 Hi, this is Debbie Daschinger. Welcome to Dare to Dream. This show is sponsored by Dr. Dane Here and Access Consciousness. They do amazing energy work out into the world. If you would like to become a facilitator or get one of their products or learn more or go to one of their programs, go to drdanehere.com or accessconsciousness.com. This show has been nominated for two People's Choice Podcast Awards and for a Webby Award and we are listed in Welp Magazine as one of the top 20 best podcasts to listen to this year. I'm Debbie Daschinger and I teach entrepreneurs, speakers, coaches and spiritual folks how to write a highly engaging book. I do this through groups who meet twice a month on Zoom from anywhere in the world as well as private sessions. I've also got a company that takes author's books to a guaranteed international bestselling status. And last, I teach you how to be interviewed on podcasts and radio shows for massive results. Since it is definitely time on this planet for you to get your message out there and be visible, I urge you to go get my free gift which will teach you how right now. Go to debbiedaschinger.com slash gift. That's D-E-B-B-I-D-A-C-H-I-N-G-E-R dot com slash gift. My present to you. And today's conversation is going to be about spiritual wisdom on spirit animals. My guest today is Dr. Steven Farmer who's a licensed psychotherapist, soul healer, and author of several bestselling books and oracle cards including animal spirit guides, earth magic, earth magic oracle cards, children's spirit animal cards, healing ancestral karma, and the recently released book animals, personal tales of encounters with spirit animals and the oracle cards, Shaman's Path. And if you would like to learn more about him, go to drstevenfarmer.com. And I welcome Dr. Farmer to the show. It's so great to have you. Thanks Debbie. It's good to be here too. We enjoyed our conversation before we started. Me as well. And you know something. I don't know if you've gotten this before, but when I was researching you and looking into you, I just kept thinking it's so amazing, all this beautiful work you've done around animals with the oracle cards and the writing, and that you would have the last name Farmer. Don't you think that's kind of kismet? I think there's something to it. You know, Farmer triple earth sign. I'm from Iowa, the Midwest, you know, so it all adds together. And Capricorn's my son sign, so it's an earth, yeah. It's a lot of work, so to speak, with the earth, you know, or earth-related topics. So yeah, yeah, it is. I never thought about that in that way, but yeah, there is a certain, what'd you say, kismet, I think. Kismet. Yeah, yeah. It's an alignment to who you are and what you're doing for sure. And as I shared with you before we started, I was aware of you before because I bought my boyfriend, your books and your oracle cards. And so I've been familiar with your work and excited about your work to get to know you. Your latest book, which is Common Sentience Book Series, and the book is Animals, Personal Tales, Encounters with Spirit Animals. So what is the phrase Common Sentience refer to? I know for someone like me, I'm a clair sentient, so I understand that is a feeling. I get feelings. I get information that way. How does it mean pertaining to your book when you use the phrase Common Sentience? It's actually the publisher's idea to develop a series of books along the lines of mystical, magical, spiritual, whatever word you choose, different topics that not only would there be a featured author, which I'm really the featured author. I didn't write the whole book. I wrote the front end, the back end, and contributed a couple stories. But I think the unique part of the series is that the next one I believe is out already. There's about, I think, eight in the series, and that's Common Sentience meditation, and then there's ancestors, and then there's sound, and it goes on like that. So she's releasing one book, I think it's about once every few weeks, you know, one of the other topical books in that series shows up. This was the lead book, meaning this is the one that came out first. And the title, Animals, Personal Tales of Encounters with Spirit Animals, really says it all. Not only do I have a couple of my stories in there, and some teaching about spirit animals, and what that really means, and other ways of defining that, and also making contact with spirit animals. And receiving messages, like you mentioned, your partner, you know, has some of the earlier Oracle cars, as well as the book, Animal Spirit Guides. The unique feature, though, Debbie, is that other people have contributed their stories, which I think is so cool. What a brilliant idea, so that it's filled with, I believe, somewhere around the neighborhood about 25 stories. Every time I count, it's a little different number, but it's around 25 stories. And they're really pretty, some pretty amazing tales in there, and their actual experiences that people have had with spirit animals, in some way or another. So I have the blessed honor, you know, of being able to introduce this book, add my, you know, my information, what I understand about spirit animals, et cetera, as the featured author, but also share it with other people who have made their contributions, just wonderful, wonderful contributions of stories, some that will move you, that will possibly bring tears to your eyes. Simple tales, Crow, a whale, or a wolf, you know, just one in there was just the, that this writer kept putting out that she wanted to see a real-life wolf at some time. So it's a story of how she happened to, shall we say, manifest that. She was able to, it was just her delight, you know, a real simple tale, but yeah. And she was able to go beyond just the sighting of the physical wolf, but understand also the spirit of wolf. So that's the gist of the series, and more will be coming out, you know, over the next several months. But I had the honor of this particular book, I want to say my book, but it's our book, you know, being introduced to the public. Yeah, that's an amazing story. And it reminds me, you know, I was, I'm not so much anymore, but for, since I was a child, I was just sort of obsessed with monkeys. I loved them. And I wanted, the older I got, the more I wanted, I just wanted to meet a monkey. And I would tell people, if you want to do anything for my birthday, have a party. And there's just me and monkeys, like that would be amazing. And it never happened. And you know, my first book was coming out and it was about creating dreams. And I felt, you know, I felt so complete, but bereft about the monkey. I thought, you know, how do I create this dream? And it's amazing how when you really open at that level, I had a woman who stepped in and said, you know, I know someone who runs this wildlife refuge, I'll talk to him. And his fate would have it. He ended up without being asked, he shut down the entire refuge for me and allowed me to come in and spend the day there with a kangaroo, a couple of monkeys, like it just was on and on with someone taking photos of the whole experience. It filled my heart so much to sit in a chair and hold this monkey and look at its face and, you know, just think it's been so long I've been wanting to meet you and here you are. So I understand what that feels like and what this author of this anthology or compilation book you're talking about went through when she wanted to meet a wolf and what that meant to her to finally have that happen. It's beautiful. And wolves are amazing. I've met them before. Yeah. Yeah. Same here. And I mean, animals are amazing, you know, from the smallest to the largest animal, they're just