 Welcome everybody. If you want to take your seats, we'll jump right in here. On behalf of the former, I want to thank everybody for coming out this early evening to talk about a critically important issue, how we propel the Paris Agreement and enable it to reach the kind of scale that we know is required in order to keep global average temperature at a level we know is required. Whenever I think about the climate issue that we face today, I'm reminded of an image that a friend of mine, a British environmentalist, Adam Swaden, introduced me to. He described the climate issue today as a black elephant. And a black elephant is a cross between a black swan and the elephant in the room. A black swan, you know, is a low probability, hugely impactful event, catastrophic. And the elephant in the room is the problem that's sitting there right in front of you. You know it's there. And Adam calls the climate issue a black elephant. It's right in the middle of the room. We can all see it. We all know the problem. You can't ignore it. And at the same time, it has vast black swan properties. That is, if it reaches the wrong critical tipping point, it will have vast uncontrollable consequences. And so that's really the thing we're here to try to talk about to avoid. We've got a terrific panel to do that. We've got the Prime Minister of Norway. We've got the Prime Minister of Bangladesh. We have former Vice President and global leader on this issue. We have the President of Kafka, a critically important Chinese food supply chain company and a representative of HSBC. So we're going to be able to look at this from the point of view of governance, the marketplace, and actual players in the world's second largest economy right now. I've asked everyone if they would just begin with a three-minute intervention on where they see the issue right now from their perspective and then they're going to have to submit to my torturous questioning. So we're going to be, I'm going to ask the Prime Minister Hassana from Bangladesh if you would begin, Prime Minister. Thank you very much. Well, Bangladesh is a tale of climate ground zero. It is about our existence. While Bangladesh contributes least to global greenhouse gas emissions, we pay dearly. Millions are forced to move silently. Bangladesh ratified the Paris Agreement with the hope that global community will share responsibility for shared prosperity. Paris Agreement must deliver towards the low-income climate-vulnerable countries. In 2009, out of our own resources, we established a $400 million climate change trust fund. In 2012, we committed that Bangladesh would not exceed the average per capita emission of the developing world. We are shifting to a low-carbon development path. We are transforming our manufacturing grid. We are focusing on renewable energy and installed around 4.5 million solar home systems in Bangladesh. Over 15 million people now access electricity from these solar units. By 2018, Bangladesh will emerge as the largest solar nation globally. We are trying to make our agriculture climate resilient. For example, we developed stress-tolerant varieties of crops and innovations, helping water use in rice production, introducing solar-powered irrigation pumps. As we move to implement the Paris Agreement, there are areas global community, including business, can step in first. Lives and livelihoods of our farmers, fishers, artisans, women are increasingly at risk. They need urgent support. We need greater focus on agriculture and food security. Make smart agriculture beneficial for small and marginal farmers. Give them knowledge on sustainable cropping and farm management across entire value chain. Develop quality resilient water-intensive seeds adaptive to local conditions for keek, cereal and non-serials. Get sustainable agri-inputs or solutions accessible to small and marginal farmers in the low-income countries. Second, global business and research hold solutions that can save lives, crops, agri-resources. We need innovative, non-for-profit models or partnerships to roll the solutions to meet our needs. Third, access to renewable and clean energy, energy-efficient technologies, devices, implement are critical for our farming. Manufacturing urban services, we need support and innovate to go beyond the existing global energy market modalities. Fourth, we are moving towards green growth path. But we need assured climate finance. As the world plays, half of the amount has to go to climate vulnerable countries. Fifth, transfer, adaptive development, sharing of technology are so critical. The world can no longer sit pretty on the excuse of intellectual protection. And now UN Technology Bank for LDCs is there for all to help the LDCs on technology. What we ask is access to life-saving technologies in agriculture, health, etc. That can bring in huge difference. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Prime Minister. Prime Minister Solberg. Thank you. We have all greeted ourselves on that the Paris Agreement was historic. We have also greeted ourselves on the rapid entry into force. That was without precedence. But I think it's time to also say that after greeting ourselves, we have to be honest and say that we are far from delivering sufficient emission cuts all over the world and that the emission gaps remains a tremendous challenge that we have to work on. And of course, the responsibility with the way that the Paris Agreement is built up, it lies with each country. That means that we all have to fulfill our commitments to the Paris Agreement. But I also believe that we are in a good position of making transformative decisions. We see rapid technological developments. The prices of renewable alternatives have fallen drastically to a bit of a challenge for an out-producing country like Norway. But we see that the alternatives are growing in speed. And I think we can see the promise and the potential of a low-emission society in the future. But the window for making the right choices is small. We have to do it fast. The major investment we have to make in a few decades, and especially what decisions we are making on infrastructure, will determine our ability to reach that common objectives on climate that we have reached. I think there is three key priorities for the international community that I would like to highlight to accelerate that type of progress that we see on country level. First, I think we all need to put the price on carbon. And we need to face our subsidies for fossil fuels. The second, we need to strengthen the type of investment policy frameworks and investment capacity in the new types of technology. And we have to make sure that we are investing in what could stop the change. And I think the biggest challenge we have that can stop the change towards low emission is the losing of jobs, the lack of economic development for people around the world, which is going, I think, the concept of the sustainable development goals is to see the climate issue together with the social issues and we have to make sure that we have policy frameworks and investment capacity and that we also have using our public money in smart way to mobilize climate friendly private investments in the future. So I appreciate that Germany during its G20 presidency have put discussion on viable energy and climate strategies for the future on the table, trying to make even more focus on how we can invest in this for the future. The third point I have is that we need to reduce deforestation globally, which is an issue the Norwegian politicians have talked about and worked on for a long time. It's important not just for climate. It's also important because of the extraordinary biodiversity of the forest and a livelihood of millions of people, but it is not possible to have lower emission economists and reach the climate goals if we are following up on the same level of deforestation as we see today. And we need to engage business and other stakeholders to global action to change in the future. As one contribution to this agenda, Norway will, provided that other partners from public and private sector contribute, we will establish a fund that may catalyze billions of dollars of investment into innovative ways of increasing agricultural production to meet the global needs and to protecting and restoring forest at unprecedented scales. We think we need a new type of initiative on this and that's what we are trying to build now and I hope we will get partners into that because people who live around the large rainforests of the world, they need to have an outcome, they need to have agricultural production, they need to have a way of doing this and we will buy their products and be responsible consumers only if they are doing it in a responsible way. So we need to have some type of stronger action to make sure that the production lines are in fact not ruining forests of the world. Thank you. Thank you. Vice President Gore. Well, first of all, Tom, I would like to thank you for your work on this issue. The opinion columns you've written and the original reporting you've done really deserve a special commendation in my opinion. There are really only three questions remaining about the climate crisis. Must we change? Looks like it might be hard. Can we change? If we have to change but we can't, don't want to hear about it anymore, just makes me nervous. The third question is will we change? On the first question, must we change? Most people in the world are now convinced but we are reminded by some recent elections and appointments that not everybody is there. Today, NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration in the U.S. jointly officially announced that 2016 was the hottest year in recorded history. This is the third year in a row that that record has been broken. Every night on the television news now is like a nature hike through the Book of Revelation. People are connecting the dots and coming to the realization that the answer to that first question is yes. Second question, can we change? As Prime Minister Solberg said, the cost of renewable energy is coming down dramatically, almost as dramatically as computer chips did. It's similar to mobile phones. And like mobile phones, they're spreading rapidly, particularly in areas of the world where there's not an existing landline grid. The latest contracts for solar electricity are down to 2.45 cents per kilowatt hour, half the cost of electricity from a coal burning plant. We need to stop building new coal burning plants, especially if I may say with all respect in endangered areas. Now, the third question, will we change? The Paris Agreement is the most inspiring and greatest accomplishment since all the negotiating process began. And it was designed not only to secure agreement among nations of the world, but also consciously to send a signal to businesses, investors, civil society. That signal was sent. It has been received. There has been a dramatic change. We should concentrate on two of the mandatory provisions in the Paris Agreement. Not all of it's voluntary. Mandatory information transparency so that NGOs and civil society can get actively involved in following the progress of each nation. Secondly, there is a five-year review process that's mandatory where each nation reviews what it's done and looks at the continuing opportunities with cheaper renewable