 I welcome all of you viewing today to our first ever global innovation through science and technology or just guru series. These guru web chats are an opportunity for you, the entrepreneur, to discuss innovation and science and technology entrepreneurship topics with a subject matter expert. Guru complements just quarterly live broadcasts known as tech connects. And if you'd like to visit more just programs, please go to www.justnetwork.org. I'm delighted to have joining us today our expert, Cynthia Trager, who will discuss the topic, the key players for any startup, who they are and how to find them. Cynthia is CEO of Pacific, a technology holding company and she is founder and president of VSI Pacific, which provides proprietary hardware and software to customers worldwide. Cynthia mentors small and emerging businesses, supports STEM education and also supports women business founders and CEOs around the world. She serves as director Washington DC founder Institute, which is a just network partner and the largest idea stage technology accelerator in the world. She's an entrepreneur and investor and a philanthropist and we're thrilled to have her with us here today. Now just as a reminder, you can send questions to Cynthia at any time during this broadcast, either using the chat roll or using our Twitter at hashtag just guru. Cynthia, welcome and thanks so much for taking the time today to speak with us. Hi, thank you so much for having me. Happy New Year everyone. I'm delighted to be here and can't wait to talk to you about where you can find some of the key players in your areas and regions to help take your business to the next level. So with that, let's get started. Let me share this again. Stand by, here we go. So with that, let's get started. So for those of you, some of you may have already started a company. Maybe you've got an idea for a company, but one of the biggest questions that I have from entrepreneurs all over the world is if you've got an idea how you can succeed. So our goal today is to give you a little bit of a formula or a recipe to ensure that your idea or your business is a success and to do that, we're going to talk about how you can attract the key players or find some friends that will help you move that along. So on our agenda, we're going to talk about those things, those elements that can really help your idea succeed and thrive. We want to talk about what defines an entrepreneurial community, where you can find mentors, advisors, and peers, and at what stage do you need to find kind of different people to help you be successful. And then I want to leave you with ten rules for technology or STEM-focused companies to be able to succeed. And for sure, what we want to do is we want to factor in your answers, my answers to any of the questions that you have, and we want to ensure that we're getting your input as well. So if we talk about what really defines a great startup community, it's everything that you need at every stage that you're in to be able to succeed. A great startup community, first and foremost, is focused on your local needs and the resources that you have available to you in your region. The community knows what matters to you now and at every stage that you're in. It gives you access to other entrepreneurs and maybe other founders who have done what you've done before, maybe in a different industry or market, but they've got some tips and some lessons learned that they can provide to you. A really great community has access to fellow team members, people that you want to bring into your company, or it makes pools of people available to you, maybe through a college or a university or a local NGO. It gives you access to mentors and advisors. These are people who have done it before, who have success in one way or another, and who are willing to spend time with you and give you some advice and some tips. Ideal communities have access to investors, investment communities, or maybe banks or government grant programs that can give you the type of financial resources that you need. There's going to be support for you and your business within the community, and if the government can help you, you want to be able to tap into any resources that government agencies, NGOs, or others have. The key to doing this is to realize that with any idea or any business, you're going to be at three, generally three different stages in your growth. The idea stage is where you are when you say, hey, I've got a great idea that can help the business or local community where I am, and that's where you're going to formulate how you're going to go forward, and is it a good idea that can actually bring some benefit, or is it a good idea, a great idea that can go to market? At the start or launch stage, this is where you're going to formally kind of bring your company together and ensure that you've got all of the right tools in place to ensure that you're going to be successful. And at the growth stage, you've validated your idea, you've started your business, and now you need to be able to take it to the next level. And depending upon where you are at any one of these three stages is going to determine what types of players that you're going to need to be able to find. So at the idea stage, what you really want to do is you want to find other founders, other entrepreneurs who have ideas. They may not be the same idea as yours. They may be for a completely different market or industry, but you want to ensure that no matter what you have somebody that you can talk to, that you can share your successes with, but more importantly, you can talk about your challenges with. You also want to be able to look for some mentors and advisors who are also other successful founders, but who maybe are a little bit further along. Somebody who has had to overcome some of the challenges that you're going to face and that can help you understand how you can overcome those challenges and maybe do things in a way that will make your go-to market experience a little bit easier. You also want to try and identify some startup resources in your area. If there are meetups that are available, whether you can identify them through local networking activities, maybe there's an opportunity to do a hackathon which would bring technically focused folks together with the idea that you're going to overcome a challenge through coding something. Maybe there's an incubator or a networking event in your