 My name is Hajo Hansstra, and I'm working for the Dutch government. We are one of the co-organizers of this session. The landscape initiative for people food and nature, people's international rainforest alliance, and the IDAIDS program Sustainable Lands and Water. It's the ambition today to have a very interactive session. It means that, besides the panelists having discussion, we also try to involve you as an audience into our discussion. I will shortly start with setting a little bit of scene, followed by Lee Gross, who is going to tell you something about his assessment on business involvement in landscape approaches. In our work, we recognize a growing interest of companies in landscape approaches to size business opportunities and reduce risks. We also recognize that only a small group of champions is rarely involved up to now. Nevertheless, the opportunities are there. The challenge that we set for this afternoon is to map current linkages, identify gaps in knowledge, and most of all identify action for the way forward. Practitioners in companies need support to make business benefit from landscape approaches. I was working here, no? Yes. First of all, where I am coming from, this is the southwest delta in Europe, and here on the bottom, that is the Netherlands. As you see from this perspective, it is clearly that we live in a delta, which is quite a dynamic system. And that is also one of the main reasons that we already, for ages, have to cooperate in that dynamic system. There are all kinds of stakeholders to have our development in this area, and that is integrated land management in a very early stage. Now to Africa, the African Landscape Action Plan. Africa faces similar challenges in the facial perspective as we did in the Netherlands. It has achieved multiple goals for food and border security by diversity, conservation, and sustainable livelihoods, and also economic development. Africa has a tremendous potential. A potential to accelerate integrated landscape management across the continent and deliver solutions for people, business, and the environment. There are already many related initiatives. However, the strengthening and the scaling up of landscape approaches requires institutional innovation and promotion of strategic linkages between practices and policies. Entrepreneurs play a crucial role in these. Together with ECRAB, NAPAD, UNEP, the LPFN, and Eco-Economic Partners, we convened a conference last summer in July in Nairobi. The goal was to come with a strategy for widespread implementation of the approach. Nearly 200 conservation actors, farmers, leaders, policy makers, entrepreneurs from all over Africa jointly developed concrete action plans, as showed by this slide. Different teams were addressed. For example, governance, capacity development, but also the theme on business. The action plan is promising and is still growing. We are committed to work with African partners like Terrafica to stimulate governments and investors to implement the plan, but there's still a world to win. On the Netherlands side, he developed a program, a program on water and land management. It's oriented on the role of business in landscape. In six formable, acro-commodity-producing regions, this program leverages the interest of private sector to manage water and land resources sustainably. The program convenes coalitions of public and private stakeholders to collaborate and invest in sustainable land and water management. It's the economics. Investing in landscape by the business community is crucial to develop a landscape in a sustainable way. I hope in the coming hour that we could change ideas and experience, identify avenues and concrete solutions to give it the push forward. Practitioners and companies need support to make business benefits from landscape approaches. That's the start, and now I want to give the floor to Lee to give more substantial insights of the assessments. As Hayo mentioned, I'm with eco-agriculture partners. Eco-agriculture partners serves as the secretariat for an international coalition called the Landscapes for People, Food and Nature. Landscapes for People, Food and Nature is about scaling up the adoption of integrated landscape approaches globally. Through that, we're looking at promoting a dialogue, a learning and action around what it takes to scale up globally. One part of that action has actually been looking at the aspects of business engagement. Why should businesses be engaged? What do they have to benefit from engagement in such approaches? We have an active business engagement working group and have been meeting the past couple of years mostly as conservation and development practitioners to share our experiences, to document and to do some synthesis. Last year, we undertook a process where we looked globally at where businesses were engaging in landscape approaches, what were the motivations, the rationales and the value proposition for business. That reports reducing risk landscape approaches to sustainable sourcing. We've also done continental reviews looking at case studies like this one from SAB Miller. This is actually their factory right outside of Bogota where they took an integrated approach to watershed management working with WWF, GIZ and the city of Bogota. Out of that report, we started looking at what does it mean for business to be engaged in a landscape approach? How do we orient that? We said we proposed the following definition that identifying risks to business beyond the farm or facility scale and recognizing that long-term business success is tied to healthy communities and ecosystems. That's exactly what SAB Miller did when they started looking at the risk to their brewery and the impact of unsustainable practices in the upper watershed. Working with communities and government, they provided a solution to the risk and also created a lot of co-benefits for conservation and livelihoods. One of the other pieces of work of the Landscapes for People, Food and Nature is continental reviews. We're looking at integrated landscape initiatives on every continent. Thus far, we've looked at Asia, Africa and Latin America. One of the elements that we're looking at is business engagement. What we've seen thus far is that it's rather low. Here in Latin America, it was actually one of the highest in looking at a lot of the integrated watershed management. When we go to the continent of Africa, we see it's actually quite low. Why is business engaged? Is the value proposition not there? The business case not there? How can we stimulate private sector engagement? We've heard how fundamental we believe they are to creating sustainable long-term solutions in places where we have both agricultural, productive objectives, conservation and livelihoods. One of the other key findings of our report was looking at how companies are mitigating risk, how farmers are mitigating risk. We've seen globally over the past decade a wide adoption of sustainability standards as off-the-shelf a manner for companies to adopt sustainable practices within their supply chain to deal with key risks around yield, around livelihoods, boost farmer income. As a tool, it has its limitations in terms of looking at what are the key risks that are motivating all actors to use landscape approaches. It's really around looking at water, climate and community. For those, we need a combination of interventions using both farm-level interventions, supply chain interventions and landscape approach using multi-stakeholder action between public and private entities in places to tackle big problems. For example, this is a picture from the southwest mal forest of Kenya. There's quite a lot of tea grown here. Both Unilever and Finleys have major tea plantations here. What we see is essentially the mal forest. Over the years, they're starting to look at the impact of the loss of the forest on the micro-commit for tea production. Not only is this area important for tea production, but also for the economy of Kenya, of this district, and looking at how can we not only look at investing over the years, there's been quite a lot of investment in certification of tea plantations focused on farmer field schools and training, but how do we deal with the wider risk that the southwest mal forest is going away and there's nothing, apparently, that we can do about it? We need government. We need those outside of the watershed. We need collaborative action. So why would companies want to invest? It's because it's in their own interest. Again, on the incentives, we've looked at not only the risks associated with addressing at landscape scale, but also looking at the opportunities. We talked earlier hearing about we have a carrot crisis. So we're looking at what are the incentives in terms of incentivizing different actors, public-private partnerships in places to deal with both, deal with risk, but also create