 Am I audible? Okay. Good morning, everyone. I hope all of you are doing well. Welcome to week 15 of our lesson. This is the second last week of the course and we're almost drawing to an end with the course. Welcome to all our e-learning students as well. Maybe we could start with a word of prayer and probably people would slowly start coming in. Elisha, could I request you to kindly begin with a word of prayer please? Okay, no. Thank you. Our most gracious and everlasting father, we thank you and we bless you this morning for the gift of life that you've granted us. We bless your holy name. Father, we commit our class this morning into your hands once again as you have always been with us and guided us through this period. Father, this time also do excedently above as we expect in the name of Jesus. Father, we pray, commit our pastor into your hands. Lord, continue to flow through her, grant her the utterances and grant us also the understanding and the insight of whatever will be taught here. We pray for our colleagues who are here to join us that Lord. You grant them the grace to join us. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen. Thank you. Thank you so much, Elisha. I appreciate that. Alright, so welcome to those who've just come in and good morning. Yeah, so we're at our second-last class and we just have two more portions, two more pieces of our portion to complete. And today we'll be looking at one of the last special issues in counseling. We've just kind of picked up a few relevant and most important ones that we may commonly face and there may be much more, but we've just picked a few up especially, you know, in our regular ministry of people and leading maybe congregations or just being within a community would be helpful to us. So today we're going to look into grief and grief counseling. And if you'd like to follow with me, we will be on page 51 in the textbook. But before we get started, I think I just want to, you know, have a couple of thoughts and hearing from some of us over here. To first of all, you know, all of us have probably gone through some form of grief at some time in our lives. Now grief, the reference to grief is specifically a loss, you know, a loss of something. It needn't be only death, bereavement is generally what is considered the death of a loved one. But when we're seeing grief, it's a general loss. So it could be loss of many things, you know, it could be maybe the loss of something significant that you've had in your life or even a loved one. So maybe the death of a loved one is something that probably in all probability, all of us have come face to face at some point of time. It may not be a very close personal relationship or it could be, but we've all experienced some form of loss at some time. So in your experience, you know, when you have gone through that period of loss or that period of grief or bereavement, do you remember or can you think about some of the things that people have said to you have been helpful and some of the things that you felt was not helpful or maybe was even bordering on to being very insensitive about some of their remarks or comments. So anyone here, I'm sure some of us have at least heard some people say or you must have overheard somebody telling somebody else who's bereavement and you've kind of felt that that may not have been such an appropriate response. So just opening it out just so that, you know, when we are able to kind of have a base of what we have seen or what we've heard, it helps us in opening up and unlearning maybe some things that we think is maybe normal or, you know, those are general responses that you can expect. So yeah, so opening this out and it would be nice if a few of you could just unmute and say some things that somebody said was helpful or some things that someone said was unhelpful during a time of loss or bereavement. Opening it up. Shall I? Go ahead. Sorry, I don't know who's speaking. Rupa, Rupa. Yes, Rupa. Good morning. Good morning. Yeah, go ahead Rupa. Good morning friend. This is something which is really burning in my heart from yesterday, ma'am. One of my relative, she lost her, only last month they lost their 16 year old daughter to a very bad accident, road accident. She was riding with someone, she fell on the highway and the lorry ran over her. It was very painful, ma'am, and I was not able to, I was feeling very sad at the same time, not able to make myself, make that call to call her mother. But after much prayer, my husband visited them and he said, please give them a call. But when I called her, she was sharing with me, I said, what do you say? I told her I have nothing to say. I'm just, it's something, as you are shocked, I am also shocked. And I don't know what to say. I just called you up to let you know that we are just standing with you. And but I don't even understand the grief and the pain you're going through. But I just wanted to call you. Then she poured out her heart saying how insensitive were people saying that you have another daughter take courage, something like that. And your daughter is in a better place. She's an angel now. All that I understand, but I want my child back. I feel her loss. It's so tormenting. I don't know why I am leaving and breathing and I have not lost my faith. But there are so many questions when God can protect her. Why this way? Why did my daughter has to pay the brunt for someone else's mistake? Something so many things going on in her mind and she is really in grief. I told her you grieve for your daughter because she is part of you and it's not wrong in grieving for your daughter. Because nowadays Christians, they just feel that because they have so many promises when you lose someone, it's not