 Good morning everyone. I'm Sumesh from NAT Calicut. Prior to 2003, we had been part of the university system affiliated to Calicut University. Till then, there was a common course for all the colleges. Between 2003 and 2005, we had an introduction to computing, but unfortunately there was very less programming stuff in that. In 2006, we had a syllabus revision and it was taught till last this year. Next year, we are again going to have a revision. The last curriculum, when I did the course, we had a course which is more stressed on the structured programming plus some amount of object-oriented. The syllabus is briefly set like this. In the first module, we have all this bit of introduction to computer hardware and software and then problem-solving approaches, algorithm, the flowchart and those steps, and design methodologies. Then in the second module, we had the programming constructs. Then in the third module, we continue with the other aspects of the primitive data structures and not like structure union and so on. In the last module, we have concepts from object-oriented programming and bit of other things like testing, verification methods and so on. This course was taught three hours per week in theory and there was no lab hour schedule. Even though lab was not scheduled, we used to conduct two hours of lab practice per week. Then in the new syllabus that is going to be implemented from next academic year onwards, we have slightly removed all this object-oriented stuff because we have a similar problem as pointed out by the Kurshetra people. We don't have enough faculty to teach all the means. We have around 400 to 500 students coming. What we did is we asked all the other departments to handle their own students. Anyway, it's a mix of students will come. One batch will be handled by each department. Because they have made a point that they are feeling it difficult to teach this object-oriented stuff, we have removed all those object-oriented concepts from the syllabus. Now it is mostly oriented to a structured programming thing. Essentially a C programming course. All the other modules that you mentioned, we use C for teaching that structured programming stuff. The faculty is free to use either C++ or Java to teach this thing. Anyway, we have a common syllabus for all. There will be a coordinator who will be deciding a guideline. According to that, all the teachers will be teaching. The teachers will be teaching CS teachers or they could come from any department. And you could have as many teachers as there are departments. So your batches are department-wise? Not department-wise. It's a mix of any batch. There may be students from civil, but we have the same problem of disparate background. But in a sense, it is a good idea to have mixed things for a common course. I don't know whether in your institutions a change of branch is permitted? Yeah, a change of branch is permitted based on the performance. In which case, if you have a very specialized courses for individual branches in first year, there could be a problem for people who change the branch. So far it was not there, but now in the next curriculum onwards, there is a foundation program in the basic branches. So that's the only thing. So this course is basically, the syllabus is, what about the C kind of things, data types? What is the evaluation pattern and same, etc? Evaluation pattern is like, we have a great system. So an enzyme will be of 50% then there will be two mid-times, each of 15% weightage and the remaining 20% is intended for the assignments and surprise cases and all. So we include that weightage for the programming assignments in this 20 marks. But there is no term project or something? No, no term projects so far because it is heavy to handle that so far. So we used to conduct the lab, means the lab practice sessions. At your place, as well as in Nagpur, this should apply to all regional engineering colleges, because you also have strong postgraduate programs, right? Yeah, yeah. So you should be having teaching assistants. Yeah, yeah, we have teaching assistants, on them only we rely much to conduct. So we'll have usually two to four teaching assistants. So here is a curiosity that I have personally, because last year I faced the music, do you have an orientation program for TAs? Yes, we do have a meeting before the course starts and even before all the lab sessions, we'll have a meeting. We'll plan a strategy. That is, we have, that is TA meeting, we have practically every week. But I am saying a common orientation program for teaching assistants. So far I think they are not done. We also never did that. Last year what we found is, MTech students also come from outside environment. They are not familiar with our institute ethos. So they take some time in getting familiar with things. And invariably what happens, as I mentioned yesterday, it is the first month during which the weaker students of first year require maximum hand holding. And it is precisely during the first month that my master students are also getting used to the notion of being teaching assistant. So they may not know the, they may not be familiar with equipment, background or installation and everything. And they fail to provide the same rigor of help. As a consequence, by the time that TAs are really useful, the need is gone. So this year we have done that. Why I am mentioning this is, you might find this kind of thing useful. This year for the first time, we'll be conducting a five day orientation program for all teaching assistants. So other departments were not very keen, but so we have said department-wise this orientation program will be handled. In CS department, what we propose to do is to effectively run what would have been a software lab for MTech students later, we run it in this orientation program. So they do exactly everything that you did. For example, installation of Ubuntu