 Hello and welcome to this Australia Papua New Guinea Network special event here at the Lowy Institute. My name is Jonathan Pike and I'm director of the Pacific Islands program here at the Lowy Institute. I'm coming to you today from the lands of the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation and I would like to pay my respects to their elders past and present. I'd also like to thank the supporters of the Australia Papua New Guinea Network project for their ongoing support, the Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade and our event sponsors Bank South Pacific and Coca-Cola Amatul. We're pleased to be able to host this event today to talk about the biggest issue in the P&G-Australia relationship at the moment, the global pandemic of COVID-19. Papua New Guinea has been particularly hard hit by the Delta variant of COVID-19 in recent weeks. An explosion of case numbers in the Highlands and the nation's capital has sent alarm bells ringing with the true picture of caseloads throughout the country remaining murky at best. To discuss the latest on COVID-19 in P&G, along with a number of other pressing issues for Australia's nearest neighbour, I'm pleased to be joined this afternoon by Gary Juffer, governor of the Eora province in Papua New Guinea. Governor Juffer was elected as governor and a member of P&G's parliament in 2012 and is leader of the People's Movement for Change Party. A prominent and outspoken member of the opposition through the Peter O'Neill years of government, Mr Juffer joined the Marape government in 2019. Being a member of the government hasn't stopped Governor Juffer from being an outspoken representative, asking the tough questions on politics and governance, leadership and the environment. Gary Juffer, thank you for joining me. Now Governor, we've caught you in a very unique position in Glasgow as part of P&G's official delegation to the COP26 negotiations. I do want to come back to climate change and what's going on on the ground in Glasgow in a moment, but instead want to start with a snapshot of how things are going back home. How is the current COVID situation on the ground going? What are the biggest challenges facing authorities in responding to this crisis? Well, firstly, the usual challenges that are facing all governments worldwide. For example, the capacity, you know, we just simply don't have enough health workers in all the electorates, in all the provinces, in all the districts, in all the hospitals, district hospitals, aid posts and health centres. So that's the first. Secondly is the information management or the management of the information space. I feel, and I have to admit and I will probably be disciplined for this or review for it, but the fact of the matter is, we have not managed the information space as well as we should have, you know, and had we done that, then, you know, you would be, you would be ahead of the crowd in terms of basically informing them about what is going on. Today's world where information is so readily available, people can access information, misinformation and disinformation in an instant, you know, it's at their fingertips. And, and they are those who are mischievous and they are those who will, you know, propagate false information fake information misinformation disinformation deliberately. And promote it with in great haste, and also the elements of influence in society such as churches and community leaders, you know, youth leaders and tribal leaders. They need to have been engaged and this did not happen as quickly as we ought to have, you know, and had we done that then you know I think we would have seen greater vaccination rates. But there's huge hostility to vaccines, and primarily because people are suspicious because they don't know what's going on. And they don't know what's happening and one of the consequences and they're reading all this fake information false information misinformation disinformation and it's, it's creating anxiety and you know hostility and, you know, an aggressive hostile reaction to government efforts. And it does seem like this information is moving even faster than the virus is through through Papua New Guinea at the moment, and many, many people in P&G even don't even believe that the virus is real but you yourself had your own battle with COVID earlier this year what would be your message to those that still don't believe in this virus. Well, it's very real. I mean, it is, it is absolutely real. I, it was the worst experience I've ever had, you know, and I've never felt like, you know, this could be it. And I'm saying this now, but at that time it was, I felt that you know and I'm, I'm a fairly healthy person I manage my diet I exercise and I keep a, you know, relatively reasonable fitness regime. And so, if it affected me that way I thought man it really affects a lot of other people differently I'm sure those who answer well, you know, but I can tell them it's very real. And, you know, the, what, what a lot of people need to consider is the fact that they've got to be there for those who they are responsible for, you know, for myself. I, after getting it I went and got vaccinated after the tyrants was given by the doctors. And the reason for that was because I wanted to demonstrate that this is the responsible thing for you to do so that you can be there for your children for your people those who you love and care about and are responsible for they need you out. So, if that's my message to the people do that. And it's very real I mean four million plus deaths around the world is nothing to snooze at that's, that's no joke. You know those are real people that died that's not those are fake coffins. Those are fake dead bodies. Those are real dead bodies those are real people that have died and they've died from COVID. And so what will be your message to what are you, what conversations you're having with with your government with with Prime Minister Marape about what more the png government can be doing to help turn this misinformation around turn this vaccine hesitancy around. I've said this many times I'm sounding like a broken record myself and a few others have been saying this manage the information space. This is a team of people that are going to be sitting on social media countering this misinformation this information just responding to it, everything and anything just hammering it home this is an information war that we're fighting and we are losing. Fight that war with information relevant factual, easily understood information, you know, and do it in a way where people will be satisfied