 What kind of secret idea has to be so innovative and keeping up to bring in new things all the time? Well, I suppose the answer is maybe a little obvious, but when you have an organisation where you've worked really hard to recruit the most innovative people you can find, and there's something special about the people at IDEO, is that they are innovative and they're collaborative, right, so they want to work together. When you've worked really hard to recruit those people, you'd be really stupid if you didn't give them some space and time to innovate, not just only on behalf of our clients, but on behalf of IDEO too. And so we have a lot of, I don't know, maybe you call it design activism going on in IDEO everywhere, right? So there are new ideas bubbling up all of the time, and then we have some very lightweight structures for investing in those ideas in order to grow them when they're exciting. So for instance, we recently launched our online university IDEOU, and that came from a small team inside IDEO that were passionate about teaching, and they ran a little design charrette and they came up with this thought and then they built a really quick prototype in a day of what the first course was going to look like, and that was convincing enough to say, you know, let's take a little bit of money and try and make that first course. And now we have 15 courses and we're teaching 15,000 students a year. So these ideas evolve, we trust people in the organization to have the best new ideas, and then we try and support them where we can in order to let them grow. It's not always easy to spot them and it's not always easy to give people the time, but one thing I can be totally confident about is that there's always lots of new ideas bubbling up inside IDEOU. And one thing you said to me that raised my attention, you said about recruiting the right people, because this is a very specific behavior. But many organizations, they are much more traditional. They're big and they have a less flexible structure. What kind of advice would you give to this very large organization that are facing a massive disruption absolutely everywhere to become more? Totally. I mean, if you believe that you have to have more and better ideas and you have to do more with those ideas, if you don't believe it then you don't change. You just stay focused on efficiency. But if you do believe that, then however you want to describe it, you need more people with more entrepreneurialism or with what we would call creative confidence, the ability to have new ideas and then the confidence to act on them in your organization. So if you've got to try and unlock whatever of that is already there and recruit more people with that in mind. I mean, we recruit mostly based on values rather than skills. I mean, obviously you're looking for people with certain skills, but we're really careful to look for people... One of our most important values at IDEOU is this idea of making others successful because we believe in collaborative innovation, not just the individual genius. And that's been incredibly helpful to us because we're very good at spotting people who want to work with other people to do creative things. And I think that's important for all organizations. I think it's one of the under... or misunderstood important characteristics of successful organizations is that they have people in them who want to help other people. That includes customers, obviously, but it also includes other people in your own organization. And I think recruiting for that bias is a tremendously important thing I think for all organizations to do. Yeah, and this is a perfect point to tell you. We did recently a research and one of the key findings are related to that, but not in an extremely positive way. There is a massive problem on large organizations, large governments about silos. Yeah, it's exactly the lack. And this drives me to the second point. It's a people act on their self-interest. And so there is this challenge. You need to change to survive, but at the same time, you want to keep your own kingdom and it's basically the opposite. But how organizations can improve that? Imagine that they already have the team and the team has its mindset that is people don't change as fast as... No, but I do think we can do a better job of leading not just to develop individuals, but to develop communities. The history of humanity has been about how we've designed bigger and bigger and more complex communities. That's really the thing that's evolved most. And that's true in businesses too. If we only stay focused on the individual, then we'll only get the productivity of the individual and we'll get all of these silos and we'll get this self-interest that dominates. But if we are good at building communities, small communities around projects, large communities around businesses, whatever they might be, then I think we have the opportunity to create real leverage and real impact at scale. So we have to remember that our job as leaders isn't just to promote and encourage individuals, it's to promote and encourage communities. So most of the success of IDEA, you think it's this innovative approach on helping each other and it's like a self-regulated environment. It is and the amount of trust. We have relatively few rules, there's a high degree of trust and a willingness to forgive somebody if they've done something that actually may be not in your interest, but you could see it's in the broader interest. And that's a very hard thing to keep encouraging. And as the organization gets bigger, it gets harder and harder to do and we're relatively small. So I'm not sure that it wouldn't be necessarily very easy for us to take everything we do and apply it to a 100,000 person organization. But what would be your advice? If you have maybe one or two pieces of advice, for those who are listening to this for the C-level executives that are facing challenges on transforming themselves, so what would be your experience and your advice? I'd go back and say you need to encourage two things. You need to encourage creativity and entrepreneurship and you need to encourage collaboration. And however you choose to measure that and whatever objectives you set for it, you need to encourage both those things. Just one will create lots of energy but also lots of divisiveness. If you just encourage collaboration to get nothing new and interesting, that's just bureaucracy or teamwork. And so it's tremendously important that as leaders we encourage both of these things. Thank you very much. It was wonderful talking to you and thank you for taking the time to talk to us. It's a pleasure. Thank you very much.