and those TAs which are going to be CS 101 TAs will actually run all the lab exercises which we plan later. It will be very rigorous thing and they will be doing in group projects also in five days. So it is like they are, additionally they will be trained in how to handle problems of undergraduate students, etc., etc. We believe that will be useful. We propose to audio, video, record all these interaction and make that available in open source as a training module for TAs. Maybe you'll find that useful. Because they are like teachers, you know, and the difference is we as teachers, although nobody taught us how to teach when we first came, but by experience we know how to teach. But the MTech TAs have no experience. They are fresh bees from somewhere, but that is good. So will I be right in assuming that almost all NITs have a very similar course structure? Who are the other colleagues from NITs? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. So we could perhaps generalize in so far as NITs are concerned because I believe they would have evolved in a very similar fashion. Originally they would have been associated with a, affiliated to a university. Then they would have become completely autonomous. Then they would have revamped their syllabus. I believe all of you would have a common course for programming for all branches. Is there any NIT which does not yet offer a common course for B Techs or bees? No. Everybody has this. All of you use C programming as the medium of instructions in programming course or somebody still uses Pascal? C plus plus. C plus plus. What about you? C. So very crudely put it, people are taught to use a C plus plus compiler to compile programs which are essentially C programs. Except as I said in the small example that I showed, C in and C out is actually an object oriented operator. Extremely easy to understand, extremely easy to use, but there is nothing C plus plus or object oriented about it. It is actually an abbreviation for simple input out. I mean in FORTRAN, whatever I could say read star and print star is what C in and C out is doing. Actually, I do not know how you teach SCANF and PRINTF to your students very early. Do they all understand exactly what is going on? I still have difficulty in understanding the syntax of SCANF. So anyway, but that is a, yeah, sorry. First, because in SCANF you need to pass the memory address and so on. So that becomes, they may understand. What I do is slightly different. I do a hash defy and I do not use SCANF and PRINTF and I do not read or write anything more than one value at a time. So that is the closest equivalent of C in and C out. So I have something like read integer, print integer, etc., etc. For the first few classes, after that once people pick up, see one advantage is that students coming to engineering colleges by and large are smart people and they are able to figure out and even if they do not understand the intricacy, they know that if you tell the computer this, this is the thing that damn fellow does. That is good enough for, so that is fine. So we can generalize then that all NITs have a similar structure, a common course for all branches, probably taught by multiple teachers and coordinated by one or two people. So you will have a common exam or something. But similar things are taught and do all of you also break students into two semesters first semester? Yeah, we do. But in Calicut… Yeah, we do divide into two semesters. Two semesters. Yeah. The same course is taught in first semesters and second semesters. So very common sense approach to a scaling problem adopted by all the institutions. The university of course is a different ball game altogether with so many colleges and so on. So let us now complete the interaction with non-NIT people. So in NIC 3C, your first semester is a C programming course. Yes. Okay. The total 22 credit, the C programming for the 3 credit. This is a subject CS 101. Wow. This is the name we use here also. Yes. The basics of programming. Oh, you call it basics of programming. That is correct. Yes. But incidentally you use C programming. C programming. Okay. This is a combined subject theory and lab. So how many… Two-third theory, one-third lab. So… So how many hours per week for lectures and lab? Two-hours lecture, two-hours practicalization, 202. Okay. Among total credit, two-third theory, one-third lab. That is 66.6. But you mentioned that there is a follow-up course for all branches, is it? Yes. This is a common course for all the branches. Okay. In the first semester. The second semester we have a subject, basic engineering 1 and 2. Okay. I think… But that's an engineering course. Yes. Okay. Please, just you display this. I think… Actually the basic engineering are civil, mechanical, electrical. Okay. For example, in the second semester, one subject, the mechanical and second subject is civil. The students from civil engineering, electrical engineering, ECE and ICE, instrumentation and control. Suppose the student from civil and chemical, they will learn the first subject as mechanical, second subject as electrical. In this way. It's very funny. So, to civil engineer, you want to ensure that he learns all other subjects. Yes. Similarly, electrical engineer should learn all other subjects. Yes. But he did not do basic electrical engineering. Yes. Because… Second one more subject, they have the branch specific course. Okay. The second semester itself, that is in the first year. Okay. And what do computer science students do? They have the branch specific course. But they don't study basic engineering. They will learn the mechanical and civil. Oh, they will learn mechanical. Yes. I see. All the ten branches, it will come in this pattern. So, there is nothing… No programming is taught to other branches after this course. Yes. Except perhaps senior years of mechanical or other departments could end up teaching