that you're not bullshitting them that you're not, you know, trying to pull the wool over their eyes but give them facts details and incredible people to do it get doctors to do it scientists to do it, you know, and people who they would look up to religious figures for instance get them to come and and engage with them, you know, I mean it's not too late to fight this war and win, but an effort needs to be made, you know, and you may need to spend some serious money but you know you're going to save lives. The message I've been giving and also, you know, we've got to also understand that as much as possible, maintain health services because the other diseases aren't going to take a break, you know, malaria and pneumonia and TV and all these guys aren't going to say you know what covid they're going to take a break for a little while. No, they won't they, they're going to keep marching. So you've got to treat those as well. So to do that the district hospitals and eight post health centers need to be fully equipped. And your staff, the healthcare workers who have been such an ignored lot for too long, they've been ignored they haven't, the pay hasn't improved significantly the benefits aren't, you know, in place. They've been seriously taken care of you know if anything this is a huge wake up call. And also it's a, it's an opportunity to review our different national department of health, which has been deteriorated, and has been decimated by corruption for so many years that it is basically not a responsible functioning entity as it ought to be, providing to the expectations of our people. Well, the health system is an issue in an area that you've been so vocal on for such a long period of time and you're in your career as a politician and in Papua New Guinea. What do you think would be the first steps in turning around the country's health system and cleaning up misappropriation of funding and corruption you've been speaking about what would be the first steps. The first steps would be to look at the public accounts committee reports that were tabled, and they were not just the final report, but reports that were tabled along the way during the inquiry, and we shown the spotlight on the procurement committee and the processes in the report that we identified the individuals, you know, and nothing has been done about this. You know, nothing has been done about those individuals we identified the companies that were involved in corrupt dealings and nothing has been done in fact many of these companies are still operating, still engaged, still providing, barely providing I would say goods and services and they're still there you know. That's what happened about this, I would say that the emergency task force of some sort has to be set up. It probably shouldn't be the Department of Health overseeing this the Department of Justice should be in charge, and we should bring good credible people in and say we need to deal with this. Now meanwhile the procurement system under the Public Sector Reform Committee, Special Parliamentary Committee on Public Sector Reforms which I chair, I have said we will need to create a space where donor agency development partners can come with together and establish a procurement system that can actually work in function for the people of Papua New Guinea because right now National Department of Health has totally failed the people of Papua New Guinea. Not only has it failed them but it's failing to correct the, you know, the situation that it is in, even when we have highlighted that situation to them and delivered a set of recommendations as to how they can improve. It seems like very tangible first steps there governor. Now the COVID crisis is developing in the shadow of a looming election scheduled for the middle of next year with campaigning already in full swing up in Papua New Guinea. What are you talking about? The logistics of undertaking, the logistics of undertaking. 2017 sorry that was the moment and election is over they already campaign you already back at it. I mean the logistics of the logistics of undertaking an election in Papua New Guinea are challenging in the best of circumstances. But what impact do you think COVID will have on the nation's ability to conduct elections next year. It's actually challenging many of which we can only predict, you know, since we've never had COVID before situation like COVID, but it will, you know, I'm, I'm nervous about these elections to be honest. I don't know how we're going to manage them in such a way that we can deliver the results that the people deserve, you know, although it is said that people get to, you know, members they deserve because of how they both but that's another discussion. You know, in regards to the logistics it's a nightmare. What happens is after every election, they should be an immediate review of the previous election. And they should be an effort to correct all the mistakes and put in place, you know, risk management strategies to ensure that these mistakes aren't repeated. That never happens. That never happens until the last moment, you know, the electoral commission is completely left alone and no one checks on them as to what they're really doing and that these reviews don't take place as far as I know. And, you know, I mean, every year the election every election year the costs just escalate to a ridiculous amount and we're staring at a massive, you know, budget for the elections and it's, it's at a time when it's almost like blackmail you know if you don't pay this that guess what we might not deliver the elections that type of, you know, attitude is what I sense. It's worrying and, you know, I think if we haven't learned from the last elections then we're in for a rough time. There'll be more violence, more deaths and more elections that are going to be very suspect, I would say. Well, let's all hope that that situation turns around quickly and a good time before the elections do take place. I mean, as you know, as you and I both know all elections in Papua New Guinea are local at the end of the day it's all about local issues but what do you think will be the bigger national issues that are going to help shape this this election. Well, the people will look at how COVID was handled for sure. They will look at also commitments and promises made and whether those commitments and promises were kept or not but again that will be the those who are, you know, somewhat educated. The masses will still vote along tribal lines, clan lines and that's, again, you know, always the danger. That's usually the big chunk of the