 All right, there we go Hello everybody if it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer weekly Joining me as always is my co-host Tom. What's up Tommy? Hello friends. I'm on the road again this week. Hopefully the video is working. We'll see I can't like watch it So I don't know you're hopefully you hopefully have it up somewhere. I'm trying to pull it up right now So we'll see. Yeah, that's how responsible. We are folks. I don't know what you want It looks like you're in like a Tarantino film Like I'm in a tarantino film Yeah, like the way the zoom is with your head just say it like a very like classy Tarantino film. Oh, thanks Does he make any other kind? That's the question. I mean, I don't think so. Sure So this week we're gonna talk about your best starter armies. This has been a year of book releases and It seemed like a fun way to do to talk about that like well that we've got all these new options Where should people be starting right? And we're in like a new season, right? Like it's we're in like the season of people like looking at new armies and Christmas is coming and Christmas time I have money. Yeah, and so, you know people do new armies with the new year And so I felt like you know like this could be a good show for us Absolutely like look I imagine there's a lot of people who are going to put some some armies under their trees I mean, I know I'm asking for Warhammer stuff for Christmas not only but there's gonna be some of that undermined What about you are you are you gonna put stuff under the tree? You don't ask your family for anything? No, no, they don't they don't buy me Warhammer stuff. Why not? They don't support my addiction because they know that I will buy all that I need So but there will be Warhammer stuff under the table at the tree because I'm doing a mall crusher for my son For his iron jaws. Okay. Well, that's nice of you Yeah, and my daughter's gonna get a start collecting so many Xbox, so Well, isn't that cute? Yeah, I mean nope and nobody's getting anything for you I would feel ripped off if I was you this is the problem Well, I have to give them stuff. I'll get things just not like Warhammer things it'll it's fine. It's fine. That's an official thumbs down from me dog Sorry, man. All right Well at any rate if your list happens to have some stuff or you're just thinking of starting a new army in the new year And I agree that is the time to do it You know make yourself a resolution to actually get that army painted or to maybe collect something you that interests you or whatever We'll do I'm not gonna resolution show. I'm not gonna lie though I am really really looking forward to the new year because that means I get to actually think about starting a new army. I Mean I Haven't started an army this year. Of course. Of course, Tom. I'm just not even gonna argue it with you. That's fine Yep, that's and so well that I've held on we got four weeks or three weeks, baby That's it. That's it and then I will have held my new year's resolution So let me ask you a question Tom. Let's say you got some slaves to darkness models, okay? Like let's say that happened Well, I have good. Is that a new army for you? I mean probably Like I don't know because I've never ran slaves darkness. I've always run. Well, you didn't run night on previously Yeah, but I'd already bought like a metric crap ton like I haven't bought any night on this year Like all the night on I've paid it is literally stuff. I already own And so but like I think that if I bought like slaves to darkness models It would probably count now that said like I have like 1200 points of slave to darkness painted right now, maybe more Like 30 cask warriors trying to find out where this line is Tom This is the most like this is no new armies No new armies like that like that's been the call is you know, like if I buy things they have to be for an army That I already have I can't start any new ones and I have not Okay, I'm just gonna leave that to the users to the viewers. Sorry that you know That this is the insanity you're living with that. This is the delusional world you live within that's fine I'm just gonna support you completely Tom. I haven't started any new armies. That was like I agree You're preaching to the choir. I said I agree with you No, no issues here Tom. I don't know how much our viewers are gonna agree with this nonsense, but that's all right I completely support you Tom All right, so let's talk about the news though because that's up first Okay, so we have a rumor engine that I kind of like yeah, it's It's a bonsai tree. It is a bonsai tree. Well, you have thoughts. Sorry I do I have little comments over on my phone to the right of me Yeah, no worries actually I do I actually think that we are dealing with the first like really big hint of Haish stuff Okay, all right So like I was thinking about this this week and I'm pretty sure like can I very very sure here real quick Okay, let me answer a quick comment. Yes. I do have a black armor tutorial. It's way back in there I'm going to do another one sometime soon. So look for that too. Everybody should strap on their tin foil hats for this this Journey we're about to go on because I've heard this theory. So I can't wait. Just get ready for some classic Tom Connecting dots. All right, ma'am. Take us through it So I'm pretty sure that we are going to see some pretty strong Eastern themes with our Haish stuff Now I'm not gonna say that everything from Haish is going to have like an Eastern theme But Like the realm of light like and then enlightenment is a big deal and they've been like slow to action Right. Okay. And so like they have it like jumped to to like Action but they've been like contemplative and how to respond sure and we have We already have like the first like glimpse of realm of light stuff. We have is the Cypher lords from war cry, which has very like a number of Eastern elements And now we have like the bonsai tree And Like you know it was thinking about it and we had some glimpses of it with the death stuff With the more talus guard like I don't know. I think that we're gonna get some pretty solid Eastern Lee themed stuff coming That's how this ranks Feature into that because this for ranks or whatever his name is this Frank's that new awesome cat llama That's like the most amazing model ever He is or he or she it I don't know Is also from Haish Yeah, of course it is because llamas like have you ever seen emperors new groove? That's not Asian That's South America. Oh is it? Yes, and and yes, I have seen emperors new groove many times It's clearly from the 90s. I'm clearly confusing elements of it with Mulan Those are two very different movies. I mean Yeah Wow, Disney Wow Disney yeah regardless. I think that we're gonna have I think we will have some Eastern elements in In Haish that's what I'm gonna say and it wouldn't be super it wouldn't like surprised me if it was sprinkled over a number of different armies Okay, yeah, I mean it's a tree. That's my answer This is like one of those rumor engines that I talk about where it's unbelievably Clear and nothing all at the same time Yeah, right like we'll get these sometimes where it's just like a picture of a barrel or a picture of a boot sure And it's like sure it's a picture of a boot nailed it You know what I mean? Yeah, and like it could be it could be anything. It could be a boat So, you know, I don't disagree with your sort of dot connecting that like it does seem as though if you were going to use that kind of pan Asian aesthetic That putting it somewhere in Haish as the cipher lords kind of signaled would be a reasonable place to put it So I don't like agree with that and like like Sun Like they're just a number of elements within that imagery, right within Eastern imagery itself. That is very Sun related Like the rising Sun of Japan. Is that what you're going for your Tom? I I mean not just the rising Sun like so you have like children of the Sun stuff Like in the like in the role of the emperor like I just like it's like it's there, right? Like am I wrong? Tom here's what there's a lot of celestial. There are a lot of celestial elements like heavenly body stuff associated with cosmology in the East Sure, and in the West but what but the point sure here's here's what I'll say Tom There are going to be state and local governments that try to ban you you're grasping at so many straws right now, okay? Like They're everywhere But sure man Like look we all know that 2020 is going to be an exciting year because realistically we'll probably see like two new armies, right? Just sort of yeah, just sort of on theory of What the year is gonna look like we'll have most of the old books completed We'll get some second rounds of some books probably some updates. Maybe a new chamber opened whatever whatever But we're gonna finally see what this world looks like when they can When they get to like crack it open and start really focusing on new stuff Totally and I have a feeling that It's going to be one of my favorite years of Warhammer ever because classically I've loved it when they take the Governor switch off of the designers and just let them do crazy things and explore the corners of this Wacky mortal realms like the Spharynx, you know, yeah, you said that last with OBR I just want to point that out. Yeah, that's fine And I still love that OBR exists just because it doesn't speak to you personally doesn't mean anything I think it's a really cool thing that that has spoken to a lot of people, right? Like there are people who saw that went that is for me. I am right or die on that That's the kind of stuff. I want to see right new things actually introduced because I am sick Tom sick to death of the of the rose-tinted glasses swimming in nostalgia That we constantly are layered with of the greatness of things that haven't existed either ever or since the 90s I like some of those old things too, but sometimes we can get new classics Otherwise, we just get reboots forever and I don't want that So I would like to see both of those things and I think we'll finally have a chance to let them actually do that Yeah, I could do that Alright All right, so yeah, that's that's our rumor engine. What do you think it is? viewers besides a bonsai tree I You know W. Soren said it's the basing element for the giant winged now apparently Asian themed angel elves So they're they're like they're like pan Asian aesthetic giant angel like their spirit folks Okay, and in the kind of the Asian stuff and so you could you could lean into that aesthetic especially with like the Environmental I personally would love a giant army of pandas, but that's just me a Giant army of pandas sure. Yeah, you could have only I'd love to see more ony in the world That'd be a cool thing just playing with you Yeah, or like what are the birds ten you or whatever aren't those the bird people? I'd love I'd love ten you maybe like demonic ten you type of thing I think ten gore supposed to be kind of demonic, but you know that kind of thing would