 Welcome to documentation office hours. It is the 20th of September. Great to have everyone here. So topics that I had on the agenda to dot 313 change log review, October Fests with two ideas there. And then a contributing to open source workshop at DevOps world that I wanted to discuss any other topics others would like to bring. I created some issues. And I wanted to know if you've seen them and if you wanted to yell at me or if I've done them right. Good. Okay, so let's let's so what we would do is review issues on Jenkins dot IO repo. Yes. Good. Okay, let's do that. All right, very good. And that's something we should probably systematically do. Okay, any other topics. Okay. All right, well, so then, do you guys let's take on the change log review. So I'm going to maximize my screen so what I saw was developer is still first in the list. Then there is one that came later that as far as I can tell is not developer that probably should have been earlier in the list. But other than that. So developer but in this case it's developer and an RFE and so I think what it's choosing is it's putting bugs after RFEs, even if they are developer and this developer RFE should be after the bug. I think So we need to move this developer entry to the end right. We do but I think we'll have to do it after the release because if we move it now, the tool will just put it back. So I just noted I guess maybe what we should do is is in the change log generator. We ought to ought to record something there about no not that one about this one where we say, see it's probably in here and change log generator. Or is that the place where the where the, I don't remember actually now that I'm thinking about it. Where is the change log generator repository. There it is. Okay, let's find it here. Okay, so this one. I think we ought to Oh, here it is order. Okay, this is. This is the one where we probably ought to update it and say developer and internal entries are always to be after any entries that are not flagged with developer or internal. 2.313 automated change log placed developer and internal before a but RFE's before a bug that was neither developer nor internal. Fair enough. Okay. Alright, so, and that one will just have to fix after the fact. I saw this and the entry one thing. I've gone in actually and remove that already so the next time it gets reordered. The next time it gets regenerated it will it will take out that entry one. Let's see that was in the GitHub core. Pull requests. So I just wanted to show you that I made that edit. Okay, so this one, it now says allow a plug into dynamically insert jars into its class path. So phrased in the present tense, simple sentence. Okay, good for you to rise if we go with that phrasing. Yes, so just to confirm the jar shouldn't be capitalized or it's good this way. In other locations in the change that's a good question and other locations in the change log as far as I recall it's not capitalized. Be sure though, good question. Content data change logs. So let's look real quickly at usages of jar. Oh, no, there are two cases where it's uppercase here. All right, so good catch. Okay, when used as a file name suffix. It's done in lower case but that makes sense. Oddly enough, there is no case in the LTS where it where it uses the word jar. Interesting. Okay, let's go back to weekly uppercase uppercase uppercase. I think you're right. I think it's supposed it stands for Java archive right. How does Java do it? Oracle, how to write jar. Creating and they do it all uppercase. Yeah. Very good. Nice catch to you, Raj. But then I see jar command options. Yeah, because it is a jar, a lower case jar command, right. Well, it's got jar arguments. Not like this. It's either a jar file into its class path or jar files. Oh, yes. There you go. Very good. I like that. Okay. Singulars and florals are so silly. Right. Allow a plugin to dynamically insert a jar file into its class path. Okay, good. Nice catch. Thank you. That's one I had not considered excellent. All right, so. So we've reviewed this one. Now we've got another one which is the PR title is remove Akuma. And we really should look at this one because I'm fascinated by it. I missed completely what the subject of the thing was. Okay, so long description about why this thing is existing. That tells us, Hey, there was this old library that was at last release six years ago. And it doesn't seem to be used by any plugin. It's only used by core in two places and it really doesn't isn't used for its primary reason it used for these two things and notice the class name calm that son so explicitly a reserved class for son. And really nothing we should would want to trust. And so what he did was basil who created it says suggested this as the description or suggested a description around that and I created that text so let's see. He said, I think the main appointment is the demon argument to Java has been removed without replacement. He recommended use the removed keyword. I think he's right. Sorry, I hope I didn't deafen you. Okay, so. So the idea was remove the demon argument from Jenkins command line