 And thank you so much to joining us for another amazing fry yay where our exclusive sponsor fundraising Academy supports each and every Friday. And we want to thank our presenting sponsors of the nonprofit show for supporting each and every episode. I believe this is 357 if I'm adding my, my, my ones onto the previous shows from this week so we have had as you've seen just a really phenomenal lineup. And we attribute our success truly to our sponsors we're so grateful to have their investment, their commitment to the sector to the shows and to the thought leaders and overall experts that we are able to bring in. So thank you for joining us Julia Patrick is here the CEO of the American nonprofit Academy. I'm Jared ransom also known as the nonprofit nerd CEO of the Raven group. And we are just so glad to have all of you joining us today for our ask and answered. If you miss any of these live or if you want to go back and see any of our previous recorded shows. You can absolutely do that so there are plenty of places where you can find it. And first of all probably from the comfort of your couch if you have a smart TV could simply say the nonprofit show and we will pull up on Roku fire TV YouTube as well and then of course on the American nonprofit Academy website and a few more places I'm sure I'm missing. Yeah, it's kind of crazy. You know we have this amazing person on our team Kevin pace our executive producer, and it seems like he's always like running into my office saying, Okay, I just got us, you know, affiliated with X, Y and Z and you know new technology or a new platform or been approved or whatever and so. I thought, to be honest with you, Jared Roku was a big deal when we got that, you know, a year and a half ago. Yeah, that gets us into, you know, 30 million plus homes in North America, but the reality is, there's just so many other things and we continue to grow and ensure that with our viewers so. Hey, are you ready to see what Lily from Seattle Washington is going to ask us today. Yes, let's hear it Lily. Okay, I'm thinking of leaving the for profit business world for the nonprofit sector. Don't don't don't. Yeah, my family thinks I am nuts. What do you think is the nonprofit world a good place to work in. So, congratulations, this is a huge choice and I love the nonprofit sector. I have truly dedicated my career in the nonprofit sector. I have worked for profit I have worked in that sector as well. And in fact, as a consultant, I straddle both sectors. And it's really a lot of fun. So, you know, in my consulting world as as yours Julia, you know, we are for profit companies I have it I run an LLC, but I also run and help organizations in the 501 C3 and C6 world those are 501 that I'm really invested in. I love the nonprofit sector and and let me tell you the biggest difference that I have found between these two Lily. I live in a small town in South Carolina and I really have enjoyed the nonprofit sector for the culture of people. There seems to be this, this truly natural organic investment and concern in the people. Not only that they serve, but that works with the organizations that fit really well for me and what I was seeking I also went to a small public university because I really love, like just having that that culture of people, and being high on the list, if you will. Maybe your family is thinking you've, you know, nuts because of the pay that is a big conversation when it comes to the nonprofit sector is that there is a pay gap. And I would say that that is changing and you can definitely do some due diligence to, you know, wherever you seek for this employment in the nonprofit sector, seek wisely. I think that's that's important. The other thing I'd like to bring up Lily is the work life balance. There is a lot of continuous give and service for those of us in the nonprofit sector. And it's really, you know, it's up to yourself as well as your employer to help set some healthy boundaries so just be mindful of that. I think those are the top three things that I want to mention when it comes to the nonprofit sector is the culture, culture of people. The pay gap again be be mindful of that and just take a look at what they're paying are these competitive wages, and then also be mindful of that work life balance, you know what is expected of you and your time. You know, I love that you said that and I appreciate that you were so forthright about your experience and what that looks like. And, you know, I think there's a limited time on this planet. And I think what you do to create a better world is really the one of the most valuable things that you can do and I, I always think, you know, the life best lived is that life that has impact on others that they will never know. And that's one of the things about the nonprofit sector, you will do things you will make decisions that will impact people that you will never know. And that's great to me, I mean I think that's really amazing. So yeah, it will be hard, but I don't know I just think it's such an amazing life and I think that we are seeing more and more value when it comes to the employment and pay scale. But at the end of the day, in this country, it's an IRS designation. Yes, so you still are going to be doing the things that for profits do different language, different measurements. Right. But you are still really so tell your parents that. Let us know I was parents though I think it said family so I kind of took it on as as a spouse or a partner. But who knows, yes, who knows. Yeah, I mean I didn't pursue being an artist because my mom said I would be a starving artist so instead I became you know a social worker. Right. And you know what, Jared, it's really an interesting thing too because I think you at the end of the day, you need to look at your neck the next gen. And you need to say what I encourage my child to do this. Right, you know, and then I think to we need these people in our society. So I'm all about promoting young people to come in but yeah. So in the nonprofit sector, we have a I don't know the numbers but the nonprofit sector is a very robust workforce. 