be cool Like not just a bird person, but do something do something cool with that. I'm not a major sculptor Anyway Yeah, what else we got in the news we got more Sorry, I'm still thinking about pandas In Jack black. Sure. Okay. Um, so ogre ogre blood bull team With female ogre sculpts. Did you see the big mama charge? Yeah, I did. They're really good I love all the newer sculpts. They're so good. The little noblars look funny The big ogres are great Like I think they'd be an awesome inclusion into just any regular ogre army by the way They could be cool man-eaters You can make some of them into a thing of glutton's, you know Give them some different weapons or arm swaps or big, you know, give them some big giant weapons They'd be good iron guts. Like they're just they're versatile. So I dig them. I think they look like stupidly amazing. So The blood bull sculpts are always really cool, I think I've liked more or less I don't I have zero interest in that game like complete honesty blood bull has never interested me I don't like American football. I don't like football and Is it hence I have no interest in the game Not the least bit ironic to you that like a British company is making a variant of American football When like our football isn't actually football, which is their football Because no it was real popular like at the time when blood bull was originally conceived it wasn't is still quite popular but It was just an interesting way to to sort of sell something into the US market the US was a big market at that time and There were many there were people in the studio who remember at that time like Individual games got made largely because some designer decided to make it right? They were there's a lot of independence and the person or the people who designed it as I understand the story We're just big fans of American football And so, you know, it was a neat way to kind of bring that into the Warhammer world. So yeah, it's cool That's fair Okay All right What else we got Tom? Sorry, I'm trying to keep up on the comments. It's fast and furious tonight. It is it's it's hot So we got slaves the darkness pre-order that's happening on the 7th We have book cards endless Bell start collecting they're gonna deliver on the 14th We know that with all of that stuff the new slaves darkness is getting started as 95 And then everything else is priced similarly except for the war scroll cards, which are at $35 Which just tells me there's a lot of those Sure Yeah, I mean it's gonna be a big army because they probably won't cut much of anything except for the stuff that doesn't have models Like I would imagine the so things we know from the stream today The soul grinder is in the book the Velikor is still in the book There was some concern of whether, you know, he would be cut both the mutilith vortex beast and the The other one whose name eludes me The Wrath something whatever the two versions of mr. Henshey The slaughter group. Thank you the two versions of mr. High five I should say are both in the book The things I would expect to go away are the things that just don't have models So this is like the chaos sorcerer the mounted chaos sorcerer lord, right? Ah, sigh I love my converted chaos mounted sorcerer. Yeah, but I mean he never he hasn't existed for A bajillion years, you know, the good news is I have planned for this day and he was magnetized So that's going to become a chaos steed Sure for another night We know that Well, I guess we can infer this one's more of an inferer But we can infer from the discussion that archion and the baron guards points have went up Assumingly to match their new war scroll capabilities Because they you know, there was They there's a Talking about like an 11 model Roughly 2,000 point army now. I don't know what else he bought, you know Is there an extra command point in there? Is there a metallic in there? You know stuff like that, but But that was the nine baron guard the gaunt summoner and archion, so And he might have ended Short and had a triumph or something like he didn't he was very coy about it. He didn't give the exact Points of the army We know that baron guard can be marked And we know the army will be quite Just from now do we know that they can be marked like normal They can be marked like normal They now have the ability to be marked like normal That was it somebody asked this question directly and the answer was they will be marked like Like chaos knights and warriors You do you just decide they have a mark and they gain that keyword and they are marked period Hey just gained viability in an actual like nervel army Sure in lots of armies. I mean it was the stupidest thing That these like that these elite troops had nowhere to go They're they're one of the biggest crimes in the history of age of sigmar so far Because they are some of the most gorgeous models they've ever made I mean they're they're frustrating as I'll get out to paint because they take forever But they are gorgeous and They Just their rules were mind-boggling um So I I for one just hope that they cleaned up the rules gave them the mark capability Increase their deadliness and make them work and make them 300 points fine Right fine. I'll take a unit of heroes as long as it has the punching power of 300 points or whatever You know what I mean like a hero that and that's that's gonna be a hard bar to hit by the way because They naturally have the elite model curse, right? Uh, so like they need to be real aggressive for what they do at that point cost And yeah, I mean they should be awesome They're one in 10 million or whatever Yes, whatever we calculated that out to be Uh, they released a nice little article today about like rolling to see like in the path to glory where you land And I actually made it to verngard and then like took an injury Or no, I tried and failed so I got minus one and functionally rolled double ones and I was like womp womp womp So my my story ended at verngard Yeah, and here's the things some people are talking about like the cost of those models I'm perfectly okay with the cost of them If they're actually expensive and actually worth it, right? Like my problem with them would be if they were that expensive and they're cheap and bad like I My point is like How much do you spend on 300 points of plague monks or 300 points of insert thing here, right? 300 points of whatever your your base troop is 300 points of marauders Sure, where you've got to buy four boxes of them to get that that number, right or something like that, right? So like I don't have a problem with them being that cost if they're actually worth it. They they are beautiful So now make them worth that in all ways, right? That's that's what they should be like the army actually if that's truly your army That could be a quite reasonably costed army when you if you buy it on any kind of discount, right? Because you've got three boxes of air and guard archie on and a gaunt who's like the single character, right? Um, you could have that for in the u.s. That's that's a cheaper than 500 army It could actually end up being on the low end of the curve as far as cost goes Um, if you compare to many armies out there go go buy yourself a bunch of more tech guard You know what I mean to get to your your actual guard are 20 dollars, uh are 20 models for box But I hear yeah, they're they're 20 for what 50, right? Yeah, 20 miles for 50 bucks. Like they're a good deal. They're fine. I'm just saying like if you need to get up to 60 of them, which is a pretty common number you see in a lot of armies right like Okay, so that's 150 right there, you know, plus your other characters and so on and so forth. So at any rate, um Heaven forbid uh The zinch the karakak lights ever become good Oh god, yes, absolutely. Yeah Okay, so uh slaves darkness. Uh, we have prices on all that stuff Um delivery on the 14th. Uh, also we have delivery of the tomah champions on the 14th Yep, uh, which will include new war cry champions including our little new lama Our lama lama Yep, the femurian guy and the big minotaur dude and the spranks. Yep. I have mine on pre-order I'm really excited about that. I love all three of those models. Although the spranks is by far my favorite Um, and in that tome of champions They talked a little bit about that today or yesterday or whatever day in the article And it's interesting because they'll reprint all the cards that are in the work right cards that are no longer in stock um They're going to they add a bunch of scenarios. They add new, um They talked about how they're adding new specific quests. It seems like a very narrative focused tome I don't know if you caught that tom in the article. I didn't uh, which I love the idea of that's great That game should be like that. That's what you should be leading into with that game. Yes It made me way more excited after having read the article because all most of the article that they talked about was like New narrative quests and quests for each thing and specialized quests and monster on monster rumbles and just like You know and all the cards like cards from all of the armies will be in that book. Yep And so what they mentioned is that uh, it has specific quests For 15 different factions Yes, we're correct actions Yeah, um, well, I think it was 15 total, but either way, uh, I think it was 15 new I don't think it was new But at any rate, we know what a bunch of the new ones are because then uh, that also leaked So another packaging slip leaked um, and told us that Um, so it shipped out like the beginning of december Uh, so there's been about a six week lead time on these things So expect this release to be sometime in january probably Yeah, they said that um, well, they said the new the new those for those additional war bands coming in 2020 Is what they said so we know it's not coming right at the end of the year We know it's not coming in the year, but like because of the lead times I would expect mid to late january just from like shipping times um On these and what we're looking at is we had confirmed factions for slaves to darkness uh, ocr bone reapers Uh, crawder and overlords disciples of zinch and more stormgaster turtles Yes, and there's probably a couple more, but that's where I cut off Now notably what should what people should see there is that obviously that's all the new Armies that are either have released are releasing very soon or rumored to be getting books Right, right. Yeah, funny. You know like because we we had heard very kind of clearly that uh, that ko and disciples of zinch were dropping in um in February and I had confirmed that from sources that I had that that's what that was I had heard from a secondary or like a tertiary source I guess that we may have seraphon in january. I suspect that rumor is not true Um, we had heard that maybe seraphon were coming in january But it wasn't from anybody that I knew that was like super reliable and With the release schedule, we've had confirmed that the rest of sisters of battle are coming in january And we