 There we are and we should be live. Hello everyone. Welcome back to for the Mingus the weekly show We talk about predecessor over prime and ethereal We got a lot to talk about this week as both predecessor and over prime had patches We haven't seen the patch in effect yet for predecessor, but we have seen the patch notes It's kind of interesting that they both went the opposite way with the mages and uh Yeah, I think it's also important before we really dig into these today that if you see if you didn't see Something changed in these patch notes that you wanted to see changed It's important to note that they've only been out for a little bit It seems like they've been out for a long time both games are early access both games will have been out for a short while So give them some time. I'm sure if it's really that important. They'll get to it, but uh Yeah, I'm your host the man goose joining me as always is my friend and co-host jelly knees. How you doing jelly? I am fantastic man. Who's happy to be here and yeah I think you touch on a great note that this is the first or second major patch for both of these games Right like that. This is not by any means like extensive patches on patches on patches on patches So it's really interesting to see where they're going what they're prioritizing and stuff And I think there's some things that are good and bad for both sets of patch notes But with us we've got the Viking Jedi as always as well. Welcome back Viking Jedi Thank you. Yeah, no, I also am really excited And and I love that you guys started off the show talking about how new both games still are and that this is Like the first real big patch that we have for both. So and they're meaty patches Like I think that there's a lot that both dev teams came into swinging for You know, whether good or bad we'll kind of get into that. I think But you know, I am the Viking Jedi. You are awesome Don't take my shit I'll take my shit. How are you man goose? What's what's your week been like? Yeah, yeah, yeah anyway, let's uh, let's move into the patch notes for For predecessor At least you don't sound dead anymore like when he got in guys like we did a couple early games today And he woke up a little bit late. Yeah, and he was like Hey guys, uh, yeah, they're fucking only got a couple in me today And I was like dang dude it like I were you smoking while sleeping like what? Yeah, I woke up into people try hard knowing the Fey mid-lane and quick match like fuck that boy He was not alright. So predecessor patch notes. We got quite a bit of them to go through here So Revenant is finally here. They're they kind of reworked mages a little bit They did a few other balance changes and then they changed a lot quite a few of the items So we're going to go through all of it today. So the new hero appears Revenant so we finally get to see his kit So his passive this is about the only thing that we really weren't too aware of our revenue starts with a rank in Hellfire rounds. So you always start out with your right click One rank at that he does not shoot faster with the tax speed but does gain five percent Critical strike chance increase total physical power when Revenant kills an enemy hero He will gain 50 plus 25 per bounty stack additional gold So, uh, even if they're not in the shadow rim when he kills them, he still gets additional gold off kills Mm-hmm, and it's wild. Yeah, any thoughts? I Think that by itself is kind of an insane ability that there so this gave me some questions though Revenant starts with a rank in Hellfire rounds. That's his right click totally fine Where was it was it on this ability, maybe it was on a different one Maybe it'll be actually on his right click Okay, maybe it's changed. I feel like it was different There was something on here about like stacking that was not defined before that I was confused about Oh, no, no, there it does. Yeah, it's a perfect bounty stack, but it doesn't tell you how to get bounty stacks No, not at all. Yeah, I'm guessing that's just whenever you kill somebody you get a bounty stack, baby I would assume I'm going off of based on countless that they're gonna do unique hero kills stacks Oh, I was thinking because they have a bounty system in the game, right? So if they if you get a kill on somebody who has a bounty you get plus 25 per whatever They're like the stacks of the bounty on that that champion. I Guess that's possible That was what I thought it was so it was like an additional bonus gold In it but would be insane. So his Healing is gonna be nuts like he's gonna be a hyper carry that is the case that the killing characters with bounties on them Yes, benefits him by adding more gold per stack of bounty if they have 400 gold. Let's say it's four stacks. We don't know really how their bounty system works It's not really well-defined anywhere that I've seen. Mm-hmm. That's an extra hundred gold Plus the 50 he's already getting plus the 400 he's already getting off of them That's 650 gold off of a single Course is confused confirming it that he said it's like like what I said, it's tied to the bounty system. Okay. Okay, okay That's wild. Yeah, I wish that was way more clearly defined because plus bounty stack and the ability is called bounty hunter It could be explained a little better, but now that makes more sense right her to hear first on FTM All right, well, I think you're getting gold from his passive just period instead of from his ultimate It is a wild change. I personally like Easter famine on Revenant But to me that's the kind of 80 carry that I've always thought he was and this just makes it like in bread in his kit and at least from Paper right? I like the way that it sounds. Obviously. We'll see how it goes in game Like how fast revenants are just hardcore, you know taking over games It also kind of means though that Revenant is never really out. He's old. He's kind of just he's kind of like a ticking time bomb In the sense that it's like you you're not really gonna keep him out of the game Yeah, you're not really gonna keep him out of the game eventually He's going to be relevant just by getting the passive gold income as it goes. So I mean it's exciting We were concerned or not concerned Maybe like, you know had the question marks of what the passive was going to be. I kind of like it personally It's gonna be wild though, like it's gonna definitely make him You know, like I think jelly hit the nail and had feast or famine at least early, right? If you get lots of gold quick I guess I shouldn't say feast or famine I should say feast or waiting to feast so like it's not Yeah, that's anything he just only gains every time he does something he'll he'll be the Draven of predecessor, right? That's fair. Yeah, he gets kills. He will be unstoppable. Congratulations. You just lost the game Draven's a good one to use I was thinking more like gangplank, you know, or gangplank doesn't really lose He just it just takes time for him to come on because he's always passively earning money Yeah, he's going to be strong and This kind of ties in too with another change that they made which is a creep score bounty So not only do you get a kill streak bounties put on you? You get a creeps if you're really high on creep score as opposed to the rest And I'm assuming that this bounty will also apply to a creep score bounty because it's just You actually you actually touch on my favorite thing actually I I was really excited to see that because that's one of my favorite Things that they added in League of Legends. I want I like that. It's like, you know, hey You are going up. You let's say, you know, unfortunately got drafted into a losing matchup Right and the guy that you're up against is just a farm champion all day long But you finally hit your spikes and he oversteps He over thinks he's got it and you can collect on that bounty or you can't you get that, you know Crucial gank to come into your lane. I think it's super valuable It's gonna I think it's gonna as far as like income both these changes I mean having him in and the the creep score bounty is going to put a lot more money into the game Which means the items are gonna come online a little faster might push up the pacing of the game a little bit more And which I think will be interesting But it's also not going to punish necessarily people who are farm heavy and want to farm They just have to be aware that hey, I've been farming like a monster. There might be like a target on my head now They're gonna want to come and get me which I think is great. You know what I mean? Because there's there's too many champions I think sometimes feel like I'm just gonna farm this out and there's nothing anybody can do about it And and there's nothing that can be punished about it either So this I think is it was one of my favorite changes that they added in personally, so I'm excited to see what it does I think this passive one revnet does give them a nice tuning knob for him If he has a little overpowered just tune back that gold a little bit. He's underpowered then give him a little more gold. Oh No, I think it'd probably be fine. It's a his Q ability obliterate The effect revnet unleashes 10 ethereal missiles that home in and hit random targets within a wide cone Dealing, you know how much bonus physical power and 75% magical powers We has both bonus and magical power scaling on this with the magical power scaling being a little a little more pronounced But it does deal physical damage per missile landing subsequent hits against enemy heroes deals of 15% damage. So the more Missiles you hit each time with obliterate the more damage the next one's going to do So if you do catch somebody outside of a minion wave, go ahead I don't think that's what it's saying. I think I hope not. I hope not. I think it's unclear I don't think it's 15% additional damage. I think it's your subsequent hits are dealing only 15% damage. Oh Okay, it's a cap not a increase. Oh, thank God because I was thinking holy shit. You'll just get again I think it's one shot by obliterate defined in the ability But I think that that's what it is Okay, maybe maybe horse can come in and put it that up as well Well speaking of horse. He did throw another comment in there He said needless to say revenant has disadvantages to other carries and bounty really ramps up when behind when ahead He gets only 50 additional gold on kills, which I think is fair from that perspective But yeah, the obliterate so there's a little word when when I had it's yes When ahead he's only getting 50 because he's theoretically killing the enemies, right? He's claiming their bounties Somebody's going and getting a creep bounty somewhere else and then shows up He can still gain that advantage even if he's ahead, right like it's it doesn't negate that Just just because he's ahead already He's not going to keep getting those additional things with the creep bounties also in the game It also puts a lot of pressure I think Given that he gains that just like with Draven you want him to get the kill Like you do not want to your support stealing that kill because that's that I could already see the all caps Somebody stole the kill that would have given him huge stacks and given him like all kinds of gold income and all that stuff it's all Some shenanigans there With the correction for you guys Oh, did it so it is 50 it's a cap on damage on Oh, thank God. Thank God. Good. Good. Good. All right now The secondary ability scar This is E effect Revenant launches a dark projectile that marks the first enemy targeted hits dealing Much damage physical damage and applying a scar the last for five seconds the next Instances of damage dealt to this target by Revenant apply 5% stacking slow for 1.25 seconds and deal 15% bonus Magical damage. So now not only are you dealing more damage to somebody hit with scar, but you're also applying a slow to the It only be good for Revenant I think the interesting thing with this ability is it doesn't So the scar lasts five seconds and then the next six to ten instances of damage, right apply a stacking slow Uh When they're done to when they're done by Revenant That can be obliterate. So you E and obliterate and then just 10 stacks slow somebody Because it's he's got 10 missiles. So if they're by themselves any EQs That's going to be a 10 50 stack 50 slow for a 1.25 seconds And they're taking 15 additional bonus magic damage Yikes A lot in one moment and I realize that's only if they're alone Right then you can get all 10 out very very quickly. Yeah, no minions or any of that stuff I also I'm a little concerned at how much Uh, that his damage is kind of being mixed Right, he's not just a yes He's going to be a basic attack carry through and through his his cute as physical damage his edas physical damage Except for the part where his edas 15 additional magic damage on hits So now he can do both damage types in a single ability because again At least the way he has it too has 75 magical power. Yeah, but it but it does physical damage It does physical damage. It scales with magical power So if I built if I wanted to go ap Revenant, I could still be doing damage. Yeah But it's still physical damage Which is the way he was in paragon people either built him for ap or ad and it just matter which The ad I think the crit the crit damage revenue was a little more Was stronger a paragon, but the ap was much easier to use for new people But to me then with that e scar if he lands the full obliterate on somebody now that obliterate is doing 15% of its damage Or 15 bonus damage as magic damage on top of the physical damage So he's going to be able to apply both damages and a single ability and that concerns me Because that can very quickly get harry with kerry's already doing mixed damage a lot of mixed damage in predecessor This gets very concerning very fast. It's a slippery slope Uh, his alternative ability is rmb health our rounds Revenants fourth shot always critically strikes as well as building 6% Uh, 0.5 per remnants level of the target. It's missing health as bonus physical damage Revenants critical bonus damage is modified to 125 130. It's just his crit multiplier goes goes up or you leveled it So yeah that that fourth shot it's always hit hard and it's going to hit hard here and um Especially if the target's already low, it's you're going to see a lot of people Getting surprised by that fourth shot. Just really deleting the rest of their health bar Yeah, absolutely. We already see that in uh perg on the overprime. So I mean it's just going to be another instance here honestly The thing before we move on to his ultimate two things that I just thought of one He can build astro catalyst Which means he can get lower reckoning, uh, which because now he scales off a magical power with his q So if your god help us that he's we're going to get astro catalyst Uh revenant going through But also maybe nobody was thinking that until you put it into their head And jelly knees typical jelly knees speaking evil. Nice job. Nice job jelly We're gonna see revenant alts coming through every five seconds now because of uh astro catalyst the other thing about this is His rmb talks about his fourth shot always critically critical striking and add the active always reloading his hand cannon If I don't know who revenant is I have no idea. He only has four shots Nothing about this ability description tells me he only has four shots Yeah, that just says that the fourth shot always critically strikes And that I can read there's some reload mechanic I I think if it was a normal hero not having the left mouse button. Yeah, space attack whatever move on with revenant And based on the kit that we're seeing here I would assume he has for the four shot mechanic You need to tell players that that exists Don't let us just the people that know know and the people that don't come in and go like how how does this work? I didn't know that this was a thing Gotta tell people that this is a mechanic that exists on this character in this patch notes Uh, his ultimate ability reckoning the reckoning Uh, rena pulls himself and his target into the nether realm For six seven or eight seconds rooting the target for point point five seconds Killing his opponent inside the nether realm will double the bonus gold gained from bounty hunter Yes, jelly. Okay Uh double the bonus gold gained from bounty hunter He gets plus 25 for every stack of bounty that they have In our example that was an extra hundred gold plus the 50 that's 150 if he kills them in his ult he gets 300 now Excuse me So plus the 400 that's 700 gold for a single killed man. This guy's just gonna be insane. Yeah If yeah, if he if he can get those kills, um, again, I think we're going to see with High end. He's going to be super dangerous low end You're going to see revs alting people so that they can just get away instead of getting killed, you know I mean 100 But yeah, he looks like he's going to be strong play this revenue I think it's fun that he's an economy base hero like his his entire kid is kind of Uh, very economy focused. I think that's kind of cool. Um Not much different from his implement implementation in paragon, which is fine. And um, I don't know Things are going to shake things up. He's going to be a fun adc to play I do agree with that. I mean, um, and I was talking to the guys already about this But I uh, I would I'd hoped right when we talked last week that there would be some kind of new Something right something sparkly and shiny to, you know Make revenue feel more updated and you know, all that stuff. Unfortunately, we didn't get it And I'm a little bit bummed and I kind of threw a little bit of the shade towards the devs on on twitter And they responded wonderfully and kind So if you guys are following me on twitter, you can go and see the the reply chain on there It was pretty cool though that they they're aware that they want to make updated Champions kind of like what they did with decker. Um, but it's just currently not feasible. Uh, they want to just get as many Um, you know champions into the game as possible As soon as possible and um, but they do have some plans to Go back and rework champions some of the old champions as needed. Uh, so it's it's uh You know a bit of a bittersweet thing It's cool that that's something that they're still very much aware of and they want to you know Make adjustments for at some point, but I kind of had hoped Because you know, we were I just Listen, I said this last week, but it's like, you know, this this isn't this is a new game using old game assets I kind of want a new game that still kind of hits and touches on You know, the beauty of the old game, you know, still keeping the themes there that we all know and love But just you know updated to today's standards That's that's also how I would look at it because I want I would imagine I'm not alone that even people who miss the old paragon would love to come back to seeing their champion But it's you know Feels new and fresh and all that stuff and it's exciting to kind of relearn a kit versus right now It feels like if you played revenant back in the day You're going to take maybe three or four games and you're going to be right back where you were And you're going to be popping off and all that stuff and then while that might be fun I think that people do sometimes crave a challenge having something to kind of learn and grow with Um, and so I had hoped like, you know, I think you were one who talked about that when you were relearning decker That having all the the new buttons to press kind of was exciting and fun Because it it just was different. It was it was something new to who she was and so I think that's That doesn't apply to everybody though. A lot of people just want paragon back It is completely original form with zero changes whatsoever. So I get that and I respect it too. I just I'm not one of those guys. Yeah None of them are mine. None of them are mine We want a major improvements here profile tab and early access Icons so we now have a profile tab so you can change your icons around Um, it's a small update but necessary and it's uh another step towards them becoming a more of a complete game So this is really good to Creep score bounties. We thought we already discussed this a little bit more Basically, it's So if you get ahead in a kill streak you get an extra Gold bounty placed on your head. So if somebody kills you they get that extra gold Well, they're going to be doing the same thing if somebody is