right to grieve. But I think it's a process God has given us this gift of tears or grieving will really heal our hearts. But I don't know why the Christian world that's Christian jargon has made it so insensitive. People are not able to stand with people in their loss. They just go there and start giving them, lecturing them how they should take it and why they should take it that way. I think that is not the place where they should preach. We don't know so many answers. We don't know why. And she is saying, why did I lose my daughter? Maybe I have sinned something like that. I told her if God takes away our children because if he is sinned, no one will have children now. I don't think that is the point. I don't understand but I just listen to her. And when I heard her cry and lamentation, it was really breaking my heart yesterday. I just wanted to tell. Thank you Rupa. Thank you. I think you gave such a beautiful gist of what we're going to be looking at in the next two hours. And I appreciate that you have in your understanding and the wisdom God has given you. You reached out to her just standing by her and just crying alongside with her. I think that's wonderful. Thank you Rupa. That was good. Chaya has written, in my life repeatedly things were happening and I, sorry I can't read this. And those things was happening in those movement. I was in a very bad mental state but I was with God's Word and faith in God. I was not ready to take a doctor's advice. I just remain in my faith in God. Those days I went to APC counseling center. It was encouraging. And as I was able to be still in the Lord and today I'm here stronger and this course is really very helpful. Okay, lovely. Thank you Chaya for sharing that. Thank you. Yeah. Yes. So anybody else would like to bring about any other thoughts about what you've heard as helpful and what you feel is unhelpful to say to those who are grieving. Come on, I'd like some involvement. I'm sure there are things people have said or you've heard people saying. So that's all that we're asking to share over here so that we can connect to what we are also learning. Go ahead. I think somebody unmuted. Yes. Yes, maybe I'll just share one of the... Sure. Go ahead. Yes, I can. Yes. Okay. So I think about maybe about 12 to 13 years ago my I lost my brother. He was a cancer patient. And he was progressively getting sick, got better at one time and then he relapsed and got cancer again and he passed away and at that time I was living in Singapore and we used to have a group of friends, maybe around 15, 20 couples with family and I still remember that when they heard about it, they all wanted to descend and come and visit me as a group, come to my house. I'm not saying that it was going to be 30 people, but it could have been maybe 15, 20 people. And my initial response because of how I'm sort of made up was that I wanted to give in a more sort of a way. So I told them no, I don't want them to come over and they communicated individually. So I guess the point I was trying to make is that there are times when we want to reach out to people who have particular times of grief and we feel that it would be good to go as a group or not to us individually because sometimes it's quite difficult to reach out to people. But it doesn't always work that way and it's not always accepted by the person who's living. So just wanted to make that point here. Thank you. Yes, thank you, Christopher. So I think something that Christopher was highlighting is grieving is a very individual experience. Not all people grieve the same way, take the same time, use the same techniques, but it's all individual related. And the more we can understand that how it presents itself can be very different from one another. We're also more mindful about what we offer and how we offer it. So thank you, Christopher, for sharing that. I think Samuel said just sharing the silence is best, being in the vicinity, just being there. And he says, I feel myself lost for words. So I think we've somehow got an essence of what is helpful, what isn't helpful. And I'm hoping that as we go through the lesson, there will be more things that we pick up and understand. And be careful in the way that we respond. So I think the first and foremost underlying understanding we need to have is when someone is going through grief, there is a tendency for outsiders, for people outside of the core group, like maybe it's a friend of yours or someone who is close to you has had a loss. The fear of what to say, the fear of how am I going to come in as comfort. And because of that fear, a lot of people avoid actually making that call or visiting or attending a funeral because of the discomfort that one feels within themselves of how am I going to face somebody. But I think through stories that this is more than it is academic. These are stories or these are what people have really said is that when somebody close passes away, they're actually looking for people to see who's taken the time and the effort and moved out of that comfort to reach out. Maybe not in any grand helpful way, but just to express support and oneness at that time. So I had a friend who lost his father and he even remembers as he talks about that was a sudden death and when he talks about how many of his close friends were there for the funeral or were there to visit him or pay their respects to his father. And that's something he still remembers. So what we need to understand is when someone is going through grief to know that the discomfort I may be feeling as an individual is something that I take control to manage. But just being able to go there in presence in physical presence or maybe a phone call if you're not able to physically meet someone