 The former governor of the Central Bank of Nigeria, Mohamed Ussouna Sanusi, has said Nigeria has never been this divided since the Civil War of 1967 to 1970. He said a country because of the elections was now dangerously divided along ethnic and religious lines, adding that it had put the integrity of public institutions in question. Sanusi, in his address, stated that the country now had a challenge of nation-building, adding that the economy was now in the daldrums. According to him, beyond defining the kind of leaders the country needs, it also needs to look critically at the process through which the leaders emerge. We're now being joined to discuss this tonight by Abiodun Shomi, a political analyst. Thank you so much Sarah for joining us on the program. Thank you for having me. I remember in those days when we were growing up, when I was growing up, I don't know about other people. We had a march past song and we were singing about a particular person who wanted to divide Nigeria, but go on. The man at the hem of affairs at that time said Nigeria must be won. So we are now for general go on. That's how it was. Nigeria must be won. It was the concern of everybody. There's always been that Nigeria does not disintegrate along any lines, whether ethnic, whether religious, whether whatever kinds of lines. But right now according to Sanusi, the division in Nigeria has become so worrisome that we can compare it to 1967 to 70 when we had the Civil War or even worse than that. What is your comment on this? Yes, division in itself is not really a problem. It's the nature of the division that we have in society. In the first instance, there is no way you can avoid division. Whether you look at it politically, you have to be divided. That's the nature of democracy. Then you have classes in society, social stratification along class lines. You have the working class, you have the rich class, you have the middle class. They are part of the divisions existing in any society. But two of the most dangerous forms of divisions which could threaten the existence of any nation, more than the rest, is that they are religion and ethnicity. They are very, very potent weapons which could lead a country into being divided, badly divided or the collapse of a country. Yes, it is true class stratification could also lead to revolution which may also threaten either the country or threaten the establishment of that very country. But it is not quite as potent as the ethnic and religious divide in any country. In the last election, we have seen our country badly polarized along religion and ethnic sentiments which pertain to some danger for our country. We are at a very serious crisis at a point in time when we really now need to address the issue of Nigeria being a divided nation. And we need to make it a nation, a diverse nation, but united as a country, not necessarily to divide along ethnic lines. What Sanusii remarked on actually is about the nature and the level of ethnic politicking that characterize the last election. And that can easily be evident from what happened in different parts of the country. When you look at the almost unbelievable one-way voting in the South East where 97%, 98%, 92% are returned in favor of one candidate and one political party. To the exclusion of others, that none had even 5%. Hello, can you hear me, Mr. Shoumi? You know, that is ethnic nationality. Okay. Yeah, can you hear me? Yeah, go ahead now. Hello. Yes, we can hear you. The nationality could think along that line. That is very worrisome. That is dangerous. The second aspect of it is the what happened also in particularly in Lagos. We also saw, you know, ethnic politics, you know, playing itself out out of anxiety about some other nationality coming to take over Lagos. Of course, that is not helped by the nature of the propaganda that came out, you know, from that nationality. That actually foiled that ethnic sentiment in Southwest. Whether justified or not, the fact of the matter is a very dangerous form of a politicking in our country. To the extent that there are people from certain parts of the country, particularly Southeast, who are very, very apprehensive, you know, of their continuous existence in Lagos. Whether real or imagined is not the issue, it's about perception. Even though there are other ethnic nationalities living in Lagos, but they are not apprehending the same level of fear. So that is, I think, what drove that on the path of Samozi. But when you look at religion also, the way religion has been employed, it is such very shameful that we could descend to that level. I mean, we saw people moving, presidential candidates, moving from one church to another church. Almost all churches are appealing to sentiments, even though claiming it was not campaigning on religious ground. But of course, that is not true. The perception is clear. It's not about reality. It's also about perception and the body language. And we had all what the pastors and bishops, you know, said, drumming up support for one candidate against another. So that has also not helped. We also have the another angle to it. We saw the religious, the traditional religionist, or how do I call it? Traditional religious worshipers, you know, also, you know, declaring their Oro festival around the period leading to the election or leading to voting, including on the day of voting. That, of course, affected, turned out to some extent, which nobody can dispute in my view. Of course, that has also not helped, because even though they didn't attach that to politics, but it's clear that the intention is to influence the voting pattern of people one, and it also evoke a kind of religious sentiments in the Southwest, particularly in Lagos. So these are the issues which are really very troubling about the nature of the division which we have currently. There's nothing wrong with having a political division or a social division. We've always been having that, but we've learned how to manage those ones. But the ones that can lead to mayhem is either the religious or the ethnic ones. You only need to look at Rwanda, and then we will understand how Rwanda got to where they are today. And also, we have the same ethnic issue in Somalia. Somalia, till today, has not been able to rebuild the country. It's still bloodshed today, bloodshed tomorrow, because the nature of the problem in Somalia is along ethnic clans, lines, and that's the problem. So it is, San Jose is right like many people to be concerned about the nature and the character and the type of division which we have in our country today. Because if we look at the political history from 1999, for instance, the South East has always been almost like giving block votes to particular parties. When PDP was holding Sway, it was almost like all their votes went to PDP, for instance. And then Lagos State, on its own, I'm not too sure it's more like an ethnic thing. Well, maybe it is the European