computational fluid dynamics or numerical analysis and so on. That is by self-learning. Those will be elective courses for other departments. Yes. They will take care. Okay. Good. This is a very interesting thing. We also have… We have started a new complication in IIT from last year. We now have a major and a minor process. Okay. So, I could either do a basic degree. We take in electrical, computer science, mechanical, whatever. Or I could do an honors degree, in which case I have to do more credits in that subject. Or I could do a major in one subject and a minor in another subject. And we have a huge confusion now because we have to offer apart from courses to our students. We have to say these courses will constitute a minor for other students. And earlier, the sequencing of computer science courses was dependent only on what you have taught them earlier. But now you have to ensure that the minor students can also take those courses. So, it is a lot of fun these days. Okay. And similarly, the evaluation pattern for theory, two cycle tests each carrying 20 marks. Okay. Assignment 10 marks, end semester 50 marks, total 100. This will be connoted to two-third. Okay. And lab also will have some marks, which will be… Lab 75 marks, continuous assessment. 25 marks, test, end semester. Final lab exam. Total 100, connoted to one-third. Okay. Put together, consider for the grade. But since you teach this course to all branches. Yes. The evaluation is common for all… Evaluation is common, syllabus is common. Okay. Question paper is also common. Okay. So, there again… There will be a coordinate teacher. He will coordinate all the teachers, then they will arrange. The same program, they will practice it in the lab also. Right. Okay. But you don't have any group projects for first-year students. No, we don't have the group projects. No. Because the period is maximum 12 weeks, 10 to 12 weeks. Oh. Why is that? This is a one-semester course. Yeah, but a semester I thought was typically 13 to 15 weeks, no, or 14 to 16 weeks. Because two of us theory, two of us lab. No, no. I am talking about the total number of weeks. No, I am talking about total number of weeks. So, do you have two mid-semester exam schedules or… Yes, yes, yes. Two mid-semester exam schedules. Oh. So, you lose two weeks there. Yes. That is not the exam. The cycle test is scheduled. Yeah, cycle test. Yes. So, for that test, you need to lose two weeks, almost. I don't know how many people are aware of this. But Trichy was the first institute to install a local area network. I think it was a novel network, long, long. I mean, I am talking about decades ago. Yes. And you had done it ahead of most IITs. Oh. This you may not know, of course. Yes. You were not there perhaps. So, Trichy has that distinction. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The whole institute, they had put a land. When we were implementing lands in IITs, Trichy had gone ahead and completed that whole work. The astonishing feat. Because you had slightly less budget than even IITs had. Yes. But somebody showed remarkable leadership in that institute and said, this is the priority. I must take computing to all my teachers and students. Now, of course, everybody has a local area network. Thank you. Okay, thank you. Hello, all of you. I am Munir Ahmad Dar from Dohex Center, Sinar. Sorry, I did not get your name. Munir Ahmad Dar. Okay, Munir Dar, yes. From Dohex Center, Sinar. First of all, I would like to give you the introduction about the Dohex Center. It was formally CEDTI, Center for Electronics Design and Technology of India. It is under the department of MCIT, History of Communication and Information Technology, located in twin capital cities of JNK, that is, Sinar and Jammu. We offer both formal and non-formal courses. In formal courses, we offer MCA, that is in affiliation with Kashmir University and approved by AICT. In the first semester, we have Programming Language Principles as one of the papers. We have towards higher level language, comparison of language, paradigms, different paradigms that ought to be taught in the first Programming Language Principles. It is in the first semester of MC. In the second semester, we have, for this course, it's three classes and two labs in a week. In the second semester, we have Advanced Concepts in C and C++, Object-Oriented Concepts in Heritance, all these things. Now, in case of the Dohex courses, we have B level, that is MCA equivalent. This is the national level course, B level. And here, we have to start with, basically, one can do the B level only. He is competent enough to join the B level after completing A level. Wherein, we have A level, we are going through the Programming Language, Programming and Problem solving through C. We have, for B level, or one should be a graduate, then only he can join B level. Programming and Problem solving through C language. We have total 120 hours, it is to be covered in the first semester, and 60 lectures and 60 practicals. Basically, sir, I am teaching to the B level students as well as to the MCA students. But the comparison is its national level. Here, the pattern of the paper is very different. What you said last time that we can skip some portion of the syllabus. That's not true in case of the B level course. The first, I will have a look at the question paper for this. We have two parts in the question papers. The first part is objective type. Where we have, say, one of the question is what will be the output of the following program segment. Another is, say, matching or flint the blanks. One who can cover first portion, then only the second theoretical part will be evaluated. This is the prerequisite. It's very difficult. First part, then only second part will be evaluated. Fifty percent he has to cover. That means most of the students are not able. If they will cover only the 50 percent of the syllabus, then