 Welcome to NewsClick. Today we are going to discuss about higher education and what happens in a higher education institution. For long we have been hearing news of students from the marginalized communities, women especially, are discriminated in higher educational institutions because these are spaces, not for them. These spaces have always been for the elites but now things have changed. In the past two decades, lots of women students and the students from marginalized communities especially the OBCs, SESTs and some minority students have also started accessing higher education. But we all know that be it the case of Rohit Vemula or be it the case of IITs where the students were discriminated and it had become a national talking point. But it looks like we haven't learned anything because there was no study conducted in India to address these issues. But to talk to us about these issues we have Professor Sangeeta Kamath who teaches at the University of Massachusetts Amherst who works on the issues of higher education, educational policy and development. She is going to talk to us about what needs to be done because a team led by her and others have recently released a beautiful report called the Inclusive Universities linking diversity, equity and excellence for the 21st century. Congratulations ma'am on this wonderful report. Thank you, thank you so much Ambedkar and thank you for having me here. Why was this project actually taken? One was it was so plainly sort of you know observable when you walk into a university today that the demographic is really quite different from what the typical expectation is of a university student of you know who you're going to find in a university. Increasingly you're seeing and hearing also stories from the faculty as well of the challenges, the difficulties they were facing that in their classrooms there were students who were coming from rural backgrounds who are coming from first generation college backgrounds like you know nobody in their families that ever been to college sometimes nobody in their families that ever even you know completed schooling who had studied in the regional language. It was observable there was a real disconnect between the faculty who were teaching whose backgrounds were quite different for the most part from the students background and also how that how does one reach to these students how do you actually prepare these students academically really well and to be successful. Your framework is actually a new framework that is being used in an Indian setting. What is this campus climate framework can you actually explain to our audience? One of the things that I was seeing in the literature you know in terms of writings in the Indian context on the challenges and you know problems in higher education it was very much focused on certain kinds of single cases and individual cases like some a discrimination case or somebody you know the suicide case of course of Rohit Vemula that got you know national and international attention very rightly so but there was not a sense of sort of what is happening systemically what is happening across the institution on on multiple levels that there was a you know general environment of the university and that's what we call campus climate is constituted by so many different sort of everyday interactions the institutions rules and regulations for instance are they really attentive to and understanding what the needs of for instance rural students are who are studying on campus or someone who's you know non-English speaking student in you know are they are the institutional rules and regulations actually even aware that you know these students will have particular different needs and and that creates a different climate when the certain demographic is not being considered is not in the awareness of the institution the study has been the first comprehensive study to actually study the university space it involved around 2000 postgraduate students how challenging was the study and how long did it take yeah I mean what was for us very very helpful and what is so remarkable that we were able to do the study of this kind because I think doing an institutional study which has sort of the institutional support of the you know administration is something again very exceptional and unusual and we were able to get this through this partnership with the Savitri Vaipuleh Pune University and the then vice chancellor who really supported the study and my university and my chancellor professor Kumbh Lehso Bhaswamy they both sort of understood the importance of it and they really supported it without that kind of institutional support we would not have been able to go into every department and do a survey of all the different you know administer the survey to all the students and collect the data the study actually has used a unique theoretical framework called the campus climate framework I have not seen anybody use this framework in India can actually throw a background or what does this campus climate framework actually means and how can it be I mean operationalized yeah I realized that actually it's not a known term at all here campus climate but in the US actually in the higher education sector particularly there's a really very good body of scholarship that has developed and research studies that have developed that have really framed this concept of clamp campus climate so researchers in higher education have you know in from the 60s onwards actually started sort of looking in the US context saying that you know you we get African Americans and other minorities into the university so you you're getting inclusion or access you know for certain kind but then what what is it that sort of really is going to help them succeed that the university campus itself needs to kind of be orient its climate to be more inclusive towards these minority groups in in terms of the campus climate research we're looking at diversity as sort of a core concept of seeing that people come in with very different kinds of backgrounds and histories you know and and all of that has to be valued as part of a learning asset as a learning resource right so the so difference is to be valued a difference is to become the basis for interaction for dialogue for more understanding of each other and so it the university you know should and could actually use the differences among the students to bring them together to kind of actually learn much more about one another to become more senses you know sensitize you know each you know the different student groups to one another to become more empathetic about you know what you know the different backgrounds of students are and I think sometimes there's a certain kind of wariness and an almost anxiety when people would think about universities are becoming more diverse today and actually I think one really needs to and this is what campus climate framework really helps us do is to look at diversity really as an asset. Your study has also shown that about 60% of first-generation learners be through the women the tribals even from the forward cast there are about 44% have had their education in the local Marathi medium but in India higher education is taught in English can you give an example in the West for how students are taught English academic writing and all that yeah I think you know sometimes that's also sort of