 and knowing that the God who made us loves us so much that he invites us into relationship with him and he invites us to come boldly to the throne of grace. Welcome to Hope Today. I'm Anna and I'm here with Tom and Tom, we get to talk about talking to God. I know, I love that boldly to the throne of grace. I always am amazed at that, that we get to walk into the throne room of God boldly. Well, we're gonna have Addison Bavir with us. He's gonna be talking about words with God. Do your prayers matter? What if anything happens when we pray? And are we having words with God or just words with ourselves? We're gonna learn more about that on our chat today with Addison Bavir. And this is a really important subject because we've got God. He's the most interesting person in the universe, right? Nobody's more interesting than God. Nobody's more glorious than God. Nobody's more fantastic than God. And yet prayer is sometimes kind of like, we wonder what in the world is going on? I'm sorry if that messes you up out there. I've fallen asleep in prayer meetings and I've been at times, even in my personal prayer, challenged to focus, challenged to really break through to that relationship aspect with God and that conversational aspect with God. And I'm sure I'm not alone in that. Yeah, so I've been loving Jesus since I was a little girl and talking to him. It's interesting through the different seasons of life, through the stages of life as we're growing in our relationship with God and we're trying to figure out like, how do we talk to him? Is there a right way? Is there a wrong way? Is he listening? Does he care about the little things or is it just the big things? And so I think like each one of us at different times we have those questions about prayer because it's important and we wanna know that our prayers are effective and that he hears us. Absolutely and don't be afraid to God's not insecure. He's not worried about our questions. Don't be afraid to approach God and say, God, why am I having trouble getting hold of you? Why am I having trouble locking into the things that I know that this should be a joy? And many times we do wrestle with that. Also it is Testament Tuesday so be sure to hang around for later in the program. We're gonna be sharing a scripture with you and it has to do with this entire subject matter of prayer and talk to the Lord. Yeah, it really is just such a precious gift that we have that the God of the universe who's over all things loves us so much and invites us into that intimate personal conversation. Yeah, absolutely. Well, we're gonna take a quick break and then we'll be back with Addison Bavir and Words with God. Hope happens here at Cornerstone Television. All this month we're offering a joy-filled DVD, Christmas with the Chosen, The Messengers for your best gift to the ministry. Gather around the manger with loved ones and experience the first Christmas through the eyes of Mary and Joseph. Follow the young couple as they take the long road to Bethlehem and prepare for Jesus' birth. Plus enjoy an extraordinary lineup of musicians performing both new and classic Christmas songs from the set of The Chosen, such as Phil Wickham, Brandon Lake, Maverick City Music, Cain and many others. Thank you for your generosity that makes the ministry of Cornerstone Television possible. Request your Christmas with The Chosen DVD when you give this month. Call 888-665-4483 or give online at ctvn.org slash donate. From all of us here, we wish you a very Merry Christmas. We all know we should pray, right? I mean, it'll be good for us. It'll help us be more grounded, more connected to God. But you know what I'm gonna say next in our hurried lives, slowing down to pray can feel like a cosmic waste of time to our prayers even matter. What if anything happens when we pray? Are we having Words with God or just Words with Ourself? Well, joining us now is Addison Vavir with the book, Words with God. He's the CEO of Messenger International, a discipleship organization that impacts millions of people. Addison, welcome to Hope Today. Thank you, Tom. It's good to be on here with y'all. Well, I have to tell you, this is hitting right at the heart of where I think a lot of us are when we pray. You know, I've got my prayer list. I've got things I've written down there, things I pray for all the time, things that are current. You know, and it can seem like a chore to go through that or to pray to God, take times. Why is prayer like that? And what has God shown you about that whole process? Yeah. Well, when I dove into this and I started working on this book and having conversations with different people, I realized that a lot of people's experience with prayer was very similar to my own. I constantly felt like I was missing it when it came to prayer. I never felt like I was doing it right or I was doing it enough. And as I've told people, I find that virtually everyone brings some sense of shame or guilt or condemnation into their prayer life. They begin their times of prayer, feeling like they haven't prayed enough, that they aren't worthy to enter into this