1111 million people every Monday morning to work for a nonprofit in this country. That's a hell of a lot of people that's a big workforce. That's a huge workforce. Yeah, so go for it Lily. Me too. Me too. Okay, let's get on to you know drum roll. Name with help business name with held. We're going to know why in just a minute and I'll be honest, I'm the one that put business name with help, because they did put their name but I was like, dude, I'm not going to put this out unto the nation's only daily show about the nonprofit sector with your business name with your business name. Okay, here it goes. We are an architectural design firm, and we have been asked by a nonprofit to work on a project. They are asking for a discount on our contract, and we are wondering what the average rate might be average rate of a discount. Yeah, I'm going to let you go first. This is really, I love this question, and I spent some time with this individual. First of all, we used to hear the word and it really came from law in Latin pro bono, which meant you did the work for free, you did it as a community investment. We even have legislative pro bono concepts where a certain business has to give away so many hours we see this in broadcasting and media where you literally would have to record back to the federal government or the licensing bodies. We donated so many hours of advertising your content, whatever. This concept is going away pro bono and we are doing something seeing something new called low bono. And the concept is this, that if you give away something for free. There's no sense of value. But if you tag a, and it can be modest, but if you can tag some sort of investment to that relationship, then everybody's going to perform at a higher level. Now this could be you contract with a security agency, or a janitorial company that comes into your office, a law firm and accounting office and architectural design firm. Generally, I'm going to flip this around and say, you could be looking at a low bono rate of 50% discount, 20% discount, maybe only a 10% discount, but you're going to see some sort of flexibility in there. The key is, it's defined, it has a contract, it has a start, and it has an end date. So it's not this languishing thing that ends up causing everybody hurt burn. So is there an average rate then. Well, it's really going to be for the most part, between 10 and 50%. That's really and that's a big gap. And if you look at what people are doing, a lot of times, if it's a product, that's going to have one discount and if it's a service, it's going to have another discount, right? Because for example, in a janitorial company contract, that janitorial company is having to pay their labor. It might not be as flexible, but let's go to a food service contract. Let's say maybe you have a cafeteria or you provide food service within your nonprofit. You know, maybe a food service vendor might be able to say, okay, you know, we'll, we'll navigate a lower rate because we can navigate that, or we can take that off on other other products. It really kind of depends if it's a good or a service, but 10% on the low side, 50%, business is booming for companies like this. And so now is not a time for them to walk away, or now is the time for them to walk away for bigger contracts. So devil's advocate. Baby hit me. So I think I'm not a big fan of pro bono. And here's, here's the reason why, right? So I shared from our previous conversation, a question with Lily. I am a for profit company serving nonprofit. So if I offered a nonprofit discount to every client I served, I would be discounting all of my services. So I think, you know, the big point of the question is this is an architecture firm. I do know of many industry norms. For instance, when you're planning your special event, you go to, you know, the venue and you say, do you have a nonprofit discount. That is a great opportunity to take advantage of those nonprofit discounts. You might get something similar to printing, you know, and the like, but I'm channeling Mallory Erickson our previous guest right that's talking about this is a bigger concept I believe when it comes to partnership. I would talk to this architecture firm or architecture firm I would talk to the nonprofit and find out what are your corporate partnerships, what do they look like, how could we create a bigger, more fruitful engagement to serve the community. Here's what we are looking for. Here's what you are looking for. How do we create this win, win opportunity. And you might actually, you know, from that discussion, build a deeper base for sustainable giving and partnership that could go both ways right so I also and here's the devil's even more devil's advocate when it comes to the pro bono. I think it continues to perpetuate the scarcity mindset for nonprofits. Absolutely. You know what I don't like, you know, like, I really want us to understand we are a tax exempt industry, but you can make a profit, right, you can absolutely make a profit in nonprofit so I don't want us to continue to perpetuate this. I mean, can you help us, please may have some more, you know, like we are doing amazing work, and we are hopefully also building revenue streams that are vibrant and really, you know, helping not only the, the, our individuals we serve for those individuals we employ. I don't mind that's that's, you know, a lot of different perspectives, but I wanted to bring all of that and put it on the table because I really do think this is a bigger conversation to talk about a partnership and to create a win win. I love what you said and I would say, taking that a step further, going back to your design firm architectural design