 for organizational meeting, election of officers. In that order, right? We're gonna organize first and then elect. We usually do election of officers first and then go through some of the other items we have to set up and agree to the meeting, when we're gonna meet, times, locations, where we post notices, those kinds of things. So, yeah, so not, say what, John? Well, I was gonna suggest that since we normally have our meetings at seven, why don't we dedicate this piece, the six to seven, to go walking through kind of the organizational thing that we're here to discuss. And then when we appoint, let's do that at seven at our normal meeting time, we've kind of discussed all this, and that way the officers know, I don't know if we're gonna get stuff nailed down, but they'll get a feel for where we wanna be as a board going forward. I think that'd be better for those. I mean, I'm gonna move to nominate Denise's chair. I want Denise to know what she's getting into. I'm gonna move, I would like to move to have Sharon as vice chair, I wanna make sure she knows what she's getting into, so we all know what's going on rather than appointing and then have people not know the lay of the land that they're kind of the leaders, the leadership, I guess, the appointed officers are gonna be presiding over. Okay, so you're suggesting that we change the order of the agenda? Does everybody agree to that? Yeah. Rick, do you agree? Yes. Okay, I thought you were frozen. Cliff? Yes. Okay. All right, so do you want to take and review the proposed revised rules of procedure? Is that what you're suggesting, Don? I wanna suggest as I did in an email that rather than spending our time as in an editing session, at least not starting out as an editing session, that we allow ourselves time and just space to have a bigger conversation about the things that I put in a memo to the board that I assume is available to the public. What does it mean to be equals on the board? How do we put in place a framework that supports us all as equals and kind of anchors us? I think that might have been the word that John used when we hit on this briefly at our last meeting. To me, that conversation is, and framing in conversation is the backdrop to then looking at the document and seeing how it aligns with what we're talking about and where we might wanna make changes. That would be my suggestion. Don, everybody speak at once. It makes perfect sense to me. I mean, I, you know, to do that. And did John step away? Looks like it. Looks like it. I'm okay with that. There he is. Yeah, I would definitely support that I don't think we should get into an editing session here tonight, but if we can see if there's a consensus to how we wanna look towards organizing things, then we can talk about how we want to address editing the document as it were. Yeah, right. Sounds good to me. Yeah. Yeah, so I guess I can start because I'm the one to kind of, you know, put this thing out there. I am really hoping for a board construct that identifies each of us as leaders and owners is a, you know, word that comes to mind around different aspects of the business that the board takes on. We could make that list of what that looks like. Some of the stuff is obvious to all of us. Some of it may be, you know, kind of hiding sometimes off in the shrubs and it comes up every once in a while. But rather than, you know, right now, it's like everything starts with Denise. Denise gets the call and Denise is responsible for filtering and is it ready? Should it be on the board? Is it time? How do we make time? Delegating and not just one at a time delegating, not just one off delegating, but sort of structurally delegating that like we already have done in some ways informally, we've said, Cliff, you're our tech guy. And you may not even want that job as it turns out, you're the expert on tech. And so we naturally delegate our tech work to Cliff and that's kind of known and understood. And we could endorse that. Cliff is the tech guy. Calls about tech issues is Cliff and he fields that and he assesses, John, you've been highway at different times. Rick, I know you have background in highway road maintenance. That could be an area of expertise for you. I have things that are naturals for me, Denise does. That's one thing that's part of my vision for how we work together. And then, and by doing that, I hope that we can get ourselves to a place where we can keep our board meetings crisp and focused. We can create actually more time to turn back to the policies that we have on the website. But in the four years I've been on the board, we haven't systematically looked at policies at all. And they are, that's something we should, that should be a backdrop for our governance is what the policies looking at them, keeping them current and then all of us being very familiar with them and being able to apply them. So that would, so I'm looking for a way that we can delegate work more broadly. Each of us have a broader chunk of ownership and that that framework allows us to focus on the structure and the framework of our governance system in our town and that it drives a different approach to how we work together in our meetings. Do you put any level of like redundancy on that? I was like looking at the VLCT intertemp. And they talked about this with say committee representation where you had one or two people designated. I'm not sure for us for continuity like let's, and I'm just going to use transportation as an example to you. And then we'll second who don't really do the work but are kept more up to date on exactly what's happening. So if there are any continuity issues, losing all of the expertise on one subject area, if they have to leave for some reason or do leave, then you've actually got to make any sense. It does in the sense that when we get around to or have a need to vote on something, everybody on the board should feel comfortable with having enough knowledge and information about a particular issue to vote in the town's best interest. So somebody that maybe is the transportation liaison person is would give periodic updates to the board. That doesn't mean we still wouldn't have the road commissioner maybe give us updates on what's going on. I see it as, you know, like with you, for example, Rick, with you with your transportation background, you were really helpful on, we had the roads committee that we appointed and your work on the roads committee was really valuable and helpful. So I can see things like that working. Some things I think are really full board issues that should be vetted and discussed and at a meeting. That doesn't mean somebody can't be a point person. Right, right. Yeah, and I mean, highway is one where if we were going to adopt this model, I would say it's two people right from the get go because it's half the town's budget, right? I mean, it's huge and other things and it's really complicated. It's complicated and it's any number of reasons. Other things, one person is probably fine unless every once in a while, this, you know, it's fine and then at some issue comes along and it isn't. And then that one person can say, this is bigger than a bread box, guys, I need a partner on this one to, you know, work with me outside the meeting, get this thing right for board discussion. It's complex. I want a second set of eyes and different brain. Yeah, highway is one, it would be to me is two people right away. And we've been in any of those controversial areas like that. That's I think really important because you don't want just one perspective. You're setting yourself up for trouble. You know, we know how controversial say that area is. So if you've at least got two people that have some level of focus, the whole board needs to know. And that's the specialist job to make sure that everyone on the board is informed about to be able to make decisions. They don't make it in the blind, but having that check of any individual is a good idea, especially in places like that, you know how much, I mean, that's a little easier when you go to the public too, when you make a decision that some people might or might not like, you know, when you're not, you haven't made that in a vacuum as one person. So, you know, it's been more better vetted. Well, and even if it's two people working on it, to me, the board still makes the decision and the board still gets from that duo pros and cons options. Here's three options. The stuff that we've talked about in another context. Here's the options. Here's the pros, cons, costs, risks, and here's a recommendation. So the group has, it's sort of both and you're taking ownership, you're sifting and digesting the material, bringing it down to a place where there can be that discussion, but it's not all five of us kind of, you know, floundering through all the information, trying to figure out where are the nuggets. I, yeah, I can see, I see what you're saying. Yeah. I also want to make sure that board members that, and I'm not saying this as a negative towards anybody, but I don't want to have information that's filtered. One to skew it one way or the other. Well, Denise, one person's filter is another, is, yeah. Do you say what I'm saying? Right, no. I mean, the facts, the facts should be there, but I personally want somebody to make a recommendation because that's like to me, like, okay, you hold that up. Do I like this recommendation? Does it make sense to me? I have three questions. Oh, I see how you've got there because that tells me that somebody, and sometimes that may not be possible. Sometimes you say, okay, there's two options. I can't get all the way there on one or the other. I need a partner, we need the whole board discussion, but a lot of times you can. A lot of times you can get down to, and some, yeah, I would agree on some things with it. I think in almost all these cases, the board makes the decision. I mean, that person is only what they are doing, they're out there doing the homework, and they're presenting that up, and they present the pertinent facts. Denise's concern, I get Denise's concern, and we'll have to be careful about that ourselves, and we'll all have to just, everybody has their biases on any subject, so it's a matter of what we, maybe there's a way we approach that. For doubling it, if you have somebody, that makes it a little easier, because you've got a second set of eyes, but if we're not doubling it, we can still do that. I think it strikes me that we wanna just build something in our process so that we're really keeping that objectivity in what we do. I know the VLCT Handbook has a section, and it says that, I looked it up today, it says that occasionally, the board may designate a committee or a member to take on a various sorted task or duty. So that's, so they recognize that as well. Yeah, I'll stop. Christopher John, do you wanna have a chance to talk? I'm good right now, let's keep letting it roll. Okay, Cliff? Yeah, I agree that there are issues of import that it makes sense to have a couple of people overlooking them. I don't know that we need to go to the level of having somebody on the board appointed to oversee each of the committees that exist. I think when we appoint people to the committees, we trust them to be the experts and come to us when they need to, or we could even go back like we used to do pre-COVID and periodically ask them to come to meet with us and give us an update on their