they will not be able to qualify B level examination. That is the good pattern that is given by the Doig Society in New Delhi. And we have, in case of MCA, that is in affiliation with the Kashmir University, wherein we have four modules or four chapters. We can cover only, say, 60 percent of the syllabus. And because we have a choice out of five questions, three questions are to be done, two questions, one can leave. And that is the pattern followed by the University of Kashmir. This is the only institution, sir, wherein we have projection system in each and every lab. And we have 12 projectors in each and every lab and classroom. Thank you. We are funded by MCIT. That's why we are... What is your observation about the level of students' preparation as well as their enthusiasm? Basically, for this MCA, the students are better for MCA course because there is some entrance examination. They qualify that examination, then only they appear. But the syllabus is not that competent. In case of B level, the syllabus is good. Students are not well prepared. Students, one who cannot qualify the entrance, go for the B level. So why don't you suggest to Kashmir University to adopt the DOECC pattern and syllabus? I think MCA students will benefit. If we will ask to them, they will cancel the affiliation. We cannot... You can see the fear complex under which a college has to live within a university-affiliated system. I appreciate whatever he says. I have seen the same problem being faced by most colleges. Basically, you can't make too much avaj. Otherwise, you will be castigated. Right, sir. In terms of these practical exams, for these DOECC students, DOECC B level, we are not the conductive authority. Papers are set by the DOECC Society New Delhi. All the evaluators are from their side. And we have to just conduct the external exams on it. And in case of MCA students, we have internal exams, internal 25 marks for labs as well as for this theory part. That means 50 marks are with us. So if you consider the labs or the programs that people write... Roughly, what is the length of program that an average student writes for the MCL lab as well versus this lab? For the first semester students, it will be roughly 200 lines. But for the fifth semester student, it will be... He can develop a program in .NET, wherein he can develop a project. Well, the higher abstractions you use, the number of lines of code reduces its meaning. Because most of the program, you then use code generators basically. Doing a prescriptive thing. Okay, fair enough. Thank you, Prasadar. Thank you. Good morning to all of you. Myself, T.Shiwakumar, PSG College of Technology, Coimbatore. So PSG running, PSG Polytechnic and the College of Technology in the same campus. And Polytechnic is established in the year 1939. And College of Technology established in the year 1951. By the way, PSG College is also one of the oldest colleges in South India. Yes. So we are running 22 departments and around 50 programs. So in general, the Computer Science coming under Department of CAC, Department of IT and Mathematics are all three different departments. Department of CAC, Connecting B, CAC, ME-CAC and ME Software Engineering. All three programs comes under Department of CAC. And under the Department of IT, BTEC, IT and then MTECH IT. And under the Department of Computer Applications, both are same, Mathematics and Computer Applications, MSE Applied Mathematics, MCA, MSE Software Engineering, MSE Theoretical Computer Science. So I'm working in IT department. So the programming, programming syllabus is entirely different. That is, CAC people, they frame their own syllabus, MCA separate and IT is separate. What about mechanical and civil? For other branches, common syllabus. For other branches, there is a common syllabus. Common syllabus. Mechanical, civil, metallurgy, energy. But your department does not believe in teaching the same syllabus to your students. We only teach. People from CAC, IT and MSE. You teach to mechanical engineers. Yes. But to your own students, you will teach differently. Different syllabus. Syllabus is different. For them, slightly different. That's all. But faculty from CAC or MSE or IT only teach the other branch programming syllabus. But the courses taught within CAC, IT and Maths also may have some differences. Yes, yes. In the first curriculum in the syllabus. So basically no common course, right? Common course. For IT department, the subject title is C programming 3024, 3 hours lecture per week, no tutorial, 2 hours lab, 4 credit. So in the first unit, we cover the introduction to problem solving and then programming languages and then see data types and all and then functions, control statement up to preprocessor. Violent. What about the CAC and Maths? They would not have similar courses for them. Mostly they may have similar syllabus but the textbook they may follow differently. I see. So I can say CAC, Maths have similar course. Similar course only. Textbook may differ. What about other branches? Other branches, slightly at the end of there will be more less pointer concept and preprocessor directories. File will be there. Okay. But we will concentrate more on pointers and structure, union, file for the IT and CAC people. So can I say other branches have essentially a subset of this syllabus? Yes, yes. Yes. And what are the portions that you omit? Sir. The portions which are omitted for mechanical, civil, etc. could be pointers for example. Pointer. We will give small introduction pointers. Right. All exercises and things like that. Yes. And then the preprocess that will be less for them. And then file processing also for them just we will give the introduction. I will say only intro. Yes. And then pattern matching that and all will be available for the other branches. Fair enough. But essentially they are all similar courses. Yes. And how is the teaching done? You said