firm. It's probably really important to sit down and say okay, how much are we going to a lot on our on our budget every year. All of our employees can get behind. And then we, we know this is for we're thinking, you know, we can only do one of these projects every three years or, you know, a certain amount of a year or whatever and they get behind that, and then make it something that is intentional and not just. Okay well they came in and they're nice people and so we'll help them out because that that's never a good way to enter into a relationship and cut the mustard. In that saying, but then cut the mustard. It's true. Well, I think it's a good discussion, low bono that is not sunny bono low bono. That's funny. Yeah, but it's true. I mean it's really something that you're, you're going to start to hear and so you could say you heard it here first on the nonprofit show. Okay, Steven from Huntsville, Alabama. Ooh, tough, tough week in that part of our nation. Oh yes. What is the average notice that C suite level staff should give when offering their resignation. I'm hearing about the great resignation, and I'm concerned that are not that our nonprofit should do some planning. Yeah. I always anticipate a month at the very minimum for a C suite is really that month transition when I serve as an interim leader, either CEO CDO development or operations. I know my clients Julia that whenever we start the, the perspective hiring process, we really need that to take about four to six months because depending on the individual that we bring on or asked to join. I understand that he she or they may also be in a similar position and required to give a month. Now, the other piece of this Steven is because we are in this great resignation. And not just because of that but oftentimes when there is this transition, not only is the individual want to give a month to their employer, they want to take some personal time. And also be prepared for it to take, you know, maybe even six weeks, if not eight weeks to have a little bit of a buffer and a little bit of a downtime. Wow, that is super genius advice because yeah, especially in our sector where you have people that oftentimes leave exhausted exhausted exhausted and that compassion fatigue. So it's just rolling into your organization, you know, the following Monday, not being at their best ready to take on something new. That's right. Okay, because then they also have not accrued their PTO and vacation to be able to, you know, when something comes up they're able to take that time off. So I'm seeing that trending more and more Julia, where it's the C suite executives are, you know, saying I need to give a month, and I need an additional, you know, buffer. So I would just be prepared for maybe, you know, for four to eight weeks, but really four weeks if they're leaving from one coming to the next. In terms of the great resignation with all of these people just leaving the workforce. Are you seeing that that hiring time with your interim work is now growing, or is it shortening. We're early in. I'm going to say it is growing. And, you know, some of this is it's growing. What I've seen is because individuals are being very mindful, even more mindful about where they go. As well as it is an employer employee, an employee market right now right where many of our very talented individuals can almost pick and choose where they go. So this whole negotiation that staffing boutique has helped to share with us so thank you Katie Warnick. It really is about having that ability to negotiate the best place in space for them. Okay, good. That's a really interesting observation. I know you're in the thick of this with your interim work so I appreciate you sharing that I really do that's. And you know what I love that that organization is asking the question. Absolutely. Yes, even I would definitely start planning for that. And some of how you can do that to help is to make sure you have updated standard operating procedures. That is something that that you will want the person who's leaving to make sure that they are as up to date, especially if you changed and pivoted, which we all did during this COVID pandemic. So you just want to make sure that they are leaving their SOPs where they currently are not perhaps where they were when they started the organization smart smart. Well let's go on to Lois and Marcus in Rochester, New York. And again, oh my gosh. Crazy flooding and that part of our nation. So, wow, I mean Rochester's more north but still. Okay, they write we're looking to start an endowment and are wondering if we should have a certain number of years and operation before we begin on the journey. Are you familiar with this or can you give us some guidance. You want to start. Well, I would say, definitely, you need to have some time in service, because this is a big, big navigation point. It's going to cost you some money. It's going to cost you some time and attention and management. And there are many, many people across the financial services and legal services sector that manage this. My biggest thing is you need to have a board that will support this and will be the first ones to fund the endowment. And it might be nominal. It might be significant. It might be in the state planning should be a little bit of everything. But this is not for the faint of heart. This is a big, big deal and I don't know what you think but in this might just be my age but my sense of it is that when you are an organization and you take on something like this. You need to have a lot of other things finished, because this needs to become a central theme, and not the only thing, but it needs to be something that you can champion. And that's one of the things I was going to suggest is, you know, so you are looking at starting an endowment, wondering if we should have a certain number of years in operation. Hopefully, you have at