electricity, energy storage, efficiency and sustainable agriculture and forestry and upgrade their commitments. Finally, I have a lot to say, but I will just summarize with one final point. The mission of the World Economic Forum includes a close examination of the state of the world economy. And there's been much discussion here this week about the slow growth stagnation, deep worry about where the economy is going. Monetary policy has been essentially used up. If we have a business cycle recession, we can't lower interest rates to three, four points. What's left? What if we had a global project that was jobs intensive and that operated in every nation simultaneously, provided more liquidity to every community and lifted the vitality and dynamism of the global economy? Well, it turns out we have exactly such a global project if there is the vision and determination to seize it. We can retrofit every building in communities around this world. And if it's launched simultaneously, then the gestalt lifts the global economy. We need to build the infrastructure for renewable energy. We need to retrofit more efficient industrial and commercial facilities. And we know from the experience of business leaders who started this that they make more money and their brands are enhanced and they do better. So some people question whether we can do it, whether we will do it, but the will to act is itself a renewable resource. Fantastic. Thank you. Patrick, how does this all look from China and the point of view of someone involved in the agriculture supply chain? Thank you. Thank you, Tom. From a perspective of the agricultural sector, I think it is the issue of climate change is as simple to express as it is complex to achieve. It is literally our business as a coffeco, as a food and agri business to sustain the people, to sustain the people in a way that sustains the planet. At coffeco, we speak of meeting tomorrow's demand. I believe that agricultural products that are needed for today's consumption will be available for every person on this planet. So we say if we want to sustain the people, we have to sustain the world. With the Paris climate agreement, I think it is a priority for the government and the business world to reshape its policymaking and business vision based on the low carbon model and then to develop an excuse roadmap to shift toward that low carbon future. I think it is time for the private sector to take its responsibility and I think it is a immense opportunity for the private sector, especially the sectors that contribute most to the climate change including energy, transportation and agriculture, etc. If I can say from the perspective of China, Chairman Xi raised the green growth concept stating that clean and beautiful environment means great wealth for China. So at coffeco, we see that green fully integrated value chain is our way of producing low carbon and high quality products. In order for that to happen, I think definitely a favorable and predictable policy and market environment is pivotal to motivate large-scale financing and innovation by private sector. So with regards to the challenge of our industry, I would say that the agriculture industry face very unique challenge to produce more food while reducing greenhouse gas emissions by food production. So the situation is urgent as climate change already affected food and agricultural and food security. So without immediate action, we could put millions of people at hunger and poverty. Deep transformation in agricultural and food systems from pre-production to consumption are needed to maximize co-benefits of climate change adaptation and mitigation efforts. And this much is clear, the cause of inaction are much greater than the cause of innovation which enables the farmers to respond effectively to climate change. Addressing emissions from land use change on a de-frustration driven by agricultural expansion is essential. So choice is facing food and agribusiness is clear. Therefore, seize opportunities of carbon constrained world and lead the way in shaping our transition to a sustainable economy or continue our business as usual and face big serious risks from regulation, shifts in technology, changing consumer expectations and insecurity of supply. Thank you very much, Patrick. Stuart, from the point of view of the banking world. Sure, thanks, Tom. So the reason HSBC has been engaged for quite some time in this is really the following. So we operate a banking operation in countries that are massively impacted. So the vulnerable 20, India, China, Malaysia, Indonesia where both de-frustration issues around coal to create electricity, etc. And at the same time, as Vice President Gore has said, we actually think this is one of the biggest catalysts for economic growth and job creation. So the estimates are it takes 90 trillion US dollars to basically execute what's been agreed in Paris in terms of replacing old infrastructure, building infrastructure to greater renewable standards and actually developing the whole renewables industry. So that actually requires the financial markets to basically mobilise quite quickly and to be honest, that's been quite slow to do so and I think that's because the time horizons are seen beyond a credit cycle, a market risk cycle, frankly a business cycle. So it's the next generation's problem. So we have to create some incentives to get this kind of going at a much faster pace. Markets are pretty good at pricing risk, but they actually struggle with pricing uncertainty and actually climate change for most companies is still perceived as uncertainty rather than a risk that can be priced. So clearing that uncertainty means companies and asset