 That's what it's gonna be There had been a a strong revolt You know from from from the from the line populace Maybe you took a vote Sam and Lucy voted for studio feline Otis voted against and that was it democracy wins. Exactly. Yeah Well, I could have sided with Otis All right, you could have you could know you have to say new Chairman of your like the vice president though, you only get to vote if there's a tie Which is unlikely to happen. You know the cats are never gonna vote with Otis Yeah, I just want to say we want something different Want something else? Well, if Lucy had abstained then you would have had to cast the deciding that's true, huh, right? Otis doesn't really know how to vote also He's just gonna mess it up if he tries he's not a voter one popper one vote He's he actually I think I mentioned I was um I was planning to board him for a couple of days with the service rover that I have used which is just great you know where he can like go stay with somebody who likes dogs and Because I thought oh, he's gonna be in the way and there's gonna be boxes and he's gonna be all stressed And he stayed with them one night and then last night. I was like I'm coming back early and he's like yeah, that is it's just made no sense sort of you know He might as well just get used to it like the rest of us. Yeah fine We boarded Ray and Sawyer during the actual move. Yes. Yeah, that was that was what he was not around for that Yeah, but other than that like we picked him up and brought him in there. We were still finishing up the move actually Yeah, yeah There have been many good suggestions in the discord. I want to acknowledge that Well, there have been many suggestions in the discord studio five lion Studio Zudio for instance the Zudio was I liked that one. Yeah. Hmm. I sound bad Zudio Zudio line from Loria Or Phil Collins or Su Su Zudio from Phil the problem is Zudio sounds a little like morning zoo radio to me Yeah, yeah Just false advertising right people come here expecting a lot of cowbells and right talk and yeah, we're just gonna talk Tacos I can talk about tacos. Yeah, let's talk about tacos You don't stick around for the after show because it's so late in Finland. You miss all the taco talk That's true. You know, that's my life Although, you know, it's a baby hazard. That's why blame your son Blame that poor innocent child his fault very French, I wouldn't call him innocent honestly He's been Yeah, he's been angry He can't walk see that's the problem Right Reading through the as-in-off novels and I'm at the currents of space And it's really funny to hear the the way it's written because I actually I'm listening to them in So it's even better. Let's see some of them were recorded in the I don't know late a long time ago And uh, yeah, it's very funny Well, now look here. Look here now Speaking of audiobooks before we get started. We're gonna start dts here in just a second But on Saturday, I submitted to audible the audiobook of my novel gallium As read by miz Veronica Belmont Oh, that's right. So here is A quick sample anetta See the quoted message below for details The short version is you are to stop work on your current survey I'm headed to north for some other meetings today. I'll stop in on zactus and see what I can do. Let's talk days There you go. That's all you get. Um, I I find Veronica's voice very soothing It is yeah I in you know, and I've heard it in many capacities So I know you're not interested in the story, but you'll be buying the audiobook just so you can relax Who says No, I'm just kidding. I find it energized. I'm saying if you don't care about the story, you can still buy the book I know you hate my book, but fine. Get it for Veronica All right. Uh, can you read line three today? Who me? Yeah Yes, I can. All right. Uh, here we go and Oh, let's say in 10 seconds. How's that? That's long All right. All right. Well, it's only five now. Here we go. Four three two one Thanks to chris allen and everyone who supports daily tech news show directly to find out more head to daily tech news show dot com slash supports This is the daily tech news for tuesday october 23rd 2018 in los angeles. I'm tom merit and from studio feline 3.0 with a bit of a horse voice. I'm sarah lane And from the french enclave in the finnish countryside. I'm patrick beija I'm somewhere on the edge of la. I'm the producer roger And you're not a bird sounds like roger isn't sure where he is. I I you know what? I got three and a half hours of sleep So i'm not really sure where Not all of sarah's voice made it in the move. It'll show up roger will get some sleep eventually Everything's gonna be fine because patrick beija has an excellent topic for us to discuss later in the show We're very excited about the pressure the pressure. It's not pressure. No, it's good stuff However, we must start with a few tech things you should know The verge reports that apple is planning to fix beauty gates as it's known in ios 12.2 Selfies taken in the 10 s and 10 r models are applying a skin smoothing effect Not everybody likes that apple told the verge told the verge it'll pick a sharper base frame for smart hdr Probably not a bad idea. It's not just on faces, but yeah, it affects faces Meanwhile, google says it will fix an issue that caused some photos taken on pixel 3s to not save at all The bug which also affected a few other android phones caused the camera app to shut down after a picture was taken But before the saved picture could be the the saved picture could be completed Until the fixes out users are advised to not take pictures No to leave the camera app open until hdr processing completes