 Hello, good morning, good afternoon, whatever time it is that you're joining us, we are glad you're here. Julia Patrick is in the hot seat today, but she promised it's more of a conversation. So we're really excited for you to be here for another episode of the nonprofit show. Again today's topic, it's all about your board and how you can inspire them as you move forward. So hello again to you Julia Patrick, Julia serves as the CEO of the American nonprofit Academy. I'm Jared Ransom, your nonprofit nerd, CEO of the Raven Group, and we are so very honored to march forward into a brand new year with these presenting sponsors by our side. So thank you so very much to Bloomerang, American nonprofit Academy, fundraising Academy at National University, Bee Generous, your part-time controller, staffing boutique, nonprofit thought leader and the nonprofit nerd. What's really cool about these sponsors, not only are they here for you and your mission, they're here for you in these episodes. So you will see a representative of each of these companies every single month on the nonprofit show. And we're so grateful to have them plug in and share their perspective and insight as we move forward. If you missed any episodes or you want to go back and binge listen or binge watch, you can find us on Roku, YouTube, Vimeo, Amazon Fire TV, as well as Q us up wherever you stream your podcast, we're there for you. So Julia, in the hot seat, my friend, CEO of the American nonprofit Academy thrilled to be doing the show with you again another year, March will mark our fourth year. And really excited to have today's conversation. You know, it's really fun because we get so many questions, we get so many comments. I know that when I'm out in public and when you're out in public, people stop you and ask you questions and say, can you, you know, talk about this or this might be a really good show topic. I get pitched all the time. I know you do as well. And so often we get people inside nonprofits that kind of complain and say, I'm not getting enough out of my board and I need to inspire them and I'm losing them. What can we do? So starting a new year, what can we do? We came up with some resolutions that we think are going to work. One of the very first ones is that we think not enough board members truly understand mission vision and values. What is it that you're doing for your community? What is it that you're trying to solve? And I know that sounds pretty basic, but Jared, would you agree with that? I do. And what's interesting, I was looking at a website a couple of days ago. And I could not find their vision. I could not find their vision. And so when you talk about the board needs to know it, you know, if a general audience, general public can't locate it on their website, that's probably going to be an issue. And I say for every single board agenda, you put it in words written on the document itself and you ask someone to read it aloud. And so you're really just, you know, talking to this day in, day out of these board meetings. Absolutely. And I love your idea of having somebody read that. And I think that's really kind of where we're going with this. And we talked about empowering your board members with that elevator speech. And that needs to be used in your emails, in your speech, just those snippets of information that becomes so natural. Because your board members are your champions and they're not there. And so they've got to be able to just roll this off, you know, their tongue when they're talking to a coworker, they're talking to the person that does their dry cleaning, whatever the heck, everything in between being able to repeat that. And so it's not just a one and done thing. It becomes part of the culture, don't you think? It does. And the other thing is they can change, right? So mission statements can evolve. The vision statement, they can evolve as well as the values. I just helped an organization completely rewrite all three, their mission, their vision and their values. So even what the board members might have known and been able to say in a clear, concise manner, guess what? They have to relearn it for the new language, the new statements that they are. I love that you said that because it's really, really important. And especially if you find that, I mean, what organization on this planet, given COVID and all of the things, and you and I have really started to use that word in plural, you know, pandemics. Yeah, plural. Because there's been social, you know, economic, I mean, there have been a lot of things that have been going on. And so yeah, there are a lot of organizations that have picked up new banners and they're carrying them down the field. Yeah, absolutely. You know, and some that are saying, hey, are we really doing what we say we're doing in our mission or has that changed, you know? And so I think you should absolutely visit this every single year. I don't think you should change it every single year, but it should absolutely be visited and just confirm that that is still what you're doing. Because again, and you know this, Julia, for board members, that not only is it your fiduciary fancy word for financial, it is your right, your governing right and responsibility, every single opportunity that comes to the organization. You have to ask, does this fit our mission? Yes, absolutely. And I think this is a time when more than ever we need to be aware of this. The next thing that I love, and you know, I love this word and it gets everybody's panties into twist when I say this, but dog fooding. We need to be doing a better job of dog fooding in our sector. What does that mean? Yeah, tell us what that is, because I know people are like dog fooding. What? That means are you willing to use your own programming? So my perfect, my favorite example is if you run a shelter, are you willing to spend a night in that shelter and see what it's like to be a client? A food bank, right? Are you willing to walk through the line in the food bank and feel what it's like from the shame to the anxiety to the privacy to the wondering if you can use this food, the language, I could go on and on. But dog fooding is something that they always say, would you eat your own dog food? And there are a lot of board members that can't do it, right? Have never tried it, have never thought of it. And what happens when you dog food, you generally become much more empathetic to the client experience. You become a champion