 Welcome, viewers, to ThinkTechHawaii.com. The show is the will of the people, and I am your host, Martha E. Randolph. Today's show is called Scream, Run, Tell. It's based on an illustrated children's book by the same name. Scream, Run, Tell empowers and equips children with the tools and actionable techniques needed to stop the threat of sexual abuse, and it helps them to learn how to recognize potential sexual abuse before it happens, all without frightening them or affecting their natural innocence. My guest today is Elizabeth Lim, the author of the book, and the founder and CEO of SRTEL.org, a nonprofit organization dedicated to changing the lives of children and adult victims of sexual abuse. She is herself a survivor of abuse. She's also a trained emergency medical technician, and she has dedicated herself to providing a voice to the victims of sexual abuse through education and training. She is in partnership with the Florida Crime Prevention Association, and she gives workshops on the method that is described in the book. She trains law enforcement, counselors, and advocates on the most advanced cutting-edge techniques and strategies for preventing child abuse. Welcome, Elizabeth. It is an honor to have you as my guest today. Thank you for having us. Okay. I have a copy of your book, which those of you watching can see sitting here, and it really is very simple and understandable. Can you tell me how you came to write it? Why did you feel it was needed? What was missing from the techniques that we already have? Right. Well, as a survivor myself and having that experience and then experiencing something as an adult having five children of my own, I knew that it was important to do something. So I wanted it to be simple and to really start making changes at the very, very beginning of a child's life, which would be, you know, before even one years old. So I started doing a lot of research and working through understanding programs that are out there. So we have like Stop, Drop, and Roll, Click, or Take, and I want to have been successful. Okay. You just said that very quickly, and I don't really know what they mean. So can you say that again more slowly and tell us what you're talking about? Okay. So the methods that scream, run, and tell use is the same as Stop, Drop, and Roll. Okay. Click it or Take it, 9-1-1. So it's a catch phrase that you can remember all the time. Yes. It's a catch phrase, but each one of them have action behind it. Okay. Excellent. Yes. So a catch phrase that actually tells you what to do. Yes. Okay. Excellent. Without robbing the innocence of the child though. Yeah. Which is important. You give workshops, and you have all these trainings that you do in conjunction with that Florida organization. So what does that consist of? And why is it different from what maybe professionals who've been dealing with sexual abuse or trying to prevent it have had up until now? Is it the catch phrase by itself, or is there something else to it? Well, you know, we all engage in trying to prevent children, right? And prevent them from being abused. Yes. And so when I started doing the research, I realized one thing, and that was that prevention is for something to never happen. Right. Everything else is the first stages of recovery. Of recovery. Yes. And so as I started to look at all the programs, I realized that giving a child an area or good or bad is the first stages of them having to recover something. Where if you're giving them an opportunity to express themselves when they just feel uncomfortable, not nothing has happened, nothing at all. The child feels uncomfortable, they're able to share it. That right there is true prevention. Okay. So basically, and I did see this in your book, I don't want to take the time now, but if you open the book, it is very simple. They're just sort of like what you see on the front page there. A picture and one or two words. And it is about empowering the child, encouraging them to know that this is what you can do even if all that it is is you feel uncomfortable. So you're saying to them, if you don't like what's happening, even if it doesn't make sense to you, you have the right to tell someone. But it seems to me the other aspect of that is the person they are telling has to know they have a right to tell you and you need to act for them. Otherwise, it defeats the purpose, doesn't it? Yes, exactly. And so that's why it's important for not only to teach the child, but also educate the parent of the importance of a child having a voice. Right, which is important. Now, there are some pretty shocking statistics concerning who is most likely to be an abuser. I have them, but why don't you tell us about that and how your method really helps prevent that, which I think would basically be, as we said, empowering the child to stop it before anything has a chance to get going. But what are some of those statistics? Well, first I want to say that the Stranger Danger program that's out there, it's a really good program. And I feel that it's a strong program that should still continue to be implemented because the Stranger Danger does work, it's been proven it works. On the other hand, that's 10% of the children. 10% of the abuse situations are with people who are strangers, which means by logic that 90% are people that the child is acquainted with in some form. Yes, exactly. How many of those might be family members or, you know, as opposed to say a teacher or even a coach or something like that, which we've heard of fairly recently. Exactly. So the statistics that came out in 2016 are pretty much is one out of six girls will be sexually abused before the age of 18. I'm sorry, I take that back. One out of four girls will be sexually abused before the age of 18. And one out of six boys will be sexually abused before the age of 18. And the statistics are that 80% are what, 80 to 90% are known to the child. Now, within that, it is circumposed everybody. So it could be family members, it could be within their school, their whole environment. Okay, so I have a figure here that says 30% of those known people could be family members, which does not necessarily mean mom and dad. It could be a brother or sister. It probably