 13 people could die in a police action in one day cannot be something in which a transparency of the executive at the top most levels together with their corporate bosses. I am categorically saying that they definitely had the very fact that they went to court on the 18th of May asking for a 144 was an indication of the part of this conspiracy. Why am I agitated? I am agitated because in this country which is a democracy which is such a constitution till today the secret behind the killings of 16 persons in Tutokorin on 22nd of May is not known to the public. There is a conspiracy of dispossess that the NHRC has come up with that in every case of a human rights defender that you take up the cases are taken but the cases are closed. They are publicly published and taken and they are quietly and silently closed. When I speak about the ADMK, I speak about the BJP ADMK combined. It is just in political terms they call it A party, B party. In our parlance both of them were the same party. They tried to act differently, they tried to have different agendas, they tried to be separated, they tried to speak different languages but basically when the people went to cast their vote they knew that they were one and the same team and therefore I don't want to differentiate them on any agenda including the agenda of Communalism in the state. They submitted themselves to several corporates. The NHRC belongs to the people of this country, it does not belong to the government of this country. We have judges, we have chief justices who are succumbed to the government and accepted positions as governors, who have accepted positions as largest of our members, don't call me a traitor then because I waited for three years for the institutions of this country to respond. Hello and welcome to Newsclips. The police firing on May 22, 2018 killed 11 anti-sterlight protesters on the spot. Five other people succumbed to injuries in the following days. The CBA inquiry has not reached anywhere with the FIR naming no one from the District Administration or the police force. The NHRC wound up the Somato case based on a report by its commission which has not been made public. In spite of three years of legal struggle the victims are at two get justice. To discuss more about this, we have with us the secretary to find the executive director of People's Watch, a human rights organization based in Madurai. Welcome sir. So to begin with, can you briefly explain what happened in Tutukudi on May 22, 2018? Thank you for this opportunity of being with you on the 22nd of May 2018. Before you get into the events, I think it is important to understand that something unique in judicial history took place just a little earlier. It was on the 18th of May, upon a petition filed by a private party which is Vedanta here, the Madurai Bench of the Madras High Court in repetition number 3190 of 2018 passed a directive to the District Administration to pass appropriate orders regarding the imposition of section 144 CRPC. So the point is that the District Administration on its own was not willing to do a 144 CRPC because the High Court which had directed the District Administration to impose a 144 CRPC. Now 144 CRPC is usually not done by anybody else than the District magistrate. And here upon a petition from a private party to protect its premises a 144 CRPC order was supposed to have been passed, at least directed to have been passed. Now this order, subsequent to this order on 28th peace talks were held and at the consequence of the peace talks, some people were invited, some people were not invited. Now I do not go to a dinner which is where I am not invited. I do not attend a marriage where I am not invited. I do not attend any function where there is no invitation for me. So there are some people who attended the talks and at the end of the talks in which the District Collector did not participate. So it was not important for the District Collector to participate. It was such an unimportant meeting in that sense. And it was the SP who conducted the entire proceeding and an alternative was given to the plan by the people on the 100th day of their protest which was the 22nd of May to do what? To walk up peacefully to the office of the Collector and ask him what has happened for 100 days we have been protesting. Today is the 100th day anniversary and therefore we are before you. Which every legitimate citizen has a right to do. This was the plan. The alternative was the grounds of a school called SAV Grounds. Now it was after this peace meeting on the 24th steaming that the 144 is alleged to have been passed. Now when 144 is passed, there should be sufficient notice to the people and there should be public proclamation made on the streets. And you and I know that it is not sufficient to pass a piece of paper and sign it or give it to a media or say that it was covered in the media. But it is important to Tom Tom in town to make sure that 144 is promulgated. This is what is meant by promulgation. That promulgation was not done in this particular case. Now it is in this background that 22nd you should understand what happened. People went as per their plan. Their plan was to peacefully walk to the collect rates. So they peacefully marched. But of course it was the entire town that was marching. Now there were some parts of Tutikorin town which were covered under 144. Which means some police stations were brought under 144. And some police stations were not brought under 144. Now