 All the regular meeting for the City of Essex Junction City Council for Wednesday, September 28, 2022 to order. And I will call the Town of Essex Select Board Special Meeting for Wednesday, September 25, 2022 to order. Well, for being here for the City Council staff or anybody that matter. Do we have any agenda additions or changes for tonight? Great. Any additions or changes from staff? Alright, no need to approve of the agenda then. So, I'll just move right into a recognition for the consideration of resolution of appreciating for Brad, luck and Wendy is go. So, just as a summary, yes, that would be great. So, we didn't get a chance to do this at our last meeting, which was the last official meeting of Brad and Wendy acting as the interim co manager for the city of Essex Junction, which is a task. That we greatly appreciate them taking on it is certainly a a significant addition that was on to their already quite full workloads. So, we just wanted to take the moment and really appreciate the great work that two of them have done. Raj, would you mind doing your great duty of the briefing? Sure. This is a resolution of appreciation for Brad, black and when he has come. Where as the electorate of Essex Junction shows the addition of a law legislature to fully separate from Essex Town and become an independent city. And whereas decisions of the electorate compelled the extension trustees to seek the municipal manager to manage this extension, regardless of whether separation has become law. And whereas Brad, luck and Wendy, his co proposed becoming interim co managers. Enhancing their existing responsibilities to fulfill the duties of Essex Junction's manager. And whereas since February 26, 2022, Brad, luck and Wendy, his co have successfully managed municipality through the initial transition from a village to city. And whereas during this time, Brad, luck and Wendy, his co continue to ensure as extension community received the level of services the community has come to expect. And whereas in addition to managing the city, the day to day responsibilities, Brad, luck and Wendy has managed Essex Junction while overseeing such initiatives as the creation of a development review board. Land development code updates, creating a cannabis control board and related land development code enhancements, hiring of new leadership positions, hiring of first city manager and more. Now, therefore be it resolved the city of Essex Junction City Council hereby, hereby express our deepest and sincerest appreciation for Brad, luck and Wendy, his co's excellent service to our community. Thank you. Thank you. City Council, any other comments? Hearing none, I would entertain the motion to approve the resolution as read. So moved. Second. Thank you, Amber. Any further discussion on the motion? Hearing none of those in favor, please signify by saying aye. Aye. So suppose please say nay. Pass unanimously. Thank you all. Other business at hands. Andrew, I didn't vote, I abstained from voting. In that case, because we have somebody who is, who is remote, we're going to need to go through the roll call. So on that, Andrew, although I, Raj. Hi. Amber. Hi. And George. Abstain. Okay. Pass three zero with one abstention. Thank you. So now they'll bring us into public to be heard. So this is the portion of tonight's meeting where if there are members of the public who wish to bring something to the agenda of both of our boards. Now is the time to do so. For those of you who are using zoom, please go ahead and raise your hand. I'll make sure to give you time. For those of you here in the room, if you don't mind just raising your hand, I'll be able to call on you. Seeing no hands in the room. So going over into zoom. Seeing no hands on zoom. So no public to be heard. We can do business item six, a discussion of potential action of a three farm management memos. Be far management. That'd be great. In terms of just introducing these is that. Brad alley. To them, the least introduced for the public. Yep. He's in the room. Didn't see him come in. Yeah. It's got four over a year now. And so tonight, I think this is the opportunity for the two boards to have conversations. See, basically, you know, the memo highlights the key points that back in August. There was the initial meeting. And then in November, both boards, yes, this was a four year extension of the existing agreements. There are three agreements, one between the two boards, one between two boards and three car management group. And a lease for the three car management group to lease the property. Full of course, go unanimously to extend those agreements for four years. And ultimately things would end up in the municipal control at the conclusion of that. In February, both boards agree to extend the three agreements that were due to expire on July 31 to the secretary moment this year. And then I think it was in May, select or revisit the issue. And I think staff and select board agree that they would like an extension that results in their party management. Continue their party management of the parcel moving forward. And I think that was reiterated again this past August. And so we find ourselves here tonight to have a conversation that the. The council, I think has expressed that it's still interested in honoring the November vote, which was an extension, followed up by municipal. So that will be the discussion tonight to figure out how those two differing opinions can be reconciled, if possible. Thank you, Brad. I'm not sure if Greg, Mark Reed, Ali, anything outside their view. Brad captured it. Well, I would just clarify one little nuance. Select board isn't necessarily looking at targeting third party management as the end result of the lease. Not opposed to that. I wanted to have the conversation, the select board and staff brought it up select board agreed to have that conversation about what that result looks like. They no longer think it should absolutely be ending in municipal management at the end of the four year lease extension. Part of it is looking at the MO view that's in place that's been extended that talks about having that third party management as the. Oversight for management for the tree farm. So I think that's part of what the conversation is tonight is to figure out if that MOU and the intent of that MOU is still in place. And the end results. We did try to look into the, the municipal management. Having some challenges there just exactly what that would look like. So before we went too far down that road. The select board wanted to have the conversation tonight with the city council about. How to end that, what that lease looks like at the end of that four years and. I think that captures it, but I would look to the select board members because I don't want to necessarily speak for any of them. This is just relaying what has been discussed in the past. So, with that. Well, we had in terms of the forum for the rest of this part of the conversation. Given that this is a multi-party agreement, multi-party contract, looking to have the bulk of the conversation between our boards with an executive session. So that way we don't have another party to be privy to that conversation. And so as such, we would have that in executive session. So to do things a little differently. What we would do is have the public comment in advance. So if there are members of the public who would like to. Raise comments, we can take that now. And then go into the executive session so we can have our discussion. I'm sorry, Andrew, could you explain again what, why we would go into executive session because of third party? What, what are you doing? Yeah, it's not just a contract between the town and the city. This is ultimately leading to a contract between town city and the free farm management group. But why would that require executive session? We don't reveal strategy for our discussion. I see. Okay. Great. Yeah, and as we were coming into this, um, pass it out. And can you just let the board just under the expectation that the MOU discussion would be had in public. And that the possibility of having a discussion about the lease would be an effective session for discussion of real estate. Right, because the MOU is between these two public entities. If we're talking about, sure, if we're talking about a lease. And sure, that's a different question. I see what you're saying. Right. I'm just trying to think this through. I'm not saying one way or the other. The MOU dictates whether we contract with someone else and that prefer the only mentioned entity that we would contract with this chief tree farm management group. So any results from the MOU just again, hadn't gone that far in my head just trying to think out loud. Any discussion of the MOU would automatically impact how we, what we agree with as far as what ends up with tree farm management group in a contract. The tree farm group just has no signature, no say in the MOU. But they did not prove it. They're not, they're not, they were mentioned, sure, because they were the entity at the time. But I think there's also a clause in that that says that it could be any, if it is, you know, if the proper things are followed, I think there's a four year. Notification we're supposed to provide to the farm management group if we're going with another entity that's still in place there. I don't, I don't, yeah, it's, it's in agreement between the two of us now. So just looking into our. The MOU was a part of the public packet. So, yeah, that's fine. We can have that the MOU conversation, executive open session and then during that conversation at the conclusion of that conversation, go into executive afterwards. That's necessary to talk about the other two. Sure. There's a reason to get there. I asked a clarifying question. I believe I heard it stated that in February we extended the lease for four years. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Thank you. That was the plan. Okay. I'm good. Thank you. Okay, so to go back, let's have that conversation about the MOU first, as we normally would, and then go there for the others. Okay. Just on my going into the MOU. Looks like where you all had the conversation last about what you wanted to see out of this. You can talk about that. Sure. Sure. I can do that. So what we're, what we're looking at is putting together a lease agreement that has stipulations in it that addresses the issues that the concerns that have been raised. Access to the property. Access to financials. And then we have a meeting to follow open meeting law. Warnings, things of that sort. So transparency concerns with the, the three-pronged management group. How it's being operated. So, so we want to put more into the lease agreement and then monitor how they do over the four year extension. You know, at some point that we could, we could agree on some sort of schedule to say, okay, if they're not meeting this by this date, then we can start talking to them talking about. Other options, or if they're continuing on, then we have to have a different discussion. Do we want to continue to a third party? Continue with third party or take it. So, so I think that's the. That's the, the, the, the view the select board has given given that. Today's September 28. And December 31st is 3 months and less than a handful of days away. I don't know that we can. Work through. All of the. All of the issues that we will, that will come up with regard to sharing responsibility for the municipal responsibility for the group. And the fact that the MOU includes. Language in there that says that if you want to have this discussion with the tree from group and needed to start in 2018. And it's now 2022. So. We have some feeling that we should honor that for a year. Stipulation that was in there initially. So that's where the, that's why we. Back. Talked about this before we voted on before we go in a four year. Extension agreement. We'd like to have an extension agreement have. Essentially, I guess a trial period. See how. The tree for our management group moves forward with stipulations about transparency. And then at some point during that four years make a determination whether to continue. We could certainly talk about the schedule. Can I ask a question? Yeah. So we had a unanimous agreement with both boards back last time we discussed this back in November. Is that correct. And that it right and it at that time, I think what. I think what the agreement was what we were trying to say was that. In the last four years, we would see if. Working together, the two, the two municipal. Rep departments and the tree bar management group could come to some agreement and understanding of how to address all of these issues like transparency and access. And yet, you know, satisfy our need for greater transparency and oversight of their operation. And at the same time, we would retain the good, the good services that they're providing the volunteer services that we would have to compensate for if they left. So my understanding was that was kind of the concept of behind the four year agreement, but maybe. Maybe my memory is in serving me well. So I'm looking to you, Andy and. Yeah, so. I mean, is that kind of what we had in mind and my the point of my question is I'm trying to understand exactly what has changed. That makes it different now. So again, I can comment on a couple of things there. One is that there was we had seen from from. The village at the time that. The proposal that included in this year, we will take over the control of the finances. We will do this for this year. We will do that. So that was a takeover plan. Not any valuation financing. That's completely different than what we're thinking at this point. And just, and to answer the question of how we've gotten to different thinking is our staff review the proposal. And given all of the things that we're doing to figure out how to. Be a town on our own, right? It was. How the staff's recommendation was that we revert to pushing all of that work to figure out how to also control manage the. Out to a date. Okay. So I want to clarify too, when we did talk the. Impression that this the village trustees had as that as we approached that motion, it was that it would be three years. And then all of a sudden the select board motion for four and we were stuck either blowing it up. Or agreeing to the four. So and. So. Regardless of my depression, I think I'm the one to propose four. Okay. I think if you went back and watched the video tape, I had to see that I was one who said four. Yeah. And I don't know why I'm looking at dawn because I think we were looking at each other at the same time that we're doing. I can't remember why we said four instead of three. For some reason four came out at any rate, we're one year down. So we're looking at three more. Essentially. So when you're negotiating a contract. The time of the contract doesn't pass before you sign the contract. I don't think so, but we're not. I don't. I'm not there to agree that another year has passed the year has passed and therefore. Yeah. I would say that. I think we have a larger concern in terms of what the end result is before we talk about. Number of years anyway. I think we have a larger philosophical. Decision to make around what the end is, regardless of how tree farm does. Whether they meet our benchmarks or not. You know, I'm not sure that. I'm personally comfortable having that large public parcel run by a third party when. I think the reason it started that way, if I'm not mistaken, I think someone who was around when this was signed. I think I said that through my did me that the village did not have a wreck department at that time. I don't think they had a wreck department when the 2nd extension in the 2012. The dates are very fuzzy when the. Ria somewhere around 2012 happen, we didn't have a wreck departments with the school. Now we have a very successful. Recreation apartment is very capable of running that public parcel. For the entity. So I think. Hearing what you're saying about the town not being in a position right now to take that on is 1 thing, but I think to. To move towards a question of whether that's going to be managed or managed by a 3rd party is something I think for me, it needs to be decided 1st before we. Talk about length of any contract that might come. I may be the only one in the council that thinks it feels that way, but I don't. I think I am. So I'm just going to put that up there. Thank you. Yeah, I just wanted to comment on George. I think you mentioned 4 years. I was, I think I saw Raj's jaw drop when I said 4 years, I made the motion. Reading the room. I felt that if it was 3 years, the select board would not have passed it. I would have preferred to go with 4 years rather than the select board voting it down so that we actually had a path forward. A lot has changed since November. You are now a city. At the time, we also felt that we would have an agreement as part of separation that would govern the tree farm. We do not. I think it would allow us some assurances to have open financials, transparency in that matter, public meetings, public participation in meetings, things of that sort, while also adding runway to our timeline because December is coming up pretty quickly. It would allow us to enter into a planning mode to have those conversations. Raj, like you're talking about what is our vision? Where do we want to go? How do we get there? So from my perspective, that's how I see this. And so just going back to what Raj was saying, part of I think even some of the underlying all describe as frustration. Maybe that's just for me personally is we had the agreement back in November as to where we were going. And here we are now in some regards, rehashing what we had already previously to because there's now a change of part, if you will, as to the select board and then sign a path forward. Well, and to be clear, the intent back in November was go work on this agreement. Here are sort of the guide rails, guard rails bring it back to us so that then we have something to discuss. Quite frankly, that didn't happen. Which we had started conversations back in May to try and reinvigorate those conversations. In addition to preparing for separation, all of the agreements that went into that the legislature forming a city. So it didn't really have legs at that point. So here we are. And reinvigorating those conversations to try and identify a way forward. To just add to that the meeting that was supposed to be a joint meeting this spring was canceled. Although it was part of the discussion that supposed to be had this spring, but that meeting never took place. I have no idea what happened in that time. I forget what month it was, but we had a joint meeting scheduled when they did. My first part of the board. Yeah, that's been a while for sure. Right. And as Tracy said, the intent of the four month extension that we did provide was that we would work out how all that was going to happen. We asked, we did ask for a joint meeting many months ago, and this is the first opportunity we've had to get together. And so, you know, we're, we're, we're very close to out around right here. So I know with what we've talked about from the city council perspective is we like the original agreement, we like the original intent of that conversation of where we were going. That's where we're happy to continue with. So what I'm trying to do is figure out how to best have that as a change within this, within this draft. Thank you. Before we go into other public comments, I think that we've had sort of our say as to where, where perspective are where perspectives are where we feel what's brought us to this point. You want to take that break for for public input is there more conversation from board point. I don't know that I'm entirely clear I know that I know where we are. I might be the only person but I'm not sure. Are we saying that we're where we are and where we're comfortable with is with the four year continuing with the motion that with the motion we agreed to last November to end the contract for more years. And at the end we would possibly have municipal takeover or possibly not. Is that what you're saying or is there I'm not quite understand. What I'm saying is that with our previous conversations around having this come back under the purview of the municipalities is really where we were where we were headed where our conversation. We want to take this. Is it is it the select board's desire at the end if we continue with the four year lease select board's desire at the end that that we would absolutely have the municipalities take take back control of the property is that what you're saying. No. Okay. No. That's why I'm seeing two very I don't you're saying this agreement I'm not seeing I don't see it. Right, right. So, and I don't think I and I said I and trace and thanks for correcting me I couldn't tell it was you or me who did the four year thing and you're right I was trying to read the room as well. But as I said, I, I would look at to see if we couldn't come to a three tripartite agreement at the end of four years that we would then have municipal takeover of the facility but my at least my thought was that wasn't being an absolute position at least for me but maybe it is for the other city council. So I'm not sure. So, to be clear on something that we're not, we're not saying absolutely no, right. Take it over. We're just not sure it's, it's, it's still a possibility. Absolutely. But it's not a. Okay. It sounds to me like Andrew is saying that the city says, we absolutely want to take it over and the select order saying, well, we want to work on the issues that are there. We want to understand what it really means to us. I think the time that we need to understand what it's all we can do it successfully rather than trying to cram all that into three months in two days. Right. Okay. George, the initial. We're coming back to that initial resolution. The initial resolution did include municipal management at the end with the formation of a business plan and a transition. The resolution, the original resolution after our discussion that we were talking about was a three years, was it four years? The original resolution appears to read that the select board offer a lease agreement to the tree farm management group for four years and that Essex Parks and Recreation and Essex Junction Recreation and Parks. Assume the management of the tree farm facility thereafter with the understanding that the lease agreement would need to be developed with that transition plan and business plan. There was a lot of talk about coming up with a business plan for how that would actually look. Okay. There's some public comment and question as to whether EGRP could actually and EPR could manage that. But within that framework, you could still envision having a third party operate the property. You could still say municipal control with the third party actually doing the operation. They could still be there. I'm not seeing how that works. I'm not seeing any. Okay. Yeah. Aside from, you know, contracting for services maybe, you know, if I'm not sure what service would be left over if the municipalities are handling the programming and the scheduling. Right. So, Georgie, you're right. There isn't an agreement as to where that end path is and what the end result is. Right. So, that's your articulation was spot on. Okay. There isn't agreement. So, if I was saying that there is and then I apologize. That's no problem. No problem. No problem. Great. There's a question real quick. Are you even about the hand in the room? It's not Kendall Chamberlain. No. I can't see the, I can't see anybody. So, I'm just curious. Yeah. Kendall on the speak. No, I keep trying to go back and forth between. I didn't pull the room there. I don't know who's it. Yeah. Sorry. It's kind of tricky when you're doing. Sure. Yeah. Appreciate that. So, it sounds like the thing that we're going to need to try to figure out is how do we resolve that difference of where we're coming from. So, of where we're trying to go and what our desired goal is. Back in our city council previous, that's what we had discussed and where we had settled. Sounds like you, you all have settled on a knot. So, something that sounds like that's where we are. I guess I don't want to sound like a smart aleck when I ask this and so I apologize if it comes across that way. But why is what the city with all you have to do informing the new city are you in such a hurry to take over the tree fair. It's not that they were in a hurry. We're not asking to take this agreement and turn it into a one year agreement. We're going to make it effective as of the new calendar of the year. So, I would ask for members of the public if you could please mute yourself until I've been called upon. Please and thank you. Just for clarification. Sorry. I don't want to. So, yes, it sounds like the city council's stance is yes, you absolutely want it under municipal management. But for a clarification saying it sounds like the select board does not is inaccurate. The select board stances we don't know. It could be it could not be. But that's what that runway gives us time to have these conversations and plan for one way or the other. So just a minor clarification. I don't want you to think that we're absolutely no, we don't want, you know, municipal management. It's just that many things have changed and we would just like some, like I said, some runway to to think about it and have these discussions collaboratively to identify where do we go and how do we get there. There's been a lot of back and forth dates. Can you just reiterate to me that the timeline of I just thought I'd already say the end of the fiscal year voted on for December 31. We're talking on January 1 or would it be a four year and then consideration of. Yeah, Don was asking what the rush is from the city council about having this become a basically managed endeavor and their response was up there. We're not trying to rush anything or make that faster, but rather we're trying to maintain that end goal of the end goal is to have to see a meaningfully maintained. Park entity just like every other park within both the town and the city in four years. To that's what the original intent or what the original motion was. So there was a, there was a proposed schedule, which I don't think it wasn't clear. I didn't see it in the packet. I don't think it's an area that I just not in there that the one that said, you know, financial takeover this state, but you know, it was, there was a, there was a schedule that was proposed. And the, the rate at which that schedule is set in that proposal against, I guess, I think it's in the packet. I think it might be in. It says there's following recommended terms. Says 1124. The tree farm would operate 2023 seasons. At the end of the 22 season, the tree farm would hand over all physical financial assets and municipalities. And it says 1123, which would be just coming January. I'm not sure if it's a physical property and expenses related to tree farm. We managed by municipalities as well as directed by tree farm until 1231. Which would be the coming year. So in the packet, Ethan, are you on page three? I'm on page one. On the packet is the same. I'm on your packet. This is, sorry. It says, okay, so page one of the, I don't have a page three of 40. Yeah. I just have page one of the, of the. Right. One of three and this, it's different. Different, different ones put together. Page three of 40, I think is where he is at the bottom. Recommended terms. Yes. The following were the recommended terms. Because that's what I was reading. And that's kind of why I asked about the timeline because this timeline is like something that's going to be added immediately. Well, this, you know, this is from back in November. So this would not obviously, I guess this would need to be adjusted because we haven't done anything essentially since then. So I guess. In that, in that scenario, which we're not necessarily saying. And then I also had, I also had the same concerns. I think we shared as a board was with the, with the, with the contract on and they're terminating the contract. You know, it was fully written in there about the transformation or the transition period. You know, where is that part of us? The MOU says a four year. We need to needed to start having discussions with the third party in 2018. About the next contract. About the next time. So not about whether to extend it or anything like that. We need to talk with them in that time period. So there's no stipulation that says that you have to, before termination that you have to give them a four year leeway. It's just an inference being taken from the statement. I, I, I don't, I can't offer a legal opinion as to what that means. You know, if you don't, if you miss a date in that MOU like that, does it, does it imply that I don't mind. I don't know what it implies. Not a, I'm not asking for your people opinion. I was just asking about your opinion. My, my thought is that we owe them four years of notice because that was the intent of the MOU and, you know, I was bringing it up late. I mean, it's like, it's like I have a contract with Greg Duggan over there. I mean, it's one of the, one of the dates that I have in it. Then it's, you know, it's not his fault. Yeah. I think it's difficult. I don't want this to come off as crass or too hard or anything, but I, I think it's difficult for us to talk about the intent of the MMP of the MOU from 2010 when George is the only person in the room who was there. But I think George might be able to speak to the intent. I mean, unless we're. Yeah. That would be a bad idea because you've already seen how poor my memory is. Just like a couple of months ago. But anyway. I think you end up using the words that are on the page and somebody's going to have to interpret them. And my, my interpretation is in, you know, others could interpret it. I'm sure. Well, I think in that respect, if I can, in that respect, we put them on notice November of last year. So with that resolution, if that's what you're saying. So that means. Four years from November. It's the four years. If we're going to give them notice whether we gave them a letter saying. This is what's going on. This isn't. I guess. Yeah. We have to talk about that. What that means and what the responsibilities are from this. I just wanted to put comment about that because I've kind of trying to read through all this and tear through it all to myself. And what kind of hung up, I hung up on was a contract extension is extending the current terms. And not a new contract. In my opinion. I don't know if that's right or wrong. But as I read all this, I was thinking about the dates and things. I was thinking about the dates and things. I was thinking about the dates and things. I was thinking about the dates and things. I was thinking about the dates and things. When we extended the contract, we extended the existing terms of the contract. With no new stipulations. We just simply moved it on. For now a year. As the contract was written originally. It was extended in my opinion. So in some way it feels like we're spinning our wheels. If I'm dealing with one feeling that way at this time. Would it be helpful if we. Went through. The changes that are in the MOU. To identify. Where we do have agreement so we know where we don't. So now we can try to limit this conversation a little bit. Yeah, I guess we can do that. Or open to other thoughts. And I'm not sure who made the. Who made the changes. Yeah. Changes. There's. I see. Yeah. It's shown up. There's. Who did that. Okay. Okay. Thanks. I just. Wonder where it came from. So I think in general. Certainly all the three that. The one that hasn't changed the city. We don't even necessarily debate that one at all. Appreciate the. The school district name. I'm not sure of the difference. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. The district name. I'm not sure of the difference. I think rewording. It sounds like. Yeah, it sounds like it was worded as if the. Furniture from the state was in the future. And so that. The language access. It's not really, right. Right. The rather than guide with that lease agreements. As to put you with another entity. As a quick question please. The initial. Purchase in terms of the first. Handover from the state to this village. under any requirement to keep any language from the previous semi-a. There's nothing deeded in this that says any of this, right? Is there, sorry, is there anything specific to this parcel in a deed, lean or otherwise, that means that any of this has to remain? So, the MOU remains in perpetuity until we mutually agree to change it, or the parcel, it is subdivided. Okay, so there's nothing, so as long as we agree to change it, we can, but again, I don't know, I'm not fully cognizant, I fully understand all of the terms imposed by the state, so I can't say that we can change absolutely everything. I don't know, I don't know how all that links together. We should probably find that out eventually. If there's anything, right. Except for the next part where it says the town and city are named as tenants and common in the deed, that seems to be fixed. You see that again? The next section, B, you know, the town and city are named as tenants and common in the deed, that's definitely fixed. Yeah, the MOU can't change the deed. Right, right. So, with the purpose of the purpose of this MOU, to provide for the award-leaning efficient management, the ability and performance of the planned lease agreement, does it need to say in performance with the planned lease agreement, or is the purpose to have an award-leaning efficient management and oversight facility? Oh, right, because it supplies, again, that like it's been written as if the lease agreement isn't true. Right. I think it's implied if we come up with a lease agreement as a joint owner that what we're doing is to make sure we're in conformance with the lease agreement that we're executing. I don't see how that would be required to be in there. So, rather than try to rewrite this thing in this meeting, should we each look at this in detail and try to make proposals for changes? And as we've done the agreements in the past, I think it's going to be tough to smith this live here. Certainly can, trying to respect the date of September 28th. Yeah, well, but... He asked for a meeting back in April or May. Yep. Yeah, that's a big issue, right? What happens to say the thing? Maybe we need to talk about what happens if we don't come to agreement by December 31st. And then we don't agree with the three-car management. I think we could all speculate, but maybe not. Yeah, the big point? Yeah. So, if we do that, I guess the City Council will need to prioritize at our next meeting to take a pass. Or let me rephrase, would you like us to take a pass to have our proposals or our proposed changes to this for then you to review at a yourself-to-put meeting? So, this is an initial proposed pass by town staff. So, yeah. Karen, do you want to have a comment? Yeah, but just a suggestion for tonight. I mean, this person is obviously... This is the draft form of the town staff. I don't know if anything significant could be changed there. I don't know if I made them wrong, but the big question for us has been a staff that the Stingulations about third-party agreement, if it's that intent, still holds. It sounds like there's probably not going to be an answer to that tonight. A possible suggestion is it worth getting to present to your session later on tonight, talk about what the terms of the lease might look like, and see if there's some sort of problem in the ground for the next four years. It sounds like the direction is not going to be a discussion about the lease, and we'll come back out and see where they're going to get made out of the staff. I'm okay with that. City Council or select board members, anything? Can we still hear from the public, though, that's been waiting to speak? Sure, absolutely. I just wanted to make sure that that was a path that the boards were okay taking before we did that. I'm not seeing anything different online either. So if we do that, then what we can do is take a public comment on the topic. If you're okay with it, take a public comment on the topic. And then our next agenda item that we did was also an executive session. Sorry? I believe our next... Both of you next, yeah, the other agenda item is business assignments also. It's definitely a discussion discussion. So then just go through, have the public comments, hold off on the other items, finish off the consent agenda, reading file, language, executive session. Yes, great. So there's no disagreement from members of the boards, great. So then we can turn things over into the public for public comments. I know Betsy, you've been waiting the longest with your hand up patiently. Thank you for that. So why don't you go ahead and pick stuff up? Thank you very much, Andrew. Um, so I remember last November and that you all voted yes for this. So we have a contract basically, an MOU. And then... Just a moment, we have an echo in the room that I don't know about anybody else, but I'm not quite understanding. So hold on a moment. I think we'll give you one of the TVs. Okay. There we go. All right, let it again. Okay. I remember last November when this vote happened and it was a unanimous vote. And after the vote you said you were going to get together so that you could make a list of objective criteria for the evaluation of the Chief Farm Management Group so that you would know, you could say, yes, they're doing a great job, or well, this is what you did wrong because you had to give them information for why you were not going to continue their contract. And that's what I remember about that. But it seems like what you're doing now is you're opening another part of a contract up because this is like a new negotiation of terms with this conversation that I'm listening to. Is that correct? That's what you're doing? Renegotiating it? We have a four-year contract with this, a four-year MOU. But you want to renegotiate this now. Is that correct? So Betsy, we only extended the contract to the end of this calendar year. Oh, I thought it was for four years. No, it was only until the end of this year. I'll go back to the MOU. Thank you. Not seeing any other hands up in Zoom roles. Any members of the public wish to speak to this item that are in the room? Okay. Seeing any. So then as such, that next business item, 6B would also be an executive session, which would take us into the consent items. I think they're all for the city council. So city council, I maintain the motion to prove the consent agenda. I move we can we approve the consent agenda. I'll second. Thank you, Raj. Thank you, George. Any further discussion? Hearing none, I'll favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. I'll say nay. I pass unanimously. Thank you all. The reading file and if there are board member comments. Just one comment. The construction site at 195-197 Pearl, if we could make another reminder. I think they got a formal letter reminder. If we could make another reminder to not block the sidewalk, one of our busiest roads with no other options for pedestrians, cyclists, wheelchairs, strollers, it has been blocked every morning this week for periods of time. It would be great if they need to make deliveries into other things for more than a couple minutes. If they arrange for, whatever they need to arrange to safely close the lane. But students use it. People with disabilities use it. It's unfortunate for them, I realize, but you can't keep calling PD on them. Great. Thank you, Raj. Tracy, you saw your hand? I didn't notice this before now, but in the packet, the check warrants are the town of Essex accounts payable. So I'm curious whether that was a misclassification that it's for city council only, or if it was included by the state. It's a merged, because we have the merged finance system, under the account numbers, if you look under account where it says 210, everything beginning with a 2 is us, everything beginning with a 1 is you. Greg Marguerite, am I wrong on that? Yes. Okay. So that's just how long. Okay. Just wanted to make sure. Yeah. I was going to say that. Check that box. Yeah. That's come up before on hours wondering, wait, why are we approving the town's finances? That's not right. Thank you. As long as we're taking board member comments, I want to mention that there's Explorer Essex event coming up this weekend. I'd like to invite all of you to come and have a good time. Thank you. Yeah. I know our new manager is looking for stuff to do, so I want to give her a couple of things. And so I would like to have, not right away, but sometime on an upcoming agenda, two issues. One, to begin the conversation of what we're going to do with the public works department and replacing or renovating or whatever we're going to do with that building. I would like to begin to put a stake in the ground about how we're going to approach that, particularly with the budget season coming up. And number two, I would like to have an architects report about this building and get us back on track for the renovation of Lincoln Hall. I'd like to start with, again, to go back and have John Alden's report about the space needs in this building and potentially, hopefully, with John coming here so we can discuss it with him. Yeah, thank you. They're all coming. But along that note, real quick, Regina, this is your first city council meeting as a city manager. Thank you. I appreciate you being here. Thank you for having me. Yes. Very excited. Must also like to welcome you. Looking forward to working with you. Thank you very much. Exciting to be here. I've seen the hands up on our members who are virtual. So for these two business items, I'm assuming 6B may be faster. And so should we prioritize that conversation so that that way our police chief can have this evening and then go into tree farm? Yeah. Yes. While I pull that up, anybody have the C416B? I move the select board and city council make a specific finding. The general public knowledge of contracts would place the town and city at a substantial disadvantage. Can I get a second from city council? I'll second. I'll second. George, you're all in favor. Please signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed to be saying aye. Raise pass unanimously. I move the select board city council. Oh, sorry. I shouldn't always speak for myself. I moved it. Quick, ma'am. City council enter the executive section to discuss contracts pursuant to one VSA, section 313A1A to include the city council city manager and police chief. I guess I can't do that. You can include the other board. Okay. City council, select board, town manager, city manager, deputy town manager, and police chief if you want, Rick. Not for this first part. Okay. We're going to... Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you, Raj. Have a second. I'll second. Thank you, George. All in favor. Please signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed to be saying aye. Standlessly. Thank you all. Okay. Any similar motions from the select board? Okay. So, you have it up? We do. I move that the select board make the specific finding. The general public knowledge of contracts would place the town at a substantial disadvantage. Thank you, Tracy. Do I have a second? Second. Thank you, Ethan. Like the discussion. Those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? That's just by zero. I move that the select board enter into executive session to discuss contracts pursuant to one VSA, 313A1A, to include the city council, town manager, city manager, deputy town manager, and police chief. Second. Thank you, Tracy. Thank you, Ethan. Any further discussion? All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? Any motion passed? It's by zero. Great. Thank you all. So, if you weren't named, you don't mind. So, do you want to do the move on this for the other one, too? So, we're going to make a motion to go back into executive session. Just think you said go ahead and make that for the other one. To make the motion for the other one now. So, if we don't go back into open session, to make motions to go back into executive session. That would make time go. Sure. Do you want to go first? Sorry, I feel like that. I do. I have one here. Do you have it? I don't have those. I think it's very one. It's in the back, right? Yeah. Good. Let me see if we can just make sure. Move that the slack word, enter executive session to discuss the negotiating or securing of real estate purchase or lease options in accordance with one VSA, section 313A2, and to include the town manager, deputy town manager, director of parks and recreation, city council, city manager, director of extension, direction, recreation, and parks. You had it on promise. And if everyone's met. Okay, we have a second. Second. Thank you. Tracy, further discussion. Let's favorably say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? Okay, motion passes. Time's up. Can I get a similar motion from the city council? I move. I move to find the premature general public knowledge regarding contracts associated with the tree farm recreational facility would clearly place the city at a substantial disadvantage because the council is disclosing its negotiation strategy if it discusses the contract in terms. And I also move that we go into executive session to discuss contracts under the provisions of title one, section 313A1 of the Vermont statutes to negotiate for secure real estate purchase or lease options under title one, section 313A2 of the Vermont statutes and include Regina Mahoney, Brad Locke, Harlan Smith, members of the Essex Select Board, Craig Duggan, Margaret Ladd, or Reed Ladd, and Ellie Vaughan. Thank you, Raj. I'll second. Thank you, George. All those in favor, please signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed to be saying aye. Also pass unanimously. Thank you all. Did we miss one? Did we miss one? I'm looking. I don't see it under the recommendation section but I'm double checking the. You're not going to just do it from me saying it? You can't just remember it. I could try, but it wouldn't be the best. His motion was Raj's second part. The first part, right, right, the final. I'm only seeing one under the recommendation section. I can't remember if real estate needs the premature knowledge plus. I'm not sure we have the same thing that you do. I'm on page 5 of 40. Yeah, page 5 of 40 is what? There you go. You're on the second motion for 6B. So it's page 5 of 40. If you're seeing the PDF. If you're concerned, you could make that motion from what I'm hearing from Greg is not necessary. So if you all want to feel free, if you don't, you. Okay. Well, since you're supposed to do it before you do the other one. Yeah. Is the procedure fun? So my question is these motions do not have town language and by just change the language. Sorry, what? There's a recommended motions on 5 of 40 or saying that it would place the city of the town. Am I missing something? No town motion. Oh, I see. So city. So I think I can change the word. We don't need your suggestion that we don't need to make this motion for real estate. I think we're done and we're ready to go. Okay. We're back. Thank you all for your patience. If you want to. I move that the board authorize staff to create a three-year lease between the city and the tree farm management group for review by the respective boards. Is that right? Yes. Thank you, Rush. I'll second that. Thank you, George. Any further discussion? You know, I, Raj, could you just, I think, I didn't quite hear you from here and probably for the folks at home. You might want to just repeat what that motion is. I move that the board authorize staff to create a three-year lease between the city and the tree farm management group for review by the boards. Seeing no other discussion. All in favor of the signify by saying aye. Aye. Those opposed, please say nay. That's unanimously. Thank you. Thank you all. I would like to make that same motion on behalf of the select board. I've been waiting for a year and a half to do that. That could. Thank you, Tracy. Thank you, Don. Any further discussion from the select board? All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion passes five-zero. I didn't take a motion to adjourn. Make a motion to adjourn. Okay, your second. Select board. Oh, close. Select board. Oh, you already made it. Second. And I debate all those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Select board adjourned. Council, I move we adjourn. I'll second. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Say nay. That's unanimously. Thank you all. We're still here.