not. It could be a cousin or another relative. And you also have a figure of 68% of assaults are not reported, which means that 68% of the children are either too afraid or don't even know that something that's happening to them is bad, unless of course it's extremely painful. Right. As well as frightening. Yes, that is true. And how does your program, besides empowering the child, since you offer training to adults and to professionals, how does that training assist them in making it easier for a child to understand this? Because certainly there must be situations where a misunderstanding can occur. Yes. Where a simple gesture of affection, of real, honest, open affection could be interpreted by one person or another as being inappropriate. So who makes the decision? Right, right. And that's a really good question. So one of the things that we teach is, first of all, we're not accusing anybody. What we're trying to accomplish here is give the child the voice, the opportunity to start speaking up for themselves, and transferring the responsibility to the adult. And it's not anything, not anything that we're trying to say what they are. Unfortunately, the same tools that we use as loving parents, as loving aunts and friends are the same tools that a groomer would use to violate a child. It's very difficult for a child to distinguish. The only thing is that sometimes the child feels uncomfortable. It's like, I feel uncomfortable with that. And that is the point where the child should be able to say, hey, I don't like that. Right. And then it be addressed. And that person probably didn't mean any harm by it. Right, right. But because the child does not know, we want them to exercise their voice. So it's important that the person they go to, which in most cases, unless there's a family situation, it would be apparent. Honors the child's feeling, regardless of whether it makes sense. And instead of saying, oh, don't worry about it. They didn't mean anything by it. You say, okay, well, I will speak to them about this. And basically sets themselves up as a defender of the child's right to have a feeling. That's interesting. It brings up my memory of the fact that when I was a little girl, my dad, whom I adore, or I adored before he passed away, used to give me wet kisses. And I hated it. And as a result, whenever he came towards me to kiss me, I would go, ah! And he got very hurt. And I remember my mother saying, John, she just doesn't like wet kisses. So it's not personal. She just doesn't like that. Now, there was no question of abuse. In my house, it was just open-ended affection. But any child can feel uncomfortable with something that an adult has no idea they're doing. And because of that, I can also say personally that in a situation where an adult male who had me, I think I was at the age of around 11 or 12, I don't remember. And he was the son of a housekeeper. And he tried to kiss me open-mouthed on my mouth. And I kept my mouth tightly closed. And as soon as we got into the house, I took my mother's side and I told her what happened. And because of that, she just spoke to the woman and said, look, just don't do this again. Everything very polite, everything courteous. And I know that it was inappropriate. But at the time, I didn't know it was inappropriate. It was just oaky. And since I'd already reported my dad for wet sloppy kisses, I knew that my mom would back me up. So here's a perfect example, which I hadn't thought about before. Yeah, that's amazing. And so we, as parents, are probably using the screamerantel. It's just never been put in words. But it's a good thing to put it down, yeah? Yes, to put it down and to allow the child to speak up when they feel uncomfortable, right? Right. In your own personal experience, you say you were a survivor. Yes. Would this SRTEL method have helped you prevent what happened to you? Had it been around at the time? Oh, yes. I completely, completely believe that. And also, one of the things that we teach is about our language to our children, because our children hear us through the expressions on our face to our body. And so when we're doing the training for the parents, we educate them how important it is that when you speak to a child that whatever you say to them, it's already making that facial expression. And so it's really important to address the child knowing what to, how to address them so that they feel safe. So with that said, I remember in my own experiences, had I had the screamerantel method and felt courageous that I was going to be supported, I might have spoke up a lot earlier, right? Without going into more detail, may I ask if this was a family member or was it just someone you knew? Yes. Both were family members. Both. There were two different situations. So one of the statistics that's out there that I do share is that when a child has been sexually abused and they haven't gotten the treatment that they need, the chances are 50% of those will be sexually abused or violated as young adults. Wow. And one last question about a statistic. What is the age group that is most vulnerable or most likely to be abused? I think I saw something, a chart on your website, but it's not really the tiniest of children, is it? Isn't there a middle area where you have that? It's about ages between, well, nine and 12? Nine and 12. So pre-puberty or just at the edge where a young person is going into puberty but their head may not be there. Okay. All right. We're going to stop there for the moment and go to our break and then we will return with Elizabeth Lim and Scream Run Tell, which is both a book and a methodology for empowering children to prevent sexual abuse before it even happens. Thank you very much. Hi, this is Martha Randolph and the show is The Will of the People. My guest today is Elizabeth Lim, who is the author of the book Scream Run Tell and also the CEO and creator of srtell.org, where she discusses the methods and ways in which you can best help your children be prepared to recognize a potential child abuse situation and to basically speak up to keep it from happening to them. So Elizabeth, thank you for our second part. We're going to go here. I'd like to just discuss one of the percentages