the jurisdiction of a police station, Mr. Niharambram, you don't know and I don't know most occasions. We walk, we think we are under one jurisdiction. We might be actually walking in the other jurisdiction. Police station jurisdiction need not necessarily be known to everybody in town. And so people were marching. And as long as the road was free to march, they were marching. Now when they came to the main road, which is quite long, which leads to the collected in some places, of course there were blockades. And there were simple blockades. The moment the people pushed the blockade, they were allowed to go. So they rushed. And when one crowd went, that was 1000 people going. Here and there, when there were clashes with the police, they pushed the police and they went forward. Nowhere was there anything to prevent a massive barricade saying 144 has been imposed, was never publicly announced. And for your information, I was physically present there. I actually came thinking people would assemble at SAV grounds. We went to SAV grounds and we found nobody was assembling in SAV grounds. And therefore we heard what was happening. So we also moved with the crowd. Of course I was a little safer than the others because I knew, I knew what the targeting would ultimately mean. These are the occasions when police target on certain individuals. And I could at that time very well imagine that I could have been one of those targets. I was in a very vantage point, but I had 10 monitors on the spot. Most of them opposite the district collector's office. And as they moved, everybody was allowed to enter the collector's premises. Now where have you heard about this kind of law and order management? The district collector's office is in a compound which has a major, major gate adjoining the road. Now, the least one would expect is several gardens of police are placed there and not a single soul is allowed to enter. Everybody was allowed to enter. So it was when they were entering that the alternative plan took place of people who are not dressed as police, but who are stooges of the police, who were strategically placed behind the collector's, who had already committed acts of violence on the building, which is captured by the CCTV camera about which Mughilan has spoken of and I don't want to repeat that and the attack took place from that side on the public. And then of course, the police were instructed to do what they do, what they had to do, did it. And there were strategic inspectors who ensured that there were strategic personnel who were killed. So some of those who were shot dead were aimed to be shot. Others were in the crossfire. Now, this is exactly what happened on 22nd in brief. Of course, on the streets after that, you know what took place. There are lotty charges, people go helter-skeletal, people rush to hospitals. And suddenly you find in the afternoon a firing taking place in the fishermen area. So there is no conflict that can ever take place there. What made the police fire there? So during the course of the day, we saw 11 people succumbing to injuries of police fire on 22nd alone. And thereafter, we have seen that five others have died. Two various other circumstances, torture, leading to death, people who died subsequently, et cetera, et cetera. Now, on the 22nd, we send a complaint to the National Human Rights Commission. Now, everybody believes that this is an independent commission. That is the problem, including me. And therefore, we send a complaint on 22nd by email. On 23rd, I follow it with a detailed complaint, which is in as much detail as possible. Saying that we are, and on 22nd, I say we are from ground zero. The email is from facts that we have gathered from ground zero. We are nobody sitting outside. We are on, and I can name, there were 10 students who were interning with me from very reputed institutions like Etiraj College, like Loyola College, like Salamari College, who were interning actually with me and from the Central Law University in Tiruvarud. I had students of post-graduation and they said, sir, we want to come. I said, come, but then there is a risk. Come, let's go. So my first protection was to see that the women students were saved. So after the incident was over, I moved them off. So we had ground zero information. With this information on 23rd, the complaint is also sent. The NHRC on its own takes the complaint on 23rd. Now, 23rd, when they take the complaint, just follow what I say. This is the order of the NHRC. The commission has noticed newspaper reports telecast on many TV channels, from which it appears that the police resorted to firing on unarmed protesters. This is not me, this is their order. Without following the standard operating procedure, this is what the NHRC says, which tantamount to serious violation of human rights. Therefore, the commission takes so much cognizance of the matter and direct issuance of notice to the chief secretary and the director general of police, Tamil Nadu, calling for a detailed report on the matter, along with the status of treatment being provided to the persons who have injured in police firing and gives four weeks time to do this. Now, imagine people are killed and you give a notice for four weeks. Of course, there was a conscientious Tamil lawyer in Delhi, Mr. Rajarajan, who approached the Delhi High Court and said, what is this? People are killed and you give four weeks notice to the chief secretary to respond. So, the Delhi High Court says, Mr. Rajarajan, go