Significantly ahead of everyone else in creep score. So Where I talked about it a little bit you guys have any uh Any thoughts on the creep score bounties Again, I just think it's a good thing to add. I think this lets you show your Priority in lane of what you were doing you didn't necessarily get kills But you farmed the hell out of your lane and pulled ahead in that regard Right, but it's not so much so that if you just stomped out the other team There's no way for them to get back in the game Uh, this this was my favorite system change, right? Like I think that some of the balance changes are really cool And some of the quality of life stuff that they're going to be adding are also really neat But this one at least as far as like a system in game that we're going to start feeling immediately I was really excited because I think it'll help again with the economy Boosting players to get you know item unlocks a little bit sooner or unexpectedly And uh, and that's going to change the way the game feels unless you know It's just a chimera getting to take advantage of every single gank because He can just do whatever he wants in the game And uh, you can't do anything about it and he just takes over more because he gets more gold from killing people Who are just farming Um This next change I think is really really good a new post match screens Right in two post match screens at this update the first is a screen that will allow you Add players after a match one art start grouping will up with some teammates that you enjoyed playing with after a great game The other new screen is a post match statistics screen allowing you to dive deep Juicy statistics for last match. This is huge. This is uh something we've really been uh wanting And we're finally getting it as um because right now you just it's either victory or defeat and then Back to the landing page out leveling and that's it. Yeah so This is really good. Do you want to draw our attention to one of the juicy stats that's on this? Revenant did 40 000 damage and nobody else broke 10 k except feng mal And then the screen below they show the the names of people like there's a part of me that wants to believe Like this was a bot match that they took revenant into and they're like teasing bots Right because bots are notoriously terrible and revenant just went in there and smashed the game. No problem Fine 40 000 damage move on but then they have all the names in the next slide down and i'm like wait a second How did you guys only do a fourth of revenance damage? I have so many gideon did 455 damage to heroes gideon. What are you doing my guy like you? That's one ability Well, they break it down from the physical damage to heroes magical damage to heroes true damage to heroes. That's kind of cool I think this is my hope at least is this is one they use this as an example But this was one of the games where they were testing stuff out for revenants kit and he was just getting a pop off Basically for free. Yeah, uh, that's that's my hope because otherwise this is there's some doom on the horizon boys Now that man who's mentioned it. I did not realize it was the separation of heroes I thought it was just damage to heroes and I was like that stat line is wild. What the heck But yeah, of course of course gideon didn't deal much physical damage to heroes. Yeah Yeah, that's pretty cool. I like that Um, there's something I think they desperately needed this is going to make the game just a little bit more fun It's just so much fun to look at those graphs at the match. Mm-hmm Uh Weekly leaderboards each week. We'll be sharing a leaderboard showcasing the top 100 players Initially, this will be shared with social media But as we continue to develop the feature We plan to integrate it directly into the games so the players can easily compare their rankings with others To qualify for the leaderboard players must compete a minimum of 10 games per Nice. I mean this is cool. It was a test game for those stats I would like to clarify that rubo was playing the ricketer who went three and twelve that game Whatever you say The same thing so I'm glad you got to it. But uh, yeah, no, I It makes sense that it was a test game. Um, but you know confirmed ruba's bad at the game. You know, yeah, absolutely Okay, ruba, whatever you say man Um, the leaderboards I think is a cool thing It's gonna let those competitive players be competitive on a regular basis And then you don't care about being competitive. You don't have to worry about it So it's a good way of Allowing both things to exist My only concern with it is then you've got the competitive players potentially being more toxic in public matches In just random quick play matches because there's no separation of cues So you could start to see more toxicity in that regard. Uh, but it will have to wait and see. Yeah, maybe I think a lot of times you're going to have people that Think that they're even they're probably nowhere even close to coming To the to the top 100, but they're still flaming people because they they think that they're holding them back for meeting that leaderboard Like not dog. You're holding yourself back I mean, I think I'm normally the first to be like, you know, I don't want anything in the game that's gonna add to toxicity However, in this case, I think that you want to give people a carrot on a stick Um, and I think anything that's getting to showcase like hey, these are some of your top players What I hope we get to see is some of these top players are the beacons Also, like they're you know, not only really good at the game, but they're also being really good Like, you know advocates for the game as well and and creating a space that's awesome and exciting So if you end up in one of those matches with those guys, they're not just flaming you because you don't You know, aren't as good as they are instead They're giving you insights and you can be like well that guy's top 100 I I should probably listen to what he's saying. He probably knows what the heck he's talking about You know, so but there absolutely is the opportunity I just hope that more people are going to be approaching this with a sense of maturity and understand that Being top 100 is is absolutely super cool. And you're a badass for getting there But not everybody else is a piece of shit because you happen to be At 101, you know and the guy who's at you know 400 or 500 happen to be in your game Like, you know, in general, I would just say don't don't be an asshole You know realize that people are Hopefully trying to learn how to play the game The other aspect of that though is those guys who are terrible at the game and refuse to listen to people who are better at the Game and that's a whole another problem into itself. But It does look cool. I'm really excited and the next one is also really interesting and exciting to see I'm wondering how much Feedback they're really going to be gaining from this next section Yep, that is the end of match survey We're adding a short survey at the end of the match that will require you to give us some feedback On your previous game this data will help us monitor overall an individual community responses to matches On a daily basis something that will help us to understand What's going on well as well as what we can improve. We appreciate you guys Taking the time to fill this out. So the early access feedback you see it right there It's just a little star rating that you give for your last match I have a ridiculously small nitpick about this screen. Okay Uh, well two technically one. Why isn't it five stars everything you see in five stars? So it's a little weird that it's four. Oh, yeah, it is four stars my bad The stars are off center and it drives me insane. Oh, what did you say that? Dude jelly I really help. I really hope that we're not off center in game because I will lose my mind Oh, why did you say that? Dammit jelly Uh bread team if you didn't know they were off center you do now Jesus And you know what though you wouldn't be alone, right? There's going to be other people that are like Like I'm not one to notice that kind of stuff But a lot of times I'll be looking at things like man. I don't know why that looks weird like my eyes I just blame me Dumb or something and I'm not but yeah now that you pointed out though. I hate you because yeah Yeah, oh no, everyone's going to see it forever now. Yeah, that can't that can't be unseen Let's focus on on whether or not we think it's a good idea at this point in the game bad idea at this point Or doesn't matter or whatever like is there is there any I think initially it's a good idea Because you'll get actual meaningful feedback the first couple games that people fill this out Right. I think eventually it's going to become a nuisance where people just select one or four stars And just as quickly as possible just to get out of that menu so they can get in the next game I kind of wish there was a skip button Or like our cancel or something other games do is they have this feedback survey, but it's once every 10 games It's once every 15 games Uh, oh dude, trust me. I will make sure that that ui is something else But I wish it was more sporadic than every it sounds like it's going to be every single game Oh, shit And so I really hope that Yeah, it doesn't alter the feedback over a longer period of time because people are just trying to click through it Yeah, I kind of wish it was a little bit more optional to be honest like whether whether it pops up every game You know for the next month or so rather than uh, you know, like I said, if I could if I could just Hit cancel on it. It's that way. I know like, look, I don't want to do the survey anymore. I've already done it 15 times You know what I mean, or like a don't show me this and again kind of thing something like that I think would be a nice like, you know quality fix And I don't think it would be super hard to add. So feedback that you got a go guys. I don't know I can't believe you jelly the chat Okay, since you put that in my head jelly Um, how it's or if you jump while you're running into lane, this is true in both predecessor and overprime He looks like steven segal running I've never evaluated steven segal running enough to take a look at us sometime. It's hilarious. Oh my god, okay So now that's in your head next time you play out. Thanks. Thanks man. Yeah Matchmaking improvements and bug fixes. Um, let's go This processor launch we've been monitoring Monitoring the matchmaking system closely and have identified multiple bugs that we believe have impacted match quality This patch brings a number of fixes issues and we hope to Match quality as a result So the bugs they fix the bug where players would gain or lose large amounts of mmr after a match When the server failed to return the players mmr Um, fix the bug where players could join a queue and incorrectly enter the wrong matchmaking bracket I think I've done that a few times Fixed the bug where players Outside of a matchmaking bracket could be pulled into that bucket During the matchmaking process So people were just getting matched incorrectly people have been shouting about that for a while and it turns out that it is true They actually were being matched incorrectly and uh, they also improved Introduced our first improvements to the matchmaking system the party modifier Your your mmr will be inflated of the more people that you have in your party so that It takes into account that there's probably a little bit better coordination In a uh in a team So, um, yeah nice Yeah, as it should absolutely You would you would hope that that's a day one type thing But i'm glad that it's there now like it doesn't matter that it wasn't there before it should be It's it's something i think that should be in every game especially when you don't have a competitive game where you're just in quick plays It's just ridiculous that five stacks can just run around stomping on people who are in solo Cue duo queue maybe you know what I mean? Um But yeah Hey, uh, they're also making improvements to the penalty systems so for if your afk's and your dodge penalties are going to last uh longer and um And they're separated now. Yeah one system. They're two separate systems with separate penalties. Mm-hmm, which I think is great Yeah, I got zero problems with this I think my only issue is the uh severity creep. I kind of wish there was less options and it got severe faster Yeah I think so I especially the the um the afk penalty is Maybe okay, I would probably cut out the whole two six and 20 and just go straight to 24 and 48 after the hour one Like you like to me it's like if you're a fifth six time doing it and you waited an hour Or whatever and you it's like on a fourth. I know dude. You just don't get to play the game You know, you're you're obviously causing problems. No, I just how I feel no, I agree I agree the dodge cue penalty. I'm more okay with having a lot more tears because dodge I hate dodgers. I get it why people do it, you know But a lot of times what we're seeing and and maybe I'm crazy But one is that someone doesn't get the role they want They don't get the champion that they want or whatever and so like well I'm just gonna leave and for everybody else who is there and ready to play the game even if they got You know a random position that they didn't necessarily want but they just want to play the game It does suck that you're having that now you're back into the loading screens Now you're back into this now you're back into waiting and so it does cause a disruption of where it's like, you know What dude? This is like my fifth dodge in a row. I don't I'm just gonna leave it I'm not gonna play right now like and I I don't think I'm the only one who's experienced that before We're just so frustrating having people dodge because they didn't get to play Countess when countess first came out And they dodge and it's like okay, man like come on bro like don't be I don't know that's that's my take on it I maybe I'm ridiculous, but I kind of wish they got rid of some of the tiers made a little bit harsher faster I know it's over a long period of time seven and 14 days respectively But still it just it causes more disruption and frustration for people And I don't think those people should be getting multiple chances to be able to disrupt games where other people are playing I agree like dodge q fifth and sixth of the same penalty. I wonder if that's a typo or if that's intentional Yeah, um an hour So if you do it after the fifth time you do it again, you get just the same thing that doesn't make a lot of Safe for afk second and third or about 30 Oh, we at what? Yeah, that seems like if you're doing it again that that should be the you should just move on it shouldn't give you a second opportunity Uh, well, let's move on now to the combating toxicity chat moderation update. Um, just looks like they're trying to uh The bat toxicity a little more by imposing a snowballing sanctions on people that are Are constantly toxic. Um So this is just from So report people if they're extremely toxic and hopefully uh, they're their new chat moderation team will be able to Take care of it. Uh, this is something that's always a problem in every MOBA and it's something that uh Some people will say just get a tough skin and get over it That's like asking people not to get pissed off when somebody says terrible shit to them like You're asking me to be a pussy about this. I'm not going to do that. You know what I mean, but That's me to not get angry but whatever. Um, so yeah, I'm happy that they're doing this I will mean of course. I'm very happy about it But I think it's even goes beyond just like the the frustration that I might feel I I'm I get tired and I've been This is the other thing I will say that I've been this guy, but There's nothing worse than a guy who is afk in the fountain keyboard watering. Oh god. Yes Just just talking shit like, you know make more coffee be right back Yeah, just flaming whoever and doing whatever like it's just like bro. Just play the game. So it to me if it removes the You know keyboard warrior that wants to just sit in the fountain and bitch and moan about everybody else Not playing the game the way that they feel like it should be played or whatever It's like dude right now. First of all, this is just quick play. There's no comp and I get it I get frustrated. I get mad. I get annoyed when someone's not playing to what I would consider a normal level However, I very rarely and I'm not trying to hold anybody to a standard that I'm not at Get in there and I'm going to disrupt the game by sitting there Typing a huge paragraph to to flame somebody else who's not playing the way that I should think that they should be playing or whatever So uh having this in there just for that alone to kind of limit some people spending x amount of time Hardcore keyboard typing and just getting back into the game because they might get you know banned for it or whatever Or have you know some kind of sanctions to get them. Uh, I think it's fine like to me. It's More than enough. I think that that Getting rid of any toxicity in any capacity The next thing they should iterate on is adding reward systems like for people who are playing consistently You know adding in value and trying to help people and blah blah blah using the systems Like chat that are in place to try and help people not cause disruptions. Um, but for now Punishing the more toxic is I'm fine with Yeah, and I think this I mean this goes into what we've talked about a couple weeks ago Or maybe it was even last week about have asking predecessor and ometta to Share what they're doing to get rid of toxicity not just yep. We're handling it Right now it's this is the system that in place. Here's the penalties. This is the system here the penalty This is the system here the penalties, right? Like so you have a very clear understanding for both toxic and non-toxic players Have a clear understanding of what the levels are Right, and yep, I crossed the line. I I received the 10 hour ban. I yep I reported that guy He's going to receive the five minute ban whatever it's going to be right like You have a lot more defined areas or toxicity now that people can act on and know how to act on Big true I also wish and I don't know if it'll be present in this but the feedback loop if I reported somebody And I get a something coming back like a player you reported was found to be Disrupting the game or doing whatever and and some action has been taken. Oh, dude There's no better feeling than knowing that you were like Yeah, dude, I did the things I you know, I tattled and the guy got put in time out good You know what I mean? Like there's because like, you know, you guys make fun of me all the time But like we'll be in some in chat you guys can make fun of me too But like we'll be in games and I'll be like do that guy's doing some shady shit And you know, but there's no way for me to prove it, right? I just report the guy and then hope that one of the you know The dev team takes a look at it and if a punishment comes down I have no idea So I never get the satisfaction of being able to go back to these two and be like Hey, I reported that dude and you know what? He was cheating. So suck my nuts Report though, there's no way Hey, listen, if I feel this is my thought process and I and you guys can agree or disagree I leave it up to the devs, you know, I believe that there's a way for them to be able to see it If I think some shady shits going on I'm going to report it because the people not reporting it as how shady shit continues to be able to get past And get continue to be in game. So Snitch justice viking that's right cat. I agree get them out of here. All right Good, I was going to move on to the other improvements unless you had something else to say. Nope, you're fine Here's Jedi's thought process that guy's better than me. He must be cheating. No, no, no, no, that's not true Every game we play my god every game we play now who's being dramatic This guy lands a shot that you don't think he could have. Oh, well, he must be cheating boom report him Vx Don't worry about vx. You did it a fucking uh Most of the portals that we play I do it in every game that has a if it has a report feature And I think something shady is going on a report. Um, what's up? To me There's no reason not to if you feel what are they they're not going to punish somebody that's not cheating You know, they're going to take a look at