 Minister of Communications and the Digital Economy Sopantami has said he is against attempts by the federal government to introduce a 5% excise duty on telecommunications services according to him the move would impact the sector and Nigerians negatively. He disclosed this while speaking in layers at the made-in-addition of the Nigerian Telecommunications Indigenous Content Expo organized by the Nigerian Office for Developing the Indigenous Telecommunications Sector. This is an agency done this out in the Nigerian Communications Commission. He said this on Monday. He also stated that the telecommunications sector already contributes a lot to the Nigerian economy and urged the government to consider taxing other sectors of the economy that were not contributing to the national development recently the federal government announced plans to implement a 5% excise duty on telecom services at the stakeholders forum on the implementation of excise duty on telecommunications services in Nigeria. Joining us this morning is Chike Ingberdi-Chea, a senior lecturer at the School of Media and Communications at Pan-Atlantic University in Lagos. Ms. Ingberdi-Chea, good morning to you. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you for having me. Do you agree with, because I mean it's not a usual thing in the world but I mean it seems it's becoming more normal now to us in Nigeria of intergovernment, disagreement and confusion. But the ministers disagree with the federal government and do you agree with the reasons he's given and why he thinks this is a bad idea? Okay, first I think it's healthy in every government for peasants within that government to have a say in what happened in the administration. So we don't want a situation where everything the federal government says or comment from the executives or whatsoever should just be accepted hook, line and sinker. I think what the minister has said is very interesting and shows that at least to some extent there are peasants within the government that are beginning to think and then to see the significant impact of their policies and that the administration has really, really wrecked on people of Nigeria. It is shocking that at a time like this we would have a government imposing more tax and more tax on the very poor Nigerians. If you think about this critically you begin to wonder if this government is truly pro-people. I mean from their actions, from the policies and what they think about doing shows that they do not care so much about the welfare of the people in Nigeria. So I am in full support of the minister's position to go against the decision of the government to impose tax on the communication of the country, both voice and data, because there will be impact all across the economy. I mean, PMS has been increased, we know how much that has affected people and now they want to impose more tax, even if it's one percent or two or even five. It's going to affect some peasants. I mean let's come to terms and let's say the way it is there are massive, massive number of peasants living in poverty in this country. Imposing more tax is that going to take them off that poverty ladder or punch them further down the ladder? It's a question that the government would need to answer. You talked about it being healthy for a government official to air their views and to speak up and to be independent to say this is what I feel about government policy, which is good. But it seems there's a serious and worrying confusion in this current administration in the federal Republic of Nigeria and this is not the first time. We've had conflicting pieces of information being given by one agency or one head of a power state or ministry or department and then someone from another agency, ministry or department comes out to say, no, it's a different thing. And now, Panta May is saying he wasn't consulted. He wasn't invited to any meeting. And of course you remember that the Minister of Finance, Budget and National Planning, Zainab Ahmed, who had herself previously said that they were going to give money to certain categories of Nigerians to help the cushioned effects of the COVID and then the economic recession on them. And later now did a U-turn when it was realized that that money to be given out was more than what the government said it was running short of. So she's now said that they will deduct this tax. Panta May as Minister of Communications and Digital Economy says he wasn't invited for any meeting, that no memo was sent to him, nothing. He doesn't know. And that his first issue with this is that before, like he says, before you make any decision, you have to invite stakeholders to make contributions. That's what he said. So what are your thoughts on this? You know the point is this government has shown time and again that they do not understand the act of governance. It's very simple. Even if you look at it from a family perspective, as small as a family, you cannot take a decision without consulting the people who are critical stakeholders in that particular instance. So it's even mind boggling to find out that the minister is making such a proposal on behalf of the government without consulting the minister directly responsible for the sector they want to impose more tax on. It tells you how disorganized, if you may, that the government has been right from the top and to the bottom. It's shocking. This is not the first time. This is not the second time. It's just appealing, appalling rather. In fact, we are not surprised because this is not the first time, as you've mentioned. Neither is it the second. Neither, in