 Yn ystod, rhai yw yn gyntaf o yma, mae ymlaen oedd yn yng Nghaerfod o'i Llanddur gyda'r gynllun iawn i gael yma. Mae'r gynllun iawn i'n gweithio'r proffes hanes ar y cyllidiau 2020, sy'n mynd i ddiflusio'r gynllun iawn i'r gynhyrchu i gael yng ngharfod cyffredinol gyda'r gynhyrchu. Rwyf yn goethol i gyffredinol iaithio a gwasanaeth ar y flwyddyn fideb yn cyfrinddoedd dyma o bach o'r ddweud o'r eich gweithiool yma o'r tofod i gael llaun eu llef ystyried eich dda'r gyffredinol yn y tofod i gael i fyddi. Yn ywch ddweud roiewch cyffredinol y dda o'r 30% o'r trefinter yn y tofod o ffordd i gyfrindydd o gweithwyr yn y gweithwyr, ac yn ddweud i'ch gweithwyr i gadwod o'r dda, ac yna'n a rhai bergolon, nid o gyf huge 모 o safid award newydd yn y mewn ei syniadau wedi tavir. Ond, y ddweud y riscu, yma'n amlwg i termsfaly settledyn, Signal à PHATLŷn Waty James. ensas protys. Be it shotleaved has seemed to have resonated with what we're seeing today, was the number of young people who are going out to get their PVCs, especially for those who seemingly are campaigning for the Labour Party presidential campaign, presidential candidate, I beg y pwn, Mr Peter Albi. But really, is there a connection of sorts? Do you agree with that? I can't see any connection between the ensas campaign and 2023 general elections since 2020. Remember we've had the election in a number, we just had the election in Niquiti State. We had an election in Lligos East, I think for Lligos East senatorial district. I hope I'm correct. And in all of these three elections, less than 30% of the registered voters have actually turned out on election day. So I'm not seeing any correlation between what happened during the ensas campaign and what we are seeing at the moment. Close to a million registered voters in Niquiti State and roughly 310,000 or 320,000 people voted during the last governorship election in Niquiti State. So we are wondering, it's not just about PVC collection really, it's about people wanting to come out to vote. Are you seeing that desire? Are you seeing that urge in them to come out? We've had shouts about people going to collect their PVC and all of that stuff, but they've not really translated into a vast majority or greater majority of people running out on election day. I'm here to see that correlation, at least not with the last three elections we've had in Nigeria or through state governorship election is next next month in July. Let's see whether there will probably be a better turnout of voters that we have seen in Anambra and what we have seen in Niquiti State. I hear many pundits, many analysts, many politicians in fact. Many young people say, oh well, this was not as what we expected, but let's see if the next one, we've been saying that for the last three election cycles. And so it makes me want to push you again to say, what is it about us that makes us so energetic before the elections, but then when the elections come, we're dead cold? I think one linkage I can say is that look, I think more than often political parties don't throw up people or candidates who connect with the people, who can connect with the youth. I think a lot of young Nigerians are still disenchanted with the way and manner political parties recruit their leadership. No, check the last primaries of the two major political parties and you could find out that look, they're wearing major surprises in many states across the federation. So I think the main thing linkage is because political parties don't throw up candidates that the youth can connect with, candidates that the vast, greater majority of Nigerians can connect with. So if the political parties, whose primary responsibility it is to recruit leaders, to recruit candidates, to recruit the best of the best for Nigerians to see, then we can continue to see that missing link between a greater number of people turning us to votes for elections and the kind of candidate political parties that throw up. What we have more than often are accidents of placement, people whose struggle to get into certain position, not necessarily because they are the best, but because Godfathers have thrown them up and more than often people don't connect with these candidates. OK. Barstah, where is that spirit of the ensars, the spirit behind the campaign, the spirit behind that protest, and I'm not talking about the violent ones who hijacked that protest, the hoodlums, the touts or the paid people. I'm talking about the young people who were sick and tired of the police wrongly convicting them, police officers taking advantage of them, those who were tired of bad governance, and those who said enough is enough. Where is that spirit? And just as I asked the fine gentleman, why do we think that this spirit might be behind the mass number of people who were coming out to get their PVCs? Again, what's the guarantee that when these PVCs are collected, they will not just become ID cards when Election Day comes? Thank you, Maria. I think your question flows from the assumption that those who are trying to collect their PVCs now are all in favour of Beta OV, or largely driven by that sentiment to go out and do for Beta OV. Well, just let me remind you also that among the large number of youths who are trying to get their PVCs, you have youths who also belong to the APC, who are preface for the APC, pay for the PDP and other political parties. So it is a full assumption to just think that oh, this drive is largely because of the diplomatic candidates. Now having said that, you also need to understand that yes, the youth can have all the drive and all the desire to go out and vote, but if you do not vote on Election Day, then you can as well kiss whatever ambitions, whatever desires you have, goodbye. It's very important that you get the youth to go out there on that day and vote. Now what you've seen over the years, and I've already mentioned earlier, is that these political parties that are established with PDP, the APC, they have structures on grounds, they have party members at one level who are ready to risk the action that the election process always throws up in Nigeria, stay on the queue for hours, sit down and stand by their votes, and ensure that the votes are counted. Now I'm not sure that when it comes to Election Day that you have as much youths really turn out and vote on Election Day. As is for many reasons, now there's a fear of poverty, there's a fear of violence