goings-ons and whatnot. And of course, any of us as members of the board or as members of the community have the ability to attend any of those meetings, should there be something there that is of interest to us? Yep, I mean, I periodically have popped into cemetery commission meetings or conservation commission meetings and everybody's always happy to see somebody from the board there. And I think we do need to, and we kinda got lost track because of all the COVID stuff that we were dealing with. We used to have committee chairs or a representative of the committee come in and talk to the board about what they have going on, what's coming up, what resources do they need? I personally like to hear from those folks. No, that makes sense to me. And then if there were an issue that one of those groups is grappling with, then we could delegate somebody as our point person to do whatever, make whatever, like with the town hall renovation committee, where we recognize this is a bigger thing. We can't spend all of our, we can't spend even a lot of board time on it. So we flipped it and sent delegates off to be the point people from the board. And then occasionally we would hear from the folks on that committee. Yep. So it's not something new. We have done this. And I don't know that we used to have a list of all of the different things. Well, so that would be another opportunity though, is to structure is to actually have a, you know, have somebody, maybe it's the chair, but maybe it's not the chair who is, you know, scheduling and keeping, yeah, scheduling and making sure that we have space in our calendar. That, you know, we're not just scheduling meeting by meeting, but we're actually, that could be something that one of us takes on. Here's the calendar. Here's when we're gonna look at policies. Here's when we're gonna meet with various folks in different committees so that we are creating again, that bigger arc of how are we organize? What kind of space do we need to have on our calendars to just deal with the framework for our governance? Yep. So I wanna make sure that we get a chance to talk about some of the other pieces if we really are gonna vote on leadership tonight. So I think we should figure out like, okay, to me, I have a thought on what a next step is on this piece. And yeah, I'll, well, I'll just put it out there again in the spirit of letting people react. Maybe that's easier than trying to think about it. One, I wanna hear that whoever, from whomever we elect chair and Denise, if that's you, I wanna hear a commitment from you that we're gonna, that we're going to put in place a framework that allows each of us to have one or several areas that we are owning and that those are, that when we line that list up, everybody's number of things is equal. And that's one thing that's really important to me. We can create that list another time, but I do wanna be sure that we are, that this feels like a shift because that's really what I am looking for is something that feels like a shift. And I'm willing to work towards that shift because I don't want to have to do everything. There are certain things that I would like to continue to do, but I think it's good to have other board members commit to doing certain things and then commit to following through. Well, and then another thing that's on my list is a commitment from whoever our board chairs that we are going to hire a select board assistant because the select board assistant to me is the person who can support all of us in staying on track, looking at the calendar. What is the calendar? If we're gonna put this on the agenda, we've gotta take something else off. Sharon, you promised to have this by Fridays for the, to go into the meeting folder. So everybody has a weekend to read it. Is it ready? You know, all of that to me is the function of a select board assistant to just keep, help us keep the trains running so that Denise, your job is to contribute like the rest of us on whatever your subject is and to run the meeting on Monday nights. Well, I would like to be able to do my share of the work. Absolutely. Because believe it or not, I do have other irons in the fire. I know, I know you have a lot of them. Well, it makes a whole lot of sense to have that. I think that analogy I used is like do we, do we pay our town crews to haul sand or a stone from some distant quarry so we're paying them as truck drivers? Or do we hire that out and so that they can actually focus on the jobs that they're supposed to be doing? You know, that's that kind of thinking. Denise's or the chair's all of our time is better spent, you know, on the task work itself. And that's great. If there's some ring person out there that can act as a, as the signalman that's gathering all that, keeping the, you know, like you said, even those little deadlines, that's really helpful to all of us. You know, so that kind of takes that off our plate that busy work that just chews up our time. I'd like us to, I tried to find it today and I know I put together a list a while ago when we had a select board assistant before of what they might do. I see what we really need in my mind is someone to manage grants. And depending on Cliff's future schedule, we might really need somebody who is handling the IT stuff. I see those as two really big issues. That we really could use some help on. Right now, you know, there's all kinds of grants floating around out there. There's no chart, you know, I envision a spreadsheet with the name of the grant, what it's for, you know, which is it for conservation commission? Is it for the roads, you know, what was it for? How much is the amount? You know, some of those kinds of things like that that are really important for us to know for tracking purposes, money, you know, where is the money going? What's the match? You know, those kinds of things with grants, I think we have fallen short on being able to track them the way I'd like to see us track. That could also be something that one of us does. That's a perfectly, you know, ownership kind of thing for a select board member to do. My agenda for the select board assistant is to look at what are you doing, Denise, in a role that to me has become very unclear. What do you do as chair and what do you do as assistant? What I understand is that the chair's role is to facilitate the meeting, facilitate the meeting. And so all of the work that you do outside of that to keep the trains running to me we should make a very clear decision about what of that is, are we comfortable keeping with the chair and what of that needs to shift to the assistant? Because when you take all of that and you put it in one person, it's way bigger than the chair role. And I get, I for one at least get very confused about what is actually chair and what is assistant and why I'm uncomfortable with that is the assistant should report to the whole board and the chair doesn't report to the board. I see what I do right now is making the agenda. And I think that that's usually the case chair is to do that. To have that kind of big picture view of what's going on in town. And that's just what I do right now. I mean, the chair, I see that chair too, not just as a moderator. They're also, I mean, the way I've always seen this in most board, they're usually, they're at the point spokesperson too. So that, and when we're out talking to the public or other thing, that way we're not giving all these disparate signals you've got. It's funneled through that person, that moderator if you want to call it that, you know, that's, you know, so they're a little bit more than just a moderator. Am I right in that or? You might be right in that, but I feel like we've gone, because Denise took on select board assistant for a while, her plate is very full. Full. And the role is really unclear. I think we also need to find out from when we get ready to make a list of what the select board assistant does, I still think that person being the funnel for grants and keeping track of them would help everybody, including the board and the road crew and any other committee or commission in town that has a grant. It's really important to keep track of that because if we don't have a good tracking system for that, one of these times we're going to get in a pickle and we're going to not be able to document or realize what our share of a grants is going to cost the town because we didn't file paperwork when we should. I mean, right now we've been lucky that we haven't missed any of those deadlines. And I think we need to check in at some point with the office staff because there are certainly duties that the town clerk has to do by statute, but we've had a really amazing office staff in that they've been willing to jump in and help out with other things that maybe aren't there statutory functions. So I think it's a bigger picture and a bigger conversation than what we can conclude tonight. There's a lot of sense and really, I know in the Regional Planning Commissions there was my work there. Our office manager was the grants manager and she kept the milestones. We all had grants and we actually helped establish that. But she monitored those because those are really important. If you miss those milestone dates and things, you can lose your grants and or cause big problems. So I don't know how we track it now whether that's Judy or it's that. I just don't know how our town government, tracks all of the, not just the accounting side of it, but that agreement side, when you're going to provide what. So. Right. So just to give you a little background on that, there are some tools in the network that allow us to track grants to a certain extent, not to the level that you're talking about though. So really the way it's working now is the different people who have taken on the task of applying for a given grant. It's up to them to make sure that we're hitting the deadlines and following through when we need to and submitting the correct time. There is no other than the data that's available in Nimrack. There's really no central resource for us for all of that. We tried to create it at one point in time, but that was back when we did have a select board assistant. So guys, love this, but can we put a pin in the grants and recognize that this is an opportunity? Right. It is not the only opportunity. There are other opportunities there are things that are not getting done and there are things that Denise has been doing that need to come on to the select board assistant. And I'm just gonna stop there, but Denise again, before we vote, I wanna hear you say that you're on board with doing some things differently. I think Sharon, I think I've already said that several times. Yes, you have. And then I hear you deflecting into perhaps a different agenda. So forgive me for being maybe a little nervous about it. I want, can we talk about running our meetings more succinctly and using a model where we've delegated work to happen outside as a way of crisping up what happens in the meeting? Can you explain what you mean? I can explain, but maybe others have experience with other meeting contexts where I don't have to be the only one talking. Rick, you've served on a number of, or been to a lot of select board meetings in your previous employment opportunities. Yeah, I'm sorry. I was shutting up just because I want to give everybody else a chance. Sorry, but yeah, I mean, I kind of agree with Sharon. There's