 Hello and welcome everyone. My name is Faye Ronaldo and I'm working part-time at the Ecosystem Restoration Camps Foundation as the Fundraising Coordinator, but today I'm here to moderate our discussion. I'd like first of all to extend a warm welcome to everyone and thank you for your curiosity and your drive and the collaborative spirit that you bring in joining this group today. So who do we have here today? Well, you guys are all the experts in ecosystem restoration and we have a real great mix of experts here today from all different backgrounds and all involved in the restoration movement in different ways. And you'll have the chance to meet each other and speak during the breakout rooms, but if you'd already like to, I see some people have already introduced themselves in the chat. If you'd like to continue to introduce yourselves and perhaps along with your name and your work, you might also, if you'd like to open the space for further discussion, then emails are also very welcome. So before we launch into it, let's introduce the focus for today. And so today is all about implementing a global evaluation and monitoring protocol that can help qualify and quantify the results that can receive net camps. And so we've established a monitoring and evaluation framework, and we'd like to present that to you and invite reflection and then we'll continue to work with your insights over time. And so next to this, the focus is to, as we do that, to address the practicalities of implementing this framework. And the programme for today is we're starting now will, it will be two hours and we'll have a 10 minute break. John will begin with an introduction to the event and share his vision, I think of ecosystem restoration camps as living labs. Peter will share a little, here we go, we have a presentation. Peter will share a little about the monitoring and evaluation work at the foundation. And then Nick will share the monitoring and evaluation framework that he has been coordinating. So we really hope that today is going to show how data matters and provide that inspiration for us to collectively gather that data. And I also, we also hope that today is going to help to connect up different people so connect up camp coordinators with experts to answer the monitoring and evaluation based questions going forward. So the spirit of today is all about collaborative inquiry and joint collaboration, really co-ownership. A few practicals. The first thing is, is really helpful if you could put your microphones on mute. And then before you speak, you can of course take yourself off mute and perhaps you can also close your videos that will help with the bandwidth of to make sure that the presentations and the speeches can come through properly. And today will be recorded session will be sharing the notes after. A couple of ground rules that will help the conversation to go a little smoothly. You can use the chat function, the raising hand function. So if you see under reactions, there's a little tab called reactions at the bottom of your zoom page and you can click raise hand, and that will help me to see who wants to, who wants to speak. And there'll be lots of opportunity for everyone to speak. We will be after the presentations will be going into breakout sessions and reporting back on discussing the questions that arise through through today. So if you could share your questions as they come up into the chat, then we'll be fielding those to the speakers and to the groups later. So all questions or comments welcome in the chat box as we go through today. I think that's all the key ground rules. So just a reminder, please turn off your microphones and your video during the presentations. And please do you share your questions and comments in the chat box and we making sure that we're addressing those during the breakout sessions. Okay, without further ado, let's begin with John. So I think everyone, everyone knows John. John became well known through his, through his film, Green, Golden and Hope in a Changing Climate. And since the filming of the restoration of the Lost Plateau, he's been focused himself on the science of ecosystem restorations. He is the founder of ecosystem restoration camps and ambassador of the Common Land Foundation, and a well known international speaker, probably known to all of us. So John, without further ado, would you like to begin? Thank you, Faye. Thank you everyone for being here. It's really an honor to be able to speak to all of you. There's a constant need to realize kind of how serious the situation is, and yet we have to go beyond this seriousness to how can we actually act. And one thing that I noticed as I was documenting and observing and studying ecosystems around the world over the last three decades was that there's this very small group of people who are working in this area. And that there's so many more people who are working on the land. And it's those people who are working on the land that are having the biggest impacts, but they often don't know exactly what to do. And for a long time, I just wanted everyone to understand and I tried really hard to tell people what I was learning. So you can find everything that I've ever ever thought about this in my writing or in my films because I just immediately put it on to put it out somewhere. Sometimes it was in broadcasting and sometimes it was just in other ways, but I came to the conclusion that we were going way too slow and that the crises would start to pile up. And the fact is they have been piling up. And in thinking about this, I realized that we have to have a type of collective consciousness that we need to act as a species on a planetary scale. And I was started to think of this as collaborative inquiry for collective intelligence, because I realized it didn't matter what I learned if it didn't spread to everybody in the world and that I had a role to play. But I wasn't really that important ultimately in the outcome that it would be determined by others and by all of us. So that's kind of where I began to think about the concept of ecosystem restoration camps. And what I realized was that when you start to actually work on the land, we don't actually have a theoretical problem. We have a physical problem and it's not a single physical problem, it's collapsing ecosystems. So it's all of the different symbiotic systems that are working together that are starting to fail. So when one fails, there are other failures because there are feedback loops. And the more I learned about this, the more urgent I started to feel that this was. The more I tried to tell people how important it was, and the less I felt sort of confident that we were on the right path. And an interesting thing has happened through COVID, there has been kind of a break in business as usual. And it hasn't changed the outcomes in terms of the increasing crises that we're facing. But I think a lot more people have been focusing and we have a lot of things that are very positive. But the need to go fast and the need to work together was the basis of creating this. And what we see now is that we have to do this kind of monitoring and assessment and we have to have a very broad view. Because what I've seen is that we have multidimensional symbiotic systems on the planet. So the hydrological cycle, the hydrological cycle, the soil fertility, the biodiversity, the percentages and total amounts of organic material, and the height of the canopy. These are all