amazing. And I think that what we I think have unfortunately has happened to a large part, let me think how to say this, this sense of alienation from animals, especially the wild animals, because we've forgotten the wildness in ourselves, even though, guess what, speaking of monkeys, we're in a monkey body, you know, we function just like other mammals in the way we take food in, we eliminate, you know, we perspire, there's all these similarities. And I think that when you remember that that as a human being that you're a human animal, and somewhere 200, 250,000 years ago, there was an ape that got up and walked on two feet and continued walking on two feet. How did that happen? We don't know. Maybe he was infused with something from the cosmos or something like that. You know, it depends on who you talk to about that. But the point being is that we are animals. And so once I think we realize that, then I think we start to see animals in a different way. I mean, when did your really strong connection with animals start, Steven? Was it always there, or did something happen that's a reference point in your history that just changed everything? Well, there's there's two angles to respond to with that question, Debbie. It's a really good question. One is, yeah, I've always loved animals, you know, we've had back when I was raised in Iowa, I mentioned that. And up till about age 12, we always had animals, cats, dogs. There's a story, a family story of Andy, this mixed dog that used to wander away. And when I was about four or five, I guess I'd wander away with him, you know, following down the street, they'd go, where is Steven? We don't know where he is, that sort of thing. And then off and on throughout my life, I've had animals as I met, like right now, for instance, a good example, I mentioned I've got two dogs here. We're in a fairly suburban, well, fairly it is a suburban neighborhood, not a big plot of land, but we got two dogs, two cats, two desert tortoises, and two chickens. How's that? That's awesome. We used to have rabbits too. But, you know, there was a disease that went around and unfortunately killed both of the remaining rabbits. But, you know, there's talk about getting a couple more, if we just maybe get a little bigger plot of land that might work very well. But, you know, so it's great to be surrounded by these beings. They're the dogs and cats, of course, are very domesticated desert tortoises. I mentioned something to a friend about how I love desert tortoises. Used to have one called Tootsie many years ago. Tootsie the tortoise, when my girls were young, I've got two adult daughters. And when they were really young, we had a, they named the tortoise Tootsie, well, they called him Turtle, but same idea. And they're hibernating right now. It's so fascinating. They've been with us about three years to watch the cycle that goes on with them. And you can't, they're not cuddly, you know, of course, they're reptiles. But they, at the same time, they're fascinating. And you think tortoises move slow, right? You think, well, they do lumbar along, you know, which is true. But I swear to God, I would go out the back door looking for one of them and with, and be there, there he is. And then I go inside for some lettuce or something to feed him. And then I look and they're over the side of the house, you know, he's going to the house later. So I think there's a little bit of mythology with the fact that tortoises are slow. You know, this guy was scooping along. So yeah, I've always loved animals. And then when I was, I'm a licensed psychotherapist in California, and have been for quite a few years, and successful practice and all that, then something happened, which is I heard the call to shamanism. Oh, now you're speaking my language, go for it. We're getting there, Debbie, we're getting there. And so my partner at the time gave me a book called Way of the Shaman by Michael Harner. I went, yeah, okay, I went and did that two day workshop, you know, which is not about becoming a shaman, and you don't become a shaman. That's not, there's a little different way of languaging that. Anyway, I took, you know, the, the practice was going well. I did some good work, you know, I must say, and something was like nagging me, you know, like, okay, there's something more. And this book was handed to me, I took the two day course I shot out of there, and said, this is it, you know, I need to take some more training, you know, understand this more, maybe weave it into my work, you know, my work with clients and workshops and things like that. Anyway, the point being is it led to, I wrote four books as a therapist, one of which has been revised and re-edited 25th anniversary edition, the very first book I wrote. I didn't write or publish anything for a number of years. Then as I evolved in shamanism, shamanic practice, basically retired my therapy practice and went, you know, all the way into shamanic healing. And I consider myself not a shaman, but a shamanic healer or shamanic practitioner. Anyway, so I started writing in that genre. The mission was to write about topics that are related to shamanism, but not exclusively. Example, the first book in the series is Sacred Ceremony. That has a broad swath, you know, across various religions, practices, spiritual practices, et cetera, ceremony. And that was a real, it's a really good book, you know, all false humility aside. It's a really good book. And then one thing led to another. I was really intrigued about writing about spirit animals. And that's kind of a long tail to get to that point. But I started writing and publishing books and oracle cards that are related to spirit animals. The first one being a book called Power Animals. And then the next one being Animal Spirit Guys, which is like 200 plus ideas about if you see an animal in an unusual way, et cetera, then it's possible that the spirit of that collective consciousness of that animal is trying to reach you. Because we, once you open yourself to guidance, it's not just animals. You know, there's other ways that we receive guidance. But I got to tell you, Debbie, in my experience, it's one of the most accessible is through the animals. Can you tell a story about that, a personal story about how you found an animal spirit guide and any way that you might have honored that spirit animal or communicated with it? Sure. The boy has been, I've got a few stories. I have to like pick one off the shelf here. In shamanism or shamanic practice, typically the practitioner or the shaman, but the practitioner has a relationship with a specific spirit animal that is typically embodied in the physical in the world as well. So when I did this two day course, the initial course, one of the things that we did is pair up. And he led us through a shamanic journey. One person of the pair would then go and find that particular spirit animal that's called a power animal. And that word is a type of spirit animal that the practitioner will employ in their shamanic work. An example would be what my partner found for me and sort of the best way I could say is installed this particular spirit animal was wolf, just like we were talking about. I confess I, you know, my occasional arrogance, I guess I would say that when he brought it back and said, oh, it's wolf, you know, I had this initial reaction like wolf, that's too common, you know, how about something more, you know, like Badger or something. Yeah. Anyway, but what is proven, this is, we're talking 27 and 28 years ago, what has proven to be, and thank you wolf, that he has been, I'm talking about the spirit animal, not the physical animal, that he has been an amazing guardian, an amazing