to the NHRC and tell the NHRC you listen to what Rajarajan says. So, upon the intervention of a Tamil lawyer in the Delhi High Court, only the NHRC revised its order on the 29th of May and directs its team of investigators to go to Tutukudi, which they did on the 1st of June. First point, NHRC did not automatically pass an order to go to Tutukudi. It was the intervention of a lawyer, a Tamil lawyer from Delhi in the Delhi High Court, which resulted in that. Now, very interestingly, on the 31st of May, it is important to note that eight UN special rapporteurs, not one, eight, within eight days of the incident, eight of the UN special rapporteurs on the UN working group on human rights and transnational corporations. The special rapporteur on implications of human rights, of the environmentally sound management and disposal of hazardous substances and waste. The special rapporteur on extrajudicial summary and arbitrary executions. The special rapporteur on protection of the right to freedom of opinion and expression. The special rapporteur on the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association. The special rapporteur on human rights and the environment. And the special rapporteur on safe drinking water and sanitation. Together with the special rapporteur on human rights defenders, eight of them jointly issue a statement condemning what has taken place. But yet, the NHRC team has not yet reached. The statement has already come from the United Nations. The United Nations can be so smart. When the United Nations can have such authentic information, why can't people on the ground in India have access to speedy information in a country which boasts itself of a digital India, being a digital India? Now, thereafter, these people give their comments. This report exceedingly fast, very competent. I saw the officers. I have no grouse against the officers. I know their integrity. And their integrity is a proven integrity. In various cases, they give the report on 28th of June. They were given four weeks. Chief secretary is given four weeks to display. Investigation team is also given four weeks to reply. So they give their reply on 28th of June. Now, my point is, my dear friends, where is that report? Whom does that report belong to? Is that report covered by any RTI? If it is an investigation report, then use it for investigation. If it is an investigation report, I can imagine it is confidential. But then use it for passing of orders and reveal portions of what you base your order on. If I call A to give a report and B to give a report, in the conclusion that I come, I will take parts of A, parts of B and come to my conclusions. And I should say this part is taken from A, this part is taken from B. The A party gave its report on 28th of June, which is the investigation being of the NHS. The B party, which is the Government of Tamil Nadu, in September, on 29th of September, the Home Secretary gives their report. If my dates are still accurate, yeah, they give their report. And in that report, the Home Secretary, the Public Secretary, in fact, says the following things. One, Government of Tamil Nadu has immediately rushed and provided compensation to those who died and those who are injured. True, but it is not compensation, it is extracea payment. A compensation cannot be paid by the Government without orders for paying compensation by a body which investigates. It can be a National Human Rights Commission, it can be a court of law. Here it was an extracea payment. Who gave that money? We do not know. My Chief Minister then, who did not know the cause of the debt, was immediately enough to give X number of crores to every family of the deceased. Fine. Number two, they say that we have appointed Arunachagadishan Commission. And once we have interested our responsibility with Arunachagadishan Commission, our job is over. So, number two, over. Number three, we have now come to know that the CBI is investigating the case. So, our CBCD is not doing it, CBI is doing it. Number four, normalcy has returned. Now, what normalcy? I do not know. The normalcy was such a normalcy that this EPS could not enter Tutukharin for more than one year. That was the normalcy. People of Tutukudi know it, people of Tamil Nadu know it. People in Delhi may not be aware of it. The two people who brought normalcy were nobody from the ruling party. Nobody from the Government. Those who brought normalcy were Mr. Gagan Deep Singh Devi, who is presently the Corporation Commissioner of Chennai. And Mr. Devidhar, these were two officers in training of the government who were deputed to go to Tutukudi. That is why your compensation of a few crores and a few lakhs of the injured were paid. If they were not there, they would have taken bribe also from that. Luckily, these two honest officers were there to ensure that the payments actually reached them. This is the background. Now it is in this background that the National Human Rights Commission, headed by none other than a former Chief Justice of this country, and I insist on this because it is shameful for this act to have taken place on the 25th of October, only takes the version of the government, only relies on the version of the government, does not refer to its investigation teams visit and then comes to a conclusion. And the conclusion is, I do not want to repeat all what I had said earlier has been stated, the Commission considered this report and was of the opinion that adequate compensation