fact, would it even be the last? We hope this would be, but we just know that a government cannot run without having a synergy amongst themselves. I can't understand how the executives can solve issues. I mean, they've got meetings. If that's a proposal coming on, it shouldn't come out. At least they should have run that through with the minister responsible for communication and digital economy. I mean, they changed the name to minister for communication and digital economy. I mean, is this the best way to build the economy of a digital space to impose more tax? I am not surprised, Nigerians aren't surprised either, but we expect better from a government that claims that they really want to help move the country forward. To be fair to Ms. Zainab Ahmed, Minister of Finance, Budget and National Planning, this 5% excise duty has been in finance according to her. This 5% excise duty has been in the Finance Act 2020. If you remember, that was an issue. And of course, it received good coverage. She says it's been in the Finance Act 2020 since, but it just had not been implemented. And she said that the delay on its implementation was as a result of government's engagement with stakeholders. The same stakeholders that Mr. Meissi were not consulted. But anyway, I hope that they will reply to him so we know who is being on us here. So if this has already been in the law, then I mean maybe it's a cry too little, too late. What do you say? Yeah, yeah, if truly that's correct. I think the government needs to understand the times. I mean, it's not been long we had increase in the PMS. We haven't yet recovered from that. We know the price of commodities in the market. And now they want to impose this. There are timing for everything. Even if it's in the act and that they have the legal right to roll this out, the time is wrong. The time is absolutely wrong. People are suffering more. Absolutely. Yeah, if it did happen in 2020, they couldn't do it in 2020 because of COVID impact. And we haven't yet recovered from it. If we do the simple check to see how many persons are going down the poverty ladder from 2020 to date, the number isn't looking good. So even if the minister says that that's been approved long ago, it's in the act, it's just for them to roll it out, this is not the right time. Why didn't they do it before, I mean for a long time, kind of ago? So in every way you look at this, never a good time at all. Never a good time at all. And I always say, I mean, the simple point they would say is that they are doing this so they can increase the revenue of the government. But what happens to the jumbo and humongous packages that they receive? Can they cut that down? Are they still on strike? People are suffering. And our government making more money, enjoying themselves, leaving flashy lifestyle. So if we all must cut down, it should go across board. In fact, it should start from them. We know that our government is the most expensive in terms of their packages. Whether you want to look at it from the executive to the legislatures, the same thing. So much money is accrued to them, but the people should pay more. I mean, they wouldn't feel a 5% excise duty increase, but the masses would. So if she's making that point, the simple point is that this is not the right time because Nigerians are going down the economic ladder. All right, then you've already gotten to the next question I was about to ask, which is about the revenue government needs to generate. We have financial cash crunch in the public sector. Indeed, these are the words of the finance minister as represented at that event where the earlier announced that they're going to impact on this move. She says it's public knowledge that our revenue cannot run our financial obligations. And so we have to shift our attention to not all revenue. I mean, it's a case of the devil in deep blue sea. Between Nigeria's government shutting down, though we don't have the shutdown we see in the United States, but in terms of not being able to meet its financial obligations and nation grinding to a halt and paying an extra 5% excise duty, which brings the tax obligations or payment by the consumers. Because the telecoms operators saying they're not going to do anything about this, the consumers will pay. This is because they already paying 39 multiple taxes in the telecom sector. The operators are already paying 39 multiple taxes. So they're saying that the consumers will ultimately pay this extra 5%, which now will mean that you and I, apart from 7.5% VAT are paying 5% extra. But between the government shutting down or having difficulty in providing infrastructure services, paying salaries and all that, and actually running as a government and us paying this extra 5%, which will you choose? Government grinding to a halt or paying an extra 5% for phone calls and data? I think that offer shouldn't even be on the table, you know. Because so let's take it simple. The government spends so much to run their affairs. So, so much. I mean, you see a governor having aides upon aides, advisors upon advisors. And these people get paid. They've all got so many, so many things around them. So, so many. So, and I hope they understand that this increase or these excise duty increase kind of, it's going to permeate into virtually all sectors of the economy. Because the hospital, every sector that uses data would have to make an increase. I mean, even down to the primary and secondary schools and even units, there will be an increase there. Hospitals, I mean, we use, I mean, hospitals use equipment and some of them use data. There will