually might have been on the actual day Is helicopter and another gazelle we're escorting a seeking across um Headland and both the raw marine gazelle helicopters were shot down And uh the first casualty that was brought on board was was andy evans. He was the first body We had to look after that was landed Onto onto cambra and uh what really hit me about that was um The first helicopter the pilot had been shot and they crashed and they were both killed Andy evans and his uh co-pilot had managed to land in the water And they were swimming ashore when they were shot in the water by the argentines So there was no need for them to die really And andy was mortally wounded his his colleague got into the shore And they were picked up by surgeon commander rick jolly and helicopter And unfortunately though they were um by the by the time uh helicopter got to um cambra and asked uh andy evans had died And uh the his cream and was uninjured, but obviously emotionally badly scarred And uh but so yeah the first the first the first casualty was someone i i knew Geez i'll tell you what only takes one incident like that to just Really make you hate your enemy isn't it and i'm i'm not folks i'm not calling out a judgment here i'm just saying shooting people dead in the water It's like as bad as shooting paratroops shoot this is it well it's maybe that's a different thing again, but because we actually sent one of our um rigid raiders skippers out to rescue One of their pilots didn't we Yeah, yeah that we well looked after them and the the irony is though the pilot and the the skipper are still friends to this day It did really change the whole attitude my attitude and a difference when i was guarding some of their prisoners later To to them but we went from D-Day in st. Carlos, which was a beautiful day and some air raids The band were full on on camera the band were um We were part of medical squadron We were given the task of getting the casualties from the newly made helicopter decks on this cruise ship Down a couple of decks to the operating theaters. That was our our role So the band invented a ramp system and we had teams of People ready to unload the stretchers put them on this ramp and get them down to the operating theater Which until Andy Evans and the other two dead pilots were brought on board um, had all been just in practice and suddenly within within Within minutes of the early morning when a chopper comes on board Almost unannounced Rick Jolly the cap is waving us forward and there are these um These these people we know had to be transported Was that How was that What age are you at this this time Brian? I'm about 26 25 26 Okay, so you've got Shall we say slightly more of a head on head on your shoulders as possibly a an 18 year old would have done down there um, but but still immensely shocking none none none the less Yeah, I've got no operational so we used to go to northern Ireland, but only to visit the troops and play for them um I had no operational experience other than this is my first time in a shooting war and and We'd had a lot of training On the way down about the medical but the first time it happens It's a shock when you first third person and it's more of a shock if it's someone you know and and respected in light so, um, yeah, it really did hit me for six and uh made a difference to how I conducted myself there's a I suppose I can I was very much we were all very much positions and throughout That campaign that war I called it a war. Um, we became more military men to the point where much during the war we took some welsh and scott's guards We picked them up from south georgia after queen Mary as queen elizabeth too and camber took them to san carlos They were part of fibergate And en route taking some of them to to the heli deck. There was a I'm taking out a section And they were they were rattling and I made them jump up and down I'm a lance corporal bandsman and I made them jump up and down and gave them a bollocking because they had coins in their Mestins That's how much for a change I had made from being a bandit To a marine with a military head on in those few weeks Uh, you and their corporal was horrified that that uh an infantry corporal was horrified that a lance corporal bandsman Was giving them a bollocking, but that was the the whole sea change over the course of over those few months Yes, of course you kind of You don't know when you'll put in that sort of theater who's going to flourish and And um excel and and who's going to shrivel and and under perform do you? No, um On the other side of the coin What I would say I I very much knew in my own mind at that time that we were going to win this war Not because what I or the band were doing But when you saw the professionalism and the fitness of the marines and the parrots You were training every day on camera And and we knew what they go through at limestone I'd no doubt that whoever they were going up against these boys were going to commit acts of gross violence against them and they were going to win and I have to say the um The parrots were whereas as professional in their training and their fitness uh at that time For instance off fishing islands Around camber deck was a quarter mile and everyone used the deck for training But in particular the teams of 14 42 commando say doing two miles with their base plates and their Their tubes the next day the parrots more team with three miles And so on and so on every day this unofficial competition to the point where I think someone had to stop them But when you see the fitness and the commitment The parrots were certainly up for the fight And uh, and certainly the so with the marines. So I knew whoever they were going up against I didn't Again, there is a bit of cat badge rivalry, but And we knew we were sending the best flanks to shore to do the job Yes, um I'm just looking at your notes. I'm trying not to get ahead of ourselves brine. So um We've covered covered a few of these topics Bum bum ban so what What was d-day in san carlos? Like in fact, do you want to explain what that is to our friends at home? A d-day for us as the day, uh, we we landed back on the islands to kick the Argentines off and uh