 So, welcome to this year's off-session about publicity at BOSS. I have planned to give a small introduction about where we improved last year. Hi. Hi. Do you want to join us? No. I want. A small introduction about the last year where I think we have made progress, which points are still open or even a major problem. And, well, that will take five to ten minutes, I think. After that, open discussion about all that. So, anyone watching the IRC channel? Which IRC channel do you want to watch? We're not having feedback by... So, no things from the channel. Oh, okay. Well, if somebody wants to keep track of it, that would be great. We're not officially supporting it. We could announce on the camera that we're officially expecting some feedback. Yeah. We are expecting feedback by then. Which channel are you watching? I don't really know, but I could watch the depth conflow above. Okay. Depth conflow above. So, there should be a problem if you can't read the slides over the screen, because it's only one slide and I'm going to read it anyway. So, before we start the last year, we have some kind of second spokesman who can send stuff to the TV announcement list and the TV news mailing list. Otherwise, it would be me. Can you do a better title than Spokesman? Which I always thought is some kind of official or delegate, but I'm just the one who is preventing the password for that. Tell me. Okay. He'll tell me that I'm allowed to say I'm the spokesman, but it's okay. Okay. One problem solved. No, we need a spokesman to see whether or not you can be the spokesman or a spokesperson. Okay. As I progress through the last year, the TV and publicity list was founded. Thanks to most of you guys who had the idea. I think, especially during the creation of the announcement of F, it proved to be worth the effort. So, the feedback we got, because that list was very well received. Actually, sometimes I think this list is... is working too well, because there are guys on the post continuously reading various newsletters. I just, hey, guys, please have a look at that, and wouldn't it be a good idea to put that up on Prime Studio Net that they're so... being taught from... being taught from Flicet. That's basically of English. They're doing it constantly, but sometimes, well, can't keep up with that. But I seem to be coincidentally in having the places in which I need to find things out and it wasn't the necessary education at the time that it was, in 32 to my time in the brain, mainly with Mr. Greer. Okay. And very briefly, what's your thought on that? To improve the publicity, of course, we have a debate. Mainly about... To improve the publicity. Yeah. Mainly related to recipes and press content. If someone wants to talk about it, about events or whatever. Disappointed? No, not at all. Okay. But, well... It's a good thing, it's a good thing. It's not important. It's a good thing later. Right. We don't like that to happen. Okay. I didn't get in the lower room on that upper... Yeah, fine. So... Yeah. We have some publicity, please. We are still missing some kind of publicity-private list. We are often getting invitations or commons, which we would like to share with other people, which are not really suited for giving private, for the main private list, but for all publicity, for all publicity-related folks, which includes non-medies, and which is just political to be sent to a deviant private. Sometimes that stuff is not yet intended to be published. For example, if... Well... If a major commercial distributor contacts us to talk about the press release, or an editor of a journal asks for a comment about a specific topic, or it can definitely sound a little... I would like to discuss that with people, but not yet. It's a publicity. So it could be really cool that we could get somehow this publicity-private list where we can add nearly everyone to discuss that, and add non-medies to that list. Perhaps over... What are the hurdles to having such a list? I mean, if it would be a really good list to have, then there's members... If I remember correctly, in the fact report I actually created last year about the publicity list. We asked for the publicity-private list too, and the listmasters said something that they are not sure how to implement the list we asked for, where every DD can subscribe and we can add some non-medies. I would rest. Check out button number three, six, eight, nine, zero, eight... I guess that's not welcome to just move to eight years. It's on the... Go back to the Christmas movie world. What is it that you want to achieve if it really reminds you of... Let me see if I can... You've got people from outside of Delhi who are communicating with you. We want to know some information or I'll ask a question. For example, just recently, we were asked from an editor of some journal in the United States about the comments we had a Microsoft thing about patents and so the agreement Microsoft had recently made with other distributions. The question was, what's the position for giving about that? I'll tell you now, some of the people who really know you from when you get used to our answers have been telling you enough about the maintenance so if you stick to only maintenance you're going to get millions of problems from those people. They still have to fill hands for example to learn the maintenance. Do you have a reason for maintenance? It's for the flamethrower. It should be an ISEE channel. It should be an ISEE channel. Obviously, in the final, if you would have asked that stuff on project or private, it would most likely have been a major flamethrower and I wouldn't have had an answer to send to the editor within the time frame I got. I think we got some mail on Sunday evening or during Monday and they asked for an answer till Wednesday. We can't handle a flamethrower at such a high frequency. So it doesn't work with the private or the project list. And it's something I can't discuss on it. I wouldn't like to discuss on it. I mean, that's also something that's appropriate for a flamethrower. It's a project statement and selecting some random people who are interested in flamethrows for such a thing like the Microsoft Engine thing as long. Yeah, that was my main example. It's very tough. There's much better