it. They're like, you know what that guy's not cheating So they're not going to do anything. I've been my report times in apex and I've never once cheated in apex And that's because I've been reported falsely. So I disagree with you entirely. Oh, well All right, so good, I guess I don't know what to tell you Other improvements updated the decal from maroc static trap Added missing sound effects to the allied corp when it's attack updated decker sound effects for basic attacks rocket boots footsteps and stasis bomb Okay, I mean, we're not going to know what any of this looks or sounds like until Tuesday, but uh Uh, change the visual effects for when the player dies added hero names. I'm not going Like I said, we'll figure it out. Uh, once Uh, tuesday comes, uh control the sport now includes scrolling with left and right triggers when using the virtual cursor I don't know what that fuck that means I assume it's controlling like uh going through menus Guys the virtual cursor, uh, the big one that I wanted to look at there though actually is the Added a new sensitivity setting called ads And I wonder if that where that applies in downsides Um, exactly right like it, but it's a new one. It's not renaming a previous one So I'm not sure I'm like the only thing I can think of in the game right now that it could apply to is murdoch ultimate That when he goes into murdoch ultimate, he has a different sensitivity setting for that ultimate compared to normal look sensitivity Um, but I don't know where else it could be applied and maybe it's for a future hero we don't know about but That's like my tinfoil hat brain going through right, but Currently I would imagine it's applied to murdoch alt and nothing else. Um, maybe sparrow snipe too Maybe yeah Oh no knock when it comes time. I don't know. Yeah, it'll be interesting. We'll find out. I know So balance changes count us Recommended jungle start updated to blue buff from red buff. I think that's cut really cool. Haven't I hear a specific path for a jungler Yeah, and rubus has targeted abilities in general murdoch snipe is a good example. Okay. There you go Yeah Thank you ruba But yeah, I just think that's just cool Uh crunch re crunch passive healing no longer benefits from damaging minions. I think this is a great change Uh, he have way too much lane sustained for what he is to fuck crunch I dude 90 percent of my frustration playing pred has been against crunch and I've been talking about crunch You know for a long time Oh, dude, I was over the moon when I saw this. This is my favorite balance change. It's huge. It's huge Go ahead jillie. I'm so excited I mean, this is a perfect thing to do because chimera can't heal off of lane minions So crunch shouldn't be able to heal off lane minions If that's the standard you want to set perfect set it across the board And I I think this is the perfect nerf for crunch To be brought into a good state where he's not just sustaining through lane non-stop once he hits level six But is able to actually be outplayed back and forth. No He's nice as the solo lane guy here He was a nightmare to deal with in solo lane just a nightmare And I didn't enjoy playing him so I wouldn't play him against so I because I just liked grucks I thought grucks was super fun to play. Um, but it just if he gets at all fed there's I could never compete with him. He just out healed any damage that I could put out and it was so so frustrating frustrating So yeah, huge huge could change Uh, the fey, um, we're giving players a little more counterplay to phase ultimate so that That we can increase the power budget of our overall kit This will help fade to have a bigger moments even without using fly trap It also means she has to pay more attention to our pull downs and ability to escape that fly trap Let's go all the way down to fly trap now the uh bug fix Now correctly deals increased damage based on its level technical break distance decreased from 1750 to 1100 So you could break her tentacles if by getting out of it Um at a certain distance and pull delay increased from 0.6 seconds to 0.75 seconds So now you have even more time to get out of it. So there's just giving people more time to get out of fly I wanted to say something about this not specifically about fey, but this is a really good example I love their description of the changes and why they're making the changes in their hope for the changes Because I know we've been giving them a little bit of flak on some of the rewarding and stuff like that so far in the in the thing But to me keep this up boys Like it devs that are still here and listening whoever wrote this or whatever give them a pat on the back because this to me felt like A perfect way to describe how I would want if fey was going to be Adjusted or nerfed or however you want to put it or or buffed even I like the way that they're coming at why they're doing it the way they're doing it Like we want to remove the power of her ultimate and feeling like that ultimate is the only thing that she can really do to Take control we're going to give some more power in some of her other abilities But also give outplay for her fly trap. I think that's Fantastic if you have a fast enough trigger finger to be able to flash out of her ultimate You should be rewarded for it or whatever other movement abilities You can you know get to go off in that time frame because there's nothing worse than feeling like man If I had just a half a second longer, I would have been out of that thing And why why am I punished because they're peeing is slightly better than mine or whatever Nonsense people like me will make up for why they got caught in an ability This is great I just want to say not only just the changes But I think that the descriptions because they do it across the board on this in this section I just wanted to praise them Personally, I think it's amazing the way that they came to the decisions and and their thought processes behind the changes Okay Her bramble patch base damage changed, um So it just changed it to where that her early bramble patch is going to deal more damage later It'll deal a little bit less harvest nettles Pretty much the same thing with harvest nettles except it's just an increase across the board for the base damage But the scaling has been decreased from 65 and projectile speed increased from 11 1,000 to 12,000 She definitely needed a projectile speed so in her harvest that was just way too hard to hit So, uh, I think these are overall good changes for fey. I like them Her ultimate was just way way too powerful that fey was just a little floating ultimate. That's all she was Yeah Gideon would make her laning phase a little bit more fun too Because just because you don't have ultimate yet like maybe the other abilities didn't feel as rewarding This might make it feel like your laning phase feels better. I don't know though. I didn't play a lot of fey Just on paper for Gideon base damage increased, um Just across the board, but the scaling decreased from 70 to 65 Or is q that's his rock as void breach is a straight rock Scaling decreased from 60 to 55 cooldown decreased um from nine seconds to uh It decreases but as you level it up So even though they didn't increase the base damage of void breach They've decreased the cooldown as you level it up so you can void breach a lot more often. Yep uh howitzer Overall zoning potential has been very oppressive especially combined with his ability to nuke out individual targets Or keeping his slow grenade damage relative but decreasing the amount of grenades placed So the players can more easily navigate around or through them There was r2000 missile decreased r2000 missile delay after firing by 0.2 seconds I'm assuming this means that it's not going to come out as fast No, it decreased so it comes out faster. Oh, okay. Not bad right decrease the delay. Yeah, yeah Uh slow grenade is rmb total amount decreased from 16 to 11 Uh grenades out now have a tighter formation. The base damage has been increased across the board Scaling has been increased across so the uh grenades will deal a little bit more damage But there's less of them in a smaller area. Yep. I think that's a great change 100 Lieutenant belka, uh, probably my favorite mage in predecessor right now Belka felt a little too clunky after casting her seismic assault So we're letting players move and cast a little quicker after casting to help her feel a little less A sitting duck fishing for big stuns Our seismic assault q bug fixed description fixed decreased lock out by 0.2 seconds their void droner e 20% scaling now correctly applies to the Just overall buffs for belka, um that that was the one complaint I had with her is that after you Use your uh, your stun. You're just locked into place for a while. Um, yeah, nice change items, uh tier two item alchemical rod, um A passive mana per stack decreased from eight Four so you're getting less mana from this one. This one builds into An item to a bloodlust Item renamed to blood letter this bloodlust the bloodlust shared its name with grux's passive meaning it was Overdue for a rebrand player should now be able to better understand which Sure, just a name change to clarify things So tier three items the ones that we actually care about mind razor Uh passive renamed to arcane strength from arcane power They did this because uh this item does indeed stack with vanquisher We're changing this passive names of the players who came from games where the passive names This can better understand this interaction And astral catalyst. Oh A spell slinger passive uh description now correctly states three stacks four stacks I thought they were going first item, you know, as long as it's It's fine. I thought they were going to like nerf astral catalyst, but They nerfed it last patch So now it yeah, yeah, they did a little bit that you're cooldown refunds instead of 25 So it takes five to get it up again, which I think is good. Yep uh azure core, um, this was the one that uh The first one we covered the alchemical rod built into Um, the manner for stack decrease made to force you to get less this one A combustion mana increased from 200 to 300. Uh, they did this because combustion felt, um Poor to pick early because uh, it just your your lane sustained wasn't there because you had less mana if you had combustion So a nice little change Life binder again a life binder again felt a bit too niche to fit it to any builds reliably Instead we're looking to enable magical bruiser builds Giving them a new capstone option This newly improved life binder should find a solid place as a third or fourth slot for mages That built a bit more durable with items like world breaker and cream binder It also helps give seborog a new offensive option to go into when he gains a magical power increased from 50 16 magical lifesteal reduced from 15 10 penacity removed add in 10 ability haste Uh recipe changed That's just the uh component items for it Passive changes removed leech passive new passive final blonde gained 0.5 bonus health Ability haste per 50 magical power. This seems like a more of an ability haste item now as opposed to In less of a lifesteal item Yep, which I think is a great change Kind of a weird name for it though all the help you can get I don't think so wrong that then We'll police up rocking the offline man goose and come Golem's gift we're looking to shift some of golem's gifts power into its haste over raw power and armor This should help it feel better as a more utility driven item in the final couple Lots from ages magical power decreased from 70 to 60 ability haste increased from 10 20 passive renamed from our Artillery golem to stone skin Stone skin passive total magical power and physical armor decreased from 60 30 and that's that 40 to 60. Yeah show That's lost per physical damage is has received decreased from 10 to So again seems like they're uh putting a little more emphasis on haste over our other option A blivvy crown a blivvy crown was a bit too catch all in its previous capstone form It also had no downtime as a spike and so we're transitioning it to still be a strong general use item but with a burst damage focused in each I should now find a more specialized niche for heroes like fey and belka Who look to blow a target up quickly during particular windows of opportunity Annihilate magical power bonus decreased from 35 to 15 percent. That's crazy new passive oblivion Your next instance of ability damage against an enemy hero will deal an additional 8 of their current health As magic damage and increase their magical damage taken by 10 for three seconds on Well down so yeah that Their goal here has been achieved. I think uh, yeah, instead of just getting a flat overall increase to your magical power You get um to a lot more burst opportunity like this So i'm excited to use this item I still think this item is going to be taken by pretty much everybody. Yeah, but uh, I think this is a good change for sure It's going to be the age of the mages for sure like I think all the mages after these changes are um They're gonna probably be pretty strong great good more squishies for revenants to kill I mean sure that's if he doesn't get blown up in one rotation. You know what I mean? Yeah Yeah Let's see how he gets that ultimate off when he gets bounced up by belka into a bomb and then Captain with neural disruptor and he's just dead uh Prophecy the uh bug hasty passive the uh bug fix collection description fix 75 to 60 Tainted scepter most tainted items tend to naturally scale or have a scaling of some form that makes them generally applicable across a game Scepter as true damage does Somewhat naturally scale, but this scaling is fairly minimal relative relative to others We're adding a small magical power scaling to rectify this The malice base damage per stack decreased from five Malice one percent magical power per stack scaling You just get uh some more magical power with tainted scepter, which is nice Uh, I like to see people Kind of guided into building these anti heal items because uh, you don't see it enough You see people complain about chimera and rampage, but you don't see people building anti hills like what the hell man Viper fixed item description bug fix gives the proper amount of physical power from uh 50 50 from 40 Leviathan keeping our anti hill item names to a theme item renamed to tainted bastion To be honest, I didn't know leviathan provided anti All right, and I have built into leviathan before This guy Bug fixes. Okay. Just a whole bunch of bug fixes. I don't want to read all those bugs Whole bunch of bug fixes that did any of them catch your guys's eyes? You were Reading through these. I don't think I still think I've read through every single one of these bug fixes Too much And I just that's for me man. I don't notice that many Bugs and predecessor. Anyway, so it's not like I was on the lookout for a particular bug to be fixed. So it's like, uh I just wait for one of you guys who likes to read nerd stuff to tell me Hey, that bug that we complained about is no longer in the game I'm like, oh cool because I even with like op that has more bugs than I would say predecessor does I still don't read through the bug stuff because most of them are like so niche and weird and off I get bored reading. It's just a wall of text to me. I'm just like give me the juicy stuff I didn't even read all the items because I was like, I don't know what any of these items are I'm just going to skip past this Uh, my favorite bug that they fixed is interesting But it's that the capped fang tooth stacks at 20 to prevent a crash in practice mode Which means that Killed five million fang teeth Stacked your abilities to a million damage. Oh, I know soltas did it. I know I did it That's funny Uh, I like this one It was I guess inhibitors were still granting vision of stealth players even after they were dead Definitely over prime would fix that one. Oh, does that over problem do that too? Yeah drives me nuts It's a Kalari nerf Yeah, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna read through all these So just overall thoughts before we before we move on to the next game here Overall thoughts on this patch. I mean, we'll have a better understanding of it What we can actually play it on tuesday, but uh, I think overall this is a good patch. Um Nothing huge I guess but I like the rearrangement of the mages Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm Yeah, I think it's going to be the biggest thing in the patch is of course revenant Lots of small changes to make things fit more in a defined area of the game rather than just a catchall Um, and I think that's a good thing. I love seeing combustion buffs Um, I want the bug back where it did like a hundred times damage instead of 10 times or whatever it was way back in the testing days, but uh Uh, yeah reintroduced that bug for me. Uh, we'll get nabash nuke and people on the map. No problem But yeah, I think overall a solid patch Same yeah, it's it's got a good amount of meat in it and so it's a it's a nice uh patch sandwich You know what I mean like it's got a little bit of everything. Uh, I think for me personally just as like a as a fan of of these Games and studios in general it gives me a little bit of hope I know it's something that we kind of talked about when these games were getting to go into early access We talked about like having a bit of faith that you know The the devs were going to be putting in meaningful changes into the game and kind of like slowly But surely ramping up and uh, and I think this kind of shows it improves it Um, you know adding in the the screens at the end so we can see stats Um, you know some of the quality of life changes that they added in obviously we are screaming for more But at this at the same time we're getting steady amounts of it and as their first real big patch I think it's successful. We'll see you obviously In game but like on paper it looks good and uh, and i'm excited to see What the the hardcore pride fans really think of it because they're they're gonna be the ones that it really matters to The guys who are logging in every single day and putting in the hours is it does this Patch really feel good to you guys, you know, not just us talking heads who are gonna put in, you know, a few games per week The only thing that I was surprised not to see in this patch And I think it it overshadows this patch is no fangtooth changes That there were no adjustments to fangtooth is going to be the same problem He has been since release and I think that is a missed opportunity At least in the meantime, you can bring down that scaling a little bit As a temporary fix to then go out to find a greater fix later on But that that's been the number one complaint that I've seen in these games is fangtooth Is just you either get fangtooth or you lose And this doesn't do anything to address that. Yeah, you think they would have done something Yeah, but um, I think that they are working on an over like a better solution overall for that So I'm gonna fault them too much. Like I said at the beginning of this um There's even if you don't see something that you wanted fixed fixed. Um, I'm sure it'll be coming eventually so Don't worry about it too much Because I don't know if you want to ban people in chat, but there's a guy talking shit about shinbi Um, and now she's whack. I don't know if you care about that, but uh, what what's going on? I figured I'd point that out while we're in transition to the next game, but you know, there's there's some uh, There's some dissent in chat about uh, who's talking about shinbi Oh man, all right, you want to say while we transition a little bit man chat you guys a bit pop it off Really appreciate you guys all being here. It's it's it's really cool to see you guys on the sunday afternoon slash evening Uh, also a big shout out to the devs that we're here answering our questions as we were talking about them Oh, yeah, guys for being here much appreciated. I really appreciate it. So On to you Uh, all right, you guys ready to move on to a thorough I'm excited about this one All right, so uh for ethereal, we got two new skins celebrating the lunar new year We're getting a bunch of skins in ethereal the game's not even in early access not even out yet So we got the uh empress malaya, which we've seen before fucking fantastic looking skin Any skin looks good on malaya. Yeah, it's hard to be upset. It's hard to be upset dude She she's she's got all the things that uh to