a lot, you can lose a lot of board time if it's all in the preparation. It's expectations about what we expect when we hear that as a board, or if even among ourselves if we're coming in, there should be that expectation of preparation and maybe that should be on the part of that agenda. We don't want to come in with a bunch of discontinuous information that we has to be sorted through. I mean, it's not kind of what you're saying, Sharon. It's really being come in with a direct purpose, so we can outline it and you know, so we can efficiently use our time. I would agree to that, yeah. Yeah, if I can chime in. Circling back a little bit, backtracking a little bit to the select board assistant bit. You know, the select board assistant assists the entirety of the board. I think it's so, you know, Rick mentioned grants if we miss a deadline, that's been discussed. And that's just one on a long list of things that a select board assistant would be engaged on, you know, five days a week, you know, every week of the month. And so their job would be to keep those ticklers going and keeping us all apprised. And we would all, so if they're, so let's just say, highway's a big program, both monetarily and just complicated. And Rick and I were the point guys to deal with the highway. Using this methodology. We would still, we would liaise on, I would argue as much if not more with the administrative assistant, we would be the point, yes, but we might be saying, you know, you need to do this. You need to do that. And it wouldn't be the chair or the vice chair or the clerk of the board or whatever we decide to create position-wise. It would be the individuals that are tasked with being the point program point people. And then administrative assistant, their job, like to manage the staff at the CBRPC, they would be doing a day to day. And so I just think Rick, your point drives home and underscores and everybody in the select board agrees with this, but I'm just ringing it up. We've just as a board not gotten off the dime in terms of getting that position refilled. And we have it in our budget. I think it's really important we get this done. So I can't underscore enough. And I think a lot of the issues or concerns or ungainliness, the stumbling and the inefficiencies will be kind of worked out of the system if and when we hire, not if, but when we hire a select board assistant that's qualified and competent to do the job. And those are all important. You guys may have already done this too, but I don't know if you've, that job description, the kind of person we're looking for. I mean, the first thing we should all be doing is looking at that comprehensive picture of what they're, we're gonna be asking them to do. If it's going to be partly grants management, is it going to be all the board-related business that they have to organize calendar and things like that? Because we're gonna have to look for those skill sets. And then we effectively become the, we become the task manager for that person because they can only handle so much. So we're gonna have to really modulate that. Because it's one person, is it a full-time or part-time position? Yeah, I think it's budgeted for part-time. Yeah, I think we're looking for part-time. And it may, I think the position could grow depending on who is in it and what we find is really helpful and what isn't helpful. I don't want to have a disconnect. I don't wanna have a disconnect between hearing from members of the community who elect us to these positions. And an assistant, am I making any sense? I still wanna have, I still, you know, we're local government, we're boots on the ground. In my opinion, we do need some assistance with somebody to do some particular duties. And I think we need to figure out what those are. And it may evolve as we move forward in what we think that person, you know, what we find is really helpful and what maybe isn't helpful. I think it's gonna evolve. Cliff, did you wanna chime in at all? Been very quiet. Yeah, I think we're all in agreement that workloads could be shifted around and distributed more evenly, regardless of whether that's through a redistribution amongst the members of the board or amongst the members of the board as well as bringing in the position of select board assistant. I think we have all already stated that we are on board with the idea of bringing in a select board assistant because we voted to include that in our budget for the coming fiscal year. We increased the line item to allow some room for that to happen. I think we are also all in agreement that of course there's always opportunities for improvement and that we should constantly be looking to streamline our processes and procedures to make them as efficient as possible. I don't think anybody's gonna disagree with that idea. And, you know, being able to have shorter meetings, I don't think any of us are gonna vote against that. So, you know, this is a good discussion to have. The other thought that comes to my mind is with regards to this select board assistant, we can look at the things that, you know, when Jonathan left, things that he did got distributed to different people. Yes, Denise took on some of that, but so did the office staff. So we really need to go back to the drawing board as Rick suggested and create that profile of what we want and what we need and what does that person look like. And depending upon that scope, I mean, if you do the math of what we budgeted, that's definitely not pay for a full-time position. And if we determine that whatever we want this to be, looks like it should be a full-time position, then we're gonna have to figure out where we're gonna find the money to do that. And that's why I think starting with a part-time person, and I agree with what you've said, the workload did get distributed because I have a list that I will find when Jonathan left, where we divvied up some of the work. And I know I have it, I just can't put my hands on it right at the moment. But that could help us with deciding and making a list of what we see as items that we would delegate to an administrative assistant, what items different board members might want to take on or do. I don't think we can decide here tonight exactly what that is going to look like. And some of those things that we distributed to other parts of our organization, we may decide we wanna keep them there. For example, HR duties went to Sandra. Yeah. And I think that's a pretty good place for them to be. Right. Yeah, she does a really good job with that. Yeah, I mean, we increased her position from 80% to 100 to absorb those things that she'd taken on from the select board assistant plate. And yeah, I don't think any of us has any reason to think that those need to come back. I hear the agreement and I appreciate that. What I worry about is whether we have the discipline as a group to continue our focus and put a framework in place and then the discipline to stick to that framework. Doing shorter meetings and having a timed agenda, those are things that require for us to be, for the length of our meetings will require a framework and a discipline to evolve and reshape how we do it. I think we need to have time. I don't know if we can have time at every agenda, but I think until we figure all this out, we should have this as a regular agenda item either between seven and nine or that we agree we're gonna meet at 6.30 or something at the beginning of, before each regularly scheduled meeting so that we keep on track and we keep this in the forefront. So the four things that I put in the memo to the board that I want to be sure that we have a commitment to reframing is how we run our meetings, a commitment to a framework where the board works together, each of us as equals. I wanna say out loud, we all vote. Never ever would I say that we don't all vote on things of course we do and we spend a lot of time collaborating but the work that happens outside, I'll take a run at that, that is always Denise and I feel like I want that to be something very evenly distributed and from the get go that it's not one offs. It's that we each have a whatever the, whatever the noun you wanna pick that all of this allows us to reset Denise back to being up here on the board, facilitating the meetings by us taking work on and hiring a select board assistant and then my fourth point was prioritizing hiring a select board assistant to work with us, support us, et cetera. And just for the record, I see myself as a peer on the board. Claire, wanna say something? Yeah, I am more comfortable if we frame that Sharon as redistribution of workload. I too believe that Denise is a peer but she does more than her fair share of work and I'm just more comfortable framing it that way. Thank you for that. And that's all an outgrowth of our having lost our assistant. And I can't go too far down the path but also while we had an assistant, the uptake by that assistant wasn't at the level we had hoped it would be and it didn't occur as timely as we had hoped it would be. So Denise was keeping the balls in the air that are necessary to keep the town running. So without Denise's help, we would have been a whole load of trouble. So, but it all kind of to my mind, it seems to be a friction point and the friction point is not Denise or this idea. The friction point is the same friction point we had prior to hiring a select board assistant and you pan back and is that there's a lot more workload than there was even 20 years ago or 10 years ago. And it can no longer be absorbed by a volunteer board. We're seeing this across so many institutions and these town institutions select boards are just but one example and we all understand that. And so therefore that's why we came to the conclusion we needed an assistant, a full-time assistant. We have paired off some of the duties of that assistant as has been said to Sandra, there might be some other duties that have been realigned. But so let's really focus in time with this effort to getting that ad out and getting this person hired. I mean, we've lost Highway Crew and bang, yes, it's been painful and sometimes it seems a long time but in reflection as compared to select board assistant it's been let rocket speed and the select board assistant positions been frankly, bacon for three plus years. So all of us need to be mindful that we're not being as diligent about getting that thing out in the press, out in the world and getting interviews going. We need to get going on this. And so I think a lot of the issues will be cured with that. Yeah, I would agree with you, John. So not to be the clock watcher, but I am, we have 10 minutes before seven. I was just making a list of what I think are the next steps. One is to make a list of subject areas and functions that we can delegate to specific people. So we've talked about Highway, we know tech could be cliff, there's others. So I think all of us putting our thinking calves on what does that list look like and if we're gonna meet next week, then that can be, that is a crisp clear next step for us. That helps to illuminate what we can do and what a select board assistant can do. And then we need a select board assistant job description. Yeah, we can go back and find the last one, Sharon, that you and I, I think you and I worked on that. I don't think I did. I was new on the board, really, really new. Oh, okay. I know you and I did some interviews. No. We