area, but all of these things give you the opportunity to identify peers, identify mentors, and form a little bit of a form for you to discuss ideas, challenges, problems, how you're going to solve them. You also want to be able to try to identify some team resources while you're at the idea stage. So you might be a great technical founder and you might have some great technical ideas, but in order to ensure that your idea is going to be successful and that your business is going to succeed, you need to identify some co-founders or some team members that are strong on the business or marketing side who understand how to engage with NGOs or government activities. You might find some of these people through local universities or colleges, et cetera, and there are other resources that you may need to be able to have in terms of once you've got a great idea, who within the local media is talking to you about these things. At the starter launch stage, we're seeing some of a lot of the same type of players that you need to be able to have, but now it's a different type of person, a group of people that you want to be able to bring in. Your peers are also still going to continue to be entrepreneurs, but now you're really looking for some people who are running cash positive businesses, right? They've taken their idea to the next stage. They formally incorporated or started their business and they've been able to take the idea from an idea to an actual product and some market and you need some peers and some others to be able to give you some advice on how to successfully do that. In terms of mentors and advisors, now that you're at the launch stage, you need to look for people who can give you advice on how to incorporate your business in your local region, maybe an accountant or a tax advisor who can help you understand what the financial aspects of your business are going to be and those things that you need to be attentive to, to be able to actually account for revenue and pay in team members and employees. The startup resources that you're going to need at this point are going to be more along the line of finding a co-working space where you can actually run and operate your business and that may fall into incubators, accelerators or other organizations like that. And the team resources that you're going to need now are a little bit different than building your core team. For example, if you've got a great idea for a device or some sort of piece of hardware that you want to be able to bring to market, you're going to have to develop a supply chain and so somebody who can help you understand who those resources would be and how you manage them is going to be very important for you to be able to identify. And at this stage, you're going to start to think about, do I need some funding? And if you do need funding, you want to try to identify who locally is investing in your idea, are there funds available for you to be able to tap into or maybe some grants that you can apply for. At the growth stage, and this is really where you've been able to validate your idea and successfully bring it to market, maybe you've got an alpha or a beta customer who's decided to take a chance on what you're doing and they've said, we'll give you some money and a way to start. Your peers here really need to be seasoned entrepreneurs who know your space. So if you're bringing a product or an idea to market, for example, in an agricultural space, you want to find another entrepreneur, another founder that's done that, who's successful in that space. If you're bringing someone who's successful on the fashion side, or maybe in the tech space, they'll be helpful for you, but you really need somebody that's going to be able to help take you to the next level. And the same is going to be true with your mentors and advisors. At this point, you really want to be reaching out to people who, whether they're local to you, whether they're within your region or at somebody globally, who knows your space and can help you understand how do you take it from a regional market, a national market to a global market. And your funding resources here are going to be a little bit different as well. You're going to want to see sophisticated angel investors, maybe venture capitalists or other institutional investors, bankers who understand companies in your market space and you have the ability to bring the amount of capital that you're going to need to be able to grow your business globally. Some of the other growth resources you need at this stage, you need to start thinking about formal office space. You need to start thinking a little bit more than just bringing a team together and slicing up the equity pie for them. You may, depending upon where you're located regionally, need to account for insurance, health insurance and other insurance for your company, for your employees. You need to be more concerned with legal resources. And you need to be concerned about if you have intellectual property in your region or your space, are you protecting it? And that's where some of your mentors and advisors maybe need to be lawyers or others who have helped patent or bring other intellectual property and protected it. At this point, media takes a different, kind of a different aspect. You need to think about not only what your product and your company message is locally and regionally. You need to think about how that message gets translated and delivered to different potential customers on different continents and different markets. So your approach to media and mass communication is going to be a little bit different at the growth stage. So having said that, where can you find some resources locally to be able to succeed? The Founder Institute is a just network partner and a great way to start is by looking at some of the startup ecosystem canvases that FI has out on their website. It'll give you a flavor for what some of the local ecosystems are around the world and some of the cities that the Founder Institute operates in. It'll give you some ideas for how you can identify some of those resources locally within your own region, how you can build your own canvas. Google for Entrepreneurs is another great resource that not only takes you through the steps of one of the things that you need to do to successfully be able to build a community within your local area or region. It gives you some examples of startup communities all around the