a number of opportunity, both in terms of resource mobilization, legal compliance, market opportunities, and cost-saving, ultimately leveraging both public and private finance and activity in places to deal with risk like water, climate, community in a more effective and integrated manner. Landscape approaches offer a platform, a way to operationalize some of this work and to have negotiation and to deal with issues like the southwest mal, where you deal with deforestation and water scarcity. Hajo mentioned an important new program that the Dutch government is starting up, and actually if you could just recognize Omer van Rintegren, yeah, Omer and Nika Stam. So we have, from IDH, supported by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Netherlands, and executed by the Dutch Sustainable Trade Initiative. We have a new program that convenes coalitions of public and private stakeholders to jointly formulate and invest in sustainable land and water management in six places. So they're playing vital resources in terms of helping to mobilize both the private sector but also public entities to address critical risk and tropical sourcing regions in six places around the world. And I think it's programs like this that will help us understand more about what are the motivations for all actors and how can more integrated landscape approaches help both solve key risks to these areas but also promote food production, conservation, and livelihood objectives in the future. Thank you. Okay, half my president. Thank you. Thank you, Lee, for your presentation. And I want to ask the panelists to come to the podium. Ladies first. My first one is Magda Lobez. He's a practice manager of environmental resources in this African region with the World Bank. Edith Kiss, director of business development with Altelia, an investment fund for sustainable land use. Edward Miller, director of strategic partnerships with Rainforest Alliance. Juan Pablo Solis, program officer at EVOS International and NGO working in landscape for social economic perspective. And Carlos Zapata, manager and head of strategy and planning for the Uptinto Hero. Welcome, two-year-old. I first go on to explain a little bit the format, what we are going to do here and then we will start with our panelists. We have asked each panelist to prepare a short pitch with one slide on the questions. We have three questions. The first question is related to the rationale, the business case. The second question is related to cooperation and the last one is on finance. The panelists will have a short pitch and then the other panelists they could react or have questions for the other panelists. There's also the possibility for the audience to have questions towards the panel. And so we go each questions. We are going to do each questions. I have two colleagues in the room with microphones. So if you have really a very important question that's Cora over there and that's Andrej over there. If you have a very important question please hint to them and they will give you the mic so that you can intervene. Finally, we will close off with a general wrap-up and hopefully suggestions how to proceed. And for the wrap-up, I'm going to ask the panelists to come with one sentence so that you can think about during the discussion a little bit out of one of the most important sessions you have during the discussion or before. Then I want to ask Edward to start with answering the first question, the rationale or business case for companies for a landscape approach. Which key business risks and opportunities can be achieved in a landscape that cannot be achieved through a supply chain? So, we saw in the introduction there and heard about the business risks and opportunities. And this is the usual language with which we engage with business. And in Rainforest Alliance we have worked always right across the supply chain. We need to think of the farmers as well. Business people who evaluate the risks and opportunities and whose risks and opportunities are changing as climate change becomes a more important issue so that to the traditional types of risk you now have to be adding things like extreme weather conditions and unexpected changes in rainfall patterns and harvest seasons etc. So it's a very volatile climate in which to be evaluating risks but at the same time new opportunities in this country for example Amazon products which are coming to the market such as our Ache and Gurawi are showing opportunities to support one of the climate change adaptation strategies which is diversification of farming systems with a new market dynamic of interested consumers and companies putting in the capacity to process new products to come to market. So we do see this business dynamic as things change and I think we should remain optimistic. The general truth though is that most of the initiatives which are being taken at the moment are still more in the vertical supply chain than in the more horizontal landscape approach and we've seen as businesses at the market end really step up to sustainability we've seen some really significant investments and changes in business behavior to reflect this requirement to take more management control of risk and to open up more opportunities whereas 20 years ago large brand companies were tending to move away from their supply chains and concentrate on marketing and branding now they've realized that they've got to get right back close to their supply chains in order to manage sustainability so suddenly we see representatives of brand companies present in major producing countries we see investments particularly by supply chain companies between farmers and markets we see investments in technical teams you know actually a whole units of companies that weren't present there before and just the very back of the envelope some in rainforest alliance where obviously we have a certification system and we've got now 1.3 million farmers being brought most of these are trained by company technicians and other technicians and if an average of $100 a farmer goes into training a farmer in sustainability now that's a hundred million dollars of leveraged investment that just the supply chain company in just our system and this is one of many I mean companies are developing their own sustainability systems there are other certification schemes etc so this whole up swelling of investment but mostly traditionally in the supply chain where are the signs of new awareness well they're coming as Lee said in his introduction from seeing the need to think outside the vertical supply chain and into some of the dynamics because for example if you have stagnant communities if you have the social unrest this is going to affect the workforce in amount tea plantation for example you know people are not going to be available to work and may be affected by health issues you see that risks come from wider issues of things like the popular concept moment deforestation but wildlife protection too companies reputation risks from seeing wildlife destruction in their supply chains are really heavy just think of the campaigns against that have been going on in palm oil against Indonesian orangutans and other examples so companies have really got to be aware of how to manage the whole spectrum of risk in the supply chain so we're seeing the start of new landscape initiatives just a few examples water footprint analysis a lot of companies are doing this they're starting to see right across there with the focus on well will we have a secure water supply for our supply chain an initiative in the tea industry called T2030 has started up which has a whole component of sustainable landscapes precisely for issues like the Mount Forrest where it's recognized that just having a sustainable farm or plantation isn't enough because it's not going to secure the ecosystem around it which affects soil which affects water supply and therefore the capacity of that tea farm to generate coffee industry has started up a coffee and climate initiative similar objective so industry is not just individually managing but industries coming together to start to take a little bit more control many companies investing community development schemes one or two companies have taken some really interesting initiatives like British American tobaccos biodiversity risk and opportunity assessment I mean when have companies before felt like responsible for biodiversity and these kinds of things give us a great deal of optimism and interestingly for Rainforest Alliance open up another new opportunity for us because although we tend to be known mostly for our application scheme what the space that we're in now at the moment is the new opportunity to help companies that are making very large landscape scale commitments actually to be able to implement because and I think if you ask me for one word that I've taken away from the