may have this thing coming in january. We'll have the faq dropping at the end of january I I don't think that we'll have seraphon in january I you think they'll be more the they'll be like a march thing If they drop sure well at any rate this was the absolute confirmation to me that we're going to get the double release of Disciples of zinch and karadron overlords Right that those are going to be our two tome updates that probably come in like february And that'll probably have a a box against each other. Maybe heroes Maybe maybe a new hero in each. Who knows but right but or I could even see them throwing a gaunt summoner in there, uh for zinch Um Like not necessarily a new gaunt summoner model, but just a gaunt summoner Um given the the changes Yeah, I mean the fact that k.o. Are getting a war cry All the work I support that they've been on the rumor. It just tells me okay. Your book is coming so polish your guns You know keep your powder dry for a little while longer And uh, don't worry. Don't worry little sky dwarves You'll finally have your day in the sun again with hopefully a completely rewritten book that isn't Then changed like two weeks later Yeah, nick had asked me in the chat. What do I know about k.o. I know that we have Rumor has it that we have a That we have a dual release coming in february mid february is what i'm hearing hopefully on my birthday That will drop for both k.o and zinch Um, and that's all I've really heard. I've heard a little bit of echoes here and there of some other Potential rules stuff, but I haven't heard anything solid yet. Sure. I mean, it's definitely Like at this point, I'm willing to say like yep, we're getting that book, right? Like we were already at the 90 plus that it was coming now to me. This was just like, okay confirmed today, right like so All all question vanish my mind, which is great Uh, yeah, what's what stormcast units do you think we'll get? Oh, I would imagine you think it'll be classic stormcast or do you think it'll be Um, or do you think it'll be sacrosanct? It'll be sacrosanct Okay, that's fair Personal opinion, we'll see though. Maybe they'll just do a bunch. I don't know. Yeah All the rest of them. Yeah Like I could see them doing uh both Like I could see a skirmishy one right with like, uh night The uh, not my uh, what are they called the prosecutors? Yeah um The other interesting thing about the tomo champions and just to finish this item out real quick is the uh They also talked about how on the campaigns You can go on they've expanded like the injury chart and that kind of stuff And they actually it was more like what we would expect out of mordheim, right? Where it's like blinded in one eye was the example they gave which I was so happy to see Right like yes, give me more Yep more injuries. Where is that sucking chest wound? Come on. That's what we need to see Yep That's a plus one to wound that model Uh, as we all know, yes, that was a permanent neg one toughness now. We'll just be plus one to win that model. That's right Uh, or your enemy strength counts are your no, it'd be your no, it'd be just your toughness counts is one lower That's what it'd be in war cry. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, they can actually do that still I can still have the exact same effect Yeah, there you go. Um, okay, so cool. What else we got? Um, I should probably look at my notes I'm talking to the uh, no, that's it Cool Yes, so the can con classes are almost sold out people the morning class The friday before can con i'm coming down to australia can con. It's a weird thing to say Uh, looking forward to it at the end of january. Uh, I'll be teaching that friday two classes Um, there is a link down in the show notes. You can go check out the morning classes sold out But I think there's still a couple spots left in the afternoon class So if you're inclined, uh, check it out. We'd love to have you I'd be super cool to see you even if you're not coming to the class And you are coming to can con do stop say hi. I'll be around all weekend. It's going to be a lot of fun I'm super excited to finally meet all of the australian people who I haven't already meet because they came up to the states In person, so it's going to be a great time. Yeah um, the other thing was uh the, um That's what I was going to mention. Uh, the warhammer heroes. Um, nominations will go through the end of the month G. W. Has all the information on that. Check it out Nice nice awesome, uh, I In general, I've liked most of the people they've picked and I think that generally gets a good thing So go vote for your heroes Yeah, uh vote for tom. All right, so They don't have an anti hero category I think a hero we need tom uh, all right So, uh, let's talk about uh some pick of the week man. What do you got? What do you want to share with people? Um, I don't think we've shared this before. It's it's not so much a like a content producer as it is a tool Okay, um, we've talked about the damage calculating website Um, but we haven't talked about age of sigmar reminders I somebody's mentioned it, but it's always good to mention it again aos reminders I'm going to mention it because this show is about for new players Um, and new player or finding new armies and so when you start a new army learning that new army is a nightmare Because of all of this like sequencing and all of the abilities that are activating in different parts of different phases Um, and so there's a website called aos reminders And basically you build your army, you know, you pick your allegiance you build your army here Let me share it just so that everybody else can see what it looks like I can do that. You can't share screen because you're traveling That's correct Okay, so aos reminders. It's a simple website like this you choose your army I'm going to say daughters of gain and then once you do that you choose what you're you build your like Your army on this thing with the units and the traits and all that stuff and select all their stuff and then you Basically like once you have your list and what it does is it generates All of the everything So start of the round stuff all of your abilities that you need to use and during your movement phase All of your abilities that you need to use during your shooting phase during your charge phase your combat phase And so like it's a reminder for all the things that you need to not forget about It's a very very helpful resource, especially when you're learning new armies, which is the the point of the show this week Yep. No, that's a great one. That's a that is a great pick Thanks Uh, so my pick is actually going to be for so a couple weeks back. We had uh, john Nina's on our show when we were talking about obr Uh, we're gonna be doing i'm gonna do an interview this coming weekend with scott with midiak And uh, I wanted to spruke their podcast that they've been doing together that I hope everybody knows exists But it's called trapped under plastic. It's both on like podcast apps and it's just on youtube, which is where I watch it It has its own channel, so you just want to search for trapped under plastic I'll link it in the show notes, of course Um, but it's a lot of fun like those two are really great together They have a cool discussion They've tackled a lot of like really fun subjects like how social media sort of The nature of social media in miniature painting and stuff like that They're just very off the cuff and they're just super fun guys So I think they do have a great conversation together. They have a great rapport Uh, so it's a it's worthwhile checkout and it can be another uh another another hobby It's another thing. It's a great thing to have on when you're hobby another one of those Another great project for that or another great content for that All right, uh Tom what are you working on man? What's what's what's on your desk? What's your hobby time this week? I've I've been super hobby life this week, uh in all honesty. I just uh, I've had a lot going on I'm disappointed. So yeah, I know so I I I painted lava in the last the first 30 minutes of the show Um, I painted lava on my bases that I are on my endless spells that I started last week Um, yeah, that's what I've done this week. Okay That's not much but you did something you did something it's for progress I did I it's been a like it's been it's been crazy. So It's it's been a thing. That's fine. I understand Uh, you know, and it's an interesting thing. So just to refer back to that podcast again real quick What john started up like a challenge at one point. I don't remember what episode this happened in one of the recent episodes And he was talking about like, how do you get people to get over the hump and actually get hobbying because that's the most common thing Right people are like, I never find the time or I don't know when to do it blah blah blah blah. He said, okay Here's the challenge every day. You have to sit down and just get paint on a brush Sure, you don't actually have to paint anything But you have to commit to yourself that every day you will sit down at your desk You will get a brush wet in some kind of water and then you will dip it in some kind of paint if you've done that You're successful But the trick is of course if you go to that point You will just end up painting something Sure, right? Yeah, like that's what I did was I got I got grabbed contrast paint and as soon as I got the brush in Like knocked out a bunch of base stuff. I think it's a clever little like Mini goal you set for yourself So even if there does come a day where you literally just sit down get the paint or get the paint on your brush And then go, okay, I don't remember time and then you wash it You're still successful and it keeps you in the habit of sitting down to do it, right? It's true. Um, so there you go um The my hobby time has been a lot a lot a lot of hours on a teeny teeny tiny little baby night Imperial night because I'm painting up my small scale entry for um For for golden demon and they're like they're so small They're little tiny babies because they're like the size of a space marine, right? And I'm probably like 60 hours into this guy and I just have so much more time to go. It's just ridiculous Because you know, they're like they're very finely detailed little you're a monster. Well, they're like so packed with stuff you know Because it is like it's pretty true to the big night There's a few little places where it's not but for the most part. It's a pretty Accurate recreation of the full-size night in tiny baby format um So like I still I'm trying to do Uh everything but I'm actually trying to do like a formal house this time I found like one of my favorite nights out of the imperial night book and I'm trying to like recreate him in You know little mini scale, right? Yeah. Yeah So I thought that'd be a fun challenge Uh, I have repainted parts of that multiple times where I you know, I just got a little ambitious This is so here's the thing Talk about failure for a minute Sure You know, I