managers have got to basically disclose more about their exposures to high carbon markets, supply chains and regional climate regulations and that will enable that uncertainty to be translated into an effective assessment of risk. We did a survey back in December to try and basically see why there were more investors interested in investing in green bonds and 50% of the investors simply say there's just inadequate information in terms of the disclosure of companies about what they're actually doing about this. So we hugely support the work of the Financial Stability Board Task Force. So this is the project that Michael Bloomberg and Mark Carney sponsored to get further disclosure from companies. I took earlier in one of the closed sessions about the need, I think for the central banks to require this actually to be compulsory and actually the way to do it is to require the banks and the insurance companies to actually get this information on their clients because as a regulated industry we can be required to do so. The corporate sector is not necessarily regulated in the same linear way. The other thing we have to do is get a price on carbon. Whether we get a price on carbon without a price on carbon we are not basically going to move this thing forward because carbon pricing and disclosure are essentially two sides of the same coin which effectively is to get a price that causes the substitution of alternatives. It's absolutely essential that we actually do get to this. We've spent a lot of time dancing around the issue of carbon pricing and I think we do need to get to a carbon price and we need to get to a level of disclosure where frankly the industry, financing industry, whether it's the banking industry, the insurance industry or frankly the capital markets actually require this amount of data. Without a price you'll never get scale and without a scale you'll never have a solution. The green bond market we did 75 as collectively all the banks we underwrote 75 billion US dollars of green bonds last year which was up from 48 billion in 2015. So we've got 75 billion with 90 trillion to raise. There's a bit of a gap. Yes, to say the least. Prime Minister Arsena, let me ask you. Downstairs they have a simulation wall and one of the simulations that they have computer modeling is actually the impact on Bangladesh of a kind of business as usual trajectory for carbon emissions and I know it won't surprise you but it's quite shocking to see that your entire country is underwater by, you know, I remember it's 2050 or 2040 but not exactly a long time to change course. So how do you wrestle with this challenge? You've got a vast population that needs energy. Coal is right there for you to use. The simulation says though that if we don't change course your country could be underwater. How do you personally wrestle and balance those issues? Well, first thing we have to develop our country that is very, very important. But because of the climate change or global warming what we suspect that if the sea rise then we have to... Get a little closer to the mic. Well, we have to remove our people from those areas. I mean this vulnerable area, the lower portion of our country but what we feel that the promises made in the Paris Agreement or since, you know, the COP 15 we receive only many promises but in practical we didn't receive much but after the Paris Agreement definitely we become a little bit, you know, hopeful that something will happen or definitely... Well, the developed country already they developed themselves. It is their responsibility to look into the LDCs or vulnerable countries. Like it is not only Bangladesh also the small island country and other country. So, well, we have taken our steps with our humble way with a very minimum but I feel that it is the main responsibility lies with the developed country but in our own way we have taken many steps. I mentioned earlier that with our own money we have established a trust fund and how to help our people and also as because, you know, we have 160 million people but our land boundary is very small. We have to feed our people. So we have started, you know, research how to produce more food for and to ensure food security but definitely I feel that the world community they should come forward and the private sector, business community like banking sector or other financial institutions they have their responsibility so they should take initiative how to assist those vulnerable people. That is very, very important. Yes, we are taking our steps to save our people no doubt about it but we are not the emitters but we are going to be more affected so it is not only ours I think now it becomes the global responsibility. I'm going to ask Vice President Gore, Al, you've got a new version of an inconvenient truth coming out that we're all excited to see and I know it deals with some of the most exciting solution sets coming down the pipe. If the Prime Minister invited you to give some advice because you know the technologies that are coming that can help her with her dilemma of 180 million people there's cheap coal right there got to feed the country she didn't cause the climate change the world is telling her to change what are some of the things coming down the pipe that might help a country like Bangladesh escape this wrenching dilemma? Well as you said earlier it is a great opportunity as well as a challenge and the Prime Minister hasn't asked me for advice but you've asked me to give it to her Up until last year Bangladesh was the fastest deploying nation in all the world for solar panels two per minute, two systems per minute night and day, 24 hours a day on average that has now slowed down