nationality against the world. Otherwise, if you're talking about people who really are from Lagos State fighting for Lagos State, a lot of people will argue against that. Because, for instance, the president-elect has held Sway in Lagos for a long time, and it is said that he's from Oshoon State. We also know another political actor in Lagos State, in the person of James Faleke, who has been contesting governorship elections in Kogi State. We also have Eric Beshola, who has been a governor in Oshoon State and has a very great say in Lagos politics. Nobody is saying those people are strangers, except they want to say it is Lagos is Yoruba. It doesn't matter whether you're from Lagos or from anywhere else. But some people perceive this, what is happening in Lagos, as it is a particular set of people who belong to a sect, a political sect in Lagos, against the rest of them. Because Yorubas are also saying a lot of things against what happened in Lagos now. So my concern is what really fueled what happened here. Because these things that happened here have been happening low-key, but now it was so wide. What gave room or what gave rise to this kind of the magnitude of what happened in this political circle that we just finished, and we're hoping that May 29 it will be very complete. So what was the fuel that brought about this division that we are concerned about now? Yes, Lagos is a cosmopolitan city. So in the largest sense you are quite right with the way you've viewed it, that people have been living together for long, and they've been voting for a particular party or a particular political tendency in Lagos, which is correct. Lagos has always been standing by Ashua Jutinumbu's party. There's no doubt about that, and a lot of it is due to the fact that people could see that comparatively speaking, Lagos has been doing well more than any other states in the country to the extent that it's now the fifth-largest economy in the world. So the support for that political tendency led by Ashua Jutinumbu is actually predicated on the performance of Lagos states in comparison with the rest of the states in the country. So that put in context, we can then understand why people across all ethnic lines, majority of them prefer to stand by that political tendency led by Jutinumbu. Now, in relation to this last election, what created the problem is also the nature of the people in southwest in comparison with the nature of the people, particularly from the southeast part of Nigeria. When it was made clear that people in the south who produced the next governor, by all the center governors, it was not zoned to any part of the south. It was not zoned to the south. So given that situation, all people from the south, some part of Nigeria are entitled, all ethnic nationalities are entitled to contest for it. We saw Wiki trying from south-south through the PDP. He didn't make it. And we saw Jutinumbu tried through the APC. He made it. We saw OB from southeast tried through Labour Party and he made it also. They all got the ticket. But what was in relationship is the failure to recognize or respect the relationship in the southwest. And what do I mean by that, baby? If you allow me to explain a little bit. In the southwest, you can have in the family the father being a Muslim and you have the mother Christian. And the son can choose to be a traditionalist. When it's festival period, the whole celebrate all the festivals together. It is not a problem at all in the southwest at all. Being a Muslim-Muslim candidate or a Christian-Christian candidate is not something spring. And I can give you examples of that. When Awolowo was contested in 1979, he had Philip Umiadi from southeast as his vice presidential candidate. Both of them were Christians. He didn't create any problem at all in the southwest. When the former governor of Oshun State contested, he contested with Terelu Obada. Both of them were Christians in Oshun State, like the Muslim. And they voted for them. Even the current governor of Oshun State, voted, is a Christian with a Christian deputy. And they still voted for them in this same election cycle in Oshun State. As I'm speaking to you today, in all of the southern part of Nigeria, there is no state where there is a Muslim governor. In all of the entire south. So it then becomes a problem for people in the southwest to understand when the campaign against Tinumbu was led by the church. That you can't have a Muslim-Muslim ticket. When in reality, this issue of same religion is not a problem in southwest. We've had it before. We've had it again with Tinumbu and Shetima. So it has never been a problem. But it is a problem for people in the southern, particularly in the southeast. Because they made a lot of noise around it and campaigned heavily using the church. And we saw the Christian transition in Nigeria. We saw PFA, all coming out, heavily criticizing it. And that did not go down very well with people, with many people in the southwest. And because of that, that is the basis for the new tension. And it's exactly why the traditionalists in southwest actually had to intervene. Yes, show me. Just your final words, please. Okay. So basically what we need to do is to learn to have to understand each other. We need to jettison religion and jettison the issue of ethnicity. We are all Nigerians. We are all people created by God. And it's just an accident of geography that I'm born in Lagos or born in Kano or Kadeno or Enugong. So I think we need to learn from what has happened. And we all have to show respect for each other's feelings. Okay, I do hope that that healing process that everybody is asking for now will really begin and lead us to where we want to be. Lagos used to be the dream of Nigeria. What Nigeria could be? You could come from anywhere and be anything so long as you are in Nigeria and here in Lagos. And everybody else was hoping that it's going to happen like that in every other state. And a lot of people were agitating for state of origin to be removed from all the forms that we feel and all that so that Nigerians become just Nigerians and without saying wherever you're coming from will affect you in any way. But all that, a lot of people fear has been eroded. We do hope that this consciousness which it has given us to see how if we divide ourselves along ethnicity and religion we're going to be will teach us a lesson enough to make sure that we come back together to unite and build a strong Nigeria. I'd like to thank you, Mr. Abiodun, show me for coming on the program and talking with us. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Okay, we'll be talking with Mr. Abiodun, show me a political analyst on the show. Stakeholders are concerned about the unity of Nigeria. We do hope that that unity that we so much desire will put our hands together to make it come about. On behalf of the entire team of Plus Politics, my name is Nyam Gul Agadji. Thanks for being there.