 Uh, David, it's doing it takes about 10 seconds. I'll send it here and just testing. Can you, can you all hear me? Yes, we can, sir. No, I can't. Perfectly here. A lot of clear apologies. I sometimes use a earphone. Sometimes I don't, and I didn't have it plugged in. So I presume you can hear me. Yes, we can. Yes. Thank you. You're welcome. Oh, there's the message. Great. Yes, so Andrea, you're live. I'm going to be on mute to avoid distractions, but you're all set to go. And I'll set you as host. And just may I ask, should we be on mute if we're not actually speaking? Would that make the transmission best? What's I think that's a good idea. Okay. Thank you. So, David, I will go through the policy reading as usual, you know, during our meetings about hyperledger policy. So here we are. Just a few seconds more. Linux Foundation meetings involve participation by industry competitors. And it is the intention of the Linux Foundation to conduct all of its activities in accordance with applicable antitrust and competition laws. It is therefore extremely important that attendees deal to missing agendas and be aware of and not participate in any activities that are prohibited under applicable US state, federal or foreign antitrust and competition laws. Examples of types of actions that are prohibited are Linux Foundation meetings and in connection with Linux Foundation activities are described in Linux Foundation antitrust policy. If you have questions about these matters, please contact your company council, or if you're a member of the Linux Foundation, feel free to contact and entry up the growth of the firm of Gasminer of the Groove LLC, which provides legal counsel to the Linux Foundation. Hyperledger is committed to creating safe and welcoming community for all. For more information, please visit our hyperledgical contact. So welcome everybody. It is quite strange for me to be here at this time of the day because usually, you know, we are deeply lucid in the epic region. So usually I run these meetings in the morning. So welcome everybody. We're going to have a nice chat today in our speech by Mr. Whitman now, Mr. Rebecca Liao and Professor John Taylor. I will be focused on the DRPC, the Distributed Ledge of Payment Commitment. I'm so eager to hear about this subject because I've been reading so much about it. I've been in contact several times with Mr. Nat over the past months. So it's going to be a pleasure to leave ground for him and to display the basic features to have the introduction to the solution. It's Nat. It's up to you, sir. Well, Andre, thank you very much by Kylie. Yes, we got it. Am I being heard? Good. Good. Well, thank you very much to you and your group for inviting us to talk about the DLPC, the Distributed Ledge of Payment Commitment. It was called the DLPC, a new financial asset and standard for global trade. I can get this working. Just to introduce us, those of us who are here, I am chairman of GTV Insights LLC, a advisory firm, and I have been a part of the transaction banking industry for more years, and I will admit to anybody right. We also have with us John Taylor, professor of law century for commercial at Queen Mary University in London, who has been our leader in the legal framework for the DLPC. And then Rebecca Leal, co-founder and COO of Scoochain, who has been the coach chair of the DLPC working practitioner and the actual use of the DLPC, which is so crucial. I'm going to, before we go any further, I do want to acknowledge that the three of us are just a part of a much larger group of professionals who have been working on this. And we want to make sure that their contributions are acknowledged, particularly Jana Webkowski, who is the working group co-chair. We get into some basic questions. Where did it come from? Why BAFTA? For those of you on the webinar, you may not be familiar with BAFTA. So let me just give a little background to BAFTA. BAFTA is an International Financial Services Industry Association. Its members include nearly 300 financial institutions and the solution providers located around the world. As a worldwide forum for analysis, discussion and advocacy for international financial services has provided support to its members who are active in trade and payments globally for over 85 years. So it has a long and distinguished history. But what was the problem that we set out to, as we know, as part of an industry-wide move to digitalization of banking processes? There was a clear need with the digital transforming and being an historically paper-based line of business. For centuries, they well back to Andre's home country. International trade and trade finance has been papered. People and his time of all became increasingly cumbersome. But what complex at the base of all trade transactions and embedded in all instruments covering those transactions the crucial element, very simple crucial element is the commitment to make a payment to other parties in the transaction. Now, during the past century and further back, the legal basis for those payments has been covered by law, usually statutory and regulation based on paper-based transactions with wet signatures. However, as the digital transformation of banking has become widespread, it's become essential that a new legal framework was acquired to cover digital payment element of the newly digitalized trade transactions. And I keep using the word digitalized because this is really the crux of what has brought us to. This has been the change, the move from paper-based to digital-based trade transactions. And of course, we've seen the importance of digital with the results of the pandemic on our working environment. But in addition to the legal framework, which ensures that digital payments are legally binding and enforceable as if they were in