arguments replace the Akuma library with simpler implementations using process tree. And then in the when we get to the LTS we'll have to include this in the upgrade guide. So have we checked the whole source to see if that dash dash demon are going to showing up in other examples. And that's going to be a nightmare of a thing because people sometimes do screenshots rather than coded in. Yeah, so I would be shocked if it did occur but let's find it that's a good question. See how do I add. Let's just. We'll look for demon will quote dash dash demon do it. I, I didn't think so but let's try it. Yeah, there we go. Okay the dash the double dashes says end of arguments. Okay, so partials change log dash old. So this is only referenced in an archive change logs and archive change logs there's really we don't change them because that would be attempting to change history. Right. So 1.500 1.397 things that are ancient. Okay, good question Meg. So, answer is not used not referenced in any documentation any current documentation. We have a command line that they do a screenshot of right and that one. I think we accept that. If we see it will. If someone complains will fix it. Right. Okay so anything else on this one. Okay. Next one then a regression fix. Jcast configurations could not refer to view related permissions. In two dot 302. And I think that's fine, although it needs to be up at the top here before the developer and before the internal. But it's a good, good description. Any objections to that one. So let me write a description to one entry. Do we talk about the fix, or do we describe the problem. I think we want to describe the problem in, in terms that the user will understand you feel like that's not describing the problem. I think it's just describing the problem. So I thought, but I don't know about this. Yes, well so here's, here's what the user perceives when they try to, when they try to start up Jenkins 2.303.1 with a particular definition in their configuration as code it fails. So now, good question, how could we, we could say it allow Jcast configurations to again, define view related permissions. No way to say, oh yeah, so this was a regression in 302. So it did get into 303.1. And so we will need this as well in 303.2 is change log. Okay. So other suggestions for how to phrase it. Dirac, go ahead. What is exactly the messages. Okay, all right. Yeah, I mean we could, we could, we could start the sentence with a verb. Instead of starting with a noun. But for me it feels okay make any guidance from you on this one. So, I'm wanting to go more prosaic and that's probably being a writer not a geek. I live in the Netherlands between the two some writers often find me too geeky. I mean a little bit of me wants to say that in 2.302 and it actually lists the really all the releases that are affected. That the permission groups and permissions were not registered appropriately and this meant that the Jcast configurations could not refer something in that order but that's probably too verbose right. Well, and so that that's good what you're highlighting the the that the behavior is Jenkins fails to start. Right. And so, if if we want to switch the phrasing I would. We could use something with allow Jenkins to start with view related permission group definitions or view related permission definitions because of permission group and permission are both part of it so allow Jenkins to start with a view related permissions definition in Jcast configuration. It doesn't sound like it's resonating with you still. It's, I, I can't dance to it Denise. And that's an old song that you probably don't know. Remember Welcome Back Cotter. I do but I don't remember that song. I remember Welcome Back Cotter. Yeah. Jenkins will start fine if you haven't used Jcast right. And Jenkins will start fine if you have not defined a view related permission in Jcast. Right. If you defined a view related permission in Jcast 2.303.1 would fail to start. That sounds good. What you just said. Yeah but but we want to phrase it in the in I think we want to phrase it in the form of what was fixed not what was brought up. Okay. Let's see. Got anything that you do it's that way is complicated the simple stuff about how about allow Jcast configurations to define view related permissions. Here I'm going to put the text in here. We know it can't can't do this but allow to define view related permissions. Period. Can we have a second sentence that says, I'm also wondering the regression in 2.302 makes sense to people who live in QA I have to do a double take on to what it means. Could we have a second sentence that says in releases, whatever, and tell what all of them are. We could, we could but we've never done that for any, any of these previous this is this is this regression in 302 syntax is a standard thing of the change log. We can keep to the standard yeah. And allow Jenkins to start when the Jcast configuration defines. Oh, good, good. That's very good. Like that. Yeah, that Oh that actually, I could dance to that I think. Okay, great. Yeah. So let's take that on. And we're going to go. Here and