can, no. I'm pretty sure you and I interviewed, but maybe it was, I mean, I think everybody should be involved in hiring the assistant. Absolutely. Sharon interviewed the treasurer, I believe. Oh, maybe that's what it was. I think I can go, yeah. That sounds maybe familiar. Denise, I think one of the things is for you, going back to the point you made earlier about putting it all out there, like I think you have to take it upon yourself because you're the only one who knows everything you do to just like make lists. And I'll ask you, would you please do that with and take your filter off of, well, I want to keep doing that. You know, put it on the list. You can make a little star. I want to keep doing that. I like doing that. But let's look at the whole list of what does Denise do? So that we all have that information because I'm sure there's a lot you do that doesn't really even ever hit our radar. So for us to all understand that to the point of, you know, we're volunteers, you're a volunteer and wanting to be sure that we can sustain the work of the town. So my list is a list of subject areas functions that we can, you know, think of as discreet. A select board. Yep. I want to make sure that Katie's getting this in a minute, Sharon. Yep. That was not one thing. A select board job description that I think comes after the first thing because I kind of want to understand what's the scope of work. And part of that second one was Denise, are you making a list of what does Denise do right now? And then from there, we'll get to, I guess we could look at this before then. And that's kind of, yeah, that's kind of a larger framework but that's something that we still have to do is adopt our guidelines for how we work, right? Right, but that's not gonna, we need to really all look at that and discuss it. Right. So I see that as something we need to do very soon. I don't know if we'll have time tonight to do that. No, I mean, yeah. Can I just say one quick thing so before we get out of the assistant hiring? I mean, I'm not sure, Cliff, can we in our shared folder, do we, is that like Google Docs where we can share writing in a document? I would suggest if it is then why suggest we put a document in there that for that position and we list and prioritize what we're gonna ask them to do to start, that's gonna grow. We're gonna fill that pot up to its full mark eventually but what are we gonna ask them to do? And then that tells us what we're primarily looking for in that person. That becomes our scope. We should be doing that right away because if we get the right person we really get good money. We get good value for what we put into it. Go ahead. And remember right now we've only budgeted for part time so the list may be two phase. Right, absolutely. Maybe what we want them to do immediately and what the position could grow into. That's why I said we prioritize it. We start with those primary functions and then we add it up to the plate the point where their plate is full. We fill that based on their skill sets and then as they grow in expertise too they become more efficient so. Yeah. Yeah, if I might, I was gonna say exactly what Denise said but just to put a finer point on it I think the job description should be the description of the full-time position meaning the entire set of duties are in there and we say at the part time it's this subset it's this subset we're gonna focus on but these remain also your duties but the select board will assign you certain areas of the fuller description acknowledging that you're operating in a part time capacity. So I just wanted in here because we could find that some of that stuff gets picked up by us or migrate somewhere else and we want that in the job description because we don't want the person to say hey, when I was hired, this wasn't in my job description and I'm not agreeing to that. So as Denise always says, other duties as assigned but it's good to have. I agree with you completely on that. That's the whole idea of those kind of prioritizing is that's gonna be what they're starting with but we have to ask that we have to ask for all of it in their qualifications. You're right, John. Yeah, Cliff, did you have any comments? Yeah, thanks. Let me lower my hand here. I'll create a folder in the personnel portion of the shared drive called Select Board Assistant. I'll populate it with a document that we can use as a bucket for catching these things we want this person to accomplish and that way everyone can, something comes to mind you can just jump into the folder and punch in your bullet point. Once you find a copy of the previous job description we can put that in there as well and put it in as an archive for reference rather than a working document and we can then use that to create a working document that assigns these new duties that we imagine for what we ultimately see to be a full-time position. Yeah, I think if I can find that job description or the ad that we originally had will help us to come up with the list of duties and prioritize. Hey, you know who could find that? Who? Rose. Yeah, but I can look through my Word document folders as well, I don't, yeah. And I think there's also an opportunity to maybe create and I think Cliff might have some input on this create a template for policies and procedures so that they kind of all, that they're standardized I guess. Yeah. I can definitely provide some assistance with that because that's what I'm used to seeing in every place else I've been. Yep. But that's... There's a template. Right, but yeah, that's actually I'm gonna write that down. And that to me ties together with a template and then also just what's the framework in a schedule. I'm gonna start building a list of functions but also there's some little projects, right? What we're talking about around policies is a little project that needs some attention and we can work through our little project and then it can hum, but right now it's a project. And I'll try to start keeping track on a list of what I do. And I just have to say that when we no longer had an administrative assistant and I took on some of the duties and responsibilities I did it for the town. And I'm sort of feeling a little bit like no good deed goes unpunished. So often. I'm just saying I don't have any expectation and don't want any comments. That's just how I am somewhat feeling. And I think that you need to respect that. You know, I'm sorry you're feeling that way, Denise. If anything, from my perspective, I know this would be more about how do we ease that load? I mean, and get you doing, you know, free up that time that we best use your time, you know, where we best use it and not have you doing things that are just taking away. You know, that's a huge load on you and it's not particularly productive in the end. That's not you're doing. That's just kind of efficient use of time and personality. That's where, I mean, that would be the intent. It's pretty amazing that you've done all this, quite frankly, that's a lot of work. Like I said, I did it for the benefit of the town because I care about the town. Denise, all right, so. Hang on, Denise, I do want to respond to that point. I know that that's where, I know that that's the spirit in which you do what you do for the board and what you do for, you don't do it for us, you do it for the town and that's appropriate. My concern and worry, as I have said before, is that nobody could step in and do what you do and that really scares me. Yeah. I think you're gonna find that anybody could step in and do what I do, but I guess we need to, it's seven o'clock, we need to move on if everybody's ready in an agreement to respond. I need to respond, Denise, to that comment you said. I don't, I agree with Sharon. I don't think anyone on this board, I'm counting who here has, I don't believe that anyone other than you could do all the things that you do for this board in terms of having the time to do it and the, I'll say it right there, I don't have the initiative you do on behalf of the town. My feeling is I would, I will do so much and then after that, if we need to hire someone. I think it's a problem and as I said before, if Denise chooses not to run again or Denise doesn't wanna be chair anymore or you know, Denise's life gets more complicated than it is right now and you can no longer do this and it's a sudden thing. Sudden things are happening at our age in our life and it's not necessarily our immediate person, it's the folks that surround us who are also aging with us. The letter to our, our you know, functioning as families and friends and community. And if God forbid Denise just couldn't do what she's doing and it happened like that, we'd be in a whole world of hurt, big time. I know Denise would just not go to sleep for and try to do everything, but that's not a good place to be and we need to have a framework that's there and then you know, Denise as the chair maybe takes on more responsibility depending how we parlay all this out. But at the end of the day, there's just too much responsibility in one person. I wouldn't want it in any person. If Cliff said, hey, I'm retired and I love all this stuff and I wanna do everything for you, I would have the identical objection because it's not about the person, it's about the piling of responsibility into one pot into one member of this board. And with that, it's not the intention becomes, it does become and Denise has been good not to take advantage of this, but it also with a lesser person becomes a power shift and it moves power into one board member. We are all equally elected. We all represent constituencies that like us for better and worse and want us on board representing right or not right representing your son is bored. And if there's a board member and I'm gonna keep using Cliff and Cliff's guy doing everything. And I get a call from Joey Jones up on the hill. You know, why is Cliff doing everything? I'm gonna say, why don't you do more? I can't take that on. And you know what, why don't you run for chair? I could never run for chair under the current state not that I want to. But if I did want to, I couldn't do it. And I don't think anyone else could do it. If they felt that maybe it's time to pass the mantle maybe it's time we get a different feel on the board. No one can do that because we have it all piled up on our current chair. And it just, it creates an imbalance. Denise has been doing Yeoman's work keeping the balance will do. But at the end of the day there is at very least there's a perception of imbalance. And you know, in bottom line is Denise is gonna get blamed for all the mistakes that the rest of us make. And we've already seen that. So that's another reason you don't want it all on one member of this board's plate. So I'm off. And I'm agreeing that we need to look at all of the duties, parse them out, make things more equal. So I'm not disagreeing. I'm just saying. What? Yeah, just to add to the other comments the board members have made and I'll be brief because we do need to get to our next agenda items. But I just want to add to that. Thank you for your commitment to the town Denise and for what you do. And I definitely agree with everyone that if there is an opportunity to level out the workload we should look at that and make it happen. Thank you. Thank you. All right, is it? And I think it's my clock. The power went out the other night and my clock is