world that you can tap and kind of peer into. And of course State Department's Just Network is a fabulous resource to be able to identify entrepreneurs such as yourself around the world to connect with mentors who are interested in talking with you and willing to spend time with you about your idea and your company and just a great way to kind of globally connect on all things that are entrepreneurial and focused on science and technology, businesses and startups. So with that I want to give you quickly a couple rules for success. As you're thinking through your idea and your business at whatever stage that you're at. And so we like to call these our ten rules for success. Rule number one is definitely be passionate about your idea. You may have a great idea and it may seem like a terrific market opportunity for you, but if you don't love what you're doing, if you don't feel like you could do it 24 hours a day, more than likely if it just seems like it's a great market opportunity, it's not going to be a great business opportunity. You really have to be engaged with what you're doing. So definitely be passionate about what you want to be able to do. Rule number two is keep your idea simple. You like to say keep it simple, simply. Because simple ideas win. You may have a great vitamin that you want to be able to bring to market because people in your area need to be able to supplement their diet. What an investor or a customer doesn't need to know is that secret formula for that idea. All they need to know is that it's going to help them be a better person in some way. So in that way, have an idea, even if it's terribly complex, boil it down to something simple and be able to state it simply. One idea that leads to one product for one customer. You don't want to have a big mouthful of complex technical words that you want to be able to try to help somebody understand. Just simply tell them what you're doing. We're developing a mobile app to help mothers focus on their concerns over social media. Rule number three, and this kind of works from country to country, continent to continent, business to business. Have one revenue stream and focus on it. If you can't sell one product into one market, you can't sell three products into three markets. This doesn't work that way. Start simple and focus on making money in one direction. We like to suggest that people also avoid complex business models. If it takes you three steps to get the money, it's too much. If there's too many complex manufacturing or distribution channels involved, too many people you have to get involved in your business. Chances are in the early stages your business is not going to be successful. So avoid complex business models. Have an app. I'm going to put it in the app store. I'm going to see how many people I can attract to keep it that way. Knowing your customer, if you can't validate what you're doing with someone who wants to have it, chances are you're not going to be successful doing it. And for those of you who kind of have been following the lean startup or the just network boot camp mantra of how do you validate an idea. This is what Steve Blank calls customer validation. You need to understand the problems that your potential customers might have, the challenges that you're trying to face, what the job they're currently doing is, and how you can help them do that job a little bit better. And so that's knowing your customer. And you also have to understand the market. Research your market. Understand who's buying what and who you're competing with and be able to back it up with real statistics. Not what you think, what you know. Because if your competitors know it better than you do, you will lose in the marketplace. And we always, particularly here in the U.S. and Silicon Valley, we like to talk about big markets. And big markets absolutely rule the day, but at the end of the day regionally, the definition of a big market is going to vary from where you are. 100% of a $50 market is only $50. 100% of a $500 million market may be $5 million, but if you can't sell one unit into one market of any size, you're not going to be able to succeed in your business. So at the end of the day, 100% of a zero market share is still zero. What you want to be able to do is maximize what you're doing for the markets that you're being able to go for. And customers want to know that you're different. We like to call this secret sauce. Help them understand why you are unique and why they would want to be able to buy the thing that you're selling, whether it's a service, a product, or something else. Be revolutionary, not evolutionary. You also want to try to break your solution before they do. You need to understand how your offering works inside and out, because a customer is going to take your idea, take your product, and believe me, they're going to use it in ways that you never have. And at the end of the day, you should be sharing your idea with everyone everywhere. You may think that your idea is unique, but somebody else more than likely has done it before. Talk to everybody you can talk to about what your idea is, why you're unique, and why you're different. If Elon Musk never took his first Tesla out of the garage, he wouldn't be driving Tesla's electric cars for that matter. So in summary, we've got ten great rules for success. Be passionate, keep your idea simple. Have one revenue stream and avoid complex business models. Know your customer inside and out. Know the markets that they live in. Capitalize on the biggest markets that you can within the regions that you are and ensure you're unique with some sort of secret sauce. Break it before they do and share your idea. So with that, I'm more than happy to take your questions. Well, thank you so much, Cynthia. I think that's a perfect time to stop and start chewing on a lot of the information you've given us. I think particularly of interest to our viewers are the idea, the start-up and the growth phases, because we often get questions about who to engage in these areas. So I think the first question that we might want to start with is, in these stages, who is actually the first person you go to? Is it a peer? Is it the mentor? Is it the investor? Who might be that first person? So the first thing that you want to try and do is find someone who's like you in your area who's starting a business. The most important thing that you can do is have somebody to talk to. Somebody