 Welcome back. It's still the breakfast on Plus TV Africa. World Cancer Day is an international day marked on the 4th of February every year to raise awareness of cancer and to encourage its prevention, detection and treatment. The day also tries to inspire a prompt action and life-saving treatment and care for all individuals suffering from the disease. This year's World Cancer Day has the theme, close the care gap. Now, what does this mean and what message are the advocates trying to pass? So tell us about this and more. We joined on breakfast this morning by, in the studio, Dr. Adebayo Joseph. She is a clinical radiation oncologist and live from the UK via Zoom, Denise Ejo, who is the chief executive officer of Commode Cancer Foundation. Ladies, nice to have you on the program this morning. Thank you for having me. All right. Okay. Let's start with Dr. Adebayo who is right here in the studio. We want to keep it basic for those who are watching and do not know much about cancer. So let's start from very fundamental, very basic. What is cancer? Well, cancer simply means abnormal growth. So the cells in the human body are constantly replicating and replenishing themselves. But there are control mechanisms in place to keep that process, keep it in check. What happens is when those control mechanisms are turned off, the cells then continue to divide abnormally. And that's when you have what you call a chimo. But cancer comes in specifically when you have a malignant chimo. So you can have a benign chimo. That's a chimo that's not cancerous. It can be dangerous if it's in a certain place like in the brain. But generally, benign chimos are benign. Benign means something that's not dangerous. A malignant chimo is cancer. Okay. It's a different type of chimo that can spread and invade other organs and can lead to death if it's not treated. That's a lot. You know, it really is even encouraging because, I mean, the, the, what we hear about cancer these days and the, the, the havoc it's raking, you know, on people, it's, it sounds a bit less, the way you put it sounds less fearful, frightful. I know maybe you're just trying to make, but, but it's, it's rampant these days in Africa and in Nigeria. Some years ago, we would have thought, oh, this is something you hear about in the West, America, the UK, Europe. You know, we hear about cancer. We hear, but today in Nigeria, we have a lot of cancer cases. What's going on? So there are a couple of things I want to address in, in the statements you just made. The first thing I'm going to say is that cancer is, is, is frightening. It is frightening. We try not to put paint too much of a green picture, but if you're not, I always, there's something I've always said for a long time that if you're not afraid is because you're not paying attention. It is scary. It's scary in multiple levels, but particularly here because we don't necessarily have access to care. Enter the close, the care gap theme of this year. It's also scary here because many people are paying completely out of pocket for treatment and that can be catastrophic to any family. So it is frightening, but here is the other thing though. There are millions of cancer survivors in the world today. So cancer is survivable. As frightening as it is, it can be treated and it can be survived in many cases. And that's the message that I think is important to put out there. The other thing is when you say that it is rampant in Nigeria and Africa now, what is happening is awareness. I'm not certain that the numbers have changed. I'm not certain that incidents in that the rate at which people are having cancer has truly increased. What I am certain of is that people are now more aware. People are getting diagnosed more frequently. We are recording the data more accurately and people are getting treated now. Okay. All right. I'd like to bring in Denise Ajo at this point because you talked about the fact that you have people surviving cancer. We told that Denise Ajo is a cancer survivor. Denise, am I correct? And please share your story with us. Thank you. Yes, you are correct. Everybody keeps saying survivor. I'm going to start with that point because I really question what a survivor is. Those of us that live with cancer. So I'm deemed as someone who lives with cancer. That means that I was diagnosed with breast cancer, metastasizing in the brain. I've had nine tumors removed from my brain. I'm supposed to have breast cancer. I live on chemo every three weeks so far for the last five plus years. In fact, I had chemo yesterday. So I'm even looking very good. I'm very happy with myself. The journey is not a very easy one. So to put it very simply, whatever we say, I have had to go through understanding the value of time, family, the fact that we don't know whether we will cross the line. And for every marker you cross, you actually ask yourself, oh, I've done well. I've gone past that because I had to go through chemo. I had gamonide surgery. I'm expected to have something else in the next few weeks. I don't know what it is yet because we're having a test next week. But living with cancer is living with cancer. And understanding, the first thing I'd like people to understand is, please stop stigmatizing us and stop making out as if it's not a big deal. And don't make us become diseased. We don't necessarily need the sympathy. We need the love and the support to walk through it, not to be told, go left, go right. Everybody tells you what to do. But everybody's not sitting in the chair. And the truth, they're sitting in the chair is very different from any oncologist's point of view. It's very different from all the I think I'm not a medic. So I'm an education person. Right? Okay. So let me use my layman English. But I think the way we go for the way it is understood is very different from the reality of what we go through. And we have to start questioning a lot because you're told so many things, your diet. I was told once that, what did I do? Who did I sin? Why did that? What sin did I? I mean, I mean, come on. And when you are listening to that, that's ignorance. Because one in two, and I'm writing that, we'll get cancer. So if we save 100,000 people, two people will. So why, I'm feeling fine, 500,000 will. So why are we going? What must I just consider