flashing. So I have to be looking down and see what time it is. 705. All right, thank you. All right. So we called the meeting to order at seven o'clock and as we have on our agendas regularly is there a public comment for items not on the agenda or any additions or changes to the agenda? And we already made a change that we would at seven o'clock do some of the other items noted under the organizational meeting. All right, hearing nothing. Yes, that means we're ready to move on to the organizational portion of the meeting. Election of officers. I would like to move and looking for a second that we appoint Denise Wheeler as chair. Let's second. Okay, we need to take a roll call vote. Cliff? Rick? Rick, you got a vote. Oh, yes, I said yes, I'm sorry. And according to COVID regulations now that we're doing meetings on Zoom and it's a form of the board doing it on Zoom, we have to do each thing that we do. We have to do a roll call vote. I'm sorry, I didn't explain that. Oh, it's okay. Yeah, is there a proper response then? I said yes, but... Yep, John? Yes. Okay, Sharon? Yes, I... Okay, and I'm going to abstain and not vote for myself. Okay, vice chair. I would nominate Sharon Fannin. I'll second. I'll second that. All right, any second, okay. Okay, let's take a roll call vote. Cliff? Hi. I'm an aye. Rick? Yes. Sharon? I'll abstain. Great, John? Yes. Okay, some other organizational stuff that would be good to get done tonight if everybody has things we have a couple minutes to do this. We need to set our official meeting dates, time and location for the ensuing year. We've normally been meeting on the second and fourth Mondays, un-normally and normally at seven, depending on if there's other items that we need to do. And we had been meeting at the town office, had to change to Zoom. So whenever things open up, I assume we would probably be meeting at the town hall, but we can probably make that decision later on, depending on how things sugar out with COVID. Is everybody good with the second and fourth Monday? Yeah, at six o'clock, do you name a time too? Yeah, usually we meet at seven. Sometimes we have to meet a little at a different, a little bit different timing. And then... Are we gonna vote on all of that, or do we even have to? You know, I don't know, we probably should at the end vote on all of these things instead of maybe doing a roll call vote for every one of these items. We could do it as a block. I just, on the meeting time, seven is great. And I just wanna say, as an aspirational goal, not something that we're gonna carbon stone tonight, but aspirational goal that our meetings are from seven to nine. That would be a great goal. Yes. Okay, locations are posting notices where we've been posting is East Calus post office because the store is now closed. Maple Corner store, the town office, the town website and front porch form. So I would recommend that those seem to be the locations that people know that that's where they're gonna be. Front porch form is probably our best option. It gets, I think it gets to the most people. We're supposed to choose a newspaper of record for public notices. And Judy, you can maybe chime in on this. I think we've been using times, I guess, and hardwood set. But I think the hardwood set gets to a lot of people in Calus. Is that where we've been posting things? We've been doing times, I guess, the hardwood set is not a paper anymore, it's just online. And I don't think you've been posting, I mean, just like employment notices and that sort of thing. Is that different? If we're doing an employment notice, don't we just decide where we're gonna post it? This says newspapers of record for public notices. So a public notice could be an ad for employment, it could be, we're looking to buy 5,000 yards of gravel. I mean, I think it could be any notice. But okay, but we can say it's the times Argus. Yep. And that's the one of record, which doesn't preclude us if we decided we wanted to put something in hardwood set here and there. I mean, I think isn't the point of notice so that somebody who wants to see what we're up to, they know the one place to go and they're always gonna find it. Right, and that would be probably the times Argus. I think most people or businesses or anything in the area probably use the times Argus, but that doesn't preclude us from using other sources like the world or the hardwood set. That's what I was gonna say is the world, I think reaches more people in central Vermont, but I don't know how many use that. I think, yeah, but the problem with the world is that it's weekly. And I think times Argus still daily. It is some days it's paper and some days it's online only. Yeah, I know when we publish it, we have notices of DRB hearings and things like that. We use the times Argus. I think that's a standard that everybody's used to. Right, I don't hear us saying we're gonna drop times Argus. I think, again, the point is to say, this is our official newspaper. And if you wanna see what we're up to, the times Argus is the place to go. And by taking hardwood Gazette off, the impact is don't count on it. But we can always choose to use it if we feel like it, right? Yeah, we just need to designate a paper of record. So I think that's- I know it only needs to be one, not two. Yeah, I think that, and I think the times Argus is the go to. Okay, yeah. Okay, so let's vote on that block of items if everybody's ready to do so. The second and fourth. Yeah, seven, seven, seven. Locations or postings we did. Katie, do you wanna read that back, please? Yes. So I would write somebody made a motion to approve items B and C, because I'm keeping a little list. Item B is official meeting schedule. The select board set the Zoom virtual call as their official meeting place on second and fourth Mondays of each month at 7 p.m. Sharon Winfanden noted an aspirational goal to set meetings to last from seven to 9 p.m. Item C. Should I keep reading or did anyone wanna say something? No, go ahead. Now go ahead. Item C, official posting locations for agendas. We'll be at the town office, East Kela's post office, Maple Corner Store, and electronically on front porch forum. The newspaper of record for public notices shall be the times Argus. Did you, in your list of posting locations did, maybe I just didn't hear you, would be the town office and the town website. Town office, East Kela's post office, the Maple Corner Store, electronically on front porch forum, and I'll add the town website. Yeah, yeah, cause you post the notices on the calendar there. So that's really a good place for people to go to to see what's going on. So I would move that block of items. Is there a second? I'll second. Okay. Any further discussion or comments? All right, Cliff, you ready to vote? I am, and I will vote aye. Okay, and I'm an aye. Rick? Yes. Sharon? Yes. John, the yes. Sharon? Yes. Okay. One other thing that we should do tonight is have the delegation of people that are going to be signing off on orders. It had been Cliff, Rose, and I, and I'm just thinking logistically, what could work? I know Cliff lives on County Road, Rick lives just off County Road. And I don't know whether or not it's, you know, Rick it's a, and I don't know about other board members. If other board members think they want to be responsible for committing to signing and getting things moved around to another person, but it's a good opportunity for Rick to learn stuff that's going on with the board by signing off on the orders. Just to explain the process so Rick understands it, what we normally pre-COVID, Rick, the orders were circulated at the regular meetings and all of the select board members would sign off on them. Sure. When we were forced into our current situation, we agreed that as long as we could get at least three members of the board to sign off on them, that would meet the intent. And so by trial and error, we ended up with a process where basically Denise picks them up from Sandra at the town office. She reviews them, signs off on them, goes back to Sandra if there's any questions on anything gets clarification. Once they're ready to go in her eyes, then she notifies me they're available for pickup. I drive over to her place, pick them up, and then I review them and sign them. And at that point, I would then ping Rose and say, okay, I've got another batch of orders for you. And then she'd come over to my place and pick them up and review them, sign off on them and drop them back off at the town office. Is that me? Can I just add something? Sure. I just wanna add how well that's worked from my perspective. Early on, we were trying to do a rotational that was where each of us had them and I am terrible at getting over to the town office, picking them up, that whole logistics thing, just so I appreciate that Cliff and Rose and Denise made that happen. Rick, it's up to you and I could make another run, but mostly I'm really thankful that those three made it work. Yeah, so you want me to be the lead to kind of pick those up and then we'd still have the three people reviewing, correct? No, we would do the kind of the same process where you would pick up where Rose left off with picking them up from Cliff. Yeah, sure, I'm glad to do that. I'm used to dealing with board orders from, yeah. Yeah, so I mean, I think it'll be a good way for you to sign and see what's going on. I think it's really helpful. All right, so would somebody like to move that item? I would love to. Can I make the motion that the board, until we're meeting again in person, that the board delegate to Cliff, Rick and Denise reviewing and signing the board orders. Okay, is there a second? I'll second it. Okay, let's vote, Cliff. Hi. I'm an I, Rick. Hi. John. Hi. And Sharon. And if there's something that comes up that I've found that's an issue, I will ask Sandra and then a lot of times I will update the board at a meeting of something that I found or had a question on, so that there's a clear communication. Is that a monthly, how often are we doing, are we doing weekly, bi-weekly monthly? It's like every, it's been pretty much like every other week. So bi-weekly, yeah, it's in a billing cycle. Okay, that sounds good. And also just to keep it from stacking up and back. Yeah, no kidding, I know. Yeah. Okay. Okay, is, I don't see, Toby's not on, right, Cliff? No, he's not, but Alfie is with us. Okay. I don't see him. Or the friend. Oh, you don't see him, but he's not there. Oh, there he is. I see him, there he is. Alfred, you there? There you go. There you are. How are you? I'm well, how are you? Good. How are things? Good, good. We are entering our fifth season. Very much season, right? Yes. Yes. Yes, indeed. Yeah, they're talking 50 degrees. Oh yeah, I heard that. And rain on Friday. Oh boy. I heard freezing rain, Alfred. Well, that could very well be. In the evening, it drops down to that magical temperature. So it's likely that we do get some freezing rain. Do you have any other updates for us? Well, I could talk to you about employees. Okay, I'll be back in like 30 seconds. Go ahead. Okay, that's nothing bad. Is this, yeah, Alfred, this isn't something that needs to be an executive session. I don't think so, no. Okay. It's just about dates for upcoming dates for things that everybody knows about. So should I wait for Denise to come back? No, you can go ahead. I think you can keep going. Oh, okay. So Tyler has got a test date for his license on March 17th. So