see if I can find the poll request here. Okay. I like the phrase, I can dance to it. Okay, is that all right. Yes. Yes. We got that one good. All right. And we can cancel that because we'll let it come in from all right good. Next one then. Okay. So web suck connections did not work when the Jenkins controller was running Java 11 and using self terminated TLS. Okay, so web suck connections now work when or. Yeah, now let's see. So, okay, so how do we phrase it in the present tense and. Yeah, exactly. Okay, so I think that I think it's web. Let me bring up that work make it now work. Right. Okay. So, okay, so web socket connections. Work, even when the jink is running. Java 11. Is that how we say the Jenkins is running. Jenkins running Java 11 sounds to me like they've got a Java 11 agent. Jenkins is running on Java 11 that is that. Yeah, what is the proper terminology. Yeah, it's, I might use on or with, I don't know that I've got a better so, so I was more concerned about this even so. Yeah. Or could website connections now work when. Oh, yes, there you go. That's very good. Okay. Hang on, I've got an urgent call that I need to take I'll be right back. Okay. Sure. So, make. I'm not really good at grammar, but should this work be work or books. Now connections now work. Okay. Yeah, that works. English is weird that the verb is doesn't have an S to go for. So much. So you do origami or only for red hats. I did it. Three, two years ago for my college committee project where we are. I was in charge of decoration something. So I made dinosaurs little dinosaurs using origami. So that was the first time. And this is the second time. So not a regular one. Okay. It's fascinating. I'm not artistic. But when I was a kid, I learned to make a box and there was like a decision maker that you get a certain I don't know that it told you yes no or maybe or something. Yes, I never learned to make a crane, which seems to be the one origami thing that everybody learns first. So, so what are your interests then my interests outside of work. I studied medieval Jewish history and the university and I still study that a little in my spare time. So I do, I do history and I've expanded I do more history now than I did when I was actually a student where I narrowed down now I can study more stuff. Well, that's that's geeky right. And you were saying you're not. I'm a technical geeky but and as far as I mean, you know the Middle Ages, actually the Middle Ages had a lot of technological innovations. And I'm heavily involved they have a dog and two rabbits. And they take a lot of time so and I'm a boring person. I don't do exciting things. You have dog and rabbit. I have a dog and two house rabbits. Yes. Wow. That's really nice. Yeah. And about me, you mean outside of work, right? Yes. So I like to sketch and I started doing facial portraits. So I even I start, I mainly draw facial portraits of humans and I do it with the help of charcoal pencil. And so I made a sketch of myself as well. It's pretty embarrassing to say that I sketched myself but it turned out to be pretty good. Leonardo did it. It's good enough for Leonardo. It's good enough for me. I didn't know about that. That's great. Some people think that the Mona Lisa is a self portrait actually. Of Leonardo? Yeah. In drag I guess. I mean he turned himself female but they think that that may indeed have been his face that he used for that. So it's very fit. The Mona Lisa painting is very famous due to what I don't know much about it. So it's some geometrical calculations of the facial feature or what? Yeah. I just I don't know that much about it. I just remember reading that someplace that several art historians have speculated that the Mona Lisa might be a self portrait. They didn't go into whether that was just because it was a face he liked or was it it was his sexual identity? I mean was he a transvestite? I haven't seen anybody who went that direction on it. But it doesn't mean there hasn't been somebody so. Right. And I think it's all speculation too so. So but you are artistic then. Yes. I admire that I am so I did like music and poetry and all of that sort of stuff in school but the plastic arts. I got thrown out of an art class because I wasn't trying to find my darndest. But she couldn't believe that I did all these other things and that I had absolutely no abilities in the plastic arts. Not the high. You said you do music and poetry, right? I did when I was in school. Yes, I've long lost everything I once knew. Oh, Mark's off the phone. He's going to make us work again. Oh, okay. I thought you had solved all the world's problems and I was ready to hear the solutions. We have, did you know that garage is an artist, a sketch artist? I did not. Well, that's oh so so you might be willing to to consider donating some sketches for the Jenkins logo and that kind of thing, or is it or is logo not your style you you rather do real life. Yes, I do actually a real life pencil, charcoal pencil sketches, but I can definitely try the logo. I went through the collection and I was not I think there is no logo from India. Yeah, well I think