 You're welcome back to the breakfast on Plus TV Africa and Happy Independence Day Nigeria. This morning we'll be taking a look at the good, the bad and the ugly of the country called Nigeria as we celebrate our sixth the first independence anniversary. Joining us to do this is Public Affairs Analyst Mr Upunnawo Ingotaria. Good morning, thank you for joining us. Good morning. Why does a lot of emphasis on all the things that are going wrong in Nigeria at the moment? I want us to begin with the positives. When you take a look at Nigeria since 1999 and then with a focus on the Buhari administration what could you you know say would be one of the greatest achievements so far? The greatest achievement? Yes, please. From independence and the Buhari administration? Well, if it's from independence, the greatest achievement so far is that we are still one. We don't have the vision, not the vision so far. The encasement is still one like Nigeria. That's the greatest achievement so far. I don't think there is any other achievement we cannot try to talk about. But if we talk of the Buhari's achievement, at the railway, at the railway, I think that's all. Apart from the railway, there's many other achievements. So you commend the rail infrastructure basically? Well, the president you know feels completely different you know of course from his speech this morning he said that in the last six years we've achieved a lot more than we have achieved you know since 1999 and you know of course which moves to put Nigeria on the right path. So what you know may he be referring to? Is it the you know improvement in the agricultural sector? Is it science and technology? Is it maybe infrastructure? The fight against corruption? You know of course maybe you know improvement in our GDP. Which exactly would you say the president might be referring to? I don't think the president, you know I would like to put it they say in the local parlance that which person my mask would wear this week? You don't expect Mr. President to come on air and criticize himself or criticize his government. You don't expect that. He's going to come on air to give the impression although in a few time man I say few times because as you are nobody can convince you that you're a girl. Nobody can convince you that you're a woman. It's not possible. I mean the facts tell us in the face are you talking of agriculture? Is it talk of improvement in the agricultural sector? We are all aware of the hunger in demand. We are all aware of the skyrocketing prices of food commodity. So what are we talking about? Because the whole extent of improvement in the agricultural sector is the reduction of prices. In this particular instance, the reverse is the case. The cost of living is extremely high. You go into talk of, you mentioned one thing, you mentioned about four other things. Please can you remind me? Oh I think I mentioned our GDP growth, agriculture, you know science GDP growth. Now let us forget about the soft history. Let's forget about the corruption and go to the first. When you say GDP, what is GDP? What does GDP mean? You are limited, you are educated, you are medicated. So we all understand when they say GDP. But does it make sense when it cannot transmit? The common man should not even without understanding what GDP means should be able to live above very well, above God. That is the whole extent, doing international communities talk of GDP, it translates. That is the whole, they are telling you this is the GDP and by extension it has improved on the lives, the economic lives of their citizens. Is that the case in Nigeria? That is not the case in Nigeria. Just yesterday, the day before, because 580 Naira to a dollar. So what GDP are we talking about? It makes the whole non... Are you going to tell the market to man GDP? Are you going to tell the capital GDP? Are you going to tell the proletariat GDP? It means nothing to them. What does it translate into? That is what the people on the masses, that is not the hyperloy, that is not the actor, what we need to translate into. We are talking of improved GDP, very why the cost of living is high. People can barely have the square million a day. So what essence is the GDP? So let's forget about this whole grammar. The whole bottom line is cost of living. The market to man... Are you even as educated as you are? Of what importance is the GDP to you if you cannot pay your children's coffee, if you cannot put food on the table, if you cannot pay your electricity bill, if you cannot do the basics, we are not talking of taxes, but the basic of what importance is GDP. So it doesn't make sense at all. You mentioned something else again, apart from the GDP. I really was just sharing those things. We may not need to focus on them individually. I just wanted to know what the president may have been referring to when he said that we've done pretty well compared to where we've come from. I'm very sure to say this on that. I don't even believe that the president understands what he's saying. Please present it to him and he's just being interested in nature. You can tell him to analyze his speech himself. It is reaching for him to be back in the nation. That's simple as it is. Well, many other people will disagree with you and say, you know, that's Sims, you know, almost like an insult to the president and his intelligence. I know you play the devil's advocate. The only people that will disagree with me are those that are also benefiting from this system. They are the ones that are good. Minority of them, because I believe majority of them are also essentially. So minority will just agree. Some are forced to agree because they don't have a choice. For example, behind Mohammed, the spokesperson, that is the additional quote, are forced to agree because they don't have a choice. They have to defend the policy no matter how bad it is. That is what they are paid to do. But I can tell you that even those in the government majority of them are not pleased because this is the worst government we've had. Apart from their backyard government, this can be said to be the worst