to what's going on when you see the staff in action. And it's easier for you to communicate as a champion to the community about what's going on. And if it doesn't, then guess what? It gives you a roadmap to discuss the things that need to change. Yeah, I think this is great. And then I also just want to put a plug that you did an entire episode on dog fooding last year. I mean, my years are kind of running together. But there is an entire episode about dog fooding that talks the intricacies of this. I do feel and I see this all too often, Julia, with my clients, no matter where they're located all across the nation, is that there really is a separation of the board members and those mission moments. And so having that mission moment, I think every year is a great opportunity to go back and revisit the programs, do a tour with the board, invite them, you know, to whatever your mission is, whatever programming you can implement them, put them in that to experience it. That's the only way they can go out and advocate for what they do. Exactly. You know, in our country, one of the most successful dog fooding concepts, or I should say actions, was with the police departments across America. In the 1970s, there was a lot of civil unrest and a lot of anger against the police and police actions. And so what police agencies did throughout the country is they started a thing called ride-alongs and they would invite decision makers, leaders within the community, everything from the high school principal to the Lutheran minister to the clothing store owner and get them in a car to drive around during a patrol and they would see the nitty gritty. It wasn't like, oh, and here's, you know, the beautiful park. I mean, it was like, this is what our officers have to do. And these community leaders came back, told their circles, holy cow, you can't believe how hard their job is. Well, what do you think happened? All of a sudden, more funding, more empathy, more support, our police kind of things. And that was really an American movement that was explicitly designed to change the minds and the hearts of an entire nation. And it worked, you know. So this is something that you can do and it can really grow into helping you achieve a movement within your community, region or even your nation. So dog fooding, it's where it's at, sister. I love it. Next, we're going to see like a purina or back here that that will be good. Well, what about board mentoring and training? So as we move into the new year, perhaps term limits, you know, are being considered, you're voting on your new executive team, you know, of the board, you're voting on new board members. So where are you seeing this as some best practice that we can consider, Julia, when it comes to the board mentoring and board training throughout the year? So the reason why this is cropping up for me more and more, it kind of was like in a lull, but now we're really working hard. We have two big factors or trends that are impacting our boards. We have people aging out and we have people understanding that we need more diversity. Well, guess what? We have now across our across our nation, 1.8 million nonprofits. We have more new board members than we've ever had, right? It used to be we would bring people onto our boards and they already were trained up because they're serving on other boards and we didn't have to hold them by the hand. I mean, they knew how to read an agenda. They knew how to vote. They knew how to do all of these different governance issues. Well, now we don't have that. That doesn't mean we don't have great talent. We just need to help them move along. And, Jared, you know, I say this all the time. I truly believe and maybe it's a Pollyanna moment. I truly believe that board members come onto a board wanting to do their best for their community and for the issue. But sometimes they don't know what that is and they don't know how to be successful. And generally our boards are comprised of people who are successful in other parts of their life, right? And what happens when they don't feel successful? They get intimidated and they easily disengage. Yeah. And then that's when we get that loop of frustration. And while we're talking about this, we lose engagement and then we have other problems. So I have to be honest, I thought you were going to say a board liaison can help in this. And I'm curious where that role of the liaison might play with the mentoring and training. You know, that's a really good comment. And, you know, I'm all like, whoop, whoop, with my board liaison. I love them. Yes. I love them. It's like such a huge thing for me. But, you know, this might be somebody that helps assign or tracks or make sure that, you know, the mentoring is going on. It's one thing to say, oh, yeah, I'll mentor you. Yeah. Oh, yeah, I have a board mentor. But it's another thing to make sure it gets calendarized and it actually is in place. So that board liaison through the board portal, hopefully you're all using a board portal, would be that person that says, yeah, you know, Betty Lou, did you meet with Mary Sue, you know, that type of a thing so that we make sure it's getting done and it can be a coffee. It can be, you know, something innocuous. It can be I was invited recently to go on a walk. We have a very massive canal system in our city that runs through our city and somebody that I'm working with said, can we go on a walk on the canal and do do this? You know, while you know what I'm saying? So it can be done in a great way. Yeah. Yeah. No, I like that a lot. And I think that, you know, I see the mentorship program established and then it kind of like Peters out. So how do we keep this going? Because, again, with bylaws and term limits, you know, you might have some board members that have been very engaged, very experienced. But as you mentioned earlier, we're bringing in a lot of newer board members, a lot of people that haven't been civically engaged at that leadership role and around the table. So how do we keep this going for the year? You know, I think we schedule it. And again, to your point, you know, using that board liaison to say, OK, board liaison, you're going to check in. You're going to we're going to match these people up. It's not enough to just say we're going to mentor somebody. We got to late, you know, define it, match these people up. And by the way, mentoring doesn't always have to be one on one. It could be a group of three. It