there's one from Bengaluru. But there are plenty of there's plenty of opportunity for other logos that is, there are so many ways that we could do parodies and spoofs and there's so much fun to be had with artwork if you've actually got talent. I have no talent when it comes to that. But I actually have a question for dirage. I, all the stuff we do it seems to me that it's very Western Europe centric. Does it seem that way to you in India. I mean maybe we should have more diversity and some of our logos and stuff. Maybe they should. By all the stuff we do you mean in Jenkins. I do not feel that way because Jenkins is not an Indian company so this is what I would expect. So this is the Jenkins Hyderabad. That's the one that we have from from an Indian locale. I don't mean I was wrong it's not Bengaluru it's Hyderabad. Okay, that's great. Even I'm not sure which building is this. Yeah, me neither I assume it's some technology building there. Yes, Bengaluru and Hyderabad are the tech savvy places of India. So that must be that's a great idea. I just want I mean it seems to me like the British butler would have some unhappy overtones in India from the history or you just use to it. Well, I don't know because I don't think of it that way. It's not a problem for me. Okay, the stuff in the last year you know just realizing other groups think of things differently than you know than one might. So I've just been wondering about that if this looks awfully Euro centric to you guys or it looks just fine. I'm not the right person because I don't usually think about things this way. It just I accepted that way and don't have much opinions on. Okay. So this is not at all. Okay, so I am back to the Web socket connections. Did we did you come up with a phrasing that you prefer or. I think that looks good to me. Yes. Okay, all right, so I'm going to I'm going to go rephrase that one. See if we've got the pull request referenced we don't so it's 5716. Everything's okay from your phone call mark. I just learned that I've got some additional responsibilities I need to take care of but I can't do anything about them until after we're done here and it there's no emergency it's just. So one of one of my church responsibilities we did a major change yesterday and I'm doing the follow ups and then tomorrow I fly to Alaska to visit my grandson or my grandson. Exciting. Oh yes, it's going to be great. It will be a wonderful grandchildren are marvelous everyone should have they are absolutely wonderful. But the only way you get grandchildren to have to go a lot through the work of raising children that and that is that I've had that conversation with my kids actually that sometimes I wondered if we should have skipped the kids thing and gone straight to grandkids. Many people after meeting my animals think it is a good thing that I did not try to raise human children. Okay, so I have updated that text. And so we've got that one corrected. All right. Now let's let's take a brief look at the ones that have been commented to see if there are any there that you feel like should not be commented. No, they look all good to me. Okay, so as far as any others any objections for anyone else. Okay, great. So let's call this part done. We've got other topics I want to be sure we get to updated the pull request descriptions to Yeah, that's just called that. All right issues on Jenkins that I want to log that there's that ordering issue that we're not touching but oh yes right recorded issue. Developer and internal after everything else should be good. Thank you. Okay. All right, so let's, let's go to our issues on Jenkins.io so here if we look at github Jenkins. Oops Jenkins.io and the issues and we would like to see the author of that fingers. Okay. So 12345 that about what you expect. Right yeah, and it could have been one I looked at that security session section at the hot mess. Okay. And I think you might know where I'm planning to get my source to do this writing and wanted to make sure that this is not going to cause any problems. I think you want to talk to Daniel, and he's, he's been one of the ones leading the effort to help improve security descriptions. Well I was going to go back to some material that the three of us did a couple of years ago. Oh, oh good. Oh, I haven't, which is all right now that's what I mean I thought that's a low hanging fruit, it won't make right good idea right. The agreement is that between you and Tammy that you just stay out of each other's way right. It is if in general though if it's if the content you're bringing is from cloud bees, then I think she wanted some acknowledgement that it was cloud bees content. Okay, so, so there would have to be a some sort of a thing at the bottom of it describing that came from cloud bees but I think I think that's an interesting interesting idea go for it. Because I also think she's probably going to toss it. And if I want to get it preserved so it doesn't get lost. Right right exactly. Okay, so that's what I'm going to do is I'm going to do some writing and they all I mean there's like some of those things get mentioned in four