Canberra was one of the first ships in and we went in um at night at about one in the morning About four or five ships. I think it's fearless h.m.s. Plymouth um canberra and slipped into um Uh, uh A bay a bit like Plymouth. It's a giant version of Plymouth sand A giant natural harbour called san carlos water and we went in at night Um dark and ship Quiet routine and the all these ships managed to get in and and drop anchor And me and another musician graham smith We wanted to see what all the fuss was about. So we went through the blackout screens and uh went on to the open deck and there was a beautiful crystal eye the outline of the islands And we thought well that that's what it's about So there's a loud crash and a flash And explosions start going off and graham and I run for cover and we fight back through the door inside the safety of the ship Before captain burn or the Royal Navy captain in charge of camp Said in his public school accent. Don't worry. That's our ships By guarding the Argentine shore positions So then we're not going to fire that So we went back out on the open deck and then at the bottom of the hill There was red tracer going up the hill which was our guys our special forces guys are short And at the top hill was um, I think fanning head with some Argentines Uh firing down and with green tracer and we watched this battle as the trip more green More red tracer went up the hill and then green until eventually it stopped and our guys Had um Cleared that land. Unfortunately. It was some of those guys who escaped who shot them andy heavens in in his helicopter the next day So then uh, we were told to get our heads down There was a duty team on duty, but there was uh, nothing happened overnight hell 600 in the morning We're up top waiting for casualties and it was a beautiful crystal day much like it is today here in D and kent and We're up and deck taking pictures and waiting for casualties that didn't arrive right away until about uh, 11 o'clock 12 o'clock and the uh, the agitine air force and navy planes started making their tanks and uh Captain borne again our raw navy captain kept us updated but with air raid warning white yellow red and uh all day we had the incoming uh air raids happening all around the ship I don't think camber was actually targeted. They were going to the grave funnel lines for whatever reason But the ships next to us were um target hms. Plymouth. I think got hit right next to us and It was just a crazy day And in between why do you think you weren't targeted? I mean after the belgrano was sunk you'd have thought Everything would have just been up up up for grabs excuse my use of uh the english language there, but Do you think the argentines knew if they hit a hospital ship that? Okay, I mean that didn't seem to bother them hitting the hospitals on shore No, well canberra wasn't the hospital ship had no red crosses And we were a troop ship and under the geneva convention You can be one or the other you can't be both So we were a ship and we should have been a prime target and they made a mistake and Of course I can only quote what I've read in over the years But apparently the the next day we were targeted that camber had moved So the ship that was in our location was was bombed the next day that they were briefed to hit the ship They've realized their mistake How is camber supposed to Other than mounting a few gpmgs up on the debt, I mean, I'm sure air defense Get involved in this. I just don't actually know how does camber defend itself in that situation. I mean it doesn't have the sophisticated radar systems missile systems Uh, it doesn't have something like goalkeepers or a machine gun that fires God knows how many rounds a second that can shoot missiles and Incoming planes out the sky What happens there Brian? Yeah, well, none of the ships had goalkeeper in those days. That's pre A fat pre phalanx. I think he's called pre chengon days so um on camber around the deck we had about 25 gpmgs lashed to the rails Uh, we had an air defense team of the rural marines and I think one of the guys got off some blowpipe missiles that some of the planes um, that's that um shoulder um, excuse me shoulder carried, uh Air defense weapon and they steer it. It's wireguided. I think and they steer it with a thumb. So it's not Accurate. I think later in the uh in the war some of them has had some successes by shooting down kakara Uh planes So we had these 25 machine guns all chattering away and um on the upper deck some blowpipes going off um, yeah, it was quite It added really added to the cacophony of the noise And whilst I was waiting for a casualty, uh, helicopter to come I went next to a marine who was uh, he said to me Bandy give me some more ammunition and he seemed to be quite impressed that I knew how to open the tin of of link ammunition He was less impressed when I wrapped the fucking lot on the floor into the water on the deck So he'd been me off fairly fairly quickly after that, but he was trying to drive around again I tried we've all done it You try dropping your pistol on deck in front of your In front of your high security detachment That doesn't that doesn't go down well, but you could at least I could blame my hangover So we had all these in guns kicking off on the deck blowpipe a couple of blowpipes going off And uh, the band team of my team we were waiting for casualties to come in Without any warning a wessex flopped literally onto the deck of the midships camber flight deck And I ran out to see what the plot and spoke to the crewman in the back What you know, do you have casualties was he picking up stuff? And he said no, it's the safest place at the minute And the pilot had just flopped down on camber's deck because of all the Outgoing rounds and missiles from the the rapier on the shore Or the machine guns Even the nappy manager on fearless was blighting away with a an SLR apparently so during the air raid The the pilot sometimes would get refuge anywhere they could on shore on land And so we had we had this wessex just flopped down And and then when he felt safe he just flew off again And what was it, um I'm trying to grasp the the I mean our friends at home won't ever have been in