government in the history of this country. All right. Mr. Inkotaria. Sorry, Anita. We've seen what the last few weeks or months, you know, have been like here in Nigeria. And that includes security challenges. Yesterday, of course, we had to speak about the death of Dr. Chika Kunili. We've also seen, you know, about 35 people or 38 people who were murdered in the north in, I think, the U.S. state or Burma state in the last 24 to 48 hours. We've seen the secessionist agitations, you know, both from, you know, the U.S. Sunday, the whole faction and, of course, Namdi Kanu. We've also seen, of course, a fight against corruption in Nigeria has not really improved much in the corruption index. There's a lot of things, you know, that we can point out as, you know, major, major challenges Nigeria is currently dealing with. Would you argue that or would you agree with those who say that we were always heading down this path to where Nigeria is today? And these 61 years really have just been, you know, moving in this same trajectory. And it's not necessarily the current administration that is to blame for where we are today. Well, to a very large extent, I would say yes, because we are posing into a travesty call in Nigeria, you know. I've always said that this program on a lot of other programs, on a lot of other programs, I have a chance to speak, that unless we agree on what I refer to as the movement of Nigeria, we will never have a fight. We will go with plundering the morass of procedures. You see, Nigeria and we are different nations, we're made up of different nations. And we have failed to appreciate the fact that Nigeria is made up of different nations. We still see Nigeria as what I refer to as the Asmetuins. In other words, we cannot separate them. The leaders before him and after him are said, you cannot question the individuality of this country. And I just laugh because, you see, what action is different from what's at the top of action? You can tell me, you can shout, you cannot invade my premises, you cannot revoke my deal, you cannot do this. But the man with the gun is invading. You don't have a gun, you don't have any means of defending yourself. And he's invading. We are just talking, he's doing the job. We can see that the Spanish leadership under Buwari, it is because it is so accentuated under Buwari because of his time of leaders, capacity leaders. That is why it's so accentuated. Others were able to manage the difference. No doubt, from 1914 up to this, it was snowballing, I agree with you. We're definitely going to get to the point of anarchy. If you don't address the bombing, senior issue, we're definitely going to get to that. The presidents before him, they're able to manage. But there's a great difference between managing the conflict and resolving the conflict. What our leaders have been doing in this country is to manage the conflict and not resolve the conflict. And so it's faster because when you bounce back, like when you're pushed to the wall, you bounce back to the double level. That is what's going on now. And that is why the issue of secession is assuming apocalyptic dimension, because a lot of people are sick and tired of what is going on in this country. So a lot of people believe that strategy is being employed just to keep the country together. Whereas it has to be a willy and good thing, not you don't need to coax people, not the willy. That's how you sit down and discuss. We had a lot of influences in this country. And like I said before, we don't even need another national conflict. It's completely unleashed. All we need to do is complete the various reports of all the conferences that have taken place. You add and supply. And we are going to get a document, a walkable and legitimate, not legal, legitimate document that Nigerians will walk with. And everybody will be happy. But if we fail to do that, it's just a matter of time, because we are headed slowly, unconsciously, to render with anarchy. No amount of force can stop it. No amount of networks can stop it. What will stop it is a practical approach and the realization of the fact that we are different entities that are coming together for a common good. And unless that fact is realized, it will be to be a freedom illusion to think that Nigeria will exist for another 30 years. That will be a freedom illusion. So we know that there's been lots of criticism of the presidency regarding insecurity. But one of the things the presidency mentioned here is that despite how it may be perceived by lots of Nigerians, that men and women of security agencies are actually taking the fight to the terrorists. And that in fact, in the north alone, over 3,000 Boko Ram insurgents have actually 8,000. Over 8,000 Boko Ram terrorists have surrendered. He also went on to mention the thousands of personnel that have been recruited into the security space in Nigeria. Do you think that's something we should praise the president for? 8,000 surrendered Boko Ram terrorists and lots of investment in security? I will start by saying the federal government is complacent in the first two security situations in the country. And those so-called Boko Haram defendants, I don't think they are actually Boko Haram defendants. And allow me to make the background. First and foremost, with the president, it's sympathetic to this criminal, they called Bandit. If you recall, he was the first person who said, if the Niger Delta military school, why not Boko Haram? Then again, when Boko Haram that was preceded as president, again when Boko Haram nominated, persons to represent them. The president is nominated for General Muhammad Ibu Ari. So there is a strong nexus between the Bandit and the suppressant. Now, we also have the issue of Gumi. If a South American should say a thing, next, terrorist, as in sender, as Gumi has said, we would have been behind bars. Gumi was never the federal government's representative. Gumi went and discussed with Boko Haram to put out pictures with them, but he never pleaded with them. Let's get this back to you. He never pleaded with them. He never insisted on the station of