make a guy happy. You know what I'm saying And then we've also got sure Pull it up here the new year Halea skin. Uh, this is the skin. I think we've seen being used in the game Nope, no lies man goose is incorrect Could have sworn in what truth could have sworn in one of the shorts I was like It looks like she's wearing some kind of skin instead of uh, well, she is skin in the shorts But it is not this one. Oh, yeah, it's the summertime like sundress one. Yeah, that's right summertime. Kalia. This one looks amazing Uh, the name we're calling it right now. It made changes cherry blossom kalia But just love this skin this one This has been in the works for a while And when I got the message that it was completed. I was like, yes, let's go. I love this skin I love that she has a katsuni mask the side of her head because that's what she is like She's wearing a mask of what she is Such a cool skin and like the thing there is you can see as well Is some of the visual effects may change the she's got the the pink orb there As opposed to the blue that you've seen in some of the shorts already as well Um, but overall just I love this skin Did you guys plan on doing um More themed skins like a lot of themed skins for different holidays and stuff I mean, I can't say like which holidays, but I know themed skins are definitely in the cards Right, we've already seen winter skins. We've we're seeing lunar new year skins We know summer skins exist with the summer blast kalia, right? Like there there's plenty of opportunity for skins in Parts of the year or different events of the year But I think just makes sense in a lot of ways and they're easy They're I won't say easy themes, but they're themes that are nice to incorporate into your game Right. Yes, your game can exist outside of the regular world But you can also tie it in in some ways to what's going on at the same time and it can be a cool thing I don't think I mean I have never encountered somebody who's like oh my immersion Hey, you know They don't celebrate lunar new year. Like come on, bro Like if the skin looks good people will be happy and I and I take both of these skins I mean They you know, they touch on the things that I really enjoy, you know, I'm gonna try and keep it a little bit professional over here, but uh Viking they've got good assets, you know, the assets are really solid in both of these skins Big true. I don't like you talking like that about kalia. I don't like that Big true labor day themed skins god help me I will get that like Chef daunte skin into the game if it's the last thing I do But they did it as a post several years ago before I even joined the team And he's like him wearing like a like a kiss the cook apron with a spatula in hand I want that's been so bad He's called it dad. Tay for a while Yeah, just incredible incredible skin. I love that kind of stuff I think the those are the kinds of things though that like, you know, bring people into the game and have fun with it Right. I mean we praise uh league for doing that, right? They do like a lot of the fun skins obviously are not meant for immersion They have immersion skins and you guys will too which I think are great Sometimes you just want a fun skin because it's fun like who cares man Just let it be what it is and these ones look awesome for fun skins the skin Like I always put the bar on is actually not even a league skin It's a smite skin and it's fana toast and he's just a flying piece of toast going around the map in certain Like in certain instances. I don't even know what his abilities are I've just seen the skin and I think that's the funniest thing on the planet I'm brilliant Soltas sent me a picture of a smite skin today of magusa is madusa But she has goose heads coming off and set his snakes Yeah 100 The ability for skins to be serious or fit a theme or immersive or just fun and silly There's plenty of opportunity. There's no great reason to limit yourself down to one Thing right if I'm gonna bring up the f word in here if fortnight has shown us anything It's that their skin game can be as diverse as they want and it does not matter In fact, it actually makes the game in some aspects more exciting and fun because you get you get the diversity and And it becomes its own level of immersion and ways to kind of flex on people Which again, I talked about this in rpgs sometimes having the cool guy skin And that's no longer around Or something along those lines is it's a bit of a look at what I got, you know, you don't have this I have this like it matters. Yeah, it matters 100 so, uh, it wouldn't be an ethereal segment if we didn't ask play test win. Yes I tried boys, right? It wouldn't be it wouldn't be an ethereal segment. You're correct. I tried boys. I tried. I tried All right, I can log in and try these skins, but uh, nobody else can That's uh, that's all we had for ethereal this week. Are you guys got any final thoughts before we move on to over prime? No Excited as always make sure you guys are following ethereal on socials. Um, obviously these these guys are way more Farther back in development. Um, it's always cool that jelly gets permission to show case this stuff Patreon people get to see a lot of this stuff way earlier. So if you do want to support the game directly I know that patreon is a good way to do so But if you have a chance and you don't want to have the money support the socials make sure you guys are giving it Thumbs ups or retweets or whatever social you happen to follow the team on And if you're not following the team do so it's free to you And it's a good way for the team to get exposure also to reward them Like it makes it makes people happy to hear like the feedback I think when our team hears like hey people went like crazy over this skin announcement that we showcase So, uh, if that matters to you it matters to me I think it would matter to the team. Um, if you want to support these guys, I think that'd be a good way to do it Um, the links are in the description great plug from uh, the non-employee What can I do? Uh, well, let's move on to over prime They had a major patch where they added wukong. Uh, we haven't actually discussed it on ftm, but I've I've discussed these patch notes so many goddamn times now I don't want to really go through patch note by patch note on ftm So let's uh, let's just talk about the overall impact of some of the, uh Some of these patch notes that we've seen some of the major changes. Uh, we'll start off with wukong Um, no, you want to get right into the deep end of the pool, huh? Jump into it. Let's talk about wukong We were very afraid that he was going to be overpowered and we got the exact opposite Yeah, a hundred percent Uh, and even I've been playing a bunch of wukong the last couple days Even because I played him when he first released and they kind of avoided him for a couple days It was just like, I'm just gonna not thanks And then yesterday instead I had kind of gone back onto playing wukong And there's definitely a learning curve to him But it does not make him a good hero even once you're at the top of that learning curve It makes him a hero you can choose to play Sometimes in the right situations with a decent team kind of hero That was gonna be my point I think that it he is the hero that requires so much of the rest of your team to understand what he is good at And what he's not good at You might see occasionally a wukong who comes into a team fight and pops off and gets some kills and stuff like that I don't think that's going to be the norm He needs to be split pushing that's his whole design and it's really difficult I think in in op particularly to set up a very strong split push But that's where he thrives. I think I I think that you build him as a split pusher Whichever way makes you happy to do so. I think he has multiple builds you can utilize I think the crit build is probably the easiest way In a tax beam to be able to get those turrets down very quickly But trying to build him as like a as a team fighter or anything else just doesn't make sense and you really In my opinion, you really need your whole team To be on on par with the understanding like he is going to draw pressure over here Try and take the towers take inhibs We need to be doing other stuff on the map to give him that space Like we need to be creating pressure other places If you don't have the double pressure point or even doing like, you know A one three one where you have somebody else also creating a pressure point I think he fails as a champion personally and he this is my hot take maybe For some he sucks in the jungle. Stop trying to play this guy in the jungle My thing is because his his e stacks are on spawn and and less the chance they You get lucky as the jungler that they spawn all with the the ability to be able to get your You're not gaining any benefits from it or at least every minion wave is a fresh spawn You have a chance to be able to earn that that gold. That's the other thing I will say it's probably better in your sense to keep yourself earning extra gold get those less It's get the gold don't go for healing. It doesn't make any sense You want to get as powerful as fast as possible so that way you can push lanes and that's your whole job That's at least how I have taken him. I think he can work And I think he might maybe find himself a niche And like higher elos where they have a lot more of that that communication and understanding of what champions can and can't do and right now as soon as he locks he's locked in I'm like immediately like oh no, bro I think I even started typing in the chat bro. Wukong's bad. Don't even don't even worry about picking him Um, I get though. He is fun. I will say this his kids fun to play I don't think his kids it's it's cool doing some of the stuff that he can do It's fun, but it's clunky So like the the biggest change that I would recommend for wukong is not even a numbers change So I think he does need to be buffed on his numbers just just a hair to actually be viable in more scenarios But it's the fact that when you're switching stances his q for those that don't know his q and his right click Change based on which stance he's in and that's his stance switching is his e So I have a good chat Those abilities are tied to they share a cooldown with each other So if you switch stances and you've already used right click your right click still on cooldown If you switch stances and you've already used q your q's still on cooldown And that throws off like his ability to combo And do what he wants to do a lot Because great his right click in the The attack stance or his offensive stance stuns and pushes enemies back The right click in his nimble stance is a very very very very very very short range dash and compared to over prime dashes That thing is minuscule So you're going to use the stun and knockback nine times out of ten honestly ten times out of ten Right, but if I didn't have a shared cooldown between them There's a reasonable opportunity to use both the q is the same way the Offensive q has very niche in use cases and it's pretty hard to land It does a lot of damage when you do but it's pretty hard to land in very niche in use cases The nimble q where you're air walking and going very fast in the air has a lot of use cases So you use that more way more often than you use the offensive q you separate the cooldowns Now I can do both and have some intermix ability in those ability casts That gives him more variation and makes him more viable in a lot more scenarios Yeah, also fixed momentum him air walking Above everybody and then losing all momentum and dropping straight down The worst feeling on the planet. It's the same with chain b. I was about to say that Hey, there's dash abilities into the air robert jones. Thank you so much for the super chat Um, you know if he knew he's up finally able to play a rank match You need to be level seven while in game it says level five That was one of the things they identified with the latest patch He said it's been a mixed bag of noobs. Yeah, that is whatever your place People are afraid to play competitive because They don't think they're good enough to play competitive. Yo, it's so much easier when you like At the lower levels of competitive life The problem and then this is going to change the subject since we're talking about wukong a little bit But the problem is is the uh competitive Placements you're going up against people from bronze silver upwards of gold So you are you well could be in placements. We had one me and jelly when we were playing and There was a guy who was obviously either he was a troll or he was so brand new to the game He didn't know what he was doing and And he was not ranked he was in placements because now you can see on the screen that whether they're ranked or not Right in the loading screen. So We're like, dude, you're just at such a huge disadvantage If you have somebody who's trying their placements because they hit level seven or whatever it is now And you're just like well there goes my placement or there goes my rank up, right? Like or I you know, I was about to hit rank but now because this guy's Basically a bronze player or below bronze. I don't even know if there is something below bronze fucking would You know, like I we're just in a 4v5 the whole game and and it sucks. So I feel for you Robert Jones It's it's a tough place the hard part. Oh is I also know that you get better quote-unquote quality games of like In that competitive mode, I think you tend to have people who are interested in trying to win Not just like doing, you know troll builds or troll champions or doing different weird stuff to try and just test it out Which is fine. That's what quick play is for So if you don't like encountering that then ranked is the place to go where you're probably going to get people who are taking the game a little bit more serious, but Yeah, those ranks the the placements are Rough and I think that times are super long for people who are still in placements Well, even I even me that's in promos. Yeah, we had we were getting games basically non-stop the second I hit my promos to gold It took us we waited like 45 minutes and didn't even get a game like it's wild So reaper hit it. He said simply fix just hit platinum. So you can't get placement players fair big true What right we could get right on that reaper. No problem. No word on controller play yet We know it's planned. It's one of their major system plans, but we don't Then I will back to wukong. We got off track there a little bit. Um, sorry That's so a wukong. I think It's still going to take some time for people to figure him out But I think just judging from what I've seen so far. I don't think he's unless they Make some numbers changes or do the change that jelly said having him not have shared cooldowns between stances Um, he's just not going to be that great like paragon I think we all had that aha moment game where it was like Why the fuck is our wukong never in these team fights? Why what the fuck is going on and then wukong wins the game for you by himself by 100 you're like, oh That's what he was doing. That's why we were fighting for v5 the whole time Uh, you you just don't you're not going to have that moment in Over The rotations are too easy. The only time you see that moment is suddenly wukong takes prime Like within seconds We had a game where the whole team's across the map and I was I had to back because I was low health And I was like, I'll just go solo prime while they're fighting over there and went over there soloed private real quick Move it on with my team like that easy To me, that's what he should be doing. He his whole thing should be Objectives how what objective can I take if you're playing wukong and that's like something you you think sounds like a fun way of playing the game One be communicative with your your team. Let them know like hey, I'm playing this guy to be An objective beast like I am going to be I'm trying to solo objectives I'm trying I'm going to get smite after you know on like my second or third back Whatever play them in solo lane by the way if you're going to play them Don't play them in the jungle. That's just so it's just a troll if you do but I think that's it. The other thing that I wanted to point out because we were really concerned about his ultimate and how strong it was going to be I don't think I mean It's Okay, like it's good for exactly what we're describing. I think his strengths is like if you get enough time on a tower by yourself And nobody's showing up You're going to melt the tower You know what I mean if you've got like an item or two on you in in situations where you're able to stay solo on One of the neutrals you're going to melt it. It's going to go down But it's in a team fight or in solo situations His his mini or his clones are not the reason why you're losing that fight against a wukong like you're I For everybody struggling against a wukong that you think his ultimate is absolutely broken and doing the greatest thing on the planet Builds things claw barrier and you win. Congratulations. Yeah That's the way that's the way he was against wukong. It was called thorn yomi in um Paragon, but it was the same thing I used to do that with richard all the time let him build up His stuff activate thorn yomi and then he was and then he would try to escape because suddenly he was getting fucked. Yeah Yeah Yeah, get zinc claw barrier stand in the middle of his clones Don't move out of those things let him build up as many as possible And just watch his health melt and I will say that we had that one game where uh Wukong had been fighting people in but in this one bush forever and I didn't realize how many Fucking clones he had in that bush. I dashed in a shimby to try and take him out. It was immediately set upon my like 12 or 13 fucking clones My favorite has been like you can see where a wukong has been because you just see this trail Then you're just like what the heck um and there have been some annoyances Like I think it's it's cool Like he definitely has more disengaged than he does like you know go in and engage type stuff I think most of his kid is helping him be able to Try and stay in those sidelanes and then run away when he gets focused right and his Uh his his guys whirling around Actually slow people down and they can't get into travel mode because they'll whack him every time they run by So, uh, there is some value in in in that, uh, but uh, yeah, I think robert john says I think wukong is viable just not strong. I think that's kind of true. I think that there's other There's other champions that do something close Not maybe as much split pushing as he it's probably capable of doing But can do like and and my first one is zina zina one. I think hard counters him and Can also split push with her right click, uh, you know attack scaling So there's other champions that can do the same thing and still be viable in team fights and all that other stuff that It's probably I don't know. It's gonna be niche. I hope that he finds a place though I do I hope he finds a place From being a balanced character I think if you give him the the most minuscule of number tweets in the upward direction and release his cooldowns You can see really you can see really good skilled wukong play come out of really good players But he's not going to be oppressive And I think that's where a wukong with this kit should be is that high skill cap high reward But not necessarily just winning the game outright because of it either Like it's he still needs to be a balanced character at the end of the day And I think he's really close to there if you just made those couple changes Hmm, what do you guys think about gear does gaming's a comment op wukong is sarith with a different kit literally I don't I don't agree with it personally, but i'm just curious if you guys do I mean she has an escape where she jumps up in the air I don't know. I'll think I'll think their kits are all that similar. They're both off laners Everyone's the same like I mean they're they're both the same and that they're both They were intended to be melee carries, but they're both played off lane or jungle the most part There there are similarities there, but Uh, anyway, I mean, I don't know. I think that's probably enough about wukong. You guys ready to move on Yeah, Kat just says I think wukong is a great character to play when in a group So, you know, your mates are going to deal with the 4v5 most