 Hey, welcome back everyone to our second lecture on BC212 Christian Apologetics. I will take some questions, any questions based on our lecture in the earlier class. I see a question on the chat from Chachin. We, being born in Christian homes, have been hearing the truth of the Gospel many times and one day we accepted Jesus as our Savior. So what about others who from birth aren't exposed to the truth of the Gospel in any way? Maybe because of their parents of different faith, will they be able to know, be exposed to the truth about Christ at least once in their lifetime? How much are we as believers accountable in spreading this Gospel in addition to praying and interceding for them who are lost? Alright, now I'm going to just respond, of course, based on what we know from Scripture. One is the responsibility of sharing the Gospel has been given to us as believers and this responsibility is so great that Jesus put it like this in John 20. I think it was 23, 24. He said, whoever sins you remit, whoever sins you forgive, it will be forgiven and whoever sins you do not forgive, it will not be forgiven. I mean, that means it's not like we are going and forgiving people their sins. Obviously, we are not doing that. It's only God who can forgive. But in commissioning us to bring the Gospel of Jesus Christ, this is in a sense what is being placed on us. The ability to bring forgiveness to people or actually withhold forgiveness from people, the forgiveness of their sins. So that's the seriousness of us proclaiming the Gospel that people can be forgiven or not forgiven whether or not we do our part in bringing the Gospel to them. Now, of course, each one of us will have to do our part in whatever way we can to bring the message of Jesus to people in this world that we have to do. Now, in Romans chapter 2, the Apostle Paul addresses this question. What about people who have not heard? In our third year, we would be studying the book of Romans verse by verse and we will be looking at this. And it is a very interesting study in Romans because in chapter 1, Romans chapter 1, the Apostle Paul outlines the problem that though God in creation has made himself known, people have willfully rejected the evidence he's giving in his creation and they've gone in their own sinful ways and God has let them go. Then in Romans chapter 2, he is now talking about, and I remember part of his audience are the Jews who had the law and he's addressing the question, okay, God has given the law. At that time, they had the law which we call the Old Testament. So God had given that the scriptures to the Jewish people. But the obvious question is, what about all the others? How will they believe? Because they don't have the scriptures. So that is answered for us in Romans chapter 2. The answer that Paul gives basically, and I'll just mention this. You'll study it in detail in the third year. But in Romans chapter 2, Paul points, let me get the exact verse. I think it's verse 15. I can't remember correctly. Let me just get it. Yeah, verse 15. So if you look at this, he says, verse 14, for when the Gentiles who do not have the law, so this is the question, they don't have the law. So how will they get to know God? So he says, when Gentiles, Romans 2, 14, when the Gentiles who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, that means something, they have been designed this way, that every human person has been designed to be morally right, to pursue God and pursue morality. They've been designed by nature. They do the things in the law. These also not having the law. They don't have the written scriptures. They're a law to themselves. So what is a law to themselves? The way they have been designed. So the first thing, Romans 2, 14, Paul points it is, God has designed people in a way that they will pursue God. They will seek God. They will pursue morality by nature. They're designed like that. So it's almost like, yes, they don't have the written scriptures, but God has made them with, you know, this ability to pursue God. Then he continues, verse 15, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness. So in Romans up to one, he said, God is giving a witness through his creation. Right? That is in, I give the verses he says in verse 20. So in Romans 1, 20, God is giving witness to people all over the world through creation. Romans 2, 15, there's another witness. There is something God has written in their hearts. Their own conscience, which is a witness to them. So two witnesses. So you and I are actually the third witness, but every person already has two witnesses from God. One, Romans 1, 20, creation. Second, Romans 2, 15, conscience. It's already there inside that is witnessing and telling there is a God. You must seek the truth. You must seek the living God. So he's saying, see, they don't have the written law. They don't have the written scriptures, but they have a conscience. They have been designed by God to seek him and to so on. And then he says in verse 16, which is very important, God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. Everybody is going to be judged by the gospel, whether they have the scriptures or not. No excuse because two witnesses are given to every human person. First witness is the creation. Second witness is their conscience. Third witness is you and me bringing the gospel to them. And every person, Romans 2, 16 will be judged by Jesus Christ according to the... So do we have a very important part to play? Yes, we have to bring the gospel. But what happens to those who don't hear the gospel? God has said, I've already given them two witnesses. Is that okay, Justin? I'm not sure if that satisfies the answer, but we can only share what's in the scriptures. Any other questions, please? From chapter 9 about the Bible, authenticity and accuracy, we've been talking about... Like accuracy, you also explained about the law of contradiction. And regarding it like speaking about Bible