 Welcome to Issues and Answers, a production of the Government Information Service. My name is Marvin St. Louis. Today is a very interesting show for consumers as we're going to diverge into consumer education and consumer protection. Consumer organizations around the world are currently faced with a number of challenges in efforts to produce, in efforts to protect consumers and empower them. Some of the major issues globally include how to deal with the fast-changing digital landscape which affects consumers, the growing complexity and diversity of consumer products and services which require more information and education, the globalization and integration of markets which create cross-border issues for consumers and demand more cooperation and coordination amongst consumer organizations. The environmental and social impacts of consumption, which calls for more sustainable and responsible consumer behavior. In studio with me, to answer a few of these challenges faced by consumer organizations, we have Acting Director of the Consumer Affairs Department, Ms. Wendy Fedrick, and the current President of the National Consumers Association, Dr. Louis. Two lovely young ladies. How are you doing today? Good. Thank you. Thank you. We'll get immediately into the meat of the matter and this question goes to both of you. What are some of the main challenges that consumers face in St. Lucia and how does your department handle them or address them? I'll start with you, Wendy. Okay. One of the major challenges are the increase in prices. That's one. We have several. In terms of the quality of goods that they purchase, they face these challenges. There may be some issues. For example, you'll see no exchange, no refund, all of these things. So what we're doing as a department is to try to educate the consumers, try to, for example, with the price increase, we've recognized that some of them are, these challenges are like, it's beyond us. So because we only have, can monitor prices of goods that are price controlled and they're listed on the distribution and price of goods act. So while we have no control over all, so what we try to do is to educate, let consumers know, to shop around what to do, what to buy. So it's a lot of education that needs to be done, a lot of communication. If they have issues, they can come to the department with goods when, you know, you have an issue with a business, so they can visit the consumer affairs department, make a complaint if they have any issues, or, you know, they're getting difficulty with a business. So all of that, we're there too, and we're available to help and address these needs. And I must say the department has recently ramped up consumer education. We see all over the news, we see the deputy director. How has that been going for you? Do you see any benefits from it before I get to Dr. Lewis? Yes, we have seen some benefits. And then what we do now is that, because we've launched that, we get a lot of calls now. We get consumers understanding a bit more, so they're able to communicate, they call the department, they report. So we get a lot of calls right now on different issues because they recognize some people will say, oh, we didn't even know the consumer affairs department existed. So one of the things, for example, in March earlier this year, we observed, we'll consumerize the empowering consumers through clean energy transitions. That was one of our, that was the theme. And we actually had an expo in the Constitution Park. So we were educating people there, and even there you'd find people saying, hey, we didn't know about the consumer affairs department. So now we get people more aware that they actually have some form of redress. They have this avenue for redress, which is the consumer affairs department. So it has helped a lot. Talking about not knowing about the consumer affairs department, Dr. Lewis, what would you say about the national consumer association? Because I think a lot of people may say they don't know there's another agency or sometimes they think there's one agency. Your agency might even be considered a consumer affairs department. As a name they know, or the consumer affairs department might even be considered a national consumer association. People don't realize there's two different agencies. What do you say to this and what, as I said, what is your department doing to address the current consumer issues in St. Lucia? Okay, first there are several consumer issues in St. Lucia that our department or the national consumer association is working collaboratively with the consumer affairs department. One of them is price gorging. I don't think we have any control over price gorging, especially in items that are not price controlled. So a lot of the merchants are taking advantage of that situation. There are exponential increase to prices. And we've recognized that it's not a St. Lucia scenario. It's a global scenario. We also have quality of goods. That's a challenge that we have to face. Also the authenticity of goods. For example, there are fake medications that sometimes you only get to know about them from the more developed countries. And sometimes we have depots in which they can be offloaded. But thanks to the consumer affairs department and institutions like the Bureau of Standards who are the watchdogs, the gatekeepers to ensure that we are not proliferated with those fake items. But if an individual brings it and says, you know, you have organic medication, herbal medication, if it's just sold to consumers without being in the public hemisphere, then we have no control over it. But it still remains a challenge. Also merchants displaying signs, no exchange, no refund. This is illegal. It is unconstitutional. According to our Labour Act in Sinusha, which was passed in January 2022, you cannot display a sign saying no exchange, no refund. Because according to the Act, the three hours have to kick in. If you put something that is not compliant to your needs, or it doesn't meet the requirements or the quality of the standard, it is refund, replace or repay. Any of those three hours have to happen. Doctor, before you move on, sorry to cut you off. How do you think we should address the issue that these signs were? I, too, was