there is a plan to build a new dirty coal plant in the Sunderbands the largest mangrove forest in the world the last remaining tiger preserve thousands of people are demonstrating against it my advice would be don't build that dirty coal plant but double down on a more rapid shift toward renewable energy because the private sector in Bangladesh assisted by low small credit from Mohammed Yunus' organization and others has really set the world record in rapidly installing renewable electricity Well you see I don't understand why people raised this issue because the coal based power plant it is everywhere in the world now what we are doing where we are establishing it it is far far away from Sunderband and not only that we have taken all the steps so that environment should not be affected and it is a super critical power plant very modern and we have taken all measurement to save our environment and not only that we have coal based power plant which is not very modern one it is inside our land the place called Dinaspur one of our district where all the human beings are living and we see no bad effect in the environment the crops we are growing there are plenty of trees the fruit bearing trees even the very good mango we produce there so if you go there you can see that in the land there is coal based power plant thermal power plant we have started it perhaps since 2000 now there is a first phase second phase and third phase we are building we don't see any bad effect in our environment there but now in the Sundarbans is that area you know we are very much concerned about it and the Tiger Royal Bengal Tiger it is not going to be affected at all but the people those who are raising the issue well I invited them why don't you go yourself and see it is 14 kilometers far away from Sundarbans and the place which is declared as the world heritage it is 65 to 70 kilometers far far away it is just in the bank of a river and on the base of that power plant now the well that part is developing the local people are very happy now my point is in 2000 when we established power plant in the land just well one of our district densely populated district nobody raised the issue it means sometimes it seems to me that they don't think about the people or human being but now they are worried about our Royal Bengal Tiger or Sundarbans but I am telling you one thing we have taken many steps already we have started we are building the green belt in our coastal area we increased our forest when I become Prime Minister first time in 1996 our forest was only 7 percent now we develop it about 17 percent but our target is increased up to 25 percent I mean green belt and the area so it is not at all issue but the people those who are raising the issue I don't understand they have no point to well they are shouting demonstrating it is true but what is the real reason and what is the real effect they cannot spell out that is the crucial thing but it is really very very unfortunate because we have to provide energy to our people because I have to develop our country if you cannot develop the economy condition of your people then how you will save our people we have to ensure the food security we have to give them job opportunity we have to develop socially the social supplement program already we reduce our poverty level to 22 percent which is 51 percent but this power plant is necessary for our development and I am telling you the most modern power plant we are going to establish I think you framed the challenge really well I want to give you a chance to make an intervention then also talk a little bit about the new version of Inconvenient Truth and then we want to bring everybody else in because I think you will be excited to know what is coming just one more point on this the World Heritage Center has petitioned Bangladesh to protect this site and not build another dirty coal plant in the river several coal ships have already sunk in the river the pumping of 5000 cubic meters of water out of the coal plant into that endangered area is also an issue the international union for the conservation of nature partly because of the tigers but also the other species have also petitioned to protect that and no one is proposing to curb the right to development but I would hope the news media would look if they have time at all of the issues involved with this now thank you for asking about the movie it will premiere at the Sundance Film Festival tomorrow night unfortunately I have to leave here in Davos about 2 a.m. this morning but thank you very much it's an Inconvenient Sequel Truth to Power and I hope that it is well received and thank you very much for your great chance to mention it I invite Vice President to come to Bangladesh and I'll take you to that place you can see in your own eyes and the coal will be carried in a covered cargo not an open one and it will never damage our look this is my country and since I become Prime Minister this country is developing this country is developing we reduce our poverty level our economy condition is increasing we achieve 7.1% GDP so the people those who are crying about this environment and all these things perhaps they have something different in their mind but they cannot prove that yes it will damage our or our tiger or no they cannot prove I can challenge I think we framed the debate really well thank you both I think Vice President will come and see I want to come too Prime Minister Solberg you know Norway has been such a leader on the deforestation and climate issue but we've got a new political context now new political context in Europe and a wholly new political context in America the United States may flip at the end