wet form, wet signatures, a standardized and interoperable way to represent a digital payment commitment for any trade instrument is absolutely essential. This has become particularly important that we have a standardized and interoperable representation. With the growing number of DLT platforms, such as Marco Polo, we trade contour. And then finally, negotiability is required for enterprise adoption. So back in 2016, BAF rose to the occasion to meet these issues. BAF established in 2016 a distributed ledger payment commitment working group, the DLPC working group to address the problems of digital transformation of trade. And the objective was to produce a digital payment commitment, which is standardized, legally binding and enforceable, interoperable and negotiable for clear objectives for any trade solution, whether it's actually whether it's sitting on a DLT platform or not. Now, I'd like to say that the working group's agenda was set on date one, the first meeting. But as you know, the case, it took a lot of effort. And we spent three years of intensive effort by a group of trade bankers, technical specialists and lawyers. Many of those, most of those were cited on that slide that I showed you up front. Meeting weekly on weekly conference calls to produce the BAF DLPC, which in source form to meet the requirements before set out above. Now, the importance of open source cannot be sufficiently stressed because this was an initiative for the industry as a whole. And to meet the crucial aspects of an open connected market of the new trade ecosystem. Now, in April of 2019, we published the first DLPC technical and business best practices paper trial use. This document allowed us to solicit and incorporate industry feedback. Much of this feedback was actually based on the use of the DLP standards in live transactions during the spring and summer of 2020. So with revisions based on actual commercial use in in late August of last year, 2020, the DLPC working group published initial release version 1.1 of the BAF DLPC best business practices and initial release vision 1.1 of the DLPC best technical. Practices setting the background to actual use of the DLPC. Now these documents can be found on the BAF website. We consider these documents best practice documents to be living documents and we'll continue to update them based on industry feed. So with that is the background to our work and and how we got to where we are. I'm going to turn this over to John Taylor, who will go into the legal framework, which is so crucial to the. John, let me turn it over to you, ask you to come off mute and take us from here. Well, thank you. Thank you very much with and our thanks to all the colleagues who have made this presentation possible. We really appreciate this opportunity to talk about the DLPC. While I'll be concentrating on the legal framework for the DLPC. I'll try not to make this to legal ease and please when we complete our presentation ask any questions. If you would like further information on any aspects of the topic that I will be covering in brief the DLPC is first of all, it's just a payment commitment. It does not purport to digitize the entire underlying transaction trade finance transaction that might be at participated in by the parties. We decided we would concentrate solely on the payment commitment it being so important in any trade finance transaction. Secondly, interestingly enough, it is in digital form, you'll be pleased to know. We designed it to be on a distributed ledger network, but it can be modified for any digital format, whether on a distributed ledger platform or not. Thirdly, it's for use in any trade finance transaction. It's just the payment commitment element of the transaction that the DLPC addresses. And when I say any transaction will hear from Rebecca, some of the very diverse range of trade finance transactions that she and her colleagues have already begun to use the DLPC in. But it can be open account, it can be supply chain, receivables or payables. It can be applicable to drafts, to letters of credit, to trade acceptances through invoices or to guarantees. Anything involving a payment element the DLPC can be applied to. More importantly, perhaps from your perspective is it's open sourced and it's readily available on the BAFT website. The effort that we've made, we and others have made, we decided we'd make it available for the industry as a whole. It's meant as a benefit to the industry. It's open sourced, you can use it, you don't have to pay for a license or other payment. You can take the idea and see how you can best apply it to the transaction that you have in mind. And interesting, it's interoperable on and across any DLPC platform in the way that we've structured it. Again, I'm sure Rebecca will be explaining this in more detail. Finally, and this was the tough nut that we had to crack, to be honest. It's within a legal framework that does ensure that although the commitment is in a digital form, it is or will be legally binding, enforceable, and more than that is negotiable and negotiable instrument. And the way in which we did this, we can describe on the next slide please. I'm sorry, is it possible to get the next slide up? Yeah, yeah, it's just my PC is moving slowly. We'll get it going. Sorry. No, absolutely, no problem. I'm not going to bore you with the background. If you really want to know the background to the legal aspects of the DLPC, have a look at this paper that was prepared two years ago, two and a half years ago now, by Sherman and Sterling, obviously eminent US based lawyers for BAFTA and the R3 group. And basically it told us that if you're going to have a payment commitment that would be enforceable, you have to embed it within a framework of law that is encouraging. And that's