hear people say like a lot of times this is a thing that'll happen, right? People say well, I was afraid to try freehand because I was afraid I was going to ruin it I was afraid to do x because I was afraid I was going to ruin it. First of all, you can't ruin anything Okay, that's not how painting works. You're not doing anything permanent um Sure, so just like it's it's wrong from the beginning, but like multiple Stop stop stop stop. That's not true Because if you've done a bunch of layers with airbrush and other stuff like that and then you like try to freehand over it Uh, you can't reproduce that easily without re airbrushing and if like there's already layers of stuff that's been done and all that It like you disagree you can especially when we think of it You're thinking about the time it took you to paint the whole model. That's what it is It's actually a trick you're pulling on yourself People go I can't do it because it's the whole because you think in your head I spent 20 hours doing this. I'm going to ruin my whole 20 hours You're not free handing over the whole model and redoing everything. You're doing some small section Okay, and you can fix that turn it back to a base coat smooth it out a little bit Nobody will notice. I promise also. I'm sorry. Was that piece for for crystal brush for golden demon? Was that model you were working on? Was it going to be looked at by a professional judge at the highest levels of painting competition? Maybe maybe it was not. No, it wasn't it was one model in your gaming army. So I don't want to hear it Okay, that's not how things are like If you're if you're trying to go to monte san savino Okay, then you can tell me it's gonna take a while to recreate a mistake. I'm okay with that But also then more than ever it's important to push yourself and to fix your mistakes Anyway, the point of this wasn't to rant about that the point is was to say I failed multiple times I tried like there were several times where I'd like try a freehand design It wouldn't work because it's too small So I'd have to paint over it and then start again and then not like it a second time and then paint over it And start again There are areas that night that I've painted like four times Because I just didn't like whatever I was doing and kept trying different stuff My point is don't scare yourself out of it. You can do it. Sometimes you just gotta keep painting You no longer took me to repaint over those sections like five minutes tops because it was a tiny little section right So there you go Uh, thanks. That's somebody said thanks dad You're here to help. Absolutely. I'm here to encourage all of you because I believe in you and I know you can do it Um You're like being way meater than like bob ross right now. That's all I'm saying. This is like, yeah, it's it's a aggressive bob ross um agro ross But anyway, so it's been a lot of fun to do the little guy I don't think I would paint more of them But oh, you know, it's there there it is interesting how faithfully they recreated the night in that small scale I wish they had more transfer sheets in the box. That was one thing. I a bit kind of let me down so There you go Uh, all right Uh, I I generally like bigger scale not smaller scale. So this was this has been an interesting project, but here we are All right, tom so Shall we shall we talk about some starter armies? So the way I thought we do this is let's go back and forth what I want to what I want to examine these starter armies on is uh, sort of cost ease of collection cost slash ease of collection Painting especially for you know, what that looks like whether you're a newer player or want to you know, how that How they are to paint right that kind of thing the actual work of getting them on the table Uh, and then play right examine from rules perspective. Does that make sense? Yep. Okay All right, so I figured we just we'd go back and forth. Let's just bounce the ball here Let's talk about some armies that we think are the best armies to start with So I have one I would like to suggest if you want me to start Yeah, go ahead. Okay The new slaves to darkness force Sure, it's not even out. So I don't really know the rules. Okay, so I'll put a small asterisk on this In that things could get way wackier but What I'll say is that in general Slaves to darkness have been a good force to start out with because they're they've often been quite elite Um cast knights cast warriors things like varangard or archaon Uh, you can have an extremely low model count like we mentioned earlier the 11 models to an army, right? Which is which is going to be a valid thing. Yeah, um But also the and and like yes as I mentioned some of those things actually Yes, the individual kit is expensive But when you look at like the percentage of your army you're getting It could still be quite valuable if you also then compare that to say the new star collecting Right, which is $95 in the u.s. And contains 10 cast warriors, which is 200 points of cast warriors We know that because the cast warriors are five for 100. No Uh five cast knights and your big thunder lizard lord, you know, that's quite a good good place to to start out Um You can find a lot of secondhand market stuff if you like the old cast warriors and old cast knights The reality is those guys are like in In mass out there in the world Right, so like if you if you're willing to look to the secondhand market It's actually quite easy to get your hands on lots and lots of cast knights and warriors and marauders and stuff like that yep, um I think that like paint wise especially the classic cast warriors and seemingly still the new ones are going to Pretty much fall in line with this are actually a pretty straightforward thing to paint Um They can respond well to a lot of techniques I think like if you zenith old most cast warriors and then ran some contrast You've got some winners on your hand, right? They'll they'll take well to like dry brushing and contrast paints and stuff like that um Yeah, I mean rules wise the only thing we don't know but assumingly they've like classically been a pretty straightforward army to play If that continues then that will then thumbs up on all three major categories Right, but I said that last one has a bit of a a star to it because we know they're going to be a little synergistic We know that like You know, they'll have some auras that you've got to maintain holy within and stuff like that So we'll see how it shapes out, but I'll give them like a 50 50 on that part You know like there's also an element that I want to like highlight that I think Should not be under like Should not be underestimated When looking for a starter army Um And it for me and it's one that doesn't get talked about too often, but it said that army has a very deep bench Oh, yeah, sure And so what I mean by that is like In choosing that army they you have lots of options and so like The player can like look across the range and be like I like that and that and that like I want to paint these things Right. Yep But then there's longevity to the army as well because what ends up happening is that like, yes, it's slave to darkness But if suddenly they're like I want to try zinge. That's a really easy jump Yeah, if I want to try porn, that's an easy jump, right because all their stuff doubles into those other armies Yeah, I mean you're buying five armies for the cost of one When you when you get this new stuff, I mean that is incredible value for your dollar, right? You get to play five different armies at minimum um In addition, I I agree with you that like in the long term having that deeper bench is helpful Because it means that you get to keep enjoying and exploring the army Over time, right, which also has value with one of your first armies Um, and that's why I would say like don't feel like if an army has that kind of thing You need to go out there and buy all that once Get with the star collecting get the core stuff the knights and the warriors You know some of the maybe like some of the war cry war bands like whatever, right? Get the thing you like have your solid 2k and then just over the next three years Buy a unit every couple months If you do that and get that painted at the end of that time period, you will have a massive army on your hand Right like people like one of the challenges is people Uh, you know overestimate what they can accomplish in one year and and underestimate what they can accomplish in five or ten, right? I was I was thinking about that exact quote last night Yeah, I mean the reason I have 14 000 points of tomb kings is not because I bought a 14 000 point army all at once and painted it It's because I bought a lot of tomb kings consistently for a long long time like, you know 13 years and just kept buying and painting them and when you do that it just keeps building, right? Yeah, no, it's true. It's true Um, yeah Yeah All right, cool. So there you go. That's uh, that's my first pick. That's my hot pick the new slaves of darkest I think is going to be a great jumping on point. Uh, obviously this isn't really part of it because narratively I think all armies can be interesting I don't know that anything's more narratively obtuse than anything else But I do think that it's also nice in that regard because it does give you a window into so much of the ruinous powers And into chaos and sort of a a core central lynchpin of the mortal realms and of the game of war hammer, right? So so that's also cool Oh Well, I'm gonna cheat Okay, I'm ready And I'm gonna choose two armies Okay um And I'm gonna say uh storm cast And or knight hunt Okay Okay, that's fine. I mean, I think they're both I I agree with both of those But I'm interested to hear your reasons. So walk me through it Yeah, so one like the right now They are some of the best model per dollar ratio you can get Because of like the starter boxes and thunder strike and Whatever else a storm something It's it's tempest of souls And that box is like the best value In the market right now Because it's less than a start collecting box And you're getting two armies worth of start collecting models. It's like the old island of blood. Sure. Okay And so tempest of souls is like a just an amazing buy Like to put things in perspective, I think the box is 80 bucks You get 10 chain rasps in there, which if you were to buy them separately, they are 40 dollars Okay So they have an amazing value The next is that they have a very good like Painting curve for both of those armies Both of those armies are very easy Like models to assemble And models to paint sure I mean, I think knight haunt are way easier than Uh than storm cast like exactly exactly. Yeah, the sacrosanct storm cast are a little more complex than they probably need to be I don't disagree with you, but they are still on the easier end of the curve. They're not zinch or anything. Yeah. Yep The uh Somebody asked about do the undersized units not affect that tom. Uh, they don't when you're buying like five boxes of tempest of souls Because