because there's somewhere else far away. That in itself brings about a sense of that they're not isolated. They're not alone that they've that there's a sense of loss, but they feel the connection. So that's something that you know if you don't pick up anything else. But if you understand this that moving away from your own discomfort knowing that your level of discomfort is very small compared to the pain and the struggle that they may be going through. And if you are able to step in to show them your presence there, it is it's far more it has that process of healing and process of being not abandoned and isolated at the time of need. Okay. All right, so let's I'm just going to just I'll just present my screen. Sorry, just give me a moment. Okay. All right, so we will take. We'll just go through some of this. You know, maybe some of these things are quiet. It's not new, but nevertheless, I think it'll be helpful if we can just look through some of this. So as as we were looking at what is grief grief is it is a it's a normal and it is an expected. It is a natural response to any form of loss. It is something that is please you look at the words it's natural. It's normal. It's expected. It is an expected reaction to any form of loss and bereavement is a type of grief that involves the death of a loved one. So what what takes place in grief is the kind of suffering that one feels when something that has been very important and close to them has been taken away. And this is and whatever the kind of loss maybe now when we're looking at grief, it can be loss of a pet, a loss of a job loss of, you know, a relationship, a loss of some kind of a material asset or whatever so that it can be in different ways. Right. Or even the loss of health. Just the fact that someone understands that they are having a terminal illness and the grief that that they experienced through that. So remember, we're looking at grief in general and not just bereavement, but maybe the focus as we talk about the examples will probably be more when we're looking at bereavement. So it is, as we said, it's a normal reaction to, to the death or to the loss of something. When we're looking at bereavement, we're also trying to see, you know, as a counselor, what is it, you know, what what kind of coping needs to take, take place. So, so what this, there was a psychologist by name, Warden, who divided the bereavement process specifically into four tasks. And this is not a linear one. You know, it is, it's just, it's just placed as tasks, what should take place when someone is grieving the loss of someone of a loved one. So the first is in time as an outcome is to accept the reality of the loss. Now, this does not mean and as we go in through the slides, you will, you will see another process of grieving and then things will be a little bit more clear. But it is to ultimately accept that there has been a loss, the reality coming into terms with that loss, while working through that pain of grief, that it is a process grieving is a process. It cannot be shortened. It need cannot be hurried. It cannot be controlled. It's not something that can, that can be finished off as quickly as possible. Okay, so working through that process of grief, and through that process of grief, helping the survivors adjust to life without the person who has passed away. And also to form some form of a connection. Now, now, even as I say this, okay, it's not occultic. Okay, what I mean by is either through memories, or through, or through forms of, you know, maybe through. Yeah, more through memories and through when one thinks of them, especially at important dates or important times, maybe their birthdays or anniversaries or some special moments to be able to maintain that connection, even as they continue moving on with life. When we look at bereavement, these are what we're looking as the four tasks. So, helping them go through the process of that grief, to be able to adjust to life without the person to be able to accept the reality, and as well as to be able to move on while still having those memories and, and thoughts about the, about the individual. Okay, now when we're looking at grief, we understand that grief affects people differently. And the way a person grieves is generally based on the relationship the person has had with the one who they have lost. Okay, so your grief is, is more intense when the proximity, the intimacy is at a greater level, but a lot more shorter or less, less lived, short lived when it comes to someone who is at a, who may be outside of your circle, your inner circle. We, we also see that the way that people grieve is different. So the, the person who's grieving, it's an individual experience, and how they deal with the loss could also be very different as well. So, even as we are going through the next few lessons of, I mean, next few slides. Now, this is, this is what we're seeing. This is a general understanding, but it is nothing, it is not that people should follow a certain pattern of grieving, but we do understand that grieving can be a very personal experience and can be felt differently by, by people. And it is also based on the kind of relationship that one has shared with that, with one who was lost. Okay. We will just look at certain, what are certain signs and symptoms that we may notice and observe when someone is going through grief. So the initial reactions could be one, could be very strange feelings of shock and numbness, and if, and just the inability to emote. And so, so when we, when we look a little bit more in detail, I'll explain this a little bit more, why does shock and numbness actually happen, you know, does it mean that, you know, they're, they're, they're in a state