protector. I know weird way, you know, which is some of this stuff is weird to, you know, a lot of people, but in a weird way, I always feel safe. You know, my sense is he's always around whether I'm consciously aware of his presence or not. And that's wolf spirit. And in this case, it's a power animal. That's a little different than let's say an animal spirit guy. An animal spirit guy is like, well, my 25 words or less criteria is when an animal shows up in an unusual way and or repeatedly in a short space of time, like, like a synchronistic or omens or things like that that appear, you know, consistently or more than a couple of times. And when you spot an animal like that, something big is going on, you're not just seeing, let's say that dolphin that's tracking you as you walk along the beach. Yes, there's a physical dolphin. Yes, that dolphin has a life force that we could call their spirit, but there's something also going on when you open your consciousness to that is that possibly that dolphin, because it's unusual to be tracked by the dolphin, especially close in the shore, maybe just maybe that there's something bigger. I know there is, you know, going on. And that's that the, you could say the collective consciousness of all dolphins are concentrated. So great spirit, or you if you want God or universe or, you know, whatever you want to call back called great spirit is sort of channeling through that collective consciousness to this physical being to come to you to say, okay, Stephen, here's a message for you, you know, see if you can figure it out. So going back to go ahead and it's so easy now, because this happened recently, there is a woman who's going to start working with me, I help people with visibility in their books and getting out there being interviewed and she's, you know, someone who's doing very well in her life right now and I'm very excited to work with her. And as we're doing this free consult zoom, all of a sudden she lives in Arizona and she looks down and she goes, this is crazy. There's a road runner right outside of the window and she said, Debbie, I don't know if you realize, you know, you watch that cartoon Mimi road runner, but she said it's actually, it's almost an anomaly. It's so rare. First of all, they're so fast and it's so rare, but it is sitting outside the window this whole time we're talking. So she was kind enough to take a picture with her phone and send it to me. I've never seen one and I couldn't help, you know, to your point, it's so easy today to look these things up or grab one of Dr. Stephen Farmer's books and look up, what does that mean? And of course, it was completely relevant. And what I loved, it made her feel like, oh, I'm totally supposed to work with you. If I'm seeing a road runner, that is a real sign. And that's a beautiful way you can make a decision based on the influence of a power or a spirit guide animal. Yeah, yeah. That's the beauty of it. There's other ways to get messages. It's not, you know, the only way. Otherwise, I'd be, I will be fundamentalist about it. There's other ways. You know, some people work with angels. Some people work with ancestors. You know, that's another influence that kind of pulled me into publishing the book about ancestors, including Oracle cards. However, what I would say, Debbie, about even though unusual to see a physical road runner, it could have been in a symbolic form, like an image or a picture you took on TV. And there is the, there is the cartoon of the road, you know, whatever, especially if it's repetitive. So you, I want to say I want to address one part of your question too, it's related to the give back. I think there's a wonderful book called Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer. I've read it, it's gotten, it's a really fairly popular book, but what a beautiful writing it is. She's a Native American, as well as a biologist. So she's got both the science and the indigenous approaches to this. And she used a term that I rarely heard before, reciprocity. And I love words anyway, but reciprocity, it makes sense. Take your breathing, for example, there's a reciprocity taking place every time you breathe. You know, we breathe in the oxygen that plants and trees give us and we give back something that they utilize in this ever going, ongoing process, as long as we're alive. Specifically with animals or spirit animals, even more specifically, that's one of the things I teach is that, yeah, as you start to see the value in this and you get impressions from, let's say, a road runner, you know, sitting outside your window. Thank you. Thank you spirit of road runner. And what about giving something back to the animal kingdom, you know, in that exchange or that reciprocity, whatever it is, you know, taking care of dogs, cats, taking care of desert tortoises that are given to you, taking care, donating money, time, energy, etc. prayers, you know, to the animals, especially humane society, the U.S. I donate a certain portion of my royalties from a couple of the books to about three different organizations that I've checked out, Oceana Humane Society, the U.S. and Defenders of Wildlife that, you know, is trying to save the wolves, you know, from going extinct. So there's that reciprocity, being kind to animals in some way. I think that's an important aspect too to working with spirit animals and animal spirit guides. I'm right there with you. So powerful. That's always for me tithing. It's always the place where I want to give my money. And I also give a percentage of my books to animal organizations. They're important to me. Yeah. And just to go down a little bit more, I first wanted to say thank you for your distinction around the shamanism, because in today's languaging, and especially because plant medicine is so prevalent, many people claim I'm a shaman. And that just ain't so. A shaman is someone who became so by virtue of their lineage. It was their soul's agreement to come into this life form. And from grandmother to all the way down to granddaughter and so forth, they are bequeathed this information, but it's also inherent in their DNA as same for the men. And so a lot of people just because of plant medicine or whatever they I went to Peru for a while, and then they're giving out medicine to people in these circles, they're called shamans. And, and I'm always moved when somebody is aware enough, not even humble, but really aware enough to understand the difference. And so you're you are you do shamanic healing practices. And does that include soul retrieval? What does that include? Oh, well, there's there's hands on sort of like energy healing. That's a possibility. I mean, a number of possibilities. When I was trained, like I said, I shot out of that two day course saying more, more, more, you know, so I started grabbing up different kind of trainings, Celtic, Tibetan. So it was nice to see the parallels, which is what Harner's idea was in creating what he called core core shamanism, from his experiences to actually in the rainforest and one of those being plant medicine, you know, where he was given visions and such like that. So there are, I would say, essentially three practices that are that are very common cross culturally with any culture that has what we would call a shaman shaman. The word shaman is really from the Tungus people in Siberia. So each culture and language will have a different name for that. Curandera comes to mind, you know, in Southern California, Curandero or Curandera. But you're right. I think it's gotten saturated and I will call an opinion, not really a judgment, because there's no real load on it. People are going to do what they do, you know, okay, so be