different files and if you put it all together you start to get the information. So but I'm going to do what I can do quickly and put out PRs. And then we can do PRs if we want to do more on any of the topics or whatever. Well, and, and the cool thing about PRs to security to any security topic is that it automatically gets labeled with a security label, and therefore gets triggered for Daniel Beck and others on the security team to review it. Okay, that's really good because you some you propose something and see if I can see it secure. No. Hmm. Okay, just a minute. I don't think it got I think it got automatically tagged this documentation. That that I would believe but I think if I watch if I look at let's look at one that's authored by Daniel. Okay, because that off fingers again. That will give us a likelihood of finding something. Yeah, you must be right. I thought that they were automatically flagged with a security but apparently not somewhere I saw something that maintainers may be able to add the security flag. Yeah, but this was this was, I thought this was him. Yeah, why not. Huh. I thought that they were labeled for that they know, apparently not just my mistake. So but nonetheless I think you should invite reviews from Daniel. Just because I think that's a great. Yeah, and, and then now when I go to do a PR, how do I tie the PR to an issue. So what you do is you you just reference the issue by issue number inside your description. So you say, let's see if we can find one that's already got it that way so recently closed. Like, that's not yet so let me show you how to do it and we'll just, it's when you do it what all you do is you put in the. Let's find this one. If we were saying that it was resolving an issue we would insert into the text here resolves or fixes number the hash mark, and then up comes the list of issues. So this is the list of poll requests. I need issue 4568. Okay, so back to where I was. So if you'll just put in there. Issue like that OPS. Number 4568 notice that it detected that and it will then create the link and if it doesn't, then we have one of the maintainers can create the link here. Okay. Okay good let me I will do it and you go to Alaska when you come home I should have some stuff out there. Great. Excellent. Thank you. Thanks for being willing to do that. That's wonderful. Is that is that a worthy way I was going to ask you what you really needed but I looked at that and I knew that is a hot topic. Yes, I have some material that I think I can do something fairly quickly to maybe not make it perfect but definitely improve what we've got. And so I just thought I'd go for it. Right. So I'll just review from Daniel Beck. And for Vodek Falone. I'm not close to the chat group too right. Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, did you hear my I tried to send you mail by the way, my the whatever the slack group is for the community. I'm tied to with my old with my cloudbies address, not my personal address. Yeah, so there's this if you want to use slack as a slack channel you'd have to use the CDF slack channel. Right. So can I just enroll myself in that or do I have to be you can you should be you should be able to enroll yourself and if not let me know and I'll, I'll figure out how to get you invited. Okay, I because I tried to do it but I may have just missed something so okay. Okay. Okay, yeah and I definitely did see your email so your email is getting to me. Okay, good. Because I still can't build locally I've got, I got Docker running but there's a press something about Ruby is a problem that I may try it out. Interesting. Okay, and upgrading to Ubuntu 18 has cost me my sound. Oh no, I have never in my life done a software upgrade that didn't cost me something that I love. Okay, so noted, we'll need to discuss it. Next week we won't be able to because I won't be available so actually let me make a note of that. So no meeting next week. Yeah, I have to cancel next week at least for me because because they play with grandchildren and talk to us yeah yeah yeah. Because I'll be traveling home from Alaska that day and will be exhausted and non functional. I'll be non functional smarter than most people but on their best days but that's good. Okay. Okay. Actually it's called canceled due to DevOps world because that's right DevOps world. Yeah, we probably shouldn't do it in here. Okay, enough of me and my pathetic problems. So here's a proposal. This one I wanted to review with the two of you as to how we approach this thing and I'll be presenting this idea at the contributor summit October 2 as part of the intro to Okay, so, so I think we should encourage contributions to migrate plugin documentation from the wiki to get up. And we showed how to do that last week. Yeah, see last week's recording. And we need to we need to codify it needs to be in the to be in the Jenkins.io document doc set, you know docs, but that that can that can be done. Eventually, I don't have to do that immediately. Right. And we also need the recording stored on YouTube because it's not there yet. Okay. So the idea I had was how do we decide