we noticed is that 30% of the people, the young people who are abused, and this would be between the ages of nine and 12, which is that weird time when young people, especially women, can start to get into puberty earlier than their minds are ready for, their bodies change. And ironically, historically, there are certain cultures and religions which have promoted child marriages, marriages to children of that age as soon as the women start to menstruate, which can be in that interesting time frame, but where a child is completely unprepared for the actions of sexual intercourse. So if a child is feeling that way about a family member, depending on the closeness of the family member, who can they go to if they feel no matter what you tell them, scream, run, tell that they cannot go to a parent or guardian? Who else could they turn to? And would you, do you encourage them to do that? Do you give them that other information of who else you can go to? Right, right. Well, if they're not feeling safe within their own home, because like we said, 90% is people that they do know, right? The second person they seem to go to is a teacher. Now, teachers, counselors, everybody else is mandated to report it. So it is the teacher's responsibility to report something like that. So they can go to a teacher, a counselor, whoever they feel safe to go ahead and go talk to them. Okay. So I guess it's important when you do your training that people in these professions are reminded that you are the only alternative. Yes. And that, so the scream, run, tell method is if a child comes to you, be open to that, right, speak at least neutrally so that you do not make them feel that you are dismissing their challenge. I know many adults who automatically assume that a child, especially one that maybe acts up a little bit is telling a story. Now, we know that children who act up a bit may have reasons for that acting out. Yes. So two parents or teachers who might have noticed that, again, how do you reinforce in them not to pass a judgment but to make sure that the child knows at least you can come tell me? Right. And that's so difficult, right? Because you feel like there's sometimes these children that like to tell little fibs. Our job, though, is to just be loving and caring and understanding and fostering them. You know, when a teacher gets information and she's had a couple of histories, that's what the counselor is there for, right? And she knows this child maybe needs a little more attention. She can't pinpoint it, but that's what the counselors are there for to help out in that situation if the teacher feels that she can't go to the actual caregiver, right? Because you want to protect them. So your book and your method and your training is based on some research that I believe you told me you had gotten from Harvard University. So I wonder if you can tell people a little bit about when you decided to do this, the kind of research you did, and how it figures into this. And at some point during this discussion, can I ask you guys to bring up the slide we were talking about? So let's hear about that. So Harvard is really about nurturing the child at a very, very young age. So from the time that baby is born, even before that, they've done so much study. And so what they're trying to do is help people develop programs for prevention at a very young age. And so I shared with you some of the programs that they gave when I went about two years ago and took their programs so that I could understand what would be the best way to give this information to the community so that in return that they can do it quickly for the child that they're caring for. So they have done all the studies for us on how to do it. We just have to get that information. Also, like I said in the beginning, I did the studies on why the other programs that they are teaching that have been around for 30 years, as those programs also have that same method, keep it very simple, protect the innocence of the child, train the parents and the caretakers, and then repeat it over and over again, the repetition. And why would you want to start at a very young age? Because that's when the brain is developing. And so those things will be automatically accepted. I believe you actually say in your book for parents to read the book to their children when they're even before reading age and then to have the child read the book to you. Now, there is a point where a child can get really bored and begin to resent the material. So in your own experience, how much of that do you do and where do you start? Because I'm not sure prior to one years old, I would go that far until the child has some concept of language and what words mean. Even scream, run, tell might be words they don't know yet, but once they do know them, how do you really do it that often? Or you just make it a regular pattern, like maybe once a week, every week for a certain length of time and then a break and then start again? Right. And the thing is to kind of create that habit, right? Or that repetition in the child's brain. So that is really up to the caretaker. That becomes the responsibility of the caretaker, right? If they want to do it every week or every day. I think maybe at the beginning they're going to enjoy it, especially when they're little. And as they get older, they're going to go, not that again, right? Exactly. But then the book is actually designed in a way that it creates like, well, okay, where is there? Right. So that is just opening a window to allow the child to know when and it's when you feel uncomfortable. I need to point out something that just occurred to me, which is your phrase is scream, run, tell. Now your emphasis in the book is actually tell. Yes. And then if nothing's done, scream and run because the first thing you do is tell. Yeah. You don't want to encourage your child to scream as soon as someone touches their hair. Right. And start running as if something happened. Right, right. So I don't mean to put you on the spot, but why is it scream, run, tell instead of tell, scream, run? Yeah, that's a really good question. Well, if you look at the book, it's for children. Yeah. And in every little scenario, the child, they're playing and something happens. And so the child says, you know, don't touch me there, right? Right. It's always don't touch me there. So in the sequence of the book, the child themselves tells the other person to stop. Right. So that's why we do scream. Yeah. Or basically, right? And then you go and tell the adult. Right. And, you know, and then the adult. Okay. So the scream is also tell them to stop. Yes. Exactly. You know. Yeah. So you tell the other person to stop. And that's why in the story, the little scenarios, every single scenario, the child is like, stop. I don't like that. Or don't touch me there. Besides, if a parent feels it's more rhythmically appropriate, they can always add one word in to another phrase and turn it around. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. I do want, there's only two other things I really want to cover. One is a very difficult question, which is most people who commit abuse were also the victims of abuse. We have seen this pattern. This has been known now for many, many years. They tend patterns run in families, whether it was abuse, they were abused as a child, or whether a victim of violence and physical abuse that one of the reactions a child will have, if they are experiencing something horribly painful or frightening. And if it happens continually, they will switch in their minds for survival purposes. What is an unpleasant, bad thing and turn it into this must be right. This is therefore an expression of love. Such a person is more likely to become an abuser because they will have changed the action in their minds to something that's okay and acceptable. Is there anything we can do about that? Or can you encourage people who might come to your seminar to recognize that fact and take the appropriate action? Because sometimes an aggressive reaction, as long as you're protecting your child, is not necessarily as helpful as an informed reaction. Right. Right. And when I was doing the studies about how to develop the program, I did a lot about how to understand a perpetrator or an offender. Because in order to understand them, I was able to extract things from what they were doing. And yes, a lot of times the perpetrator themselves have been sexually abused. And I have had in certain circumstances where I have met perpetrators that they themselves tell me they're horrible experiences. And then after learning about these perpetrators and learning, they pick certain age groups that they violate. So it's just a whole new subject. But the main thing is that their adults and they have had a horrible experience themselves and they can stop. Right. And that's what we want to do, is to really help for me because sex abuse is so much. There's so much about it. There's so many levels of it. That's true. Just as many levels of abuse of any kind. You can have mental abuse. You can have physical abuse. There's emotional abuse where kids or adults are put down so much that they become accustomed to it. And so I'm only taking such a small fraction of prevention. And then there's professionals. Because when it comes to that, I'm not a professional, but I know that there is help out there. And that they themselves, just because you were abused, you don't have to continue that cycle. You can break that cycle. That's true. Sometimes they may have to be reminded of how horrible the situation was. And that can require professional counseling. And it can be very traumatic, but you're right. An adult has the ability to choose what they are doing. And it's just a question of saying sometimes recognize that an abuser may not, may not know fully what they are doing and should be treated, not necessarily with respect, but with the understanding that they need help. Don't just throw them to the side of the road. They're only going to hit on someone else. Well, they'll just continue that. Continue that behavior. Right. Right. Just before we end, there might be people who are interested in buying your book or in attending a workshop or organizing a workshop. I know you have srtel.org, which ladies and gentlemen, I encourage you to go there. Perhaps they would like to get a copy of that wonderful slide you gave me, what you call the timeline. Yes. How would they go about that? How can they reach you? They can go to the website. And I think you guys also have my phone number and my email address. And the Contact Us is also on the website. Yes. And so they can go ahead and do that. And I can forward it to them and then also let them know when I'm having workshops. And as far as the book, you can actually find it on Amazon. Okay. So under the title? Yes. Under the title. All right. That's very good. So basically, they will just contact you directly and ask. And if you are having a regular workshop, they can attend it even if they were not part of the organizing group in many cases. Yes. We will be having two in April, which is Awareness Month. And one will be at the YWCA because they do help out a lot with helping me with this project. So the YWCA will be having one there. And we don't know the exact date, but it will be in April. Is that information online if they do a search? They probably won't. If we get that information, I'll try to send it here to the website and we can maybe put it up where people can find it. But do keep that in mind, ladies and gentlemen. You can look for a workshop or contact Elizabeth directly. So I think we are close to the end of our time. I want to thank you very much, Elizabeth, for coming. Ladies and gentlemen, this is a very serious problem in our country and in the state of Hawaii. And this is a great method for stopping the problem before it starts. Make sure your child knows what to do and who they can go to to make sure someone backs them up. All right. You don't have to be mean about it. You don't have to be angry. You just support your child and make sure they know they can always come to you if they're in trouble or if they just think they're in trouble. Okay. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. This was a wonderful talk. Thank you, Elizabeth. I look forward to seeing you in two weeks, I hope. And we will take up then. I'm not sure what topic, but I'm sure it's going to be interesting.