landscape form so far to date it's three letter word how you know everybody knows what but the how is really the trick now and so organizations who have the capacity work with small holders who have the relationships in the community with the district governments with the national governments and they're able to at the same time speak business language I think is a whole new a set of opportunities for organizations like Rainforest coming up I wanted to just mention one example it's gone up on the floor I'll finish with this just to put the points into a context this is clearly from what we can see there what we are thinking in terms of a business collaboration to landscape scale because of its multifaceted nature now this is an example of initiative which we've been implementing with Olam which is a major commodity trailer and seven different commodities around the world present at Peru as well this was in the cocoa sector and the approach to this was to try to use the opportunity of new markets in carbon and to bring in a commodity plus carbon plus social and environmental value approach and I just think to illustrate this infographic just has the key components there so we have the sustainable land use practices for climate change mitigation adaptation soil conservation water harvesting reduction of agrochemicals mulching etc the suite of good practice but at the same time investing in institution building so we have at the top there the evolution in the community-based group of farmers coming together to form the climate cooperative union and at the same time a multi-stakeholder with strong involvement in the community's land management board to take an overall land management plan and see how to manage the area as a whole then combined with that sustainable cocoa farming a climate verification system and methodology to work at a small scale to measure the carbon captured in cocoa farms and also in the wider landscape so there was a lot of tree planting 100,000 trees planted to nurseries formed and managed by the communities and then together with the engagement with the government both at the Ghana cocoa board level and also at the district level national level we've seen this project now integrated in the Ghana red strategy and also an environmental education program working with teachers and with young children to build awareness of the climate the importance of climate environment management it starts to give you just a sort of snapshot idea of what this means now why was this involved in this because it saw the opportunity of a new market market leadership in looking beyond the commodity and at the same time securing supply of cocoa from the important cocoa growing region in Ghana so it can be done thank you very much I think it gives some good example of business cases and of opportunities change in climate but also change in how business works I only heard one question on the how I think that was the only question you had in your short presentation are there any comments from the other panelists or additions no any questions from the audience nobody quite good business case put on the floor then we go to the second question and that's more on I think also your question on the how and how it's on cooperation and I want to ask Juan Paolo Solis to come with your pitch on this thank you let me start sharing an idea sharing some insights that we have to talk with companies we in June of this year we organized a coffee conference in Amsterdam named to talk about climate change ecosystem degradation biodiversity loss in the coffee chain I had a meeting with former worker for Kiran Green Mountain one of the biggest coffee buyers in the United States and he told me something that I want to quote I thought that the premium of certified coffees were enough to maintain a quality of life of small scale farmers but that that is not true certified coffees are helping there's no doubt about that but the fact is the only buying buying coffee strategy is not enough to cover farmers needs this is a really potent phrase if you frame it because in our analysis working with value change we we start working in the value change approach trying to stimulate access for the many pure but the fact is that the value change approach only is insufficient to cover the variety of problems in the landscape and the communities where they are growing coffee or cocoa or sugarcane etc. we have seen that the value change doesn't really give an answer to problems like ecosystem degradation or biodiversity or climate change but the major problem of the value change maybe is to put the crop in the core and not the people and we will the age of evils is because of the humanist we work together with front runners in different landscape different arenas connecting front runners among the processes of change and we work on theory of change try to solve or try to innovate different solutions to achieve the same goals the same dreams in Latin America we have been with different coffee cooperatives from Guatemala to Bolivia and they all share the same dream working more private and dynamic local economies and these local private economies work depend a lot on their people their stability of income but also their capacity of cope, climate change diversity, their resilience in evils we work in social innovation and what is social innovation at the end is promote social innovation is about citizen agency and agency some people say well I don't get the terminology the agency is very much similar to resilience is this capacity of people to react and change in a changing environment at the end social innovation is facing daily problems is trying to solve daily problems with a new mind a new insight and we think that putting citizen agency at the core of political arena will increase the outreach of the problems in the landscapes from Kenya to Peru we have learned that people agency can speed processes of change and fortunately we are seeing a lot of new thinking around as my colleague was mentioned we are seeing new ideas new concepts, new alternatives spreading across citizens are taking responsibility of directions in their landscapes but also communities are producing their own energy, their own food there is a lot of progressive companies that are taking serious commitment with climate change and to address the ecosystem degradation and we are seeing also SMEs, medium enterprises that are innovating their approaches the way they produce the way they distribute food or energy etc and also governments that are enabling the arena for allow these innovations to grow but of course this has to be framed and it has to be framed according to the common understanding of players for instance we very much stimulate companies to work with us in our landscapes approaches in relation to guidelines principles about human rights issues about how people can be part of the solution not just the beneficiaries like we always say in the coffee sector we have potent experiences on that we are with a communist Africa to address scale on the way they address their own providers of coffee and well this has lead to major transparency in the chain but also more women participation more productivity based on compost fertilizers like bio digesters and all these changes of innovation has to be lied on scale and in order to get to scale we need to partner with private companies we require the private sector to reach scale in two ways on the one hand we need them to lead the process and in a win-win situation but also we require innovation in terms of who is going to finance that we have companies but also together with the local government of San Martín and the producers they are producing coffee and cocoa alright thank you Van people as part of the solution that's what I remember very clearly what are the main obstacles in getting it organized the main well you have to build this win-win situation and you have to all share the same dream they all have to pursue the same ambitions that's maybe the main issues sometimes you want to partner with someone but this other has not the same values or the same views that you have then things don't get to start so you have to get people around the table and share the same dream and gather into a process where you really see what the interest of the other is are there any additions to what are questions questions from the audience you're very silent no questions at all oh there's a question, Kora please hi my name is Nadine Planzer from Fair Climate Program ECO excuse my voice, it's the air conditioning I think from yesterday I have a question for Heavals with your projects, why aren't you partnering right away with companies so because you mentioned I think the university and the municipality but why aren't you bringing the private sector on board right away to finance or purchase credits or products well actually we do last week let me