the CS, IT and Maths faculty will teach to all other disciplines also. Discipline. Your college is autonomous or is affiliated? Autonomous. Autonomous since. What about the other colleges in the region? Most of the colleges are, I think around Coimbatore, 4 or 5 colleges are autonomous. Remain all comes under Anayana University, Coimbatore. Now again Anayana University divided into Anayana University Chennai, Coimbatore, Madurai, Tucci, Tirunelveli. So it is coming under Anayana University, Coimbatore. Again under Anayana University, Coimbatore around I think more than 170 colleges are there. Anayana University, Coimbatore itself has 170 colleges. Yes. Coming under Anayana University, Coimbatore. The whole state of Rajasthan does not have so many colleges. You might want to go back and ask your state to start more colleges than Jaipur, which is from Jaipur. You have only 150 colleges. One fourth of the state has 170 colleges. So coming to these colleges because when you conduct this workshop, apart from a few teachers of your own college, you will be helping a whole lot of other teachers as well. Yes. So for them, there is a common course in C programming for first year. Yes. In the university itself, C programming is there. Problem solving using C programming. Fine. So Anayana University is called what? Coimbatore. Anayana University, Coimbatore. And like that you said there are 4 Anayana universities. Anayana University, Tricchi. Tricchi. Tirunelveli. Tirunelveli. Madurai. Chennai. Madurai. Madurai is also they are going to establish. One more. One more. God bless you. I thought Andhra Pradesh had the maximum number of colleges. Somebody from Marangal here. So you have very large number of colleges. You also have these multiple universities. You used to have a J&TU or J&TU, one J&TU, two J&TU, like Anayana University. And 500 and they all have a common course in programming like this, C programming course. So when you conduct a workshop, many teachers could benefit from these colleges. The colleges. Around Marangal. Yes sir. Itself. Yes. Oh. And around Hyderabad, 50 to 60 colleges are there. So Dr. Mantha is right in his apprehension that how do we handle so many teachers. Coming to the evaluation pattern is 50-50, 50 continuous assessment and 50 marks for final examination. 50-50. 50-50. Okay. The 50 internal, 20 marks we will conduct three tests. Among the two we will take best two. So. 30 marks. Best two out of three. Three tests. Yes. And one exam. Final exam. Final exam for 50 marks. And the remaining 20 marks is depends upon the faculty member. So this is final exam is 50 marks, tests are 30 marks. 30 marks. And 30 marks you say internal evaluation. Yes. Increase assignment and whatever the faculty members can give, but that should be presented in front of the students in the first meeting what is the split of for the 20 marks. So basically I have to declare my evaluation scheme. Yes. So in the first week we will conduct a meeting along with the students and four or five students. Here usually the teacher discusses it, I mean announces it in the first or second lecture and we put it on the mood. There we have a meeting in front of end of the department and all the faculty members and four or five students. We will sit together and we will finalize the 20 marks split up. If there any clarifications the students can ask. Good morning. My name is Swapnali Kurade from GH Raishoni College of Engineering. From Raishoni. From Raishoni. GH Raishoni College of Engineering, Nagpur. Affiliated to RTI University. I was wondering not only M.U. Deshpande but my friend Professor Jaju used to be at Raishoni College. Yes sir. Till recently. Hi. Now he is in VCC. Yes. So our college is affiliated to Nagpur University and we are currently running seven courses that is Computer Science, IT, Electronics, Electronics and Telecom, Electrical, Mechanical, Civil and all of these courses are having computer programming subjects with C programming and but the courses or the syllabus are different for all this. How? So you mean Nagpur University has prescribed ten different syllabus for ten different branches? Yes. Because we are having other like computer engineering, computer means C tech, computer technology. So all these are having different syllabus. I am now really amazed. I have not understood the difference between computer engineering and computer technology and computer science. Computer science. Yes. Right. So are you trying to say that a programming course for computer engineering could be different from a programming course for computer technology? No. Exactly. They will be having the C programming only but with this slide difference would be there in the. And what about mechanical and electrical and other students? Again the same C programming with maybe some have introduced with numerical computing, some with slide data structure, some with computer graphics that would be there. Is this option given to an individual teacher or is it prescribed by university? No, no, no. Prescribed in syllabus. So you mean your university has actually gone to the length of defining variations of C programming course? Yes. Amazing. We should give them some award or something. Never seen, never seen. But how do you practically handle it then? Sir our teachers means from computer science or IT department they go for the, in various department to teach the way means the C programming subjects. So it is essentially a C programming course. Right. Programming fundamentals in C or programming language C like this the name would be there. In CSA it is programming. With variations. I will say with variations. With variations. Okay. So we instead asked you what I should guess as common features. So you would, in every course you will describe probably the basic data types. Yes sir. You will define the control structures. Right, right, right. If, if then else, whatever, whatever. Functions, files. Functions, files. Structs. Structures. Unions. Right, right, right. Everything. Unions may not be used but at least structs would be useful. Yeah, structures. And some pointers. Pointers. And you will have some actual practical problems. Let's say arrays would be introduced as well. Arrays and everything. Okay. Everything which is a practical issue. So then I am curious what is the difference. Suppose I am a mechanical engineer. What less do I learn from a computer technology student in my own college? Because I should be, if I learn all of this then I know as much programming as the computer science joker does. But for me there will be a separate paper, is it? Right. Separate, same evaluation scheme will be there. 