you're going to get full units of grim gas reapers And so like in doing that you're going to get your 50 like 50 chain rasts Unigrain gas reapers and then a bunch of other models like it's just Uh, it's a really good deal Like it's hard to and you can resell some of it if you really want to as well Like if you're just trying to get off load not for new players It's going to be a little more difficult But like they could you know, like it's a great a great army like the end to explore conversions as well Because you have a bunch of those extra heroes. Um, but on top of all of that There's the new subscription service that's coming from gw Oh, sure If you live in a place you can get that. Yes, right, which is in the uk or in spain Uh, and like the first issue of that magazine is like two pounds. So like three dollars three and a half dollars Maybe maybe even less than that like three two seventy five or something In current conversion, I don't know and uh, regardless it's uh You get 10 chain rests And some sequiturs that's pretty good For uh three dollars Wow And there are websites that you can go and like buy like you don't have to do the full subscription And buy any number of those issues of like so You know, you could go buy like five issues of issue number one without a subscription And get 10 chain rests for three dollars So, uh That subscription alone Like it pushes it over for me like to put things in perspective. I am looking at buying I'm looking at getting subscription. I have a friend in the uk that has offered to like You know like have me ship to him and he will ship to me And i'm probably gonna do that because it's such a good deal and like my son plays stormcast And so like it would expand those models and I don't mind the extra night haunt and like it's just a good It's a good like again. It's good painting Ironically the two armies have very similar mechanics Like they both deep strike and stuff like that. So like if you're learning one You're going to be learning the other in in in a lot of ways um In some in some of the core mechanics, so they tend to focus on buffing foot heroes that stay relatively near the main blocks In those kinds of things. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, so they play similarly and on top of all of that they also uh um Foot heroes they play similarly um What was the other the other data point? Um, oh and they're both uh some of the sandbox armies stormcast obviously is a super expansive range So you can grow into that and likewise you can include it into any other order army that you have Sure And for night haunt like because of the way that death works particularly legion of negash Like bleeding night haunt into some of those other forces. It's not or legion of grief or whatever Yeah, or legion of grief, which is another uh another army So like it has very easy on ramps into other armies in the grand alliance for both of those factions. Sure Yeah, I mean, they're a little more finicky probably on the rules edge rules end for like for night haunt specifically Um, because like if you don't know what you're doing with night haunt It's very easy to get just kind of steamrolled Right I like yes, if you're trying like if you're just not doing bodies Like if you do the night haunt body push, it's a very straightforward play style Sure Which is just the only element that that also concerns me then you have this a large It's a lot of you're going to end up putting a lot of little ghosty boys on the table But it is but they're really easy to paint. They are super easy to paint. I mean like yes They have to be the easiest paint jobs, right? Like Like that definitely is the army that has the simplest most new friendly Uh painting capability period Yeah, so yeah totally agree on that part. Okay. No, I think those are both fair All right, uh All right, my next one. We good to go to an own. Yeah, go ahead ogres. It's ogres Okay, super duper ogres. Okay. Okay. Why maw tribe specifically Okay Uh because you have lots of options for how to Get at these things that is to say like ogre bowls ogres, gluttons, whatever we call them now, right? They've been around forever. Again, there's tons of them. You don't need that many of them for an army theoretically Yeah, uh Now there's plenty of like fine cast in this range, but you can just ignore all that junk, right? I mean, they did a whole article on converting ogre bowls into man-eaters, right and stuff like that Uh, I would argue you can do the same thing with iron guts, frankly Um, you can you can convert the heck out of your iron guts. However, you want to have any number of them that you want Um They if you're if you like the bcr side other than the hunter and the cats, which by the way Uh, you should just be converting your hunter. You should be going and buying the hunter Sure. Um, but other than that, you know, the the The start collecting box for them is just like how to play this army in a thing more or less Sure. It's like the stuff you need buy two of those and you're at a thousand points Yeah, like I don't know that I super love mournfang, but they're perfectly fine to start out with again I'm assuming a new person isn't looking to get like the hardest edge competitive stuff. They're just looking for something fun So ogres also have a play style that's very rewarding Like when you're a new player, your play style is going to tend to look something like push forward and smash Right and the ogres honestly reward that play style pretty well Uh, I would say better than almost any other army out there And paint wise, I think they're absolutely a joy to paint The ogre bowls themselves are large models like they're not super small So if you don't have fine brush control, it's not gonna matter They're quite simple but rewarding like they have a bunch of flesh, but it's well defined flesh You know, I mean they have very like shaped muscles. It'll take contrast really well Right, exactly. You can use contrast paints and washes and stuff like that and and boom jobs are good and they're gonna look great The big uh, the big bcr monster trucks, you know, the stone horns and thunder tusks again Simple techniques applied repeatedly will be great. They're like Dry brushing and washing and contrast and stuff like that and you can have some super awesome looking, uh big giant You know snow beasties So I just think that whether when you look at them from almost any variety now again I understand that there one negative here is some portion of the range is kind of an old fine cast It's not great I accept So, you know, that sucks if you've got to go buy the hunter who's kind of like Or you got to make your own whatever that's fine Um But I think really the whole rest of the range is very strong as far as that goes um I think probably the only sad part is that you can't get the new cool tyrant on his own But that's going to be true for a lot of things we talk about that there's just But they they still have a tyrant. It's not a problem. Like you can get a tyrant I'm just saying it's a shame. You can't get that new plastic tyrant on his own Yeah, wouldn't that be wonderful? It would Yeah Okay, I can see that I'm down with ogres and again play style is very straightforward Hey woe said slaughter master tyrant butcher 28 iron guts. There you go Seems pretty easy seems good to me. Yeah, but the point is is that like it I think you can do it in a again low model count army easy to paint army multiple options for collection Basic ogres have been around forever. Again plenty of secondary resources you can get them from If you happen to be able to pick up a feast of bones or something or the ogre half of a feast of bones Fantastic, you know, that's a wonderful addition. So there's just I still see those on the shelf like those aren't those They're not sold out ever supply The supply has been better on feast of bones than on the prior boxes Does the does the big cannon that's in that? Is that the thing that also built? Does that also build as a scrap launcher or is that its own does it does then it's a super great pick hottest pick Yeah Like man like two of the two feast of bone boxes gets you so far and ogres like it really does Because like you're just like a knoblar box away from having 2k Oh, and if people are looking for replacement frost sabers, I mean you just use the like plastic Wolves the wolves from like the space the one Uh, yeah from 4k That's what I did. I just I got like a pack of a I don't know. I get like a pack of 10 of those for for I got like a pack of 10 of those for like 12 dollars at some at some reseller at a at a convention and I was like Okay, great. I'm sure I'll have a call for wolves in the future. Boom All the wool all the the frost sabers I could ever want. I've just got frost wolves. There you go. Done All right, what's your next pick Uh work lands orks orks dot orks. Okay. I want to show you something. I'm ready. You guys can see this You see this bottle? Yeah quite well Okay That this was done by my nine-year-old He did a great job He did a really good job So and like this is no like this is no washes This is all contrast just like across the board contrast except for the metal obviously, which is like true metal um It's like with contrast these things are super easy to paint. Uh, they have a wonderful Uh, they have a wonderful getting started box. Yes, they do. It has a lot a lot of the staples of the army um, they've been in the market long enough that Uh, that there's just a lot of tools and they have the deep bench that if you want to go into Uh, savage orks you can do that. Yeah, because now it just opened up that whole thing, right? You've even though the iron jaws are like a seven model army basically, right as my classically joke seven unit Yeah, yeah, seven unit. Yeah, uh, you do all of a sudden have this ability to just go into bone splitters go into big Wa to go nuts Uh with that expansion, but I agree iron jaws themselves one again Multiple if you can find some of the old bigger boxes like the whatever was the iron Was it iron fist or something? I don't know whatever that big thunder fist something like that. Is it on your shelf? There you go Thunder fist, yes Like if you can ever find that thing on the shelf Amazingly great deal because it's got like the the megaboss the caster a bunch of broods pigs And you get a bonus giant for conversion bits. So that's nice bonus giant Uh, I mean like you you can he's an ally you can run him sure sure My point is you could literally throw the giant in the trash in this box and still be a great deal It's so true. It's so true. Yeah, like I just love this box Uh, it's such a good box. I agree and uh There's just been a lot of good opportunities of iron jaws. That's what I would say. Yeah And again beautiful models that take super well to newer techniques or to fun techniques But also have a super high end by the vibe, right? You can have them You can do anything you want with them dry brushing contrasting washing all those kinds of quick dirty techniques