precisely what we sought to do. It operates according to the recommendations we've made in the BAFTA papers on this topic in the best practices papers on this topic. It provides a legal framework because we've structured the DLPC specifically as a note, you know, a payable note. I promise to pay type document an unconditional promise to pay that the parties would govern the note by Delaware law. Now, why Delaware law? Well, Delaware law, when you look at it, confers on the parties, the obligor or the holders of a note, the same rights and defences as if the note were in writing, even though the note is in digital form. This, as you know, has been a real difficulty to find a law that would support a digital form of promissory note or other obligation, because under English law, under New York law, et cetera, there is not still today, surprisingly, there is still not adequate statutory protection or comfort that can be given to ensure that a note or other payment obligation would have the same rights in digital form as it has in traditional written form. So, of course, we've indicated that the parties are quite free to choose other law if other laws are seen by those parties to support the obligation. But clearly, they'll need to take legal advice to do this. Of critical importance, however, is the last major bullet point on this slide. The DLPC is really a simple representation in data form, 13 simple data forms, fields or codes that do, at the very least, the four things that are indicated on this page. They identify the payment commitment that's being undertaken and the parties who, excuse me, undertake that commitment. They link the commitment to an identified transaction. The trade transaction is identified because that's where the payment commitment will arise from. They show the status of the transaction. As the transaction goes through various status, state stages, the 13 data fields will be changed to a modified to update the status of the transaction. And finally, not surprisingly from what I've already said, the 13 data fields, number 13, in fact, provide the rules that govern the DLPC. So we could go to the next slide, please, with the point that I've been trying to make is just a very, very simple one. Namely that we've made a huge amount of effort to create a simple instrument that would have the characteristics that I mentioned. I'm a lawyer of, I have to say, half a century of experience in international finance and in trade finance. Half my career was spent as in the international financial institutions in the Asian Development Bank, in the World Bank and I was general counsel of the European Bank for reconstruction and development. And I know the efforts that those institutions have made to encourage trade finance. And we think this DLPC would fit very nicely with the sort of work which they undertake as well. So with that, let me finish. And if you have questions, please raise them. Over to you, please, Rebecca. Thanks very much, John, with and thanks to Andrea and Eugenio for having us. I certainly very excited to be able to talk to this forum. What can you please go back to the previous slide. Thank you. I so as both John and would have mentioned before we've been doing live transactions using the DLPC at skew chain. And these are some of the major categories of transactions that we have been doing. The DLPC is an eminently flexible asset because it only represents the payment commitment in a transaction. So we've been using it. First example is we have been using it for PO financing so this is where we attach a DLPC to a purchase order, and that is used to get working capital for suppliers that purchase order can also be attached to a bill of materials, and that can be used to finance suppliers in the deep tier. So upstream in the supply chain in other words, the bill of materials is a good way for understanding how much each suppliers actually contributing to the finished product which then allows you to get a much more accurate volume for appropriate purchase order financing. A major category is deep tier financing that is based on an invoice from the tier one supplier. So the tier one supplier will send an invoice to the buyer for their for their finished goods and then the buyer will approve that invoice as they normally do. And that invoice will then go into a liquidity pool, which can be used to finance the deep tier of that supply chain. The third example is that we use the DLPC for a contractual take or pay guarantee. This is typically used in the inventory financing context where you're actually doing the buying and the selling of inventory. Whatever financing vehicle is going to be doing that buy and sell they will want some sort of guarantee from the buyer that they will take the goods off their hands. So DLPC accomplishes that last thing that we use for a DLPC is replacing the traditional letter of credit with a DLPC structure. So what next slide please. Okay, great. Thank you. Let's start with what is probably the easiest way to use a DLPC. So a DLPC can serve as an alternative to a letter of credit. So one important thing to remember is that a DLPC is, as a name would suggest, specifically for distributed ledger. And so you're not just getting the benefits of the instrument, but you are also getting the benefits of the blockchain technology that underlies it. And that's what we're going to take advantage of in this structure. So you don't have to follow all the different lines in the flow chart suffice to say that what happens when a buyer issues a purchase order is that DLPC gets carved out from that. That is connected to a restricted bank account. And that bank account essentially acts as a treasury or an escrow for the amount of the DLPC. So the buyer will go ahead and ship their goods as they normally