be an increase. So, however they want to look at it, there will be massive impact on the populace. But they have got to look into themselves, cut down, cut down on the, on the, on the excise and the wastages. We know how this country operates when it comes to corruption and excessive kind of payment, expenses, flying left, right, center. If they cut and close those leakages, I don't think we'll be, we'll be, we'll be placed on these, on this, on this point of picking between that and the other. Because, because truly, we've got to face it. If they want to increase, I mean, we've, we've had so much now and borrowed, and what we have can't even, can't even meet up to what we need to do. It can't even service our debt. It, it's very simple, very simple. I don't think truly that they really understand the act of taking care of a nation. If you, if you truly want to show the people that we are living in that time, it should start from you. You can't leave a fly live. You can't leave the way you want to leave. Your packages are being paid, and then you come up to tell people, we need to increase taxes here and there. It will finally come back on the people, and everyone would have to pay for it, just the same way we're paying now for the new increase in PMS. And that's it. Absolutely. So the minister knows better, but the point is that the government isn't sincere to us, you know, to ensuring that we are in this together. We are not in this together. The government is on a different line. And the people that are being governed on the other line, level of poverty, I repeat again in this country, is so much. You drive around, you see for yourself. And it's appalling that they are thinking of increasing a 5% stop on voice and data. Shocking. Interesting. You've already also again gone on to what I was about to say, which is fantastic, the effect on the economy, you know, phone calls and data, you know, the citizens will use as customers, consumers of mobile telecommunications in Nigeria will have to pay more. You've said it will affect the economy negatively. You know, someone, I think the minister talked about broadband penetration and the cost of, you know, data and, you know, the help or the effect, positive effect of this data penetration on Nigeria's economy. This data penetration and availability and, you know, the cost of data now going up, you know, you think it will affect the economy negatively in what ways you think it will affect the economy negatively. Let's look at data exclusively. And after that, you tell us how you think Nigerians should react or respond. I think it's clear. We use data and everything we're doing. In fact, our conversation right now, it's made possible due to data. And that's it. In schools, they use data. I mean primary schools even. Secondary schools, unions, hospitals, name it, the bank. Very soon we'll begin to get increased right now in service charges. Hopefully, I know, right? Because the bank will want to make profits. So for every monies, they invest in things just to provide services for you. The end users would have to pay for them. So by the time you check, I mean, almost everyone has a bank account. When they begin to take away 20 naira and increase it to 30 naira or 40 naira, who feels the crunch, you know, it's going to affect our economy and the people in this economy directly. Like I said, the government who roll out these policies don't get affected. Do they understand what it means to key up to get few? They don't because they get their fail. Some of them even in the government houses, you know, so they wouldn't understand the pain an average person is going through. And I think what we need to do as a people is to resist this. Even though we know it's gone far, but I think people should roll their voices out and speak against it. The minister has done so well to object it, to go against it. I think all we need to do is to put our voice there and support that and see where that takes us to. Because truly the government isn't there to lead people however they like. Certain people feel the crunch and we are the people who feel the crunch. They don't see they don't understand what is what is what is happening. Do they go to the markets to see the price of commodities there? For every day you go back to the market, prices increase. And now voice data increase. Now you know what that's going to happen, right? In fact, very soon you'd see the new term starts very soon. If this policy takes effect, you see an increase. Perhaps maybe a couple of thousands of Naira in some primary school tuition fees. And even the secondary schools because they would have to take care of these things. Parents would have to pay for it and it's going to be in all sectors of the economy. All sectors, absolutely. All right, we have to go but you've said it all. You've said it all and indeed seeing a minister of the federal government challenging a policy of the same government and questioning the methods of another minister makes you ask is the president really in control of his cabinet? Dr. Chike Imbaadichie is a senior lecturer, School of Media and Communications at the Pan-Atlantic University. Thank you very much for your time this morning. Thank you Kofi, thank you for having me. All right, all right. And that's the size of our package today. We'll watch this space definitely and follow this story right here on the breakfast. For more you can follow us on social media on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram at PlusTVAfrica on YouTube, PlusTVAfrica and PlusTVAfrica lifestyle. My name is Kofi Bertels. Good morning.