conversation with God, to engage with Him. And so they struggle to have words with God. And the book has, the title of the book has that dual meaning, words with God. How do we actually have words with God? Is there a right ways or a right method? And also, how do we have words with God when we're frustrated with what prayer is and how it's worked in our life and our understanding of prayer? And so I tackled both of those questions in this book and I have found that in that practice, everything meaningful in life converges at the intersection of prayer. It's not just this place of transaction. It's not a formula for us to figure out. It's actually the most intimate place of transformation. So that's a bit of the journey. And I have found that as I've talked to people, when I reframe what prayer is, they start to see that so much of their life belongs to prayer and is a part of prayer. And that changes how they engage with God. Yeah, you know, I think all of us have said, okay, he knows what I need. He even says he knows what I need before we ask. Why do I have to go to prayer in him? But you've already touched on that briefly that it's a transformative time, the most transformative time. Could you speak a little more deeply into that? Yeah, absolutely. Again, we have this idea of prayer as a transaction. It's another thing on the list, but I argue, even if we're talking about spiritual disciplines, I would say that prayer is the discipline that infuses all of them. I don't think it belongs in its own category apart from the other spiritual disciplines. I think it is the life force that we bring into every part of our lives. This is why Paul says things in 1st Thessalonians 5 Romans 12, like pray without ceasing. So if prayer is something that we're to do without ceasing, then obviously our idea of prayer has to be fundamentally flawed when we reduce it to just something that we do when we go to God and we ask for things. But for a lot of us, we measure the effectiveness of our prayers on this basis. I asked God for something in prayer and he responded the way I wanted him to or believed he should. And so prayer works. And the truth is, and we see this all through our scripture, we see this promise that God is a good God and he responds to us in prayer based on what is best for us, based on what we need. And we see this amazing promise in scripture that if we ask for bread, he's not going to give us a stone. Well, the converse is also true. If we think we're asked for bread or we're actually asking for a stone, he prepares us and teaches us what it is to ask for bread so we can learn what it is to receive from him what is highest and best. Addison, one thing that I very much appreciated about your book was your talk about disappointment with God when there are prayers that are unanswered, even the hard feeling of feeling betrayed by God. Can you share a bit of your personal experience with those feelings and what do we do when we hit those feelings? Yeah, absolutely. And I talk about this in the book, but I went through a period of five years where I navigated insomnia and anxiety, specifically in the evening. I would struggle to sleep. A good night of sleep for me was three, four hours. And I was doing everything I knew to do. I was checking all the boxes, if you will, but it seemed like God was completely checked out in my life. It felt like the tangible presence of God, His goodness, His faithfulness, the evidence of His goodness and His faithfulness was nowhere to be seen in my life. And I learned in that season something so profound that we can't really know how faithful and how good God is until life has given us a reason to doubt His faithfulness. And I learned also in that season that peace isn't having all of the answers. I wanted to have all of the answers, and I would trade this peace at night, which the night actually belongs to God. It's the first movement of the day, and it's a time of rest and trust. And I was trading that time to get some grasp of control in my life. And through that journey, I found some powerful prayers. One in particular, Psalm 22, where Jesus borrows these words. He borrows these words from David on the cross. And he says, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? And I learned something in this season. When we get real with God, God has a way of becoming real to us. And I love how a part of the human experience that every single one of us has to navigate, Jesus modeled on the cross. And that is the belief. Every single person has to navigate this. And I believe it is the greatest temptation that we have to go through, that we have to navigate the belief that God has abandoned us. And in that journey of navigating that belief, we let go of these old ideas of God and prayer and life and purpose that put us in control, that make us the captains of our faith. We trade that and we discover a relationship, a promise, a goodness, a presence of God that energizes and infuses our life in every season, regardless of what we go through. Because if you look at Psalm 22, later the Psalmist says, you do not abandon the affliction