hostility by Boko Haram people. Rather, he gave the federal government the condition that unless they have granted amnesty to Boko Haram, these Bandits will continue in Dainiku. You can imagine, they are in this, the president, they are in the federal government. And yet, and Gumi also said that the federal government knows where these people, that even the soldiers, the wounded commanders know where these people are. Gumi said it, I did not say. I did not national tell him what has happened, not the federal government's competition. Shortly after, they are talking of amnesty for this Bandit. And they are saying talking of amnesty because the Niger Delta militants were given amnesty. But let us make this distinction here because they are not depending on any material particular. Let us make this distinction here. A militant is different from a Bandit. The Niger Delta militants, all they did was to frustrate the exploration of oil in the Niger Delta region. And that is the way to command the attention of the federal government, that have decided on this idea that there will be so much spiritual out of the people who are living or nothing to show for it. And Niger Delta still, tomorrow, are dying gradually because of the oil exploration and exploitation. The Phoenicians had a will. So they said, no, unless you address the Niger Delta issue that will not allow you to continue with this exploitation of oil in the Niger Delta region, they are talking of the road. They did not bend their swing on the regions, on other regions. They did not go out to kill people. They are not kidnapping persons. No. This is different from Banditry. These are terrorists. Who are now, these are innocent people, who are trying to crush their own style of religion, their own lifestyle, on other people in the country. They are two different things. And we didn't go against the federal government. So you can never compare them. I mean, it is the cloutness of the people. Now, how do you grant these Amnesty people? It is stupid. What are the family members they have still? And this Amnesty is only a decoy because they will reintegrate. It has happened in Kaduna. It has happened in a few others too. They will reintegrate. They will come into the system, get reintegrated, get more convert, and we will relaunch. Because what are you going to give to them? These are people that are used to receiving 50 million later, 100 million later, 200 million later. So what are you going to give to them? And we are talking of prison congestion. When you reintegrate, where are you going to keep them? Where are the IDP camps that you've not been able to take care of? Are you talking of 8,000 people? Are you going to reintegrate them into the system after this time? It is just not possible. But just because the Niger disaster militants were not killed. Just because they were not persecuted. It is as if, why will you prosecute our own? Why will you kill our own? But the situations are different. The scenarios are quite different. These are criminals who do away against a country. These other ones are saying, don't come into my house. Don't come into my house. I am talking about Niger disaster militants. So they are two different things all together. But the question is, if we don't kill these people, we cannot kill my own. And that is the problem we have in this country. All right, Mr. Angotara. That is the way. 60, 61. But he cannot do it. He cannot bounce over the issue of the refugee militants. Those people who are not refugee militants. They wait and force them to come out. So in explaining, they are, they are, they are protected. They, if you are not going to become a woman, I doubt it. And even the Kajuna state government has said it. But he doesn't want to negotiate with them. So what is the whole problem? Why would you prosecute them? I'm not sure if you can still hear us. So I may have lost him briefly. I hope, you know, that we can reconnect with him the few minutes that we have left to quickly speak on, you know, what he feels is, Mr. Angotara, can you hear us? Okay. So final question for me. I want your thoughts on what you will describe as, you know, the most disappointing part of our journey in the last 61 years. You know, and of course, the failures with which we've, you know, walk the failures as a nation with being able to fix our leadership recruitment process, you know, maybe that would have put us on a better trajectory. The influence of the military, you know, since independence, you know, with different coups here and there. But what would you say has been the most disappointing part in the last 61 years? And which parts would you, you know, say has led to, you know, the slow pace of growth for Nigeria as a country? All right. Seems we may have lost him again. But of course, we're still discussing Nigeria 61 years later, the good, the bad and the ugly. And of course, seeing what we've been able to achieve as a country where we currently are headed. Are we going to celebrate Nigeria 62 and 63 and 65? Or, you know, because there are going to be things that we may have to deal with in the future. And of course, does it seem in any way like Nigerians are proud of their country and their journey so far? Yes, indeed. The president did mention things about diversity, the fact that, you know, we're one great people, even though we have different cultures, different religions, and things like that. But one of his final words was that security, the unity of Nigeria, non-negotiable was still, our hands must be on deck. We must all see the other person as an equal member of society. We must all value one another and we must work with the government to make sure the country is in a better place. Yes, we're not where we want to be, but if we must get to where we want to go to, we cannot but do that together. We're going to short break. When we come back, we're moving into a totally different conversation. And of course, in the bit to move forward, how much can we involve our young female Nigerians in science and technology? After it comes up next day on the Bracklist, we'll be back in a minute.