least three, perhaps, you know, more like five in, I would say, I would say that's kind of, you know, where you want to be. Otherwise, I would build up your annual campaign, make sure you have enough in reserve for your rainy day funds, you have, you know, six months in the bank. The other of like kind of bearer, you know, operating that burn rate so figure out what your burn rate is, but then also figuring out, you know, if this is where we are now, where is it we truly want to grow and how do we prepare financially for that, annually, prior to the endowment because the endowment you can take a percentage off in perpetuity to support your annual operating cost. But I would make sure that you have that groundwork laid first and foremost make sure you have those coffers those reserves of financials. And again, if you're looking to bring on any additional support, be it, you know, FTEs full time employees, even part time or contract help, right bringing in some consultants, I would make sure that that is financially covered and taking care of first, and then the endowment but I agree Julia, this is very much an undertaking and you want to make sure that the board is on board for this kind of work. I love, I love that you said that because when I first saw this question it made me think, and they didn't declare this but that they're a newer organization right same. Now, and so, I think you've got to be at minimum five to 10 years. That's how I read it to you. And it's great if you have, if you have an investor, if you have capital knocking on your door by all means that is phenomenal. But I don't, I wouldn't jump into an endowment right off, right off the start. Yeah, I agree with you, I agree with you. But wow, I think it's a great question and hopefully, you know, they're looking at something that's really really come in their way and you know with this huge transference of wealth, the largest transference of wealth in our country. Some organizations, financial organizations have estimated low 30 to 60 trillion, all the way up to $90 trillion moving into these next generations endowment and requests are going to be big deals. And so yeah, I think any organization ought to be looking at this, but it is extremely expensive and no pun intended taxing to do. You know, you have the best advice that you can get. Agreed, and also channeling Mallory Erickson from yesterday, you know, one of the things that she recommended we consider right now is gifts of stocks. And so this is something to consider with this transference of wealth. Maybe we don't have the liquid cash as, you know, as abundant as we have previously, but many individuals do have a very robust portfolio that might not be, you know, as transferable at the moment but you could think about that for your endowment. And I think that's that's worth mentioning again. Yeah, it's not just the velvet painting of Elvis anymore as I mean it's real estate, it's art collections, it's stocks and bonds. Yeah, and that's cryptocurrency like, believe it or not, and I know that we have, we have a show to keep crypto currency I forget the date of when that is but stay tuned we'll let you know. And so yeah a little bit of a little bit of all kinds of transference of wealth. Well, that's a whole nother discussion for gift policies because, as you know, that's a big, a big, big deal, I was meeting I had dinner with a client. Last night, and we were talking about an organization that turned away a million dollar gift, based on the business of where that money was that wealth was generated for this particular family. And I think it's a great field that it aligned with what their work was. And our discussion was, well, do you take the money and say we can do great things with it, or do you say, you know, no this doesn't fit with our values, it was a very interesting conversation. But anyway, hey, Jared ransom, a great week. Hello friend, and thank you to fundraising Academy. Absolutely. It's been a wonderful week and we are so extremely grateful that you have joined us for our episodes. Julia Patrick CEO of the American nonprofit Academy. I'm Jared ransom, also known as your nonprofit nerd. I did a workshop earlier this week for the Community Foundation of Southern Arizona and it was virtual and we had attendees across the nation in fact because it was open to anyone, and it was about self care how to avoid burnout. So I am going to practice what I preach during this week and I hope that you and the rest of all of you watching will also take some downtime of this weekend to recharge it is Labor Day holiday weekend. So there's a lot to be thankful and grateful for. But yes, I hope that we can all start back on Tuesday, fresh. It's amazing to think that we don't have a show on Monday because it is Labor Day. And I'm always freaked out because it's like the start of the last big push for the year. That's right. I told you now that all things are pumpkin spice related it is time to hit the pavement. It is man I mean just our relationships with our donors and our funders and all the year and things all the things that we've been going through in this last now almost two years it's really really amazing part and parcel of that are our our presenting sponsors without you we would not be here as I always like to say, really carrying the heavy load so that Jared and I can interview these amazing human beings, all over the world. We get to chat on Fridays. Yes, Friday is fun these questions that come in. There's multiple ways you can send us your questions. And we're just so grateful again to continue these conversations as we all continue to navigate today. Absolutely. Well, as we like to end every episode, especially during these last couple weeks have been really tough on our country and, and the world, we want to remind everyone to stay well. So you can do well. We'll see you back here on Tuesday. Thanks, everyone.