which things to work on because there are 1000 plugins that need that transformation but they aren't all of equal value. Right. So what I thought was, Okay, which ones are most likely to get attention. If we submit a poll request if a new contributor submits a poll request and I thought, first idea would be, what if we look at the ones that were released, most recently. That were released by release date and the newest first, and we've got over 100 in the last 12 months that have been released, at least once in the last 12 months. Therefore, I think it's pretty reasonable pool. Let's start with that and sort by last release date. The alternative is we could sort by installs but the sort by installs is sometimes misleading as you see here. Last week we did Ansible, but it's actually number 91 in the most recent recent release list. But, and these and this is these are only ones that have not yet been converted right. Correct. All the ones that have been converted already removed from the sheet. Do it by strict formula. I don't know why we I mean we could also put a, we could also put a priority column over here on the left and do it 12345 and whatever priority order we want. I would defer to you because I'm thinking that a mix of when released and how popular it is. I mean we know Ansible is a big one and getting bigger right. It is except the dismaying thing there is. Okay, one week ago I submitted that pull request right. And there has been zero activity on that pull request from any of the maintainers. And I specifically mentioned one of the maintainers in the comment. So, so I thought, oh, here I am I'm a credible voice in the, in the community I'm a relatively recognized voice and yet it still didn't get any attention. And, and therefore a brand new contributors probably going to get even less attention. And so the other was, once we decide hey this is our list, I will do my best to extract the names of the maintainers and send them email asking for them to agree to review the pull requests. Yes. Now, and then you can adjust the priorities. Right, then I can go to go ahead. Some of the wikis are really good have really good information, some of them are crap. I'm sorry that's not a nice term. Some of them could be higher quality and more complete in their information. And tell and tell the contributors though that this is a chance. Can you I mean, I'd ask them if they can attend Hacktoberfest. I think it would be great if somebody popped up and said I will do this one and they said here's your contribute here's your maintainer will work with you. Yeah, I'm, and that for me, I'll just be grateful if I get them to reply to an email message. Right. Most of them, I suspect will just ignore my email but I think you've got a good point that we, we ought to ultimately have a priority column that we use to decide where we want to put the priority for for the people who are arriving to make a contribution. Right, which your estimate how long, when somebody's up and running, what's it going to take about an hour per plug in to do this do you think. Yeah, so you figure last time we did it in 40 minutes or less. Yeah, and so I'm hopeful. Now I do need the two of you to do an experiment for me. So by opening this sheet and commenting on the contributor column. So I'm going to paste into the chat, the, the URL to the sheet so dirage and Meg could you open that sheet in your web browser, and choose one of the one of the contributor ID columns here and add a comment. I'm not sure if the idea I proposed it will even work. I need to get rid of my second copy. Okay, so I see somebody just arrived there anonymous Liger. Good. Okay, and now have you been a okay, and there is your comment. Okay, good. So it shows you. Okay, so then I could, as an owner of the spreadsheet I could go in then and say, dirage job. And is that your contributor your Oh, is that your, your GitHub ID did I get it right. Yes. Okay, good. So that's what I would do and that would then replace your comment. Good. Thank you. All right, thanks, dirage. Okay, I'm being a class here. So the technique you did was you, you just connected to it and had to do some right click action to comment. Exactly. I only get to option with that right click. It's just copy or comment. Okay. Comment is a right click action. Right click and it gives you an option to comment only I commented it and it gave me a check but oh, and there's your comment. The list. I guess you have to approve that to get into a column. Well, it does show up. But it only shows up so it shows up as this little tiny square right here or little tiny tiny triangle on the top right. And then I can just email usually when you do a comment, and then I can go take action based on the email. Oh, make commented on this. Oh, okay. So then here what I would do is I would put it like that. And then I would delete your comment, or I could just leave your comment. And likewise here. And so now your comment is there gives me a record that you're the one who put the comment and there is my entry for who's assigned to it. And if somebody spams it. I can do this. Oh, you're