to reach out to. Somebody to be able to say, I'm having a problem. How did you solve it? Are you having the same problem? And am I going in the right direction? Trying to do this in a vacuum by yourself is the hardest thing that you can do. Probably the second best person or group of people that you can find is to find an advisor or a mentor who's a little bit further along, who's been through it before, who can give you some advice. So those would be the first two people I would try to seek out. And that's absolutely, it sounds like something that would be really helpful, especially in the idea phase, of course. Now once you have this meeting though with the individuals you mentioned, how do you know that they're actually the right people for you? Because you might meet one mentor who's reached out to you or you might find someone with a business, but they may not be the best fit for your company or where you think you're going. So how do you evaluate that? So in the tech community we consider this as doing the work. We call this doing your due diligence. So what you want to do is you want to ask yourself, is this person doing something in the same market or industry than I'm doing something? Is this person an idea stage entrepreneur or a growth stage entrepreneur? Have they done it before successfully? In the case of a mentor or an advisor, do they understand my market? If I'm trying to start an agribusiness for example, if I have a mentor who understands fashion, they may know a lot about the business of bringing a product into the fashion market, but they might not understand a lot of the challenges that are involved on the agriculture or agribusiness side. So you kind of want to ask yourself at each stage that you're in, who is this person and what have they done before and what can they help me do to be able to succeed or thrive? So it might actually need a little bit of prompting from you as well, so they actually understand what you're looking for. Absolutely. Perfect. Well, our viewers have actually been sending in questions and one of the areas that you discussed, the knowing your customer, has garnered a lot of interest. Can you expand upon this a little bit for us? So one of the things that you want to be able to do if you're bringing a widget or an app or something to market, you may think you've solved a great problem, but you're solving that problem in a vacuum. What you need to be able to do is reach out to as many people as you can who you think have the same problem and you need to listen to what their challenges are in their businesses. So for example, if I'm trying to bring a new enterprise software product to a hospital, for example, to streamline the way a hospital brings patients into the mix, what I want to do is not create that solution in a vacuum. I want to get out there and I want to talk to as many hospital administrators as I can and as many hospital patient advocates as I can to understand the process that they're going through, because every hospital may have a different way in process for doing things. Just because you think you have the right solution doesn't mean that you understand what their problems are on a day to day basis. So getting out listening to the customer understanding what their challenges are and then taking that information back talking to your team about it or talking to your small startup group about it and understanding what their challenges are and factoring that into your solution is going to allow you to bring a better solution to market faster and with the customers real concerns in that. No, I mean that sounds like something that would be important, not just in maybe the context of say the United States, but we have our viewers coming from across the globe and it's interesting actually because one of our viewers commented her name is Le Cengine Modesty that I think knowing your customer is a rule that entrepreneurship revolves around. So it sounds like you agree with this. Absolutely, knowing your customer is the most important thing that you can do. And frequently with technology or engineering focused founders and entrepreneurs I find that they tend to operate a little bit in a vacuum. They've got the perfect technical solution it may be the perfect technical solution for them, but they don't understand how someone would actually, if someone would actually use that solution in the marketplace and if the features and functions that they've built into that solution are actually things that are important to someone who might want to use it. And so getting out there and talking to customer prospects talking to people who are solving similar problems and listening to them taking copious notes is the most important thing that you can do no matter where you're located no matter what region you're in no matter what industry that you're operating in or you want to operate in. No, I think No, I think that Lesagenes is probably taking very good notes on that. I think we all should be actually. But I kind of want to move since you're talking about customers I'd like to move a little bit about the conditions that entrepreneurs face in their countries. So a lot of what you discussed is going to vary obviously for our viewers in Nigeria to our viewers that we have today from Botswana to our viewers in Guatemala. And I was wondering since the conditions on the ground might be more favorable for entrepreneurs, whereas in countries maybe that don't have as advanced ecosystems for entrepreneurs might not have good conditions. How do you address those challenges? So the first thing to do in situations where there isn't a thriving startup or entrepreneurial community is to seek out organizations that may be able to help you. So maybe an NGO in your area that's focused on bringing communities together. Maybe a government agency that's focused on certain solutions for challenges in your area. It's a way and a place to start meeting people who are community focused and community minded. A local university if there's one in your area or if there's one in your region where you can just reach out and say, I've got an idea I'm trying to identify people who can help me. Maybe once a month we can try to get together to just talk about challenges in your area. For example, I'll go back to using the agro business idea. It might not be an investor or a fellow entrepreneur who can help you bring something to market. It might be a local farmer who's