would. Once the goods are accepted, or if there's a certain lapse of a number of days, then the DLPC becomes binding. And at that point, the payment instructions can flow from there. So what we're going to be serving in this case is really just to receive the payment instructions from the buyer or a draft from the seller in order to be able to remit payment to the seller. They're also providing the restricted bank account that is connected to the DLPC. Other than that, there is no other bank function. So as an alternative to a letter of credit, this is very bears a huge cost advantage. Okay. I went next slide, please. Great. Thank you. So there are some instances in which a supplier is not comfortable taking the risk of just the buyer. So in that case, a bank still needs to be involved in the middle. In those situations, the DLPC is really acting as sort of a guarantee or a standby letter of credit. So what happens here is the buyer issues a purchase order and a DLPC as they normally would. However, the DLPC is issued to the bank. And then the bank will turn around and issue a DLPC to the supplier. So that's a sequence of DLPCs here. As with the previous example, the bank does not have to look at any documents. They don't have to review anything. All they have to do is take direction from the buyer's DLPC. So when the buyer is satisfied with the shipping documents, they can go ahead and make that DLPC effective. The bank's DLPC will automatically become effective and then the entire transaction settles. So in this case, if the supplier would like to get a guarantee from a bank or if they're looking to get financing based on the bank's cost of capital as opposed to the buyer's, this is one way to do that. Okay, next slide please. Great. So this is deep tier financing for both purchase orders and invoices. So on the left here, you have an example of purchase order financing and that's where the purchase order becomes a DLPC. And the upstream suppliers are able to get working capital off of that DLPC. Once the DLPC is on a blockchain network, it is visible to financiers that are on that network. And because it's interoperable, it's available to financiers outside that blockchain network as well. But it is a single source of truth. So the upstream suppliers can go to their banks and assert that a portion of this DLPC is meant for them. So it should be backing the financing that they will be getting for working capital. So that's purchase order financing. Now let's talk about deep tier financing using invoices. So that's the example on the right. And that is where a tier one is going to be issuing invoices to the buyer as they normally would a buyer would then approve that invoice and it becomes a DLPC. So based off of that tier one can get financing if they like, but the objective is to allow tier two to get the same cost of capital in their financing as the buyer would because we're looking at the buyer DLPC at the end of the day. You're noticing a theme through all of these slides is that the objective of the DLPC is to make trade transactions easier. It's also to make it more efficient and cost effective for banks to do trade transactions. So that's certainly to distribute trade finance assets, but having said that it really does place control of a trade finance transaction in the hands of the entity that actually needs that financing and that's the buyer. So, let's go to the next slide. So last example that I'll go over here is inventory financing. So this is where a DLPC is used to guarantee to any sort of financing vehicle, whether it's a bank or a special purpose vehicle. It's used to guarantee that the buyer will in fact buy the inventory once they've either issued a purchase order for it or there's a purchase agreement for it. It's used to guarantee that the financing vehicle which is not in the line of business of whatever inventory they're handling is ultimately going to have a market for those goods. So the supplier will go ahead and ship the goods and the SPV is going to purchase those goods and then hold them hold title to them until the buyer is actually ready to use them. The buyer is ready to go ahead and purchase that inventory and outlay the cost for that, then the DLPC will get discharged. But the reason why we're using a DLPC here is that once you start to go across multiple tiers for inventory financing. And once you start to have more inventory in your program, you need a way to always evidence the correct credit risk that is relevant to the transaction. And that's where a DLPC can be connected to the transaction documents to go ahead and provide that evidence but it can also be connected to the inventory itself. Okay, great. So that's that's it. Those are the ways in which we've been using the DLPC hopefully gives you an idea as to how DLPC can be used. But with that, I will turn it back to the group and if there are any questions more than happy to answer. Rebecca that's terrific. I'm looking at the chat line here and seeing if we can. Yeah. Identify. If you want to let me let me let me hand it to you. Yeah, no worries, sir. I was just thanking you all three, you know, for the speech. It's just really insightful. And it's really interesting, you know, when you read this on on the screen, it's totally different compared to what we have just seen. So I thank you so much for this. And I'll go quickly through the questions and we have a few ones here in chat. The first one is from Brett. Hold on just a second. I was just asking, is there a list of commodity pool or braces that are aware of these DLT developments. Did you make it. I mean, can you hear us. Are you are you asking me if I heard you. No, no, I was just asking the snap. I am not aware of that. Rebecca, do you have you come across any commodity pool operators. Yeah, so