it. But I am of the persuasion that like you articulated very well, Debbie, is going to Peru and, you know, drinking the brew, ayahuasca, or going out in the desert and taking some mushrooms or something, it doesn't make you a shaman. It's not an ambition. You know, it's not something that you go, oh, Sunday, I want to grow up and be a shaman. No, no, no, no. You're called to do the work in some way, but us in the Western culture, we're not familiar with that sort of thing. We've grown up in that lineage typically. I think we all have it if we go way back, you know, to tribal days or when we in our lineage even, you know, from a long time ago, the Celts, you know, Irish, you know, Irish, English, UK, kind of that area. And I actually met an ancestor, you know, I can't remember, it's been a long time in a journey who was a what we would call a shaman. But the interesting thing is most people in indigenous communities, they don't even call themselves whatever the language is a shaman. I remember a friend of mine was telling me about that when she went down to Peru and worked with a shaman. And he never called himself a shaman in the language in Castiano Spanish, I guess is what happened. They speak in or the native or the indigenous language. She said it really beautifully. He said, yeah, all he would do is he say, I just pour a little, you know, very humble about the whole thing. And yet having considerable gifts of healing. So back to circling back to your question, yeah, soul retrieval, power animal retrieval, like I was mentioning earlier, and extraction and very briefly, soul retrieval. The premise is, is that throughout our life, there's a chance that we are going to either lose one of three souls, or a soul fragment, depending on who you talk to and what system, you know, they're working with. A friend of mine, he talks about the underworld soul, the middle world soul, and the upper world soul. That's not how I work or how I've been trained. My training is more that there's a good chance that like a fragment or a piece of the soul will leave under duress, strain, trauma, and may come back, you know, pretty quickly, or might hang out for a while in non-ordinary reality. So the practitioner's job is to, with the help of his guys, which are typically one or more power animals, will travel to where that soul is and persuade them to come back and then in a sense sort of install that soul fragment back to the person. It's really a miraculous healing. It is. I'm going to testify. I've had it done twice. I've worked with it many years ago, probably over a decade ago, and it was so profound. I have to say, you know, we're not aware that in the puzzle that makes us who we are, that a piece of trauma, when we were two, extracted this piece, but I have to say that piece that got extracted actually influences everything. It was so powerful. And I remember this woman saying, you know, you're going to lay there for, it's the best of my memory. You're going to lay there for a certain amount of time. I'm going to do my work, we'll reconnect. And when she came back and told me what she found, like, how is that possible? It was miraculous. And then when she reintegrated those parts of myself, I came back out into life and was very different every time I worked with her. So, you know, if anyone has a chance to work with you, I highly recommend it. It's beautiful that you do that. Yeah, it's, I think it's a very profound shamanic practice that, fortunately, many people have been taught, you know, how to do this. And by your own testimony, it has an amazing impact. As the soul piece integrates, you know, things start shifting and changing in your life. Yeah. And I believe it's the direct influence of that aspect being reintegrated into your overall soul. So that's a significant power animal, straightforward. You know, the shamanic, the practitioner goes into this area, an unordinary reality, and then seeks out that spirit animal that could keep showing up repeatedly. And the, the premise is, is that when they show up that often, you know, typically three or four times during the journey, that's the person's power animal, so you bring it back and again install it. The third one is, I think very intriguing, and it's called shamanic extraction. Yeah, what's that about? The premise is, is that um, through a couple of, from a couple of different reasons, we may have, let's say a some psychic junk, you know, in our body that's attached to our soul. That can come from, let's say, obsessive thinking. You know, example would be, oh, my stomach, I got to look into this, there's something wrong with my stomach, there's something wrong with my stomach, and you know the power of words in our mental processes, so that if that's obsessed enough about, then eventually it develops sort of a collection of energy, you could say. Harder called it spiritual intrusion, or psychic intrusion. Another way, and this is where it gets even more interesting, is it could come from an external source. Hmm. Let's say somebody, for whatever reason, rages at you. They're not even that they're really powerful, but you're in a vulnerable place for whatever reason, really open to this person, and suddenly this happened to me, so I can, I have a testimony on this. If they like rage, not just like say, you know, I'm angry with you, or, yeah, I'm really pissed off. No, no. I don't even want to do this in your direction, but just if they really rage, there is an energy to it that can get into your soul body, or physical body in your soul body, and attach itself, so to speak, to your soul body, and hang out there. And then you walk away from there, not only feeling blown away, you know, just mentally and emotionally, but possibly something is with you that's left over from that rage. I had a brief story, as I had a client, a family, I was working with mom, step dad, and a daughter, 15-year-old daughter, so I was, I'd worked with them for some time. I saw the mom, and she told me something about her daughter, that she said, just keep it between me and you. And I went, okay. And then I saw the couple together. I saw the girl, and I saw the couple together. And what happened is I stupidly let slip what she had told me about the daughter, some trouble, or something like that. And I got to tell you, it was like all of a sudden, this demon showed up in the form of this woman, you know, the metaphor. But she just like, you know, what do they say, cut me a new one, you know, that kind of thing. And just all this energy, I felt it. I felt it going to my gut. Here's what I did, though. I called a shamanic colleague, you know, somebody that I knew did some good work, and said, I didn't exactly say it was an emergency, but I said, but this is what happened, you know, I need your help. So she came over and did this extraction, and she was able to pull out this, that's what I'd say, this psychic energy, or this spiritual intrusion that was resolved, and cleaned it up right away and disposed of it properly. It's pretty amazing. I think we do carry around where we can, I should say, potentially carry around that sort of thing, where it's a spiritual intrusion that maybe was given to us, you know, years ago, but we're still carrying it around. Harder, Michael Harder, who I mentioned, Wayla Shaman, his experience or what he believed is that every illness has a spiritual causality. That's a broad, sweeping statement, but you know, I think there's something to it. You get an intrusion like that. Let's say that what I just described is very possible that something would happen that the body would reorganize itself due to the intrusion, so that it would become an illness of sorts, whether