You can have a fantastic looking force that model you held up is such a great example Like it looked good and that's your nine year old It's tom's nine year old If he could do it and you know what you do it, you know, he hates painting He's like my daughter loves it like she just soaks it and she's like, I don't want to play anything I just want to paint and I'm like awesome. That's fine. And my son's like, will you just paint it for me? I just want to roll dice I'm like Oh, it's fantastic. And again, they're a fun army. They're reporting to play like rules wise In iron jaws, there's nothing that complicated. There's nothing that mind-bending Um, they're a tight efficient Like they do what they say on the tin, right? Yeah, and they have a really high Like skill level as well because of the all the synergies and everything that's there. Um, as an aside, we held up the thunder fist It's hard another like Gold pick if you if you see this on one of your shelves from the store is the old iron jaws weird knob warband This box was the allies box Um back when gb or not the allies. Sorry. This is not the allies. This is the skirmish box Like back when gw released their like first attempt at skirmish There were a bunch of these boxes that were put together for skirmish purposes Um, and they were like 55 dollars a box And you got a shaman Five brutes and five art boys ridiculous Yeah, I had like 25 bucks. Yeah, exactly So I say this to say like the like some of these are still floating around on store shelves And if so if you're looking to like pick up armies and you can even see these pop up occasionally on ebay Um, like this is just an army with like lots of bundles available. Yeah, like lots of tools out there For you to start a new army with Um So I would recommend that as well So iron jaws, there you go right on All right, so I'm torn on this one tom and I want to talk it through with you. Okay Because What I want to say Is Some kind of nergal Okay But I'm thinking there with my painter's brain But not with anything else Yeah, that's the mistake Which I which I understand because truly painting nergal is one of the most fun things you can do as a new painter, right? Because it can be messy. It can be gross Like is there a You know the army better than me. So tell me if there's any actual gas here. Can you do say a you know? Blight king focused for those are all plastics. Those are all good Um, I don't I don't know the cost on that stuff I've never looked at any of that stuff nergal because it has zero appeal to me But so do you think there's anything you could do that? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes So and the key is is they have a wonderful getting started box Okay, um, like I I never bought it because it came out after I had shelled my nergal um, but if I ever go back like, um, they're getting started box is uh five blight kings uh The lord of blights and two of the, uh um The flying dudes the flies. Yeah, uh, let's see Here it is Is it the lord or is it the uh, blight kings on flies or the little the little plague? No, it's a blight kings on flies. Okay. Um, so it's like all the blight king blight king you could ever want. Got it um And like you could build one of those blight blight lords as a lord of abominations Afflictions, you mean? Afflictions. That's what I meant. Uh, who's gonna buff your blight kings And so like a couple boxes of these Is going to go a long way you want a blight king heavy list like a blight. This would be very easy You know it's lower model count. Uh, I've painted up 20 blight kings and they are a joy to paint Yeah, like they are delightful models to paint It just feels very new friendly because it's like you can get out the technical paint You can get out the nergal's rot and the blood for the blood god And the typhus corrosion and riser rust and you know, you can just like go nuts And when it's all messy and gross and grody Good, you nailed it. You did it. You know, you made it look like nergal Yeah, I mean, this was my first real army was nergal and it was like it was truly a joy to paint. Uh, Like my first aos army. Let me say it that way. Um And it was truly a joy to paint The blight kings So like a number of boxes of these guys would go a long way You could run blight cysts. You get most of the stuff in here to run blight cysts like everything you need um, and like You can pretty easily Like if you started slaves to darkness like dipping into nergal would be really easy to do Yeah, it's a good point because we know that, you know, you'll be able to combine these two things together, right? Yep, yep, and so like I just and like then you can begin to buy demons Which let me just say the demon getting started box for nergal is also a great deal Like that's the other like you want to talk about even easier to paint. Oh my god plague bearers Give me a break. Right. Like plague bearers. I literally just zenith all of them and then washed them It did like a light dry brush and they were done. Well, now you've got stuff like contrast, right? So it just gets even right here. Yeah, uh Yeah, I mean the only drawback is summoning which there's not a lot of summoning And the trees is like to play nergal. You're gonna need four trees Yeah, but like that's that's they're getting started box right there. Sure. So is that 10 players three nergling bases three of the The plague bearer blight flies and then the harbinger. Yeah, yeah Yeah, like it's a great box. And so it's like a great like summoning box No, like as you begin so like nergal is just really easy to collect They have some great centerpiece models with both the duo and then also the glockin So I like I just I can't like I agree nergal is a good painting army I think that it's to me. It's it is still a like tier two army Like it's not a beginner army like I understand what you're wanting to do But because of the summoning because of the trees Um, it that that's what bumps it down for me, but I understand where you're coming from Gotcha Yeah, I just feel like and it's the kind of thing that I think also will really connect with and speak to people Like there are people who are really like I don't understand these people They are a complete and total mystery to me. It's it's sure Yeah, I it just it doesn't click at all in my brain But there are people who are right or die nergal who absolutely love it Love grandfather nergal love all the look at the troops love the gross grotiness of the army, right? And my answer is Okay If you like it Go nuts Yeah, uh, but For me nah, that's that's a that's a pass for my personal sense of aesthetic, but I I mean, it's where I could be guys That's where I throw the aos and I and I think it was a great army Because again, they have the deep bench uh because all of the slaves of darkness army can go full nergal Um, and so like they they do qualify in a number of those ways um Yeah, yeah, so I like them. I still think they're tier two, but I do like them. Okay fair. No So, uh, what else what else is there in the best armies for getting started? What else do you have? Do you have any others? Yes, okay Flashy reports. Yeah, there you go. Okay. I like it So walk me through fec because I agree wholeheartedly okay, so let's like for me like so much of like a like good armies for this Is is are the armies that like have obvious starting points, right? Where I can say buy this or buy x like a couple copies of this and you're good to go, right? Yep um and fec has like arguably one of if not the best um Start collecting boxes in my opinion Sure Do you are you gonna bring that up? I am I am I'm I've I have like a hundred windows. I'm trying to find the right one. Okay uh Here's the fec getting started box it's A big a big bat Sure, you're your big guy on mount, right? Yep. Okay, which will come with like a uh uh So he can be the abhorrent ghoul king on terror guys the abhorrent ghoul king on zombie dragon Or the terror geist or the zombie dragon and if you leave that guy off Then he could be either of those things on foot, right? So sure, right? He can be like there's just like He builds all of the big flappies that you need, right? Oh Yep, okay, and then these three knights Right the three crypt the crypt horrors that can also be the crypt horrors. Yeah, which also builds the heroes Yep, which can also be yes their own hero. That's right, right The courtier or whatever, right, right and then the ten crypt ghouls which also build as their own hero, right? So you're like for getting started collected boxes away from having an entire army, right? like honestly like You need an arch regent. You need the getting that you need the spells you need the um arch regent spells and um In the throne and then like for getting started boxes and you basically have the entire army and most permutations that aren't like more gone Yeah, I mean it it's interesting because it does give you a pretty even force across across the way But if you did pick up like four of them, you could almost run just like the all flappy list or like the all Right with a little bit of and then just summon everything else it right exactly. Yeah. Yeah, like it's just it's such a Like it's such an easy like this it was actually the fleshy record's book that almost broke me at the start of the year Like about starting a new army because I don't have any fleshy reports Yeah, it just dropped and I looked at it and I was like I can literally buy four star collecting boxes Or no, it was I'm sorry. It was two star collecting boxes and two Of the like dual box with skaven Yep, sure and have like everything everything everything and every permutation I would ever need You're about to quote a violent fem song there I want to respond to a comment real quick John that was 40k nergal which 40k nergal is better because they they keep all that grossness locked up inside some sweet looking armor So they get a pass It's the problem with the aos people. They let it all hang out and I cannot abide that level of of tom foolery Um, so at any rate Yeah, no, this is a great pick tom again also paint wise. Come on. These guys are just a breeze, right? Like a super breeze. You just like contrast all of them and then paint some bone done Yeah, and by the way, they'll look pretty good. It's not going to look bad. You know, there's some Because of the way that the skin folds and the muscle Muscle sure and all that work that like this stuff is made to take contrast well I believe the word you were looking for there is muscularity Sure, whatever Muscles they have lots of big muscles I want to put paint on them that type of thing. Uh and actually like I think uh, yeah So this is a this is a great starter army Like this is one of those that it's really easy to get into everybody can dig like fast zombies Like everybody has experience with fast zombies They've played video games in the late 90s or early 2000s. Yeah, sure Uh, you know, they've seen I am legend like there are ghouls. Obviously. I'm being flippant there, but um Or world war z but like that zombie