a the vast majority won't ever have been in a situation like this um Can you explain some what I mean what what are the bodies that are coming on board ship? What state are they in? What are are these people screaming? Are they doped up for the pain? um How does that affect affect you and your um Your fellow bandsman All the above I think um Perhaps go back to surgeon commanding rick johnny as a charismatic surgeon commander He took the decision to move the hospital ashore So most of the people we got uh had already been had some treatment Perhaps with a big M on their forehead meaning they'd had morphine or they're already in temporary splints um, so most of the people uh we come up with had already been treated in some way and and then uh Then we have people come on board in body bags I think somehow they were the most difficult to deal with because they were Well, we know, you know, you know, it it looks like a square Polythene bag black polythene bag, but you know, there's someone's father in there. There's someone's husband And we have to get to deal with them And and eventually do burials at sea that was something that's uh something body bags serve a purpose in one respect But but then in another You know, it's like one of your family dies and they carried a body out in a body bag and it's It it's that kind of Giving anonymity to a corpse That I don't know. I'm not trying to say anything. I'm just it's It's almost as haunting seeing the way that that life has just been covered over now. That's gone. That's history We're we're going to like pretend that that didn't happen. We put them in a bag That's convenient to ship it off home um almost That way that we deal with things is as is as haunting As if maybe the body was just, you know, I know I know in war it couldn't be but if it was just laying there and you know in Someone had cleaned it up as much as they could as a sign of respect um Yeah It's both those things. Yeah, same seeing the body and seeing the body bag evoke Different emotions, but but they all meet in the same place. Yes I think the casualties who made the most impact apart from Andy Evans were the Argentines who got on board because they sometimes had not Been through the hospital system and as well as their injuries. They were also but they were in total shock Have been captured and scared that we were going to Kill them. They were told the British would kill them And some of them were surprised to be landing on camera because they've been told it had been sunk Canberra and flames as the famous Argentine newspaper headlines. Well, we wasn't and uh, so they They made the most impression because they needed herding like like sheep, you know, and and and firmly directed below deck and into into the wards and going back to what you said about the The body bags I think for me the most emotional day of the whole war We're the burials at sea We were on our way to south georgia to meet with the queen the qe2 queen Elizabeth II and and the evans and the other two pilots um It was decided that by senior by senior officers that we would conduct Because we're still at the beginning of the operation That we would conduct the burial at sea So canberra being the ship it was had um large luggage doors about halfway down the side of the ship And so on on a certain day, uh, the Everyone was told this funeral was taking place and it was packed with everyone who hadn't gone ashore Bearing on most of the marines and parrots has all gone ashore by now Uh, but there's probably two 200 people formed up for union flag Bodies and laid out the the vicar and the senior officers And it brings me right back to something we said about the beginning Uh, uh, two of our buglers played the most emotional last post I've ever heard it wasn't a dry eye in the house And how they managed to play it and keep keep controls all credit to them And then we committed their bodies to the um yeah To the deep blue, but what a what a what a proud way for a for a sailor to go Marines, yeah, well by sailor, obviously marines are a part of the navy so With the with all that yes is it Was it hard to get all over all of this then? I mean, I I guess they're in what is the word indelible memories that Well until a minute I gotta say yes, and I look at me Yeah, you know, it never leaves you and um, and it's not always about remember Um, it's just uh, just goes in that thing that crucible that path part of those things that make you who you are gosh I mean even that in itself. I I think I was spud Spudily sas. I was chatting to the other day and I've just said what what's Spud what are the practicalities in war you see these pits dug is that Was that what how you dealt with it and he's like, yeah temporarily You know you place your dead comrades in the ground and cover them up. I believe later Many were re repatriated then of course there's uh there's a military graveyard on the falcons as well. Um I seem to remember And then of course there's the burial at sea which personally When I go fucks just you just Just chuck me in the organ honestly. I don't want any fanfare But that's I'll I'll be home then or sprinkle me as I say my boy sprinkle me in the sea Um, yeah, I'll I'll be all good Maybe a little fanfare maybe a little last post Wow Yes, I'm part of this beautiful thing called the universe. So I I can't go anywhere. So I'm I'll be in the flowers and the birds and the fish And uh the clouds Oh You know after I'm gone. This is this is what I'm telling my son Brian, you know, I want him to have a realistic understanding of death I don't think we deal with it very well as a species who certainly don't Oh I think Yeah, I'm trying to Oh Sorry, this conversation has gone out a bit of a tangent, but No, I think we have a kind of a very morbid approach to death in this country and I prefer the celebration of life myself Do you have any thoughts on that? Yeah, I like A good outlook on life. I mean, I I describe it's different when you're in the military and your mates are dying You know left right and Chelsea. It's a very somber moment Um, I mean when they buried Steve They brought his coffin into the church and he was a dog handler up in london, right? First of all, he's a