has been paid. Where was compensation paid? Exclusive payments were paid. A former Chief of the Supreme Court of this country transforms an excretion payment or is unable to understand the difference between a compensation and an excretion payment. I am shocked. I am shocked and I am ashamed to say this in public. I have been paid to the victims and appropriate steps have been taken by the state government to maintain law and order in the district. And the Judicial Commission was looking into the police excesses. If any, if any, excesses if any and no further intervention in the matter is required. The report is taken on record and the case stands closed. I was shocked. No reference to the investigation team of the NHRC, which submitted its report three months prior to the government of Tamil Nadu. On the 28th of June, no reference, not anywhere reference is made and the case is closed. Now who is the complainant? Henry DeFayne is one of the complainant. The least you expect a former Chief Justice of India to do is, Mr. Henry DeFayne, this is what the government of Tamil Nadu has said, do you have anything to say? Mr. Henry DeFayne, this is what our investigation team says. You moved the court. Here is their report. Now you give your version if any. If you don't give a version, we will take an expati order. That is principles of natural justice. This is what we call principles of natural justice. Get every party, give every party a proper hearing. You hear one side and you add according to what that side has said, which means the NHRC had abandoned the principle of independence, which is the foundation of the formation of the NHRC in Paris principles to be independent. Now we don't leave it. This is a secret document. We come to know about it only in December 2018. The order copy was not immediately sent to me. At least minimum order copy was not even sent to me. Therefore, when we come to know about it, I immediately file a review petition. I give a representation. Then formally using the NHRC regulations, I appeal with a formal review. No response to the review, no response to the representation. I file an RTI asking for these reports. I am told that the reports cannot be given. I go on first appeal and on first appeal, they give me a report of the government. The report of the investigating officers, they say cannot be given because it is covered by section 8 of the RTI Act. Friends, 2019 they come to Tamil Nadu for a public hearing. The chairperson and members, they sit in a public hearing in the library buildings. I made a representation to the commission. Before they started their proceedings, I said making a mention of a case that comes from Tamil Nadu. Mr. Tiffane, what is your problem? I said I have not been heard. It has been closed. I want you to reopen it. Of course we will reopen it, Mr. Tiffane. I want to be heard. If there is a need, we will definitely call for you. These were public utterances made in the presence of the chief secretary of Tamil Nadu, then Mr. Shanmugam and the DGP Tamil Nadu, then Mr. JK Tirupathi. I am purposely mentioning because both of them were sitting there. The newspapers of that day covered it. Nothing happened. And therefore I made another representation to them. And since there was no response in the month of April 2021, when my RTI chance was closed, when all other doors were closed, I was forced to come to the Madrasai Court in April 2021, which case was heard in June 2021. Now why am I agitated? Why am I agitated? I am agitated because in this country, which is a democracy, which has had a constitution, till today the secret behind the killings of 16 persons in Tutokorin on 22nd of May is not known to the public. Aruna Jagadishan, Commissioner of the Inquiry, was appointed three years ago. 1,200 or 300 days. And she has actually sat only for 111 days. This week she is sitting. 111 days of sitting in three years. And you pay that commission staff, you pay that commission to district judges. The former registrar of the Madrasai Court is now appointed there as another district judge to assist. You are examining 720 witnesses, but till date you have not examined the collector. Till date you have not examined this SP. Till date you have not examined the deputy Tasildar who claimed that they gave the orders for firing. What inquiry is this? Three years ago you were appointed. After three years the SP has not examined, collector has not examined. The three deputy Tasildars are not examined and the policemen are not examined. You tried to take coverage under COVID. During COVID high court was functioning, madam. That is why I called and then they came to court and said, in court they made an allegation saying, no, no, Justice Aruna Jagadishan has given an interim report. Justice Aruna Jagadishan never gave an interim report. During the three years of our appointment, she was asked by the new government to give a report, asking to be given a report and giving a report at two different things. She was asked to give a report and on the 15th of May, May 2021, she gave her interim report. That interim report only talks about a compensation to a few people which is correct. But she does not talk anything about the use of force. How can she, she has not examined the district magistrate who delegated this power not to a Tasildar, not to an RDO, not to a DRO, but to a deputy Tasildar. See how well the delegation, how high the delegation of powers is. And they gave powers on the basis of which the