faced with this sign at a local business. How do you think, or do you think it's the best we've had to address this issue? Well, I'm hoping with the systems that the Consumer Affairs Department have put in place, their monitors, their Consumer Affairs officers, will be able to visit those places and let them know that these signs are unconstitutional. They should not be erected. Because if somebody purchase an item from you that is default, defunct, you have a responsibility to take it back. Another challenge that consumers face, and I say that from the perspective of the National Consumer Association, with reports that we get from consumers, is buying an item and a merchant will tell you it has no warranty, especially if it's an electrical item. Every electrical item has a warranty. It could be six months to one year, but it has a warranty. And if somebody purchase a fan, and after two weeks the fans stop working, you have a responsibility to replace it, repair it, or refund it. And consumers need to understand what their rights are. And to your question, to what the Consumer Association is doing, we are embarking on different educational drives. For example, prior to Consumer International Day, we did some television appearances. We were at NTN with the Minister of Commerce. And now we have collaborated. Consumer Association and the Consumer Affairs Department have had one of its best relationships ever since Mrs. Frederick became the acting Consumer Affairs Director. She actually reached out to our department, our association, before our association would be the one reaching out. But this time it came around that she decided to reach out. And let's see how we can collaborate, because it's very easy to cross borders as an association and as a department, because we more or less represent the consumers on the same things. If a consumer has a problem, they can either go to the Consumer Affairs Division or they can come to the National Consumer Association. So really we are the advocates. We are non-governmental. We are private sector, more or less institutionalized. So a consumer could come to us with an issue. And if we cannot address the issue, we would refer them to the Consumer Affairs Department, where you would have the Consumer Council and the Consumer Tribunal to mediate on behalf of the consumers to an extent that the advocates cannot. Let's quickly talk about the rights and responsibilities of consumers, as some persons may not be aware, and it would be in the best interest to know about their rights as well as importantly, the responsibilities when shopping. Could you address consumers' rights and responsibilities? What is in place for consumers? Okay, so basically consumer rights, we have to ensure that as consumers, we have the right to safety. We have several. The right to safety, the right to information, you must be informed as a consumer and show that whatever information that you're receiving is honest and truthful. The right to choose, you can select, you have a choice. The right to satisfaction of basic needs and show that all your needs are met basically. Right to redress. So again, as we said, the Consumer Affairs Department is there to receive and show that you receive a fair settlement of your claims. The right to consumer education, which is what we're trying to do now to educate. So as consumers, we have seven rights. The right to a healthy environment, we have to make sure that then, but however, as consumers, you also have a responsibility, right? So you must be responsible, know, choose, know what you want to buy. So all of that, we must ensure that consumers are responsible. Compare prices, don't just go to just, and one of the things that we recognize too, you go to a store and you'll get an item. It's not in English, right? You're trying to figure out. So you have a responsibility. You need to report that because you need to know what you're buying. If you're reading something, it's not in English. You know, probably, I've seen some, is it Chinese languages, these different things? You know, you need to know what you're buying and that kind of thing. So ask questions. You have the responsibility and the business establishments, they have the responsibility to answer and address your questions. So these are basically some of the things. Dr. Lewis, before we go to a break, do you think consumers are being responsible and has that effect the way they shop and they face a lot of consumer situations with business places? Do you think there's a lack of responsibility by consumers? Yes, in my opinion, I believe that there are consumers that do not take responsibility for the action. Yet still they want to address. And sometimes they take their address to social media and not to the institutions that can assist them. That's why we want to try our best to have consumer education, which is the right of the consumer. Consumers have a right to examine goods thoroughly. Persons just pick up anything from the supermarket shelf and sometimes even when it's decayed or defective, they just talk, talk, talk and do not return it. I'll give you a case in point. I went to a particular supermarket and I bought a packet of plums. When I got home, I opened the bag, of course it looked good on the outside but you cannot see what's in the middle. And several of those in the middle was decayed. I took it back to the supermarket. Now I know persons who have done that and they say, oh well, we don't take back fruits, but you have a right to take it back. Because first it was an imported fruit. I could not have seen what's inside because I couldn't open the bag at the supermarket. So we have that responsibility. They have a responsibility to read. You're about to purchase something, for example, medication or anything. You cannot read the instructions because it's in a foreign language. You have a responsibility to go to the Bureau of Standards, report it or the Consumer Affairs Division because you're purchasing an item that you cannot understand what it is. They have to ensure that they get a bill or receipt. How can you be refunded or you return an item if you did not ask for a receipt? A business place cannot tell you they cannot issue a receipt. Once you're going to do