misconception about the US that it's all will be you know very fluent in English and they all come into the university kind of really knowing how to sort of do academic writing and that is not the case at all specifically if you think about sort of a State University where I teach University of Massachusetts there you know we have a lot of first-generation against students students coming from rural backgrounds and they do need support in English language sort of reading and writing and they need certain special kinds of also classes and you know tutorials etc to really catch up with and be you know doing as well you know as other students who might be coming from much more privileged backgrounds or from you know better quality schooling so schooling in in the US also is pretty uneven and then we also have Hispanic speaking or Asian American Chinese you know Japanese Americans who you know are not coming in with the same sort of English language skills so and I teach for instance at the postgraduate level in an international education program so I have I get students who are coming from Afghanistan from you know Russia from Bangladesh from you know from the light from Latin America from Egypt and they're also not coming in with you know the that those levels of academic writing and competencies for even for that postgraduate level there are particular sort of support centers and you know a help even there'll be the English department they will the university will make sure there's a staff who will help students you know I mean will review their student papers and will give them sort of editing help or help them through and yes it's a continuous process yes yes not like what happens in India no where you're taught remedial no no no yeah it's one is it's you know there's a separate sort of like you know set of courses that are created you can even take it for credit and a whole you know different sort of both undergraduate and postgraduate students might take that kind of sort of you know even different sort of the way they'll scaffold that kind of English reading and writing to more sort of basic to more advanced levels so students each semester might take for for credit along with their other courses and then you have this kind of writing center a writing support center so when you're writing a paper you want someone to look over it and I've seen how my own students have improved your study also showed that diversity is improving at the student level but at the faculty level it's still the uppercase male dominated yes I mean field so how do you how important do you think teachers play a role in having a enabling atmosphere in the classroom outside and to achieve what idols of our constitution says main diversity in unity but also having a liberty quality and fraternity and everybody is equal and how do we achieve those goals and how important is a teacher in that in the classroom so in in the US the research has shown that diversity among the faculty is critical to really so supporting a diverse student body that a diverse student body needs to also see a diverse faculty you know because and especially for minority students it becomes very important for them to so have role models right from the minority community you know represented among the faculty body they need to it also enables sort of establishing mentoring relationships so having establishing certain targets for diversifying the faculty for instance is a very key part of the institutional commitment in both at the University of Massachusetts where I am but also in other you know broadly across other universities you know they look at what is the composition of that department and they will say okay no we must have our next couple can hire must have you know be from a minority candidates having found what are the issues the students face what needs to be done your study actually calls for I mean I quote institutions to be more responsive to the needs of the students can that be achieved ma'am is there an example you can share from the university you teach or elsewhere because in India you see I mean at least where we studied there is always a tussle between the administration and the students even progressive university like Jabha Harlal Nehri University there is always a constant demand from the student to body to actually ask for remedial classes or even fellowships but how do you think the universities where you teach respond to the needs of the students whatever may be the need you know in in the US it's been a long process you know it has been a long struggle we have gotten to a place where the university is an institutional leadership is very responsive but we've gotten to that place after a period of sort of you know a lot of back and forth and they've been you know definitely moments of conflict in the US University when people think about the Berkley's in the 60s for instance but I think what the university you know leadership you know across the board you know not only just particular institutions but across the board in the US there's a recognition that unless one is responsive to the students you're not going to have campuses that are you know places of stability you know where learning can sort of really take place you know and that we can actually have you know students doing really well we can have faculty also succeed really well you know we can do you know very cutting-edge research you can't have this universe you know institution of excellence you can't sort of strive for that goal without you know being responsive to students you study especially recommends these things what a university should do so that the learning atmosphere changes there's more healthy atmosphere so how important is it for the universities to adopt the recommendations from this study I mean I to me I think this is this is critical that you know I it seems to me that right now both faculty university leadership students are trying to find a way forward to kind of say you know the university is a very very important site for the country as an emerging economy for you know for the leadership for faculty research and scholarship and quality teaching for students to be successful these are the recommendations I believe will really give us a very constructive path forward to get create a very positive the university is a positive environment as an inclusive environment as an environment in which different groups coming in with very different kinds of needs and challenges can thrive right and can actually interact and learn from one another we have to create that as the university of the future we are till now I mean in most studies also we had only studied what are the problems and everybody knows the problems because one or the other issue comes up in the mainstream media or elsewhere that what students are facing discrimination and all but the question was what is to be done and we have with us the study what needs to be done for our university to be healthy spaces where women the Dalits the marginalized can have an enabling atmosphere I hope our audience have a look at the study and also the policy makers take a note of it so that we don't have other Rohit Vemela issue or for that matter our education moves forward and achieves its goals of having a democratic society that is the goal of higher education as well thank you ma'am for talking to our audience thank you