of the time But not for solo because they won't know your game plan as wukong exactly what we've been talking about And I do agree in the quick play matches. We've had some fun wukong moments But they're kind of sparse Like like the most successful Yeah, the most successful jelly has been with wukong is when I was just fucking laying it down on shimby that one game Yeah, like I went 17 and one with shimby. So it was like The 4v5s didn't feel like a 4v5 and the jelly was just free to do whatever the fuck you wanted to And then you have the questions like well, wait, was it really jelly doing it? Or was it just the 14 and five, you know, yeah It's in me But uh, I don't know the new skins they added um, they all they added them all at once. I thought they were going to come out you know Equentially, but no they added them all at once a lot of really great skins here the dark wings Muriel is really good. I should probably pull these Stop showing my terrible fucking guang game play here Oh, gear. No, I would love to see that sheet. Is it on google sheets or something like that? Can you post it in discord or I would love to see that actually Those are some stats I can get behind Cyber wants us to move on to uh fault news, uh That guy Um, well since we're talking about the skins I think first of all most of the skins if not all of them are great Like they did do some updates for some even the epic skins, uh and made them a little bit poppy My personal favorite I have too is the sarah skin I think is now one of the best skins in the game But I also think the muriel skin is Is it's not like it's a bit of a recolor in some aspects. It doesn't drastically change her But I don't know the color combinations her helmet with the little horns coming off of it Like you did the I don't know it just I bought it today. It spoke to me like I don't play a lot of muriel But I think muriel is the best support in the game. She's also probably one of the most fun supports to play in the game I just think all of her buttons feel good depressed and there's always something you can be doing And it just it just feels good to play her having a kick-ass skin to go along with it Which I think this one is Just makes it it just adds that little cherry on top But I do think that the sarah skin is the coolest of the bunch Not that the rest of them aren't also kind of cool, but that sarah skin is sick, especially with the wings Almost makes me want to be a sarah's player and I think it almost almost makes jelly want to be a sarah's player almost Not really I've been playing I've been playing a whole bunch of sarah. Did you buy the skin? Yeah. Oh, yeah Let's go. It's got side cheek It do have the rewarder's edge. They have great assets Big true that decker skin pretty badass. Uh, low has it. I saw her playing with it. It looks really good in game I've kind of drawn back on decker a little bit She used to be one of my most played supports now. I think I just start bashing muriel just both better support Yep, 100 um Care about that So they uh, the bout okay, I've definitely felt this in the game the kill assist xp gain adjusted. So Just xp not gold you get less experience from kills than you used to and and assists um, I think this hurts The port's quite a bit. I think yeah, I think this should have been just on kills I think assists already give so little xp comparatively that now that the xp should have been Staying the same for assists and then kills should have been brought down a little bit if you're going to change xp at all I don't think this was the necessary change Of kill xp versus kill gold. I think kill gold is the more important one But if you're going to change this assist should have stayed the same because now supports are just I've seen so many games now where supports are four or five levels behind Yeah, I'm hitting level 18. I look at my support. They're like level 11 running around the map still trying to get Their ability is wild Yeah, no, I agree with that I the only other thing I could have thought of is if they wanted it to be that way because I get Like they wanted to try and slow down some of the roaming and and kind of slow down the laning phase Just a little bit more like you know and make it a little bit more isolated and all that stuff And so from that I get um and couple that with the minion movement changes that they did You know, I think that that itself at least economy wise accomplishes, but it totally butchers Supports, so I think what I would have hoped for was they buffed the uh support item to give something to kind of Reimbursed in a sense whether that's more gold or Yeah, you know some level of xp while near enemy or something like that Like not that you could take it into a solo lane and abuse it But like walled next to another enemy if you get an assist or a kill you gain something or whatever Um, I don't know if any of the devs are watching it, but if you use that idea I think that might help because supports do kind of struggle in that regard Like you just you're not you're not earning enough xp and gold to really keep up with sometimes the game And it sometimes you really really feel it like it's it's it's Especially if you're like with so on one of the games we were doing today with as muriel I was roaming so much to try and help keep people alive with my ultimate or whatever I was exactly that I was the support that was like four or five levels behind Almost everybody else while the nabash support who was just sticking around his carry the whole time Was gaining lots more experience because he was around every single minion and and uh death and all that stuff So it definitely It plays a part for supports which is which is a bit of a bummer because we need those guys to be Relevant and making them less relevant does suck I think tekima gemstone of abundance is just poorly designed in general because most other starter items support based starter items and other games Is dependent upon like you only get the benefits if your creep score is At a certain level like you can't just go and farm creeps. Um Overprime their gemstone is based on Being out of combat. So it punishes you for being an aggressive support and um And because it doesn't have that creep score definition assigned to it They can't make a like you could put something on there to where you get increased xp from from or gold from assists But then everybody would take it because there's no punishment for taking gemstone of abundance There's no creep score punishment for it so Yeah, I don't know and I think this leads into the itemization in general Just being a lacking diversity in overprime comparatively do these other games, right? Like just whenever you Look at their items. They feel a lot more similar to each other for one thing but there's just also they don't branch out to as far reaching roles or uh Things that are passives that are needed or some of these characters to really thrive and survive um Yeah, let's move on a sprint mode movement speed adjusted from 30 to 20 percent. I could definitely feel this in game Oh huge difference, especially when we first loaded in like they were all like Like I feel like I'm it do you know what though? I and this is maybe a hot take I don't know but it did make some of the movement speed Things that you can do feel more relevant like there was a lot of times where I felt like, um, you know Whether you're wu kong or uh, you know getting the muriel boost or whatever Like those things mattered a lot more If you weren't able to get into travel mode because you were able to keep yourself far Ahead of the people who are chasing you that were in travel mode. Um, it's I haven't noticed it drastically But I have noticed that there has been moments where I'm like, oh, I could keep this guy Ahead and safe versus when everybody was Like you know, um, so I'm kind of torn on it I think it there it does feel slow It does but it also I think it makes it to where those other movements Speed increases have relevancy. I think this is also an answer to people complaining that Pushing your lane means nothing True in addition to other changes that are coming pushing your lane when somebody can zoom over there quickly get it And then zoom back to where they were. Yeah feels terrible Um, and I think so it's partly because of that change I also think that this change was partly made because of wu kong You're introducing a split pusher into your game And now you don't have split pushing already didn't mean anything And now you've got a character dedicated to it that can't do it because it's too easy to get to the lanes Uh, so I think this is a a good Step in the right direction towards the lane priority mattering more I don't think this was necessarily the right step in the direction or enough of a step in that direction But it's I probably a little still too early to tell as things are still adjusting to all the changes but still I think for me what I would have wanted is a ramp up of speed rather than like you get to full speed It's a more of like a ramping up to getting to the speed That's how I I thought it would be more fun from that perspective, but I do agree I do think that you know the wu kong being added in Made a lot of sense for a lot of the changes they made to the macro play style, which is you know, definitely People being able to rotate too much also the which I think we're going to get into next the portal gates being on a larger timer Personally huge fan of this like especially as a solo laner, and I'm sure the Are the guys who are in duo lane Very happy to not have somebody showing up in their lane every minute And then after they're done getting the kills the guy can just teleport right back because the it's up already Because like that would be the thing like hey, dude They teleported over here Punish them by pushing the wave in well that wasn't really True either one they could back and get back into getting lane fast No, because movement speed was so high or they just the portal would be back up And they would maybe miss a wave or two and it didn't really matter that much now It's a bit more punishing to go through those things. It does make a big difference People get caught out more often It's I think to me all of the changes in in general Are a good thing from a macro perspective obviously we'll need more time But I think it's exciting to see that people are gonna have to pay more attention to that kind of stuff The fog was that you can't walk through that's like a holdover from the old Paragon days I don't know why they introduced it. I don't personally like it But you have some fog walls that yeah But you just have fog some fog walls in the game that If it's on your side of the map, you could pass through them freely if it's on the enemy side, you'd get blocked by I think the only one I like is the wills doesn't make any sense It seems kind of like they were randomly like yeah, let's put a walk here that you Other two can't walk through. Yeah, um, but the I am okay with the one that's on the inhibitor Right, but it goes down when the inhibitors are down Hmm, let me have let it be a thing I can play around Instead of it just being a permanent wall that I'm just screwed over by 100% I agree with that. Um, let's move on with these patch notes though Uh, like like we mentioned the portals, um Been reduced from one minute to two minutes again a good change, but I'll think it was the correct change I like a soul reaper had an idea for these where it should be a channel thing You have to channel for a few seconds to get through a portal I think that would be a much better change to the portals that way you can prevent people from going through them It's not just an ultimate quick escape that you that they are Right now Um, and then the minion balance Moomba speed has been adjusted. It's been increased Minion damage to other minions has been increased and the x Execution ratio has been adjusted from 30 percent 35 percent Super and siege minions have the size has been increased by 20 percent in minions Weapons glow so and then tower balance changes all buildings damage increased by 10 percent So these are all changes to the lane and to the macro of the game overall Um, how have you guys felt about these changes? Uh, minions. I think they did too many things at once I actually I I would say I disliked the minion changes But I think the minion changes were not as Constructive to what they're trying to do in this patch as they wanted By increasing the damage minions due to other minions and their movement speed And which means and the execute threshold is well on top of that Um, you're making it way easier for waves to kill each other and for heroes to kill waves And it also the towers shooting Arter makes it easier for towers the clear minions. Yeah, and I'll get to the thing they should be doing with that In a second here But I think that that they wanted to create the ability for split pushing to be a viable strategy for laning to matter more Yes with the increase in tower damage, which applies to minions too Um, and the minions being able to kill each other faster It doesn't do that Right if minions if they left the damage off and just increase minion movement speed lane priority increases drastically If they just increased the damage and not the movement speed lane priority increases drastically by doing both of these things You're almost counter-intuitive on both sides My minions can get there faster But they're going to take a ton of damage or be easier to clear from somebody else Right and like it just each it's a rock paper scissors battle and every time you're losing like it Or or benefiting depending on which side of the wave you're on If you're a hero on the side of the wave you benefit from these changes no matter what Whereas if somebody tried to split push you in There's no real weight. There's no real counter to that For the person that is split pushing it just goes in and if somebody shows up It's really easy for them to clear that split push out any group of minions and call it a day Especially with wave clear abilities of any kind now it real quick for the towers Towers should do consistent damage to minions always Always tower damage and hero and tower damage to minions and tower damage to heroes should be different. Yes You should not be able to it should be that they're for instance leave legends predecessor. I believe Ethereal all of this right to two tower shots and a melee and a basic attack on a melee minion takes out the melee minion One tower shot and two basic attacks on a ranged minion takes out the ranged minion that's regardless of the Damage that the tower does the heroes that's regardless of anything else if a tower is purely hitting it It's three shots or two shots Of tower shots to kill a minion via whether it's melee or ranged In overprime it doesn't feel that consistent at all and because of that damage increase now It's even less consistent. So your split pushing means nothing Or your big wave that you built up means nothing because the minions are just taking more damage And it just feels like they didn't they knew what changes to make to make priority and lane happen But made all of them at the same time Which means that they didn't give it as much priority as it could have had by doing just one or two of them I 100% agree with all of this and this is something you and I have been talking about especially Since the the second test that minions just never felt like they really Did anything that was valuable in what we would normally consider in amoeba Um, there's no real good way to set up waves. There's no real good way to set up stacking waves Like it's really difficult to get multiple waves stacked up together to crash into a turret And and I think I did a test in custom game modes with this specifically in solo lane since it's longer than mid And whether I killed ranged minions or melee minions It put six minions under tower whatever it hit there It put a just a single wave of minions under the tower which a single wave of minions doesn't do anything for anyone No, it'll get cleared out with the increase in tower damage, right? Um, it's it's it's just it feels bad. I think I mean I do appreciate and I like the Idea of the changes, but I still feel like it falls short of what they needed to have For it to be relevant and I don't know at this point I'm not entirely sure what kind of fix because there's only one tower So it's really difficult to to I guess the only thing I could think of is that you give the The the canon minions or whatever they're called. I'm sorry. I'm blanking on the name the super Sorry, the supers the ones that are part of every third wave siege some kind of like the siege ones Okay. Thank you. Um, did they get some kind of like I don't know buff to everybody else so they can start to kind of create a build because with the speed up and everything like that If you are champion you clear a wave and then the next wave is coming behind it and they are buffed by that siege Then it does something and I don't know if it does currently and if it does do that Then it's not doing it on a big enough scale the other thing and in this is what I've noticed Is that the tower damage to champions what their idea was to make it more respectful? I haven't noticed that at all. The only time I've ever really noticed it doesn't stop people from tower diving you And still being able to get away with some pretty insane tower dives because the to me I think of like league of legends where the ramp up of damage gets way high each time it hits you There should be nobody that's that's not like super endgame tank that should be able to tank three or four tower shots and right now After level six some of these champions with one item one health They can standard tower for a long time and it's it's stupid in my opinion I think it's dumb It defeats a lot of the purpose of the safety of your one tower and we only have one It's not like you have a fallback tower. You only get the one and then you're at inhibs and it's like, okay cool Yeah, not a fan. I think it's a big missed opportunity And I think it's probably what still keeps some hardcore MOBA fans away from the game because it reduces the strategic value of leaning I do think that they it's a success that people Are respecting that they're losing out on golden xp by rotating and and it punishes But it also punishes people who want to play assassins like countess who maybe can't stay in lane And need to go out and do stuff, but now they can't do that as efficiently. So it's Yeah Tell me to matter. I agree. Willy and they don't right now. Yeah, I agree It does nothing for the macro of split pushing, but it does a lot for Keeping people in their lane instead of rotating a whole hell of a lot I think now that's kind of what their goal was more than the macro, but I think they do want to increase that macro We'll see we'll see if they make some changes on ahead in the future Mm-hmm And the other thing that it changes that I don't leash when I'm mid now because I lose out on Yeah Yeah, and I I leave in solo lane faster from leashing for for the jungler I don't I don't stay as long because it's it's You're you're the chance of you giving a slight advantage now to another laner is just too high Your jungler just needs to put up with it Unfortunately because a lot of times you want to get your jungler more ahead Like give them that opportunity to be able to get an early invade or you know a faster gank off or whatever But with with the changes to minions, you just can't really afford that Yeah, I'm willing to help out my jungler, but not if it means I miss out on two minions out of a wave Yeah, and early that matters a lot. Yeah Because that means that they're gonna hit level two way faster than you Not and not even the goal just the ability of power Anyway, and uh the other big change that made the spirit the prime spirit. Um Instead of instead of just a random cycle of of prime spirit spawning. It's um One will spawn randomly at the beginning and then it's always that one for the rest of the game. Um I guess until you get spirit king sila if that's still a thing or not. I don't even know but uh Yeah, I don't really care for this change. I know some people like it some people don't I like it You like it I do I think it may it makes the trade-off of like deciding which which of the neutrals you're gonna go for which so often At least in the games that I'm in both the buffs the neutral buffs get taken