it? But yes. So I hope I've tried to break it down as simply as I can. It's, I think I need to look for, this is not me patronizing here, but I think I would need to look for a word greater than survivor. Because for what you have gone through, and you know, you're here smiling, talking to me on TV, I would like to know how you do it. Nine tumors removed in the brain, going for chemo every three weeks or the past three years. That's, that's, that's more than heroism. And I'm already inspired. The doctor in the studio was nodding your head when you were speaking. You want to say some things about what she said? Oh, I mean, yes. So I think the thing that I, that I heard the most is, is stigmatization, you know. And it's so, it's so deep that I remember that when I even wanted to become an oncologist, people would ask me, why would you choose oncology as a specialty? And there was a point at which I ran an entire social media campaign saying, not all my patients die. Because that was the thing that people were saying to me, you know, that all your patients are going to die. Why do you want to do oncology? And, you know, for me, it was one of the best decisions I've made. I've met people who are, I've met all kinds of people in this journey, right? And like, like she just said, it is a journey. It's one of the things I always said at the very beginning. It's a journey. And the truth is, nobody who isn't going through it can really understand what, what it is that each individual, the truth is everybody who is going through it has a completely different journey, a completely different experience. And an outsider cannot really get it. You know what I mean? So I absolutely, I mean, I absolutely agree with what she said. Okay. And for those who are listening and who may want to know, because we are considering all manner of people who are watching right now listening, sorry. What do they need to do? Is there a, are there measures to take to, to prevent, you know, cancer? Well, it depends. So here is the thing. When we say cancer, we're talking about a group of diseases that have similar characteristics, but it's also a very heterogeneous group. So it's like me saying what causes disease or is there something you can do to prevent disease? The next question you're going to ask me is which one? Because there are many, there are over a hundred different types of cancer, right? But the most common cancers are breast, prostate, cervix in Nigerian women, in Africa women, GIT, bowel cancers, and then I would say maybe head and neck cancers. The thing with those ones are there are tests that can be, so breast cancer can be screened for and detected early. And early detection increases survival. Okay. The good news with breast cancer is that now, you know, breast cancer has become a very treatable condition. So sometimes I explain to people that try to imagine somebody who has hypertension or who has diabetes. They're going to be living with this for quite some time. They're going to be on treatment with it for the rest of their life. So that's where we are. So it can be screened for and detected early and that increases the chances of you being able to eradicate and defeat it or even live with it for longer. Prostate cancer can be screened for. Again, there are guidelines for this screening. So depending on what your race is, what part of the world you live in, I tell African men to start prostate cancer screening at the age of 40. Okay. Yes. Why did you raise your eyes at that? Same thing with colon cancer. It can be screened for. Cervical cancer can be prevented through HPV vaccination to doing a PAP test. It can be detected early and removed through a cone biopsy. So the truth is we have gotten to a point in the world where no woman ever needs to have cervical cancer again. And those are the most common cancers that you will find in our environment. You may not be able to prevent all cancer, but the most common ones can many times be prevented or screened for. All right. All right. So early detection is very important. Very good. Okay. I want to come back to Denise. Denise, you've been through quite a great experience here or a very difficult time and you're still standing. From my observation with friends and family that have gone through this, there are two groups of people involved. The family member or the friend who is going through treatment and the family members of friends of support group themselves. Can you share some tips with those who are watching who may have a similar experience and maybe going through a difficult time who need to draw strength and also some advice from you? Can you share tips on how to go through such a process, a period and experience in life successfully? Yes. Thank you. That is, that's very interesting because I'm none of the above. I am actually efficient. Okay. So let's look at it from what I have and what I felt and how I felt. So when I was diagnosed, one of the first things, I didn't, you know, I didn't shut myself out. So I would say don't, don't shut the doors. And one of the biggest mistakes are the fact that we think that it's not, we didn't, we're going to deny it. So, yeah. So I'm going to try and put the terms in basic terms. You go through denial. No, that's not what's wrong with me. And knowing that cancer can, and it's an everyday illness. I see it as an everyday illness from the layman perspective in the sense that it is assumed that cancer is very complicated, but a headache can lead to cancer and you would have a headache and not even notice which is what happened to me. A headache led to me, to my secondary. So that's not my primary disease. The primary disease is breast cancer. But it was a headache that I was used to diagnose it. And so when I'm going to talk to people on what they need to understand is family needs, family needs to support and hear the person going through it, not dictate what you think the person is going through, or what they need, or how they're going to go through it, because you don't understand the body of the person that is going through it. And so their pain is not, taking chemo is very painful. Living, the side effects of the drugs have different effects on different people. I won't sleep now for some time, and then I will shut down and the body starts to shut