could be a group of four. It could, you know, don't make it so strenuous that it becomes a task that's overwhelming. If you can get a group together that's small, fine. That's that's fine. But yeah, make sure it's tracked, you know. And again, through that board portal, get that board liaison to track it and make sure it's part of your policies that you're going to perform on this and that you're going to do it. You know, I'm a little bit more strict on these things. Well, you should be a liaison. I see your future as a board liaison. But I have to say with the amount of board retreats, strategic planning conversations that I facilitated, Julia, the number one thing. OK, maybe not the number one thing, but it's definitely in the top three is the board chair as well as the executive director or CEO kind of in changeable term there. One of their top goals is for the board members to get to know each other because I hear often that they really don't know each other. They haven't built this, you know, collaboration because they don't get together outside of their hour meeting once per month or hour and a half every other month. So I see this mentorship opportunity as a way to build teamwork and to build onto that frame of collaboration and knowing one another. I agree with you. And, you know, you can tell that when you sometimes you get like a really cohesive group, I mean, I've been on boards where they're really social and they're so social, they want to chat and talk and network during the meeting and not do business, right? That drives me crazy. And that big, oh, yeah. And as a board chair, you're like, you know, hello, come back center. I mean, it's really, really uncomfortable. And so you're right. I think, Jared, to have these opportunities, you know, so many boards will meet in the evening after work and maybe they start at five with like a pizza dinner or, you know, sandwiches delivered or whatever. And that's kind of the social time. And then that meeting starts at six and hopefully everybody's networked and gotten together, you know, what they needed to do because you were right. A cohesive group is incredibly, incredibly important. So let's get on to the thing that we kind of touched base on. And that's clear expectations. What does that mean to you, Jared? Well, you know, I see this amiss all the time is somehow we've recruited a board member, maybe because they simply have a pulse and they're breathing. They can fog a mirror, they can fog a mirror. Sometimes we don't let them know that we do have a give or get policy, you know, or that they have to sign a conflict of interest or that we even are going to ask some, you know, even demographic information, because in that lens of diversity, equity and inclusion, it's really becoming in the forefront of identifying, you know, all board members, all leadership. So having these clear expectations, I see is a huge opportunity for all of us. And I think we just have to get very clear on that every single year, you know. And we talked about this before, Julia, using your December board meeting to get these documents signed. So you start the new year with all of your check boxes done. You have these policy statements, you are clear and you've, you know, shared the insight of that give or get, because maybe that's changed. Maybe that that amount has changed participation as well as governance and governance is a big one, Julia. It's huge. And I agree with you that we need to back up. And December is a wonky month anyway. I mean, a lot of times, you know, the a lot of boards will do like, oh, that's our annual dinner or, you know, we meet at someone's home or, you know, it's a review. We talk about all the things that we did, you know, that sort of thing. But I think this is a brilliant time to get this done so that you move forward and you start off. It seems to me, Jared, that when you do these, you reengage on the expectations in November, December, then you've just given yourself an extra month, right? That January meeting is good to go. But this is what my challenge is. I think these things need to be written down and understood when a board member is being vetted or looked into for coming onto a board. It is too late to have these discussions once you've invited them in. And I've got to be honest with you, I have sat on boards, especially early in my career, where I wasn't educated enough to ask the right questions. Right. And then I was voted in, I was a fiduciary, and then I learned things that curled my hair and I have pretty curly hair. Yeah, you know, I've had a similar experience. I was recruited to be on a board and I asked for three documents. I said, I would love to see your current strategic plan. I would love to see your D&O certificate. And I would also love to see your document of expectations. And they literally told me that's too much for us to produce. We can't do it. So I just said thanks, but this is in the board for me. Yeah. And you know, that is such a red flag. I mean, even if they said we don't have those, but Jared, this is why we want you on the board, you need to create them. Wouldn't that change? You would have been like, okay, I know, I know what the expectation is, right? Right, right. And the reason I asked for those, for those of you that are like, well, why are these the three one D&O directors and officers insurance? You want to make sure that as a board, you are covered with insurance separate, a separate policy for the organization. But for you to serve as that governing, the other one is the street strategic plan, because I wanted to know if my skill set, my connections, my talents would be of use to them in their current goals, right? Like as they're what they're looking to achieve. And then the other one was that clear expectation document, you know, the attendance, when do they meet? What is the financial contribution? Is there a committee commitment on top of being on the board? So those are the top three that I always coach and advise anyone looking to be of service to a board to ask for those three documents. Absolutely. And and you know, the thing of it is, is that they shouldn't want to do more. I'm not, I really mean it. I really mean it after this episode. I'll probably get some invitations, but you know, they'll be, they would, they should have been like, holy moly, this gal knows what we should be doing. Well, it's a big liability, right? So serving on a board, first of all, thank you to all of