4, 1, 2. If the Nagpur University has 10 branches, there will be 10 different papers. Yes, right. God bless you. And a beautiful example of how I can mess up a very simple life. I would very strongly suggest that you go and talk to your vice chancellor personally. You can see, I mean you have a representative group across the country. Right. And they are not just NITs. They are other people also. Yours is probably the only university which has this kind of thing. Some universities do seem to make a distinction between programming courses taught to CSIT students and others. But even that distinction is vanishing as we saw. Even in NITs now you have a common cause to everyone. And it's high time you did that. Of course, your department, your CSIT department only ends up teaching this. Yes, sir. To all other disciplines. Yes. How many students do you have per year in your college? For example, that input will be 600 students. So you also break these up into sort of batches or something or how the class is handled. The 600 students. Our means their respective department what we can see. Oh, departments, so you teach department wise. Right. Department wise. So you will say department wise batches. Sir, this course is… That is because the course syllabus is different. This course is introduced in not in first year. It is in third sem of fourth sem. Third sem of? Third semester of engineering. Third semester? Third semester, not in the first year. So that's why it's not common. So it is in third sem either in electronics or electronics and communication it comes in fourth semester. Oh, so the old pattern what… And computer science students study it in the first year. Third semester. They also study it. Yeah, because it's not common, it could have been introduced in first year. No, I am talking about computer science students. So, for first year, full year they have no motion of programming. No, nothing. God bless you. I think you have made the life of your students very, very complicated. Yeah, it's true, but nothing, I began on how to do anything. This is the problem that as I can see many NITs had. In fact, by the way in IIT Bombay also, the course used to be in the third year. Third year first semester for some branches. Third year second semester for some branches. When I was a member of the Sukhatbe committee which reorganized the program for a four-year BTEC. That is the time when we said programming can be and should be taught in first year, first semester. So, this change happened in IIT in 1981-82. Since then we have been teaching it in first semester. But you are teaching it in third semester. Third semester. That is in second year. You need to immediately seek an appointment with your vice chancellor and tell him the same thing. One mad professor says this is nonsense. What you are positively achieving is geopolitizing the prospects of your students. They will necessarily be weaker than other students. I am talking about computer science and IT students. Computer science and IT students who have no background in programming for one full year. I can't imagine what would be the impact. We will some day discuss what exactly computer science do in the first year. First year they will be doing common courses. Common course. Which is like physics, chemistry, maths. Engineering. Engineering, mechanics. Mechanics. Electrical and all. You see what happens is if I want to teach data structures for example. Data structures is typically a sequel to basic computer programming. So I can't practically run any useful course in parallel with the programming course. As long as the programming is not studied, people can't understand and appreciate other things. But I suspect your computer science and IT department will be forced to run a few things parallel with programming. Otherwise you can't complete adequate portions in computer science in the four years. God bless you. I can only wish you good luck. Very useful information to us. Not very useful to students. Now coming back to the usefulness of this workshop then. You still believe that this workshop could be useful to a large number of teachers. Because they have to teach some variant of C programming. Whether it is a third semester level or whatever. Whatever level it may be. And roughly how many teachers are involved in teaching. So as many as there are departments because you will have batches department wise. But all teachers are from CS and IT. Do you have sufficient faculty to do this? We have. We do have. And the examination pattern? Examination teaching pattern is like four theory. One tutorial and two hours of practical. This is the most exhaustive we have seen so far by the way. Most of us have 202 or 302 kind of thing. This is 412. And evaluation for the exam is for 80-20. 80 for theory and 20 for internal assessment. And this 20 for this we require to give. Students are giving session exams. Two session exams. Session one, session two. And one pre-term exam or pre-university exam. And also we have allowed or give some weightage for attendance. And also for assignments and all. So this 20 marks is going to include all this. And for practical we have 25-25. 