it's an emotional illness, a physical illness, or I'm not sure you could say spiritual illness, but definitely a physical or an emotional illness. Did you feel a big difference after your colleague came over and did this extraction on you? Yes. She actually had, she's very visual too, she had a visual of it. I don't, when I've done that kind of work, I don't know, I get more, I'm like you, Claire Sentian, I more feel things, but she said it was like a long, thick, kind of tapering, wormy kind of an image that she saw, and that was really what was for her, to be able to see something. You know, for me it's like I can feel it when I've done extraction work. So that's the three main ways of working with, the other is just ceremony. You know, I'll send people out that I work with and give them protocols for certain ceremonies, whole moons coming up, great time to do ceremonies, you know, especially ceremonies of honoring fulfillment, of release, you know, getting ready to release something. There's, to work with that, that moon, it's more than a metaphor, but I'm going to call it a metaphor. It's like the breath in, full, and then releasing and letting go. And it's also a good time to honor, you know, what has your achievements, your successes, you know, what has manifested, etc. Where the new moon, dark moon, the new moon is a time to set your intentions. So the grandmother moon is able to participate in the process of the release and or the fulfillment. Oh, Stephen. Okay. So I just want people to know, like, I get this feeling in my belly. And so I'm going somewhere here. I want them to understand you have a lot of modalities that you offer. You're, you're being a seeker and you're hunger for all these things has led you to a license and psychotherapy, somatic therapy, hypnotherapy, shamanic healing, EMDR, EFT tapping, huge fan over here, Oracle card readings. So I recently saw on your website that you have an event coming up. I have a feeling you do these quite often. And actually I would go, except I'm doing, I'm offering a workshop. I've got a band and we do sound bath and healing events. I'm a singer. And so I can't because it's a conflict. But would you tell people who may be interested about your upcoming events and Joshua tree? Yeah, actually, yes, I'll tell people and let you know that it's filled. And we're up to a waiting list now. And I think Debbie part of it is because of the pandemic and the, you know, having to sequester and all this stuff, the craziness that went along with it, mass, no mass vaccination, all that stuff. I think everybody's pretty tired of it. You know, and so I, there's three events that are actually coming up that where it's actually in person and not on zoom. Oh, yeah, what a concept. Oh, okay, let's give it a shot here. Let's see what happens. That one is Joshua tree, a colleague and dear friend of mine, Marissa Ryan, who's a very gifted medium psychic. We've done this in the past, probably about four times, maybe five times. It's okay. So you like that. And I'm about Marissa, my great dog. Anyway, so it's, it's filled. We limit, we had to cap it at 26 for various reasons. Scout, no, no bark. You're going to go outside. Do you do that again? Just whisper. Okay. Anyway, so that's coming up. That's in just a few days. And then there's an event in Sedona that I highly recommend I'm participating in. It's called the gathering of shamans. I don't have the date right in my head, but it's coming up in about, I think in about two, two and a half months or so. This is a year, an annual event that we had to do online, you know, for one of the years. But now this is going to be in person in Sedona at the Mongo retreat center, which is a beautiful, beautiful center. The headliners, you know, the draw is Don Miguel Ruiz and his two sons. Yeah, Jose. Yeah, Jose and Miguel. And then Heather Ashomara, who I'm an admirer of her. She's, she's really, she's cool. And myself and a few others can't recall it. Who else is there? But it's really, it's a really neat event, you know, and I'm really looking forward to it partly because I love Sedona, especially we're away from the town, you know, we're out a little bit in the sticks and this beautiful retreat center. And then third, and this is something people will look at my website to find all this information if they want. It's my name, DrStevenFarmer.com. I am just setting up, we're just finalizing the details. I am so excited. It's a river trip where we do like workshop stuff. Me and again, another colleague and friend, Jeanette Dames, who's again a gifted psychic, that we've done this in the past about three or four times, I think, always been great. She's a former river guide, you know, so she's, she's got the ropes on it, plus we hired a company, et cetera, and it'd be an opportunity to be outdoors for like five days in the relative wilderness, you know, with some very trusted guides who are taking us on the river. So that's available coming up. And who knows what else, you know, there's some other goodies that'll be happening as we kind of break open the, the champagne, you know, and celebrate that we can get together like this. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. The energy of your event just sounded amazing. And of course, kudos to you. If I felt that, that's why it's full. I think resonated too. Yeah. So it's one of my favorite places in the world, too. It's only a couple hours from where you are, as well as where I am in Jane a point. Yeah. I think you're holding your event in the same place where Dr. Alberto Voloto does his shamanic training every year. So I was familiar when I, I looked at the workshop space. Yeah. Very, I mean, I love the desert, you know, the desert is, it's just magical and mystical. So I want to, I want to flip to the Oracle cards if you don't mind, because you have these ancestral ancestors, Oracle cards. And I would love to pick a card for everybody who's watching and everybody who's listening, that they may receive a message with the intention that the messages for us, you and I, and for them, exactly what we need to hear right now. Pay attention to, take action on, heed of. Love to. A reminder of all of that. Yeah. And again, I want to say something about these. This just came out to, I think about six weeks ago, and added to the other Oracle cards, power animal Oracle cards. There's even a really cool one called children's spirit animals, because it's nice to get children introduced to this idea and a way of working with animals at a fairly young age. So they've been really successful too, which I'm really happy about. These, I want to do a little spiel on how they're constructed, because how do you do Oracle cards for ancestors? What do you do, grandma and grandpa? What do you do? So a lot of this information was downloaded as to how to construct these. And so there's four categories of ancestors going all the way back billions of years. So the first category is called the master ancestor DNA. The second category is primordial ancestors, earth, air, fire, and water. Think about it. That's what all of this is made of earth, air, fire, and water. The third category is what I've deemed prehistoric ancestors. Animals, plants, minerals, and the fourth category is one that was developed as archetypal ancestors. For instance, writer. You know, it might be a specific writer that you have in mind. You don't need to be biologically related to that writer, or it may be more of a generic ancestor, the writer. Dog just left one of them. I think the other one was scratching at the door. Hey, it's dinner time. Just a minute, boys. So yeah, I just want to give a little bit of a background of the construction. So