within a minute of each other Whatever one whatever team one at the throw pit typically will get the spirit buff thereafter So I I think that there's now an argument to be made where you say, you know what we've already stacked Three earth spirits fourth earth is is up now. That's going to be a huge advantage for us They will get this but it's only the first You know, uh of the This uh, oh my gosh, I'm totally prime guardians prime guardian. Yeah, it's the first prime guardian Not that big of a deal, but fourth earth spirit That could be that could make our tanks unstoppable or it's a fire Right, like, you know, like so hard call, you know combat power, bro This is gonna give our carries every bit of damage that they need to carry us through the end game Um, because as we all know post 20 minutes the game starts to really fall More into a passive area having both buffs mean a lot and add a lot more Because you know exactly which one's coming from the very beginning of the game. I think is to me is significant I do see the drawbacks, of course But I think the way the game is currently it adds more value than it takes away But uh, i'm definitely open to being disagreed with because I I don't know The full shakedown we've only been playing on it for like a week I I think that this changes a band-aid fix I think the prime spirits before never felt impactful other than the debuff they put on turrets that felt always impactful Right, but the buff that your team is getting because it was random every time and you rarely got the same one twice It never felt like they added up to anything wind spirit, especially water spirit, especially Um earth and fire were definitely on the stronger side of the spirits But even still one earth or fire spirit doesn't do a ton for your team We've talked about in predecessor that when you that fourth fang tooth is coming up if your team's getting their fourth fang tooth That is worth more than prime. Mm-hmm and in uh The now this version of the spirits in over prime That is also the case where you can have certain moments where it's more valuable than prime guardian, right? If your team has been building up the right way or or has the right ones or the right heroes or whatever Um whereas before you never got to that point where I would ever think spirit is valuable Over prime underling or prime guardian Uh, I also think the change that they need to look at is dropping prime underling on spirit to do 2000 damage Yes, because if you have prime underling if you lose prime spirit, you're throwing Like it there's no reason you should be losing that if it's contested you drop prime underling at 2k Your team gets it no matter what and all the damage on the enemy way to take I think that's an unhealthy way to take the objective 100% and we talked about this before and I would be okay with this change Something similar kind of maybe not exactly like league of legends doesn't but like the first or maybe even second are random And then it goes to a consistent one as the third one. Um, that's fine I think I would be fine with that like, you know Where there's still a little bit of randomness early and then it gets more stacking for the later games And and again, you still have that same like do we give this one away? Or do we let it, you know, or this is too important and the same thing Hopefully if your enemy team is paying attention, bro, this is their fourth fire spirit. We cannot let them get that It's too strong. We have to be there to contest it or whatever Um, and obviously I know in lower and in solo queues. You're probably not going to have that as much It's going to be a lot more random, but the game's going to be random anyway So it doesn't matter. So really this is like impactful in the higher echelon of organized gameplay So I think at this point it's just a waiting game and to see how much it really shakes out and changes things And I'm sure they're tracking it to see how much it'll be Impacting yeah, they said that this could very well be a tip for Yeah, um music and affection Who knows when they're gonna fix it, but it is definitely widely reported the the Rubberband effect when you use a dash or when you use yeah, I think that's somewhat intentional though Is it no like they wanted not rubber banding, but they wanted you to go in and then the camera follows you Yeah, that's not what I'm talking about. Okay No, I mean like when you do a dash and it shows you somewhere and you start casting other abilities And then it jumps you five feet to the left. Okay, that's terrible. At least that's what I think he's talking about. Maybe not um But yeah, that effect still very much exists in the game and it drives me insane Um more noticeable on higher ping and for those of us on the west coast who can't get west coast games They had to play on the east coast and you're at 110 ping. You notice the rubber banding Let's go with the um So the the pinnacle confinement. I'm not going to go through all the nerves, but pinnacle confinement was nerfed It's kind of a mage tank item And uh sweet life another mage tank item was nerfed It was just I this was just standard builds for everybody to take these you didn't really give up Oh hell a lot of damage by getting um Some uh some magical resistance You know, they they nerfed them both. Um I still see I still build these on occasion. I still see cpp building them I just don't see them as often Yeah, it's not a must take now like it was before but it's still a valid item In the a lot of scenarios, which I think is a good way to make adjustments for sure. Yeah 100 Uh, the same thing's made of black hole, but that's not a Item I've hardly ever see built and I hardly ever built it myself. Yeah I saw it on a chimera yesterday. Yeah There you go. Yeah, super fun So all all the caster heroes, um, I'm not going to go through all of these changes But the caster is just in general just like we talked about with predecessors, but they kind of uh They increase their base damage while lowering their scaling a little bit for a lot of the casters. Um, just across the board for Overprime they increased The uh scaling but decreased the base damage. So they just kind of redistributed the uh the damage So you don't do as much damage early, but you do a little bit more damage late game Yeah, I think it's a valid change. Uh soul reaper a great point. Where is the green gem nerf? I actually would rather they don't nerf the green gem I think they need to buff the other gems to compensate. I literally said that right under. Yeah Exactly I don't think green gem is strong. I think the other gems are weak. Yeah It's the strongest option because it's the it's just because the others are terrible. They're just bad And uh, I don't think I'll think these changes to mages have really changed the game a whole hell of a lot Made it to where they can't they can't just show up in your lane and blow up the adc Yeah at level three anymore um The hero balance changes zina's leap through time Uh fully charged damage increment adjusted before is 50% now it's 30% Because she was able to clear entire waves with her right click She can't do that anymore I hate it Yeah, I'm sure you do I do I you're the only one to play zina I well, I do play a lot of zina, but the thing is is that it I okay, so I maybe I'm maybe again There could be something that I don't know and the like a higher levels of gameplay or whatever It it doesn't full clear Like at level one like you still need to earn up like items and all that stuff and No, I don't know. I I think it it was the wrong way to try and do what they're accomplishing I think it's not There is no other single ability that does as much damage to an entire wave at level one than zina's right click That is insane It absolutely I can't dispute you because I don't know I haven't looked at every other level one ability And how much damage nobody has an ability that can hit the entire minion wave that's doing that much damage The only one certainly is there's there's very few abilities that can hit an entire minion wave to begin with Hmm, and then when you're doing as much damage as you are with zina right click full charge through a minion wave Every minion at half or less. Mm-hmm wild. It's awesome It's awesome. I don't think it was a need to change I don't think zina really needs too much in the way of nerfs, but Someone was a decent one It makes you all in like, you know, don't have your escape anymore. You don't have any of any other things You're now fully halfway down the lane because you wanted to clear minions. Nobody else has to deal with that when they're trying to clear minions Yeah, just saying yeah, you know, you guys don't play zina And then her ultimate I 100 agree with this nerf they nerf her the damage on her ultimate a bit because she does go completely immune to damage during her ultimate which Has pissed me off on a numerous occasions with especially countess I will I will say this one's okay I'm more upset with the right click than this. This makes sense Let's because again for exactly that you can go under tower and get a free You know what ultimate off and maybe you don't you might get an execute or whatever Plus then you get your reset on your right click So now you can right click away and get out it was too free And those that the problem where I see it is that it drastically reduces her effectiveness in teamfights Um and and that's a bit of an unfortunate because she's an assassin who can't blow up anybody And she could only blow people up late game with items and the damage that came from from her ultimate Now she doesn't get any of that and so she's way more I don't know. She's not an assassin. So yeah, but that's what she's supposed to be is an assassin But I labeled her that that's not the right label for her I'm just telling you what it is. Okay. I didn't design the game. I'm just telling you what it is. Okay Anyway, next change muriel just overall was nerfed Yep needed 100% yep 100% needed strong but needed like not not only did those her shields are less now but the uh Scaling is also a little bit less and then the speed buff duration from her right click has been nerfed a little bit Yeah, muriel needed a nerf. Uh, it's she's still super stupid fucking strong after this But mm-hmm Not as strong which is Uh, right the only reason why I don't like it is because at least muriel was somebody who was like relatively new player friendly And people who would get put into support and didn't want to play support could play muriel and be successful at it Because her kit was good The hard part was that it made people who are really good on muriel way too good on muriel So I understand the changes but it does I think it it puts people who are new to the game or People who are playing off rule at a at a pretty significant disadvantage On what I would consider a starter champion, um, which is a bit unfortunate I don't know how to adjust it either way. I'm still really strong I really like muriel even though her right click is a lock on there's still a lot of skill expression in her kit like um Knowing when to use her slow and when to combo that slow with the shield or just use the shield naked There's there's a lot of uh skill expression really like I Real quick before we move on too far because rubo pointed out something and I I want to get your guys's take Is maybe you know more about it than I do But he said the rubber banding is a lack of client prediction or poor client prediction One of the downsides of not using gas. I'm not sure what gas is gameplay ability system system. Oh cool Does that ring any trueness to you guys because it doesn't really mean a whole lot to me It's entirely possible that that's the problem um I Okay, without knowing how their game is coded. It's hard to really make a 100 determination one way the other Fair enough. I just didn't really know what a lot of it meant. So I figured I'd get you guys to make it make sense We just know it's a problem and they need to fix it Gameplay ability system is effectively to boil it down to really really really really simple terms Please like a management system of abilities Like it that you can determine how abilities function works in terms of yeah with the servers And all that kind of stuff again very voiled very boiled down version of that but So it is a useful feature, but it's not a necessary feature There are plenty of games that don't use gas That exist in and don't have that problem. Hmm got it Uh ramp rampage is cue the the rock throw Uh, the stun has been reduced from two seconds to 1.5 seconds, which good That two seconds is way too long 1.5 seconds still fills way too long but It's understandable. It's a hard to hit ability It is hard to hit people think it's easy until they play rampage And then they realize that it's not that easy to hit those rocks So you should be rewarded for hitting them, but I'm not That rewarded a full two seconds is for fucking ever Uh murdoch shock bullet his pushback um the knockback Uh amount has been reduced which was very much needed I haven't been sent to the other ends of the earth by that ability since this patch, which is great Twin blasts mobility, um that has also been nerfed. It's he was able to jump so fucking far With his mobility. I'm glad they nerfed that Well, mm-hmm steel's wall, um has been reduced from six seconds to four seconds Which is also a nice little bit of a nerf because his wall is stupid Stupid amazing. Yeah, it's stupid strong I but with I mean you did that a great video that I got to be part of and we showcased how strong the wall can be This is a really good. I think because it forces again It's a long cooldown and only having it up for four seconds versus six seconds makes a huge difference Especially in those team fights over neutral objectives and all that stuff I've noticed it in games where it's just like, okay. I can still play It's not like hey, you guys don't get to play the game. You're just done now Like it's definitely it's definitely a needed fix. Um while still making him feel Powerful and strong in the ways that he should be and uh, yeah. Anyway, sorry um Revenant they just fixed it where his reload if you got to um I think it was 1.8 attack speed. It was just that it said reload So it was just like there was no reload at all really So they fixed that Uh that big of a deal Phase has been buffed her uh her link The uh the range has been buffed from 14 to 15 and the d-link range has been buffed from 16 to 17 I actually have seen a lot more phases in the game and a lot more mid lane phases In the game since this um Yeah, they when they nerfed that it completely destroyed phase as a mid lane option Now I think she's back as a mid lane option and people Still don't quite understand people still look at her as a support and they don't quite understand how Freaking strong she can be she as a mid lane mage. She could just blow people up her queue does so much damage And it blinds it's It's her q and her ult both. It's wild. It's so much damage. I wish rampage rock did that much damage He he Uh shimby her phantom dance um before her It's her e skill that makes her wolves circle around her before it increased her movement speed whenever they hit now It recovers hp and proportion to the damage and that uh hp goes up Or you level it up. Uh, a lot of people were complaining about this. This is No, this isn't just so so this is a huge change. This is a major change for shimby. This is uh I always I always felt that shimby was really good But um, not really for new players. Um, now this brings shimby back up as one of the better mid laners, I think I think getting rid of this was a weird choice to begin with and Bringing it back is absolutely warranted. I I'm glad it's back. I think it's still kind of meh in the amount that it does I it's It's not I don't know. I guess I want the values a little bit higher. I maybe i'm off And other people disagree with me. I don't think that this made her Super strong. It definitely doesn't make her overpowered in any way and she's still very squishy Um that 3 5% just I don't know to me it takes too long to come online to be viable You still almost always need to get archons to be able to because she to me she gets so far into fights She dies so fast. She gets cc'd once and she's dead Like it's just like I don't know you really lose that major assassin type stuff that it seemed like she kind of wants to be Um and I don't know. I don't think it really does all that much to make her more Sustainable in teamfights, especially in solos, right when you're just in a solo fight. Absolutely It's fine. But when you start getting into teamfights and she just I don't know I just don't notice that much of the healing really coming through I mean, I'm still building archons gospel owner for that increased healing But I think this is just a I think there's a huge change I think this adds just a little bit more sustain to her kit and also just early game A gadget lands a mine on you now. You just go into the middle of the enemy wave You're clearing the wave while healing up all the damage that that mine just did This not only are you negating gadgets damage? You're clearing the wave I'm surprised that viking actually doesn't like this change because this is an exact I do like the change like about muriel that this opens up for new players to actually pick up the The character and expands on the upper limits of the character But it's not necessarily trying to be the overpowered change that is going to Make her the strongest midlaner in the game or the strongest off laner or whatever it is I do like the change. I want I thought it was stupid that they took the way the healing in the first place I don't know what the values were before But when the values Previously felt like she was able to stay in the shit a little bit more and right now I don't think that she does and maybe it's you know making people have to you know level E faster because getting to 10 and 12 and a half percent that's huge But you're that's like late game now people are beefier and they're stronger anyway It's going to start to kind of negate itself as you get time goes on So unless you're maxing E first, I don't know I don't agree with mingus, but maybe I haven't played her enough But where if you get because I don't know of a single midlaner They're just going to let you go up into a wave and just do damage and heal off of it for free They're going to throw their other abilities on you and chunk you out some more So you're not going to actually sustain from it I mean unless they're trolling and they're just going to let you do that I don't have those people in my games. So I don't just get to go up into a minion wave and full heal off of it I mean you got to be smart about it like you can't Like gadget throws a mind on you the wave But she also usually throws that seek and destroy too And what she does what she throws both of those then you just that's when you step into the wave and heal up all that damage Again, just this my personal play. I'm glad it's there. First of all, okay So I don't want it to sound like I want to remove it. I do not I want I like the healing there. I thought it was it was dumb that they took it away I think that they could up the values a little bit. That's all I'm saying just not a lot. I don't want to be broken make it 3.5 percent or 4 percent at level one and after that, I don't know. I just think and it's adjustable, but I just I think it's not enough currently Um, let's move on here additional improvements quality of life improvements to smart key settings It's it's still not here specific But now you just hit the escape button and you have your you can assign all your smart keys at the beginning of the game Makes it a little easier But it's nice. It's good. It's a quality of it's a quality of life improvement If you just meet always use smart casting and get used to it, then it's fine Some abilities are just better not on smartcast Uh penalties penalty system improved if a player quits the game due to errors their penalties will be eased upon reentry Uh, this next one's a huge one log in net marble logo screen volume adjusted. A lot of people were complaining about that It's still kind of loud, but yeah Uh, this one I haven't really seen any evidence of in-game english announcer improved Yeah, that doesn't feel like it now. It just seems it just seems to me that instead of Hearing triple kill like five minutes later. I just don't ever hear triple kill