elements of regulatory systems and life support systems on the earth. And human civilization, humanity over historical time, has been building infrastructure, has been extracting from this as we all know. And now the situation among people who are not studying this or not aware of this is very confused. So they're being told in school and by their families and in their work that they need to do other things. They need to manufacture and buy and sell things that somehow that's going to help. That's been elevated to the point where it's more important than the natural ecological systems in the normal sort of dominant economic and political system. We're approaching 10 minutes so to make sure that we have time. Well perhaps you might like to share briefly just to conclude but also share about your vision of the living labs. Well I think that the camps are the living laboratories that's what I'm trying to say. I'm saying that we have the chance to all work together and it's coming together and I'm pleased to see it. And I'm so glad that you're all out there. And please take over Faye, take me away. Great, thanks, thanks John. Okay. You're muted yourself Faye. Classic, classic. So thanks John. Quick tip because it's going to be particularly helpful for Mick and Peter's presentations. You can, if you don't already have your screen set so that you can see speaker view instead of gallery view. It's really helpful for you to see the presentations now. Okay so Peter now is going to talk to us about the foundation perspective on monitoring and evaluation. And let me scroll back to where we are. So Peter is the Executive Director of Ecosystem Restoration Camps and he spent the last 30 years in both the NGO and the corporate community, focusing on achieving sustainability at IUCN in banking and at the Natural Capital Coalition. And so he's going to talk now about how the foundation is currently helping the camp movement to monitor and evaluate their work. Take it away Peter. Thanks Faye, and thanks John. Yeah, I want to briefly touch upon, I know many camps are here too and I know it's a struggle for camps to take on monitoring and evaluation. I think monitoring and evaluation is a struggle for anyone undertaking any project. I'd like to spend some time explaining why I think it's really important. John just explained that we as field labs can help the world move forward on good techniques. But for that you do need data. Primarily you do monitoring and evaluation to see if you're on the right track. So if you're on the right track, you have a plan to check act cycle where and make after me will be a bit deeper in that where our framework fits in. You know you have a plan, you start to work, you check somewhere if you're doing the right thing still, you pull your lessons, you change your plan, and the whole cycle repeats itself. That's the primary reason why you should do monitoring and evaluation. I think we should add another layer. We are more activists than just making sure our project is the best ever. We're also trying to persuade the rest of the world that restored ecosystems and regenerative agriculture or other regenerative practices practices within those ecosystems for the people that will still live there are a good idea and we need to prove that in a language that people understand. So if you look at the development of ERC, you know we started with one camp in Spain. And that one camp in Spain communicated a great deal through social media and that inspired others to say hey I like the idea of camping as a way to get people to come help an ecosystem restoration. So as a foundation have been set up to facilitate that so we're setting in place the IT infrastructure for knowledge exchange, getting volunteers to come to camps. Everything you need to, you know very large group work together. So it platform based, we think will facilitate large groups, much better than account managers would behind the phone. And it's working because we're already at 38 projects that have very graciously agreed to join the ecosystem restoration camps movement and work together to restore what needs to be restored within the project space and introduce those regenerative practices. But we've also agreed to share with the world, what we're doing in the hope that we inspire everyone, because everyone in the end needs to be inspired to find a role within ecosystems with ecosystems and live in a way that the planet can carry humanity forward for a very long time. So camps for us are points of inspiration with the also hosts like commute people. In this case camps are points of inspiration, and we need evidence to show that we're on the right track. And this works. This is anecdotal evidence. This is that first camp in Spain, where you see a regreening after only three years. You also see the monoculture in the back growing, but you see there's an impact and that for lots of people works because there's an intuitive relationship to what you see in those images. When I saw John's film in 2009, that change from the desertified lusplato to the very green and lush lusplato, you intuitively felt the latter bit was the better world to live in. And we can show that also in a quantified way. And for many of the so-called audiences in ecosystem restoration camps, those quantified approaches are important. For the volunteers, the campers, as we call them, when they go to camps, to feel that what they do and contribute to is scientifically sound. So we're doing tests to show that what we're doing is sound is important. And another benefit also for, because it's difficult to do all these tests, they may actually enjoy doing the tests and Nick will show them or talk about them. We've designed tests that are actually kind of fun to do. In our world, we're still regrettably mostly charity funded charities really like lock frames and quantified group that their money was spent properly. So we needed for that too. And some of these funding streams might be part of payment for ecosystem service. Teams, carbon, or might want to contribute to biodiversity goals or poverty and hunger goals, and would like to show their supporters that what they're doing in a quantified way works. So these are just two groups very close to the camps that are interested in quantified data outside the anecdotal data. But now it gets interesting for that scaling question. If we can show that we're sequestering carbon, if we can show that we're helping reserve biodiversity, if we can show we're improving livelihoods of communities and people and farmers in those areas. If we can show communities in the region, neighbouring farmers may want to be convinced to change practices to join up in the broader ecosystem restoration movement, and to start to adopt some of those practices that have been showcased at camps. If we can show that for a great majority of the camps currently in the movement, there is an interest to help those neighbours move forward in that sense. And then finally, you know, it's a new and decade on ecosystem restoration. We can contribute to the data gathering and the scientific community that is really moving forward very fast on this issue. Bethany is here, we just had a very long discussion on what is net gain, how do we put the metrics in place. Perhaps we can be places where we test those, the concepts being developed, and see if we can show that we are indeed not just improving the ecology, but also improving the lives of people that live within that