 Thank you, and I'd like to invite our panelists to take the stage as well. I am going to from the podium Give you the introduction of this Great panel. We've got to follow up on that those pretty Pretty inspiring in the sense of the challenges out there and what can be done about them presentations and then I'm going to join them in the In a chair there and we're going to have a dialogue I'm hopeful about the issues that were presented. So let me go from I'll go from your from right to left and introduce Harry Sia Harry holds the concurrent posts of assistant chief executive future systems and technology and chief engineering and technology officer at PUB Singapore's National Water Agency He leads PUB's efforts in the continuous Exploration research and development of water technology essential to future-proof PUB's water system and beside Harry You go ask you more about that Harry how you future what future-proofing means because It's it sounds like a very bold aspiration and sitting beside Harry is professor Kathy Ching who? Kathy is the director of the engine in an engineering innovation center Sus tech in Beijing. She is a former board of director member at CED Dadi Environmental remediation company and before that she was an associate director and chief representative of UK Hal Crow group and Beside Kathy is Jonathan Clement Jonathan is the global technology officer for nanostone Jonathan comes to nanostone from PWN Technologies where he held the position of chief executive officer and prior to that He spent most of his career at Black and Veatch where he led the water treatment business 2018 Jonathan was named one of the top 25 water leaders in the world by Waterworld magazine, that's very impressive Jonathan and Finally last but not least Vim Drosart Vim is currently CEO of Dunia Dunia Dunia water utility in the Netherlands previously. He served as president of the Europe Africa region of MWH Headed headquartered in Colorado United States He is passionate about the current and future demands for water and energy engaging both clients customers and staff for mutual success Give our panelists a round of applause All right, I'm going to join you here, and I'm going to just start by saying I thought that that presentation Introduced us to maybe the most sophisticated academic and sophisticated buyer of technology that we could have had on the stage so in that marketplace We've got a utility DC water who clearly is deeply engaged in creating innovation within their organization and bringing together that cycle of Going from the academic into the actual application of new practices I'm going to ask Vim to start I'm going to ask him because you're in the utility sector and My question to you is is that kind of decision-making process the one you go through? When you're looking at innovations in your utility Thank you Also, thank you for the presentation from the boat keynotes speakers. It was pretty impressive You know from a utility perspective you need to weight everything from different sites One of the things is that we developed Technology to my case to purification for water, but we have done it already for 150 years So we have invested a lot in existing technology. So just rapidly changing it. It's pretty Well, it's involving a lot of cost So you cannot make that decision that quickly because also as a public utility I need to go to the public to explain why I'm doing it And that's and make my case maybe even a big bigger challenge because in the Netherlands people are just assuming It's that usual that you get water out of the tap. So I need to explain it Let me ask you this because this I think is it is where where the where the rubber meets the road if you will in terms of the Commercialization of new technology somebody has to buy it and these are complex Technologies the sale of you're solving complex problems You're describing how you need to go and consult with the public about it You've got a hundred and fifty years of infrastructure Who else do you talk to in that process in order to make this decision? And do you have the resources you need to do it? I think yes, we need to cooperate with universities We need people from this audience. We need I w a and this so we need a lot of help in making it But also we have of course our people ourselves involved in it So can I go to you Harry? Because I think in some I feel like PUB in my mind is a lot more like DC water in terms of the amount of Capacity you have within PUB to do your own research to evaluate technology to to take risks with Respect to the implementation implementation of new technology How how did you succeed in building that kind of capability? What's the driver for that in in PUB? I Think first thing first is that I think in a way we in PUB We must be in a way be technically strong That means understanding our operation understanding our planning our design Then while saying that so we all this knowledge experience in Then in the end any new ideas or technology that maybe in the audience companies Unities whatever is the means I say current So basically what we do is that we benchmark against our current what we are doing is this idea has a potential to make it better than our current Processes if the answer is yes, then where are the gaps then from the gaps then that's where that's the research question in a way to stay relevant so that in the end is a Solution is a problem looking for a solution then the solution looking for a problem Now while saying this to this current technology only by us time Because if you are appreciating about climate change and everything where they the need to utilize your resources Efficiently and well you need to look for new solutions. That's where in a way What we will do is that we need to look long-term. So we do I'll do R&D in terms of a long-term Some of the fundamental research we find it We go back to nature to look for a new solution and prepare the journey maybe 10 years 20 years 30 years because I think those who come to Singapore because our driver in Singapore is different we are very What I call it? We are nothing. There are no resources. So basically we're taking everything. So it's is to our Interest to ensure that everything that we use is used well at a minimum So Harry, let me follow up because I see it. There's an interesting Dynamic you're creating here because I'm not sure the Netherlands is if if Singapore is is nothing The Netherlands is I won't even finish the sentence It almost was nothing But do you have this so Vim has talked about the the business of raising rates and going back to the public and getting Explaining why we're fooling around with something that's worked perfectly for 150 years is Do you have this same issue with sort of the public acceptance of of the investments? You're making and the long-term vision you have Well, I think basically is that I think the public trust in us is high as a utility We have to ensure that the water with supply and and the people drink is safe not only for household but for the For the for the industries Industry also is a customer. So they have a certain what the quality needs Then maybe sometimes they even be more stringent than for drinking. So basically understanding your customer So in the end bottom line everything that we do it cannot even it may be the most efficient if the water quality or safety It's compromised We will not go for it Kathy can I pose this question in the context of what you're doing in China? Do you see yourself as more like? Harry in terms of the vision and investment in engineering and research and academic Research in developing innovation or are you more in kind of Vim's dilemma of I have a hard time getting people Agree to make the kinds of investments. I think I'd like to make Thanks, Paul. I Think I totally have different opinion because I'm working in the innovation center And now we sort of like a work to the different direction Because now the the whole world is changing. It's not like before we always, you know doing the end of the treatment You know all the bully waste we could change it to the front and the innovation center Which is we cooperated with some other field like IBM? You never think you're going to cooperate with them. We cooperate with the You know I I pull you know all this different Industry and what they required they required if we could sort like a provide More efficient and also we provide a sort like a low-cost You know this also kind of a process. So we think you know from my opinion I think I w you know I w a is a very good platform which could get in all different prospective different field people work together and they can solve the problem from the front not always in the end You know as you're talking about China because you can see the air pollution used to be you know A couple of years ago you can see the end of the treatment to you know It's useless you cannot control anymore about the you know the air pollution So we need to go back to the front So how you reduce even doing the the circular economy Sustainable economy that can be the possible now because you all work together from different are you and you? optimistic about that the ability for that point of view to migrate across China and change the way Basic engineering practices. Yeah, I quite you know, so like a confident You know for your nano nano process and the graphy now all become to the possible And this can be used in the environmental field. It's no problem at all. Okay. Well Jonathan Yeah, you've got two microphones because you have so much to say I See you I see you as Having had experience in a lot of different aspects of this and not the least of which is in the sort of entrepreneurial Aspect of it as well. You gave me a strange look there when I was saying something What were you thinking? Well, I'm thinking about why we're all here and one of the the tasks How I w a adapts to innovation and how I w a can serve innovation and I think it's all about learning and it's about education because I did something for the Asian Development Bank a few years ago and What I realized that people were very Unknowledgeable about what's going on with water technology Harry and I had an earlier conversation about MBRs People don't understand a lot of the new technologies today and the biggest role that we have to worry about Everyone on this stage and everyone that's out there has to worry about education and Education is the key its knowledge. It's listening and as Socrates said I'm ignorant and I have to learn So I don't want to talk too much. I want to listen Okay, well it let's come back. Let we are very we have a very limited amount of time So have you raised this both? Kathy and Jonathan have raised this issue of what can I w a do? to Accelerate this process. Maybe