I mean I would say that the commodity space is generally aware of all the blockchain developments and commodities is one of those industries that is particularly a good fit for our blockchain technology. I don't know about the pool operators themselves, but certainly traders are well aware of DLT developments and mean a lot of the traders, as well as the, you know, the large enterprises that are big commodities buyers are well aware of DLT. Yeah, it's quite prevalent in that space. So the, they're one of the commodity. If I remember correctly, they certainly we've spoken to them, which and I have spoken to them in the past. So that I expect they're aware of this. And part of our outreach effort. Do they have offices in Chicago. I don't think the offices is in Switzerland, if I remember properly, I don't know exactly, but I guess they're in Switzerland. I'm going by heart. I don't know what they have any offices in Chicago, to be honest. Very good. Another question to all three. Jenny or my colleagues asking which are the most important steps for having all the three finance solution and respective platform to join DPL C standards. Both from institutional. From institutional perspectives with BAFT and from technical perspective, interacting with Q chain and the open source community. And also from a legal perspective in the EU, of course. So perhaps I could start with just the BAFT. As we've said, it is completely open source. So you are invited to go to the BAFT website. Download the best practices, both business and technical, which give you the most per hensive way of actually utilizing the, the both the rationale and the background for utilizing it. And then the technical steps in utilizing it. So those are that those are found in the best business practice and in the best technical practice documents which are open to anybody who wants to use them. Perhaps I could add, I see there's a question there can one obtain the legal language relating to the deal PC and the answer is yes. Have a look, especially at the business best practices document that's on the BAFT website, and particularly to section four of that of that document it describes the legal framework, and then it actually provides a form of wording that could be used. And that's part his wishes, a wish to use the deal PC. As it's a standard, if you like it meant as a standard form of wording, but obviously you would then want to adapt it for the particular circumstances that you would find appropriate and your own lawyer would, would no doubt be comfortable to do that, but at the same time, it would use him a solid basis to work from. We mentioned earlier with mentioned earlier that we had a lot of people working with us on the working group, and included in the, in the working group were three very skilled American lawyers, because when we focused on the fact that Delaware would provide a statutory framework for the deal PC, we then needed to get the advice, particularly of lawyers from the United States and qualified in the US and in US jurisdictions. We didn't have qualifications in, in the District of Columbia, but these were we, we, we got people qualified in New York law in Massachusetts, and surprise surprise in Delaware law as well. So I hope with the material that is in the business best practices. This would help to give you some good guidance. I guess it's the same thing. I mean, with with the Europe as well, and also the epic region. The picture is definitely saying as the one you mentioned now. Yes, Andrea. Yeah, it's, it's difficult because, and, and you know, I keep, I keep pressing everybody every time we have a session like this, as well as at Bath itself, I keep pressing the bankers and the colleagues. Look, go to your legislatures and tell them there really does need to be an updating of the laws on this subject. I mean, the, the law in the in England, I'm originally from Australia, but the law in England, you know, derives from statutes in 1880s. I mean, what are we doing? Sorry, Andrea. Just joking, nothing, nothing too serious. But I understand what you were mentioning. So, so they need, yeah, there needs to be legal reform, and there are efforts being undertaken to give that legal reform. So, even if you feel I mean the reason we suggest a deal PC should be structured under Delaware law is because that's where we see a really sensible and and proper framework. As the laws of other jurisdictions, though, come into the 21st century, then you can use those laws. I mean, logically, you'd probably be more comfortable to the use the laws that you're most familiar with. But until those laws have changed, and frankly, as a lawyer, I can say you're taking a risk. Perfect. Thank you so much, John. There's a question from role right now is asking how does the DLPC interact with legal reform efforts like the useful model on electronic transferable records is the DLPC and innovation, the value position of which rules on the lack of legal harmonization. Or do you see this as complimentary or even mutually reinforcing with legal reform to recognize electronic negotiable instruments. Well, perhaps I should try and jump in there to just say it's our understanding and indeed. We believe it to be the case that the DLPC satisfies the basic requirements of the onset trial model law on electronic transferable records. That because it is showing a reliable method subject to control of whoever has the right to the payment commitment. And it is identifying clearly what is transferable or in this case negotiable under the under the deal under the Delaware law. We've created what we believe is a negotiable instrument in digital form because that's what the Delaware law permits. And we've sought to comply with the Delaware law requirements. But in doing that, we also believe