examples. Can we get a speaker for something? It would have been better. What? Come on, Philip reads Debbie in UK, right? I mean, there's a Debbie in UK band. Philip reads it. Phil Nance. I think you're post-secure. Do you feel like answers to that? On demand. People come along and look at stuff and ask them, do they really need to do it or do they want to do it or do they want to do it? Is there also a Debbie in UK? I thought it was beautiful. But I mean, okay, if some people just want to trust it in the media, I'm not sure we should change all of Debbie. I mean, there's many of us in the media. I agree that everybody should be fronting the private, but if they're interested in publicity I mean, they still read email. I like they move over to IRC and web form to do it. Because I know we never had a framework on TV publicity. Yeah, exactly. It would be good publicity. Yes. Yeah. So, what about publicity? Another improvement here is our greater times TV and that. Another thing which I think works very well. What is the purpose of TV? To publish news that are not really worse to be sent to the TV news mailing list. Sorry. Exactly. So those are sort of the kind of centralized news feeds where up-to-date information is posted to Zygote RSS. Please. Yeah, it has. It has even different categories which you can subscribe to if you are just in the news or just in the event stuff or whatever. We have evens and SS feeds which are automatically aggregated into Zygote. There's one project which describes the deviant thinker trips one of them in space or something that he or something like that. So if we could just remove which are nice to know if he knows that it exists. It's not like that. Ah. Our SS feed for that is if you've got something that needs personal room you've got a lot of ideas. You've got an RSS feed and make it an HTVDS. Can you get an RSS code that has HTVDS that requires medication? There isn't much of a need for it. There isn't much of a need for it. So basically it will be people who want it access it or people who people who don't really be able to be given to access the RSS feed and get access to it. There seem to be some assumptions there. When the press calls I seem to be availing this quite amazing. When the press calls you cannot send it to an RSS feed and wait for people to read it and reply or send it to an email and hope for someone to fix it to check it, discover it, reply. You have to act there and then. You have to go for hard interrupts. You have to go to phone calls. You have to make sure that someone actually pays attention and addresses the request. There is no way you can just put it on an RSS feed even if you have password access to it and limited access to the RSS feed. That doesn't help because people do not act on soft interrupts like that. You have to have hard interrupts. You have to have someone actually pick up the phone and say, yes I want to fix that now. So that's when the press calls. They don't have time to wait. It's difficult to have a hard interrupt on a group discussion though. Hard interrupts are easier in organisations when there is a pyramid and there is an interrupt that will be able to turn around and give you a fast answer. You have to have the opportunity to talk to Debian or someone that replies immediately and if Debian doesn't, Debian doesn't get any comments and the others do. Journalists are not interested in playing Debian game and waiting for someone to reply. There is also instant reply. There are several severities. It's the like, the more important one is to phone but have someone, there is a conference in August that everybody wants to talk to and if that's February then you can easily come and see anything. That's a different thing. There is a period of time that maybe you should be kind of responsible. Yeah, the rich units of this group have a press contact which gives them phone calls and journalists call him. I'm only available on email. I never get on email because they call him and if he answers, that's fine. If not, they just move up. I think that could be because of the region that these groups are more localized than Debian. My phone number is well, more or less, but I've never been called but even for German words. They always... You were the one to call. I'm pretty sure that we're trying to call Sam. It's all up to him. I can't call him because he's here. But it's not my priority. What is your priority? Journalists only use cell phones. They barely use landlines. If they can't just grab you there and then they just get someone else to give a comment on the topic they're writing on. That's so annoying. You have to accept the journalist by doing it. You communicate at the level of that. They don't care if you need email or a week to be brought. They just ignore you. It's kind of annoying. The purpose of this is to put communication principally and the tail end of this discussion is to see how to improve communication with journalists specifically. So one of the ways to do that is to recognise that that's the way that journalists work and then to see how they can be accommodated rather than to be known as. Bill suggested a sister doing this as a support. A phone call for a common support. And so we have some sort of an asterisk server or something like that which directs through to anybody's phone. So anyone who will pick it up it doesn't matter who it is as long as somebody picks it up. It could be on somebody on the other side of the phone it could be somebody on the Skype gateway or whatever or jam on anything. As long as there is 8 of them where people can be good where people, journalists whoever can find and reach a deviant person. What do you think? That would be great. That would be great. That would be great. Mark and Phil talk to Mark. That would be great. That's what we would really like to have. So that would be great. I think I think Daniel Daniel some others are already working on some kind of voice of IP system for deviant. I'm not sure about their progress and how far they are. I understand it's not a very high priority either. It was once they announced more publicly than needed and it was hushed away very soon. I'm collecting addresses for journalists putting them on our press release mailing list and we send out by 