firing is a ballast of taking place. I'm sorry, they are before the High Court and now it is up to the honorable High Court to break their silence. They have directed the NHRC to give their report in a sealed cover if it wants or they said they give it to you. If they don't give it to you, then we will tell them what they have to do. I hope the institutions of justice will still be effective. I really hope and that is why I've gone to the High Court and I've gone to the High Court, dear friends, not because of the satellite case alone, but there is a conspiracy of dispossess that the NHRC has come up with that in every case of a human rights defender that you take up, the cases are taken but the cases are closed. They are publicly published and taken and they are quietly and silently closed. And the same is the case with the now martyred Stan Swamy whose case also I took in 2018, in 2019, in 2020. And 21, believe me, two months ago, I have given an appeal asking the same NHRC to depute a member-led commission to the Taloja jail in Maharashtra in Mumbai to visit and see the condition of the Bimo Corrigan human rights defenders who are alleged to be suffering from several diseases. No visit, they don't have time for that. So it is very unfortunate that we are talking about my commission. This is not their commission. I have worked with this commission for 27 years. 27 years, Justice Venkatesh Chalaya, the second chairperson is still alive. His predecessor has died. His successor has died, but he is still alive and he will tell you, he will speak. Justice Anand has died. I have not had good innings with anybody but they will tell you that we have always meant, always meant honesty. We have always upheld our credibility and we have always maintained standards and principles in our interventions with the NHRC. The NHRC belongs to the people of this country. It doesn't belong to the government of this country. It belongs to the people of this country and as a citizen of this country, I have every right to continuously put pressure on this institution to look after the human rights, protect and promote the human rights and fundamental freedoms of every citizen of this country. Do you have anything to add on the role played by the then ADMK government and the BJP government in the census? How did they deal with this protest and how they acted on after the police firing happened? Well, I've given my bit on the Aruna Jagadishan commission. I think this is as much as I can say publicly. If she was an independent person, she would have sat for more than five days a week and I leave it at that stage. I think people have a right to come to their own conclusions with all facts placed before them. Interference doesn't come by somebody calling somebody on the phone saying, do something. That said, CBI was given this investigation, not by the government, but by an order of the Madras High Court. The Madurai Venchudu Madras High Court, then headed by former judge Justice Selvam, passed an order on the 14th of August, 2018, directing that the CBI takes over the investigation from the CBCID. Whether that was a right decision or a wrong decision is a different question altogether. Personally, I would have preferred that it would have been given to a special investigation team and the special investigation team comprised of officers from outside Tamil Nadu and that special investigation team was asked to report to the High Court every month with the progress made. You give it to the CBI, nothing happens. In three years, we have two FIRs. In one FIR, a charge sheet against 72 citizens has been filed. The second FIR, which is supposed to be against the police, zero policemen have been named. Charge sheet has not filed. What do you expect us to do? If the CBI behaves this way, if the commission of inquiry behaves the way in which it has behaved and the National Human Rights Commission behaves the way in which it has behaved, then it is about and therefore I say it is about it's now no longer in the lap of EPS and OPS, but it's in the lap of MKS. MKS is duty today, honorable MKS talents duty today to take a decision, to no longer play with this case, but to ensure that this case is either handled properly by Justice Arunar Jagadishan, not by appointing one more district judge, but by making sure that on every working day, witnesses are examined and that within a so-and-so period of time, the report is given. Otherwise, this government will also have to face the criticism that the earlier government faced. I'm sorry to say this. I'm a person who believes that this government is functioning in the right way, but then you cannot play hot and cold with policemen who are killed and post them in different places. All those who are responsible for the killings and were holding forth in duty court in our holding positions today. It is the families which are treated as accused. That is very sad. This is what happens to people who sacrifice their lives. Do you still have belief in the justice system? Because after all these delays and all those stuff, you are again approaching the court, taking justice for the people who have lost their lives in the police fire. What is the alternative in this country? You give me an alternative. The other alternative is what you and I do not subscribe to most probably. But with some people in this country believe, I do not call them traitors. I do not want to call them non-patriotic people. They are the people who believe that the