and they're afflicted, nor do you turn your face from them. And so when we move through that, it's almost like a rite of passage. We think that God is rejecting us, the silence, the disorientation, the disillusionment that we move through. We think it's a rejection, but it's awesome. It's actually an invitation to rediscover God as He is to let go of those parts of us that we think are ugly and scary and that God doesn't want to move in and move through, to let go of those and invite Him in every part of our fear of anxiety, of our concern, of our disorientation and see how He meets us in those moments. I love that. I love the transformative power of getting to know God. Let's talk about that a little bit, because you spend a part of the time in the book talking about how we see God. You know, the Bible talks about us seeing through a glass of darkly, and I feel that way sometimes, where I'm kind of like trying to see God how He really is. What has God shown you about seeing Him the way He is? Yeah, well, we think very highly of our sight, right? People say, if I see it, then I'll believe it. And that's understandable, but when we even think about how vision works, all of us see the world through distorted lens. We do. Like, I think of people like my dad, who's colorblind, right? Like, he doesn't see the world as it is. He sees the world as He is. So, he's engaging with the world as He is, not engaging with the world as it is. And that is such a powerful truth for us to believe and receive. And if you look at Scripture, there's so much in Scripture about the mind being renewed, about the eyes of our understanding. And this became so real for me. When I had cataract surgery, when I was around 30 years old, I had cataract surgery, and I was bored with the cataract. So, my entire life, I saw the world through a fog lens. And when I was 30, they cut out the lens and they put in a new lens. And I went through multiple procedures. There were some complications. And after four procedures, the world still looked the same. When I looked through my right eye, the world still looked like it was behind a fog. And I was sitting with the doctor, with the surgeon. I'm like, doctor, what's going on? Like, I've had four procedures. Why does it still look like I'm viewing the world through a fog lens? And he told me, he said, Addison, I can't make your lens any clearer than what it is. Your brain is still convinced that you're seeing the world through a fog. And so, that humbled me in that moment where I was like, oh, my goodness. Wow, prayer, so much about what prayer is, is changing the way we see and engage with the world, which transforms us, which allows us to see and engage with the world differently. And there's, again, there's so much in Scripture about that, but we have to first acknowledge the fact that we don't see everything as it is. And that positions us in a place of humility, to receive grace, and grace is the power to see things differently, to feel things differently, to do things differently, because it's a gift from God. It's the infusion of the divine. And when we receive that, then we start to see the things that we previously couldn't see and do the things that we previously couldn't do. This is such a powerful concept, because naturally, as humans, we are so selfish and we have to deal with pride every single day. And we, you talk in your book about how we build our own kingdoms and how we need to, you said about, we get so comfortable with our own kingdoms and forget what God's kingdom is all about. Can you unpack that? Yeah, I mean, we live in a world of platform and kingdom and empire, whatever language you want to use. And so it's tempting to build our kingdoms to validate ourselves, to validate our positions. And the reality is the way of Jesus and the model of prayer, like Jesus is the king of kings, because his model of leadership empowers and enables many kings, many queens. I mean, it's a beautiful model of leadership. I love the poem in Philippians too, where it talks about how he, as the greatest, stooped the lowest, and by doing so, he has elevated sons and daughters, fellow brothers and sisters to be partakers of his kingdom, to understand the ways of his kingdom. But this is accessed in the place of prayer and what I would call like complete prayer, immersive prayer, or integrative prayer. And the truth is we, so many of us, we think we're only building his kingdom or building for the kingdom when we're at church on Sunday or Bible study or when we're reading the Bible in the morning or whatever, the kingdom practice or religious practice may hold. But the great news of Scripture and the kingdom of God is that this kingdom is flooding into every part of our lives. And that's where there's power. That's where there's meaning. It's in the mundane. It's in the everyday. And that's why prayer has to move outside of the closet, if you will. Yes, it belongs in the closet, but also to move outside of the closet into every part of our lives, because that's where we do life. That's where the spirit of God is waiting to reveal things to us about