exchange of goods or services for money, you have to issue a receipt. They have a right to communicate, not to be obnoxious or disrespectful, but to exercise their rights and carry out transactions in a business like man and not a number. So consumers must understand what their responsibilities are. You will not be able to get redress if you do not understand your responsibilities. And merchants, suppliers of goods and services will continue to take advantage if persons do not speak up. So we all are consumer advocates. And that's why as a consumer association, we encourage persons to be part of that advocacy voice because there is strength in numbers. If 10 people were to go to a business place to purchase something that was default and they had to take it back, and they stand together and say, I'm going to bring it back. And that sign you have there is illegal or unconstitutional. It would be better than just one person trying to do it. And we find as an association, persons only know the consumer association is effective when they have an issue. So we're trying to ensure that we can educate the public with their rights and their responsibilities. So we all become advocates. Thank you for that, Dr. Lewis. When we come from the break, we'll deal with some consumer case studies and how best to address them. We'll be right back. Welcome back to Isha's Answers. My name is Marvin St. Louis. How do you think we should do this? When we're in a business place, we should do this, because we're the only ones who can do it. But the only thing we do is to do this, because we're the only ones who can do it. We're the only ones who can do it. So I think we should do this. We're the only ones who can do it. How do consumer agencies collaborate with stakeholders to promote consumer protection education? And tell us some of the other consumer agencies, organizations that are available in St. Lucia. For example, we have Solid Waste, if it's for garbage or waste. Could you tell us more about that? Yeah, we have a few agencies that work along with us. Of course, we have the National Consumer's Association. We have the NTRC in terms of telecommunication. Nook? Nook, yeah, we have Nook. So we collaborate with these other agencies to, as we say, because we have Bureau of Standards, for example, because some of the things that they're not under our jurisdiction, however, we work along with these other agencies to ensure that consumers benefit or reap the benefits of these. Just give me an example of how does that work. For example, okay, Dr. Lucia spoke about you purchasing an item that's not in English. So I'm a consumer. I come to the Consumer Affairs Department. How does that collaboration work? Okay, so for example, that example that you just gave, something is not in English, somebody comes to us. We will not be in a position to be able to, so what we will do will contact the signature Bureau of Standards. So this is the relationship that we have with these agencies. So what they would do is go and look into the matter and then they would address it and, of course, give feedback. For example, even items that are recalled, you might get items that are recalled internationally. We get these things. We collaborate with the Bureau of Standards to see how we can address it, matters like that. So basically we have good working relationships with these other agencies. Anything you'd like to add? And with the National Consumer Association, we are a member of the Global Consumer Association, which is called Consumer International. Consumer International is an advocacy group globally for countries, more developed countries, less developed countries, and developing countries. So what we do is compare case studies in consumer international. They carry out research, what happens in the more or less developed world. What are the things that affect consumers? A lot of legislation starts with Consumer International because they look at legislative documents from throughout the world and which ones have commonalities. There is a Congress where you get for the education and what happens globally if consumers. So it's really an education forum. There's more education and advocacy, but looking at it from different countries where you compare case studies, where you do time series analysis on how consumers get affected. So like the Department of Consumer Affairs, we also collaborate with NOC, NTLC, Senatorship Rural Standards. It depends on what the consumer issues are. We would know which agency that we should collaborate with, but there is that synergy between all of the stakeholders when it relates to consumers, their rights and their responsibilities. And just to add, even with the OACS and CARICOM, we have good working relationships. So they very often collaborate CARICOM OACS Commission. We collaborate, we have meetings, they try to educate, and we try to work along with other islands within the CARICOM and OACS. So we have really good working relationships with St. Kitts and these other countries. We discuss, we try to see what's common, like issues among consumers within OACS, within CARICOM and try to see how we can address it as CARICOM and OACS. So we work along with other international agencies. And just to add recently, we have held several meetings with CARICOM where they try to bring in members of the OACS. Together, to develop, understand issues of consumers, for example, St. Vincent is about developing a consumer association. So we partner with them, like sisters, to assist them through the process, setting up a consumer association. Since we mentioned case studies in your point, let's get to some practical case studies situations, especially in St. Lucia and how, as consumer organizations, they were addressed. Dr. Lewis, you're telling us about the case study or before we started? We have several case studies, but I will choose the bigger one, where most persons do not know their rights and responsibilities. We had a consumer who came in with an issue of purchasing a four by four from a particular car dealer. And they got issues with the vehicle from day one. And it was up and down with that car dealer, very reputable car dealer, and they refused to address the situation apart from taking it, checking