restored region. And then when it comes to data, we have the sustainable development goals, they each have a whole bunch of sub targets, most of them are quantified, and we show that what we're doing contributes to those goals, and hence get buy-in from the policymakers into ecosystem restoration. Because we may think now the decade on ecosystem restoration is here, but there have been many decades in the past, and policy coherence is a thing within governments. And maybe if we can prove that for multiple regions of interest in governments, this is important, we can achieve further momentum for ecosystem restoration. So, what have we built and Nick will explain it further is a testable framework on soil, which is our ecological aspects and now we have a coral reef camp baby joining us and there is a mangrove planting camp. And it's a cultural zone, but soil is where we're focusing on and we may have to develop further indicators for the individual that transformative experience that people have when you're in the midst of ecosystem restoration. We've developed tests and indicators to find out what's happening on the soil side, and then there is the society side, which I just described. What can we do as a foundation and as a community of camps to help each other do better monitoring and evaluation. Well, first of all, we think it's really important to bring monitoring evaluation to the level of the practitioner and the communities in the farmers. It needs to be as much as possible late person implementable. And we're looking for those tests and in our conversation today, we'll see if we're getting on the right track. We're working with Zendesk on building a knowledge and training platform right now that we can upload videos on with how to zone but we can also have discussions on improving those tests within that platform to see if we're doing the right thing. We're building partnerships. We've just signed up with restore with Crowder labs, so that remote sensing can take part of the burden away. And all we have to do is calibrate what the satellites are showing us. And then we're trying to figure out if we can set up partnerships with local university so that we can get students to come over, or maybe other campus to come over and help do the tests. I'm there almost say, great. I wish today a fundraiser to get schools to camps because we know sometimes an issue data logging infrared thermometers or penetrometers that campaign just started so we're looking for funding for this too. And then, you know, we're underway. Let's get the rest of follow and let's show and prove that what we're doing is the right thing to do. I'm done. Great. Thanks, Peter. Well, now, and I'm really excited to hear this, Mick is going to be sharing with us the monitoring and evaluation framework and make as an intern from Wageningen University, which is considered one of the the world's top universities and particularly renowned for its life science and specialism. It's been really amazing to have Mick working with this, not least for his enthusiasm and commitment, and he's also been coordinating the monitoring and evaluation effort. So he has redeveloped the ecological tests and he will present the framework to you now. And as Mick goes through this, I'd like to invite you to contribute your questions and your comments into the chat function, and we'll be making sure to collect those to go into breakout discussions in the second half. Thank you, Faye, and thank you everyone for being here today. It's really great pleasure and honor to be able to share some of the stuff I've been working on and explore how this can look like at the ground of camps worldwide. So Peter, maybe we can go to next slide. Before we really dive into the exercise, just a few central questions to my inquiry. First, as Peter already touched upon, obviously we wonder why, why should we care about monitoring and evaluation and for who is it important? How can this be a learning exercise that is also transformative and promoting a greater connection to nature and a sense of belonging in the face of these complex crisis of our times? Then, if this is possible, how do we empower ordinary people by doing monitoring and evaluation? And what is the stuff they will be measuring or what are the camps trying to reach? Obviously, one question I'm really hoping to explore with all of you later today is what are the challenges and opportunities when we do monitoring and evaluation at such unique and often quite remote ecosystems? One question that was kept coming back during the redevelopment of this framework was, and I quote this from Roland, who I believe is here today as well. How do we create something that is robust and useful at a scientific level, but is also not dependent on people's background experience and knowledge? Next slide. So, how did I dive into these? First, I had a pleasure to work with two data collectors. They were at Camp Oltiplano and Mama Adema in 2020, and very, very constructive feedback came from there. Then I also dove into the classic deep rabbit holes of the literature and was able to harvest some good insights there too. And as most of you probably did during this pandemic, I had quite some online meetings, and here is one with Autofonec, who shared with us some of the outcomes he's been able to measure, and he's amazing food forest in Naimecha. All of this gave me a lot of food to digest and to make sense of, and yeah, let's see what it gave me and gave us. Peter. Why should camps, Peter told you a little bit about why monitoring and evaluation is important for different members of the global ecosystem restoration community. I'm focusing a bit more on why it's important for the camps themselves and the work they're doing on the ground. First of all, it helps camps to really start understanding their local ecology and their own guesses about how things have come to be the way they are. What are the pressures that are being put on the ecosystems and why are they in such a not so pretty state? And also, of course, we're very interested in knowing what kind of actions or restoration interventions will help to restore these ecosystems and push them into a more desirable condition. So all of this is part of a vast learning cycle and adaptive management loop that camps can engage throughout their work. In doing so, we can also create some figures of the impacts the global movement is having on the world and share this with the wider world so that we can also increase the legitimacy of the work of ecosystem restoration camps. Next slide. So, how does this all fit together and work alongside many other things that need to happen at the camps? So at the top you see here in this chart the ecosystem pressures I just told about and the collapsing ecosystems as John mentioned. What is wrong and from there people obviously have started to reimagine what could be there instead and lush ecosystems with native species and local wildlife and so on. This can be translated in restoration goals and objectives, which in turn can be linked to certain interventions through conceptual models and so on. So here's the bit of the hypothesis that camps can explore. In turn this will allow camps to design and put these things on their sitemap so they know exactly what they are going to do where. And as this is done they can engage in monitoring and evaluation so that they can account for unintended outcomes and re-evaluate the work and integrate this in what they are