he's been operating under his permit. So he's able to, with his permit, he's able to drive the little half ton truck, or the three quarter ton truck we got. It's a one ton truck actually, but it's the smallest truck that we have. He's legal to drive that. So I've been using him there until he gets his license. So on the 17th, that's gonna happen. This phone's gonna stop. So on the 17th, he's going to get his, hopefully pass his license. He's gonna use a town truck to take that license with. And so then he should be all up and running. The other date that stands out in my mind is Bruce is gonna be vaccinated on the 18th, I guess. He's got an appointment for that. So with that, everything is falling into place. Things are working out there. And I have to say that given some of the challenging circumstances, I appreciate what you've done to keep the roads being tamed. Yeah, I think we've kept up with it for the most part. My hat goes off to Ed Rao. I mean, without him, we would have been in serious trouble just because he was there and he knows the roads. He knows, you know, he was a very large help during the situation. Yeah, we owe him a huge world of thanks. Maybe I'll get a, we could do a thank you letter. Yeah, yeah, it's something. I mean, I don't, you know, I'm just... I mean, I know he's getting paid, but a thank you is always nice. Right, right. Well, I mean, he wants to be part time and you know, when Bruce went out, he automatically became full-time. He was there like every day. So that's why I wanna recognize him a little bit because I certainly appreciate him being there through the bulk of the winter. Yep. All right, anything else? No, I mean, I think everything is business as usual. Like I said, month seasons about to start. There's not much I can do at first until it starts getting real deep. I have started to uncover my gravel pile so I can file and I can get into some decent gravel for when it does, when it does really loosen up because the pit won't open for a while yet. So I've got a pretty sizable pile of gravel there in stock so we'll be set for that. Yeah, well, let's hope for a gradual month season not the bottom fallout. Yeah, yeah, well, I mean, it's looking that way right now. Cold at night, warm during the day. I mean, that's what the doctor orders really. But yeah, if we get three days of 60 degrees and not freezing at night, that's when we're gonna be in trouble. Right, right, and I apologize. I forgot to, you probably know Rick, but he's- Yes, hi, Rick, how are you? Good, good, good. I wanna get together with you really soon, by the way. So I'll call you. Sure. I have a couple of things I wanna- Yeah, yeah, you come by anytime or call me and we'll line something up for sure. Sounds good. Great, that'd be great. Yeah. Anything else, Alfred? I can't think of anything. I'm getting some estimates for a couple of grants that Toby and I are working on and I'm still in search for a used truck to pick up. And I'm hoping now that town meeting has passed for a lot of towns, there might be one available that one town is trading in or whatnot. So I'm still pursuing that, but not a lot of decent trucks out there right now. Yeah, and we wanna make sure that it's better than what we're replacing. Absolutely, right. So and don't forget, when you find something, you know the questions that we're gonna ask and those kinds of things is what we'll be looking for so that we can do things efficiently and make a decision. And also with the grants, Toby sent around a list today which you saw. So it would be just for you and Toby to be aware so that you're providing the board with information so we can make a decision at a meeting information ahead of time for review and that we can put in the public folder of what the grant is for, how much, what's the town share, you know those kinds of things are information that we're gonna be asking for in order to make an informed decision. Right, right. Yeah, like I said, I'm getting estimates right now. So that's all part of the, for applying for the grants. So once I get the estimates that will tell us the town share and all that stuff. Okay. All right. Are you guys hearing anything about the roads that I should hear about or know about? No, no, that's what I said. I think, thank you to you for making sure with the challenging employee status that you, you know, the roads have been, I haven't heard complaints. Right, okay. Yeah, I'm not hearing anything. I have, I have. Let me guess. No, no, no, no, no need, no need. But I'm not doing my job as a citizen member of the slide board. If I don't say Alfred, please be careful of the trees when you're snow plowing. That is the end of my public service now. Okay, thank you. Yep. All right. Anything else Alfred or anybody from the board or the anybody else that's here want to ask? Cliff, Cliff, you're on mute. Any progress on the temp front? On the who front? The, the temp employee part-time. Oh, I have, I have heard absolutely nothing. Okay. It's been in for, I think it's going on the second week now and I have gotten zero calls on that. And like I said, it's a tough spot to fill because it's hard to find somebody for just part-time and to be on call. Yeah. So I have nothing to report about that. Nobody's called. Nobody's showed any interest at all. Okay. Well, yeah, I'm sure you'll keep searching. Yeah. Well, I'm going to keep putting the word out and, and searching verbally, but I think we should probably stop advertising as it's costing the town money every time we do that. Okay. So we'll just let the advertisement cease and I'll keep spreading the word verbally and hopefully the right person will, will jump up. Have we posted anything on Front Porch Forum about this? It was on Front Porch Forum. I'm sorry, Sharon, I didn't see your hand up. It was on Front Porch Forum when we advertised the rest, you know, the, with the, and the other places. Yeah. Cause you know, somebody, we could maybe get folks from neighboring, somebody from a neighboring town who posted on their Front Porch Forum, I'm thinking Woodbury, Worcester, East Montpelier, you know, Marshfield, we could have a standardized posting the Front Porch Forum. We could see if we could get other towns, somebody from another town to post it for us, maybe a town court from another town or something that might help spread the word. Right. I've done, I've done that with other things, not select board related and it does help. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure. But I think other towns are in the same boat, you know, everybody's trying to have, trying to have extra guys to drive a truck. And I talked to Guthrie and he's Montpelier today and he's, he's got no spare guys. I mean, he's got just his, his everyday crew. And that's that he is heading on all, all winter. Wow. So it's, it's not, it's just not an easy spot to fill. You know, it's got to be somebody that's either retired or and wants to a little bit more, you know, income or, you know, it's just a tough spot to fill. But I will continue to look and see what I can see who I can wrestle out of the woods. Yeah. Look under the, look, you know, rattle the leaves and shake pushes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I guess that's all I have to comment about. Okay. Great. Thank you. Anybody, anybody else? Do you want me, do you want me on for the storm water plan that's on the agenda? Well, it's not on the agenda yet because it hasn't been waiting for Pam just at a time. But when she does, yes, you should definitely participate. Yeah. Okay. I just thought it was on the agenda for tonight. Yeah. No. Must have misread it. I read it somewhere. Must have been a need for something. Okay. I guess if there's nothing else that you're welcome to stay. Yeah. No, I think I'll go eat supper if you're, if you're done with me for the evening. Okay. And anybody else have anything? Alfred, just for clarification, you did read it on the agenda, but it's under the, at the bottom of the agenda as a future agenda item. Okay. So you're not hallucinating. Yeah, you're not. Yeah, you didn't. Well, you know, sometimes I work a lot of hours. I sit in the track a long time. So sometimes I don't read things clear, but yes, I knew I read it somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. It's there, but it's just not tonight. Yeah. Okay. All right. Okay. Very good. All right. Thank you very much. All right. Have a good night all. Yeah. Thanks, Elton. Take care of that. Bye now. So we have next, our annual renewal of liquor licenses. We have Atomat Co-op in the corner store. And they're in the folder. If Katie or Cliff wants to call them up. We do this, yeah, we do this annually and they have to be done by, I think it's April 5th, but I'm not positive. So we have time, but it's good to just get them done. And both entities have provided the necessary checks. Once we approve these, which I'm assuming we will do, they go back to the town office and I believe it says, I think I saw somewhere where I believe it's Judy has to forward them to, if you go down a little more, yeah, the town or city clerk shall mail. So once it's signed, they go back to the town office. And I did look at this, I looked at Maple Corner and I looked at Atomat and you'll notice on Atomat the whole board of directors signed off and on Maple Corner, the acting interim general manager signed off. So either way is okay if we go back up to where the board members are. And if, yeah, see here, this is all of the Atomat board members, but it can also be delegated to signature of authorized agent, of corporation, company club or association. So Maple Corner had their interim general manager sign off. So that's the only difference that caught my eye when I was looking at these on the, so we should probably do them individually. Denise, one thing I'm noticing is this is dated January, 2012. Where do you see that? Oh, I think they just got the date mixed up. They're dyslexic. Yeah. I think maybe we just, whoever Princess and signs it for us just, you know. Fixes the date, good catch. Yeah, just somehow note that we assume that this is a mistake and that we're signing it in January or March, 2021, regardless of when they signed it. Yeah, I think somebody just got their years mixed up, which is easy enough to do between 12 and 21. But thanks for catching that. Would somebody like to make a motion to approve? Which one is this? This is Atomat, right? Approve the renewal of the liquor license for Atomat co-op. So moved. Hey, is there a second? Second. Good. Any other comments or questions? Oh, that's my hand. All right. Cliff, would you like to vote? I. I'm an I, Rick. I. Sharon. I. And John. Yes. Katie. Can you please remind me who did the motion in second? I was adding in a language about that edit to the. I made the motion, Katie. And Sharon seconded it. Thank you. I thought Katie wanted to vote for this. Yeah. No, she lives closer to Maple Corner. Either one. Okay. They're all equal. Can I ask a quick question? And does that get, do we assign a proxy vote for this? Or do I mean a signature or do we kind of? Oh, we should. Yes. We should designate someone to sign it on behalf of the board since we're not. So we're doing this. We usually have them in front of us when we do these. And then we all sign it. But we could make a motion for this one and Maple Corner to go to authorize somebody to sign on behalf of the board. So would you like