you that do. It is a huge honor. It's a huge privilege, but it's a huge responsibility. And it's not one that any of us should take lightly. No, no, absolutely. And so part and parcel to that, I think the last big piece of engaging a board member, and it's something we don't do often enough. And that is gratitude, reinforcing that. And my favorite thing of that is boy, the BOI, because of you, you know, because of you, board member, we served so many kids in foster care. Because of you, we put on this many performances because of you. We made our streets safer. I mean, you get going here, right? Demonstrating gratitude in a way that's not like, oh, you're so privileged and you're such a rock star. And this is so glamorous. No, it's the hard facts of what the impact has been, how you've moved the needle. And that is one of the secret sauce pieces to this whole thing. Because that engages people. I have a question. Um, I was working with a client yesterday. We're mapping out their year and we're talking about volunteer engagement and recognition. Now, board members are volunteers. Yes, how do you, Julia, like, how have you seen the recognition of board members been done correctly? Cause April, I think, and there's even a date, you know, in April that is like the volunteer appreciation day of the year. How do we engage our board members there? I'm curious what you've seen. So, you know, I've seen everything from, you know, um, uh, naming like a small award, um, based on maybe the founder or somebody that says, you know, that's like board member of the year for some people, that's really important. And that gets them to, you know, engage more and be active. For me, that's not as important, but I do know when I've been on boards and that's been done, that's really important. I think one of the better strategies is, is bringing it back and making it more simplistic. And this is really works well if you have a mark on marketing communications team. And that is sending press releases to your, your media that says, you know, Sammy Smith just joined our board. And Sammy Smith is the executive director of recruitment for XYZ plumbing company, whatever. Do you know what I'm saying? Right. And help reinforce that this person is a champion of your, of your organization. And that is demonstrating gratitude. Everything from writing, writing handwritten notes for their birthdays, for their contributions, just as we used to say, add a boy, add a girls. You know, you did a great job. You inspired me. A thank you. I think that goes a long way. I don't think most board members need more chachkas on their, on their, their shelves. Agreed. I just don't think that. But you know, maybe something that's special. Hey, would you like to go to this event with me? Would you like to go have lunch? Would you like to meet with such and such person as we talk about this? Those are things that can really make a difference. Because remember, most of these people that are going to be serving on your boards, they're going to be in the for-profit business sector. And they need things that help them build business. Right. Well, the other thing I think as well, Julia, and those were all great tips. So thank you for sharing is that I see often a board member serving on multiple boards. So when it comes to this attitude of gratitude, which I'm going to use that, right? Gratitude and force because of you, you know, this board member likely is serving on other boards. And so you really, I'm thinking like you really want to stand out and show your appreciation because time, you know, time is not infinite. We all have a certain amount of time in our day and certain amount of time in our weeks and what we can commit to. So I'm just bringing that up because I think, you know, really this gratitude lens is so very important, important. We talk about retaining our staff. I think we also need to talk about retaining our board. You know, I love that you said that because we don't hear that enough ever. I don't think I know. I love that you said that, Jared. I think that's absolutely exciting. And to piggyback on what you just said, you know, doing that stay interview with the board, you know, you did that one-on-one and you could roll that into the mentoring or whatever. But especially if you're a board that has an executive committee or a board chair and they're, you know, new or different, that could be a good thing to find out. Like why is this engagement, why is it working or why is it not working, right? Yeah, I think so. So many good tips. I mean, we definitely want you all to inspire your board this year and, you know, help them help you because we have a lot to do 2023. I mean, we are excited. Julia Patrick, myself is so excited to be here with you. We are committed day in and day out to continue these shows here at the nonprofit show every single weekday except for holidays. But we're excited to continue these episodes. Again, we want to, you know, thank Julia for being here and being in the hot seat for today's conversation. Really was a conversation as we bounce things around. Again, honored, so honored to have these amazing partners with us by our side to help us move and navigate the sector and everything that we're all facing. So huge shout out to our friends at Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, your part-time controller, be generous, fundraising academy at National University, staffing boutique, nonprofit thought leader and the nonprofit nerd. A representative from every single one of these companies will also be on this year. So they're committed to you as well and to your mission. Now's a good time to check them out. So if you haven't looked up their websites or you haven't followed them on social, please do that. Yeah, absolutely. There's so much going on, Jared. I agree with you. I think there's a lot of opportunity this year and things are still changing. They're still dynamic. But this is the time for opportunity. It is still, you know, a little chaotic. That is when opportunity presents itself. You just have to be open to embrace it and and brave enough and have the courage to do so. And so, yeah, this has been a great conversation. Jared, thank you so much. Thank you. It's been an honor. Hey, it's been a lot of fun. You know, as we end every episode, we want to remind ourselves or viewers or sponsors or listeners or watchers to stay well so you can do that. We'll see you back here tomorrow. Thank you, Jared.