doing. Camps then are able to respond not only where this data is coming from but also by sharing this with the wider community can create a massive response so that everyone is informed by this kind of work. Can you go to the next slide Peter? So all of these elements I started grouping them into what I'm calling different stages of development. And so here at the top of this donut the visioning and planning stages are more preparatory or theoretical perhaps. And then down below is what camps are all about, the actual restoration work on the ground and also some critical thinking and pondering about what is working and what is not working. And then back up as I mentioned before the response and adaptive management cycle. Next slide. So that's where the framework sits it's hovering around some doing obviously we need to be collecting data on the ground and this is why we have a set of protocols that I will talk about in just a minute. But also it has a lot to do with sense making part of it so camps can really incorporate the knowledge and understanding they're building on at the camps to improve their work and become better at restoring the ecosystem. So I think by now most of you have received a preliminary version of our framework. As Peter mentioned today we're focusing on the soil or I think it's more accurate to talk about ecological outcomes. These are listed here in the left column and it's a lot of them and they're not all necessarily relevant for all the camps. These outcomes are the things that we hope camps will be working towards. And so we created a set of indicators that will show whether the camps are on the right track and path to reach those. And these indicators will be associated with quantities or quantitative or qualitative data that comes from the different means of verification on the right column or the different ecological tests. In yellow you see a few tests that are still being developed so we're continuously improving the content of the framework which will lead to many versions of the framework that are always enriched by what is found at the camps. Next slide Peter. So here's just a little example of how these indicators look like in the framework. We have for each indicator and test a little bit of context so people know why they're researching on certain ecological attributes. And then very much like a recipe book we have a list with the materials and step by step method. And at the end there's a section with the results which will give you an indication of what you'll probably be getting and maybe also how you want to be setting your objectives. So for some attributes we talk about an optimum curve and you don't want to be increasing things infinitely like pH but for other things you actually may want to be increasing a variable over time as much as you can. So we're not reducing the soil compaction or water retention in the soil. Next slide. In this redeveloped version of the framework we also touched upon a sampling design and proposed stratified sampling is a very common method in ecological research and helps people to really find out where they need to sample and sample in all the different zones of the camp. We also talk about the time frame so people know what's the right timing to execute some of these tests and also know how this can become aligned with the work that is happening at other camps. Then we also have some instructions on how people can record this data. So some things will be pictures, other data will fall into these spreadsheets and for now we have a few different tabs for each of the indicators and tests that camps will be monitoring. And we also are developing a template that will help camps communicate their findings and share the results. Next slide. So what now, we have impact measurements planned for around 10 camps. It's a small sample, but it's really valuable at this stage. It's going to be a phase of trial and error where we will figure out what indicators were best where and whether they are actually feasible to implement at the camps. We will meet some more context specific metrics that are more suitable to specific biomes and the tropics. I mean, we realize there's a strong bias in this framework, of course, towards terrestrial ecosystems and a more temperate climate. And the foundation is also working on making sure this is all done in a creative comments context and the data is analyzed in the long term too. We're also aware of the danger of reverse incentives that may arise from having data collected at so many different locations. And so we really, the last thing we want to see is of course camps being replaced by monocropping systems. It's just a few things that I think will be following up. And now I really look forward to engaging in a conversation and hearing all about your experiences and relevant knowledge. Thank you. Great, thanks Mick. And I see my connections a little unstable so let's see if this works now. Now I would like to bring the floor to you guys and hear your thoughts and reflections and we'll go into break up rooms, we'll take a little break and we'll go into break up rooms but perhaps I can take just a couple of first comments from people. Does someone have some initial reflections to share? I'm just, this is Charlene, I'm just joining in now because I had the previous meeting, which ended a few minutes ago. So I just, sorry I couldn't attend before. Hi Charlene, I see my connections a bit unstable if it doesn't perhaps Peter wants to take over for me if it continues to be unstable like this. Just say it and I'll do it. Yeah, perhaps you can. You're coming over very clear and very. Oh it is. So it's just what I hear then so let's just keep going and see how it goes. So does someone have a couple of reflections, some first reflections to share back about Mick's framework that he's just presented or the framework makers just presented. I see there's a raised hand. Yes, Igor. Igor I can see your hand is raised. Yeah I was reading about the first thank you for the explanation Mick. I was reading the framework because I'm going to be collecting data. And then kind of this question came to me. It was not an idea of maybe partnering with the Cornell lab of ornithology. Maybe bird watchers somehow to. Yeah, because it was not so clear it's a lot of an approach focusing on the soil. It impacts the soil over the time. But my question will be more about the biodiversity. Is there already an idea how we are evaluating this impact in the biodiversity. My special interest is birds, but of course animals as well insects are the camps bringing plants that are essential not only for the products that they would bring. But what they could support for biodiversity for the local insects and other animals in general. It's a very, very interesting subject and it's one of the things that John Leo also always refers to as, you know, functional ecosystems depend on biodiversity and. I see Ica Jukic from tea composition has already shared a very useful resource for biodiversity monitoring and surveys. What we are also doing now we've organized a little sub team with Roland Fran and top they're all present here today. And we're looking into ways of serving biodiversity and also incorporating more camp specific tests. So we're thinking of looking at channel list and specialist species specific to to the camps and this can be different groups, whether that's insects or birds. It doesn't really matter in them. Maybe we are able to find