justice system has totally failed and therefore they take to arms. But that is not a solution. And therefore it is up to our judiciary to realize that every individual who is appearing before the judiciary is a person who is upholding the constitution of this country. It is not only the person who is sitting as a judge who is upholding the constitution of this country. It is the persons who are appearing before this court as petitioners who may be the poorest of the poor, who are also upholding justice, who are also upholding the rule of law. And it is because they uphold the rule of law that they come to a court of law. And if the judges are not sensitive to those who are coming with their petition, then it speaks fully of them. And that history has to change. We have judges, we have chief justices who have succumbed to the government and accepted positions as governors, who have accepted positions as largest of our members. Who have been judges in their own cases. But that doesn't mean that every judge is akin to them. They are different. Other judges are different. And therefore it is only by using the system, it is only by criticizing the system with the intention of not abusing the system, but not accusing the system, but correcting the system that the rule of law, democracy and justice will prevail. And that is why I'm before the court. And if the court fails me, I will be forced to go to the Supreme Court. And we will use fora inside and outside the country. You have the United Nations. The eight special rapporteurs who took up that case will now be once again taking up the case. Don't call me a traitor then, because I waited for three years for the institutions of this country to respond. Sir, have you ever felt there is a conspiracy behind the police firing? Because as you earlier said, the marches were very peaceful and the police firing almost came out of the blue. Sir, such a brutal action on the police cannot take place upon orders of a deputy tassel. Let me make it that clear. How high people involved in the conspiracy were may not be clear. But the fact that on one day, 11 people were shot dead. The other succumbed to injuries the next day. So I'm going to say one day. Or 13 if you want to say it that way, because night owner did. 13 people could die in a police action in one day, cannot be something in which a conspiracy of the executive at the topmost levels together with their corporate bosses and not take a place. Forcing the chief ministers to say, I do not know what has happened. As you mentioned, the corporate organizations have got more power. Almost now we can say that they are more powerful or they are able to ensure that the government is taking policies which will favor them. So in a town like Tutukudi, which is very densely populated, which has lost all its sheen to the pollution which this plant has created over a period of time. Do you think that they had a role to play in this, you know, in human action? I'm categorically saying that they definitely had. The very fact that they went to court on the 18th of May asking for a 144 was an indication of the part of this conspiracy. So you continue to hold that the ADMK government which was in rule during the police firing had succumbed to the or has surrendered to the corporate forces or to their demand. I don't only say that the ADMK government surrendered to one corporate, which is Vedanta. They submitted themselves to several corporates and the brokers of corporates. And those who are the brokers in the ADMK government are those who have succeeded in winning the elections today. If you analyze the elections, you will see that those whose hands were all dirty through correct money are those who managed to win the elections. And I hope this present government will have the moral courage. They may have the political courage, have the moral courage to fight each of those cases because that is a moral duty cast by the ordinary citizen in the ballot box on the day when we went for elections. The DMK government doesn't need to think that they won because the DMK party was strong. The DMK government should be able to understand that the non-DMK people are those responsible for its success and for its role in governance today. And for that sake, they have to ensure that all those who are corrupt are put behind bars. And when I say behind bars, I don't mean jail alone. I mean proper, speedy, clear, honest prosecutions of not only ministers, but those officers of the IAS and below, and their secretaries who are responsible, equally responsible for what went wrong. Apart from the ADMK, one party would justify the police firing was the BJP. They were saying that it happened all because to save the lives of so many people, few people were killed. That was the words which were uttered by the leaders of the BJP then. Do you, what is your opinion on that particular party? When I speak about the ADMK, I speak about the BJP-ADMK combined. It is just in political terms, they call it A-party, B-party. In our parlance, both of them were the same party. They tried to act differently. They tried to have different agendas. They tried to be separated. They tried to speak different languages. But basically, when the people went to cast their vote, they knew that they were one and the same team. And therefore, I don't want to differentiate them on any agenda, including the agenda of Communalism in the state. Okay, thank you so much for your time, sir. Thank you. Thank you, sir.