authenticity and accuracy, there's one question I just heard regarding the contradiction that Bible... About one thing, its statement is different. Like with the death of Judas. Judas' career? Yeah. In Matthew chapter 27, verse 5, it says, So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself. He hanged himself? Okay. Matthew 27? Yeah. Okay. And in Acts chapter 1, verse 18, it was written like, with the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas brought a field, there he fell ahead long. His body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. So this was contradicting and how we can, like when someone asks and when we are talking about Bible authenticity, when we are talking about it, if people question about it, how we can give just, how we can reply our answer to this. Okay. So let me look at Matthew 27. Matthew 27, verse 5. How many coins he threw? Then he threw down the pieces of silver. Does it say he threw down all the 30 pieces? He threw the money into the temple. He threw the money. How much money? We don't know. So, example, they gave him 30 pieces of silver. He, we can't prove this or disprove it, but I'm just trying to explain both these verses. With some number of pieces of silver, he would have bought this light. Example, five pieces. He still had 20. So bag is still ringing. Then when he has seen everything that has happened, he's convicted. He goes and throws it and goes and hangs himself. So we don't know how many pieces of silver he threw. Maybe he threw 15, maybe he threw 20. I don't know, but he threw some amount. Whatever he had left, he would keep it. But with some portion, he has bought the lamp. Yeah, he bought it. So he has planned his own death. He bought the lamp. Give you the return money, keep it. I will go. So both are correct. Regarding the death, it was a return. Those details are very gory details. When somebody hangs himself, what will happen? So many things can happen. So it's basically saying it is another way of saying he hung himself. Turn on how it happens. When people kill themselves. Yeah, we're telling the same story. Correct. We're narrating the same event, but we're saying this is what he did with the money. We don't know exactly how much he spent on the land and how much he threw back, but he did this and the end was he killed himself and this is what happens. So everything is correct, but they are pieces of the same story. What do you have spoke about Jesus and this judgment? How we actually, just in asked about how much? How much? Our responsibility is sharing the gospel. When you are sharing this witness, one is the first witness and second is the conscience and then we people. I mean, when we see this, if there are people which people living in an island, they don't even know who Jesus Christ is. They know there is a witness in front of us, but what if they don't have that knowledge to just come to a conclusion there is a God and on the other side, there will be worshipping a God with some maybe keeping one stone or something. So when we come to the judgment and all, so can we take it like depending upon their conscience, they'll be judged. Like when we see about the little children also, when we quoted in this Romans 211, he's not a partial. He's not like because they didn't accepted me, I don't take them. It's not like that, right? Yes. Okay, so we have to separate our children and adults because for children, again, we cannot prove this like what the way I say is, it's not conclusive, but what Paul indicates again, this if you go back to Romans, I don't know if I already shared this with you. Romans after seven, verse nine, Romans seven, verse nine. So we are talking about children, right? So what happens to children? In children's case, there are two things. One is they are so small, they cannot understand either about sin, about God. Maybe they can understand about God, but they cannot understand about sin and forgiveness and salvation. We say God, some understanding of God is there, but about sin and salvation is two-year-old, three-year-old, four-years, we don't know when they will come to understand. And Paul seems to talk about this in Romans, chapter seven, verse nine. So notice he says this, he's talking about his own life. So who was Paul a Jew? How was his life? From his early childhood, he will start learning the scriptures, the Old Testament, the law. He will from his early, every Jewish boy, Jewish person. Early childhood, they start learning scriptures. So he's referring to his own life. But notice how he says this, Romans seven, nine. I was alive once without the law. That means until he reached that age, then he started learning the law, which may have been around 11, 12, something like that. He says, I was alive. That means his spirit is referring to his spirit, spiritual life. He says, I was alive without the law. When was Paul a Jew without the law? It can only be in his childhood. You're understanding, you know? Because that is the only time he could be without the law. He's a Jew. From the time he is able to understand, he will be taught the law, right? From the time he was 11, 12, something that age, he was, as a Jew, he would be taught the law. So until that age, he says, when I was without the law, I was alive to God. His spirit was open to God. So as a child, he's open to God. But he doesn't yet have the understanding about the scriptures, the law. But then he says, but when the commandment came, that means when I was taught the commandments, what happened? Sin revived and I died. That means now I understood sin and I died. Where not physically, spiritually. Because now I'm accountable to the law, to the commandments. So we understand something that, and this is just a phrase. It's not a Bible phrase. We call it the age of accountability. The age when you understand the commandment of God. Before that, as children, you're like, your spirit is open to God. But then you come to this place, when