out a way of calculating ratios and also draw global pictures about improvements in biodiversity due to the work of ecosystem restoration camps. Other than that we have for now the nocturnal insect test that is very simple and involves was one of my favorites when I had to try them out. It's just handing up a light sheet and or sorry bed sheet and shining light on it and waiting for them to come so it's very, very easy to monitor that over time. And we also are thinking of using these tools like iNaturalist to stimulate people to go out and really absorb what they're witnessing and and taking any any special encounters with nature. Yes, and I also see a comment from Elaine. We should avoid using use of indirect or hard to interpret assays I see here. Can you clarify that little Elaine will speak to that comment. Have to get unmuted first that always takes a few seconds. Yeah assays being fairly synonymous with tests or assessments. We want to avoid those things that can be interpreted several ways like anytime you're measuring carbon dioxide being evolved from the soil or from any particular part of the system. You need to know the underlying sets of microorganisms to know for certain who all is producing that co2 is it mostly bacterial is it mostly fungal is it equal combination. How important are the predators in that system because I know microbiologists tend to say, well it's mostly the bacteria the fungi that are actually producing the co2 and I can give you data. And those that know that's not true that sometimes you have huge numbers of the predators in that system and most of the co2 is coming from those predators, not from what you think is going on so I kind of have a problem with those things where you're measuring response or some part of the system and you don't have a really good handle on what that release of co2 actually means. That's a specific example there are any number of other examples one can use, but we want to really look at what each of the assays or each of the tests each of the assessments are what's actually producing that response. Okay. Yeah, that's really clear and and a really helpful insight also that really speaks to. Also purpose for today, because we're really working to engage citizen science and people on the ground to do this restoration work answer to measure that impact. And so to have that insight is really helpful to make sure that we're really aligned in our monitoring and evaluation framework so I think we're going to dive into that in more depth now in the breakout sessions. We'll, we've been quite structured in this first part because we really wanted to make sure that your time has is used wisely while you're here, but the next bit is really about you sharing your reflections and collaboratively inquiring into this collaboratively. But first, let's take a 10 minute break and I'd love to, I'd like to ask you to be back in 10 minutes quite sharply. I see Lucas, you have your hand raised, perhaps we can address, perhaps you can comment your, write your question in the chat and then we can make sure that we address that in the breakout rooms now. So if you're back in 10 minutes, we'll start with the breakout sessions. And then we'll come back report back to the group. And then we'll have a second set of breakout where we can dive into the questions that you've been sharing in the chat and can see there are some really interesting questions in the chat here so thank you and welcome you're welcome to continue to add more questions. So without clarification of the questions then. So the first one question that half of the breakout rooms will be exploring now is, is the framework aligned with research on ecosystem restoration. We might include thinking about whether the methods are scientifically robust, and how different camps can use different types of tests, how we could standardise those materials, and so forth. You'll explore that further in the groups. The second question we'll be looking at is, how do we implement monitoring and evaluation at camps on the ground so how can we support camps with implementing that framework. How could they practically collect that data, and financial mechanisms that could cover that equipment so that's all within the topic of how do we implement monitoring and evaluation accounts. Two questions. So we'll spend 20 minutes together in breakout rooms. I'm sure that it's not enough to really delve into the nitty gritty of everything but let's spark those those ideas and raise those critical questions that we can continue to explore collaboratively going forward. So without further ado, you will receive an invite now to join a breakout room. Thank you. Yanhain, well we'll begin by having all the note takers just feedback on what's being discussed before we go into the next session, but Yanhain, would you like to take a minute to update us. Yeah, do we have a specific style in which we want to do this or can I just reflect on some of the things that are being said that were said. So, an idea that was raised was at soil temperature to to measure our MNA framework, which was not really the question but it was an important one to name here, but some of the things that we could do in order to help the MNA framework being implemented at the camp level is connect to local universities or local institutions to help create a standardized toolbox with measuring and affect the tools in it that we can use for all the camps. There was a question, and it's nice to affect them is how much low tech do we want to use versus high tech in measuring the data so you know we can talk to the Google Earth and have all these automated instruments. There's much low tech versus high tech that we want to use. Further, we could use weather stations and connect through we fee and gather data on that way on an automated level. It was said that it should be simple and it could be used by everybody. There's a question or a comment that says, you know, please use something like a Google form and send a reminder to fill in the data, because it's not a top priority for some of the camp managers. Feel that you feel that you're being part of a global group that is filling in the data so you know the feeling that you're lagging behind the rest, for example. There was a point raised by john that says, you know, can we use proactive adaptive realization with real time data, which allows for a trend, a graphic display on what's happening. Productivity should follow function. And part of the data that was where we ended our discussion should be done, maybe automated by example. We should approach Google Earth and help us collect the data in an automated way. So these were some of the points that we can look to. And we'll be sending a report or notes for what we've collated today. Ash, would you like to feedback on your group? Yes, indeed. Hello everyone. Okay, so we are answering the question about how our framework can align with other research on ecosystem restoration. And my group had mainly camp coordinators or people working at the camps as data collectors and Bethany from the Society of Ecological Restoration. And she started off by telling us that she's part of a group that's working with the UN Decade to develop a set of common indicators for any biome that's still being developed. And there are loads of tools out there, but they're not really aligned or joined up. And in May, there'll be a draft that we can look at. And she also said, when we do monitoring, make