of this week from being a climate leader climate mitigation leader to the leading climate denier how will this affect a country like Norway your mission and agenda well for Norway I usually say yes we are trying to find new ways of dealing with the emissions both in Norway and outside we have to be honest Norway is a gas oil and gas producing country our wealth is built on fossil fuels and even if Norway doesn't use most for we have I think nearly 70% renewables in our energy consumption and it's basically our transportation system that really has large emissions and some businesses that we are trying to work on CCS projects and others we still of course as an oil and gas producing country know that we are part of the problem for other countries that's why we also feel a moral obligation to continue I don't see that the changes in Europe is going to change the climate agenda I believe that the Brits are going to continue being active on this believe my sister party the Conservatives and Britain is going to hold firm to an agenda against emissions and try to work on that I think the challenge of course will be that some of the European constructions around the ETS systems and other things will change but I think the basic structures of that which is the framework Norway also follows up on is going to be there for our national cuts the challenge with the United States is of course the Paris agreement is put in place it is in place it's a long process to get out of it again but of course not implementing it might be a possibility for a new administration I still believe that there is a big momentum and I meet leaders from cities and states in the U.S. that are firm on the belief that they should participate in the work to combat climate change so I hope there will be a mobilization and I think if the rest of us are putting focus on the transformation of new types of energy getting better business deals on this making sure that the investments goes further I always believe that those who are investing in what's healthy and for the nature will win in the long term so people who will continue to deny will fall back loose opportunities in the future and if the European Union continues to put its stamp on demands of different products make sure that we are using our sort of combined purchasing powers in lifting new products that do put demands on what type of production process they have been through then of course it will be sort of a norm for the whole world and then I mean it might not be as a big problem as it might be if the American starts to fall back they have not been in the forefront in the history either they have signed up but they have not been really in the forefront have they? It is frightening I can speak as an American to think that there are neo-nazi parties in Europe that believe in climate change and our second major party doesn't now to soon be the ruling party but I am not supposed to be on the panel so Patrick how does a big food company in China use its supply chain to help us scale the Paris agreement and help China participate in that scaling how do you use your supply chain to help us scale all these mitigation efforts on behalf of China on behalf of your own company which I know is something you are thinking a lot about Thomas Kofku we are running a global supply chain so basically the supply chain extends from alternation with the farmer in the field to bring the food to the dinner table so basically we are getting our feedbacks on a daily basis, on a global basis so I think from a commercial point of view that it is the government and global entities that set the target but we are the commercials we are in a position to really work out the tools and techniques to get the result so I think it is important that we can contribute as a commercial company and a commercial whole sectors and we can do to the climate change so I think it is important that you need to have a commitment you need to have a standard so I think we are lucky that we have investors like IFC the Tamasic and Kofku we are following the kind of international standard set up by those global institutes it is a commitment to sustainability we pledge to have those global standards are really important so I would say that with globalization so you get to know all the global standards the good things that large company, large institutions can bring to you and it is important that you have to turn your pledge into concrete measures so basically basically we record all the footprints carbon footprints and also we get third party verifications so it is important that you share your data with external experts in these matters to get certifications of your progress and it is important that you have to turn your commitment into actions so Kofku we are one of the major bi-fuel players in South America especially with bi-fuel, biodiesel and bi-ethanol and we are the largest bi-fuel player in China so we are supplying to nine of China's provinces and as for sourcing I think it is important that we source agricultural products from environmentally sensitive and every responsibly so make sure there is no land conversion land change conversions make sure there are no differentiations within our supply chain you know take sourcing for example in South America in Brazil so we basically we screen all the pre-financed supplier in Amazon and Cerrado so we even use satellite imagery to map the land make sure it is not a differentiated land so this is and also we seek to we seek to reuse and recycle a model so take hog farming for example so basically we use the bi-gas for energy and we use the bi-slurry to turn the manure bi-slurry to use it at the fertilizer organic