after I get a triple kill Yeah, I don't know what the what the deal is there Uh, when you got your pentakill was it yesterday or was that today or yesterday? Yeah, yes Um, he seemed to be johnny on the spot with people He seemed to be johnny on the spot for some reason the announcer like he wasn't being like pentakill like whoa That was fucking fast for for the over repeat over problem announcer I got the penta after the third one was being said so it took two Ones for it to be realized but yeah Um, well, here's the biggest buff of this entire patch. Oh my god The hero selection time has been increased. You know what? I was wrong. I skipped that one You know screw that that's garbage change theme change. Yeah, winter map is gone Thank god. Oh It was so cool at first. It was so cool for like a week and then it was like Uh, get the snow. Fuck the fuck out of here It looks so bright and some more bright and colorful now We all were we I'm still not sure I we got back into game or like did they change the colors or like is it like more saturated? I don't know it makes us isn't convinced that it's been changed But I think it has I think that they improved it a little bit in some ways But it could just be that we like jelly talked about last week We played so long on that map over compared really to the the normal map that we just aren't used to it It's funny though. It is well, I'm happy it's back Yeah, it's good to be back home Um, I just think about the icons. I thought that was kind of a an interesting thing I haven't hard noticed it But if you guys notice a big change like as far as like the icons popping up on the on the UI I've heard a lot of people say yeah Uh, 100 I hate it. Actually, I thought I really I the part of the reason I hate it is something that they can fix Uh, when I ping danger ping like don't go here. Stop Big red thing right on screen, right? And that's in front of you You're seeing red thing popping up four or five times you go. Okay. Maybe I need to reconsider Now it's the normal green outline that says like watch out or careful And that to me is a way it looks too similar to other pings That now that ping is way less valuable to my team and I'll very I'll do that I'll gank a lane They keep chasing after something after I'm leaving and I'll turn around just four or five times Quickly hit the careful ping to let them know that there's something else going on And like I said, big red thing on screen very clear and indicates something is going on The same green thing as every other ping doesn't do much for me. Hmm I do think they need to still work on the pings, but uh, I I yeah Hearing you say it that way it does make sense Uh, provisibility of shield decrease on the health bar. I really noticed that Planetive mode added to custom gain mode. We witnessed that we jelly not cast um Paragon competitive league last oh, yeah last night and uh, they were able to just do a straight up draft mode They had planned to do some kind of weird coin flip Thing but they ended up just going just straight up um Jungle monster recognition reset process improved. Yes now. I'm actually Because of a comment on one of my youtube videos. I know what this is There's a yellow bar underneath the health bar of anything that you're fighting The lower it gets The the the closer it is to just resetting. So now you have a visual indicator on the health bar of the buff That lets you know the how far how close you are to just resetting that sound of it I will caveat this with that is sometimes I've gone up to these objectives plenty of times where that bar doesn't exist Oh, really didn't load this time. I entered their health bar range And so that part's frustrating or I've had at times where it's empty to start And so I'm finding the thing and it's empty, but it's not deagroing or anything like that So I'm not quite sure what's going on with the bar So it definitely has some bugs it needs worked out, but I overall great change 100% I was gonna say the same thing I think what I've noticed is when I'm coming in and somebody's already started fighting it I don't always get the bar letting me know that they've pulled it too far Or they're about to pull it too far or anything like that. So it is a little bit buggy But overall a good idea and change Uh party invite feature added to the bottom right of the friends list and main screen At church 11 of this I noticed it, but it's it's fine spectator systems improvements. Did you notice any improvements jelly while you were spectating? I hated every moment of this I'm gonna ask about that Okay, I think the changes they made are valuable However, they changed how it they changed the functionality of how it used to work Before these changes when you're in spectator mode You hit any of the numbers one through ten goes to that hero And you can turn your camera around them. No problem To see what they're looking at and then if you hit any kind of movement on ws and d Then you're the camera moves off of that character and you can fly around and kind of get a different view as to what's going Really intuitive simple way to do things the new system You hit the button you look at a character you get to see all of their abilities and items and everything If you hit ws and d it doesn't do jack crap I just you're still on the character To then in order to lose their HUD and be able to be get it further zoomed out view and oh, I was wrong When you hit one through ten you're getting their view their camera every single thing You cannot move the camera You cannot move off of them other than selecting a different hero It move your camera and actually look around and zoom out a little bit further But still being controlled by their location You hit space bar and you can use the mouse wheel to zoom in and out And then you can move the camera independently of where they're looking However, I could not quickly find a way to actually release that camera to get a bigger view of what was going on I'm sure it exists somewhere that there's a button I have to press But I couldn't quickly like the buttons that I knew were doing something didn't make that happen It only unlocked the camera when a person died That that I was watching so if I was watching someone that died then the camera Unhooked from them and I could move it around independently It that's a change compared to especially because w ast didn't do anything in the new version Still let that unhook the camera that like let me be able to detach it and actually get a grander scale of things Rather than I'm okay with the space bar thing I think getting their view versus getting a wider view but still being attached to them is a cool idea That allows for different variations But I need to be able to detach the camera to get a much larger view Especially if there's a fight going on around the prime pit That's such a large area that one person's view is not going to give me enough Perspective to be able to accurately look at everything that's going on in the game. Hmm I wonder if there's something in it and this is not to diminish what you're you're discussing but if it's like Something within the industry like, you know what we're familiar with like in in other bobas and uh how they do like multi Broadcasts and stuff like that where you have people focused on different things and doing different things And so it makes it easier. I'm just spitballing makes it easier to do that But in like, you know a solo or duo cast thing where you have people controlling it and casting It might not work as efficiently as you want it to that that'd be the only thing I could think of is that there's somehow I would have no complaints if w ast unlocked just did stuff. Okay. That's all literally the only my biggest complaint out of this whole thing Fair enough Uh in-game hero portraits changing default portraits, whatever graphics definition feature added to settings. I know this has been helping a few people out Uh, it does look um Was somebody said it looks like borderlands if you increase it too much. Yeah um Your portrait size adjusted the phase model was renewed so pay has uh Longer hair and uh prettier face. I think I think she looks great. Yeah, I think she looks really good They need to they need to fix the skin a little bit more because she's still a little a little weird in the purple skin Yeah, but her her other two more based style skins big fan Uh respawn inhibitor icons have been added to the minimap So now a respawn inhibitor doesn't have the circle around it. It was a little easier to tell when that's a weaker inhib Uh, if while you're doing things to the minimap make the health bars on the minimap actually the health of the thing Yeah Stop letting me hit it one time and it lose a third of its bar on the minimap Just because it's past a certain threshold. Yeah Uh xp gain balance has been adjusted. That's just for account xp Bug fixes, uh, I don't want to go through all these bug fixes, but it's don't Yeah They they they fix they fix count us a chlorine. That's jelly and I's main thing I uh, I want them and I know jelly's gonna immediately agree with this, but I want them to remove vision from the, um dead inhibs Revealing stealth characters stupid as fuck There's no reason you would have won that game if you would have been able to stealth We lost the game because of it. Yep. There's no reason why a dead inhibitor at one percent I'm on kalari fed really pretty fed And go in viz if the dead inhib reveals me enemy team immediately pops me pushes and wins the game Yep, and not only that but it's not just in the circle of the in him Like if you go past the little pathway that's in between the two inhibs That's also revealed and and so you can't even like stealthily get into The section it's stupid. I that it's too big and it's no no And I'm not all about giving, you know, the most broken jungler in the game more agency Um, but I I think that's dumb and I think it's only for her because I don't I don't think that uh The stealth from um Wraith breaks on it does. Okay. Maybe I haven't seen it. So it's if it breaks for her it breaks for him I haven't seen it, but maybe I'm wrong I'll trust you on it. Maybe other people in chat can correct me, but it's stupid either way All right, um, we've got any um, just final thoughts on the patch before we move on to the questions Um, no, I mean again, I think a good healthy patch another beefy one Um, I appreciate I think that this one so far in playing it feels A little bit less successful than I think the predecessor one's going to be um but Yeah, but we saw also before this patch that this was going to be a huge change to the game It really wasn't it still feels fairly similar to previous things Like I mean the the movement speed is probably the biggest thing that I notice the most when I go into travel mode It's not nearly as fast. Um, all the other stuff is just Whatever, okay, sure. It's still fun to play by the way and the skins are great, of course, but Not not anything major to me where I'm like, oh the game feels Exponentially better to play and now the meta is so different. We got a really kind of No, it's okay We're going to tell a little flat I said that it was there was a large thing missing from predecessor's patch And I think there's a large thing missing from this patch though. We know it's now coming because of messages in their discord Uh the smite changes. Yeah That the sorely missing again a large problem in the game of you're giving three four people running smite I had a game yesterday where I killed the jungler in my head. No smite on the map Yep, go to take an objective and somebody else smites it away from me and in my head I was just like, well, uh, wait, huh? And then Admin you sure enough three people on their team running smite. Yep. It's like, oh, okay Well that defeats the purpose of killing the jungler the jungler doesn't mean anything anymore if everyone can grab a smite Big true Wait, so they're talking about making the change. What are they? Did they say anything? That's no specifications on what the change is going to be but just I think honestly the only change you really need to make To make it fine Is reduce the amount of xp and gold you get from minions if you have the smite The uh destroyer stone and it's over you take over three minions in a row Right like legal legend does that exact same concept of if you have smite You get less minions when you're in lane if you've taken over a certain amount Or less xp and gold from minions if you've taken over a certain amount Yeah, yes that allows you to split push lanes and be effective for your team still and still get rewarded for that effectiveness, but not Forcing you so are letting laners take the item and just completely run away with the game because they have four smites on their team I I mean for me I would rather they just make it to where if you're Your position in game is jungler that you get another action Ability that you can use that is smite and allow junglers to have a starter stone like everybody else Give them a red stone or green stone or whatever and It is what it is to me and and let smite purely be Just to to last like to to execute not any other buffs or any other Ability power it literally just smites at a scaling based off your level like it currently does That that would be the only other fix that I would advocate for And just have no other multiple smites at all because I I agree I think it does it does it diminishes the role of the jungler and it makes it way I shouldn't have to be like constantly pressing tab to see if hey, they're They're coming in. Oh fuck all five of them have smite And they're just gonna wait while we're in the throw pit And they're just all especially in a 5v5 where it's like competitive. Okay. All of us jump in And steal alt and we all hit smite at the same time and they're just fucked and there's nothing they can do about it It's just they win the game now It's similarly just saying that prime underling shouldn't be able to use to execute other objectives It's just might is the same thing as having a prime underling effect It's honestly even better than having a prime underling on objectives in some cases They all go, okay Three two one and four thousand damage just off the map right there We've been in games together were because I've been in solo lane and I've been able to gain more xp I'm like level 12 or 13 and you're maybe level 10 And my smite is higher than yours because I just bought smite and it does it So you are now even a worse jungler than I am Like I can do more than you because I wouldn't bought an item You know I sacrificed 350 gold to be able to secure objectives. Now get out of here. They just need to change it. It's stupid It's dumb um Anyway, my overall impressions of the uh patches. I I kind of don't like it. Um I like that over prime is Different is like a more fast paced moba. It's more on the tps side than the moba side And this patch is kind of moving away from that. Um It's whatever I know I think I said this one pop but like if I want a third person Straight up traditional moba, then I've got predecessor and predecessor is fucking fantastic for what it is But when I play over prime, I don't want to be playing predecessor I want to be playing like a new Fun fast thing. So I don't like any changes that defiate away from that I mean, I still think it's there, but I agree with you. I yeah, that's still there But I want over prime to feel like over prime. I do want there to be a little bit more macro or a little bit more Like meaningful Decision making and gameplay and I want past 20 minutes to mean something because even with these changes After 20 minutes, it's still a stale off of Okay, are we all just gonna stand and you know jerk each other off in mid lane until something comes up again Because that's what it seems like and then you're just standing in bushes jerking each other off waiting for somebody to say I'm gonna go in now And then they do or someone gets caught out It's it's it's lame in that aspect, but still fun to play. It's weird how it is that way you think I'd be Not wanting to play at all, but it's still kind of fun. Anyway, I'm done with uh, we're talking about we're probably apologize We can get into the discord questions if you want to yeah, let's get into these questions in discord the first one's from I'm stranger What would you do differently as the CEO of soul leave and or omeda hypothetically with a limited amount of money and If money was no objection As well Whoo, that's a big question Uh, do we want to split it up like where we do Like pick a studio and then and answer it with money and no money I think keep your answer simple and it won't be a problem Studies if I'd spend five million dollars over no no no no 10 million dollars over there Very a very high level. This is what I would change. Okay. So you sound like you got an idea What would you do if you're the CEO of soul leave? I think absolutely they need to increase their level of communication as to what They want for their game not necessarily what they want players to want for their game What their inspiration is right? They're saying that they're creating a MOBA Great a lot of players are upset at the fact that this is not the MOBA's MOBA Right and they need they don't address that at all. We've seen them backflip on their identity Half a dozen times at this point already and I would rather see them say This is what we want to be and give a very clear definition of what they're looking for and what they're striving for And then have the community respond accordingly to that and they can make informed decisions But this like their vagueness on what they're trying to be and then backflipping every time they make a change That's pretty drastic feels terrible and the community is getting whiplashed around because of it And if you have if money was an object or no object I to me that this is not a money problem Fair enough, uh For either studio. It's a money problem, frankly What about first well for solely for me if I had a limited limited amount of money, which I don't think they do um Like jelly said, I would just stick to my vision of what I want the game to be But ranger take the lanes and go for it, um rains and go for it If I was a meta and had a limited amount of money, what would I what would I do to increase? To better the game. I think they should go um With over primes route and leverage the community to advertise for them Because they do have a very loyal community that would do that Uh, they wouldn't even have to offer rewards of the same caliber as sole leave in order to Leverage their community to do these things but start flooding tiktok with with your community's posts about predecessor And uh flooding youtube shorts and all that stuff. Um, they have access to a lot of free advertising And that's what I would do if I was a CEO of a meta is I would tap into that to that rabid Community that I have um and leverage the fan base for uh for the betterment of the game overall I mean and at least on twitter and I know you're not on twitter. They do that a little bit like they showcase Different creators and like popping off on various ones. Uh, usually every day if not a couple times a day Um, but I I agree with you. I think it would be cooler if it was like on a bigger scale Um, you can also steal a little bit. I mean over prime does like, you know Greatest moments or whatever it is every week. It seems like they put out like a montage Of of plays for thinking moments. I think meta does the same thing though Do they? Oh, maybe I've missed it and that's on me if I've missed it, but uh, you know, I agree though that there's something Um, I think if I was the CEO And money was no object. I would be um I don't care that the games are in early access. I would be leveraging Big content creators. Uh, I sent out a tweet today just as a joke Well, kind of as a joke but hoping that maybe on a off chance I would love to see somebody like shroud playing over prime Trout on like calari would probably be Hilariously awesome because he likes to play like, you know, a high Uh, apm champions when he's playing like rpgs and stuff like that. He likes rogues those kind of champions I think he would love the idea of playing a calari. I obviously everybody sees shroud and thinks Okay, he's like, you know an fps player, but that guy loves rpgs And so I could see him, you know, really gravitating to a game like over prime in the speed of over prime I don't think he