we've satisfied the Cree key criteria of the onset trial law so that they sit alongside one another. One doesn't supplant the other. But utilizing what we've suggested for the DLPC, we believe it satisfies the onset trial requirements that I think you referred to. Thanks, Taylor. This Brett Carpenter would like to ask you a question. Maybe I saw he raises his hands here in the chat. Thank you. So I want to address the state of Michigan. And just and just say briefly that what starts in Michigan, it goes to the rest of the nation. I'm just going to cite the speed limit of 55 going to 70 that started in Michigan and essentially the county of Oakland where I'm from there incubating our project and it's about taxation. And what I had to stand before a lot of these different committees is to address taxation with territory and, you know, in global effects of commodities pools and these kinds of things. And they came back and said that it was a good business case. So with blockchain, you also have, you know, the nodes and location. So these are the methods and the treatments. But then in legal ease, you also have similar, you know, ideas going into creating legal language. And again, I just feel that Michigan probably is going to do it again. And it might change the entire legal escape of America, as far as I hope. Thanks. That's very interesting, Brett. Thank you very much. And I just thoroughly encourage them you to have the Michigan legislators, legislators focus on this and indeed why not lead the way. Perfect. If you don't mind, I will go on with the questions because we have a few more and the pipe is mine. This is asking what are the 13 components makes it a legal doc. This is quite a nice question. Alright, could you repeat the question but then with or Rebecca run us through the 13, but please. Yes. Yeah, so I know that we're accustomed to thinking of legal documents as, you know, a piece of paper or a piece of paper that has been PDF or scanned. But the idea here is that the DLPC is a it's an asset. Think of it as an asset. It's a digital asset because we use it for financing purposes. We call it a financial asset. The legal backing for the DLPC comes from the legal framework that John has locked us through so thoroughly. And if you want to look into that framework in more detail that you can definitely find that on bath dot org. So if you look for the DLPC best practices, business best practices there and then you'll find the legal backing for the DLPC as a whole and then also for each of the fields of data that we've asked for to comprise the DLPC. The reason why the DLPC is a legally binding instrument is a combination of the fact that it is a set of data and it has a legal framework that backs it in the same way that if you used an e-signature service, for instance, that signature is a legal, a legal entity per se, but it is a legal artifact, even though it's purely digital. If you were to create a document completely digitally that would also fall into the category of DLPC as well. This is just where the world is moving in terms of digitization that you're going to see things referred to as documents or that qualify as documents even though they don't originate from a piece of paper. And basically, perhaps I could just add very quickly unless you would wish to. The 13 documents, there are 13 fields or data fields that need to be observed, but they are very simple fields. They're very simple pieces of information. They identify the DLPC, the particular payment commitment by a number. They identify who originates that payment commitment. Is it the buyer? Is it the seller? Is it the bank who originates? It has a reference to the particular trade instrument that the DLPC is connected to, that the payment commitment is connected to. It tells you who has made the commitment. Who's the obligor? Who says I promise to pay? It identifies who says is the obligee, the person receiving the obligation, who wants to get paid, in other words. Or if, and indeed, if that person who's wanting to get paid, the supplier, the supplier obviously wants to get paid, that person can transfer his commitment to somebody else, a bank or an institutional investor or whoever, and that will be shown in the record. So it's elements like this. I could go through the remaining, but I don't want to bore you to tears. Please have a look at particularly the technical best practices. These are not lengthy documents. And those of you who are familiar, much more so than I am with the digital world, you will find instructions there as to how you create these data fields and what should be populated within each data field. We've tried to make it as simple as we possibly can. Yeah, what you described, Mr. Taylor, being a long-term letters of credit practitioner is dealing with these issues. It's a thought of evolution in some ways of what an LCE is, and a simplified version of an LCE which causes some trouble, some problems. When going through from the bank of the applicants to the beneficiary one, you know, and you face several troubles, several mismatches in the middle. So what you described me, you know, from scratch to me sounds like a sort of an evolution and simplification of what an LCE is. By reducing also the possibility to have mismatches in the middle and mistakes as well. Well, please, I'd like very much if she would be willing for Rebecca to share with you because she's been really at the cutting edge of the application of the DLPC in specific instances that she described. And Rebecca, I know that the LCE was one of the examples that you have been working on and perhaps you might be best. I mean, I could mention one or two things, but please let me let the good audience hear what the person right in the practice has experienced. Sure. So I just want to make sure that I'm fully understanding the question. So is it what, you know, what has been the experience of going from, I say, an LC to a DLPC of a buyer is used to issuing an LC? Andrea, is that the question? No, I was just figuring out, I mean, is this sort of simplification on what an LCE is? You saw the typical swift message making up an LC, you know, there are so many fields, applicants, applicants back. This sounds to me, you know, not seen it in a pervasive way. Sounds to me something which is more simple in dealing with and, you know, or using the mistakes in the middle. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So definitely want to be transparent that unless a DLPC is connected specifically to a letter of credit, it does not be equivalent of a letter of credit. So a letter of credit enjoys a, you know, 100 plus year history, it has a body of, you know, robust jurisprudence surrounding it. And so if you want maximum security on your trades, it may not be the most efficient way, but it is the most secure way to make sure that you as a supplier get paid and you as a buyer don't have to pay until you're satisfied with the supplier performance. What we've done here is we've given a very similar level of security, but obviously it doesn't have the same history that a letter of credit does. I would say in terms of execution, what we're doing here is we're recognizing that most transactions are moving in the direction of open account. You know, the majority of transactions now are open account and the reason for that is a lot of these supply chain relationships are becoming a lot longer. So these suppliers work with their buyers over many, many years and there is a pattern of operation and trust that is established through that. So an LC is really used in the trading context. It's also used in opportunistic transactions where there isn't that sort of relationship between buyer and supplier. What DLPC does in those instances is that, you know, as you say, Andrea, it simplifies the process. It provides a very similar level of security using the benefit of the technology without all the steps that are required in an LC. However, if you see something happening in that transaction and you were hoping to get all the benefits that a letter of credit would afford you, then you would have to open a letter of credit and then put a DLPC. What we've seen so far is that moving to an LC, sorry, moving from an LC to a DLPC has provided some benefits and cost and time savings that most buyers want to move in that direction. What happens when you move to a DLPC is you no longer have to pay for the fees of an LC, obviously, and you no longer have to pay for document handling by the bank. So it's a significant cost savings. So from the supplier perspective, you know, any fees that they were paying to their advising bank in order to handle the LC fulfillment, that also goes away completely. In most cases we actually, as you saw in the diagrams, you only have one bank. And that's because there only needs to be one bank that issues a DLPC or that ultimately remits payment to the supplier. There's no need for an advising bank. Wonderful. This is much, you know, a great detail into this. It allows me to have a deeper understanding of the instrument, you know, myself being so stuck on LCs and on how they work and how sometimes cumbersome and complicated they are. That's not the question always from Bitcoin. He's asking, as it is negotiable, could you call it a digital currency? I would stay away from currency. So a DLPC because it is, so put it this way, it has a lot more in common with the token and a currency in terms of underlying technology. But as a legal matter, and as you know, in the way that it functions in a business transaction, it's not meant to be a currency. So DLPC is not cryptocurrency. It's not a stable coin. It is a financial asset specifically for. Yeah, and and indeed, I would certainly say from a legal perspective, it certainly couldn't be characterized as a digital currency. It's a payment, a method of payment. I like to, but interestingly, it's it's negotiable. It's a it's a negotiable instrument, just in the same way that if you have a promissory note written and signed wet signature, you have a negotiable instrument or a check. It's a negotiable instrument. It's not a check is not a promissory note, as you know, but a check is a negotiable instrument. It's it's readily transferable. And the holder has special protections and benefits. And we've what we've sought to do is to create in the digital space the same type of instrument as a promissory note in written and wet signature form. And and the legal underpinning comes from the fact that we've governed it. We recommend it to be governed by Delaware law because the Delaware statutory law gives it that characteristic. And as soon as the laws of other jurisdictions do the same, then we would say use those other laws. But for the time being, you really do need to take legal advice, I would say, in using other laws. Is that helpful. It is. It's also interesting me. One interesting element is obviously this is an evolving instrument as people use it that we will find the different different approaches. One of the areas which I think has some promise which we are still just beginning to explore is in the use of this DLPC to facilitate getting trade assets because this becomes a trade asset into the hands of institution. And what that is where the negotiability of the DLPC becomes, I think, very important. So, this is an area we're going to be exploring and trying. You're breaking up. When it's time we lose, we lose you. You haven't lost much. What's We haven't lost much. But just, I'm not quite sure what's happening with my, my connection but that basically just the point that I wanted