very popular guy. So the evening before We all piled down a pub And One by one the door just kept smashing open and income a boot net income another boot net Income bear in mind, you know, we're spread around the globe at times. There were people coming back You know, there were people coming back from exercises in the jungle Door would go is another and by the end of this the evening the night before the pub was packed um the next day everybody got on coaches to go to the church and and uh It was sort of because his last base was warrior. There was a lot of um wren's present too um Someone knocked me for saying this the other day but all the wrens were in tears right Most of them were right from the beginning and I don't blame them I think by the end of it that most of the blokes were Um, but as they brought steve coffin into the church there was a There was a rule marine on one side of church with his sa80 upside down in that Pose could someone put that below what that's cool when you point your weapon down and you lean over it I I don't know on the other side of the door was a a rule marine holding steve's dog It was a a rock wiler And as the coffin came to the church draped in the union flag this poor bloody dog just started howling like It couldn't have picked a better moment to To symbolize what steve stood for to even to a bloody dog, you know If if if if there was a dry eye in the house then I think that all went out the window and um, you know Very taken very seriously isn't it in the military and I'm not saying it shouldn't be um Yeah, so it's all just part of the minute. It's just part of that military thing. No, brian. Do you know what I'm saying? If you go through that, yeah, what's that expression it what doesn't kill you makes you stronger What don't deal with makes you a bastard, I think And uh, it's certainly I think it made me stronger and I took after the marines I was in the police for 12 years And those experiences certainly helped me deal with some of the things I had to deal with in the police It helped me get through them and I was already prepared. I don't have what you call it and I was already Used to is the wrong word, but um, I was already prepared to deal with some of those as I saw in police. I'd already dealt with them before So, yeah, it's certainly if if you don't deal with them I can sneak up and bite you in the arse Yes, there's there's also the kind of it What can you say Like I went to On the the other side of fence went to the friends funeral and we all just wore like board shorts and hawaii shirts and I gave the is it eulogy is that the right the speech and um Just everyone was in stitches And uh, everyone have been up all night everywhere because it was like a week-long party It was a completely different thing, but there's There's an element to military institution that's Kind of serves to function to drive Drive the minute military machine Um, should we uh, move on from death? Yeah More cheerful. Yes Divorce and no, no, let's move on to that one Yes, so resting peace to all our all our good comrades out there You aren't you are never forgotten Coming home then I did you drop off the Argentines to Argentina. Did I did I hear that or have I misunderstood? No, yeah, the We had a quite a quite a few of them already on board wounded and That's when that picture was taken with With me with the SLR in this in this relatively small room And uh, that was taken to show that we were actually looking after the prisoners quite well and Then hostilities ended the RG through the towel in and We camber picked up about four thousand of them And we had a hundred worst guards come on board As guards prison guards and we took them all back to Argentina so We went into a small small port called Puerto Madrin It was an industrial port Uh a bit like captain. I've been there I mean I've been there so Puerto Madrin sorry to interrupt you oppo, but Puerto Madrin was where the first uh, some of the first settlers arrived down there in Patagonia Was it just is it just sort of north of Patagonia and um They still speak Welsh there believe it or not There's a part of Argentina still speaks Welsh. It's Puerto Madrin Ah, right So, uh, I did I did know some of them had settled there um, yeah this big industrial port and uh, we had um captain burn our Royal Navy captain. We had two captains on camber out We had captain Scott master who was the civilian master of the ship great bloke And captain burn Royal Navy who was in charge of the military And we were going in under the Geneva Red Cross convention, which required us to have special ID cards special Red Cross people would conduct the release of the prisoners in a certain form and at that time we um We we only had A hopscotch of whatever that is opens HMS fearless has asked for all their weapons back because hostilities had ended and Suddenly people had to account for where weapons were so we were left with a couple of SLRs a couple of pistols and two sngs held around our next upstream And we were the only marines on the board on board at the time and captain burns said to the Ted to the The Geneva cross people if that general comes up here my marines will open fire talking about the Argentines Well, we were the marines. We were the only marines and we only had six weapons between us. That was a bit tongue-in-cheek But at one point Tongue-in-cheek wise the band of imagities were all marines commando forces were nearly at war with the whole of the Argentine Army and navy on the dock side Notionally, I'm not suggesting it would have come to that The other thing we were told was don't go short We um start releasing the the prisoners and they go down the The gangway and they're met by an Argentine general and But we were passing the shore under the the gangway stretches and just by circumstances several of us actually Ended up ashore carrying stretches about 100 yards to the Argentine ambulances, which was quite a quite a quite a spooky feeling amongst all these form enemy And then as I was trying to get back up I found my stance right just want one second. I think I've got a delivery. Could you just keep telling your story? I can still hear you Don't meet again. No If you