been farming in an area for a long time who maybe has brought one product to market for a very long time but understands the process of how do you reach different people in your region. As a farmer who's maybe bringing milk to market maybe from a family business there's a lot of lessons learned that that individual could bring to you. Talking out to that individual and just talking to them about the challenges that they've had is a great way to start. Universities again another great way to start just bring together a couple people once you can get that moving again working with NGOs or other government agencies can act as a platform just to get the conversation going. Thank you. I think that's actually very helpful because we had another question from Christopher Peckin-Belize and I think you just answered it he said that there's a lack of availability of incubators so I think the points that you just spoke to actually address those concerns when you're saying you reach out to universities and others. Switching gears a little bit you talked about oh I'm sorry. You talked about it's so many questions such little time intellectual property let's move to that topic how can you protect intellectual property when you communicate with your peers especially if they might be in the same business as you are and probably want to get ahead as well how do you manage that relationship? So one of the things that you have to be able to do whether in any region doesn't matter what country you're in there's a number of ways that you can protect what you're doing having a patent for intellectual property means that the government or regulatory body within your area allows you to file your idea with them and by putting that idea on paper and filing with the regulatory agency it will protect that. In the United States we call it patent in many other countries it's referred to as a patent but essentially that allows you to publish your idea but the laws and regulations will protect you in many other settings you don't want to do that you don't want to talk about your idea you want to talk about the essence of your idea and what the value proposition of your idea is to the customer or to the market but you want to keep the recipe for that idea secret we call that operating under a trade secret operation so for example the recipe for Coca-Cola is a trade secret it's not patented it's not published you can't find it online it's a trade secret so as an entrepreneur you have to understand that an investor is going to want to know what you're doing and why putting an investment into you is going to bring them some return on their investment it's going to bring some value to the marketplace in those settings you're going to have to trust that an investor is going to have your best interest at heart in terms of talking to other entrepreneurs you want to use your best common sense if you're going to tell someone the complete secret sauce for your idea you've got to trust that that person is either on board with you you're either going to have to bring them into your company and bind them into your organization legally a little bit or you're going to have to use common sense and think about kind of discussing the essence of what you're doing without giving up the trade secrets to what you're doing so it's a little bit of finesse but at the end of the day you have to understand that very few people are going to steal your idea they just can't operate that that quickly and that efficiently and very large companies certainly don't have the time the budget, the money to steal your idea so a month of common sense a little bit of secret sauce or trade secret and just navigate your situation carefully so in a situation like this particularly in a country where potentially there aren't the patent regulations that might be in place is it then perhaps a good idea to try and have the peer that you're talking to fold it into your startup I mean would they make a good team member because you mentioned teams but finding those team members might be a little difficult and this seems like a good situation where you might be able to have that person on board absolutely so at the end of the day there's only so many great ideas that can survive in certain markets and if you've got a great idea and someone else has a great idea sometimes the best thing that you can do in challenging environments is come together and work together towards a single goal or maybe towards a shared goal maybe this is an opportunity for the two of you or several of you to start a company but look at take the best aspects of each idea and see which one you can bring to market first sure that makes perfect sense and talking again more about bringing the ideas to market several of our viewers also took an interest in your comment about big markets rule and they were wondering if you could expand on this especially in the context that many of our viewers are working in developing countries and they only have access to small markets so if you could give a little bit more information and maybe an example I think that would be helpful so I think a definition of a market it depends on what you're doing where you're living and where you're doing it if you can't sell something to one customer it doesn't matter how big the potential market is in your area your customer is a customer of one what you want to do as you're growing though is be able to have the biggest pool of potential customers available to you that you can because if you can only identify one customer you may have to ask yourself is this the right market or the right business for me to be in if that one customer can provide you with a living wage and you're running a lifestyle business a business that is not dependent upon finding a second customer or a third customer that's okay if your goal is to operate a company that is going to allow you the revenue that's coming in from that company is going to allow you to hire more people who can help you bring your vision to fruition that can allow you to grow outside of your city your village or your region then you're going to have to think about a bigger marketplace but if you can't grow out of your city, your village, or your region thinking about a billion dollar global market doesn't make much sense at the end of the day at every stage that you're in you want to have the option, the opportunity to be able to sell your idea your product and your service