share, last week we had a large meeting with companies like ECO, Monterly I will have a meeting tomorrow with Perusa so we are bringing all these private companies, private players into the table to discuss what can be their relation and their engage in these processes are you satisfied? thank you for questions otherwise we go to the next speaker and that is Mr. Zapata he's also going to introduce the answer to your cooperation as well all right, thank you Heavals thanks first for the invitation it's really a pleasure to share this time with you all first of all I'm Peruvian so welcome to Peru and bienvenidos al Perú I'm quite sure that some of you have tried a Chicano drink with Pisco the ones that have not tried tonight I'm quite sure that you'll have a great time then so back to business and the question you have posed it's important to acknowledge that Rio Tinto is the global mining company we're talking about 60,000 colleagues working in different countries, different communities not talking only America or Australia also quite importantly Africa South America and Asia of course so we supply for a lot of industries going from construction to transportation to renewable energy and one important thing I've heard several times in the different plenaries and the different breakout sessions it's a sort of balance on policy technical business case sense and implementation and from our side from the private sector that's an important balance also to get it's part of our challenges parts of our business case so that's something that resonates a lot to us and of course the landscape approach is part of that solution we're looking at early on in that thinking to make it really sustainable and in a business case sense so we also link that approach with our commitments regarding human rights biodiversity and transparency and we always remember an event that happened in the morning on 18th of July in operation in Lassing where 10 of our colleagues disease and that's something that we always remember and that has been a really important moment on how we think about business after that event of course we were defined on how we health, safety, environment and communities are together and as a global practice they are across all our operations it doesn't matter if it's a project or it's a construction or an operation or a closure it's embedded in our everything we do so talking on those projects we try to apply it either a project in Guinea where we partner with or in a project in Peru and I will talk a bit on that one or a construction as we have in Mongolia or an operation running in Madagascar so going back to the question on partnership we have a project in Peru called La Granja it's in the northern part it's a couple project we still are in and we have been in this process for eight years a really, really long journey regularly in countries as Peru water it's the main source of social environmental conflict and after eight years we have not non-conflict so far and instead of being a problem for us has been an opportunity to really build trust with the communities that are we are neighbors and how we have been doing first on participatory monitoring a three-step approach first participatory monitoring now after those years we have 14 committees participatory monitoring approach is implemented and funded we work with NGOs the government and them so that's something they are quite embedded in this now has moved to the next step where they are looking to tree planting nursery in the different communities and it's up to them how they do it and the speed they implement it but it's part of how they think about how formalization works and that's key for countries as Peru with this kind of environment we have gone with them through a formalization process with the national water authority us and them have gone through this process and afterwards we have like 24 of those committees already water usages formalized and that's quite important how they really understand with us that the land use and the water usage is a multi-stakeholder approach challenge but also solution and finally we have moved to the third level of infrastructure first we participatory monitor second there are formal the third logic element is how we leverage resources together to build infrastructure and in that sense we have been working with 1,000 community members to try to leverage resources of the national government a ministry minister Benitez from agriculture mentioned yesterday in the plenary about this fund for water infrastructure in Peru and we have partnered with the government obviously us regarding the filing and the experience and with all that together we are funding and trying to fund several millions of solids that will be implemented through the next years that last element is linked to integral water management approach we have worked with the national authority and I see a colleague there that was working before in the national authority a Dutch colleague we were working together on that great challenge with communities so at the end of day it has been a journey of 8 years that has been evolving and that's our approximation on how we do it together and our opportunity can bring it earlier in the next stages because what we will do is continue evaluating different foot prints how we implement that landscape approach before going through those areas and trying to learn from what we have been doing in the previous months so at the end of the day it's up to that combination to try to go further in this triangle business sense, how it's political adequate and how we implement it very interesting I think a very nice example of how business involves in landscape approaches one question for you is that you're working as a mining company do you also have sort of network with other businesses in dealing and telling your experience or with others is there a network for companies to discuss this kind of yeah of course actually this economic corridor where we approach in some of the projects have a lot of infrastructure related and how all those pieces fit together depends on how many players we can get together in the same boat other privates that are focused on infrastructure or other privates that are focused in other economic activities regarding the economic corridor forestry, agriculture cattle it's part of it so it's a difficult challenge and as Juan Pablo was mentioning it's something that evolves through time and it's something that will continue to be evolving but depends on how early every member of that table is together and put the options there to find the proper solution any additional comments on this presentation any questions by the audience hello I had a question on the presentation of Li you presented and that's actually a question for all of you panelists you presented on the incentives for business to engage into landscape approach market opportunities securing supply, diminishing risk what's your analysis on regarding these needs which needs where is it that there are many actors to help companies address these needs and where are the huge gaps which ones are actually the most difficult for companies to cope or address and hence who are the best actors, is it NGOs governments, who are the best actors to address those needs yeah sure I can respond to that I think what we're seeing now in terms of the initial analysis of cases out there is that avoided cost really drives the business case a complete water failure for a brewery the kind of from a business rationale the entry point seems to be from there, I think it's also positive to focus on the opportunity piece and I think that's something where we need to actually test and understand more what are the opportunities in terms of resource mobilization of cost effectiveness working with partners in places and then of course how do we mix the right market mechanisms to support a process whether it's certification or as Edward mentioned being a front runner a company enabling themselves to set themselves apart and then you know going off of Carlos's comment I think we certainly have a lot to learn in terms of the long term engagement that these are not short processes that it takes time to build trust to set up these kinds of platforms for decision making in places among communities among business among government so there's really I think a lot we can learn at least based on what we're seeing from the initial cases which really looked at the food and beverage sector and agro business thank you, thank you, Lee any additions or yeah maybe just to reframe the concept of incentives instead of incentives I think it's the green win situation that we have to build of course a company can engage when they see a profit or they see a benefit but they also have to recognize that it is important to invest in issues like ecosystem validation why because and I will reframe also to the