runs fast. It's not a zombie. Okay. It's a goal. No, I get it fast zombies I know I was appealing to pop culture. Thank you. Um Uh, but regardless, uh, they're super straightforward and like it like this is one of those armies And like playing them. Yeah, I push them across the table. Even their summoning is limited That's why I like them as a starter army. They have summoning But it's not like unlimited summoning with an unlimited list Like they have a very like fairly restricted list and it's easy to basically have all of your possible summon permutations Built out just by buying these starting to start collecting boxes and or uh, that that old dual box, which isn't available anymore, but Um, but still this in like you could convert and you could make your own arch region from extra models in this box Sure, sure. Uh, let me hit a few comments real quick here Uh, so somebody asked what do you think about converting ogres to bulgur's? How can you go about it? Um ogres and minotaurs have the same head socket so you can actually swap them independently I've seen people make ogre armies out of the minotaur bodies I I I assume you could go the other way because they wanted like big huge muscular ogres not ripped ogres I like bad bot ogres Um, and that looked pretty good. So I you know, they can go either way those heads will swap around pretty simply so So there you go, uh, let's see Oh, where's the other one? I want to say hi to to welcome brennan. Walsh just discovered the channel today. Welcome glad to have you along buddy And yeah, okay. There we go. I'm caught up Uh So let's let's talk about some not good starter armies. What are what are our really bad ones? What should we stay away from tom? Uh, do you want me to start? Yeah, sure Skaven agreed worst, right? It's one of the worst It is like second maybe only to sarapan Sure. Yeah Both are ironically the two ancient enemies. They're they're both full of Uh, old models hard to get models Large numbers of models like the other thing that gives seraphon an advantage is that seraphon are easy to paint Like you can go nuts with seraphon and have a good time But uh, like you know come back to me with seraphon if they do get a new book in march Because that could be a very different world if they happen to get a new star collecting If your line gets trimmed if you know things actually become worth their points Like if if sorus if sorus basically become quite elite and multi-wound models and stuff like that That could suddenly turn all the way around Right because those dinosaurs are really easy to paint Um, so that's just like put a pause on that one Uh, but I think that Skaven are absolutely terrible. You need so many of them You need so many bodies a bunch of them are old and out of print and annoying and ugly and fine cast And you have metal that like you're gonna have to learn how to paint differently on metal Is like it's not gonna like those models aren't going to assemble like normal models, right? Um, you'll need different glue if you use model like if you use plastic glue Yeah, like just and the play style is a very technical play style Like you need to be like charging and retreating and and screening and Uh, and like if you set up wrongly you will die with that army. Sure. Yeah, I agree Here's one for you. I think fire slayers are a really bad starter army Huh, okay. Tell me why Because I think that They are way too samey. I think you'll lose interest. You still need too many bodies even for a quote-unquote elite army That are all the same And they're not like they're not as outrageously expensive as people often make them out to be But they're still pretty expensive Yeah, so what I'll say is this, um, you could get into fire slayers pretty easily by buying a couple getting started And buying some earth guard boxes, right? And because they are samey, they'll be easy to paint because you'll be used to painting them I guess Like and the skin is going to be really easy. It's going to take really well to contrast So like to me fire slayers are in that middle tier They're not like the worst Like they're not scaven bad. They're not a strong army They're not like but I would agree. They're not a starter army. They're in that like tier two army Gotcha our doc in the worst category our daughters in the worst category Uh, yes Tons of models lots of witches very fiddly very small need very Very like pristine paint jobs because they don't have Uh, just places where you can sort of throw contrast paint around they need very smooth You know applications of paint to the flesh lots of small details Uh things like that lots of easy parts for the army Like it's going to be an expensive army like you do daughters of cane You're you're forking out the cash because like there's not like ally boxes don't exist anymore Sure And on top of all this, uh, the the shrine the cauldron is out of stock Uh So all the art all the heroes in the army are out of stock right now outside moran Quality quality. So the answer is no you can't even start daughters right now. So just stop Um, so I agree with that. Um, I think that that's a bad army to start Um, I think that sildeneth are a bad starter army agreed too many trees and forests. It's lots of little models Yes painting dry heads is easy. I'm not going to disagree with that because they are just like dry rush and wash town But they're expensive to have a very certain like mind To be able to because it's such a finesse army But you have to have a certain kind of like tactical acumen to put those on and to feel them They have very complicated rules interactions, right? Um, yes, they're not your first army Like they are going to be so frustrating to somebody if that was the if that was truly the first book you picked up I just think about somebody looking at though those rules interactions and being like what In the heck am I doing here? Like it is such a finesse force as an aside if you want somebody to start sildeneth the right answer with that Like because sildeneth like so sildeneth is is in a really interesting place because it's also like we've talked about this before Vince didn't believe it, but it's true. Like sildeneth are a great um, like appeal to the female gamer Sure, like and the spouse like the the spouse army that we've talked about Um, and sildeneth are that okay like and like the numbers don't lie like when we did it last time We're like how many people in the chat like have experienced this everybody's like my girlfriend my girlfriend my wife my girlfriend Sure, but what I will say is this I think living cities actually offers a better end now Because you can then do it without the forests and all that kind of crap Yeah Because you can do without the forest you get all the pretty trees You get all the interesting models the easy paint jobs and then like for my daughter Like she wanted the trees, but she also wanted the girl elf archers Like she wanted the sisters of the uh of the watch And like you can do that You can do all the wood elves so you can mix in the wood elves and the trees very easily in living cities Sure, um and have much more simplified rules But even that's still not a starter thing unless you've got somebody guiding you because cities of sigmar Is another one that I think is actually quite bad to start with Because I agree. Yes. I agree like cities is one of my favorite No, check that cities is my favorite book. They released in 2019. I think it is full of endless possibilities Uh, I think it is beautiful and wonderful and just an absolute absolute rock star of what books should look like Yep, but but It is so opaque As to be full of insane options and just I cannot imagine being a new person And picking up that book and having any idea What to do from that point? Because you're like wait a quarter can be stormcast here and I can use trees here and a quarter can be ko Wait, do they even have a book like where do I get these things? What like? Yeah, yeah, I totally Like uh like it's a tier two army cities is a tier two army Because it is an expansive army that you like you you almost can't go wrong with how many like uh battle line units are So like if you just want to pick models that you like and put them on the table You can almost do that and have a like have a fieldable cities army And most of the range is updated now So like I actually don't think cities is that terrible, but I don't it is not a starter army. No, it's not And it's also like right. No, that's fair Things like zinch and ko. I'm just taking off the table because we're months away and we don't know what they look like yet Well, none of that say zinch will never be a good starter army Even in its new book There's no universe where what comes out the other side of the zinch rules The magic complicated rules tons of pink horrors turning into blue horrors turning into brimstone horrors Like there's no universe where that's your starter army It's it's always been a bunch of hot nonsense and it will still be that it'll be probably fun Hopefully more balanced nonsense now and hopefully somebody will finally put a bullet into change hosts head So we can all stop dealing with that But uh But it's never ever going to be a starter army ever No, I agree with that. I agree with that. You know, I reserve judgment on ko until they get their re-releasing No, I think you know ko is one of the worst armies to paint and it's it's frustrating or one of the worst armies to start Because it's so visually appealing But on the tabletop It's so like it generates bad play experiences on both sides of the table Because even if you have a bunch of shooty stuff, if they get anything into you you lose half of or more of your army in a single combat Which is why I said we'll reserve full judgment until the new rules because stuff could could vastly change And that would be right and they're and they're not the easiest to paint ko Like because of like they're very detail oriented There's lots of buckles and there's lots of like different fabrics on fabrics and stuff like that Like they're just not an intuitive model to paint um You know, it's the same type of thing with uh with eidenath deep kid like visually they're appealing Um, they have a very technical play style And they have a lot of detail in the models and so they're just not good starter armies um Trying to think of anything else that's really I mean I think zines just breeds complexity because it's about being tricky And you know like doing these kinds of high level like there's almost a meta layer of it Books sort of adhere in the way that they play to the meta of their the meta layer of their narrative because Often not always but often because that's kind of how the rules writers tend to write them So hence why ogres and iron jaws where it's a very straightforward combat armies tend to be more straight forward to play Now one would think that that would mean corn falls in the same boat, but corn is just right in the middle It can be good. It can be bad. There's lots of fiddly interactions, but