to leave with everybody is that the DLPC is an evolving instrument that's going to be used, I think in different ways over time will evolve to be used in different ways. One of the areas where I think we will be seeing the DLPC to facilitate getting trade assets in institutional investors. Yeah, because of its negotiability. We think there's a quite a growing demand among the institutional investor community for trade finance assets. And that they also the institutional investors want an asset that they can rely upon naturally, legally rely upon. And we believe the DLPC in the way that it's been recommended gives them a reliable negotiable instrument they can buy the instrument and then they can sell it onwards if they want to sell it onwards if it's appropriate. And banks ought to like this because it takes assets off their books. If it goes to institutional investors and allows the banks then to create new assets on their books. So, but it's a, it's a topic that we're looking at and that's going to require quite a bit more thought and and effort to, to arrive at techniques that best encourage the transmission of assets into the hands of institutional investors who require or would like that. Perfect. Andrea. Yes. I would like to share my, my comment on, on, on that, just trying to speak, relating a bit, okay, and in the future of what can happening from a legal point of view, I mean, my, my suggestion, we, we can see globally that for instance, Europe by 2024 could have like a sort of comprehensive legal framework recognition for DLT and tokenized asset. And maybe by the same time, the model electronic law that now has been enforced by a couple of countries could have a more widespread application. So, I would like just to leave this idea to the, to the audience that maybe the, in a two, three, four years time slot, we may see the RPC solution or other solution like provide by the idea for a in Europe. I think globally with in finding common breast practices that find at the same time legal recognition in the national law, but also in the international application framework. So that's my idea. Great. If I may just interject again, please continue with that idea. You're genuine because we also are in discussions we that is to say the bath working group. We've been in discussions with ITFA with it for. We're watching closely what the European Commission is doing we're watching closely with what the British Law Reform Commission or Law Commission is doing. We're not of, as you say, a lot of new initiatives that could be brought together on this. And we would like to, we would like to cooperate with them. We're not saying, look, here is a take it or leave it instrument. You know, you've got to take it. We're not saying that at all. You're saying here's an instrument that could be used now, if you like. But if we could bring about a global change in this direction that you have been describing. Bath would really support that would really support it. I'm happy. I'm happy to hear that. Yeah, that's I mean, it's my idea. I mean, I am I'm I'm trying to picturing like around the globe what could be happening in a couple of years from now. Please continue with it. Your work will be very valuable. Okay, thank you. This is just the beginning. I have a question from the attendance. I think we, you know, we have exceeded a little the useful timeframe, you know, of an hour during our meeting. This is a good sign. I mean, the discussion has been pretty interesting. It means that, you know, we, we must do to raise the interest of the attendance and we can somehow succeed in doing this. And Andrea, could I just say, I think you'll find any one of us would be happy if, if any of your, any person on the webinar today is as I understand, certainly one may be thinking of how could they use the deal PC. If you have questions, we're happy to answer them. And indeed, if, if they would like particular help, I'm sure this could be, could be arranged separately as well. Very happy to follow. We'll ask you, Mr Knapp. Could somebody drop into the chat what the best contact point is. What could somebody drop into the chat what the best contact point is with questions. Intended that the colleagues on the, on this webinar should receive the slides. Because I think at the very beginning with, if I recall correctly, you had indicated the, the email addresses of us who would be very happy to be acting as a first point of contact if, if any of you would like that. If you don't mind dropping them back into the chat, anybody who joined after those were provided wouldn't have access. Thank you. I'll take a screenshot of that. Yeah, sorry. Yes, that's probably the easiest way any one of the three of us initially, and then we could refer you on if you needed. I'm not a computer expert. But we can certainly refer you to the digital computer experts who helped us in preparing the deal PC. Thank you very much. Not at all. Okay, Andrea. I think we are almost landing the end of time. So, yeah, I would like to thank you for my side because it's been very insightful session and I hope that we will have many more to come in the future. I would like to thank personally wheat and john and Rebecca for having shared this. Thank you. Thank you all of the three. It was a great session, one of the greatest that we had, you know, during the last year. So thank you so much, Rebecca Whitman and john Taylor for joining us today was a real pleasure and I hope to see you again in the future. Maybe we're going to have more of these at this time of day. Thank you. Thank you for the invitation we feel very, thank you. Thank you, Jen. Thanks everyone. Thanks for your time. Thank you. Bye bye. Bye bye and keep well. You choose. They say, thank you. Bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye.