 Welcome to Plus Politics, right here on Plus TV, Africa. My name is Kofi Bartels on Tuesday, 10 all-progressives Congress governorship aspirants, or aspirants, in River State designed a pact to support whoever emerges from the party as its standard bearer in the 2023 general elections. Chibika Meiji-led faction of the party in the state is insisting that the governorship ticket will go to the riverine part of the state now joining us to discuss this as a former director general of the United and Maritime Administration, and safety agency, and a one-time governorship candidate of the all-progressives Congress in River State has also previously been a member of the Federal House of Representatives, Dr. Takoku Peresite. Good evening to you. Good evening, Kofi, and good evening viewers. Nice to have you join us today. I've looked at the communique by these 10 aspirants, and you're there. True. Why was there a need for the aspirants of the platform of the all-progressives Congress to come out in such a manner? Thank you very much. If you have followed the history of elections in River State, particularly the primaries of the ruling party is the most rancorous. And not only is it rancorous. At the end of the day, whoever emerges as candidates sees himself serving a section of society instead of serving all reverse people. Without us, that wasn't good politics. It's high time we put the interest of reverse first above everywhere that consideration. We are one of the most endowed states in the country. We've got very talented people, yet we have not optimized the benefits of our endowment because of the nature of our politics. There is a correlation between politics and development in all its dimensions. And so we met among ourselves and started talking to ourselves on the need to be united in our shared vision, on the need to have a peaceful, ugly, credible process that would throw up a candidate. And when such a candidate emerges, all of us need to rally around that candidate to run with a pan-reversed vision, a vision that will give every reverse man limitless opportunity to achieve his best potential. And that was the driving force behind the meeting of minds that led to that communique. Interesting. Interesting. And of course, this is calling on the governorship position, the aspirants. They say they're going to support whoever comes out at the end of the day. Does this mean that there will be a consensus candidate at the end of the process? Now, both electoral acts and the constitution of our party made provision for different methods of choosing a candidate. It could be through direct primaries, indirect primaries, or consensus. That's the provision of the electoral act. Now, our party constitution has its own provisions. As the people who realize as aspirants that only one person can be a candidate at the time and ultimately, one person will become governor of reverse states. And we are convinced, beyond any shred of doubt, that the next governor of reverse states will be elected on the platform of the All Progressive Congress. And so we have agreed that the leader of the party in the state has a key role to play to mediate the process as progressive aspirants. So you're talking about the young woman's self-transultation. That's the deal of the party. OK. And we agreed amongst ourselves as progressive aspirants that have the interest of reverse states, that are passionate about the development of reverse states, that are desirous to see the end of the mess that we're currently having in reverse. The misgovernance, the back leadership that we have in reverse. We agreed among ourselves that we must have a process in place that will throw up one of us. And as we do, we must already round that person. I think the bigger interest is to achieve the reverse state of our dream and be quick, the reverse state of our dream to a new generation of reverse people. That's key. OK. All right. Interesting. So what about the issue of zoning? Because this has been another contentious issue in reverse state. We have the upline riverine dichotomy or arrangement. Tell us about this decision. If it is indeed true that at that meeting of the aspirants, there was a decision taken to zone the governorship ticket in the APC to the riverine angel. Can you expand, Shater? Can I explain this to you? I will not say that the party has officially zoned the governorship of reverse state to the riverine angels. There's an understanding among leadership of the party that it is only fair, just, and equitable that the governorship should move to the riverine angels. The riverine part of the state is inhabited by the angels. Thank God it's monolithic. One language-speaking group, the angels, that's an understanding. And you can see that a pattern has emerged. All 10 aspirants for now that have indicated interest are from the riverine angels' talk of the state. That does not foreclose those who are not from that area, from aspirin. They have rightly aspired. Forms are still on sale. Forms? No, we're not even commenting on the sale of form. So they're protected by the constitution of the country, the constitution of our party. Nobody's going to stop them from aspirin. But the mood of the state, the dominant