there's also some fun things to paint It's just it's neither good nor bad. I would put it right on the line It would be my my middle point, right? What corn corn. Yeah Yeah, no, I would agree with that. What do you think about so somebody's asked about uh bone reapers? Nope, terrible bad starter army very bad expensive Uh, actually Is it though? Sure sure. Yes, because you're paying retail for most of that. There's not a lot of good ways into it 60 guys plus some knights plus some characters plus catechrose I'll bet you can get under. I'll bet you can get out for under $400 for the 2001 army I there's with what like a 20% are you assuming? Uh, no, no because like like you could go 60 goblin or 60 skeletons, right? $145 and then catechrose and a box of knights and like Two characters or something. Yeah the two characters And you're really close and you're almost there. You're maybe a hundred or 200 points under like grab a box endless spells and you're done Yeah, I guess I need to look at the points But I I just think there rules wise. I think it's it's gonna be a no for me. I just don't think they're a good starter wise It's actually like there's it's very despite being bone. You think that'd be easy. There's a lot of fiddly details on it. Sure Sure, um, and so it's just it's it ends up being a little bit More difficult as a starter army than I think that I would advise um Yeah, yeah Is that does that about cover it? Did we cover most of the factions? Oh a couple more to just touch on real quick Like I think yeah, that's fine. Go with glooms fight first So glooms fight to me is a non starter unless you're doing squigs Agreed. I was gonna say the exact same thing if you're going for that new like squig bundle Then I think it could be fine because squigs are like squigs are a great starter army. They're fun. They bounce around They're they tend to play pretty straightforwardly It's still in the higher end of this curve because there is still like stuff to remember like I've got to remember the dumb moon and you know stuff like that but Squigs and some trolls support like basically what you would get in the battle force box that that comes out I think is actually quite new friendly. It's a good deal for everything that's in there cost-wise It gives you a good chunk of the army um, you can they're very very easy to paint like Very easy to paint And yeah rules-wise. I think they're They're manageable, you know, it's not a one on the simplicity, but it's probably like a three or four You're not going to break anybody over that, right? um Beast of chaos, but if you're going into goblins, no no hard no Just all the different goblin stuff and it's ironic because I think it's the same thing with beast of chaos Yeah, yeah, if you were going to do like a mostly, you know war herd or dragon ogre based force Uh, I think that's fine, but if you're going into like a bunch of bestigore and a bunch of ungore and You know chariots and all this stuff and and Summoning everything it's just It's it's not the worst. It's not yeah, but it's definitely not a good starter army And frankly even with all those there's no great way to get those like herds and dragon ogre stuff anymore really cost-wise either So I just it kind of at best ends up in the middle for me now Because the easiest model in the range to paint the gore is the ungore you either need a lot of them or they're kind of worthless Right because like gore themselves don't actually do much of anything bestigore are Really really nice models. Um, but they're actually like fairly complicated models They've really held up yeah, um We couldn't leave without talking about slanesh for a moment definitely not a Uh, a starter army at least not right now. I mean obviously that would be a wait and see what happens in january It's like buy a 4 000 point army to be able to field 2000 points But exactly yes, you're not wrong. This is because the summoning is so excessive as it stands right now You just like this is my problem with them when I traveled with them for the past couple tournaments I went to when I took them Um, it was so annoying Which is good. This is like first world problems if forever was one right But I had to over pack so much stuff because I'm summoning so much stuff That is like the funniest complaint in the world to me like boy Is that a terrible thing to complain about like? Oh, no, this is the tiniest violin in the world for you. Um But it is annoying and like their models are also very very detailed Right like lots of the models are quite detailed not only wrong. They are gorgeous sculpts And my advice to you would be if you love slanesh if you really really love slanesh as much as I do If you've got the dark princess in your heart Give it a wait until january or if you don't care then just get them now If you're getting them just to paint them fine get them now and go But understand that it's a lengthy project right slanesh took me months and months to get through Painting that army because they are very detailed very gorgeous kids that take a long time Um, and you want to do that justice you need to be excessive with the dark prince um all right uh so That's We'll see. I mean, I think we that's probably most everything we hit all the big outliers and everything right Uh, I think that what you look at when to me it's like the defining features are Who's got the good getting started and or Access to old models in secondary markets right where you'd see a large number of them where the rules play in a fairly straightforward fashion and Uh, where the painting is going to be something that's going to keep people interested and varied That's one of the reasons I think fire slayers just in the end don't make the cut for me because yes Maybe it's fast, but it's also boring right And like knight hawn and storm cast are going to be the same It's going to be fairly boring because there's minimal difference between models Yeah, maybe knight hawn would fall into that as well, but I think people can be amazed by what they can achieve with knight hawn I think they just have a cool look Naked pantsless dwarves. I'm not sure fall into the same thing, but that's could be my bias speaking admittedly We all know I am strongly biased against fire slayers. I've made no secret of that So there you go. There's some good. There's some good thoughts on getting started If you have your own thoughts drop them down in the comments We would love to hear them if you have some instructions you want to share with people Put them down there Talk about them talk about what your experiences was with getting with getting started the tricks you had Because I'm hoping that people come to this video and are able to look at it here in this month when they're asking for new things We're in the new year when they're starting new projects. So Share your thoughts down below in the comments folks. It would be much appreciated But as always a little short one tonight. Go ahead Some people are asking like, oh, no, like I've I've I've for my first army I've asked for sylvaneth this this you know for christmas. Should I show them? You know what no Like so hear me if there's an army that you just passionately love um Then go for it Okay, because at the end of the day Like if there's an army that really interests you you should go for it Even if it's a more difficult one because it at the end of the day the best army to start with is the one that holds your interest I agree. No, that's a great point tom. I think that you need to go into it with your eyes open, right? If you are passionate, I think one of the reasons we want to talk to this. Thank you, tom This is I'm so glad you brought this up. My god. I feel remiss for not mentioning this If if you are passionate about something if something speaks to you, okay Then I think part of what we wanted to do here was make sure you're going into it with with eyes wide open And um, because it's just really important that you you have a conception about the road that's ahead of you Yeah, and if you really love sylvaneth like we've got a buddy who you know, we've known for years and years We just got him you just got him into war hammer and what his first army the first thing he went for with sylvaneth it's Stormcast he started I started Stormcast and then and then when he went to when he was planning for this next event He wanted something that was a little bit more competitive And so we talked through it and with sylvaneth getting a new book and with the what they wanted to do easy to paint I pointed him toward sylvaneth. Yeah So I think the answer is always just be aware of the road that's ahead of you and with things like sylvaneth You need to know that like there's going to be fiddly models You're going to have a fun time transporting them It's going to you know, like you're going to have to paint a bunch of woods like just be aware of the problems Navigate them make yourself a strategy for how you're going to get through the force and you can over overcome those things And understand that you might have a longer learning curve because their rules are a little more complex So don't feel bad if you lose some games at the beginning once you build that system mastery You'll even out and you'll have a great time But just it's not going to be something you just put on the table and push forward like ogres and yellow trees. Let's go You know, that's not the army. You just need to be aware like at the end of the day That's my advice like because if you love an army go for that army you can make it work Okay, and like you can bear and grin it like you can deal with complex models of paint if you love the army Right, but you just need to be aware you need to be aware of what the challenges are And that's what we wanted to do and with this show is that some air some armies are going to be inherently more starter friendly And that's what we that's what we've been trying to highlight here with the show Not not to dissuade people from choosing any particular army because again if you're taking with an army You need to paint what's going to hold your interest Yeah, because you're going to spend more time painting that army than you will be playing that army Most likely for years years and years and years It will take you years of play to even out that investment of time. Yes, right, right? And so you need to find something that you love the models that you love The all of that it needs to capture you. It just does um But uh, but yeah, but if you're gonna do something more complex something that we've rated as not as in of an easy Of a starting or star army. You just need to be mentally prepared for some of the challenges Yep, totally fair tom. Good. Good. Good call Yeah, all right. So with that, I will say thank you all very much. Share your own tips and trips tricks below Uh, as always look for the things we talked about earlier in the show notes But I thank you very much for watching this one as always. We very much appreciate it and we'll see you next wednesday Bye. Bye