down and has to repay itself. That's the process. But I don't want you to say, oh, you can't do this. You can't do that. No, no, no. We'd like you to say, what would you like me to do? Not do this, because you can't tell me whether I need paracetamol or whether I need coca-cola. You don't know that. I'm the one that knows I'm the one that's sitting on that chair. Diarrhea is one of the biggest side effects of chemo, for instance, and just helping people to work through their diet, because we lose our appetite. We don't want to eat. And then we told, oh, you have to eat vegetables or you have, no, no, no, please tell people to eat whatever they can just to get through that particular pain. Period, because they require the strength for the body to heal. And if you're not, if you're saying this person says you go this way or this person says you go that way, no, no, no, that is really wrong because people died because they were following a diet that was not actually necessary. You go from, I was at a point I had a head almost twice the size. I went to a point because I've had brain tumors. I was on steroids. My neck was out. It was a very horrible feeling. And I, my hand, because I've got what you call breast cancer. So I had lymphedema. Swole up on one. So a shot I would wear on one hand doesn't fit the second hand. Doesn't mean, and we don't need you to be telling us what is right or you're looking for it or you're looking for it. No, no, no, no. We need to just love us the way we are and work with us the way we are. A lot of people also run on the religion part of it. I am a very strange Christian. I believe God to the last, but the truth is even God will not be happy if you sat there and didn't do anything because the doctors have a role. Your God is playing a role in your life, irrespective of cancer anyway. So balance this thing because the wisdom and the knowledge and understanding what's going on also comes from God. So why are we separating what is going on with God or saying God will do this? Are you saying, you know, I just, I've just struggled with that. I had a friend that stayed with me. I had a child who was very young at the time and I had to come to realities with it. And having to tell your child, your children that, you know what, I'm going to tell you now that these are the plans and you've got to know. Parents, please talk to your children when you find yourself in this position because if anything happens, where do they go? Who are they going to? You didn't tell them what to do. You've left them now because you were saying, you were praying rather than saying to them, okay, what are the realities? Because the realities is we can die. And the faster we understand that, the better for all of us. If instead of us fighting, we can, we should say, I will do the best I can to fight this and not let this thing take me down. And so when you say I'm doing pretty good, I'm really doing pretty good because I'm doing what has to be done. I'm facing, facing, facing each step as it goes. I really, I can't see it any other way. But to be honest with you, there are two sides and I would like people to balance it. There's faith, it plays a very important part, but there's also I'm doing what the doctors say, just do it. Your family here, your brothers or sisters or your friends, please hear the patience, not what you think. That's not good. All right. Interesting. I don't want to answer your question. Yes, yes. Thanks for helping us understand. I think that's very key that we listen to you and we understand what exactly it is that you're going through and how we should even also react and go through this with you from this side and even those around who we have in this part of the world. It's very important. You've talked about faith. I've listened to a number of interviews over the years of persons who are going through cancer treatment, cancer survivors talking about the place of belief, believing that they will come out of it, believing that they will make it, that that played a role in speeding up their recovery. Is that something that you believe or you've seen to be true? Okay. If I take it from a different perspective now, I will tell you that our lives are not in our hands as humans anyway. So when you look at a doctor working to care for you, they are working within the tools that they can. A doctor can't tell you you will make it. I was diagnosed with according to statistics. I mean, I think an oncologist on the chair will tell you stage four breast cancer. The statistics are not very good. They are not because I've already got the met. I don't understand the terms, but I call it the met. So it's moved. A lot of the time they will tell you when it moves, it can move and it tends to move and it tends to move. But in the same way, doing what is right, seeking the help and remembering that faith. Yes, all those central, because for me, it's very central. I was able to sit down very quickly and just turn to the world. And I think maybe that's why it goes through it. I turned to the world and I decided, you know what, I'm not going to let a human being tell me what to do. I shut everybody out and I went to face my God and say, whatever the decisions are, let me know where I am going for me, not for anybody else. And gradually, I was able to go one step at a time, understand what was going on, understand how to go through it, live my prayer life differently from my journey on the cancer journey. And at the end of it, I decided, you know what, out of all of this, what have I benefited or what am I benefiting from this? That's how come I even set up the cancer foundation. Because living with it made me realize most people don't know anything about this. And a lot of us that have cancer do not even want to talk about it because the stigmatization anyway. So a lot of doors automatically are shut and you've got to find a purpose and I found a purpose for it. And I hope people will find a purpose for it. Even if it's just once in a week, if you've gone through the journey, go and hold somebody's hand or go to a cancer center and sit with people, it gives you a fulfillment as a patient, or a carer, or community, or faith workers. But faith, please, don't tell us, God forbid, it's not our portion, it's not going to go on praying