run out of dits Tell some jokes Okay The Argentine general is welcome in all the troops back and The world's press are taking the picture and in the background you can see myself um stood next to the general and then being at being A cheeky percussionist drama like I am I took up my own camera and took a reciprocating picture up the gangway, which um Which I used and which I'm going to be using in my book since Chris is not here Probably good time to tell you about the book that I've written Like everyone and his dog who who went to the Falklands war as sooner or later they feel the need to write a book and This one It's going to be published this year is called the band that went to war And the reason I've chosen to write it is because each year the band that went to the Falklands We have a reunion down in Plymouth And over the years unfortunately due to age and illness Each year there are less and less of us And I've realized that since the Falklands there are now at least eight of the band Who had passed over and have died? So this year I've decided during lockdown I was going to write a book so I've written the book and it's called the band that went to war and It tells the story much as Some of the bits and stories I've told today But it also features the picture of the Argentine general Welcoming his trips back and it also pictures that me beside him And also the picture I took from the bottom of the gangway looking up at the Argentine troops An interesting finale to this story is that on the last night before they left some of the Argentine troops asked for a Canberra Menu cover and they all signed it with thank you for looking after us all in Of course, but I've still got it and It's a it's a nice little gift to say thanks for looking after us and taking us home And sorry we caused any trouble um And another post script to that is last year An Argentine found a copy of this Canberra menu and found all the Argentine soldiers inside it to me and now they've been in touch recently Wishing me well and asking how I am so Yeah, that was taking the back was quite interesting Exciting and cheeky got some pictures posing alongside an Argentine general on the dock Wow And how was the journey? What was it like to arrive? But back in the uk I mean you've got it come you've got emotions coming from all directions, haven't you you've you've got the fact that we've won You've got the fact that you're still alive when so so so many weren't and so many were injured You've got the fact that you're going to see your family. You've got the british um That's an adulation that they had for the for the victory and and the homecoming troops Yes, put us put us in your shoes, brian As soon as we left argentina with that we went back to falcons and picked up all the commander units the royal marine commander units And they decided we weren't going to bring the the parachute regiment back guys There we have to go on the norland and the other ships So we were just following marines the camera And it was a party atmosphere all the way north now the band on board. We were doing formal concerts For groups, but we also broke down into smaller combinations I was in the jazz quartet with martin dale bruno ron and george state And we played in the smaller messes for four two and forty commando There was also a rock band that was formed and they played in some of the messes So all the way back once once we left the falcons and it was a party atmosphere and We got to ascension of course the weather now we're on the equator the weather's warmer people sunbathing and the only concern was and special pipes were put out over the PA system to slow down the drinking we were going to run out of beer And luckily when we got to ascension islands they flew on a couple of hundred kegs of beer And for the first time ever when when they asked for a working party The flight deck was full of boot necks to move this beer down below decks When we've been moving tons and tons of ration and combo and any issue before you couldn't find any other bugger But the band suddenly the beer arrived and roe was there and moving all these panels also Also, they flew on a An entertainment team and at one point they were going to send on anita harris and I can't think of his name. Oh Shut that door. What's that by that comedian larry grason? They would send on larry grason and anita harris the boys would have eaten him or and Luckily they didn't come but they sent on this entertainment team of girl dancers and musicians singers And they added to the to the band's entertainment value Uh, so we sat on home and we uh up channel night It's a very important night in any roe navy ship is when the ships heading into plimoths or into portsmouth They turned the corner by land's end and it's your last night at sea and the band did a fantastic Beat retreat on the deck uh off land's end To 2000 raw marines and they give us a cheer. Can you can you explain what beat beat retreat is? Sure during the old days when war was was Forced certain rules the medieval times at the end of the day You would recall your troops back from the battlefield using drums and This is developed into something to what the raw marines Band service do the beat retreat Which is a formal marching display with music the buglers go out the front do a drum static display Then it's finished with usually sunset and last post And the flags are lowered on raw navy ships And it was a very emotional one to do off land's end It was great So next morning. Yeah, we head into uh camera heads into Southampton We're followed by thousands of small boats people lining the shore There were they were supposed to be 15 000 people allowed into the dock to welcome us Um, but the police gave up counting at 20 000 and just let everyone anyone to be there And uh, we had a fantastic emotional arrival in Southampton good few hours to get everyone off the boat and off the ship and We all put on coaches and for some of us or the Plymouth ratings the guzz ratings We started the coach journey back to Plymouth and every few hundred yards And people would stop the bus and throw beer on Women would be on there with some young ladies who Showed us they weren't carrying