we all feel that when we look at other sectors in the economy that the the rate of change and adoption of new technologies Exceeds what we're doing in the water sector dramatically say what could I w a do to make this? Happened faster in our sector. I'm going to repeat myself education. Do you think that's it? But does that if if? After being knowledgeable is very good. No, I'm buying this But did there other things that need to happen? I would like to add something to it is education, of course But also sharing knowledge and I think sometimes especially in the commercial side here We are protecting our IP and if we start protecting the IP and not sharing it We will never make the steps that we need to make Yeah, I would like to add the education could lead into the you know Thinking changes thinking, you know the thinking from Internet away from big data way So you could see the different world and Harry. Do you want to add to that? I? Think I do I do a sales has a very important role to play. I think the key is actually Discussing right facts and figures. I think a lot of times. I mean I tend conferences So sometimes in a way, I couldn't come from the paper I couldn't get any Learning points from it because it lacks many information Maybe I w a can do is to try to in a way to improve the in terms of protocols in terms of quality of paper For example, like if I talk about water reuse, which is my favorite topic Right, maybe as a standard as a standard requirement show me your processes Instead of use loose terms like tertiary treated efflonch, which can mean just a simple sand filter to Can be an MF filtered it can be our old water So it's used loosely this one and two is the in I learned from operation point of view Is the water quality data the quality data? Qaqc is very important because I learned a hard way when I was not Smart enough or Discipline enough to look at qqc. I was spending weeks and weeks trying to troubleshoot a problem When I'm going off-tension Until I question the data and realize that my sampling was wrong. Whatever doing is wrong So maybe come out a certain protocol when you talk about water quality You state a water quality is state a parameter is state the protocol that you use So you can create some discipline in terms of the technical presentation then whether I mean Singapore or whether in Africa or US or where am I I understand how you get the data that the information I Think that's very important and can I ask you one one last question? Do I have time for one last question Robert? the As we look to creating sort of closed loop systems like the closed loop system you have in Singapore Does is this a disruptive kind of new design objective that that creates? Opportunities to rethink How we use technology or how we apply technology is it a moment where? Where new changes kind of inspired by these new objectives and goals that many Utilities had Jonathan says no, I don't think so. No, I don't quite try to understand your question, but I think Thinking about the Netherlands and I'm thinking about Singapore. These are very small countries Which have very high population and they have to deal with these things the problem is is that innovation is is Many times forced by a crisis if there's a problem we deal with it And that's a problem in this industry is that we don't deal with something until we have to rather than be more forward thinking Any other comments in this I was I was it came to me when I was listening to city or talk about a wastewater plant and really solving wastewater treatment problems very elegantly if this was the front end of a water treatment plant would this be different and And would would that create of course it would be different, but does that create a sort of change in the industry that could be a Maybe I can add a little bit to it because I agree also a Jonathan was saying But I also would emphasize that we should not think too small we should think big and I think also we should be Careful not to stay in the water bubble if I may say so So let's think about different sectors. Let's see you how we can learn from them For example, the digitalization is going so fast that will have a bigger influence on our whole industry than closing the loop between The water cycle, so let's open also for maybe for our WA Let's open open to this Kathy. Do you want to add anything? Yes talking about the good quality of data, you know, I think Harry's right You know right difficult, but if you use a big data big data is not means a big amount From different variety so you can cross the you know, you know prove your data surround or not For example when we doing something we use satellite data. We use energy data even transportation data Or can you know cross so I can prove what you got and you find it a trend is very beautiful Yeah, just want to add it. Okay. I think I think our time is up Although I feel like we could carry on this conversation for a long time. I could everybody please give Nice round of applause and appreciation for our panelists I Want to this this topic is a theme for the entire day I want to just invite anybody who is kind of interested in continuing to engage in this discussion to go to room 101 where you can Follow a full day-long track on this topic of innovation and programming in and with that I again, thank you all for your attention and Close the meeting. Thank you