already deleted. I can do this to, oops, where is it to mark has resolved and hide discussion. Okay. Yeah, but I think you've got a lot of knowledge about these things in a lot of ways. And I think, I think you should cut the top list to assign to people. Yeah, and that if we have 400 people show up who want to do six a day. We'll get them started on what's there and you can go off and make your list bigger. Well, I breath for that happening. Yeah, certainly, certainly we've got, we've got more work than I expect to ever get don't get ever get contributors we've got plugins if we just go back five years. There are many of us like me who use plugins that were last released five years ago. I go back five years. It's still that's over 500 plugins. So. Yeah. And then, but there's also going to be, I'm thinking what we ran into with she codes Africa is it some of the most important plugins are these like, I don't know what they are the native ones that are at the, the bottom building blocks of Jenkins I found it was impossible to get anybody who wanted to talk about those when the she coders need help right. And that's, that's one of the risks right is another way I thought of going through this list was look for in this list for any that are in the list of plugins that I use that are not documentation is code, because if I'm using it. It's, it's probably a relatively active plugin. So you're right there are many different ways we could, we could treat this thing. And you can, your judgment. I mean I've never known you not to have it was a judgment and stuff but in this case. I think you could, you know, make the best quick. You can go, you know, and you can sort of look at the by age and the frequency and something that's a month old and has two users and maybe not so prior or maybe something it's about to blow up and you know that in six months we're going to have thousands of users on it. Right, and those, those are all good insights right something that it may be that we ought to wait the order of magnitude of the, the installs right somehow recently installed but only 13 installation recently released but only 13 installations just doesn't make that effort. Right. It's like a brand new technology that we expect to get really popular. Right. And, and yeah, good, good insight. Okay, good. So we'll consider adding a let's just do it now then let me just do that. And if someone is up in October festival I really wanted to work on such and such a plugin if they really care fine. Right. We have another priority column here. And for now the priority column is going to stay empty, but I'll I can put whatever formula we want in there to to use that priority to for that priority column. Good. Okay, right. And you could actually, if you wanted to you could comment your priorities. Like, this is an extremely important plugin but we're not going to be able to get any good reviews on the PR. Right. And that's something like that. So also the priority for October. Yeah. That works for me. What do you think your eyes. Yes, I think that would be good. Did I see somewhere you need somebody else to help on October fast. It's, it's not on October fast. I mean, yeah, so that's the last topic before we close. I believe this one improving online help off the list, because for me it's too, it's too heavyweight needs too much involvement for it to be successful we saw that with she code Africa we were able to make it successful, at least in getting them introduced but too much involvement. So I've got a workshop that I'm scheduled to do the 28th of September, but my co presenter Oleg Nanashiv is not available. And so what I was, I was hoping I could persuade Kristen but she's not here today. So I may talk with her separately anyway and see if there's, if there are others what I dirage you might be might be a candidate for this one, except that it really looks for somebody who's done plugin development previously. I'm not hesitant to put you in the in this you'd be a great lab assistant, but you may not be able to answer questions related to plugin development that that others would. This is true. I want to attend the section but just to learn. Yeah, and, and, and I don't know what the registration is right now it's the ideas will have a 90 minute session. My goal is that each participant should submit a poll request to a plugin of their choice to help them adopted to begin the process of adopting it. And that they should submit a poll request to convert a one of the plugins from wiki docs to get to get a base docs. So the idea there is already on September 28. From 10 to 50 of these will have been had a poll request submitted already. Yeah. And we'll test the process and if the process falls over dead will rapidly refine it. Yeah. Okay, so I apologize I'm running out of time any other topics before we end. I'm good get you on that plane. I do dirage anything from you. I think from my side. All right, thanks to both of you and I'll try to get the recording posted in the not too distant future. Thanks. We'll talk in a couple of weeks right. Yes, it'll be two weeks before we meet again. Okay.