any weapons by bearing their tops over bridges on the a 303 Um, you just couldn't do a thing wrong And we eventually got back to Plymouth for about a five-hour drive. It took us And uh, that was it off. We went on eventually to to leave And to deal with the emotions of what had just happened to us over these last three months and how How was that i'm guessing it that's uh, That's something that's quite protracted, isn't it dealing dealing with the the aftermath of it all At the time you think you fireproof 25 26, um It's patting you on the back The marine's bandos now know what the band service can do everywhere you go Your friends and family who have missed you and want to know your your stories And so you don't tend not to delve into it until you have to talk about the the burrows at sea or Or those kind of things or in fact until until you get older Perhaps when you want to deal with them when you in those things you want to look at examines If they damaged you well, of course they damaged you how you're going to deal with it Um, there's a young man you tend to think you're fireproof. It's only later in life if In fact when it comes to the deal bombing I realized I was better prepared than some of the people who were at the actual bombing on the day Emotionally by having gone to the Vulcans Um, it's back to this what doesn't kill you makes you stronger I think and there is a certain amount of that truth in that So when and how you deal with it I don't know. I'm I'm still dealing with it. Of course I am and I didn't I wasn't sure I wasn't doing what the commandos and the parrots and the guards were doing on some of those mountains You know my war on it was on a cruise ship and was relatively easy. I say relatively but you know, it was relatively easy and uh, but it's still left still left baggage and damage that um I'm still dealing with of course I am let's if Let's talk if we may and feel free to say what you want and what you don't want, which I'm sure sure you will but I'm very keen on this show to highlight The veteran story Uh, obviously we're in a veteran suicide epidemic at the moment. It's it's probably set together a lot worse after this last 18 months that we've all had of people having their lives just just just imprisoned um What i'm getting at is I I say this a lot. It's one thing dealing with trauma as an adult when you have your you have the ability to Compartmentalize it to deal with it Employee rationale It's a very different thing For those of us that experience trauma as as infants when we were at an age we couldn't Deal with it. We didn't have the equipment. We didn't know what what this big bad thing was that was wrong Um And obviously many people that join the forces are people that are in that boat it it produces a certain sort of character Often one that wants to prove themselves If not to themselves make maybe maybe to to certain others um But brian your your father was killed before you were born And I I'd be interested to know How does that affect A young person Or or or how did it affect you? well, unfortunately, I It didn't really affect me because it happened before I was born. So I knew no different trauma in my young life was my stepfather. It was a matlow uh An irish guy and he didn't like me because I wasn't his I was the cuckoo in the nest And uh, he hated me And I hated him in equal measure. So my trauma I can't really well It was all I ever knew I grew up without a father And eventually the raw marines took their place um, you know, my stepfather was a bastard and um, I um Me and his my step brother, we actually tried to kill him We had tried to push you put some string across some steps and try to push him down the steps And uh, I was aged about 14 and a half. That's when he threw me out the house So I had trauma as a as a young step But it wasn't because my father had been killed because I knew no different So I can't Dwell or it doesn't it it wasn't a wounding Does it Does it not affect you in in the capacity? Of for example going to school when everyone go. Yeah, my dad's doing this. My dad's taking me to the football tomorrow It is that not trauma in itself? Is that not a No, because I didn't have that sort of um Childhood with my step but my only father figure was my stepfather as I say he was a bastard And and unfortunately the um, I ended up being put into different children homes when I was between 12 and and 13 and 14 Uh because of circumstances he created. So I never had really a normal Childhood upbringing. I can remember primary school But I didn't have a father when I did have one. I didn't like him the stepfather so Unfortunately, I I can't really go there because it just it just wasn't there was no normality in my young life And my father my real father That was or you know was never there If he'd have died when I was a few years old, I think it would have been I'd have an answer for you, but it's it's very much in the negative Situation I something I never knew the negative came later with um with my stepfather. Got you So let's talk about The tragedy that was the deal bombing. Let me just get a picture up for Folks watching Oh One second All right, just turn my microphone off while I sneeze and cough. Um Where are we here? That's just So yeah, I'm just bringing up a picture here of the barracks in deal I Was uh, I was on patrol in belfast And I remember a bus full of catholic school children went past And I don't know if it's part of the whole kind of upbringing over there that bands are a big thing um You can enlighten us more More to this brand bands are certainly big for the orange order, aren't they and they're marching parades and all this Sort of stuff, but anyway the point I'm getting to is this bus went past and the kids did a remarkable job of drumming on the floor of the bus with their feet and of course they were Uh, they were having a go at us because they just heard about the deal bombing So they were taking a piss out of us basically um So yes over over to you. What what happened? Uh, so I was uh, ought to explain deal barracks is split was split into four with public roads You're east north south barracks and the infirmary with public roads And split dividing