voting population, how they think, you know, how barreling has already been in, you know, in process and progress since 2017. And, you know, there'll also be in the usual hotspots, the highlands, certain parts of the highlands that will be the, you know, possibility of ballot box hijacking and intimidation and you know, et cetera, et cetera, violence that goes with it, all of that might happen. But, you know, we can be optimistic, we can hope for the best but expect the worst. Well, I'm personally going to keep hoping for the best. Governor, I now want to shift this conversation from from talk about one crisis to another and in many ways a more intimidating crisis that of climate change. You've recently arrived in Glasgow for the COP26 climate change negotiations. How do you see climate change affecting your people and affecting Papua New Guinea going forward. I think it has been a victim of climate change for a long time and in that one we are seeing the disappearance of our coastal areas, our atolls. You know, we've had to accommodate the first climate refugees in transporting people from the Catron Islands to mainland, you know, so that they could resettle because the Catron Islands are no longer livable. The Catron Islands affected the island to such a degree that you can't plant crops, you can't live there anymore. Then you've got issues such as the flooding that's taking place in, you know, river areas where rivers are. And these floods are no longer the normal types of floods that people were accustomed to and could predict and could manage. They're different, you know, they're very devastating, they're destructive. And then you've got king tides you've got we've seen firsthand a lot of the effects of climate change you've seen global temperatures rising in highland areas. So mosquitoes are now making their way up bringing with them all the diseases that they carry, you know, and the people in those areas are not immune to this disease they don't have. They haven't developed obviously, natural immunity yet so they're prone to, there's a lot of deaths taking place in these areas from these diseases brought up by these mosquitoes who can now migrate up that way. And, you know, I mean, it's happening, you can sense that there's something going on going wrong. The problem with that is the illegal longing that keeps taking place of no one should do anything about that. We should also note here the governor's strong track record as a conservationist and advocate for pngs forests and wildlife. To hear more on this topic the governor will be talking on a panel in Glasgow next week on November 8, called exposing the timber mafia. Governor, do you want to give us a little hint at what you'll be talking about next week in that event. I want to highlight the fact that many of these companies are not companies at all. You know, we call them companies we call them investors they're not they're going to criminal cartels that's what I call them. That's what they are, you know, and I'll keep saying that they are, they take me to court. In fact, they do take me to court. In fact, they found a very clever way to use our court systems to tie us up. So I've been tied up in court with all types of cases that they've thrown at me. When I come in court, the log steel, you know, get shipped out because that's the agenda, they don't care about, you know, whether we're right or not, all they care about is shipping their logs out. Millions and millions of dollars worth of logs are leaving our shores. And if you dare to question them, first and foremost, the government systems that were established to protect png interests, and specifically in this space forestry. They're not going to step up and help you they'll turn a blind eye they'll look again away. In fact, not only that they'll fight against you, they'll side with the cartels. That's because the cartels have basically compromised all these organizations, they own these organizations, these organizations no longer work properly they work for them. You know, and what's frightening is that these cartels are diversifying into other business, they're going into property they're going into banking they're going into all types of businesses. You know, I would say it's like a covert recolonization program that they've undertaken and successfully successfully and the greatest success is the fact that not many people understand this or know this or care about. Well, Governor, it sounds like that event next week is one not to be missed I look forward to being able to tune in myself. I've covered a lot of ground here today from COVID to the election to climate change. I wanted to end on a bit of a more personal note, Governor, if you will. What message would you have for a young Papua New Guinea and that might be tuning into this event and wondering how they can shape their country in these uncertain times. Your country is so worth saving. It is a beautiful country. It is blessed with the most amazing abundant resources that is the envy of countries worldwide. And it's so worth fighting for. And you have good people on the good people that at all levels at the village level, you know, at the educated level at the youth level at the elder level that's good people but what needs to happen is this good country can't keep standing up alone they all need to come together and they all need to say right this country is so worth fighting for, and they need to develop strategies as to how they're going to do this. And they've got to start thinking about politics they've got to start thinking about the difference between politicians and leaders and work on getting leaders into parliament there's a distinct difference a politician is all about delivering classrooms and roads and bridges. That's to him the minimum so he can get reelected it's not thinking about the future too much a leader will think about the future, the future, where there can be prosperity security and opportunities for everybody and a safe secure natural environment to work in. Governor Jufa thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you very much Jonathan you have a great day. Thank you to Governor Jufa for joining us and remember that we publish a daily news summary at our os png network website to help you keep tabs on the latest from Papua New Guinea. Thanks again to our event sponsors BSP and Coca Cola amateur for their ongoing support for the os png network and to the Department of Foreign Affairs and trade for his ongoing financial support. We'll be back soon with another os png network event. I look forward to seeing you then.