3 or 4 a month with an announcement of some time and this normally always make it to the papers for one paper or another. Every time I meet a journalist I ask if they want to be put on our press release mailing list and normally they say yes. And we have probably 40 paper generate email addresses for papers and the magazines and stuff like that and probably the same amount of direct address to journalists. I think Daniel should do the same when Samuel is a journalist you should get his email address and you shouldn't be afraid to send an email because they are very good at filtering out crap. So he needs to get to know if that's what we have to do. So first we could just fix an A-list project where we keep John Starr and contact information from all the other stuff. Yeah maybe we'll just put them on use and use them before I can do it. I don't think you should just agree on doing it because I think right now the policy was to just mail Debian emails and everybody feeling self stressed. Martin Mission might have started to he was getting anointed and he just started to do his own press releases basically. He did the same thing for his GCC stuff he did and he said he just mail strange people and well it's not in the press, in the paper press but it's on all the major news sites because you got to deny that there's no way of doing something like this again and just agreeing that this might be a good thing. I don't know how Joe is standing on that. There's a way that it matters but if you think there's a better deal I don't think that people are against it. I would like to see more stuff sent to Debian news and to announce especially since the weekly news are more or less the weekly news is not fit for journalists. There was one message per feature and a quote from someone and preferably a picture of some kind and I ran in a yard and I can't base it today. I mean we need that. They are amazing. I just want to pick up communication. Actually it's not such a matter. I was trying to show that it's important from time to time that there's some kind of signal that the media is still alive while the weekly news wasn't of at least interested people not that it's called a heartbeat but now the weekly news is just sent out every two months like that but that happens so we don't need to wonder so people always think Debian is dead. But is that because no one's bothering to communicate specific events of interest or just because there is such long distribution milestones that there isn't actually any interesting news to get out to see by the way other than seeing that by the way we're still alive which channels typically I think the problem is not that we don't have anything interesting the problem is that we don't run it out. For example where it's a where is there a place to record it that's an interesting thing in a sense like hoping with the internet community that they get the best emailing for suppressant TV and hot aliens. I don't believe that well sorry dude but I mean that's what Debian works you can always say like if you prefer you can ping me on ISC but if you want you can put up a list and we do a redirect on the main list that's hard to do actually ISC might be a good idea having a channel is not a bad idea but I think in particular for just your coordination you guys mentioned that we actually applied to Quest quite quickly to get taken into account so I understand that human joy could not always reply in the day already but so then maybe you can set up helpers nearby for what's to happen just ask on the ISC could someone reply to this guy a problem with IRC is that it gets lost very easily. I think maybe your idea is a good one but maybe IRC should be just a side effect for example if requests for information were entered into a request tracker and the request tracker sent it to IRC and sent also a mail to a list that could be this can lead to a bit of lower maintenance for example I don't have to diamond I have not helped in that area mainly because I cannot foresee how my time will be scheduled soon but several people can if somebody requests information to press at the BIANSE and it is recorded that's something pending attention then somebody replies to that pending and just pushes it to the right place soon I reckon you just send out notifications that it will automatically email people it's got that idea IRC is fantastic IRC, SMS it will automatically IRC out people constantly every two hours if it's high priority please pay attention to this item please pay attention to this item because alright I'll do it actually it could be also possible to have it may be difficult to set up telephone system but we could have a mailbox a phone box how much information and they are to contact us as long as it is consistent messages to messages and if we send out five messages a month they will have a few days since they last saw a message from us and at the bottom of the message there is contact information use email, phone IRC, whatever as long as they stay the same they will remember how to contact us if we have a different phone it should be possible to send an answer on the machine we just say we don't have phone lines we are who we are but we have a answering machine just give a message and as soon as this one has a message and email goes to the request tracker that won't work, they will just move on if no one answered that phone they would just pick someone else to talk to it's just not as good as having some life but it's still on the telephone so it might be easier for them it would work technically and then just call another one get the call they need and then write the article we don't need to make complicated stuff because the basic problem is that many people are drafting stuff to send out because if you can send out so even when people can draft stuff there is no problem to send stuff out exactly what I often can't do is to draft things myself because a good example DEF CON I told DEF CON people several times hey guys please draft something and I will send it out I didn't caught anything and I didn't have the time to read all the stuff myself what's planned what's most interesting what could one call a special keynote or something something that would be really worth to be sent out I wouldn't