fertilizer and we even re-root all the bi-slurry back to the alfalfa field to make the high nutrition feed for the dairy cattle so it is important that we have to collaborate so although we are commercially conceived as a competitor with our global peers ABCDs but we speak with each other on the climate issues and exchange views how to achieve sustainable growth and we held discussions with the Paulson Institute and talk about Sino-US in situations sustainable development of a cultural ecological protection and the climate discussions with world business council for sustainable growth about climate kind of climate smart agriculture and sustainable growth and it is important that we have to get results so in order to encourage commercials to really to encourage to make further investment in doing that in the last five years our energy consumption is reduced by more than 16% one of the points that President Trump makes is that when he's asked about Paris he says well I'll look at this but we don't want it to hurt our companies competitors but what you're saying is I assume you're doing fine living within these standards and even thriving more it sounds like since all this waste that's just wasted energy as well Tom I think there's one thing one thing it's actually it's really impressed me back to I would say five years ago when I first take like agri-seminar in Harvard University and they have agri-seminar every January so it's impressed me that the overall dynamic at that time I would say more than five years ago in China it's so much different compared with dynamic in Europe Prime Minister just mentioned that in Europe you have high standard of consumption so consumer consumption is really the driver and NGOs is really the driver to really to reshape the whole supply chain reshape the whole industry so I think today what happens in Europe is what is exactly happening today in China so consumers when they get to the supermarket they will look at what is the company how is the supply chain how is carbon footprint where is the traceability so all those questions you're probably forced to do that so I would say that instead of cost but it's a more competitive advantage because the consumer would like to buy commodities coming from companies to really be responsible to be responsible environmentally friendly and responsible for the climate change could I make a quick suggestion Tom please Kafka is establishing a fantastic reputation if you sustain people you have to sustain the planet wonderful slogan and in keeping with what your president has done and said here Norway has the world leading reputation in helping to protect the Earth's forest congratulations on that one of the problems you face in trying to live up to your ideals Patrick is it's very difficult if you are trying to buy palm oil for example to find the sustainable forms of people like Paul and some others have done great work there but there has been a lot of discussion in the NGO community about the possibility of Norway adding a slightly different approach and using your generosity and your commitment and idealism to have your taxpayers money God bless you to help Kafka identify accurately what the truly sustainable areas of that forest are in Indonesia where the peat forests are the carbon outgassing and the environmental damage is horrible so maybe here at the World Economic Forum a little partnership could emerge between Norway and Kafka one can hope that's a great idea while Alan and I are beating up on everyone on the panel we want to bring Stuart in you can get Stuart in on palm oil so we can bring Stuart in on palm oil you have a similar dilemma Stuart that Prime Minister on the one hand you guys have been really important funders of climate mitigation and adaptation technologies and yet this week Greenpeace came out with a report condemning HSBC for funding palm oil exploitation how do you wrestle with both sides of that coin it's a really good question and it's exactly the dilemma that President and Prime Minister were debating because I saw the Minister of Trade and Investment from Malaysia earlier this week palm oil employs a million people in Malaysia employs nearly four million people in Indonesia and obviously there's a demand for palm oil named Nestle, Unilever, Demandit we all use palm oil and products we touch every day actually the food industry it replaced trans fats which were actually killing large numbers of people so the issue is how can we be the issue actually is it spits into the sort of this dilemma we can step away from funding palm oil but actually then our influence disappears so actually we are a member of the round table and sustainable palm oil ourselves and actually what we require our clients to do and what Greenpeace have said is you've got a bigger exposure than everyone else you've got a policy but you don't enforce it we would factually disagree with the last point but we actually use our influence to force change and for example we've closed something like 104 relationships with palm oil companies since 2014 because they wouldn't agree to hit RSPO standards by 2018 so the reason and it's reputation very dangerous to stay engaged in these sectors for the obvious reasons of the Greenpeace report but we actually see ourselves as potentially a force for good because the fact of the matter is if we stepped away from these two massive agricultural sectors or these two the single agricultural sectors in two countries it's not that they won't get finance so the fact of the matter is they'll find alternative finance from institutions that may not have the same sense of responsibility that we do so I actually met with the head of Greenpeace a