you begin to understand about right and wrong, you begin to understand about. So that's when your conscience is now teaching your mind about morality and teaching your mind about God. Then you become responsible for your sin. You become responsible for your knowing and how you respond to God. So to answer your question for children, and this is again, we cannot prove this conclusively. I'm just saying, this is what we believe. If you ask me personally, this is what I would say, that children, before the age of accountability, God will take them to heaven, even though they have not heard the gospel or they've understood the gospel, because they're alive to God, like Paul says here. Now I know that some people can argue, ah, we're all born in sin. I understand that we are born in sin, it's true. But I'm just going by this insight here in Romans 7.9, that until the understanding of the commandment comes, we are alive. The person is alive. That's all. So beyond this, we don't have too much of chapter and verse. We know that in Matthew 18, Jesus said, let the children come to me. And their angel is standing before the Father. So we understand there's a special place for that, children. But how God is going to judge children, how God is going to judge someone who has never heard the gospel, like you mentioned, somebody in a place where they've never heard and they've just lived by their own conscience. How is that going to happen? Everybody can say it's Romans 2.16. God will judge everyone according to the gospel. That's what Paul says. So we will leave it at that rest. We will find out when it actually happens. The only way we can come to the conclusion is when we see 1 John 2, 2 and John 3, 18 also, we are not going to hell because of us sins. The only way is if we are going to heaven, the only way is we have to keep faith on Jesus. That's the only way we are being judged like going to hell or heaven. Yes. Whether we have received Jesus or not. So earlier also when we were talking about the people who lived before Jesus Christ, Old Testament, so when you are seeing about the faith on Yahweh, is it not like when we come back to the Old Testament, there are some rules and regulations like we have to be like this, we have to be like that. This is how we have to live if we are called to be holy or if it like that. So can I tell like it's because of our works or it's like how you are telling it's only because of the faith on Yahweh? So even in the Old Testament, people were saved only by faith, not by works. Example in Romans, let me give you the exact verse. Romans 13 and verse Paul is preaching with, or maybe it's Acts 10. No, not Romans. Sorry, just give me a minute. Let me, for by, it's not coming. One minute, just give me a minute. By the way, there are several places it says this, but I know even in James 2. Okay, let me just give James 2 because that I know for sure. James chapter 2, let me see. James 2, he basically tells us that by the law, no one can be justified. So James chapter 2, which verse is this, have a cook too is talking about we walk by faith, faith. And then, so he says, yeah. Okay, good. Yeah. So Romans 3 20. Good. Also in James 2, like verses 10 to 12 is basically saying, you know, if you break one of the thing, one of the law, you're guilty for the whole law. James 2 10 to 12. So, and then he explains how Abraham was justified through faith. Let me just recall this. James 2 20. Oh, okay. Yeah. And yeah, and I'm going back to act 13. It says verse 39 by him 39 by him, everyone who believes justify from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses acts 13 39. So even in the Old Testament, it was very clear that but the keeping of the law, they could not be justified. And it had to be only through faith. And Abraham was. So there the works is the works that accompany faith. Right. So works that accompany faith. It's not like, so there and James 2 is trying to explain, you know, you have to have faith and you then you have works that come out of faith, which is in contrast to the works of the law. So what we were saying was even in the Old Testament, the Old Testament saints were saved through faith. So Genesis 15 6 and also Romans 4. It talks about Abraham and Abraham was justified by faith. Exactly. So Abraham himself was justified by faith, which Romans 4 verse 3 Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. So he believed God and that's what brought righteousness. So God gave him or imputed to him righteousness. Romans 4 verse 3. So Old Testament people also people in the Old Testament, they also had to have faith. And it was through faith they received. It's like down payment and advanced payment of righteousness that came through faith. So they couldn't they were and so when you look at Hebrews chapter 11, he's all the Old Testament people before the law, under the law. It's also by faith, by faith, by faith. It's none of them by the law. As we have now in Bible, like we have references and we have proof that we can tell like if we believe in Jesus Christ only will be saved. Is there any references like before? Is there any gospel like before in the Old Testament? Is there anything like that? How can keep on that point and can believe in Yahweh? So we must remember that, you know, everything, especially in the early period, everything was oral. So the people communicated their faith orally before they started writing it down. So and we don't have a record of everything that they spoke. So we have to use our imagination a little bit. Imagine Abel came, came and Abel. Adam would have said, hey, I want to tell you a story. What happened? He was living in a very nice garden. Your mom and I were living in a very nice garden. We were enjoying the fruit, everything. And God told us not to do something. We did it. And this is what has happened. So you better listen to God. I'm sure it's things were transmitted orally. Now these are not recorded for us. What