ourselves, about others, about purpose that reveal the reality of his kingdom. And if we look at the metanarrative of Scripture, the story that the Scripture is telling, it's not the story about how we die one day and go to heaven and be with God. It's actually a story of how God comes to dwell with us and to make our home, our lives, and ultimately this earth, his habitation. And that's an amazing promise in manual God with us. So when we embrace this reality of the kingdom, this idea of the kingdom, we start to see how every single part of our lives, even the most mundane parts of our lives, is full of purpose and opportunity. So, Addison, what's it been like for you? What is prayer like now? Now that you've written a book, you've had a Lord download a lot of wisdom and I highly recommend the book, Words with God. But what's it been like for you now in that prayer relationship? Yeah, I mean prayer has honestly, so much of my life I view as a prayer now. And that's been the most transformative part of this. I think we make the mistake of reducing prayer to just a small part of what prayer is. Because there is a transactional component to prayer, where we ask for thanks, we receive things, and that energizes our prayer life to be certain. But there's a robustness to prayer, that as I was saying, belongs in the nooks and the crannies of our lives. And it's not us moving our mouths, it's us being quiet and sensitive and practicing rest. Even if you look at 1 Thessalonians 517, where Paul makes a statement of prayer without ceasing, y'all hear that, you're probably like, that sounds like a terrible chore. Like how in the world do I pray without ceasing? I can't do anything without ceasing. Well, it's actually a posture of rest. Pray without ceasing can be translated, pray from this place of constant rest, of hearing, of receiving. So we can be delivered from the frantic inaction that defines our day, where people are running to and fro. They always feel like they're behind. They never feel like they have the right answers. They never feel like they're good enough. And if you look at what the writer of Hebrews says about prayer and connection with God, so much of what it takes to connect with God is actually confidence and assurance that we belong in that place of prayer, that God wants to speak to us, that God wants to give us good things, that God is going to transform our lives even in the midst of suffering and pain, there is promise, there is goodness. And when we start to understand that, we see more of our lives as a territory of prayer. And I would say that's been the most transformative part of my journey is seeing more and more of my life as belonging to prayer. And I had a pastor reach out to me after he read this book and he had been pastoring for 20 years. And he said, I've read so many books on prayer. He said, I've never read a book that made me feel better about my prayer life, like that I'm actually doing more than I realize I'm doing while at the same time challenged me to pray more than I ever thought was possible. And I've had people reach out to me in their 60s, 70s, 80s telling me like, I've been following Jesus for 40 to 50 years. I've never understood this whole prayer thing. I've tried, I've read the books that offer the formulas, nothing worked. Now I'm reading this and I understand what it is to walk with God, to have prayer become a way of life and not just another thing on the list, but the thing that energizes the whole list. And that has been my passion with this because I do believe we're all to embrace prayer as a way of life and not just another thing to do. Yeah, I love it when in the book you say, if communion is available to us, let's not be satisfied with communication. And I love that. Would you pray for our viewers right now, those that are watching and say, boy, this sounds good. I would love to know God this way. Would you just pray for those that are watching? Absolutely. God, I thank you that when it comes to prayer, you are the hero of prayer. We don't have to be the hero because we don't have to be the hero. We're not the villain. We get to be a participant. And so God, right now we say, hey, we open our lives to you, to your grace, to your spirit, to your work. We repent, Lord, for making prayer another work of the flesh. We want our prayers to be energized by your spirit. We ask God that you would take domain of every part of our lives, that you would help us and teach us the rhythms of rest and silence so that we can hear that still small voice so that we can unlearn the voice of the accuser and we can recognize how you speak to us and those tender moments of our lives and those everyday moments of our lives. Spirit of God, I pray that those places of condemnation and guilt and shame, I pray that you would shed your light on those places in us, God. Those places that we've tried to hide from you, I pray that we would realize that those are the points of a connection, of an intimacy, of a promise, of a knowing that we never thought was possible. I pray, God, that you would give every single person listening to