them and we had civilian guards by that point. Um And took about paying, you know, pay pay peanuts get monkeys nice chaps So they weren't armed and they weren't particularly diligent. I'm not blaming them to deal bombing But we felt as the school of music because the the commando training had moved from that point We felt the school of music to be honest. We probably weren't a target Which was rather naive and then on Uh, the 22nd of september 1989 um 8 20 in the morning The IRA had got in and planted a bomb in the band room And a couple of dozen guys were in there getting changed And it went off and brought the most of the building down Killing killing quite a few and trapping others um, I was cycling down the hill to work at the time and I got to the corner of the road and I saw one of the the guy used to teach violin George Simpson We stood the covered in dust saying there's been a gas explosion And I cycled up to the barracks and dust was still settling at this point And people were scrabbling through the rubble and there was a smell and It was it was obviously explosives. I say obviously and maybe you know mixing Memories there, but I'm sure at the time it wasn't gas And um The fire service was starting to arrive the police was starting to arrive Bodies were starting to be pulled out of the rubble people people I knew And uh, we started to dig amongst the rubble for um for survivors And the fire the fire chief Once he had the incident commander as they're called Blue is whistle and got everyone to be quiet because one of the things that happens In those circumstances people buried and avalanche like I think you need to listen for survivors And after you'd stop every two or three minutes to listen for survivors and then carry on digging And the small team I was with we were digging away and somebody found a shoe But as he pulled the shoe out and there was still a foot in the shoe, but it wasn't attached to anyone so I took the shoe in the foot and put it in a blanket And I just think that was one of those circumstances that I've been Better prepared for than some of the others uh, then um, unfortunately because the incident was ongoing Uh, we knew we had about eight or nine dead at that point um, one of the um Silences was called So we could listen to survivors and there were news helicopters hovering overhead deafening not deafening as I was working asking for silence Uh, and I got very angry at that so I managed to get to a phone in phone RF months And got them to make contact with the helicopters and tell them to fuck off basically Um, by the end of the day, we had 10 dead overnight, we had another one die And there were dozens injured Um a friend of mine luckily survived. He was blown out of the room and halfway through a window But was trapped by his legs And so um, he had to be dug out not by us by um, but by first first people on the on the scene And some of the first people on the scene were actually the the junior musicians who had not long joined And were practicing on the parade ground marching up and down playing a song playing a march Bond went off And they were some of the first people In their first months of their military career, you were on scene dealing with the the immediate aftermath of the bombing So it ripped the heart out of the barracks It ripped the heart physically out of the buildings It ripped the heart out of the band service and in a small town like deal It ripped the heart out of the town as well gosh and I think an emotional Point for everyone as if this isn't emotional enough was when the The band marched through deal and and didn't they leave spaces in the ranks for those Those that that were dead Yeah, I actually um, I marched in the parade but I was just with the senior nco instructors But in the um in the bar afterwards I said to Graham Harvey. It was the rsn. He was uh An rsn, but he was a warrant officer bands bandmaster And I broke down then because I said we shouldn't have left the holes just because it showed the IRA what they'd achieved Um, I get why we did and it wasn't my decision. But to me it was a physical showing of what's of their success if I say that in bunny ears, you know, um What they've achieved I but um Yeah, there's no right or wrong answer that just personally and that's what really got to me I broke down in the sergeant's vest when I was trying to explain that to him. But um, yeah, it was uh a bad Since who have uh been attributed to the bombing, but um, I know we've lost people since who have died as an indirect Uh consequence of that bombing emotionally um I got involved with It was It was particularly harsh as obviously all all all incidents like this are harsh but it the Mainly teenagers many of whom had only just joined the unit None of whom were commandos obviously they were in the band. So they weren't It wasn't as if they're a a military target There was I heard talk. I don't know how accurate this is that they were having a disco there, which wasn't particularly well Securityed um, can we say Or guarded because of this civilian security firm and that Girls were coming in just a quick flash of their handbag and then they were allowed in I think that that's not true. That's that is one of those urban nifts Um, there were discos Um, they were or weren't badly attended But the team that did this, uh, we know the house they stayed at They know the names of the members. They know the guy who climbed over the wall and placed the bomb in the band room um So it's it's no great secret, you know the route the route and I mean I know this from my time in the marines and in the police They know who these people are and they know the house where they stayed forensically, it was it was you know, they were they were found They were particularly good at hiding hiding themselves at post event. There was lots of forensic evidence but, um For whatever reason they've never been brought to justice. Yeah, no one was ever even arrested which is bizarre Well, I think the good Ray agreement and all that Perlisable mevering Has meant I'll go scot-free, but certainly their names are known And uh, the actual bomb is a guy went over the wall. There's two two men and a female rented this house