Adam and Eve would have spoken to Canaan Abel. And I'm sure Adam would have said on the day we sinned, God did something very strange. Canaan Abel listening, what he did very strange. God brought two leather jackets. I mean, he brought animals. He said, see, I made the best thing out of the leaves. And I wrapped myself and I wrapped your mother with these leaves. But God came and he gave us something different. He gave us animal skin to cover us. And then I asked God, now this is not written there. I'm just imagining, right? I asked God why he gave us animal skin? Why can't I use my coat of leaves? And God told me because only this can cover your sin. I'm just imagining, right? Because all this conversation is not recorded for us. But these interactions may most likely would have happened between Adam and God and he would have passed it on to Canaan Abel. So then when Canaan Abel wanted to worship God, why did Canaan go and bring killer sheep? Who taught him that? He was not attending all people's church. Who taught him that in order to worship God, he had to bring a lamp and sacrifice. Where did he get that understanding from? And God accepted that. He must have remembered, hey, my father told me when he sinned, God brought the skin of an animal and covered it and said that is what will cover your sin. So that means God must have killed two animals and brought the skin of that and given to my parents. So maybe I will also give God an offering like that. I'm just imagining, right? Because that understanding had to come from somebody. Either it would have come directly from God or it would have come through what was passed orally, right? And from generation to generation, every generation that understood the things of God, whatever God spoke, must have been passed on. So when Enoch came, he must have walked with God. He would have understood God. And in fact, the Bible says Enoch was a first person or at least a recorded person who prophesied about the return of Jesus. Can you imagine? It's very interesting, no? Enoch prophesied and you read this in Jude, I think, right? Jude 1, verse 14, he says, Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam prophesied about these men also saying, behold, the Lord comes with 10,000 of his saints to execute judgment and all to conduct ungodly among them of all the ungodly deeds and goes on. That means you're saying even at that time, God was speaking to people and they were preaching. And Enoch was the first preacher who preached about the coming, I'm not saying first, but it's recorded for us that he preached about the coming of the Lord with 10,000 of his. He preached about the second coming of Christ. How did they get the revelation? Well, God must have spoken to these people. So all this was happening during that time. They were the orally communicating truths and that's how they would have understood truth. Now it's not all recorded for us. We don't have it. That recording came later on when Moses came. Nina, you have a question? Yes, question. The judgment that is referred to in Romans 2, 16, which is talking about when God will judge the secrets of men. Is that applicable to believers or no? I mean, we were talking about the witness of creation one and the witness of conscience. So is that referring really to unbelievers? And if it is referring to unbelievers, I mean, the judgment, is it talking about that it would be less severe or I mean, will they be judged? Because if they are not going to be, is this judgment, you know, concerning all or is it only for the unbelievers? This thing, because judgment for the believers, I mean, we are not judged because of our sin. Isn't it? Okay. So the question is, we just put the question very simple. Is the judgment for believers different from the judgment for unbelievers? The answer is yes. Right? So believers judgment is described in 1 Corinthians chapter 3 versus 11 onwards, 11, 12, 13 onwards. And also in 2 Corinthians chapter 5. In 1 Corinthians 3, Paul says, our works will be tried with fire and whatever is of gold, silver, precious stones, that's what will remain. In 2 Corinthians 5, Paul says, we will all stand. That's talking about believers. Verse 10, we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ. We will receive what we have done in the body. So the judgment of believers described in 1 Corinthians 3, 2 Corinthians 5, verse 10, is a judgment that will take place in heaven after we go there in heaven. This is after the rapture. We are in heaven. So next semester we'll study about the end times. So when we are in heaven, that's when our believers' judgments will happen and we will receive rewards. So our judgment, the judgment of believers is not whether to be saved or not, but it's about the rewards we receive. The judgment of the unbeliever is, there is of course the immediate judgment when they die. We either go to heaven or go to hell. So there's immediate separation in hell that happens at the time of death. But the final judgment is described in Revelation chapter 20, verse 15 onwards, where Paul describes the great white throne, where every person will stand before the throne of God. There will be the sheep and the goats. There will be those on one side of believers who are already separated. We already received our rewards, but then this great white throne judgment will be unsaved or the unbelievers. Those names are not written in the book of life. So he says in Revelation 20, verse 15, whose name is not written in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. So that's the great white throne judgment, the final judgment. So these are two separate, right? The believers' judgment, the great white throne judgment. Did I answer your question? Yeah, go ahead. So, Romans 2.16 is talking about the secrets of men. So what is that referring to, actually? Okay. So that will be where every person will be judged, not the believers, but every unsaved person will be judged. And