that could happen on Election Day. So for that reason, many people would just sit back and try to avoid any conflict that would likely happen. And don't also forget that these particular work level politicians, they are grassy politicians, they know everybody in the area, they mobilise well ahead of time. If you recall, the OBC began a massive voter drive, I think it was three years ago, to register people all across the country. So you're hoping wrong to discount the presence that is established by the SCAP parties have, and to assume that the end-stage spirit is what is driving this middle-age movement. Although people have argued on social media that this will be the third force they want to put at the core of the Jagaban, but OBC is their preference. But like I always say, and many people who are very vast politics in Nigeria would say, but they don't believe you on social media. So no matter how much noise or how much discussions you have on social media, it must translate to actual voting on Election Day. It must translate to mobilising everybody, all and so on, to go up and vote for your candidates on that day. So that's why even for the experience, it seems as if all the youth are tired, they want to change. But you also need to ensure that children are put in place to have people at every level, one level, state level, the government level, to push the agenda of whichever candidate that the youth are supporting. But it will be wrong to assume that all the youth of OBC, they are also youth who are actively supporting the individual candidates. And if you see the comments that you have on social media, you will see that these views are largely divided along those lines. So those views are long those candidates. So it will be wrong to just assume that this massive drive is all above what that would be. I bet you disagree on that. Perfect. Let me take you to a kiddie state. It just happened over the weekend, the governorship elections, and I just spoke with somebody from the SDP campaign for Shagwonni. And not just the SDP, but even the ADP candidate complained about the some irregularities during that election. And I'd like to just say what the lady said. I'm just going to not exactly say in her words, but she accused the APC, the PDP and the SDP of vote buying both at the state and local levels. And when the SDP man was arguing that the ruling party was the one engaging in most of the vote buying, I asked the question, which I'm going to post to you now, should we be saying or should we be apprehending INEC for vote buying? Should we be accusing INEC of not doing their jobs if the people themselves who, as he said, have been impoverished, are tired of bad governance. The people who seemingly wanted a new lease of life ask the same people who have been induced and have taken these inducements and voted for the APC. Should they not be the ones that we should be targeting our energies at instead of the INEC, whose job is to conduct elections? Well, I think asking INEC to try to, INEC already has the law in place as relates to vote buying, so it's legal, right? But you cannot ask INEC with that duty of apprehending people who are engaging in vote buying on election day when they have to deal with the logistics of conducting the election. I would expect the election officer who was on duty to leave his as primary assignment and then go ahead and apprehend people who are engaging in vote buying. That's the job of the security agencies and you did see some videos of INCC officials arresting people who they felt were engaging in vote buying. So there's some problems there as well because also I'm not going to say, I did see some videos of people on the queue insisting that they will not sell their votes. They said in local parlance that I had the vote, I had the vote last year more, meaning that we are not going to collect our money to cook a pot of soup any longer. We are going to exercise our franchise and votes our conscience. But you cannot legislate for all individuals in that regard because it's a matter of conscience. If a person feels that he wants to collect money and still vote because if you, there are two ways to do it. There could be collection of money and not voting for the person who paid you the money. There could be go and vote for my person. Let me see what you, show me the ballot box on my distance and the ballot department distance and then I'll pay you eventually. And there could be those who collect the money and still go ahead and vote for their candidates. So, we can't really say exactly how much of an impact the vote by played out on the results because we don't know how everybody voted. Okay, so, but of course, those who were engaged in it were apprehended, at least largely on the views that we saw. And really, actually, there's only a limit to how much the laws you can make. The people themselves also must feel the pinch. They must naturally be fed up of the entire system to say we would not collect any money in return or in exchange for our votes. And so, we've got to enable everybody that is that enlightened. And the public that also have an education and enlightenment is that there are those who are also enlightened who also took money to accept their franchise. So, education really, you can argue that those who did that were illiterates. But we cannot say for a fact that all of them are illiterates. There are people who are also enlightened amongst them who still took the money because it was being offered and they took it and still would have voted one way or the other. So, when it comes to vote by it, it's something that we need to find a way around. We need to sit down together and look for how well to make the laws effective to prevent vote by it. Because even the policemen you put at the polling booth, you have gone on to policemen against maybe a barrage of talks who are there lying low. So, what is the security arrangement for the policemen at the polling booth? If we arrest and have created one person, what happens to him when he's going low? Is there any security apparatus in place to protect him if he goes down to the right thing? Or are you going to leave him to his fate when the ships are down? So, those are the issues that play out, you know, mathematically on election day, that it will be unfair to say or abuse the policemen who are not doing his job when he does what he likes on the line. Okay, back to you