opinion, the spirit in the state is that governorship should shift to the riverine angel part of the state. That's in our party. And I believe that that is the desire of most diverse people. OK. OK. Interesting. So this is an interesting involvement. I have never seen the All Progressives Congress since it was formed created in the United States. Yeah, in river state. It's a new era. And you have quite a number of names there. Yourself, you have Tonya Princewell, who stood against you in 2015. You have the likes of Tonya Cohost, if like we're in the last election. What about the talk by some persons in the state that this so-called zoning formula should not be discussed on the basis of ethnicity? Because like you never know, in parts of river state, you have both upland and riverine. They are saying that the zoning of the governorship ticket should be discussed on the basis of geopolitical zones. And I'm sure you are very sorry, central districts. And I'm sure you're very well aware of that. You are from the River-South East Central District. And you were the candidate of the All Progressives Congress in 2015. After the others had come, namely Peter Adelie and of course Roshi Miyameji. So what do you say to this school of thought that the governorship position should rotate on the basis of central zones? Now, you see, there is merit in the two schools of thought, whether on the central district basis or on our geocultural political zone basis. The point, the core issue, is that in multi-ethnic societies, one way of promoting inclusiveness, peaceful coexistence, is that power should rotate from one area to the other. And so that is a common thread in the two arguments, whether it is on central zone basis or geocultural basis. And so that's a takeaway that both schools of thought support the fact that in multi-ethnic societies, you need to rotate power and to give people sense of belonging, inclusiveness, promote unity, stability, and peaceful coexistence. That is established. Now, the second thing is that if you say you should rotate on the basis of geopolitical zone, you said it, that on the basis of geopolitical zone, you have both the river line and the upland part of the state in all of the three central districts. That's also established. Now, the second dimension is on geocultural basis. Geocultural basis is that before now, reverse people, you have two predominant cultural divide. The river line divide. It might just be called river line. They actually predominant egos. So you're looking at Ocraca, Obubolo, Obubolo is ego. Of course, Obubolo is ego. Andon is ego, Bonitao predominant egos. Then on the upland part, you have two dominant language groups, what they call the Igboid and the Ogonet. The Igboid group is made up of a chair, a moma, the Orashi LGS, the Kote LGS, then the Ogonis. So all along, before the present era, most of our politics was played along the line of cultural groups, language and cultural groups. And so there's merit in the river and upland dichotomy based on culture. There's also merit in geopolitical or senatorial districts. But there's also an intersection between the two. So I think that the issues are not mutually exclusive. They are correlated. So they are correlated. Which should obtain? Should it be the sectorial zoning arrangement? You know where I'm coming from. All right, now you know where I'm coming from. So where should it be? Because there seems to be some fire coming from some quarters that it should be on geopolitical basis. Or senatorial. Yes, you had them, for instance, Peter Lee came from a particular senatorial district. And then after that, I made him from one other senatorial district. And now it's the turn of riverside. And the talk is that you were presented as a candidate by the Progressive Congress because you're from the River Southeast. I'd like to admit this, Claire. I think that the most critical thing in rivers, like in many other states in the country, is can we produce a candidate that is competent, that's got character, that's a clear vision of how to turn around the states and put the states on the first lane, put the states on the path of growth. That's the most critical element in this whole debate. And you're sure you can give that? And I believe that you can find them both in the river and part of the state and in the upland part of the state. You can find them in a trace in the territorial districts. And there can also be a marriage. If you want, it is also not fair that only the upland part of the state produces government all the time, not the river or the river and part of the state. Yes, you must have some arrangement to accommodate this trace in the territorial districts. The argument is also valid that, oh, rivers west went or produced a governor in Dr. Pito Dili. Rivers is produced governors. Like, and I'm going to go to Timea Mechi, Celestino Meher, and Nelson Wike. And oh, rivers south is there to produce a governor. But if we're sensitive to our cultural divide, you know, if we're- If we're sensitive to our cultural divide, then we also need to accommodate the riverine adjusts. And there are riverine adjusts in that city, in the city of the district. All right. So some have pointed