Uh, ostensibly to go fishing which they all was known for but um No, they were it's the road that went alongside the barracks And it was no problem for anyone to get over over the wall Uh, practically the first building they were to come to would have been the band room and uh, there were no roving patrols at the time civilians on the gates and It was just unfortunate. Well more than unfortunate, but our boss at the time as that colonel dixon And his career suffered As a result although it was not his fault Lee the Excuse me the barracks security was was not down to him It was the m.o.d. Who would be replaced marines with them civilians And the action at the time was that of kith mills Who was famous for his work in there is his small war in south georgia And I think they were both tainted career wise by the bombing although, you know, he really wasn't their fault So So brian, um when you're not writing Books I'm going to bring your book up on the screen again. Um, what do you do with your days? If you ask my wife very little bit, um Being locked down I um, obviously I took the time to write this book Hold on I'm running out of battery even though I've got it plugged in down to 10% Um, yeah, I've retired. I uh, I did 12 years in the police afterwards I'm so i've got a fairly decent pension because I transferred my raw marine time into police time um, I do a bit of music um During lockdown I've written this book I did write another book called when god came back a science fiction extravaganza 120 000 words And I don't know 120 000 words So I had to use some of them over and over again, but um by all accounts it's that book is not very good So I was going to say there's There'll be one of your two books that I'll be reading. I'm I'm afraid brian. It won't be that one. No disrespect to you. It's just I I'm not a massive I write fiction But I'm not a massive fiction It's got it. It's got to be right for me. And I'm not really I've never I've never really liked sci-fi for some reason I think it's because from a young age I've always thought bloody hell. There's so much stuff in the world that's real. That's fascinating What why do people From the age of being children want to fictionalize some Something that's out of this world when there's enough on the planet that's that's That's real to focus on should we say Well, that that book was a friend of mine. We were talking about animal welfare and animal cruelty And she said well, what happens when gold comes back and finds what we've done? No, I'm not religious But I said that's a great title for a book When gold came back So it's part science fiction. It's part It's not religious, but it does also look at some of the animal The way we treat animals. Anyway, the premise was good. The execution wasn't so great And I I didn't spend the money having it edited So there are so many typos that and I self published on Amazon, but um, yeah It's the premise is so good. It deserves but it deserves a sequel But it'd be better written But this book I've spent a lot of time editing of course. It's factual. It's done from my diaries and other accounts. It's called the band that went to war and It's got a lot of original pictures in it including myself posing with the Argentine general in port of Madrid And I've spent a lot of time editing in correctly all the typos. So I am I'm moderately confident that this is a much better Book and pen and sword have done a great job on the jacket cover the cover of the book, which I think you may have a copy of I'm very pleased with that And it should be like in the summer like summer Yes, I'm just looking to see if it's listed yet, but I don't think it's up yet So we can't put a link link link link for it below But when it does come on the market, let me know and I'll put a link under underneath our video Thanks, Chris Brian. I have to say Been an absolutely fascinating chat Um Frames at home lots of difficult subjects to talk about But I think it's just good to talk and we try to do our best here on the channel to You know cover issues that can sometimes be Controversial can sometimes just be bloody harsh to talk about so um Yeah, so I hope I hope everybody gets that Brian you seem remarkably um Well, well adjusted royal if I may say so Are you you've been one of my friends that would say that? Um, you're not as angry as me. Are you? No, no, I've uh, I've dealt with a lot of my issues luckily, uh, even today talking about it It's quite cathartic to realize that actually I've still got a few issues. I need to tease out and Um, I think one of the good things is I play drums So if if there's any fucker I want to take it out on I can go and give it 10 bells on the drum kit and That gives me a good Emotional and physical outlet And still so music music I'd say is uh, is it has been a good therapy for me over the years humor as well Um, I think I've been with smiles and I write pantomimes and stuff So, uh, I've got several outlets for my shows are creative duties and with it goes a lot of my angst and anger Unless of course you're one of those Indian scammers who phones me up like they did yesterday And they get both barrels, but uh, so so so yeah, I'm touch wood I'm dealing with it and living life As best I can good Excellent Well oppo, thank you so much again Uh, wish you all the best with with your future and and obviously also your book Um, which as I said do look forward to reading To our friends at home massive love to you all There we go. Look you get a subscribe up on the screen Technologies on our side today. So if you could please do that like and subscribe Also, probably should have said this at the beginning Uh friends if we can get some support for the patreon Uh, we're telling stories on this channel that we we don't really want lost to history We want to preserve these so the the next generation can learn by them and and and Hopefully iron out see um Maybe iron out some of this generation's Uh mistakes, can I say? Um, so yeah, if you could like and subscribe and support the patreon. It's $1.99 a month you get all my books for free Um in ebook form you get to come as vip's to my annual talk. So Yes, that's it I'm going to be quiet See you all soon credits