I don't know who's going to show up here, but he has you requested. Sure, Debbie. Let's pull a card here. Ancestors, thank you for your blessings. Thank you for your taking care of us, for reminding us, for guiding us, whether we're consciously aware of it or not at all times. And I thank you for a message that's going to be useful, helpful healing in some way for all of the good people that are listening to this program, to this podcast. And thank you for the blessings that you bring to our lives and how you encircle us in so many different ways, and that we may be more consciously aware of your presence and your influence at all times and be able to honor you appropriately. Thank you for, through this vehicle, delivering that message. It's going to be helpful for others. Let's see what we got here. Hmm. Okay. Here's, this is mentor. And if you look in the, what it would be the up in the corner there, it says coach. And notice the image too. Got a couple of people of gray hair and dark hair. Obviously, one is the mentor to the other and envisioning this area of wilderness, the lake and the mountains, et cetera. So there's also, I'm not going to read it, but in the guidebook, there's a more extended message. But what I'd want you all to do is just take a look at this and see what relevance you might find in it. It could be anything. It could be the mountains grab a hold of you, grab your attention. Oh, it's time to go to the mountains. It could be anything that is even obliquely related to the theme mentor or the ancestor mentor and the theme coach. That's really important to know. It's just like spirit animals, you know, you can look up the meaning, you know, or you can ask the spirit animal, what's the message, you know, and you may get something completely unrelated, you know, like the road runner, you know, he may say, all right, it's time to sell your car, you know, or something that's kind of a silly example, but has nothing to do with the attributes of the road runner. So this is a way to view any Oracle cards, you know, and there's a ton of them out there, you know, you just got to figure out what's the one that's going to really speak to you. So what this is saying, here's what I get in addition to what I've just said, Debbie, that what it is is that I'm not sure if it's all of you who are listening to this, I would hesitate to say everyone because some people may have a different sense of this, but a strong sense I get of this for many of you who are listening is, yeah, seek out a mentor, you know, it's time. We're wandering through a really challenging time, needless to say right now. So the mentor, I'm talking about a human mentor, somebody who's has a greater wisdom just by the fact of being on the planet and also is in alignment to some degree with your own spiritual practices, your own spiritual promptings, callings, etc. We all need a little, we need that guidance, you know, I really, and I say need intentionally, not just want it or think it's a good idea, but I think we need that kind of guidance, somebody to lean on. I've had the good fortune as I look back in my life of, you know, at least three very significant mentors. Just, I remember a fella that this always brings up a little emotion for me, a man, an older man, now I am an older man, but at that time, an older man when I was broken, you know, when I was dis-spirited, that's a good name. Paul Fairweather. How could you go wrong with somebody named Fairweather? But one time I came in, I remember Paul, just a sweet, very strong individual, and I came in one time and feeling a little embarrassed, I said, you know, Paul, I'm regrouping after, I think it was a divorce and, you know, this and that, whatever, to change in my life, you know, that era. And I said, Paul, I got to apologize to you, I started by, I can't pay you this week. And he looked at me, you know, and he's got this kind of very fierce look to him. And he looked right at me, he said, that's okay, Stephen, I believe in you. And I tell you, it just, like I say, it still brings up some emotion now, that there's somebody, an older man, someone I consider a man of wisdom, and he believes in me when I don't believe in myself. It was really, and it was really slowly as we became a parent, it was a significant turning point. Who goes there? Every important point the dog shows up to make sure we get the point. Yeah, right, exclamation point, exclamation point, you know, scratching at the door. So that's my take on that particular ancestor coming up, you know, and maybe somebody you already know, or just put out the intention, you know, if this speaks to you, you know, if this resonates with you, then yeah, act on it. Too many of us, I think, and I've been there myself is thinking, well, I have to do it myself. You know, I'm the lone wolf, so to speak, and I'll figure all this stuff out. Maybe somebody just to bounce things off with, you know, an older man or an older woman that, you know, has that, those years of wisdom. Excuse me one second. Absolutely. Welcome, welcome to our show, puppies. All animals are welcome here. All animals are friends. Just scout had to go check it out. I think the yellow ones out there, too. Paul, I got to ask you because I heard you say this elsewhere, and in my life and style, it's pretty meaningful. Man, you play the didgeridoo? What tell me about music in your life? Oh my God. What can I say, you know, it's if you live closer, I'd have you join our band. We have a very, well, medicine is music as medicine band. You'd be like perfect. Maybe I'll show up one of these. We'll have to make arrangements. I love it. I'm a little bit out of practice with it, but yeah, I love the didgeridoo. I've got one four in here and three out there. I went crazy, you know, at one time, it's like, I was in Australia, I got one there, and then the next time I went, I got one there, and I got one locally. There was a didgeridoo store here. A didgeridoo is an ancient Australian instrument that's just basically a hollow tune, but it makes these, as you well know, you know, it makes these that droning sound. And it really, what people don't know about the didge is that it's actually a rhythm instrument, but it has tones too. But the foundation is rhythm. So yeah, I do that. I've written some songs. I play guitar. I've got what I think are, you know, out of the songs I've written, I'd take probably about seven or eight of them that I'd go, I'm happy with those. And I'm a child of the 60s. So some of my heroes are those wordsmiths, like, you know, young, and a few others that I just am amazed that they can put words together like that. And I'm a wordsmith, you know, in a different way. My art is my words, you know, more so than drawing, you know, stick figures. I do. Yeah. But yes, Scout. Look who's here. He's crying, but he doesn't see love. He just needs some loves. Anyway, so yeah, there's that occasionally the flute, although I'm not real big on the flute, but mostly the guitar singing. And you're, you're a singer. So I'd probably be a little embarrassed to sing in front of you because you're a professional, you know, but not really. That's, that's baloney. I just love singing. I love playing the music. I love the songs I play, Tom Petty, the Stones, the Beatles, you know, just admire the Beatles I read and listen to audible and just about anything about the Beatles because what a fascinating phenomena really more than a musical group. You know, they were a phenomena. So yeah, music is the breath of life in a way. Yeah, it is. It is, it is a healing modality unto itself. The vibration, the frequency, all the beautiful words you've been saying throughout our conversation also really apply to music. So yeah, I may have to hold you to that gathering at some point. Yeah, let me know if you don't have, I'm happy to, or makes not that far. Like I said, it's put in perspective. It's kind of in the neighborhood. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So yeah, very exciting. So many things in common and you could bring your dogs too, which is great. All dogs are friends to our dogs. I want to just ask you about the healing spirits that assist you. So I've got a quote from you, which is, I firmly believe that all emotional, physical and mental disturbances and illness have their foundation as a spiritual cause. To treat these conditions, I work with my helping spirits to facilitate healing at a soul level, which is why I also call my healing services, soul healing. Can you talk about, I don't know if you can articulate this, about the healing spirits that assist you and thereby assist your clients? Sure. The two that come to mind immediately, one is actually an immense event prior to my receiving a wolf as a power animal. We did this process. I had no idea at that time about spirit animals and shamanism, you know, maybe a little bit, but not much. And in this men's event, he led us through a meditation where a specific animal would come to you. And the one that came to me was snake. What that led to over the years is a depth of understanding about not only snake, but snake spirit. And one of my favorite all-time books, Debbie, is called The Cosmic Serpent, basically DNA and the origins of knowledge. I'll try to be brief with this, but basically the author, Jeremy Narvey, he went to South America in Justin the Brew, ayahuasca, saw a lot of snakes, remembered what he had read something in Harner's book about that. And also about these critters that Harner was shown that these critters came across space and time, landed on the planet Earth. And he went, huh. And even Harner made a footnote in the book said, you know, I'm not a biologist or microbiologist, but maybe that was DNA. So Narvey goes through this whole process, studies microbiology, shamanism, et cetera, and comes to the conclusion that the early shamans were actually seeing images of DNA, but they didn't have a precedence for it. So they look like serpents, intertwined serpents. Isn't that a trip? And he's got in the book too, he's got images, you know, of snakes and serpents in both cultures like in Peru, in the jungle, and the mountains actually, that use a brew to travel. I lost my train of thought, but anyway, he makes that, he does this whole detective work to discover that cross-culturally in both cultures, this is what I remember I was going to say, cultures that use plant medicine, and those that don't, are the images of the snakes and a lot of them intertwine snakes. If you see this one image over here, it's by a dear friend of mine in Australia, Jeremy Donovan, who created this because of my understanding, you know, more and more of the power of snakes, and that snake spirit is a healer. So when I'm doing healing work, I call on snake spirit. All right, one more piece, and that's this. The only tattoo I've ever gotten, and probably would be the, will be the only one, but directly from this image here, and it's a constant reminder that snake spirit is with me at all times. And what I was going to say about the images that Shaman saw, they really were seeing snakes and serpents, but because they didn't know what DNA was. Now we go, oh, intertwine, oh yeah, and you know, the ladder that's in between. So check out, all of you who are listening, if that intrigues you, check out that book, Cosmic Servant. It's one of the most top 10 books that's ever, I've ever read that has influenced me greatly. Plus this was an Anna birthday celebration too. You know, at my 60th birthday, I thought, I want to do something to mark that. And so I got a tattoo and found somebody could do this. The other one, if I may just say briefly, is Anna Otto, who came to being actually in a, in a medicine journey on Cone Peak in the Bentana wilderness, which is also referred to as the Big Sur area. A buddy and I went up, we went up, and at this time, you know, I'm a child of the 60s. I did acid, you know, I did mushrooms, I did all of mescaline. I had a roommate that was dealing, you know, it sort of opened, you know, it opened the doors of consciousness, but you know, at that point, I didn't know what to do with it. I'm just tripping. Then after, you know, a few years of really becoming to appreciate that it's, you know, I can't do that anymore. I can't, I can't just do acid just to get high and see the ceiling, the bubbles in the ceiling or something like that, you know, or trails or whatever. I couldn't do that anymore. It wasn't allowed. I got a very distinct message. You know, no, you do this as in the, in the manner of the sacred. So with that intention, my buddy, my good friend, long time friend went up there. We did hiked around for about three days. Then we went up on the, on the, the hill about a mile up and wonderful vista and everything. And then we did some prayer and cut the mushrooms up, put them in orange juice and took them and then waited. Yeah. And what happened was just phenomenal. I'd read Terence. I just got to ask, how many grams? Because it makes a difference. I don't know, but it was enough to go past a certain, you know, I didn't even know think to measure or anything like that. Quite honestly, you know, these days, I'd probably do that if I do, I don't know if I'll ever do them again. I don't know. But what happened is I, what we do is, you know, not to be gross, but vomit, you know, when you do ayahuasca or mushrooms, you tend to, mushrooms get rid of the arsenic. You know, that's why your body rejects that. But by then it's activated. So what happened is I, I got off my chair, went down, you know, and did that. And then I looked and I went, oh, a pretty altar. And, and then some interesting things started developed as, and you've done this, I know, but, you know, you kind of go in waves, you know, where it gets a little more intense and relaxes and a little more. And at some point I turned to my friend Bruce, who had been talking about shape shifting earlier. And I said, Billman, I don't think I'm going to be around much longer, not dad, but not my real self, my usual self's going to be around. So just remember, you can't really fly. Okay. Remember that. I'm going on. I'll see you later. And what happened is I would, I would joke with him prior to that, I would joke with him, you know, giggles and laughs and all that. And at one point this hand, which was completely dissociated from my usual body, took, reached my head up and pushed me down, not to hurt me, it didn't push me into the rocks. Out of my mouth came the words in English, there's no fucking around with this got my attention. I went, oh, okay. And then would soothe my forehead and say, we love you in English. And then through, and this happened about two or three times. Finally, I said, okay, I get it, you know, no problem. And so then he would proceed through my voice to teach me in some language or structure of sound that I understood, but I don't know what language it was and taught me just the rest of the night for about the next, I'm guessing about six, seven hours. His name that he gave me means the fierce and compassionate one. And it's on the auto. I don't have it right here, but I told that story somewhere. And I got an email from somebody said, oh, in our native language, this is what it means. And I don't recall, I can tell you, but it was just like, oh, there really is a name like that. Anyway, a bit of a long story, but that is the one that works with