would hate a predecessor. A predecessor is a lot slower And I think shroud's a high action type guy I would be paying for shroud and his group of, you know Streamers to play the games. Um, that's that's what I would be doing and same thing for uh for pred I would be looking for streamers big streamers that would match Like I don't know asman gold Get asman to play. He hates league of legends. He hates the idea of playing a mobile like that But maybe he would like to play a third person mobile. That's not smite You know what I mean to get an asman gold or somebody in that same theme Uh to come and play your games That's where I would be putting the money is in in getting you the thing that these both these games need is players It's it's a shame to me that that these west coast servers, especially are Dead on both games like it's it's really hard to get games on west coast And I hate the fact that I have to play on on 100 plus ping to play the games that I want to play Because there's not enough players playing in my area And I think that that's a that's a huge red flag Um and something that a lot of people talk about is whether or not I mean even today james we were playing on east coast trying to get into a game so you can finish your your promotion Yeah, but I think that's more to do with promos and not to do with the player base because again Right before that no problem. I know I don't know why the old almost couldn't get into a game That's a promos problem similar to the uh placements problem. Yeah, and you might be right I don't know either way. I just that's how I look at it is that they need to get some They need to get some big players with big audiences playing these games and showcasing how good it is. I mean hood massive Benefit from getting shrouded in their team to play their game I mean how many people were playing that game and it grew it was like one of the top games on Unfortunately, they couldn't fix that fucking game to make it a viable fucking video game, but But they had a chance, you know what I'm saying like the influx of amount of people playing that game And rooting for that was the thing that was so devastating about hood, right? Was it there was not only people they wanted that game to be good because it had potential, right? And I think these games have that same opportunity They just need more players. And so that's what I would do with the money is is I would do it that way That's that's my answer to this. It's a very good question But that's what I would do if I had all the money in the world and this applies to both soul leave Animate I would be doing crossover tie-ins with other IP 100% that's a good one too 100% smite benefits Immensely from those crossovers and I'd be looking to do crossovers everywhere you go 100% I think that answers that one when you guys ready to Move on to the next question. Yeah, please come from Ike the funny Regular mobs have a lot of cc a paragon never had some cc that should be added And I can't wait for both games to add them these include taunts fears trembles banishes Disarms and runks the question is do you all want to see if any heroes Can get some of these like I think grucks is warlords challenge should be a taunt Yes, I kind of agree with that it is warlords challenge, but it All it does is increases fucking attack speed Because of the the sap people's a fucking attack power and yeah Well, I know pia does a small stun, right? So he's like you can benefit from that I do wish there was more cc like variances of the cc like fears or Whatever like banishes is a really good one. I like that. So that's another fun one And there's there's ample amount of opportunity and you can see it in every rpg game of that There's all kinds of cool fun ways. I think a taunt would be super fun It just makes sense that especially like tower divers, you know Hey, I'm gonna taunt you and now you're taking tower damage. Don't come don't come under here. You know what I mean? We're gonna get into it I would like to point out that ethereal has both a taunt technically and a fear already in their game Yeah, I it's not taunt. It's charm, but they're literally the same mechanic But yes, the but more of these games should have more of those effects. Absolutely I think in a 3d moba There's a balancing issue comparatively to a top down that you have to work around a little bit more But I think overall these are sorely missed in a vast majority of cases That there's a lot more opportunity for cc to be interesting and different rather than just a stun or a slow What i'm thinking here, um And here's the storm they introduced gold and and one of his ultimates was an aoe fear and I was like Pretty much everybody was like Fucking cares that ultimate was so fucking effective because you just displaced the entire enemy team Now think about it in like predecessor or over prime If you did aoe fear people would be like walking off the edges of shit It just would not be able to get back into a team fight like a fear Just not even an aoe fear just a single target fear would be Incredibly effective. I think at any one of these games. I agree I think you could steal off of world of warcraft's pvp to an extent So they have it to where you can't get feared off of things But like because the the game won't allow you'll just run around and whatever But you'll get to an edge and if you're dumb and not paying attention that you're on the edge and hit the w key You might go off the edge then Uh, but the fear itself won't send you off the edge, but I'm okay Even if that's present in the game, uh, you would be hilarious if you get feared and then you end up going through the portal or something Hilarious, uh, but I I think that there is an opportunity Um, even two jellies credit of saying that like, you know, it could be a little bit wonky There are other games that work within the 3d space that use all those ccs And have proven to be successful steal those ideas I don't give a shit if you're stealing what is arguably one of the best pvp games in world of warcraft's pvp And bringing that into a 3d mobile like this because I think it can work and a lot of these games Come from the roots of a mod for more warcraft or for more craft 3 Where all those things are present So I think it's uh, it's very viable and I would love Love to see that iterated into the games in some capacity What about uh mind control? Yeah, dude Honestly, I think I know I see I still disagree I think that if I don't know in how it would be balanced But I I could definitely see there being value in having like a single target Mind control because in world of warcraft if you mind control somebody you don't can't move either You're you're you're stationary and stuck Um, and so yes, you can move them and do stuff like that Which is but people can you know now focus on you Hey that guy's just standing and not moving like let's just all focus him while he's Sending our ad carry running that way or whatever. I think that there's ways to to balance around it And I think it would make it would be hilarious and fun Again, here's the storm had sylvanas that had a mind control is one of her ultimates And you would you was it was a channel ability you would stand in place and mind control somebody And would you know you would think that you would mind control somebody and then you know just Walk them straight into your team But what you would do is you would mind control somebody use all of their abilities pop any of their Any of their actives and shit Just waste all of their shit at once so they were pretty much useless after you mind control them. Yeah I don't know I would see I would like to see a lot more fun forms of cc other than just stun root glow Yep 100% Um, I think that answers that question and mr. Ghost I've recently been introduced to some fault content And was shown how much deeper the core gameplay loop is compared to pto and pred My question is do you feel the games lack depth and what types of things would you like to see added to increase the depth? That's a big question. That's what I saw this one and I wasn't sure exactly That's I've even had time to think about it. I think For pred, I think if they need to speed up the game a little bit and and I'm not entirely sure exactly how But that's what I think it feels really slow at times And when it's slow, it feels boring And that's that's very Vague and I apologize it is so vague. I don't know. I'm not a dev I don't know how to get into the inner workings and make those things happen It's just a feeling right and so sometimes a feel is a feel um pto lacks I think chess style macro And it removes it moves removes people from feeling like they're playing a game that requires them to think Um, I I'm okay with it being more action oriented and fast-paced like it is But I also don't like that the game doesn't feel like A lot of what like the the macro choices don't really matter except for where it's in the neutrals, right? Like Those those macro choices matter or if you have an idiot who doesn't like back when they should so to save You know the core from dying because they're pushing that kind of stuff, right? But those are those are different conversations. So I think those would be the simplest ways I can talk about I'm sorry. It's not more in depth because it's a very complicated answer in my opinion if people were to give it But what do you guys think? Well, I think one of the things that added to false depth was their favor system It was an outside system where you would pick um You would pick two out of uh several different choices for affinities and then you could um Put favor into those affinities to to to get increased gains I like that system because um Your neutral objectives in fault Increased your favor Getting the first tower increased favor and it gave you a way to separate yourself from other players that are playing the exact same hero So my morguech was different from other people's morguech because I always took a green affinity That would give me more health the more stacks of favor I put into that affinity So I was a bit tankier specifically because of a decision that I made at the beginning of the game I think any kind of system that you place into the game that Let's players differentiate their style of gameplay with the same hero from other Players style of gameplay with the same hero and then builds upon that throughout the game Would be a great system to add to both predecessor Or over prime and I think it's the reason that fault uh fault's gameplay loop was probably a little better than both of these games are currently uh people like to shit on fault, but Um, especially towards the very end of fault's lifespan. They had a very good well established gameplay loop You didn't have lulls in fault like you do with both predecessor and with over prime Like there was always something to do In fault, you know what I mean Yeah, I agree with you. I think the biggest thing so I every time somebody says gameplay loop. I Struggle a bit because I this is not Gameplay loop and this are two different and what you guys are talking about are not technically the same thing But I will go with where you guys are going on this in that they both just lack depth They're one dimensional through and through You it's very much a math problem One plus one equals two if you're already have one and you're trying to get to two you just do the plus one Right congratulations. You're doing the thing. They don't have alternate strategies to play with really I mean over primes trying to open that up with like the split pushing aspects and the changes that they've made with wukong But it wasn't really successful. So your gameplay boils down to Laning phase for a couple minutes team fights when objectives are up go to objectives team fights end the game That is the the boiled down slightly to be sure But that is what the gameplay is for both of these games With it doesn't matter which one it is right if you understand how you're supposed to do things in over prime You understand how you're basically supposed to do things in predecessor in terms of overall gameplay of Don't die get kills farm minions go to objectives team fight win All right, like that that's the same thing for both of them. There's no diversity in how you get to that end game Uh objective of winning the game or pushing inhibitor or doing anything like that I think a gameplay loop the actual definition of gameplay loops is the series of actions That you perform repeatedly throughout a game in order to achieve the end state Which went winning the game, right? That's not the definition that I understand it as but yes Okay, for me gameplay loop is the game What is the loop of you going into game playing the game out of game going into game? Going through the loop of the gameplay. Oh, I see it more like what mangu's described Quick google search game uh Gameplay loop is a game design term that is used to describe the repetitive activities that a player will take while playing a game Yeah, so what I said, I guess yeah, um What what mangu's Also chats frozen for the stream by the way mangu's oh what? Yep For for them to be able to read not not us we can still chat still moving They just can't see it moving on their end I disagree that it's what mangu said because playing the game is still when i'm spending currency when i'm waiting in the Cube to get into a game when i'm in draft mode You are still playing the game. It is more broad than just when i'm on the map Definitely using my character Hopefully that fixed it It looks like it from from what I can see Chat was frozen just for that one guy All right Yeah, it does it just they both have lulls in their own way and and um I mean I play a lot more over prime and I and we I've beat this horse to death the the post 20 minutes feels like garbage The pre 20 minutes feels exciting and fun and that's what keeps I think a lot of us coming back is that that pre 20 minutes And I think a large part of it has a lot to do with what we were talking about at least for over prime Is that minions and pushing minions and doing all that stuff is what would probably fill the space left Before waiting for objectives to come up, but because you can't Realistically do that safely and over prime because of rotations and the portals and all that stuff You're kind of left with this like okay I pushed it up halfway and now I gotta just wait for it to come back to me do it again Because it's the only real way to guarantee you're not going to get collapsed on and then die It's tough. It's really hard or you meet ball around from lane to lane to lane, you know And that's also not fun or good in a macro state And then and I would need somebody who's way more familiar with pred and and all of that for to describe it Because I do think in pred you have the opportunity To focus more on laning and minions matter a little bit more in that game and there's multiple towers That still need to be taken so there's stuff that can be done and slows down the game progressively But the loop for me was the neutrals and the control of jungle Felt bad and it was so much more important that you had control over jungle in the neutrals that the other stuff Started to matter less you just need to gain those control points and get and win the game through that And the other stuff just kind of fell in maybe i'm off you guys can fill in for me because I don't I don't know Oh, no, I think both of them would just benefit Two from just more heroes and more items in general I think anytime you can differentiate the way people play and like jelly was saying If you could come up with more ways to get to two than just one plus one then The better the better your gameplay Because your gameplay loop will change depending on your team Yep cat I disagree with you because what you do in the game has a direct impact on what you do out of the game Or in terms of when you're on the map, right? If I win or lose I gain more or less money in the game for them me to spend on things in the store whether that be skins or Cosmetics of other kinds or anything like that that then allow me to look better when I go into the game the next time That is a game loop because I'm doing something getting a reward spending that reward going back into the game to do something How close is console release? I expect this year at least for over prime, but I'm not sure I think that they've just given up on console. They don't want console players in the games Now they haven't given up a console, but we still don't have any specific dates for we do not No, unfortunately Um, one quick thing I wanted to add since we're kind of in uh, not discord But well, it's this isn't discord related, but it's community related. Uh, I wanted to point out because I saw it on twitter Um, and I'm sorry because I don't really know this guy that well, but cm5 Tark or maybe it's cm stark. I'm not sure Uh, he's putting together a predecessor tournament. Uh, where the idea is to get a thousand dollar Um prize pool so five dollars per team that enters I think or something along those lines or per person that enters It's on twitter guys again cm5 Tark I retweeted it online Um, give it see if that's something you guys are interested in if you're looking for a more competitive Uh predecessor Style thing. Um, I think the idea is that it will be available when Uh, custom games are added, uh, which is or like the the better version of the custom games Which they they hinted at so Interesting thing about that guy you just mentioned. He's actually pretty big on tiktok. Oh, well there you go Yeah, I was a streaming predecessor after I had found him on tiktok a long time ago And I was like, what the heck this guy plays bread of all people you didn't know He's you guys didn't know start before this. I didn't but that's really not saying much I don't really do gaming content on tiktok But no, I had no idea that he was in the community before this. Oh really no shit. You have notes Note about him for a while. Anyway Uh, so I think I think that's going about wrap it up for this week, though Uh, do you guys have any final comments before we before we start shutting things down? No I'm really excited to see what the print changes are going to be. I think, um, this this patch looks really beefy I'm excited for it Though, uh, you know, we've talked about it already that the overprime ones have been just kind of meh at best for me Um, I'm hoping that there's some hot fixes that they do to kind of maybe alleviate some of the other stuff The bugs are rampant again, which is annoying. Um, But yeah We'll see that's all I got Right. I don't see All right. Yeah, this has been a long one, but I think we're gonna start wrapping it up. Uh Jedi anything you want to plug anything you work work. Where can they find you? Uh, yeah, so Actually, I want to again give a shout out to the new revised fpm discord People have been actually shown up there a lot recently and having chats and going back and forth and arguing with jelly knees about split pushers And it's super cool. So continue to do that If you want to be featured on here and get a discord question that we went over today You can do so in the discord. Uh, so, you know, keep it appropriate, of course. Otherwise, we'll just delete it and not read it Um, but otherwise as far as for me, um, I still plan to stream more I haven't because of some other stuff going on but on youtube So you can find me on the viking jedi here on youtube and you can follow me on twitter The viking jedi as well and that's that's my plug jelly knees Yeah, streaming on twitch more and I think that's the main thing yeah interact with me getting the Disagreements where you're wrong and I'm right about split pushers and And um, I will say the people that asked the questions in the um, both for last episode in this episode that we included here I will be giving out codes for free renar in overprime I've got a fucked under those codes. So I got I figured out ways to start giving these out So yeah, there you go. You get some free. I think it's the coupons for a thousand free renar Thousand free jeremy's but uh, yeah, anyway, that is going to wrap it up for this week Thank you so much for everybody that hung out with us in chat through the entire time I can't believe you stuck it out for this long. There's an incredibly long one, but uh Appreciate everybody that's watching the video But for now, this is the for the minions crew signing off you guys. Have a good one Vikings