coffee conference if we don't do something now maybe 2020, 2025 there will be no coffee and without coffee they don't will have a business so we are seeing that currently in the cocoa also so it is part of this win-win situation but also recognizing the co-responsibility of companies that are working in communities thank you another question hello my name is Gabby Kissinger and I was involved in that reducing risk report and I guess it's really a question for the Rio Tinto speaker because I think that you're a real leader in the mining field and yet can share so much that I think relates to other business context in which business are really trying to figure out what the business case is to invest and so I guess one question for you is really how what is the role of public support and sort of government support I mean you did mention one case in the Peruvian framework but I guess in a more general way thinking about the different context in which you work either public finance or enabling conditions or laws what are the different modes through which government support and government enabling incentives can help promote what you're trying to achieve thank you Gabby thanks for your question it's an important question for us and my approximation on that one would be first it's a sort of risk-reward balance and how we link that with timing because as I said I mentioned we're in a really high volatile market and that's absolutely linked on how investors see our decisions under long-term shareholder value but from the other side we have these national complexities already mentioned and I'm not talking about only national as you were saying we can go regional and local and that starts getting complex and complex and complex being said that we have been really engaged with the different levels and we have found that some sort of bottom-up approach it's a good complement to what other companies have been doing not only trying to go with the ministries to try to find what is the proper combination for the solutions but try to build that from communities and with that with the regions that at certain point are not necessarily consistent or in the same page and what we have find with that is that when we start tackling the problem from bottom-up it's easier to really make a sort of coherency among those different layers of course government's barriers and that's logic also because behind it is leadership nevertheless it's important for us to keep always our standards and our same sort of approach our same standards that will allow it doesn't matter where we do business we have the proper standards to really partner adequately and smartly with the different stakeholders so yeah it's still important challenge but again timing and how timing of the business of the government and the different stakeholders get together it's part of the solution to be flexible enough in that process thank you you have one more question let me go to the next panelist Julio Caña Forestry Consultant here in Peru the landscapes most of the landscapes we have mainly in the Sierra Interandina have been stripped of a component of that landscape which is the part of the forests that has brought the water scarcity and the and the possibility to manage the hydric balance of the entire basin if now the Peru is trying to to put the program at my risk and has a joint alliance and mine and mine would be a good program because almost 13 million hectares are in the Interandina and there are more than 500 miners who are intervening in this area but how do they think about the main landscape that has been removed which are the forests would be interesting that the entire river infrastructure of cement what the trees did the hydric balance would also be protected by the reforestation of all the heads of the basin how are they thinking about that or are we still waiting for more years to put this component and replace the landscape and give sustainability to all the activities of the basin Thank you for the question Thank you Julio for your question Maybe for those who don't wear a headset if you could summarize the questions for those who couldn't follow it in Spanish would be nice They will translate If you can summarize the question you will respond to Julio's question was regarding the Mireo infrastructure program we were mentioning and he was making the point quite important on how to balance with forestry management and infrastructure will be quite balanced Thanks Julio for your question I couldn't answer regarding all mining companies I could only answer regarding our example and with that as I mentioned we need to find that balance and we have been doing that with the communities pre-planting nursery process is something they have lead and they have been engaged with that they are telling us that they also want the balance of course that water infrastructure is required it's part of their livelihoods on how they would like to progress but from the other side they understand that the forest management is something that is quite important for them and we are also engaged with them in that front so answering your question I think it's a quite challenging balance but from our side is something we have a part to play there Thank you Carlos I want to go to the next panelist who was already here a long time waiting for telling something Thank you very much Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen so my question was about the business case and how to finance the business case so to answer that I will share with you Altilia's business model and also give you an example and hopefully we will bring in a little bit different perspective to the discussion so Altilia is an impact investment fund that was set up as a public-private partnership dedicated to forest conservation biodiversity conservation sustainable land use and economic development in emerging countries and has been developed in a cooperation with leading NGO Conservation International the fund is a for profit investment vehicle so we are targeting to achieve market returns while delivering strong and measured social and environmental impacts so we are operating along the triple bottom line principles and we do that we aim to do that by leveraging on the one hand on growing demand for sustainable certified commodities such as coffee, cocoa, palm oil, you name it and on the other hand on emerging markets for payment for ecosystem services carbon, biodiversity or water the fund is an eight-year close-ended vehicle so our operation is up to 2020 in this interim very critical period of time our current investors as you can see on the slide include large institutional investors from both the public and the private side and the public European investment bank the Dutch Development Bank Church of Sweden on the private side we have large financial institutions AXA Investment Management for example or the Packard Foundation we started our operations in June 2013 60 million euro under asset management and we're looking to close the fund next week and hope to double the size and that will enable us to finance a diversified portfolio of around 15-20 projects across Africa, Latin America and Asia so Altilia aims to achieve the market return and a strong impact by unlocking multiple value streams so our business model is really about multiple revenue streams and there is a little graph on the right hand side which tries to illustrate that so basically we are focusing an investment that can reduce deforestation thanks to implementing commercially viable agroecological activities at the frontier of the deforestation by reducing the deforestation our investment can generate strong positive environmental impacts on climate change and by a diversity which we hope to be able to monetize and on the other hand by financing the agroecological activities that can produce the certified commodities we are generating revenues for our investors and also improving significantly the livelihoods of smallholder farmers and we do this through profit participating loan that we provide to our local partners that are collateralized by carbon credits and that go towards both the conservation activities and the sustainable production activities and on the other hand we will also get our return back from both revenue streams so to give an example how this can work in practice we have financed two projects in Peru the first one in Stambapata Red Plus project where together with our local partner IDAR which is a local development NGO we are protecting two national parks Stambapata National Reserve and Bahua Sonene National Parks that are under threat due to migratory slush and burn agriculture so smallholder agriculture activities and on the other hand illegal gold mining and so in order to reduce the pressure on the forests we intend to develop 400,000 hectares of cocoa agroforestry systems in the buffer zone so the project