bit earlier today to talk about an active engagement between ourselves and Greenpeace so if we're going in the spirit of Davos we should join this Norwegian Kofco for disclosure as a client of ours in terms of this initiative because I think by staying involved you hopefully can reconcile the dilemma because there is a human development employment need in these countries and at the same time there's a broader need to the natural environment that we all live in that clearly is damaged by non-sustainable palm oil plantations Prime Minister you wanted to make an interjection Yes, well I've been to the rainforest at Sumatra I've met the palm oil producers and I know that there is millions of people who will lose their jobs if we'd stopped buying palm oil so maybe they can do something else maybe but we don't know but what we know is that they can produce it without harming without cutting down more force they can do it more efficient they can use their land more efficient and that's why this initiative as I said is a new type of having innovative ways of increasing agricultural production and trying to find partnership now both in the private sector and I hear you said yes and I see maybe you can do it into your supply chains to get the farmers to produce more effective because they get bonuses and knowledges through a program we would like to put up and we would like to put money and we are trying to get partners from other countries into this in the areas around the rainforest so that they can produce agriculture meet the months, create the jobs be certificated into a production line that means that consumers can feel that they are buying products that are real but we know that you can pre four times agricultural production in these areas if they are doing more modern methods if they are doing more innovative things they don't need to burn new land to do it but you know they need the knowledge and they need and to have that they also need investments and we are all drawing out the money it's the wrong agenda we have to work together with them in a different way and that's what we are trying to build a new initiative on Alison since you spawned the already the Goor initiative since you spawned the Goor initiative between Norway, Kafka and HSBC I want to give you one minute quick intervention to comment on any of this did you have any reaction to all that on all this whole question how you balance this question of financing and yet not making things worse I think the jobs can go to projects that are managed sustainably and if there is a good monitoring program and if there are purchasers that really are desperate to try to live up to their ideals then it can work we now have satellite WRI's forest watch and Will Marshall's Planet Labs will soon have a complete image of every tree every 24 hours I mean we have the ability to do this at the bottom of it is corruption on the ground in the areas of Indonesia involved here and everybody knows that and it's just very difficult and internet based crowd sourced anti-corruption efforts are really important in many areas of this effort to solve the climate crisis because corruption is one of the biggest sources of the climate crisis I want to ask Patricia Patricia Espinosa the UNFCC head we're coming to the conclusion here Patricia why don't you give us the last word well certainly not the last word after all what we have heard I would like to start by thanking you and all the panelists for your leadership and your efforts in addressing the climate agenda I did want actually I did want to address another issue which it has to do with the financing of natural solutions nature based solutions land use and other nature based solutions it has been partly addressed but I do believe that it would be very beneficial if we could develop a very specific set of instruments for financing of these solutions so what would you be so kind of offering to us who would like to take up the chairman's question go ahead please I would and the prime minister made the point that she needs access to really price to financing the world bank made the largest loan in history for renewables to India last year a billion dollars it's made a tremendous difference India is now moving so quickly but here we are in a world with almost zero interest rates but these developing and emerging countries that want to finance solar and wind and smart grids and batteries go out and they have to get 12-13% with a foreign exchange I mean this is an opportunity again for the world to put its money where the Paris agreement is in a way that will save us all the opportunity here again on lifting the economy is fantastic Matt close with a quick political please it's an old political joke it's about a man who was caught as a flood started washing through his community and he sat on his porch and an SUV came by to rescue him and he said no God will provide and the truck went on the water kept rising and he went up to the second floor and he's looking out the window and the boat came by with rescuers come on come on he climbed up the water got up above the edge of the roof he climbed out the roof he's sitting there on the roof and a helicopter comes down drops a rope ladder he says no God will provide well he dies in the flood he goes to heaven and he meets God and he said God what happened why didn't you provide and God said what do you mean I sent you an SUV a boat and a helicopter and this opportunity to solve the climate crisis jobs intensive a helicopter to save the global economy we need to take it a wonderful punctuation on the whole thing thank you very much thank this panel it's been a terrific discussion thank you all really appreciate it