out also that even if you go down to the, you know, tertiary institutions and how the youth even divide the positions in the organizations, it's been historically on upland riverine, accommodation or understanding. And some also pointed out even if you look at the positions of governor and deputy governor, it's always been like that. Is that- Riverine upland? Yeah, is that the situation? And how does that really capture how it should be? Yeah, but that's already established that I said the era before now, we've always played our politics along those cultural lines of upland riverine. I acknowledge in fact that the judge, most sensitive to the yearnings, aspirations and accommodation of the adjusts, that's established. I don't think there's anybody that disputes that. Okay. That's one. Now the second thing that we cannot fault is the fact that Synertida district is more recent. Before now, the Synertida district was arranged in such a way that all the riverine adjusts when once Synertida district. Okay. Then the upland adjusts were split in about two or three Synertida districts, but that has changed lately. And so this led to new dynamics. And as these dynamics evolve, we have to most evolve our politics, we must be more sensitive. The most important thing is accommodation, inclusiveness. That's key. All right, all right. So this must continue upland riverine sharing power and rotating power amongst themselves. That's the best way to go. The point that I need to make is this. In Nigeria, we're not going to have North-South divide forever. Okay. It's evolving as our politics gets matured or democracy gets entrenched. What will be most critical will be the credibility, will be the competence, will be the character of candidates. And I believe that that's the kind of thing that will also evolve in rivers. It's to get to a point where it wouldn't matter whether you are riverine or upland, whether you are southeast, southwest or east, Synertida district, it will become a material. It will get to a point where the most important thing for consideration will be the fact that you've got capacity, you've got a right vision, you've got the competence, you've got the character, you've got the track record to turn around rivers and put rivers on the path of growth. I think that's critical. Interesting. If we look at the data, it's not anything to cheer about. Whether data on security, you know, we are one state with high unemployment rate. That's why the father were the oil and gas capital of the country. That we're one state that our educational statistics are literally negative. Is this been through the years or just in recent years? In recent. Okay. All right. Okay. Interesting. Dr. LaCocco-Pireside, if the agreement from that meeting as captured in the communique, by the 10 governorship aspirants on the platform of the APC, is to be implemented. Of course, you have to go around and consult with stakeholders of the APC and you've said it here. That consensus communicate and then the agreement reached to zone the governorship ticket to the River and the Joe part of River state, comprising 10 local government areas is not one that is one, it's from the party. We're not binding on everybody, it's binding on the 10 of us. 10 of us. That endorse that document. So it means that we're going for... Any other person who wants to aspirate, you are free to aspirate. So going for it means that there might be some sort of consensus candidate. Amongst the 10 of us. Yes, yes. Fantastic. But what happens if that is not achieved? Of course, we're aware of the... It will definitely be achieved. We've already signed, we've already endorsed it. And we did that willfully. We're not compelled by anybody. Not by the leader of the party, not by anybody. Okay. Out of our own volition, we decided to come together, call ourselves progressive aspirants, decided that by some consensus arrangement, only one of us will run. But your colleague and friend, in all, let me say, party member, Senator Magusabi, he said that there is... I just want to quote his words, or the words, the report. He says that the constitutional party does not provide for the emergence of a consensus candidate. Well, I don't think that's absolutely correct. Okay. The latest amendment to our constitution. In line with the provisions of the Electoral Act made provision of consensus. That's the latest amendment. Oh, really? To our constitution. The amendment that was effected in last convention. But that's not the issue. Even with the consensus arrangements, you will still present yourself for primaries. You can choose, because consensus means that everyone who is aspirant must sign jointly that we agree to this decision. And so, if ten of us all have agreed that we agree to a consensus, and you could feel better, say I'm not in agreement with that consensus, you have right to go and aspire. So, why? Going by the new Electoral Act. Not just Electoral Act. That's the meaning of consensus. Meeting of minds, you can choose not to be part of our consensus arrangement. So we'll finish in our own arrangement amongst ten of us. Present one person. Could feel better, say I'm not part of your consensus arrangement. I'm supported by the constitution