and fasting. Praying and fasting without taking the medicine is a waste of time. Thank you very much, Denise. Doctor, let's come back to you. This year's theme is closing the care gap. And we're told that it's meant to raise awareness about the vast difference in cancer care prevention appeal from different sections of society, low income, high income and all that can avail. Tell us some more about the theme and what challenges do people in low income countries like Nigeria face as far as care for cancer patients is concerned and treatment and all that. So you know, the truth about it is that the theme, closing care gap, I feel as if it was almost a thought I had in my head and then, you know, somebody picked it out of my brain. There is a massive gap in cancer care in the world in general, more pronounced in Nigeria. So I work at the NSI Youth Cancer Center and you will find that what I have found is it's not just about the fact that, you know, many people have to pay out. Although my center has a health fund for those, for indigent patients who, you know, require financial assistance. But you find that it's not, it's also about people even understanding that there's access. There are many people who can be treated, who don't even know where to go for treatment, who don't even believe that treatment is available. Okay. And I couldn't agree more with what she said about faith. So sometimes, even when I'm counseling people, I often tell them listen, I'm a physician, I am ethically and legally required to give you these prognosis. Now you decide what to do with it. Hear me, okay. And understand that I need you to have treatment and you must have treatment. But then your faith plays a role in, you know, having treatment and helping you even get through the treatment is tough. But in terms of the care gap, you know, one of the things I'm so proud of my center for is, for example, children get a 50% discount on cost of treatments because again, cancer treatment costs can be catastrophic to any family. One of the things that we do is that we put a lot of effort into creating patient support programs for people with prostate cancer, people with cervical cancer. We have a break therapy program going, which was a massive care gap in Nigeria. For a long time, women with cervical cancer couldn't access break therapy. Break therapy is internal radiation, which is essential for the cure or cervical cancer. Now imagine a country with 200 million, where cervical cancer is the second most prevalent cancer in women in the country. And then one of the most essential parts of care required for them is simply not available in the whole country. So, you know, for me, the fact that we put a lot of effort into setting up that program is to making sure that it is working is something that I'm really proud of. And that's the only way we can close the care gap is by identity. The truth is, if you don't even know what the gap is, how do you close it? It's by identifying what the gap is and then really having that, you know, will that social will to address the gap to really make sure that you fix it. Okay, interesting, interesting. Denise, let's talk about your foundation, the calm mode cancer foundation. Tell us a bit about it. And also, also just also through some light on the funding issues as far as cancer treatment is concerned. Okay, let me let me do the funding first. One of the things like actually the doctor has just explained, there's a there's a misjoin in the fact of what is available in Nigeria. There is a cancer fund, but people don't even know it exists. There are lots of NGOs who are supporting people don't even know how to get it. But then in the same way, there are lots of people who are playing my view in their with their lives by claiming to have a disease they don't have to get quick money. And I hope that they realize it's very dangerous because when you call it sicknessful, then you will live with it. But they pay the if you if you require funding from the I mean, we as the NGOs can actually make referrals to people to to the to the what do you call it to the government for funding for a patient who we know requires it but they have to go through all the checks. So we will just tell you there's a government form you fill it's an online form and then we can then send we can follow up from that perspective to make sure that person or see that person did qualify to get funding. But there is NGOs are funding different differently globally we're getting funding so we don't have enough money and I don't think any country in the world we say they have enough money to fund cancer care. But they put it as a priority. Unfortunately, Nigeria doesn't see it as a priority. And it's very sad to have to say that. But it is a fact. And if we don't we have to tell ourselves the truth. Okay, quickly about about your foundation because of time just in one or two sentences. Okay, our foundation is predominantly set up on awareness. We don't do treatments. We teach we give you their awareness. We put up television. We have television program every two weeks on the it we're here today. We have a zoom activity that we run every month. So how can you be rich for those who who listening and want to get go through that process he just talked about how can you be rich. We are on common cancer foundation. You can find us on our Instagram. You can send us emails. You can sign us on our Facebook page. You can contact us if you find them if you go to any of the public spaces, you will find our contact number. And we're able to help out the people that need help. All right, it's been a really amazing Denise. I'm speaking with you this morning. And we are very confident that we'll continue to have more engagements with you going forward as well. Thank you very much for your time. Denise Angel is chief executive officer of car mode cancer foundation. You can Google them and I'll go and Instagram and get in touch with them. Dr. Deda Joseph, I wish we had more time with you as well. She's a clinical radiation oncologist. So we'll have you back in the studio sometime. Ladies, I'm so happy to be amongst you. Thank you very much for your time. Thanks for having me. Thank you. Thank you. Up next Ghana versus Nigeria, who will be at the Qatar World Cup right back. Stay with us.