50 marks. 25 for internal and again 25 for external. And this 80 marks theory paper is a single paper? It is a single paper. Does it have options or all components? It has. Students have to solve 6 out of 10. What I did in 1964, 65, 66, 67, 68. You are doing in 2010, 2011, 2012, etc. But that is a university practice so you cannot. How many colleges are there in Nagpur University? Approx 35 to 37 it would be. Approx 35. About 35 colleges? In university. So they all follow the same? Same, same pattern, same pattern. Is there any move to change this pattern by the way? Just like other universities also said. Actually this was revised round about 2 years ago. So maybe next year it will be revised again. And actually our college is going for autonomy. Don't they consult NITs in such matters? Because most other universities will typically have some professors from NIT on their board or something like that. Yes sir, they consult. We had an advantage that time because this so-called computer science course that was run only at VRC. So you could define this. Yeah, so it was almost autonomous by that. And then whatever our other departments used to follow. So at that time VRC had a lot of influence on what decisions get taken in the university. And they used to actually define the course and things like that. As she was describing what I am finding is the pattern which was there in VRC, it is still being followed in university. So whereas NIT has evolved and they have moved ahead. The university has not moved ahead. Coming back to the board of studies. Now what is happening is NIT no longer has an influence over university. What at most they can do is they can go on board of studies of different colleges and suggest something. And now the move has started. Like she said, Raishoni College and other colleges, Ramdevava College. So they are going for autonomy and they make it autonomy in one year or so. And there just a couple of weeks back there was a meeting at the other Ramdevava College where a couple of our professors went. And that college had come up with their own credit structure but there were some anomalies over there. So our professors actually told them what the anomalies are and what the structuring should be. So that kind of and even I had also gone to their college. Yeah but what happens is that such initiatives will be limited only to the few good and well-known colleges. Not every college can become autonomous. But my contention is that there are very good students studying even in the smallest of the colleges. Yes, yes. So why should they not benefit from this advantage? The only I think the only problem that I see and I need to verify is that even though colleges consult the VNIT, the university has its own set of administrators. I would even suggest that you go out of the way to proactively suggest. After all I mean university is an organization all right. So is the board but the board members are individual human beings who are professors in some places. It might be worthwhile. Do take my name, IIT Bombay name, government of India name, whatever. But you say that you would just like to suggest that just like NIT, not only yours, but you can say that all other NITs that you have seen, IITs that you have seen are putting this course in first year, first semester and you might want to consider. If there is no move then nothing will happen. See what you are approaching, I admire your approach, acquiring autonomy and solving the problem for yourself. What will be the rest? Right. And if the bigger you are, the greater is your responsibility for rest of the world. Don't forget that. Anyway, thanks. So this is useful information. Fortunately for us, the workshop that we are planning, not only this but other workshops are likely to be useful, independent of the semester that you teach or whatever course. Okay, fair enough. Myself Bholanath Rai, I am from NIT Bhopal. In our college there are 11 UG courses and 28 PG courses. Where in MCA department and 11 UG courses, the C programming is taught. There are 590 students in UG. This 590 student is divided into two parts, 300 each. The theory papers have... No, I think you can skip that because we are assuming that it will be similar. What I wanted to know is that there are 500 students within Bhopal itself. Yeah, NIT Bhopal. And how many colleges are there? NIT Bhopal is... No, not your college, but other colleges. In Bhopal, there are 80 colleges around. 80? 80. Are you serious? Yeah. The Bhopal population cannot support so many students here. Sir, in every year 10 to 15 colleges are started. In a single campus, 3 to 4 colleges is running. You are running a Chinese production factory. Okay. Next. And in our college the evaluation system is... No, no, that's okay. We will take it as red because it will be similar to this. That's okay. Yeah. Very good morning to all of you. Myself Rajeev from NIT Hamirpur. We have around 500 students in NIT Hamirpur. And again we have same structure like similar to another NITs. So two section, one section we used to read in even semester. Another one is in odd semester. And other thing like evaluation, we have two session exams. How many other colleges are there in... We have 15 to 20, nearby to our Himachal as well as in Punjab. Sorry. 43 colleges in Punjab, engineering colleges and probably... From... From same. NIT Hamirpur. Hamirpur only. Yes, sir. Okay, okay. So the colleges... 10 to 15 colleges in Himachal Pradesh. Yes. And 43, probably 43 colleges in Punjab. Oh, I see. Am I right, ma'am? Around 50, around 50. But from a travelling perspective, how long does it take to travel to Hamirpur from northern Punjab, let's say? Of course, Punjab itself is a small state. From Hamirpur to Chandigarh, it will take around 8 hours. 