to as many customers as possible and you want to always ask yourself is there another customer out there is there another group of customers out there and so that's why we say big market rules big markets rule if I want to be able to sell water bottled water within my region but I don't care about selling it outside of my country I want to look at the maximum number of people who might be inclined to buy water in a bottle and that's going to be my target market if I want to be able to do it outside of my village or my region then I want to look at how many people potentially could buy bottled water in my country for example and that would be the market that I would want to aspire to and if I had really big aspirations and my idea was really great my product was really superior and I wanted to look at it on a regional maybe within Europe and the Middle East and Asia then that would be my global market for that but if you look at your biggest market it is the one that you can sell absolutely and it's actually interesting because we had another individual who I guess is following up on your question quite perfectly saying how do you get a product export ready given that this individual Carmen is in again a small developing country and wants to get into that global market that you were discussing so there's a number of ways that you can do that if you have access to the internet and online resources what you want to do is you want to take a look at the surrounding companies or the regions or the regions that you want to be able to go into and you want to access the resources that those countries have for import regulations so in the case of Belize you're going to want to conform find out what your country's export regulations are what your requirements are but more importantly what the import requirements are for the countries that you want to be able to sell to so for example if you want to be able to sell the United States you could go out through the State Department and maybe through the State Department resources find the U.S. regulatory agency that would govern imports into the United States and you would look at those you would do the same thing in America and all the South American countries maybe if your goal is to export your product into Europe or some other area you would do that as well the other thing that you might want to consider doing is reaching out to an NGO that works with businesses in your country or region that helps entrepreneurs bring their products to global markets most countries have federal agencies or federal agencies that will help you do it most countries there's an NGO in most countries that will help you do that as well another great resource for that is the World Economic Forum where you can find information on different countries and what the regulatory requirements are for imports and your business for export and again the resources that you provided earlier in the presentation for the viewers I'd like to let you know the presentation on our website once the presentation has concluded today so if you want access to the websites that Cynthia has offered or here looking at the World Economic Forum we'll have that posted so if you want to reference it later we'll have that available let's go now to a viewer from South Africa who is interested in the one revenue stream you would discuss Cynthia and the individual asked how absolute is having one revenue versus having one and then building off of additional services so to be successful does it have to be that structure or is that just perhaps a greater likelihood of success so I think it's a greater likelihood of success I mean at the end of the day if what you have is a product that you can sell locally if you're in an area or a region that has a thriving both local or brick and mortar business infrastructure as well as a potential for online product marketplaces having two revenue streams there might suit you okay but it's much of a challenge to sell online and be focused as a small team or a single entrepreneur as it is to try and sell locally I mean you have to cultivate customers market share opportunities you have to identify them you have to nurture them you have to follow up with them it just as rigorously with a excuse me local sales strategy as you do online no that's perfect actually unfortunately we're kind of coming to our last question so what I might ask to wrap things up is of everything that you've discussed today what do you think is the most important takeaway for our viewers as they go forward after this presentation find people who can help you at every stage whether it's a fellow entrepreneur whether it's somebody in your local region who you don't perceive as a business person but someone who's been in the business of being in business for a long time find people who can help you excuse me search out peers search out advisors but most importantly continue to be engaged don't try to do it in a vacuum because an entrepreneur shouldn't be an island an entrepreneur should be surrounded by people who are enthusiastic about what you're doing and why you're doing it and so at every turn you're going to find people that are going to tell you just give it up and find a job but at the end of the day if you're passionate about what you're doing find people who will successfully and cheerfully help you do what you want to do and I think that passion is probably the one adjective that I've at least held on to since your presentation not only for the entrepreneur but as you said you have to do it 24-7 and you have to love it passion I think is the key ingredient so unfortunately that is all the time we have today Cynthia thank you so much again for your expertise for answering these questions from our viewers around the globe thank you so much for tuning in to this first guru series I wanted to let you know that again this will be occurring every month except for the quarterly tech connects our next tech connect is on February 9 and is another chance for you to ask questions of experts so please tune in again it's www.gistnetwork.org and my final announcement is the 2016 GIST Tech Eye Applications are closing on I'm sorry Friday January 22nd at 12 p.m. EST this competition gives you the opportunity to earn mentorship, training and some seed funding for your startups so please go to our website and apply if you can we hope to see you here for future discussions and thank you so much best of luck