as a result of that will achieve the protection of more than half a million hectares of pristine forests which will result also in half a million tons of CO2 per year of savings which will be not emitted to the climate and on the other hand we'll restore 4,000 hectares of degraded land which will have the farmers with adaptation, food security generation and it will also result in approximately 3,600 metric tons of cocoa, fine and aromatic flavor, high quality cocoa production that will generate income for the farmers we estimate that by the year 5 it will double the income of the farmers so to illustrate that basically we believe that you need a holistic model to be successful if we were only to do the agroforestry activity the productive activity in the buffer zone we might not be successful because we have the illegal gold mining on the other hand coming to the park so we very much need the protection the control and surveillance activity the patrolling we're going to employ 10 new patrolls create two new control posts within the park on the other hand if you were only to protect the forest and put the price on carbon we need to fight also with that drivers of deforestation so we really believe that the two together needs to go hand in hand and as a matter of fact it works quite well because carbon can generate revenues quite soon as soon as you have a validated verified project document you can generate carbon credits however productive activity takes years at least 4 or 5 years before you will see any revenues so carbon finance is a very interesting tool to catalyze transition and the two together again after year 6-7 we believe that this project will be self-sustainable and hopefully over time it will be much less dependent on carbon credits and of course we're talking about landscapes and we also believe that this model is scalable our second investment is in the Cordillier Azul national park which is a little bit northern to the country and it's actually a national park that stretches across 4 provinces and includes 1.3 million hectares of pristine forest almost three times as much as our first project and we're talking there about 2.5 million hectares of buffer zone and 180,000 people in the communities living there whereby we believe we can replicate this model so it's an innovative model we are pioneering and hope to have the business case demonstrating for our investors if I have time to continue I think you want something to tell about managing risk or not? Exactly to elaborate how we do that because it's obviously not easy it's very complicated bringing together two different communities and two different activities so I wanted to say a couple of words on how we manage the risk to be successful and the main message is there the public-private partnership it's really key it's really the key success factor as you see our institutional background is based on public-private partnership principles but we go beyond that and we really try to apply this principle on all levels of our operations starting with the upstream and the project level Altilia is co-financing its investments because we believe that otherwise it would be too risky so to risk your investment you really can work together with some donor funding for example in the Coordia Azure has benefited significantly from USAID funding and it really is important because it helps to risk our investment but also maximizes our impact as a fund with a limited amount we try to maximize our impact so good in as many projects as possible on the second level it comes to the portfolio and on the fund level we have entered into groundbreaking partnership with USAID and that provides us with a guarantee for the fund underwriting 50% of the performance of the fund which is a very notice structure and helped us to bring in significant private sector investors for our second cause so that's also a risk mitigation tool it will not help us to generate the return for our investors but it helps for the downside protection and last but not least the third element is on the downstream and asset monetization and that's also where we think it's very important to work together hand in hand with public and private you can't seriously expect the private sector to pay for everything and also the donor communities will not have enough funding to solve this problem so we need to work together to give you an example on this we have entered into a partnership with a Dutch platform biodiversity ecosystems and economy which is an initiative by the Dutch Ministry of Economic Affairs and Employers Federation and they have borrowed together four companies from the Netherlands and together contributing to our project in Tambopata through purchasing carbon credits and it's a very innovative also structure which we're looking forward to scaling up so that was on the first point public private partnership again I cannot emphasize that enough on the second point I would mention for managing risk is multiple revenue streams again we really see this as a diversification tool in Tambopata the farmers have never planted in their lives any so you could not seriously expect a company to come in and finance it they would probably think it's too risky on the other hand the carbon markets we know it's challenging so on its own it would be also too risky for investors so we believe that the two together gives enough comfort and as a matter of fact it gives enough comfort to us and to our investors then of course you have some other tools like pricing structures we use a flexible pricing mechanism a floor price with an upside sharing which works very well with the communities we guarantee through the loan the livelihoods for the communities that they be as good off as before and then if everything goes well and there is a carbon price which is high enough then they will benefit from the additional upside but it gives them a security and a no regret option to change their livelihood so that works also very well and last but not least our main tool I would say for managing risk is our environmental social and governance policy and framework which we have developed together with European investment bank and FMO and which we really use as our main risk mitigation strategy it requires all our projects to adhere to the highest available standards such as the VCS, CCBS IFC performance standards and also includes a detailed benefit sharing guidance and that will bring me to the next maybe theme is a challenges so we use these tools but of course there are challenges and I would just say let's go ahead and leave it up to the discussion afterwards so in terms of challenges of landscape approach and also our model I wanted to mention three things first is benefit sharing it's absolutely critical that you get that right and it's about the win-win situation if in a landscape you will have a lot of actors you will have winners and losers and if you don't put the incentives right and you don't get the community buying you cannot and that should be at the heart of any landscape level program the second is maybe a bit technical in terms of what I explained how we operate in Red Plus at the current at the moment with the current methodologies Red Plus requires spatial explicit approach meaning that you have to be able to identify if you do a sustainable activity which forest exactly is going to protect so you can only do together a project like that and we believe that to go to the next level to the landscape it's not going to be possible always so there is a need for new standards and I believe that VCS is already working on a landscape level approach maybe we can hear about that later but we definitely need some more input from the standards and some more work on that and last but not least the most critical point I wanted to mention is that we really need to have more collaboration between the supply chain actors and the Red community to date unfortunately that hasn't happened and we really believe that we have seen the proliferation of the commitments for zero deforestation communities which is absolutely great but unfortunately it will not automatically result in protecting the forests we need to combine the two together together with Red to achieve this goal and also we have seen that even within the supply chain actors in so many landscapes there is a silo and companies are doing their own programs and not cooperating so we need much more cross-sectoral collaboration so the problem is when you try to look at why is it not happening is that obviously the two communities are looking what's in it for me the Red community would like to see the premiums paid for the certified for the value of carbon and forests and the sustainable supply chain industry would like to see the carbon supporting their investments until this is not happening they don't cooperate and that's been in the past but we really