8 hours. Yeah. Because of road and connectivity is poor. But if teachers want to attend this workshop at Hamirpur, they can come and stay at Hamirpur and do the workshop, right? But they can approach NIT Jalandhar, I think, from Punjab. Yeah, NIT Jalandhar. And from Haryana, they can approach NIT Kurukshetra. Yeah, yeah. We have to cater only to Himachal Pradesh, I think. Yes. Am I right? There will be enough teachers in Himachal itself to take care of. Of course, 14 colleges are there. Yeah, 14 colleges. And they are also growing day by day. Okay. They are also growing. Fine. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Good morning, everybody. I am Anirban Sarkar from NIT Durgapur. We have basically a principle, introduction to programming in the first semesters and second semesters divided into groups. And for MCA, CSC and IT, they have been higher semesters. For IT, BTEC and CSC, BTEC at four semesters. MC at second semesters, they have object-oriented programming course. That is another course. Approximately how many students, Anirban? You have totally... For BTEC, there is 637 students. And for MCA intake, now it is 78. So like others, you were also affiliated to a university before... Earlier it is with the Badwan University. But on that time, basically REC Durgapur, only the engineering college run many courses at Badwan University. But now there are many institutions with Badwan University. But now you have West Bengal Technical University. Yeah. So do they also have a course in C programming? Yeah, they have the C programming course in the second semesters, majorly. Even though in Badwan University, what are the colleges we have, they have also in the second semester. Because they are following our earlier course pattern of REC. But you are confident that if you run this workshop there, large number of teachers from colleges around could benefit? Yeah, of course they will get benefit. Wonderful. And there is an open source initiative. Already it is running for the last four years in our institutions through a Linux user group and IOTA one organizations are there. There are initiatives from the government of West Bengal as well. So we are also a counter part of that one. So we are running with open source some courses with the teachers of schools and colleges earlier. So there we have got a lot of response from the schools as well. So of course it will be from colleges. Very good. And our colleague from… I am Rajneesh from NIT Jalandhar. And in NIT Jalandhar there are eight disciplines, engineering disciplines and around 500 students are there. And again computer science course is common for all the branches and it is run in two batches. First semester and second semester. And same pattern is followed as in other NITs. And in Punjab as already professor said there are 45 to 50 colleges, engineering colleges. And they all have a course in C programming. So their teachers could benefit through this workshop as well. They all are under Punjab Technical University. Or you also a common technical university now in Punjab? Punjab Technical University. Same pattern is followed. Where is this university located? In Jalandhar itself. So like we were discussing earlier, do they have any rapport or discussion or any interlinkage with activities in NIT Jalandhar? Nothing. I would suggest even otherwise forget the formal association but some association will help because NITs are necessarily going to be the strongest engineering institutions in those states. And if they don't contribute through some interaction and also there could be a lot of learning. There could be some great colleges in the university where NITs could learn. Earlier PTO campus is within REC campus. Now it is. Now it is. Now you are basically separated. Okay fine. Thank you. I am Srinivasah Charya from NIT Warangal. So we offer problem solving and programming course for BTEC first year. About 800 students divided into two semesters. One semester, six sections and another semester, six sections. Total of 12 sections. And how many students you said about same? 800. 800. 800 students in two semesters. In two sems. And the neighboring university that JNU mentioned, they also have a course in programming like this. They also have a course in programming in the first year. In the first year. Yes. Like your NIT course. Yes. And how many colleges will be there in the vicinity of Warangal? Around 30. So at least these teachers from these 30 colleges should... Actually in the last summer, 2009 summer, we have conducted 17 refrigerated programs under MHRD. So the response was very good. Okay. And also NIT Warangal is a part of pilot project of curriculum design and development under the IIT... Sorry, coordinated by IIT Kharagpur under national mission project on education through ICT. So we have... IIT Kharagpur has selected 17 courses. We have applied for 34, but Kharagpur has selected 17 courses out of which this computer programming course is there. And computer science is developing four courses out of which this... So is the course material developed under that initiative? Sir. Is it available in open source? No. Now it is under review process. Actually we have developed the course material for three units. But after... So it is under review process. After review... Yeah it will... Are you planning to put it in open source? No. It is decided by the IIT Kharagpur. Okay. So I'll talk to Damodar Acharya then... Yes sir. Who is in charge of CS department? Yes sir. CS department. Who? No. I didn't remember the name exactly, but... Okay okay. I'll give the name... What I'll give the name of the coordinator. Because then what we could do is that in our subject portal... Yes. We could take entire contribution you have made. Yes. Reviewed by IIT Kharagpur. Yes. And put it in a section. Yes. As additional material available to people. Yes. The idea here is that create as much useful content as possible and make it accessible to students and teachers. Yes. Then people will figure out what to do. Okay. Thank you.