sure it's holistic to look at a suite of indicators and metrics so that we can be sure that we know how things are working together and interacting. And then Sylvia said, there are certain tests that are more relevant to certain camps. So there should be a basic set of tests that all the camps do and then extra tests that are more specific with what the camps are doing in their contexts. So from the organica suggested that we create an online platform so that we can upload our results as CSV or GIS files. And this is an open source place where anyone can take the data and use it for further research. I spoke more in detail about scientific robustness when it comes to the camps all having exactly the same equipment. And I gave an example from Bolivia where they would like to get started on data collection now. Otherwise they need to wait until February, which is when the next rainy season comes around. We were wondering whether they should order the same penetrometer as the other camps in Europe are using, for instance, which will take three months to arrive. And Bethany and others said that it's more important to collect the data and as long as the same materials are used at the camp year on year, that comparison is more important than the same exact tools being used at different sites around the world. So that was basically what we discussed. And it's all written down on the jamboard if anyone else wants to have a look. We're a breakout room, session one. Scott, would you like to share? Sure, I'd be happy to. Had a great discussion and a few, but I think are really valuable questions for worries. Maybe the, the biggest is, is how can we translate the data that we gather through these tests into meaningful action and adaptation on the site at the camp. So, I'm sorry I didn't write down who brought up these ideas, but the concept is that we can use this data to better inform conversations between the camp managers and advisors and experts within the ecosystem restoration camps so that the camp can make better choices about design and strategy, and especially in monitoring the change in biodiversity that the camp can make better decisions about which, for example, plans to focus on planting and propagating at the camp. Someone asked a great question about creating videos, which would demonstrate how to do each of the tests, and I thought that could be a really valuable addition to the knowledge base that we can record these videos and create more detailed instruction sheets for each of the tests. And then the last big question that we brought up in the group was how can we address more social, the social benefits of ecosystem restoration within the framework. And so I think it was Charlene offered up a link of a of a monitoring project that has some relevant concepts and another concept that we brought up is looking at the impact on neighbors like farms and landowners who are starting to adapt to more sustainable and restorative practices. And that that can be an easy to measure metric if there's such and such number of neighbors who have incorporated at least one restorative practice. That ties in nicely actually to one of the topics we'll be looking at in the next section, so to be continued. Melissa, would you like to, and perhaps we can try and keep some of us a little bit shorter to leave enough time for discussions in the next. No problem, ours were pretty consolidated. So in break out room six we were discussing how best to implement monitoring and evaluation at the camps, and it's some great input. Let's see one of the ways the group felt that ERC could be helpful was arranging for local experts to actually come in and be their side to side with our camp coordinators to help them assess. So that way they could be asking questions in person and that actually helps create more excitement in the camps. Also, something that was brought up, which I feel is really important is potentially having camp specific camp manuals for each camp on monitoring and evaluation so that when people come in they know exactly what to expect within the framework and the manual, they feel that really should be easily understandable, translatable and easy to employ. And lastly, this was really everybody agreed upon is that they feel that what's best for M&E is having, they want to know what, if having automated data is better, or if yearly feedback is data, feedback data is better. So how often should we be monitoring and how much is enough. So discussing this with each camp and how much data collection is actually feasible and realistic is really important. Great, that's also another question that came out from the chat and will be one of the next topics. So cool to be continued as well. Cass, do you want to? Yeah, so we had a really good discussion around looking at is the framework aligned with research or with current research on ecosystem restoration and how can it is it poised really to contribute towards that. And Dr Leanne Ingham said that we really do need to ensure that we're looking more and examining the underground so we're examining the soil to understand what is going on below the ground to inform what is going on above the ground and we need to look at the biology in this world to get a more holistic understanding. And she also mentioned that that classes at the soil food web school will teach people how to use microscopes to do simple tests to come to some conclusions about the biology which is really important before one gets going with the testing. Also we had Igor in our group who mentioned that we need to, it's not probably not a good idea to have a general approach in each place. We really need to be looking at the natural evolution of the ecology in each place and that it's maybe not wise to apply the same metrics to different biomes. So we really need to first look at what exists in each place and how we can support that. Elaine Ingham also added to that that we need to define where in succession the study currently is to see whether we're going in the right direction and to understand the biology. Then we also dealt into looking at can we use generic tools or the more sort of DIY tools or alternatives at some of the camps to speed up the process to get going. Or do we need to wait until we have standard ad equipment at each of the camps. The feeling from Dr Ingham was that we don't need lots of sophisticated equipment, for example with the tramneters which are expensive, sorry the penetrometers, a bit of a tongue twister. And that we could use things like like metal rods for example to measure compassion of the soil which would provide adequate feedback and information. Ego actually responded to that though to say a very valid point and that's that if we're going to use alternative equipment. We need to have a little bit more training in place to ensure that there is some standardisation and that these alternative equipments are used in a beautiful fashion to ensure that the results that we achieve are still scientifically robust. Okay, thanks. Christina, and I'm going to ask you to do it as short and sweet as possible. All right, I'll be quick. So at the beginning of our discussion, we really reflected on the main questions behind the framework so why are we implementing the framework and what are we measuring and for whom are we doing this. So this is something that was highlighted as very important to really have a clear mission, a clear direction to really know where we are heading. This is