believe that there is a reason to cooperate and there are many synergies in that we heard that obviously Red Plus through the national policies will help to enable and will relate to an enabling environment to help to de-risk a lot of investment for supply chain companies but more importantly there is also a lot of synergies which can lead to cost efficiency Red Plus has a institutional framework it has been working out all the questions around consultations it has a robust accounting and monitoring framework so it makes absolute sense to combine the two and we really believe that there should be some more cooperation and innovation between these two sectors to have a common voice also towards the governments because there is a lot of money available for Red Plus and as an industry together could also tap more easily into that donor funding so I would just leave it there that I believe that Red Plus and the carbon element are actually a great tool to develop some new innovative products bundled products whether it's a bundled product with social license to operate with net biodiversity impact with zero de-frustration commodity it's all there and we just need to work on that thank you Thank you Edit and thank you for all the good examples you gave and also especially that there are no single solution that you have to really link these things together as a part of the whole holistic approach what I'm going to ask is to Marga to just add now a little bit on this question and giving the enabling environment and then we will have a round of questions in this question Thank you very much I think I'm maybe the odd person here in this panel because I'm not coming from the private sector and I can't give you the private sector perspective I'm at the World Bank and we are largely dealing with government and public sector but I think it's very important for both of us to actually look at sort of what the others are up to and what are the interests and the opportunities to actually work together so as I see it from the private sector side and I think this has been also confirmed by many of the other panelists the private sector is already operating in the environment in the landscape I mean, especially some of the natural resource based companies are part of their landscape they are altering their landscapes they are sourcing from the landscape they use labor from the local economy but at the same time precisely they are altering it they are also discharging to it they are emitting to it so there is a certain positive negative kind of relationship of the company's enterprises with their landscapes and their environment I think even maybe companies which are not so obviously part of the landscape through the supply chain and their linkages and so increased globalization they are part of the landscape so the private sector it seems to me it's extremely interested in at least three big elements one is the risk management the other is the supply management and the third is the reputational management and all of them we can understand quite well I mean I think if I many comments here were made about companies like companies or agribusinesses or ecotourism businesses they are primarily reliant on their ecosystem and their landscape to function well I was recently in Tanzania where we talked to about wildlife coaching I mean there are tourism companies there which their livelihood depends on what is happening in that space of their landscape so basically no wildlife, no tourism no business and I think similarly if you are a beverage bottling company and your water comes from upstream and suddenly your upstream gets reforested and silted and the water is no longer available this is not there anymore so I think there is a certain very obvious business interest in managing landscape white or engaging in this area and also I think from the improving corporate social responsibility perspective since there is a market out there that is environmentally conscious and actually sometimes willing to pay a premium for the certified products and the certified companies I think again this is a big business opportunity so if you look at it from the flip side of the public sector I mean I think it is very clear that this has to be encouraged and the public sector can only gain if this kind of positive energy of the private sector gets leveraged so the public sector needs to find ways of facilitating this kind of public sector initiatives and I think there are three broad areas I would cite in which the public sector can do that one is related to this whole regulatory institutional frameworks issue the second is more about capacity building knowledge support type things and the third is the financing now on the first one and I must say that the world bank is involved in all three areas pretty much in supporting countries to actually improve in these areas so on the first the policy regulatory framework I think one of the big issues is the right of property rights and just clarity of whose role is what in a landscape yesterday we had a panel where the land grab came out to which some of the answers were as well actually I mean if you don't have the regulations right and your governance is not right those things can happen so getting that very important and I think from a private sector perspective the clarity and the certainty is very important in an investment from that perspective as well but also regulations environmental regulations I mean if you're talking about the mining company how the government regulates your discharges how it regulates what you can do how you rehabilitate your mine after you leave and all those things also monitors and enforces it extremely important but perhaps more on the sort of more not so much bank I mean public policy but also enabling frameworks we talked about payments for environmental services I think governments actually can create frameworks for that because if your private sector comes and tries to you know reach one farmer individually may work but may not if the government comes in to facilitate such processes I think that that can work better the World Bank in this region several countries starting from Costa Rica, Mexico, Brazil many others helped a lot of these payment for environmental services schemes to be set up this also involves quite a bit of research assess the economic benefits of the environmental externality that needs to be financed and paid for but I think the red and the whole carbon market business is also one where governments and not just national but obviously the international policy framework can also do a lot as you mentioned there are things that can be done faster than can be done more easily I mean the CDM framework was already there but it was a bit transaction heavy so these are things that governments and the public sector can do to facilitate more to make it easier for the private sector we also have been working on offset type mechanisms quite a lot and again you know it can be done by the private sector deal by deal but it is much easier if it's done by a more systematic systematic manner on the capacity building and knowledge side I think the public sector role is very important we have small scale farmers who need to know about what it means to have conservation agriculture techniques extension services are very important we were recently in Ethiopia talking to some farmers who were supported by the sustainable land management project and ladies were managing this beekeeping enterprise and there they showed the honey and they said well what are you going to do and they said we export it well you know it's a nice ambition but somebody needs to provide capacity building for them to know what it means to go to the market let alone the export market so you know there are many things on the capacity building side and finally the financing I mean this is the big question everybody talks about infrastructure is probably most obvious where the public sector comes in and finances things and those are fairly straightforward in most cases electricity roads water infrastructure very important for businesses to come in in I mean not just landscape level but generally but financing landscape integrated landscape management is still quite a new thing and I think from the World Bank's experience at least it's quite important to bring in some public money at the beginning at least eventually we expect the public sector and the government's own public expenditures to catch up but at least the beginning especially because it's pro sectoral to bring in the different sectors into one program this is something that the public sector financing and especially international financing can facilitate at least at the beginning so my sort of headline messages I think the public sector and the private sector they both have rather different strength and weaknesses they need to know what each