of, complete denial. So we will look at that. There could also be thoughts of disbelief, of confusion, of a sense that it is not a reality. This is not real. I'm still in a dream. What if I am in a, in a part of a dream, what if all of this, when I wake up tomorrow, all of this is gone. Okay. The mind not being able to grapple with the reality of what has happened. Now these are certain signs and symptoms of grief, and absolutely normal. Okay. Questions of why the, why did such a thing happen? You know, the questions are towards probably God himself, the questions are towards one's ability to not have protected the person, to not have diagnosed an issue earlier, to should have done something earlier. So the questions could be completely varied there again. Okay. There can be feelings of sadness, of anger, of guilt, of loneliness, there can be mixed emotions, fear, nervousness, a lack of confidence, it could, and that can be significant fluctuations of what is, of what's going on. Okay. And maybe there are a couple of days that the person feels a lot better, but maybe when it nears an important day or an important memory, there can be these kind of fluctuating moods that one would see. There's also, there could be blaming that happens, where that someone else was the cause of this, and if this didn't, if that didn't happen, the, you know, the person wouldn't have passed away, or they could have, you know, a sense of feeling that they have the same problem as the one who died, you know, maybe if it is a sense of an illness, long-term illness, somebody's gone through experiencing the same kind of pain or pressure or debilities that the person had, the diseased person had, they kind of sense that. Or, and also, an inability to function normally, no, not able to concentrate, paying attention, having issues with sleep, having significant physiological symptoms of anxiety and agitation and restlessness, and inability to structure thoughts, organize emotions, all of that are very common symptoms of grief and bereavement. Okay. Now, I'd like to bring about, and this is something that is very, you know, especially in the world of psychological science, this is a way to understand grief, and this was bought about by a Swiss psychiatrist, and her name was Kudler Ross, and she introduced this five-stage grief model in one of her books called On Death and Dying. And at the time that she bought about this model, a lot of people opposed this, because they believed that, you know, what she was explaining had a specific order in which people would grieve, and that all people should go through all the stages. But she did state that these stages are not linear, that is, they don't go one after the other. And, or some people may not experience at all, yet others might undergo one or two stages rather than all five or all three stages. So it is, now it's readily known that these five stages of grief are often the most commonly observed in a grieving population. She spoke about these five stages, and it is often known as dabda, which means initially at the time of the loss, it is state of denial, then comes a state of anger, then bargaining, a state of depression, and it plateaus on into acceptance. So we'll just look quickly at each of these stages and just kind of explain what happens in each of these stages for us to identify where someone would be at. Okay, so the first stage is denial. Now it is the stage that initially helps the person to survive the loss. They may begin to feel that life makes no sense, life has no meaning, or even sense that life is too overwhelming. There can be times that they deny the news and go into a place of numbness. So it's also common that in this stage to really wonder how life will go on in the different state. Because the person may be in a state of shock because life, as they once knew, it has suddenly changed in moments. Like for example, if one is diagnosed with a disease, they might believe that the news is incorrect. Or an error has occurred somewhere, maybe in the lab and they mix up blood work with somebody else. Or if the death of a loved one comes about, perhaps they cling to the hope that they identified the wrong person. Or in the denial stage, what happens is the survivor is not living in the actual reality. Rather, they're living in a preferable reality. What if it was this way? So why is there denial and shock? It is a way to help you cope and survive the grief event. What does denial do? It aids in pacing the feelings that one has of grief. So instead of being very overwhelmed with the grief, what happens is there is a process of denying it and not accepting it. So what happens is the effect of it gets staggered. That full impact gets staggered over time and it comes on one at a time. So it is almost like the body's natural defense system that is crying out and saying, this is as best as I can take. So once the denial and the shock starts to fade, that's where the healing process begins. At this point, all those feelings that were suppressed begins to surface. And that's why a lot of times you would see people who come with certain news are not able to emote at all. They feel absolutely numb. They're not able to cry because they are in a place of denial. But then when that face, and it is important for them to go through that face because as I said, for the body or for the mind to take up such a stress can be hard. So it gets staggered in time. The second phase is that of anger. So once the individual starts living in the actual reality again and not in the preferred reality, what kicks in first could be anger. Now this is a common stage where people think of why me or in the life is just so unjust. They may look to blame others for the cause