the sound of my voice. I pray that you would give them the boldness and the tenacity and the audacity to cry out to you in prayer, to ask for the impossible, to seek you in every place that you can be found, and to know that you are a good God who desires to meet them in every moment of their day. In Jesus' name, amen. Amen. The book is called Words With God, Trading Boring Empty Prayer for Real Connection, Addison Bevere. Thank you so much for being with us today. Thank you, Tom. Thank you, Anna. It's great being with you all. What a powerful conversation with Addison Bevere about prayer. And I would imagine that something in there stuck with your heart. And so we want to just continue to unpack talking about prayer. What does the Bible say about prayer? And so our scripture today comes from Romans 8, 26, and 27. And it says this, And the Holy Spirit helps us in our weakness. For example, we don't know what God wants us to pray for, but the Holy Spirit prays for us with groanings that cannot be expressed in words. And the Father who knows all hearts knows what the Spirit is saying for the Spirit pleads for us believers in harmony with God's own will. You know, I was thinking about this scripture as just preparing for the show today. And the words from this scripture that I love so much is groaning. Like it talks about groanings. And just thinking about those of you at home who are, your spirit is in anguish. Like your soul is in anguish. And you understand that word groaning where you just sit in the presence of God and you just feel like you're groaning before Him and you don't know what to pray. Maybe you feel like you've prayed out all your words. You've prayed out everything that you can think of. And yet the circumstances of life are staying the same. Know that in those dark moments in that deep anguish of soul that the Holy Spirit is pleading for you on your behalf, pleading to the Father to come and to comfort you and give you exactly what you need. And Tom, I was just, I was thinking about how Addison said oftentimes we don't see the world like God sees the world. We see the world as we are. And so that time in prayer when we're just sitting in God's presence it allows the Holy Spirit to work in us, God to work in us to change our perspective. I think it's very common that we would just see through our own eyes when we really need to see through God's eyes. It's such an important part. But I want to pick up on that word groaning as well, Anna. And that is that I don't know when the last time you groaned was. It's something that requires your entire body. Groaning is not like, it's not an owie. Groaning is your whole body just under the weight of something. It can be a physical thing. It can be an emotional thing. It can be a spiritual thing. But it's requiring everything of us. And I think that is a key word for us. You know, when I used to early in my life I thought that maybe this was speaking of like speaking in tongues or something, groaning is too deep for words. I don't think so, even though I believe in that gift to believe that that's part of a Christian's life today. But it's something beyond that. It's something else. It's something of our entire being just throwing ourselves down and saying, God, I can't do anything here. I can't do anything. I need you. I need to see, help me to see the situation as you see it, but be the person and the strength that I need. In fact, I want to read that a little bit of that same verse out of the Passion translation. It says, And in a similar way, the Holy Spirit takes hold of us in our human frailty to empower us in our weakness. The Kingdom of Heaven is built upside down, Anna. It's when we are weak, he is strong. We're strong when we're weak because it's his strength. Yeah. You know, I was an illustration that came to mind was just how when a person is... So I sat with this young woman very recently and she went through just a very heartbreaking situation and she was groaning. And you know what she did? She went to her father and she just sat in her father's presence and you know what he did? He's wrapped his arms around her and he wept over her because he had such compassion for her suffering, such compassion for her anguish of heart. And I just picture our God is like that, where in your deepest suffering, your God wraps his arms around you, your heavenly father and he weeps when you weep. His compassion never fails. It is so great and it covers over you. And today I just, I want you to know that God wants to show himself to you even when maybe you feel like he's not listening, like you're not seeing answers to your prayers, you know, our feelings shift and change, but God never changes. And so this day, remember that God is good, that God loves you fiercely, that in your waiting, in your confusion, in your darkness, God is working and he promises to work all things for your good and for his glory. Prayer, no matter how you're feeling, he just invites you to come into his throne of grace, into his presence, where he can empower you, lift you up, make you strong and set you on the path for his glory.