to do that after we look at Maple Corner? Yeah, I think once you approve Maple Corner, then it would make sense to do that. Assuming we end up approving Maple Corners if there's no question. Yeah, let's double check the date. Are you calling it up? There it is. Yep. The form says 2021 at the top. I don't think you could... Yep. Yeah, I mean, you'll notice this is where it's different with Adamant where the general manager signed it. And either way is okay because then if you read up at the top, it says. Whoever they authorize. Yeah, whoever their authorize representative is. All right. I would make a motion to approve the renewal of the liquor license for Maple Corner store. I'll second it. Okay, any further comments or is everybody ready to vote? Okay, Cliff. I'm an eye, but just want to make sure everybody's aware that there's really two applications here. Yeah, I think it's a duplicate, I believe. As I recall, it had to do two because of the whammy bar. Right, yeah. And that's another difference between Adamant and Maple Corner, you're right. So do we have to approve these as separate items? Or do we? Yeah. We can just say move to approve both applications. That's good. And just to be clear. John. The whammy bar last I knew also had a liquor dispensary license. So the Maple Corner license is very, they can sell beer and wine, but the bar is able to dispense alcohol, including liquor. Yeah. And if you look at the further down in the paperwork, I think there's a form there where it shows that what I can't remember his name now where he has taken the course for being a server. Kind of unfair for them that, are they still full pricing these folks on the license because they can't even utilize it. I don't know. Or it's not allowed to be open. Yep, I don't know. That's a good question. Not right. Yeah. Well, and you'll see where he passed the server training and the. First class server training. Yep. And seller. So he's probably somebody new to doing this. So did we have, did we have a motion? I can't remember now. We did. We did. We did. Clip augmenting on the motion. So yeah, I would propose a friendly amendment to the motion. Could you read the motion back to us, Katie? Yes. Denise Wheeler moved and Rick Keane seconded to approve both renewals of the 2021 2022 liquor license applications for the Maple Corner Store. Parentheses, the bar dispenses alcohol, including liquor and the store can sell and parentheses. And we want to probably say Maple Corner Store and whammy bar. Gotcha. Okay, works for me. I'm an eye. Okay, I'm an eye. Rick. Hi. Karen. Hi. And John. Yes. All right. So everybody in Calis can now legally drink. That's what we were waiting for. Yeah, that's right. We need, we need a motion for signature. I would make the motion that we authorize the select board chair to sign off on both of these applications, the one received from Adam and co-op, as well as the one we see from Maple Corner's community store slash whammy bar on behalf of the entire select board. Okay, is there a second? Second. All right. Ready to vote. Cliff. Hi. I'm an eye. Rick. Hi. Karen. Hi. John. Yes. Okay, moving on. Chris Cochran would like to talk to us about a request and support for North Calis to apply to be a village center. So I'll let him explain and board members jump in with questions as you need answers to. You want to give us a little background, Chris? Yeah. And the ultimate goal here and what you're trying to, what this will accomplish when, if you get this designation, what that would mean. Yeah, absolutely. Chris Cochran, resident of North Calis Village. And I'm here, as Denise said, to request your support and assistance seeking village center designation for North Calis. Currently, this is a state designation process. And currently, Maple Corner, East Calis and Adamant are designated village centers. I think this was done in 2014. North Calis wasn't included because it didn't at the time meet the criteria. You had to have at least one civic building or public building within the village center. And while North Calis was hustling and bustling many, many years ago, we don't have one. But I guess the good news and the change on the horizon is the North Calis Memorial Hall Association has been actively fundraising and aims to begin construction on the Memorial Hall renovation this spring. So that is a changing factor that I believe will make us eligible for village center designation. The reason we want the designation, and I did email all the residents who are affected in the village and nobody was concerned and everybody was supportive. The reason we want this to seek the village center designation is it allows the North Calis Memorial Hall Association. It gives them some advantages in several different state granting programs. It also allows them to qualify for tax credits. And the tax credits are particularly helpful to us. They've been very helpful to, I guess, all the stores in each of the villages. The process is pretty simple. The application is pretty straightforward. In the past, what we do is we check in with the state of Vermont and we work with the Regional Planning Commission on the application board, the state board, the downtown board reviews these applications once a month. It is a relatively easy application. And I think that's probably, I'm going to pause there and to see if you have, oh, it just is a benefit district. There's no strings that come with it. It just recognizes, it creates a map. It recognizes the village centers. And all the buildings, all the income producing or commercial buildings within that designated area are eligible for tax credits. And the entire village is given priority consideration for state grants. OK. I do have a few questions. Absolutely. I'm curious as to what you're asking the select board to do just to vote to support this. Yeah. Yep. The application requires select board support. And I don't know if there's going to be a cost. The town pays regional or dues to the Regional Planning Commission. I don't know if this gets rolled up into that. There may be a cost associated with developing this application. So it would be good to know if CVRPC is going to do it as part of what they do. Have you checked with them? No. When I emailed you, I asked if you wanted me to find that out before this meeting. And I never heard back. So I just assumed you wanted to get direction from the select board. And then I can follow up with them on costs and time and figure that piece out. Yep. And can I ask a quick question? Go ahead. Yeah, go ahead. And this is, I'm just quite, do you know, have you talked to the Planning Commission, too, on how this relates to any zoning overlays that are in? It doesn't relate to any zoning overlays, yes. And when I initially emailed Denise about getting on the agenda, she copied all the Planning Commission members. Good. OK. Excellent. Just making sure that they were in. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is there any reason? I mean, I heard I have a little placeholder in my mind for there might be a cost. I'm assuming it's not a big cost. Chris, is there any reason that we wouldn't or that a town wouldn't want to see this happening in one of its areas of town? I mean, not in my mind. All like I said, it just provides grants, gives you priority consideration for state grants. It comes with no obligation other than kind of the cost of producing the application. Applications, once they're approved, are good for eight years. And I think they're renewed every eight years. And it's a pretty simple process, if nothing's changed. So if you want to improve the quality of life in your communities, this is a good thing to do to move the ball. And that's true. You said, hang on, Denise. Let me just follow up quickly. You said not in your mind, but I think you also, if I were to say, but play devil's advocate, you'd still say, yeah, no, I got nothing. I read the application. Like I said, there's no strings that come along with it. It is a benefit district. It is the intent of it is to recognize the historic settlements of our communities. These areas often struggle for various reasons. And the goal of the program is to revitalize them. So will you be asking the board? Sorry, go ahead, John. Maybe Chris can explain how this differs from a designated downtown and how this relates to Act 250 jurisdiction, if at all. Act 250 jurisdiction currently doesn't, you know, there's no law that recognizes Village Center designation. So it has no relationship to them. Downtown designation is a very different animal. It's a much more labor intensive process. It requires communities get, you know, basically a create a nonprofit organization to support revitalization in the community. It tends to be limited to the larger communities in the state. So Montpelier is our closest, you know, downtown designated downtown district. They have a lot more people and a lot more staff capacity to support that larger organizational process. However, I understand Hardwick is interested, but they've been interested for many years. It's just they haven't had the capacity to do it. That designation brings additional benefits for the additional work. But it's just, it wouldn't be the right size, you know, there's not enough there, there in North Calisthen qualify. Hang on, Jan. I want to give the board opportunity to ask questions first. So my question is, will you be coming back to us with a letter that you're going to want us to sign to submit with the application? No, all we need is just look to the application. All it needs is just emotion in the minutes that the select board, you know, supported the application. If you want to write a letter, we'd be happy to draft one for you to sign, but that's all that is minimally required is a record of, you know, a public hearing that the select board reviewed this and made a decision whether to support it or not. Okay. All right. Board members, any further questions? And then I'll let Jan in speak. All right, go ahead. Oh, Sharon. Yeah, so is this ripe for us to vote on tonight, Chris? Or you're going to come back with a cost and I heard you offer to draft a letter for us. Well, you know, I'm happy to, it's not needed. I can draft a letter for you if you need it. The question whether it's ripe is really up to you. If you want me to figure out, you know, ask the planning or the regional planning commission if there is a cost associated with this or they'll roll us into the dues. That's a question. If you want to wait, you certainly can. I don't think it's many hours of work. It's two or three hours of work to create essentially a map of the village center district. And there's, I don't know, eight, 10 buildings. So it shouldn't take them too long, but that's your decision, whether this is ripe or you want to wait until you have that piece of information before you make a decision. I think it would be good for us to know from my perspective just how much it might cost. We have time because we can put this back on the agenda for the 22nd when we provide us that information. Yeah. So what I would want is then if you want to do this in two pieces is authorization for me to go check in with the plan or with the regional planning commission on what those costs will be. Okay. And I think we can certainly, I don't want to get ahead of us here, but we can kind of give you a nod assuming that there's minimal, yeah, minimal unappreciable costs. It