a very important thing and it was highlighted through all of our discussion. Then this also led us to answering a very important fundraising question that where do we find actually the funding to help us by the instruments that are needed and so on. And whenever these questions are clear, whenever the direction is clear for the experience of the people who were in my breakout room, sorry, I forgot also to write down who said what, but from the experience. This is really what will take us to have a clear picture for the funders and therefore to have our needs funded. Then we focused a lot on concrete actions and basically we focused on how to bring volunteers to camps. And it's important to have like a sort of certificate that could be handed to these volunteers because many people are actually looking for a sort of recognition for the work and the time that they're offering. So this is something we could consider. This would definitely help us collect and find more volunteers. Then it would also be good for volunteers not to basically take with them all the skills that they have field learning during their journey, but to share them with other volunteers. So to make sure that this knowledge stays inside and sort of creating training of trainers for volunteers. And other, I'll try to be very quick, other very important topics that were touched were also developing traditions and records keeping in monitoring and evaluation. This is also very important and the sort of establishing a research protocol, which basically means to have again questions that are clear to again have clear questions to answer. And this is really what matters. And we discussed more things, but they are in the in the board. Yeah, which we will be sharing. Cool. Thank you. Sounds like a lot of practical things. Really helpful and a lot of new questions. So, which is always good. More questions, more questions. And I hope that this next section, because we won't be able to answer all of these things now will raise more of these critical questions. So in this next breakout session, and I think we'll meet for 15 minutes in this breakout session now. We'll be discussing these next these six questions. I think to save enough time to discuss together I'm going to invite you to join the groups directly and explore the question in your group. And then you should have an invite and you can join a group now. Okay, I think we're all back. So we will be going five minutes over. If you need to leave on the hour, then we will be sending an update or summary of everything that's been discussed today, but obviously welcome you to stay for the last five moments. Jump straight into getting a report back from the note taker, shall we? And I'm going to challenge you to summarise the most salient points in 60 seconds. So, Ash. We were talking about how to avoid indirect and hard to interpret assessments. It's important to understand what the results are actually telling us. For example, carbon in the soil doesn't tell us about the fungal and bacterial elements in the soil. And then we were talking about different ways that we can measure soil carbon. There's a method called Walkley black, which measures carbon in the soil, but it also measures it measures inorganic carbon, as well as organic. It's not perfect either. She was mentioning that there are X-ray measurements that you can do that are quite expensive. And she's going to sit down and look at the rest of the tests to tell us which ones she thinks could be hard to interpret. I also told the group about the training that we're planning to do with Elaine so that the camp managers can be skilled up on how to use microscopes and assess soil biology in compost and the soil that they're restoring. And then Daniel mentioned an open source material or an open source tool to measure soil carbon, which looks very interesting and has sent a link. And then he also suggested that we do a test on measuring the nutrients in plants, which is an example of nutrient cycling, which is a key ecosystem function that we haven't included in our framework. OK, bro, thanks. Christina. I have to unmute myself. So, yeah. The question that we discussed was how do you determine which tests are appropriate for each camp? And then you've started the conversation saying that this is a very challenging question for a camp paradise specifically because they work in different communities. So this idea of standardized indicators which are adaptable, but I still standardize to a certain extent it's good. But they have difficulties because implementing the monitoring and evaluation in the different zones they are working on is quite challenging. And we have a similar comment, another comment, which was about knowing specifically what are the tests that are relevant in terms of understanding whether the camp is being successful in removing chemicals from the soil. And this is also a very specific question and something that was suggested was a specific question was that in general looking at the diversity, the biodiversity and the plants that are growing on the site can really help us understand whether the soil is cleaning up or is still loaded with chemicals. And that also generate improvement of course of the situation could help us understand whether the site is being cleaned and the situation is generally improving. So the idea is that the basic idea that we discussed is that the framework is a standardized framework, but at the same time it's kind of flexible so the camps should be able to adapt to their needs. So for each camp that they have a need on focusing on the most relevant indicators, they definitely should, for the camps that they have a need to focus on the indicators that are relevant for the monitoring and evaluation collection at the foundation level. So the indicators that are very well listed in the framework, then of course this is very important but also it's important to respond to the local needs. So at the same time, this specific needs can be added. So this framework is intended to be something overarching and not something that is meant to be like something very, very, very defined but can be adapted. Sorry, I have discussed many things so I hope I was clear in referring what we discussed were the main ideas. Yeah, it's a tough one. I think it's really clear Christina, but I think Mick has something that he wanted to just comment on really quickly. Really quickly, I think it was an idea that's been hovering around for a while as well. But if we can really understand what we call ecosystem function and what are these core indicators that we can measure across all the camps so that then we can aggregate and have some really cool figures of what the restoration camps movement is doing. Then having that basis established and usable for all of the camps, we can of course expand into more context specific indicators and I really love that idea and I'm eager to develop that further. Okay. Scott, do you want to feed back report back. I would love to. So our, our question was how can we improve the measuring of biodiversity at the camps. And so some of the thoughts that came up in our discussion. One of the one big question that was brought up was in order to have consistent and meaningful testing, we have to determine and even negotiate what scale of testing and surveying is feasible at a given camp. That a lot of the biodiversity measurement is going to come through the plots, the quadrats. And so one is mapping