it out, giving it back to them, but the vehicle was faulty. And of course, one of our consumer officers, because we do have officers at the National Consumer Association, trained in consumer affairs. And of course, went with that particular consumer to the car dealer. Of course, by that time, the consumer had a file with all the issues of the vehicle, and they had to take it back, because according to the Consumer Protection Act, you have three hours, repair, refund, or replace. And they had to replace the person's vehicle with a new one. After that, consumer had the vehicle for about three months. With issues, bring back, take back, check that, check that. They had to take it back, because it was a fault, to no fault of the consumer. The consumer didn't do something to the vehicle. They had an issue from day one which they reported to the car dealer. So we have several case studies where we got redressed, and we got redressed according to the law, not according to, because as a car dealer, you really don't want to be hauled to court, have your name plastered all over social media with a particular vehicle type, which they may have been away, had a fault from day one. So why do you quickly, why do you think it was this resistance to provide that redress in the first place when these issues first came up by the deal? You see, because a lot of us consumers do not know our responsibilities. So probably, you know, persons would have had purchase vehicles before, and they got the stress if it, and they just dealt if it probably brought it to a mechanic, stayed with it until it frustrated them enough to sell it, because they didn't know their rights. But that particular consumer knew his rights and responsibilities. So he stood his ground and came to an association who he knew would have advocated on his behalf. We did not even have the opportunity to call the consumer of his department. Who is our next step if we cannot get redressed for a problem? But the car dealer just took back the vehicle. We've had quite a bit of successes in terms of our cases. Generally, the business community would cooperate. So, for example, we had somebody who bought a school shoe, and within the first three weeks of going to school, the shoe was damaged. And the consumer was able to get a replacement for the shoe. We've had, for example, all of the issues that we get to our electronics. So washing machines. Recently, we had one with the washing machine. But the consumer purchased that washing machine, and it was, apparently, it had some issues, but it had to do with the place that they had it. I think it had to be in a sitting position. They had to build certain things around it. And even with that, the business was willing to cooperate and really assisted them in getting it repaired, despite the fact that it may have been on their end as well, where they didn't position it properly, it got damaged. But then they still agreed. But a lot of the time, like previously, before the legislation, the Consumer Protection Act, which was enacted in January of 2022, what we would have done was to solve most of our cases through moral coercion, that this is how it was done. So you come, you make a complaint, then we intervene, we discuss. However, with the enactment of the Consumer Protection Act, which was in January of 2022, what we did, the Consumer Protection Council was established, as well as the tribunal. So the complaints and investigations officers within the Consumer Affairs Department would receive a complaint, carry out their investigation, and then they would get their report and forward it to the council, who would now be the ones to intervene and discuss and review the cases, and they would now do that. And if they're unable to come to a settlement with the businesses, this is where the tribunal is. So it's basically like a court, because again, looking out for consumers, we know that a lot of them maybe cannot even afford to go to the court and stuff. So we have the tribunal who is there available to do that. And then the final thing, of course, if the tribunal is not able to, then we allow them to go to the commercial cost. But this is all part of what the department and the Ministry of Commerce is doing as a whole for consumers. Final question, ladies. One minute for us to wrap up. What are some of the best practices and tips you can share with consumers to help them make more informed choices in the marketplace? Any one of you? You sure how to give? I think we both addressed that already. Yeah, but you have to give one major tip. Could you please, let's end there. So consumers could, give us a tip that consumers need to look out for best practices, they need to look out for... I believe consumers need to educate themselves. Yes, educate. It's very important to educate yourself on what are your rights and your responsibilities. You have to be able to examine goods before purchase. You have to be able to choose what you want. Read. You have to be able to read. You have to be able to buy goods based on needs and not wants. So the priority must be needs, and then wants would follow. And then you should know your rights. Do not just pick up something from the supermarket and then just blame the supermarket. You have a choice. If it is too expensive or you believe there is price gorging on that particular item, then you have a choice to purchase it or not to purchase it. You purchase it if it's a case of life and death. If it's not, then you leave it. Because sometimes we have to make statements as consumers. We have to make statements. You go to the market, somebody have a pair for $20, you don't just pick it up and say, cost of living high and sad blaming the government because you purchase one pay for $20. You might be an avocado paying. You might be surprised you go two vendors down and you get that same avocado for $5. So we must exercise our choices because we have that. And if we all exercise our choices and we know what our rights are, a lot of the suppliers of goods and services will not take advantage of us. That's a good way to end. Yes. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us on this episode of Issues and Answers with two consumer agencies in St. Louis. My name is Ma. Thank you.