other is up to and where they are coming from and I think together they can really make this integrated landscape management happen thank you Magda for this perspective I think it's a little bit in line what the public partnership a little bit on a time constraint but I think there's still room for a few questions but any questions from your side? Thanks Nienke Stan working with IDH on the sustainable land and water management program I had a question about public private partnerships and the collaboration being very important but then if you look at realities in for example a landscape in Ethiopia or in Vietnam what resources are being over exploited groundwater levels are lowering companies are feeling that but of course there are many companies in a landscape and then who's going to take a first move so I think bringing in the business as they have incentives and that they see how it works but it doesn't happen automatically like we already noticed so I think maybe could you give a bit of insight in how you can trigger businesses to start this type of collaboration and do you think that a third party is required as a convener between government and the private sector to play that role I think obviously it's not happening automatically and I think that's why it's very important to start with the good examples and then see how you can spread them I don't know if you saw this movie that we showed on the Ethiopia sustainable land management and the re-bleaning experience I think in that experience there is quite a lot of public sector involvement we also have a parallel program that looks at the agribusiness side of the equation I think there is a need for some intervention by sometimes international organizations such as the World Bank the PPP type experience is really encouraging many NGOs come in in this space and none one institution can do it alone but I think the more this kind of good experience picks up the more it can also spread and get scaled but there is a big challenge but we also see a lot of very good progress in many areas and it's just a matter of focusing on those learning from those and really spreading them Thank you one more question Andre? Hi my name is Hannah Smith and I am the youth facilitator for the green economy section of GLF and my question is about the impacts that are proposed in the business plans I'm curious as to if metrics for measurement of these impacts in your business plans and how that's done for example is the baseline data already collected and how will you see in five years what your business plans have actually done for the landscapes Thank you Thank you very much I guess that's for me very important question and very relevant because what we have seen with the private sector is that most of the companies are buying the carbon credits that's the currency they're much more interested in actually the impacts and some of them are more in the biodivers and some of them in the social side now what you have at the moment you have the CCB which is CCB's community climate and biodivers standard which is the highest available but it's more like a safeguard so it guarantees that your project will not have a negative impact and does not require the project to collect and systematically measure the impact so we very much recognize that and as an impact investment fund it's at our core to develop our own framework and at the moment we are working on that so basically at the moment of contracting the project which goes through a very rigorous due diligence process in line with our ESG policy which helps us first to identify the projects which have the potential which also helps us to manage the projects to deliver those results at that moment we will work out a blueprint for each of our investments a logic model that shows how the impacts will be generated and then we'll come up with some key PIs, key performance indicators according to a 7 a 7 point framework and that's climate species on the climate side obviously the CO2 emissions saved we look at the key species according to their threatened and endangered status also look at their habitat how much of their habitat is saved ecosystem services, how much area we are protecting and also if there is a corridor so the assemblage of these habitats we look at inclusiveness sustainable enterprise so job creation and also fair economic return for the communities and for our investors so we according to these 7 7 points we will work out baselines we will work out some key PIs and we will report on a yearly basis back to our investors and clients and I hope that in a couple of years I will be able to share with you some experiences as at the moment we are just starting with our investment and developing this framework but it's absolutely critical there are more questions but we don't have time because one of the panellists really has to leave at 4 o'clock and it would be a shame if we just one panellist is leaving the podium this is a very important question this is a very important question this is a very very important one this one is more important I believe it's only one sentence and the answer is also one sentence can it be a short one, no? this one no more than yours one sentence, one sentence one sentence also thank you, my name is Stefan from the European Commission and I find the approaches that are presented very interesting and also the results measurement framework and the annual reports I think it would be interesting to see the actual results delivered but in the meantime to what extent can the experience from the forest investment programs inform us when it comes to lessons learned that could be useful for the integrated landscape approaches thank you you've got a question could you repeat the question it was not really one sentence okay I tried to be shorter this is a relatively new concept and it's going to be very interesting to learn lessons over time but in the meantime we have some experience with the forest investment program of the World Bank other lessons that are learned that could be useful for this new approach okay yeah I mean for those of you who don't know what the forest investment program is it's part of the climate investment funds that were set up in the bank a few years ago it's a dedicated funding specifically for the forest sector there was a certain expectation that the bank has a large program on the forest carbon partnership facility that already started to build up the readiness and the forest investment program then would come into finance some of the investments that are needed identified by this readiness we have quite a few countries globally that were selected to implement the forest investment program it was a fairly significant and elaborate process to actually develop forest investment strategy for it the World Bank together with regional development banks and the private sector yeah so I mean the bottom line is that these are ongoing processes there is a lot of planning that took place most of these programs are not yet fully under implementation so they are being approved by the subcommittee as we speak some of them have already been but it's too early to tell but I think again in about you know a few years we should be able to look at these as the four frontrunners or some of these landscape based programs thank you and as promised I would ask the panelist to come with one sentence as to conclude the presentation I think some of the panelists I know what they are going to say so but Edward well I think my one primary remark would be that for individual companies there is also a risk in being a leader an early adopter and in being asked to take on a range of landscape issues that are outside really a manageable interest and maybe your legitimate business interest and that's why we are taking landscape approaches with public-private partnerships because one of the key roles of the public sector is to share business risk in launching things until they become business as usual and then some of these additional mechanisms like the forest investment program can actually take responsibility for some of the public goods that can be generated by business but it can't follow all the way through to take responsibility for all of them so I think that's why it's a partnership simple it is something that all the panelists could subscribe as a final comment or not? something linked and it's a small service how many of you are in the private sector please raise your hand so we are a room of 150 and we saw like maybe 10 hands and that's a really small percentage so my last word there is we need to more frequently in a profound manner and know each other and have more empathy with that we will make solutions I want to thank you very much because of the time we really have to close because we have to leave the room I want to thank for your presentations and your answering and also want to thank you