of the country, supported by the constitution of our party, I put myself forward. And I support yourself forward. It is for the delegates to choose between the person who emerge from the consensus arrangement, or you could feel better, who is running solo. Interesting. And not if you get a message. Yeah, definitely. And so, the fact that we have a consensus arrangement does not stop other persons from aspirating. Okay, okay. But of course, the people have the final say. The ultimate choice belongs to the people. The All Progressive Congress of River State has refused, let me not say intentionally, but has not been able to get itself out of the situation it found itself in. Of course, we know that in 2019, the party was not on the ballot. We know the plethora of court cases, the plethora of parallel chairman that have been, have emerged from the party. Has the party finally gotten its house together under one leadership that will not be stopped? Now, I can say this to you. I don't think there's been any dispute about right on the butchupke-dotswimamichi being leader of the party. I don't think there's any dispute. But we're talking about the chairman and the state what they're leading. Now, currently, today, I don't think there is either a case in court or anything challenging the election of chief and maker of the case as state chairman of our party. I'm not aware of either a court case, a petition, or anything, anything at all, anybody challenging the election. You're sure what happened in 2019 can not repeat itself? I am not God, I'm human. Okay. I'm not God. All right. But to the best of my knowledge, I don't believe that what happened in 2019 can repeat itself. The indicators are not there, the signals are not there. Because we've had- I think we're a lot more organized, we're more united, we're more focused than ever. We've had several parallel chairman. I mean, Wogubom's is there. We have the likes of them. Wogubom has never laid claim to being chairman of the party. But at a point, he went to the national. He aspired to be national vice chairman South-South and actually contested. Okay. But he was not elected. We have the likes of Golden Shoma and there's a certain gentleman whose name doesn't come to mind. Golden picked up from me. I wanted to contest for chairman of the party but did not contest ultimately. All right. And the other gentleman whose name I can't remember, the one before Golden who had to step aside. But anyway, so you're saying everything is now settled in the APC and River State? You know, the way it works in politics and I'm sure you know, even in families. Now, peace and unity is a process. We will not get to a time where we say in Nigeria everybody's united behind the president or united behind the government. It is usually a work in progress. And I believe that reasonably, the all-progressive Congress in reverse it is united and that we're very focused on winning the next election. You know, we don't have realized that their hope today lies with the all-progressive Congress. We've experienced governance in the past seven years. It's never been this bad as a state. We've never had it this bad. Okay, just before we go, you're back in the running to be the government of River State like you were in 2015. How different is Takuku Ado Peter side candidate from 2015 to Takuku Ado Peter side, the prospective candidate of 2023? Well, Takuku Peter side of 2015 is different from Takuku Peter side of 2023 in four key dimensions. Okay, okay. This a man who is deeply more experienced than before. By 2019, I've not served at 2015, I had not served as Chief Executive of Regulatory Agency. Today, I've served as Chief Executive of Regulatory Agency. So apart from understanding how the executive arm of government functions and the legislative arm, I've served at the federal level, at the agency level. I've also played at the international scene. I was chairman of the Association of African Maritime Administrators and that's a global scene. I understand now the relationship between sub-nationals and supranationals. That I understand clearly. So that's one, a man who is deeply more experienced. The second is that you now have a man who is more passionate than ever because I've seen River State flourish. I've seen good leaders in River State. I've seen very bad leaders. Yes, we don't have time. Selfish, diverse leaders whose only preoccupation is primitive accolation of wealth. Leaders whose understanding of development is brick and mortar. Who are you referring to? I'm not referring to anybody. I'm only saying I've seen two eras, golden era of rivers and I've seen the dark ages of rivers. Now that I had my passion and more than ever, I am desirous of making a difference, not just for today, for the sake of posterity. All right, we have to live like that. There's a difference between Da Kuku of 2015 and Da Kuku of 2023. I'm afraid we just have to live like that. If I allow you, we'll go on and on and on. Da Kuku, I'd like you to decide we thank you for your time. We're monitoring our affairs and activities in River State and I'm sure we'll have you here. Any vast is a volatile or a strategic state in the country. Fantastic, and that's as much you can take.