have to send out hey by the way there is going a DEF CON conference it's in Scotland from that to the date but I didn't have the time to find out the headline and I didn't caught something I think DEF CON is a very good example of how this could be made work better because the press team at DEF CON also didn't work because people didn't coordinate with each other somebody tried to centralize and I don't know it didn't work but the thing is if people with the skills and the time could subscribe to whatever is needed in say writing so you can submit it maybe that would work and that would be also a very good way of getting new people involved people without coding skills I mean we have debated long time how to include non coders that can be a very good way and they can just ask a coder for four lines and write on half an article to have somebody write it I mean we are some I think we must have a lot of opportunities for example doing where we entered Windows X which download the user image and start to install it was published and suddenly appeared on SlashGolf and the server went building down because people wasn't much interested missed opportunity because we could have send it out more coordinated and probably have set up yeah but so it was called Microsoft or something what was the engine as it was replace Microsoft replace Microsoft so I don't think it would be appropriate to endorse that in any case you create new units you could have put it up on goodbye madrasus.libium.net okay but we just missed it so there are plenty of stories which are known to the community and somehow we just have to get the community to organize itself to be able to recognize that these stories are arriving format them and put them out yes it's the only people who are not invited doing that are people who are non native English which tend to draft panels which are not ready to be published right now so if there are plenty of drafts which are enough plenty being the amount that we need as opposed to an insufficiency but some of them are in non native speaker English then presumably all we need is some final Polish translators yeah because if there are drafts which are being put into English by non native speakers and all we need is to be finalized into fluent English that can be a true story that's not the problem we have localization for English for example which was crafted with the release managers and I put the publicity to get more ideas and all that stuff and send that to the L10 and English list to de-germanize it if you like to say so which basically was removed from a lot of comments but that's not the problem how long does it take to get it done? I I'm kind of do it always I think this is major mistakes for removed within two or three hours but I think that was a special example because people were already aware that there might be some stuff to be done we have some problems some kind of full stop but the English people said ok now it's ready there was a continuous flow of improvements it's perfectly fine that we are issuing press release about each release because we know when we're going to release that and we know when we're going to issue the press release but if someone calls or sends an email trying to get it removed or whatever we don't have that time that's something but we still have some time it would be possible to line up a final version polisher at the time that the non need to make this draft was being begun so that by the time that draft was finished we had to translate it I think it's two or three hours at the time it's fine to work on this doesn't include the time that the non need to speak on needs to write down almost immediately or else we're talking about a date that's too much what is press release drafts what kind of process is used to come up with that final press release was it kind of well what you saw is my slides excellent that's a problem that's a problem imagine I was just I wanted to take notes but he's already doing it what's a take whatever someone's taking notes it may be difficult to get on the meaningless basically Joey or myself got appointed to issue a draft release is that directly or because we noticed this by ourselves we asked second floor there's an alias for them we use press activity or for them now we're using we have now moved on to using a leaky a leaky but there we have initial IDs for press releases and then someone to extend it to be more press release and we have people check it with spelling and the text for consistency and the press contacts and so on and on the week page is ready to send out the reformat that we made and she did and that has actually how other girls yeah well no one check no I mean yeah there's like somebody about in theory and we don't want one people I really think we should have a couple of workbooks but everything on the wiki might not be appropriate for some press releases most press releases should not be like that we don't have an ID we have some data we have some data on how many of these press releases were really coordinated and so I please don't talk about this until the 20th and then we'll send it all out thank you how many press releases are we actually putting out how many of them really press releases are putting out those two press releases which was specifically about something which needs a workflow where people check the English and so far not exactly we've got two two different things which we're kind of talking about together on these press releases where we know in advance what story it is we wish to release the best responses to journalism to journalists which is how many requests from journalists like first we really have to answer I would guess about one or two one or two a week it's the wrong one guess I see that's my first press release but some of them are fairly easy for example we get asked if it's okay if they use our logo or something like that I do, you always ask them this time so do you we try to sadly we sometimes miss to answer them so press release or I guess well known to cameras and so it's pretty hard to filter that and it's especially hard to filter it in a proper way so we don't miss I specifically need to take a look at my spam for at least once a day to be sure that I didn't filter out an