me, particularly with extraction. And do you see him? Does he speak to you? Does he guide you? Does he show you things? What is that like? That's a good question. Yeah, I have seen images of his appearance typically is almost what you might expect, like a Native American elder, long silver hair, you know, the wrinkles, etc. But he's also a shapeshifter. So he could show up as a young man. He could show up as a woman, you know, in different ways, but always knowing that that's the fierce and compassionate one. And he's been a thank you. I just feel really blessed, you know, a little bubble of emotion there because I'm so appreciative, you know, he'll be with me into the, you know, the last long road at the end. I know that be there to receive me and walk me into the gates. Oh, Stephen, that's so beautiful. Thank you. Yeah, thank you for sharing that and for being so vulnerable with us. I'm also listening to that. I'm just so compelled to ask you, do you have connection with our interstellar brothers and sisters? Do you have a guide who's a being or peoples from other planets? Well, no. I think it's because, like I said, I'm a triple earth sign. Okay. You know, Capricorn from Iowa, last name farmer and everything. It's much more with the spirits of the earth. Makes sense. I also said, and I've heard this tale before about our consciousness, this gift, which I would say mostly is a gift, but maybe it's a curse too. I don't know, that our self-reflective consciousness really came from the stars. So in that sense, the Pleiades, very specifically, or just beyond the Pleiades, that was one of his teachings, is that I often refer to the beginning of Space Odyssey 2001. I don't know if you've seen that lately, but go to YouTube and just watch that. It's about a 10-minute clip of the beginning where you know that much apes around the waterhole, they're two different tribes fighting for it, and then suddenly they wake up and there's this obelisk, you know, there and it's whoo, you know, who kind of music, but they discover tools. But the interesting and the ironic part of it is, this guy, this ape takes a bone, starts hitting the other bones and breaking it. The first tool was a weapon. And I'll let anybody do what they want with that, but I think that's ironic in some way. Anyway, watch that first part of Space Odyssey because something was introduced, you know, to the apes, you know, that prompted one of the apes or maybe more to get up and walk on two feet and also then continue to develop this self-reflective consciousness. It's just a good term for it, being able to look back on ourselves. We're not the only species that has it, but I think, you know, we're sort of at the top of the heap as far as that goes. Self-reflective consciousness, yes. And this is Dare to Dream. So Dr. Steven Farmer, what do you next dare to dream? What are your future dreams and goals? Well, I'd like to see peace on Earth, you know, of course. That's a lofty goal or a lofty prayer, and there are people that are working on it. The Heartbath Institute does sponsor some, I'm not sure they call them coherence collectives, where people all over the globe are, you know, meditating and going into a state of what they call coherence, you know, and expressing their prayers and hopes for peace on an individual level. The beauty of the work that I do is not determined by age. I am an elder now of the tribe. I recognize that. It took me a couple years to kind of, you know, get that suit on, you know, to accept it, but I fully accept that now. And I feel, I was just thinking about this this morning, my wife and I had a conversation last night about, oh, you know, I don't know if anything really matters, you know, she was saying that. I don't think anything matters. I said, well, I totally agree with you, but there is a way to think, to live in that paradox. As a friend said one time, he said, I lived my life as if what I do is really important and it matters, knowing all the while, three, four thousand years from now, it won't matter. That's where I'm at, is I choose to know that I have the impact on people. And as long as I keep in mind that what I do is a service, you know, I'm compensated. There's that idea of reciprocity again. I'm compensated for it in various ways, not all financial, but, you know, certainly financial. I charge for my sessions, you know, for instance, because there is that exchange. That's the way it is. So I'm looking at some possible books already. I've got one of my earlier books that's all set up and ready to be tackled to revise, called The Wounded Male. I had one of my clients whose man read it, he picked up a copy and he said, oh, it's a great book, you know, I want to do more with the ancestors, you know, because I think they're really important. They're tapping us on the shoulders, you know, trying to get our attention, you know, pay attention, guys. There's a book, Neil Donald Walsh, you know this conversation with God. I've been doing journaling and doing downloads, you know, for about eight, 10 years. And I look back over some of them and I'm like, you know, this is good stuff. It's coming through the ancestors. I thought, what about a book? Don't tell anybody your opinion. Yeah, okay. So everybody out there. We'll get our advanced copies. Yes. Doing one like that, called Conversations with the Ancestors, because there's some real profound downloads, you know, that have come through. Where I look at them and go, that's pretty cool, you know, I think I was there. I was pretty sure, you know, one of those. And that's the idea. I think also just what I'm doing a lot right now on, there's some shifts going on in my work. You know, I did a while back, there was a bit of a transition to doing more mentorship now. It's been interesting. That was a card. Yeah. And that's not a sales pitch. I'm just saying, you know, that's, that's naturally where it's come. So I'm doing a lot more mentorship. And I love it, you know, being able to offer, like you said, all of these areas, you know, that I've worked with in so many different ways, understanding trauma even more in the residuals of trauma. Yeah, stuff like that. You know, that's, that's an interest. Thanks for asking too. I just got a carve out the time to do this stuff. That's the only thing. Yeah. Lucky you that you have so much creativity and so much that's given to you to take care of, to disseminate that kind of wisdom and that you've got writer in you. And I look forward to more. I'm so grateful you came on the show. Anytime, Debbie. Thank you for having me. You're a great host too. So thanks. Appreciate it. And folks, if you want to check out more about him, go to drstevenfarmer.com. And I end this show with a quote from Korshedbav Nagri. Every soul on earth has a guardian in the spirit world who guides the earthly soul. This guardian is known as your spirit guide. It is his or her mission to guide you on the right path. As soon as you take birth, a soul in the spirit world is assigned as your spirit guide from birth to death. Subscribe to this number one transformation conversation dare to dream with Debbie Dashinger. Please leave a comment like the show and send it to people who you know will love it. We are an all major podcast sites. And if you'd like to see what we look like absolutely animated and in person in real time, go to youtube.com slash Debbie Dashinger next week on the show. Dr. Stephen Greer will be here. He is an American UFologist who founded SETI, the Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence and the Disclosure Project. And remember folks, don't just dare to dream. Dare to turn all your dreams into your reality. Thanks for joining us today.