of their grief or they may redirect their anger to friends and family. Or they may just are not able to grapple with the truth of what has actually happened. So people who have strong faith begin to question their belief in God. This is the place of anger. Where is God? Like Rupa was saying, why didn't God protect her? Now research agrees that this anger is a necessary stage of grief. And it is important to encourage the anger. When I mean by encourage the anger is to help them let it out. It's important for them to feel the anger. It's even thought that even though you might seem like that a person is in this complete stage of anger, it will at some time dissipate. And in fact, it says the more that you feel the anger, the more quickly it will dissipate. The more quickly one will begin to heal. It is not healthy to suppress those feelings of anger because it is a natural response. And to experience a grief event, you might feel a disconnection with what it is. That there is nothing to keep you as your foundation because everything has shattered. Everything that was held on to has suddenly diminished. So anger becomes like the strength to bind one back to the actual reality. It becomes like the glue to bind one back to the reality of the situation. There may be feelings of desertion. There may be feelings of abandonment during these events that nobody's there, that you're finally standing alone. And the direction of anger towards something or somebody is what often bridges one back to the reality and begins to help them connect to people again. So it's something to grasp and it is a natural step in healing. So that's the second part of the second process of it. The third one is bargaining. Now what's bargaining? That when something bad happens, we know that we often make a deal. You're making a deal with God or you're making a deal in your... If I get this back, I promise from tomorrow onwards, this is what I will do. If you would heal my loved one, then I will definitely do this much better. I will be a better person. I will love them. So this is bargaining and this stage in some way is called false hope. Because what the person is doing is falsely making oneself believe that you can avoid the grief through a negotiation. If you change this, then I will do this in turn. So it's a sense of desperation that one has to get back their life before this kind of a grievous event and the willingness to make that major life change is like an attempt towards bringing back things to normal. Now guilt often is another important factor or important emotion that comes by during bargaining. This is when they begin to endure those statements of those what if statements. What if I had left, gone there earlier? What if I had driven the car? What if I had asked them to meet with the doctor a few months ago? What if I had said this before I left? So these are all ways of looking at a sense of negotiation and a sense of bargaining that happens. The next stage is the stage of depression. Now depression is commonly, it is an accepted form of grief. Whereas the other shock or denial of bargaining is almost seemed to be pathological or seems to be abnormal. But it is a normal process. In fact, most people associate depression immediately with grief as it is emotion that seems most connected. What does it represent? It represents the emptiness one feels that they are living in a reality and realize that the person or the situation has gone, is no more there. It is the stage that they might begin to keep away from others, withdraw, maybe live within themselves, not really wanting to meet and bridge with others. Everything on the outside looks very overwhelming to face. It can look like nothing makes meaning. You may not, people don't want to be with others. They don't like talking, experience, feelings of hopelessness. Even probably having certain suicidal thoughts, death wishes, thinking about what's the point of going on. So that's the phase of depression. The last stage of grief, which was identified by Kubler-Ross's acceptance. And this acceptance not in the sense is not in the sense, okay, it's okay that the person died rather an acceptance that the person has died and I can move on or I will be okay. So here in this stage is when emotions begin to stabilize and there is a re-entrance into reality. You come into terms with the fact that the new reality is what you're going to have to face or that the reality can be that the person is no more with you or that there is an illness and what is going to happen. And you're okay with all of that. So you don't classify it as a good thing, but this process is helping one to know that it's something that they need to live with. It's a time of a lot of adjustment that the person may have. So even as they go through this phase, it doesn't mean that they're not going to have bad days. Okay, and it does not mean that they will never feel sad again or that they may not tear up or cry or feel that uncontrollable sadness, but the better days will outnumber those sad days or those bad days. And it is at this stage that you begin to start engaging with people, doing tasks and things and making new relationships, understanding and even coming to a place of understanding that the loss, the one who is deceased or who passed away can never be replaced, but you choose to move and start involving yourself into the new reality. So these are generally the stages that she has described. Like I said, it is not linear that one goes into another. Sometimes there can be a skip. Sometimes one may go back to, you know, come back from an acceptance may come back to a bargaining and then again. But it is like a ebb and flow, it is a process in itself. So generally, you know, I think how is it that you can identify is you will hear certain remarks such as this at a denial phase. There is this, the common comment is this can't be happening to me. This is unreal. This is, I'm in a dream. The place of anger is why is this happening? Who is to blame? The place of bargaining is make this not happen and in return I will do something. There's a negotiation there. And depression is I'm too sad to do anything and acceptance is I am at peace with what has happened. Okay. All right. I'll just briefly pause here for any specific questions before we move on. And what, how can we minister? What can we do? Any questions? Yes, Samu. Go ahead. Can you hear me faster? Yes, I can. I can. All right. So, so I understand, you know, how a person may go through these stages and, you know, I'm thinking at. I mean, if I am somehow responsible for counseling, a person who undergoing grief and I recognize these stages, whether it's denial or anger. And I, I understand that this is normal, natural, even healthy for the person to process grief. But I think often what we see is if this person has other dependencies, like, you know, maybe, maybe the husband died, the mother is grieving is in denial or anger, but they are young kids. And, you know, while it's important for the mother to undergo these stages, I can see that it's not having the right kind of effect on the kid. Like the mom's to like the mom's taking too long to reach acceptance and hope because of which the children are getting neglected or, you know, the children, maybe the mom is angry at the kids for some reason for the loss of the father or something where, you know, while it's important for the person to undergo. So, so a is I don't know if we should rush the person to the stage of acceptance or hope is that is that even doable is that is that what I'm supposed to do. Or, you know, so that you know, I think basically I'm looking at the person so while I understand the person who is undergoing these stages but I'm thinking of the dependencies that these people have and normally it's a single parent. Yeah, children. Thank you. Okay, that's a very good question. Yes, we, we do not rush grief. We do not hurry it. We give them the pace to experience the entire process. Because if that is if it is prematurely stunted, then there can be significant issues in that process of healing, which will definitely have long term impact on the dependencies further from there. But sometimes it is a challenge when, especially when the dependence are younger children and the need is a lot more their understanding is limited. So much so it can become insensitive. And so I think I could, I could, I could tell you what fallout that what fallout happens is generally the the the bereaved tends to suppress these emotions, especially like you said, you know, when there is a single parent. There's a lot of expectation now, when you're looking at it, I'm not looking at it psychologically I'm looking at it socially to step up to be this, the stronger parent to be the strength of the dependencies and you know get the act together and get going. There becomes an expectation, and quite often than not, we find that that those single parents begin to, they do not have a choice, but they assume they begin to assume that role. Okay. And you will tend to see the fallout of that years later, where there's a short temper, there's a sense of anxiety, there's a sense of unfinished business. There's, there's a lot of anger that builds up towards society towards the diseased. So that could be some things that we see that that may happen. Now in situations like this, I know it may not be very easy to smooth in every corner to ensure that the mother gets the support mother in this case, if so, gets the emotional support the children are understanding or get their needs or whatever. It may not be possible to do that. But the best that one can figure out and this is something. I mean, this is a live example of someone we knew they had a quite a large family and at the birth of the ninth child was when the mother passed away during the deliveries when the mother passed away. And this father had to look after these eight children. But that's when the whole church community stepped in and started taking practical charge of things around the house. So, and all these children were being homeschooled by the mother. So they were, you know, the church stepped up, started building a roster for things for childcare for home care for whatever was required for a good. I think almost for a good four months post that to help the father, the husband grieve and to also go back to his normal process of work and things like that. So yes, it takes a community sometimes and sensitive community to be able to help deal with this. To expect that a mother or, you know, maybe even a counselor could do the job on their own. I think that that is, that is a that's a misnomer. And that's why you enlist support of those around specially at the time when someone is grieving. So yes, you're right that there can be huge concerns, and the impact could be great. But I mean, I've seen a live example of how people have stepped in and helped the the parent to work through the initial few months of of loss. Yeah, I hope I answered that Samir. Yes, yes, what I'm hearing, I think is that instead of focusing on the parent to kind of go through the stages and in that effort, even somehow rushing them, we let the parent go through the process of grief naturally and rather focus on the dependencies and try and see how they can be supported. So there's a shift in focus. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay, we'll stop for a 10 minute break. It's 10.53 on my clock. We will be back at 11.