Olaleco. He's just made an interesting point about the voter education aspect of our electoral process, but I'd like to quote the ADP governorship candidates, the woman, who said, despite the voter education and sensitisation campaigns that had been done before the elections, these parties and, of course, the equity people still engaged in the issue of vote buying. So, does it mean that this sensitisation does not really work? Is it pouring water on the back of a chicken? Is it that we Nigerians in ourselves are not yet as tired as we think that we are? And so, or maybe we have also acclamatised, or could it be, that we have grown into becoming used to the inducements because you see is, let me use the local parlance, have bread is better than none. What exactly is the issue here? Because, again, this might, one way or the other, determine on the larger scale what will happen in 2023. If you have an idea, help us understand. But I think it's a mixture of a lot of things. You can talk of the general Malin in the system talking in terms of corruption. I'm sure you know that we have a serious question mark when it comes to corruption, where the issues about Nigeria be among the most corrupt nations in the world. So you could say, look, corruption is part and parcel of our lives as of today. They're not so added to the fact that look. One of the things that encourages impunity in any system is lack of quick dispensation of justice. So you could also blame our judicial system for part of the reasons why we still continue to have vote buying. Because if you appoint people and you are unable to prosecute them one year, two years, three years, four years, five years, six years, 10 years later, then you continue to encourage impunity because people now know that even if I'm arrested and taken to court, I may never get justice in 20 years. I may never get justice in 10 years. So you see part of what encourages impunity now. Part of your political parties may be encouraged to continue to do this because they know that if people are arrested on election day for vote buying, the case may not even get to court. If the case does arrive to court, when will justice be served? And remember like lawyers will always say, when justice is served, it's not just to the accused. What of the society, what of the court itself, what of the administration of justice in the country? So you begin to understand why we continue to have impunity in the system and why a lot of things continue to happen. So it's a mixture of a lot of things as to why we continue to have vote buying. And like my friend on the other side has said, look, it's not just about ignorance. We have people who are well educated. We have people who are everywhere enlightened, who are also willing to also start their vote. Some for 5000, some for little as 1000, some for 10,000. Of course, remember we also had the issue of a delegate election across political parties only recently. And you are aware of allegations of delegates being offered money in foreign currencies to vote for a particular candidate. So it's not just about doing an election, you are talking about vote buying. You are also talking about vote buying even during delegate convention of political parties. What if some of those selling their vote during the general election are also saying this is an opportunity for me to collect my own share after I was not a delegate to the convention of a particular political party. This is an opportunity for me to also get my own share. So you can see the way we are exporting some of this thing because even during a party's convention, you hear of allegations of people being offered money to vote for a particular candidate. You are aware that EFCC was also present at the national convention of the AFCC and at the national convention of the PTP. What was EFCC doing there? Even though there were allegations of people being put over in foreign currencies. So you begin to understand that, look, vote buying isn't just going to be down to voter education. We must also be able to successfully and quickly to prosecute those who have been arrested during elections for buying votes. I'll just give you a minute to respond to this. How optimistic are you, Deji, in terms of the youth and of course the average Nigerian who you and I think has been overly impoverished, always tired of what's happening in today's Nigeria and wants a better opportunity? How optimistic are you that we will come out in full force and cast our votes for the right person depending on who that right person is and who we think that right person is? Are you sure that we are going to see a renewed vigor come 2023 or is it just going to be business as usual in a minute? Well, I think that the concerns of the elections next year, I believe that the concerns of the APC and the PDP, I don't have a labour party, have a very large following. I believe that all countries will try to energise their base to come out and vote en masse. You did see the arrival of the Jagaban, Mashuwajewel army to Lagos and the number of people who were present were coming back. I believe that the former VP article will also come out with a kind of following as well and I believe that that would also command that kind of following. So the usual eventually would bow down to who is able to get as much people to the polling votes on election day, who is able to galvanise the base to come out and vote. So wherever is the election, where will be the person who has been able to successfully get those people to vote all over the country? And I don't think that the way it's going, that just the concerns of social media will be sufficient. You need to go to the grassroots level and this is where the PDP and the APC have their advantage because they have structures that have lasted in a very long time. Well, I want to say thank you Deji, our BDA is a legal practitioner and Ola Le Conyge is a public affairs analyst. Thank you so much gentlemen for being part of the conversation. Thank you for having us. All right. And thank you for staying with us. That's the show tonight. I'm Mary Anna Cohn. We will be back tomorrow talking about the biggest stories in our political scene. And of course, don't forget if you missed the show, you can watch live or you can watch a recorded version on our YouTube handles, which is Plus to be Africa and Plus to be Africa Lifestyle. I'm Mary Anna Cohn. Have a good evening.