that will be in the great white throne judgment. Okay. And just one more question, Pastor, sorry. When we mentioned this thing about the, that they have with the witness of the conscience and that they have creation, the witness of creation and that man is without excuse, then how do we understand Romans 3 where it says there is no one righteous, there is no one who seeks after God? So... Yeah. So that is man's position after living in sin. So we can understand it like this, right? When a person is, when a baby is born, the child is alive to God. I mean, there is no corruption. Yes, they're born of Adam's race and in that sense, they're born in sin, but the spirit is clean since they're open alive to God like we saw in Romans 7.9. But then at some point, the understanding of right and wrong comes and the person can choose to keep doing wrong, evil, keep going and we can just all live a normal, modest life and try to be good, whatever. To whatever extent they have, they can listen to their conscience. They can be aware of creation and say, yeah, there is a God. I must seek for God and go after God. Or they can see at their own conscience. They can go against that. The tendency is that more and more people take this root where they just depart from any evidence of God and go away from God. So that's where Paul is writing in Romans 3. He says, there is no one. Romans 3.10, there's no one who is righteous and all have sinned. No one is seeking after God. So that's the journey most people are making, which is true. Most people make that journey. They're not seeking after God. And to them that we need to bring the gospel. So that's Romans 3.10 onwards. One more last. When we talk about conscience, I mean, the regular person I'm saying, when he looks at creation and conscience, he tells, so what he's really discerning is just right from wrong. Or will he, if he kind of seeks, he will really be pointed. I mean, if a person honestly seeks after God, will it happen that they'll be able to look at Christ? I mean, it says man is without excuse in Romans 1. So what are we saying? I mean, so because there it also says in Romans 1 that God gave them over. He said, like all those verses there from 16 to 20, it says, you go ahead and do what you want. The wrath of God was revealed against the godlessness of man. So is it saying that even if they had a conscience, but if they continued in their particular way of thing, there's no hope for them. Is that what it means when says God gave them over? All right. So in Romans 1, he's talking about, if you look at it, man who has advanced in the progression of depravity. So that means they have willfully rejected God. The evidence that God gave in His creation, Romans 1. 20, they have willfully changed the image of the incorruptible God into created things. So that's another level. Then they have willfully gone against the very nature that God put in them and man committing sin with man and so on. And so when they have gone to that level, God has just given them up. That's the progression you want. You continue in that way. So easily if you read from verse 20 on, you read how things are progressing. You see that man is talking about greater and greater depths and sin and then finally God gives them up to a debased mind. He gives them up to all of the wrong things. That's the way you're going. He's letting them go. But if you go back to your question about conscience, and I think Acts 17 verses 20, Paul's message, Paul's sermon on Mars Hill is quite interesting here in this context. He's saying God created everybody. He's telling these people, the unknown God, the God you don't know whom you're worshiping I want to talk to you about him. Acts 17 verse 23 onwards. So he's like saying, I want to introduce you to the God, the unknown God that you're trying to find out, you're worshiping. And there he says in verse 27, that they should seek the Lord and hope that they might grope for him and find him, though he's not far from each of us. That means as man is moved by both the evidence of creation and his conscience, the thing that God wants is for us to seek for him and then we should find him. And he says God is not far from each one of us. So that's the other side. So on one side, generally people are progressing more and more in darkness. On the other side, there will be people who see the evidence of creation, who are responding to conscience. The beginning is seek for God. And the intent is that as they make that journey, they will find the true and living God. So yeah, people can go either direction. If you look at, if you consider them as opposite directions, people can go in either direction. And that's what we come in is when we want to, you know, point people to Jesus Christ. Okay. All right. Thank you for all the questions. One more question. Mike, we've got for life. Some of the names got erased. God will erase. So what about that, how we can understand it? Yeah. So shall we talk about the next time? Just remind me. Don't forget. I might forget. So the question is about book of life. It's a little big question. So, you know, we have to think about this. I mean, the real question is, book of life was written before the foundation of the world. Okay. God put everybody's names in the book. That means he put the names of people who would accept him. He already saw, he put them in the book. Then how he can erase. And if he's erasing, did he make a mistake? That is the question. Right. So it's a big question. Right. So let us please remind me next class. Let's close in prayer. Okay. Can somebody please pray? Thanks. Thank you Jesus for your learning. How many things about your existence? Lord, we pray whatever we learn to God. We have to learn and understand and use it for the glory of God. Thank you Jesus for this class. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen. Thank you everyone. We'll pick this up next week. Continue. Thank you. God bless. Bye.