all of the quadrats and plots at at a camp for consistent data collection. And another is strata finding strategies to help a camp scale up the number of survey plots that they're able to observe. Another discussion we had was also monitoring wildlife animals and birds cited at the camp and it was mentioned that it's already in the framework or already in discussion for the final framework but to encourage the camps to keep a daily diary of animal and bird sightings that can offer valuable and fun to collect data on a long term basis. Okay, and thanks Scott, Melissa. I'll try to be fast. So group record room number six was discussing how can we overcome many implementation challenges at a camp level. And we had two main main ideas, the two issues were communication and evaluation test flexibility for the certain types of climate and terrain that each camp is on. So it actually a Christina and I helped, I think had a lot of the same feedback. So basically, just if there could be a way to have alternative testing that gives you the same kinds of input specifically on monitoring that preparation, that would be helpful. Also, how can each camp coordinator pick the priority test for specific types of landscapes that they're currently on. They think that it would be helpful to have a specific type of framework for each type of climate and you know soil that that would help guide them to say okay this test is the most important thing to start with so that's that is also important subject that we discussed and sharing sharing right now is really important about the technical issues from the very beginning of camp installation from the original camps about their monitoring in which tools they had problems with or had success with and the best way to facilitate data sharing and making sure that all the data doesn't get lost between the camps. And actually, there was one more thing I'm sorry. And if there was a way to maybe have yearly or bi yearly surveys from camps and their campers so that each camp could stay in the loop and know what's going on. It's more in depth in the notes. Our session discussed really how does the vision of camps build on the context of place. And the comments that we started the discussion off with was around the need for really to harvest information from the local community. So it's so important to understand the community to go out into the community is not just the people at the camps but the people and the farmers and the people living in the village and everyone in the surrounding community to understand them and where they're at and to look at how that relationship is going to pan out between the camps and them. And I think the point that was really highlighted there was that we're restoring relationships between the people and the land, which is why those interviews with people in the community are important. And then our conversation actually turned into a bit of a case study around functional forests in Turkey. It was interesting camp to look at as a case study because the guys there were saying that when you've got the opportunity to speak with people who've got the relationship with the land that's great but it's more challenging when you don't and this is what they're struggling with the moment. And what they did mention that is they are, they are producing things to fund their restoration activities at the camp and this is how they're engaging with local people in their activities. And at which point Paul suggested well, there actually are developing a system in response to their place where they're at at the moment so they're actually inadvertently they're actually finding the solution to the need to engage and to connect the people with the land. So that's a great landscape. Um, Cath, just want to leave enough time for your time as well. Do you mind? That's fine. I'm going to wrap up right there. Okay. Yeah, thank you. We are trying to answer the question how long do we need to take measurements. And basically outcome was a really difficult question to answer. So we did not come to specific timeframe. The discussion went into that some interventions on, for example, syntropic farming. At the start, you see that a lot of things are happening so for example you should be adaptive and measure more in a shorter term, and then later on while the system settles, you know, you can take longer periods between the measurements. The idea is that we should be adaptive in how we monitor and evaluate. So even if we measure of the length of the camp, we should be flexible on what we measure and how often we measure things because depending on the relevance over the time frame of that camp. So things do change and you know we need to be adaptable to it. It's a warning was said that, you know, if we add a specific timeframe to it, it leads to a financial time commitment of the camps, you know, can they carry that. And a recommendation basically that there are cheaper ways to monitor change over a longer period, for example, to take snapshots and create a time lapse, which you know it's a one time investment, but it leads to an overview of the length of the project. I'm amazed to hear how much has been discussed in what is actually a short time with everyone so well we're at the end now but I'd like to thank everyone for all of your insight and the time that you've given and commitment to come together today. And perhaps we can close with we are over time but perhaps we can close with with a minute final reflection from john and I think Peter has a final comment to make john do you have a final reflection you'd like to share. Yes, I think that you know we're going to have to spend the rest of our lives in doing this, so it would be really good if we have a point. I think that maybe, or maybe, maybe Peter and yarn hind can define where, where the, the thoughts should go and everybody should continue to to consider these ideas because this is not something for any individuals to to decide it's up to a collective intelligence. We have this concept of living laboratories is so good, and so useful and so practical that we can engage everyone and as soon as we learn anything it should spread to all the camps. So thank you so much for all that you're doing around the world. That's that's perfectly said john and we will be launching the monitoring elevation framework on the first June. So I think that will also be another wonderful opportunity to come together and continue these discussions. Peter, do you like to. Yeah, I'd like to say thank you to everyone who came to this meeting. And spending another two hours behind zoom. Thanks for that. It's not easy. I've realized trying to get the science in the hands hands of non scientifically trained people, people is going to be a challenge. And they just mentioned the knowledge platform which we hope can help there. I do want to particularly thank Mick because he did this as an internship, and did an awesome job in that internship in developing a first series of tests which are now subjected to your criticisms. So that's that's also an awesome thing. And I want to thank pay, because I don't know you facilitate it didn't facilitate many meetings in the in the past, so you took on this challenge. So, thanks for that, and everyone else for being here. I give it back to say to bring it to a close. I wanted to also say another big thank you for john for pulling together all your friends and and experts and just thank you to everyone. Let's keep it up.