Motorola is selling official repair kits for its phones in partnership with iFix it iFix it sells kits to repair pretty much anything but usually in spite of a manufacturer's opinion not with its cooperation Motorola, however, is sourcing parts to iFix it for eight repair kits for the moto z x droid turbo 2 z play g5 z force x pure and g4 plus And most of the kits focus on replacing the battery for the screen And misfit announced the vapor 2 watch available soon for 250 dollars 50 dollars more than the first vapor, but for the extra 50 you get nfc support standalone gps and two more pixels per inch for a total of 30 328 it's also available in two sizes now not just one 41 millimeters or 46 And we've got a new phone from htc tell us about it patrick Very special phone indeed htc announced specs for the six inch exodus one And put it up for pre-orders the exodus includes a wallet secured away from android meant to store To store keys to cryptocurrency It also includes a key recovery system if your phone is lost or stolen where htc sends info to friends Which you can then combine the phone sells for 0.15 bitcoins or for 0.78 Ether coin are they called ether coins ether? Yeah, I think that's I think that's appropriate Isn't it? Just under a thousand bucks for shipping in december to 34 countries to though not in china Which has strict regulations on on cryptocurrencies two things here one is So htc has a copy of your key It sounds like I would like to know more about that right because then what would it be sending to people? I know they're splitting it up when they send it to your friends So your friends don't get a complete copy and it has to go to people you authorize and trust I get that Also, they're calling it a blockchain phone. I'm trying to be really good about not using blockchain inappropriately This isn't a blockchain phone. It's just stores your tokens in a secure wallet Which is cool except for that part where htc might have a copy of your key not as cool Yeah, I think because it just depends on how much you would trust a company and I think you know Most of this panel would probably say not enough the whole point of a secure wallet and a secure key is especially with cryptocurrency is I am the only one who can get into my wallet and so storing it in the cloud with the htc kind of Subverts the the general expectation. Yeah at the very least we would need to know more about how they're storing this at the very very least because Essentially, I like yeah I was going to I was just going to say there may be a way that they're splitting it up and storing it Encrypted that only you can recover in which case you would need a key. So I don't know I also think it's cute that they're selling it for bitcoin and ether and yeah, it's it's really like Yeah, this feels like a gimmick, but you know, if this is indeed the design of the phone Then it should be interesting to people who have these Cryptocurrency coins. So sure. Yeah Let's move on to something else that's cute and that's teenagers Depending on the teen obviously piper jaffrey's 36th semiannual taking stock with teen survey shows instagram is the most popular social network among teens With 85 using it least once a month just edging out snapchat, which came in at 84 percent twitter was third at 47 face book fourth at 36 Snapchat though is still listed as the favorite among teens by 46 percent of them compared to 32 percent for instagram Kind of interesting amazon is the favorite upper-income teen website at 47 Nike seconds at just five percent Teen spent 38 percent of their daily video consumption on netflix with youtube second at 33 percent and cable and satellite tv At 16 percent. So teens are not that into cable anymore 83 percent of respondents anticipate buying a current gen console or they already own one compared to 80 percent in the spring of 2018 Yeah, a few things in here bucking the trend first of all The idea that there was any teen that liked cable and tv or satellite kind of surprised me. Although it you're right It is really low netflix outperforming youtube I think some people might might find that surprising and The idea that console ownership Desire rising when a lot of people, you know, we've talked about before the the conventional wisdom is like well consoles aren't going to be around forever It's a declining area. Whereas this the least with teens. They're like no actually we're we're way into consoles these days Yeah on the console aspect specifically, I think the Wisdom Among tech journalists is well everyone does everything on phones Who needs consoles and obviously that was proven wrong with the current generation and consoles going away Meaning the physical device might go away, but not the kind of needs gaming needs they address So that's definitely something different. I think it's really interesting that instagram is passing snapchat even just a little bit because It used to be that snapchat was king. Oh not so long ago but the most interesting one is amazon being the favorite upper income so it's qualified but favorite website at 47 percent with nike being second Just looking at shopping websites not, you know, right? Probably not hanging out on nike's website very It shows the the dominance of amazon in shopping It's kind of staggering. I think because I mean we all know amazon is big but 47 to 5 There's something that I mean if I put my dirty socialist hat on it's starting to look It's also interesting to me and you know with every year that passes I get further away from understanding teenagers but that snapchat is still so popular among teenagers because With you know, there was a time where I was pretty into it I was definitely active on it every day at least watching other snaps even if I wasn't participating And everybody who was kind of in that with me who was more or less in my age group has just stopped Yeah, no So the adults kind of got in there and wanted to be cool and then we got tired of it But the teenagers have not Minds me when I was a teen and I was way into jam boxes and the walkman Uh patrick kennedy a consultant for large hardware and storage vendors has been running a website called serve the home A server oriented blog since 2009 that's important to know because this is a guy who is generally respected well known And knows what he's talking about in that space He has a breakdown of why the hardware attack on super micro as described by bloomberg Is difficult for him to believe Bloomberg said the chip used the base management controller or bmc To enable telling the device these are the bloomberg words telling the device to communicate with one of several anonymous computers Elsewhere on the internet that were loaded with more complex code. So we all think oh, okay, so it's it's like trojan horse, right? kennedy says the bmcs are generally segregated from the rest of servers in a network through a firewall certainly That practice is followed by sophisticated companies like apple and amazon Making the attack described by bloomberg in kennedy's opinion impossible Standard industry practice would guard against that attack vector bloomberg also claimed That the compromised bmc was capable of again a quote giving them access to the most sensitive code even on machines that have crashed Or are turned off kennedy also notes that sensitive data is stored in the main server complex not the bmc kennedy writes Encrypted sensitive code pushed from network storage is not accessible and a bmc would not authenticate if it tried to Access it so again this part of the described hack Impossible in kennedy's opinion goes on to talk about other allegations being implausible Including some language confusion over the cpu versus the bmc A chip size that implies some pretty advanced lithography techniques that he explains chinese companies didn't have in 2014 when these were supposedly constructed So they would have had to go outside of china to get the designs which doesn't seem to have happened Also, he is among the many who have pointed out that the software attack would achieve the same results and be much easier than having to design this sophisticated piece of hardware and then Put it in the supply chain without being detected and of course the the general opinion that if such a chip existed Why haven't we seen even one picture of it? If not an example of it if it was out in the wild So best breakdown of this that i have read so far highly recommend Reading it will include a link to the show notes or you can just go check it out at serve the home.com but it is bringing me to the opinion that bloomberg is mistaken That they are misunderstanding things and their sources either Are trying to just trying to disabuse them of this notion But bloomberg's not listening a couple of the named sources have pretty much said as much Or they are intentionally trying to cede confusion for some other purpose And in in some way Which i know seems really unlikely but pretty much every angle on this story seems unlikely I think there's still the possibility that bloomberg is looking at this Through a very partial lens And so they're not understanding it correctly or entirely right That there's some third explanation That shows why bloomberg thinks this happened, but why everyone else thinks it doesn't that's exactly it's it's kind of it's kind of like You know, we talked about it in the prism issue, but you know when you look at a a co Can of coke In 2d if you take a slice it can look like a Rectangle it can look like a circle it can look like many different things So if you only have this you're going to describe something that doesn't make sense and you don't have the full picture I think it might be something like that It might also be you know bloomberg completely having As unlikely as it is it's possible that bloomberg just completely messed up here. Um, yeah I mean the the confusion that kennedy points out between bmc What a bmc can do and and them using the phrase cpu in the bloomberg article sort of points out That there is some technical confusion that either bloomberg is dumbing things down for the general audience Or doesn't understand exactly what's going on here in such a way that it still passes editorial review I think it's also been pointed out a few times that the story At bloomberg is light on technical details So i'm not exactly sure we should take it as light as it is and as dumb down as it is and try to understand the very precise technicalities of what they're describing because clearly it's been You know simplified for people to understand that being said there are other issues as well that Kind of put it in question the biggest one of all being well by now we should have seen one of those motherboards Yeah, if it really existed it seems unlikely that not a single example would be found Even if the other Explanation with jack whittaker has put forth the fact, you know the the idea that This did happen, but the people who know about it aren't allowed to tell anyone You'd think you'd think a picture with it. Yeah, exactly or or you know if there are thousands of them It's unlikely that you know the authorities would have gotten to all of them Yep All right, let's move on and talk about fantastic things that everyone's going to be happy about at mozilla, right? Um mozilla announced a partnership with proton vpn to sell its services to firefox users Starting wednesday october 25th mozilla will show a small number of users of us firefox 62 users an ad to purchase monthly vpn from proton vpn for 10 bucks Mozilla will evaluate the success of this test before expanding it globally mozilla will keep a cut of the proceeds so ads in your browser that's Great, it would be up in the right hand corner proton male makers proton vpn. They are a well respected security company So they picked a good one mozilla vetted them and the idea is to say we need to fund mozilla We'd like to try to fund it in ways other than selling search Or or doing general ads. What if we offer you vpn? And they would only show this to you when you're on an unsecured wi-fi network Which you know is is an interesting way of doing it too. I mean, I think the question for a lot of people is Is that $10 price point the right one? Yeah, and that's the same price that proton vpn sells if you don't go through mozilla So, you know, whether it's the right one or not it it isn't a an increased price from what you would normally get from that company I think it's it's a good partnership. I think there are still going to be people who Are unhappy about anything like this But also, you know at some point someone has to make money in this thing or it's not going to keep Being developed. So yeah, and they'd like to reduce their dependence on google. I get that which yeah Let's move on to 5g because it's happening 5g wireless service for home and mobile devices Definitely on the horizon lots of company announcements of upcoming Uh phones and devices at least it's seen that has a good breakdown of what 5g capable devices have been announced so far Samsung is working on a 5g phone that would be in addition Samsung says to the galaxy s10 so possibly the s10 plus that's a popular room we're going around 5g networks are expected to launch in korea in march LG confirmed its first will launch on sprints the first half of 2019. So Somewhere before summer, I guess Lenovo has a 5g mod coming next year for the moto z3 rather a 5g phone will follow company says Huawei will release its cure in 5g modem in march and then says a 5g phone will be ready by the end of june of next year One plus believes it'll also be one of the first to launch a 5g phone in 2019 Everybody wants to do this next year and zte now says late 2019 for its 5g phone And nokia is partnered with t mobile for 5g phones expected next year as well So yeah, we're getting these phones. They're coming next year. The service is generally coming in most parts of the world That are going to get it soon next year So by the end of next year, we'll be talking about Whether 5g service is worth paying for yet And if so, what 5g phone would you like and when will the pixel and the iphone come out with their 5g versions? I'm you know I'm not sure we're gonna need it next year or we're even no, that's okay. That's Someone out there will need it. Well, well, thanks for the quote needed. Um But I think 4g is fine for most people today um I think 5g is exciting but beyond next year because This is not a situation where you absolutely need this kind of service to catch up to the uses. We already have This is a service that will maybe create different kinds of uses that can wait a little bit when we went from 3g to 4g We were hoping to get the kind of speeds that we were already getting at home and being used to in the wild This 5g sure is going to be faster and some people will say oh, you haven't tried my 4g. It sucks I can't wait for 5g sure, but in general The the standard is not I think as needed As it was when we did the previous switch We'll see how you feel about that once 5g services out. No, but that's the point once it's out It's going to be exciting but not needed Anyway, the point is uh, those of you who keep saying call me when it's real We'll be calling you next year to get all the tech headlines each day in about 5 minutes Be sure to subscribe to a daily tech headlines dot com All right, patrick brought up an interesting topic for conversation today to finish up our show It's not necessarily do you need a pc anymore? But are we in this post pc world patrick? Tell us what you're thinking. Yeah, so, you know, it it struck me We're going to get another announcement about an ipad an ipad pro pretty soon in a few days And it's not like the ipad has I don't think we I think we can say tablets haven't lit the world on fire They're here. They're around. No, there are also another That was yes, it's very appropriate comment But there are other types of devices as well The first ipad was released. I believe in 2010 Early in the year, so it's been a little while and of course the post pc world is what Steve jobs the great prophet Was pronouncing was we were entering with his marveled product It's been about eight years a little bit more. I wonder where we stand. Have we entered a post pc world? I think pcs are still around but Sarah I see you are you are ready to speak up and What do you think are we in a post pc world? Well, I mean we certainly are not because People use pcs every day people are still buying them Yes, the market has slowed and it has changed, but you know, there's plenty of pcs out there It's so no, we're not in a post pc world. However, I do remember You know you mentioned when the ipad first came out and there were all those think pieces about like can this replace my pc I tried only using my ipad for a week And then we got some pretty nice keyboard extensions, right some Some hardware that now this is particularly with the ipad pro and and and your surface pro and and more sort of pro Yeah, there's a lot of hybrids as well. Yeah Yeah, but but I do hear more and more of someone saying oh, yeah when I go on You know at work trip or whatever it's plenty fine It's nice and light and I like the form factor and and versatility and and and that sort of stuff So I do think that the need for pcs to do things has waned a lot I also have friends who Don't have computers or maybe they do but it's like at home and you know half the time It's like can you just text this to me? Sarah? I don't even want to Actually had a friend the other day say can you just text this to me? I don't want to open up my email and I was like, but you have an email app on your phone You know, it's just it's a different way of thinking for a lot of folks That's super interesting. Yeah, because see, uh, I think a lot of people understand the post pc world as PCs disappear I don't think that's really what it means the post pc world to me means the post pc only world meaning The pc is not the only way you access information and it's maybe not even for some people the main way you access information The the the post pc necessity in other words You can do everything just fine without a pc You might choose a pc because it's the best tool for the job still so it's not gone But it's not a requirement But I think there's a difference even in that because for people like us And and i'm sure most of our audience there we're thinking well I still need the pc for many many things and to me it's an essential tool Uh and pc, you know pc mac linux, whatever Um, but for someone like your friend sarah that you were referring referencing I think there's more truth to that statement of being in a post pc world because for her The pc is almost cumbersome It's not that she can do most of the things that she can on the pc on her Uh smartphone because we all know that we can do most of those but sometimes we'll think well We need the pc for to make it more convenient, but for her She'd rather not use the pc Right, so yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, and and I think if you spent Less time Getting to know You know windows operating system as many of us did like I mean I never even had a mac until you know sometime ago But but if you if you've spent less time putting a lot of effort into knowing how all this stuff works Right now It's a harder sell Even if you say well if you're trying to do some video editing and you're really good at it The pc is still going to be the most robust machine Well, but then you've got you're kind of working with this structure and this this Kind of the this ecosystem and syntax that That you didn't like really in the first place or where you where you didn't know how to use necessarily you didn't have a lot of access to Uh, I think that I'm sitting here trying to think of one reason That I would have to use a pc to do this show for example to edit video Which I do for a lot of other things and you know stuff that that I consider You know, it's there is a bit of a learning curve and honestly I could do all of this without a pc I I prefer not to because i'm just comfortable in my ways, but I don't need it That's important to you prefer not to I I want to define post pc as Including laptops and especially two-in-ones right in other words It's not just pc as in windows operating system or macOS or whatever It's I don't need a desktop. I don't need a big tower Because I would say that is yes in the in the in the early 2000s It was well a laptop is really just a portable desktop. That's not true anymore Now you've got all these form factors that yeah, you can still get desktop replacement laptops But they slowly bleed into tablet land And I I think that's an indication of the idea of desktop laptop tablet distinctions are starting to blur Into there's a device that is powerful enough and has the form factor. You need to do what you want But it doesn't have to fall into one of these categories I mean if we wanted to find post pc as post desktop, then I think we're well in the post desktop And that's my problem with this statement That you made tom because to me a surface is still a pc the pc is the complex operating system as opposed to No, because the ipad has a more simple operating system. Just like the phone The blur interface Yes, of course, okay similar interface, but that's where i'm talking about these lines are blurring I don't think they are you have complex interfaces PCs etc and simpler interfaces, which by the way, we don't really have time to discuss it too much But first of all smartphones are where people are going even more than tablets And we might want to include smart speakers in that post pc world, right? Yeah, I guess what i'm trying to say distinction is what's disappearing. That's what means post pc Like it's now about which tool is right for the job not about how do you define a pc? It's also and then yeah, we could go on forever, but it's also, you know, there's there's an aesthetic quality to it I don't have a big tower anymore because I have a small desk and I like smaller things that do what I need to do And you mentioned audio patrick it I just got rid of my speakers that I love because they're just big and they're too big for me now And I can do so much more with just smaller things that take up less space Now if you have a lot of space, then that's a little bit different but I think a lot of people are trying to simplify with with Uh machines that are just they're smaller and and smarter than ever I look at my desk and I'm not trying to simplify But yeah, we're special. So okay, sarah tom and and maybe even roger. Are we in a post-pc world sarahs? Yes or no. Yes Tom. Yes Roger, uh, we're on the cusp Okay, I'd say maybe as well and take a complete cheat totally So two yeses we by by virtue of the uh popular vote. We are in the post-pc world. Thank you very much Um, good work everybody. It's settled. Thanks everybody who participates in our sub reddit You also settle things for us, especially the stories We're going to add to our shows you can submit your own stories and vote on others at daily tech news show Dot reddit.com. We're also on facebook facebook.com slash groups slash daily tech news show All right, let's check out the mailbag. What what do we got in there? They did today? Well, we've got a great Uh response to a conversation that you had yesterday that I unfortunately missed with justin robert young yaron Malaysia had thoughts on yesterday's Ampco discussion and they're being room for smaller indie games and whether or not that was really happening Yaro writes this market not only exists but is actually being served specifically There are indie games or plenty of them in most of the mainstream platforms Whether it be the switch or the ps4 the xbox one or the pc these games are not only cheaper and simpler But aren't as buggy sometimes generally than the bigger triple a games They also tend to be in 2d and have a simpler assets in order to be cheaper to make the real undeserved underserved market in my opinion is mid-range markets games that are not triple a But also not simply simple indie flares There's a japanese developer that continues to publish this level level of games But I feel like the market is just way too divided in those very top and the very bottom Only there were a podcast devoted to people who just want those mid-range and games I I could talk about this for 15 hours. We don't have time I disagree with you Yaru unfortunately I'm sorry one of the main issues of this amico console is that all of the games would be exclusive to it And that will be its death if it comes out like this because you can't develop a game exclusively to a console That doesn't have an installed base. Yes, especially gb patrick. You are limited to certain prices Save it but also thank you We're for teasing try to set up patrick to talk about monthly video games briefing and he's well What is sure to be a lively episode coming up? If you're interested in having more information about all of this and our opinions of mine and scott johnson's What are you doing still fiddling around with your phone? Just go to your podcast app and subscribe to the monthly video game briefing You get one show a month and it is an easy to understand Summary of the important stuff that's happened in the video game industry Especially if you're interested But you don't need all the details and all of the Minutia of each game you need to know what matters what's important for your children or Your your friends who are into these things but not 15 hours per week. That's the show for you monthly video game briefing I'm gonna say that next time stop fiddling with your phone and subscribe to my podcast. Yeah I'm filling with your phone and check out patreon Patrons should know that we have a special threat wire cross post up from shannon morse in both text and audio discussing the changes In tls support in browsers. You can check that out at any patreon level at patreon.com slash dts Our email address is feedback at daily tech news show dot com and thanks to everybody who gives us feedback every day We're also live money through friday. And thanks to everybody who watches for 30 p.m. Eastern 2030 utc Check it out and find out more at daily tech news show dot com slash live back tomorrow with scott johnson. Talk to you then This show is part of the frog pants network. Get more at frog pants dot com The fireman club hopes you have enjoyed this bro It's not that we don't have time. It's just the time Is saved for good day internet Good Internet I think that what we were circling around but that whole post pc discussion is is the problem is how do you define a pc? right And if you define it a certain way you can say we aren't and if you define it a certain way you can say we are But my what I was trying to get to was I think the difficulty in defining it has gotten greater which is an indication that The definition isn't as useful. Which is an indication we're in the post pc I think that at the time it was made Which I think is what matters in in judging whether or not we've achieved it the statement meant Os's of the class of windows and mac os Are pc's and those other things are a new type of device Well, so it's chrome os a pc Or a new type of device I mean, I mean, I would say a new type of device But it's just just a desktop os So I think I think I mean what tom is is essentially saying back in the day At least back when I was growing up in the in the mid to late 70s early 80s and 90s Personal computers as they were known were were labeled home computers. They were essentially Machines that you could bring into the home and use it for personal tasks whether it be entertainment Productivity like I'm doing my taxes or I'm doing my household bills Or I can connect online to a service and gain more information More entertainment or or more productivity help But we're at the stage where the computer is now such a ubiquitous item. It's no longer in a single form factor It's no longer a machine. That's just a keyboard with a monitor. It could be I mean your phone my phone That I have a samsung galaxy s6. I mean this thing is more powerful than You know my my opinion roger sense you siding with tom and I don't like Yeah, you're go ahead roger. Well, I'm just saying like, you know, it's like when people talked about Home audio back in the 30s. I'm sure they were thinking of a large radio That's But no one thought about oh, I'm gonna have a little cassette thing that sticks to my belt And one of these little fancy, you know headbands with you know, foam muffs on them that I get to listen to music But I'm taking taking the trolley to work one example. I thought of that actually It works for patrick's angle on this. I don't even think they're sides We're just both approaching it from a slightly different angle is you know We are definitely in the post horse era, right? There there are no No, no car related things out there that are being done better by horses if we're using horses Horse era man, I heard that differently. Okay, if there are if we're using horses It's because we want to Like maybe in ranching there's stuff that you can't use a pickup truck for you need like I don't know I don't want to speak to it But for the most part if you're using a horse, it's just because you think it's cool to use a horse, right? Uh, and and so we're definitely in the post horse era Unlike the post pc era You can't say that there's no way that you need a pc yet. We haven't got to the Well, it's and it's now you're just trying to disagree with me no matter whether I support you or not patrick No, no, I'm not. I'm just Of course, but yeah, no I think it's I heard you right. That's a good title. We'll call it that Um What was I gonna say? I don't know. I think the climate was made again that statement wasn't wasn't Uh saying with this pc's are going to disappear. Whatever however you define pc Uh, it was the example, you know, the famous example was it's like trucks You're going to still have trucks on the road, but most people are going to be using cars So yeah, but we never had a truck only era No, but it's not an exact one to one. It's just the image that was uh given was pc's would be the heavy duty things and The other devices would be the everyday things we use for everything else You know, it's interesting because I think what's happening is there's a point in time where really, you know Historically, you could point to pc's you can point to mini computers You can point to servers you can to point to supercomputers And they all had a certain level of processing ability That denoted a capability But as technology improved you could get, you know The power of a mainframe and a machine that's set next to your desk And so I think we're at that point where a tablet form factor device can be as powerful as You know, uh, uh mainstream, you know, uh computer As I would buy from Best buy Well, I think the point you made roger that there was a there was a time where Much as you would have an office or a work area where yeah, you pay your bills and you sit at the desk That was the computer was this nifty thing that was part of that world It was it would like it had a place And you did stuff there and then you got up and what when it did something else And obviously That they didn't do the things that they do now I didn't have a laptop even though they totally existed, but I didn't buy a laptop till 2006 because I was doing extended travel and I wasn't going to have an office where my big Huge crt had sat for years And so I was kind of forced into it and then I just never got a desktop pc again Because you get used to it and then you realize oh, this actually does a lot a lot of stuff It's supposed to obviously, you know in those days the laptops Varied as they do now, but I think for a lot of folks it's It's just knowing it's kind of it's almost like 5g. It's like is it going to be great and you'll never look back Well, it's hard to know until you do it The vast number of PCs that were sold in the 90s were sold to people who wanted to write emails Maybe even at least in the 90s and and do word processing Now if that's all you need you can do that on anything You could pick a pc if you want or you could pick a laptop or a two in one or a tablet or a phone You can even kind of do it with a smart speaker So I guess that's like from the pc era A post pc era makes sense as we move into the post pc era The question actually makes less sense. We're like, well, does it even matter like you can do Almost anything with almost anything I can shoot net of video on my phone Does I mean does the interface really matter? I mean you can make the distinctions if you want to but I'm not sure they matter anymore Tom what's that? I will I I want to say this before I leave Actually, I agree. So see I don't always You're welcome and I will wish all of you a pleasant day Roger special thoughts for you as you're battling sleeplessness To be a good father. So congrats And I will talk to you. Oh, not next week actually Well, no, it's the it's the last Tuesday of the month. Yes You're person persona non grata that day. Oh wow, okay I don't know. Is it that way? It's well, no, I'm just teasing. He knows he knows. He's the producer. I see how it is Excellent. I didn't want to be here anyway Whoa, well, I mean Listen, there's a fellow dad who's Tired Yeah What you don't realize is runder and I have a conversation in slack while he's trying to talk to you so I also tried to put on my Tired he forgot the word for tired. Yeah. No, I I love that. What's that word for sleep sleep need sleep He's not speaking me Mid-sentence. I love it. Um, all right. I love you all very much Yeah, say hello to your family for us. Say hello to your little friends All right, bye Is that wrong to call someone's son though? Little friend Hello to my little friend. So oh so yesterday's Yeah, so I changed it. I I fixed it because okay, so this is 33 94 got it. Okay, so we we were wrong yesterday and today Yes, but now we're right. I'm fixing all the mistakes. Okay. Don't forget podcast again. I'm going back through time, tom Like a doctor who is without a planet Man, I did I would I didn't like the first episode because I thought it was kind of like this doesn't feel like dr Do but man the second episode like oh, this is good. I've liked all of them It all felt great to me So much better so much improved even better than tenant in my opinion I'm only on the second episode. I will reserve judgment This last episode was a little hard to get through because it was so real Um, so I didn't love it as much as the first two. I have to I gently I I like tenant and uh, who's the guy before tenant chris eccleston Eccleston, they were the only ones where the doctors the first episode I liked Like coming up at like honestly, I never got I never really glommed on to capalby Matt Smith is my wife's favorite and my least favorite of the new ones He's okay. Capaldi. I liked well enough. I don't know why capaldi just kind of reminded me of the teacher I had Teacher you didn't like that explain it. Yeah I didn't like it's not like some there There there were a lot of teachers that I didn't like but there's just some teachers that you just never connected with And it kind of bugs me because like, you know, you don't know what What's what's the way to say this like, you don't know you don't know where they're coming from and so it always kind of Kind of sticks there and you're kind of like, well, what did he mean? What did he mean? A pc by any other name would smell as sweet I remember reading an article in video game and computer computer video gaming Monthly was like a video game magazine And one of the questions that uh, one of the readers wrote to the editors like I wouldn't have believed it, uh, but you know It's 1989. How come computers aren't as ubiquitous as vcrs stereos Cable tv and the guy went into a very long worded Document and I still think that computers became a must-have item when people started seeing Whatever dot com on commercials or on tv and like I need to be able to see that Well, it didn't they didn't become ubiquitous on commercials until they were useful So you could just you know by transitive say computers didn't become popular until the web Yes Oh, yeah So I want to say Ubiquitous sorry you were saying you were saying you well like like a must-have like you I knew people even well into the mid 90s. It didn't like I don't need a computer If I need to type something I'll go to the library, you know pay my like One dollar an hour to use the computer. I remember giving my old IBM ps2 To a friend of mine because I thought he should have a computer and he just never used it I didn't got him online, but it was you know his dial-up connection I was giving my old computers to my friend and he sold them. So yeah, I guess you need the money Well And didn't find enough of use I mean in college I had a computer that I forget it was a gateway or something something where it was like I had no money and it was like I was on a payment plan Oh, those are the worst But it was something like $15 a month or you know, you know, it was it was RTO it was pretty doable But it was just it was just the way that I had to do it But I you know, I felt like I needed a computer Which I did Um because we were doing, you know, not really you weren't really submitting work via email, but You were connecting to like your fellow classmates and there was a fair amount of that anyway It was mostly to write Papers um when I had to yeah, so it was a word processor And I just like played like free pinball games And you know, you had to sit in your bedroom to do it because the computer was not mobile and I mean, I remember people saying oh Sarah, you know, she's always on her computer But it's like what was I really doing? Not that many different things. It was like a lot of class work and then playing pinball The the biggest time sink I ever came across when I used the computer outside of playing games was Prodigy and use that I was like on it. I would go to school Like school being college go to college and get there like before my class just to use the computer at the library And I would be unused it Well, okay, that's I guess that's yeah, because we're there was the internet by then so I guess I was doing that too I don't know what I was doing though. We had access in one computer lab to gopher But generally you didn't have access to the internet when I was in college We had to we had to pay 10 I used my computer to do word processing for the most part I spent a lot of time on message boards With people who complained about tv shows being canceled Which is still a thing obviously as we know, but it was like that was like where you did it I didn't have my own internet. I wanted to hear about it Then I would get on message boards and talk about shows getting canceled. Yeah Like I was you know, it was like Um, I mean twin peaks coming back. Oh, yeah I mean, I was active on message boards about that since the internet existed It was like that was like the first thing where the twin peaks people Let's all you know get upset and like share pictures of when you went to the town where they shot things and That was very exciting to me because I didn't have anybody around me who cared on that level I was like wow i'm connecting Thankfully, uh, you have us around video people every day. You appreciate you So thank you for watching audio people stick around there's more to come