strikes me as equity and fairness. If the other villages are designated, you'd be in a difficult position to say, well, no, it's this is, we don't want to spend $20 to get North Calus designated or whatever the heat. I want to give Jan a chance to talk because she may know having the planning commission having done this for the other three, she may know what the cost has been. Jan, do you have any idea? There was no cost for the application for either Maple Corner, Adamant or East Calus. John McCullough did those three almost in one week. I think I'm not sure who I, my understanding was from John, it was the planning commission, central regional, the planning, regional planning commission that did the actual drawing of the boundaries of the designated village center. And then- Can you say that again? I didn't touch it. CVRPC did the drawings? Yes, did the boundary of the designated village center based on the buildings that were there. And the reason that's my understanding from John what had happened. And as far as I know, there was no cost involved at that time. And I don't think it would be any cost this year either because they want as many villages to have a designated village center that they can get. The other thing that I want you all to think about is when you go out on the interactive map, if you ever go out on the interactive map that we have on the website, you will see there's these little tiny yellow lines that are within the residential village district. And it's the little tiny yellow line that tells you what's in the designated village center. And it's only that area within that designated village center that gets the quote unquote money for the tax credits and is applying to the grant. So it's a very small subset of the residential village district. Yeah, that's a great point. It's just, yeah, it's going to be the core of the village. So I can probably throw my rock, a rock, and I'd be able to get the rock outside the village center district in North Calus. And it goes like probably, I don't know. Or the pond. Yeah. So, Jan. I think what I'm about, no, go ahead, Sharon. Yeah, no, we might be going to the same place. Jan, by extension, I think you're saying there's not likely to be any cost. I don't think there's going to be any cost because this will be part of something that the Regional Planning Commission would do very willingly. I don't recall it, at least in the planning in 2014, I don't recall there ever being a cost. And I don't think the town ever had any cost of doubt, either. And Chris, you said you don't necessarily need a letter. You just need our vote of support. Yeah, I need a vote of support. And then, you know, I think, I agree with Jan. I don't think it's going to be a cost, but it's a question I did not run down because I wasn't sure how you wanted to have this conversation. I mean, you could most structure your motion or decision to say yes, contingent upon, you know, me finding additional information, what the costs are, then you don't have to have this as another agenda item again. Yeah, that's what I was going to suggest based on the additional information. So we need a motion. So the motion would be that the Calis Select Board supports the application for North Calis to apply to be a designated village center. Is that correct? On the assumption that there are no costs. Or de minimis costs, however you want to define that. I mean, there may be a cost. I would hate to see that, you know, if it costs $10 under that motion, it would be void. Well, how about we add to the motion then that the motion is dependent on under 50? Yeah, if it's, you know, something to the effects of that there's, we don't have to do this again, but, you know, if it's a minimal cost, then the, you know, the go ahead is still there. Yeah, under 50, under 100. I would say under 100 or under. Is there a second? I'll second that. Could I make a conditional, should we make it conditional on the North Cal store being reopened, Chris? Yes, it has a story, you know. Yeah. Okay, are you ready to vote? Denise Chan wants to add something to our discussion. I appreciate that you're doing a motion, but I think what would also be very important is to write a letter of support that goes in that Chris can put in with his application that says the town supports this move. I think it looks good to have a letter of support when you're doing such an application and copy the central Vermont Regional Planning and Bonnie. I think Chris said that it didn't seem like that was necessary. So I would leave it up to your judgment, Chris. It's not necessary, but I'm happy to do it. I think it's a nice thing to do, but it's not gonna, you know, it's really, if you want me to write a letter, it's take me 10 minutes, not a big deal. Yeah. Well, if you think that that, if you think it would be helpful, I'm pretty sure the board would support signing a letter of support. Okay, terrific. Maybe we should have our vote. It can be five minutes. We all know we're gonna vote. Yes, get the letter, put a stamp on it next time. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it should be quick since we're in support of it anyways. So going back to the motion, are you ready to vote? Rick? Yes. Yes. Hi. I'm an I, Sharon. Hi. Cliff. Hi. And John. Yep. Rating. There you go. But we're gonna see the letter, right? The board is gonna see the letter. Yeah. Just so you know, I'm just a timeline for this. You know, this is gonna be like three or four months of, you know, I will chat with the regional planning commission tomorrow, get a sense of what the costs are. If they're, you know, and I'll, Denise, I'll just follow up with you if there's any, you know, cost or concern to just pass the information onto you to share, you know, the application process. You know, it could be as short as a month, but my goal would be, you know, once the application is finished, be able to share that with you and then you can see what your letter of support is supporting. Sounds good. That can be. Thank you for doing it. Oh, absolutely. No, my pleasure. And this will be a huge help to the folks working to rehab the hall. So thank you for your support and congratulations on your election. And thank you for many years of service. Rick. Thank you, Chris. You're very welcome. Welcome to the team, huh? Yeah. Yeah. He's got a huge learning or a right, Chris. He's up for the job. I'm confident. Yeah. And if he has, he's got a lawyer who will help him out. That's right. That's true. That's true. All right. We have the Lister mapping request. The Listers put in the budget for this fiscal year, $2,300 to $3,600. They didn't do any mapping last year. And Jan explained at our informational meeting when somebody asked about budget for the Lister mapping, that this would be, and I'll get Jan to clarify everything, but no mapping was done last year. So this is going to be two years worth of mapping. Last year we budgeted $2,000 and it wasn't used. This year we budgeted $3,600 and they're going to be able to do two years. Is that correct, Jim? Yeah. I mean, the money and the budget this year might be used, but it depends on when she issues her bill. This is a contract. Chris Chamberlain is the mapper. She took over from RJ Turner mapping. She's been doing our mapping for the last five years. She does it through state specs. So everything is done that meets all of the requirements of the state for mapping and the Central Vermont Regional Planning Commission. And so there's an interrelationship that all of our parcels when it's mapped goes on to the state A&R maps and all of that kind of good stuff. This is just a pro forma contract that she wanted the select board to sign. And it got lost after I'd sent it out late in December, knowing that I was going to put this in, ask for it to be in the budget. It got approved in the budget. And I think we're just minding our P's and Q's and getting a contract signed for Chris. Okay. And this contract runs from April 2019 to April 2021, right? April 2019 to April 2021, right? No, it would cover, well, it's going to cover whatever it, she won't be done until probably July of 2021. It's going to cover through the fiscal year of whatever our fiscal year ends with just 2022. Okay, because in one place it says, from April 2019 to April 2021, and then it says that the workshop is performed about December 2020 through July 2021. Okay. So that's what we're approving folks. Would anybody like to make a motion to sign this contract? I'll move that. Is there a second? I'll second it. Okay, and then we need to, have someone authorize to sign on behalf of the board. Yeah, so in that motion, in my motion I would authorize Jan Olson to sign on behalf of the select board. I think it has to be. Select board member. It has to be the select board member. Okay, oh well. I think I make a motion or add to the motion that we authorized Denise and in the spirit of any Denise can be our designated signer for tonight's meeting. All right, is there a second to the amendments? Second. All right, are you ready to vote? Rick? Yes. I'm an aye. Cliff? Aye. John? Yep. And you're sharing, would you like to vote, Sharon? Aye. Okay. Very good. All right, so we're at a point in the agenda where I would ask that the board go into executive session, discuss personnel matter and invite the town clerk to join us. Thank you, Jan. Yeah, thanks. Thanks, Jan. Thank you for supporting. And I'm so sad that it's going to be mud season because we're supposed to be out doing inspection starting this week. And we should have gone today, darn it all. Yeah, you should have. All right, thank you, Orca. Katie? I have a question. I usually call Rose or email Rose at the end of the meeting and she takes, I sent her like a fill in the blank form and then she fills in for me, you know, if there was anything to report after executive session, the time that someone made a motion to adjourn, who seconded it? I wonder who you'd like me to email with that request. Who would like to do that tonight? I'm glad to. You just tell me what you need to get. You just need to have the time, any motion for adjourn. Yeah, Katie will send you the blanks to fill in. Okay, Katie, you've got my email. Okay, and it sounds like Sharon, you'll help Rick make sure he knows, like if there's a statement that the board wants coming out of executive session. Yeah, we're always really careful to think about. You're thoughtful about how, what are we reporting? Yeah, right. It looks like you're going to return to other updates tonight. Do you want me to call back in or does someone want to text me or will, will you let me know if there's anything substantial there? I can't see, what time is it? 806. It's after eight. Yeah, so I'm imagining that by the time we get done, it might be eight, 30 quarter of nine. So if we're looking to try to adjourn by around nine, we might not need to do these updates. I just routinely put them on there just in case there is something so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle. Gotcha. Good night, everybody. Thank you. Thank you, Katie. Hi, Katie. Thank you. All right. Do we need to have a second to that motion and vote before we actually go into the executive session? Yes, we should. I second the motion. Okay, ready to vote. Rick. Hi. I'm an eye. Sharon. Hi. John. Hi. And Cliff. Hi. All righty. The recording has stopped. Oh, so that's Orca. No, that's us now. Orca. Bye-bye. Bye, Drew.