invitation to a Korean conference or something like that it's very hard security has the same kind of problem we tend to work around that most of the time we don't need it so if a message gets eaten by my spam filter somebody else might have seen it anyway but it's the same too that's probably bad but by the way does anyone new offer to detect the language used in a mail it's another small problem we have that we get some kind of mail and I'm not sure in which language it is and so I don't know who I should show it to translate it for so that's just that's probably this is dealt with by a human who can recognize a little bit of and I am sure I have seen something similar to what you say based on statistics on length of word and characters used and I mean it's not very hard to if there is such a tool please tell me but I guess by far most of your requests are well, most in English besides that mostly European languages how much do you get in Asian languages do you spell to speak more I remember at least four emails in some kind of Asian language which I pulled out of my spam filter for example you can because I clicked on the link and didn't find porn but the event page but you can for example check if a foreign language if a Korean Chinese male contains the word Debian it cannot be marked as spam it's a bit too much that's what I do in the meantime well you can answer in English saying sorry I don't know what you meant I've already got some text plots I've already have some text plots in different kind of language telling to context a specific user list do you think that there's more people needed on the press using more people on it but anyway I don't think it's the right solution to randomly send an inquiry for information to a user group no I do, I use those only if I'm sure that it's just some kind of user risk which may not often a lot of time a lot of stupid user requests just get us a press so we enter that as well but that's not an English sorry but I interrupted him yes I would like to see more people that's a press alias really good if there is one name for me yeah and preferably that form different continents too someone from probably both of us are German or European at the exact same time soon it would be better if we had someone in the States actually I haven't talked but I don't know how we're thinking about it but Joey, you see on the channel he should be able to block work for publicity and that so yeah so he's not against that I'm not against any more people I mean what what about this we had the discussion about one of the initial things was just redirecting press to the main person what do you think would be better to really have some kind of request tracker but every kind of mail is like some people forever gendered and then put it in the right queue I'm not sure I didn't use request trackers of others or I'm not sure anyone in this room use request trackers of others you didn't forward a lot of things to name this so much but how many of say you're coming from press forward to publicity at all just like publicity is just free kind of stuff I mean for out there I can't forward much of the stuff because if we get sent stuff to press a demon word it's it's normally considered to be but sorry sorry thank you now I'm going to make you useful thank you got the privacy on the scene what request trackers there was several but yeah so you want to set up a new contract you can use it if we have I personally do not want to I am suggesting to hear that you consider user I'm not sure I will take a look at it it's a difficult question I mean it's useful if you get useful stuff in but as you know we can't protect the request tracker like we did for the BSA tracker you can't work spam protect it well if we also if you suggest not letting anybody else use it just use it and so you do but the only person to be able to do it anytime spent creating entries in this tracker I think it's not that difficult we're speaking of two in two alias important that needs to be in time so I think it's overdone really well that's it the current tracker that we have for BSA for query requires that you put something in the subject whenever you made the contact that's actually not totally blue it makes sense to set up you set up LTE and others yeah I know but it creates a new ticket only closed tickets for nothing basically I think without a tight detail don't need to discuss now just allow one final remark you can easily suggest that we use an internal address we don't publish but just bounce it but anyways I think it's a detail we don't need to discuss here so just to recap moment we see measures we want to be putting more focus to the press but the problem is although we have stories and events and milestones that could be written about at about the right frequency for not being overkill we're not getting those written up in a way that can be added to the press is that a good submission of that last discussion I think also we have the problem that most dead-end developers have no idea whatsoever what's happening there so we need to publicize whichever group it is that's taking ownership of that process assuming that we do things like take all share of it by noses publishing is publishing it is not enough we have to make sure our attempt to develop our noses above it can I just provide something I sort of threw out in the middle of the discussion we need among us other things it's not just to be talking about the dead-end community contacting and being contacted by journalists to the wider world but we can a journalism function within the community to publish information to the community we need community journalists basically to publish I don't think it's dead-end maybe one day it's gonna be fixed of course we're not able to fix this I might make more people aware but there's information to people very often they recognize it and of course it would be helpful People, I have to, I mean, this is in the middle of the discussion, but I have to cut this. Another buff is about to start in this room. Sorry? Yes, so please shut up. It was built last time. Well, right now another buff is about to start. There's no buff taking place in the upper buff. The upper buff was supposed to have a long buff for more than two hours.