 It's time for the Laun Jean Chronoscope, a television journal of the important issues of the hour, brought to you every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. A presentation of the Laun Jean Wittner Watch Company, maker of Laun Jean, the world's most honored watch, and Wittner, distinguished companion to the world-honored Laun Jean. Good evening. This is Frank Knight. May I introduce our co-editors for this edition of the Laun Jean Chronoscope? Mr. William Bradford Huey, editor of the American Mercury, and Mr. Henry Haslitz, contributing editor of Newsweek Magazine. Our distinguished guest for this evening is Mr. T. Lamar Cordell, former Assistant United States Attorney General. Well, Mr. Cordell, now that you are back in private life and done with being a bureaucrat, perhaps you can tell us something about the pressures that were brought on you when you were Assistant Attorney General. What kind of pressures are they? Well, Mr. Haslitz, the pressures were, I would say, in the third dimension, if you can understand that. But they came largely from the Senators and the Congressmen, almost continuously from the prominent men in public life that were over on the hill. They come in the form of telephone calls or visits or what? Well, the greater number of communications, of course, were over the telephone, but there were many, many conferences that were had with Senators and Congressmen in my office. And if the Senator happened to be a little older, and so busy, I would accommodate the gentleman to go to his office. What would be a typical request? A typical request? Well... Would tax cases, for example, be involved? Oh, yes. When I was in the Tax Division, tax case would be involved. I remember one who's troubled me a great deal, most of whom were very beloved, one of the most beloved men in America. I sure do love him, and I have called him so many times that with the Vice President, when they called me about, an old friend of his, Danny Louisville. You wanted to favor from me, sir? Well, sir, he was concerned about the illness of this fellow, and I told him that everybody who came to see me about tax cases was sick or something, they were sick, something was wrong with them. And I told him that the doctors and the government doctors felt that the ordeal of a trial would not result in the gentleman's death, and there was no other alternative but to go ahead with your unpleasant duty. Well, now, Mr. Cartel, to identify you a little further for our viewers, of course, you're this man from North Carolina, I believe. Yes, I'm from North Carolina. And then, for about four years, you were in the Tax Division of the Department of Justice. That's right. And you had the authority to either prosecute a tax case or else to settle it. Yes, sir. And that's what brought you under all these pressures. But unfortunately, you can't delegate this power to another unless in your absence. And you would really have to stand that up. Then all these committees got after you, and then the president himself hauled off and fired you, didn't he? Yes, sir. He really broke loose on me. He should have. I thought that Truman had a reputation of sticking by everybody. All his good friends, you were one of his good friends. I sure thought so. I tell you, he booked the legend, though, when he locked me out. What makes, what's your theory as to why the president singled you out and gave you the boot in such a fashion? Well, it would take too long to go into my theories. Our viewers, of course, know you as one of these make men. Your wife at least got out of Washington with a make coat. Well, she got out of what it was paid for. That was one of the things she paid for it. I have to the last part, though. And where did that make coat have anything to do with it? I don't much believe it. I don't believe it did. Mrs. Truman has a make coat. And I reckon a mother who has long one for so long, and she argued that it will last for 10 years, just renovate, to be renovated just once a year, that it was all right. I told her it was starting to get me into trouble as she bought it. What specifically were you charged with whenever you were fired? Well, outside activities. I've been trying to find out, Mr. Huey, what the outside activities were. Is that just me doing favors for your friends? I don't know. It's one of those things that the president did not tell the attorney gentlemen, Mr. McGrath, I tried to find out. I've been trying to find out what these outside activities were. Well, Mr. Cornel, you were... I really don't know. At the end of one of the committee hearings, the chairman of a subcommittee, Congressman King, a year ago, asserted that you had been a recurring to your trust and had done irreparable damage to the government. Now, what is your comment on that statement? He said I had done a disservice to my government. And I say to you, Mr. Hazard, when Chairman Cecil King made that remark, he did a disservice to his government and he did a disservice to the honorable people in that tax division. How many? I didn't like that statement either. How many tax cases? In the four years you were in this tax position, sir. How many cases would you estimate that you handled? Approximately 16,000 civil cases. Probably 45% were compromised and settled and approximately 2,500 income tax fraud cases. I see. Now, these cases, I'd like you to tell our viewers you get calls from members of Congress during this period very often, didn't you? Oh, yes, sir. And those members of Congress, they wanted you to favorably consider their constituents, I assume. Yes, sir, they had... That's part of the system, isn't it? Oh, yes. They were... They were... They were... A strong representation had been made to these gentlemen. They were honorable in all of their relations with me. They were... Some were very much convinced that I was about to do an injustice by indicting someone. And, of course, I would try to convince the congressman that I had no other alternative because the facts were so strong that it just had to be done. Well, I'd like to take up one specific case. Let's take the case of the Kansas City vote frauds. All right. Now, you were in on that for a while. That's right. Were you called in by anybody or did you step in by yourself? Most of the Kansas City investigation stemmed from a good many calls that we received in the way of complaints from individuals out in the congressional district that Congressman Axtel and Congressman Sloan... Now, this was in 1946. Yes, so that was when I was in charge of... And Congressman Axtel was the congressman that the Democratic candidate, the President Truman, favored. Yes. And it was argued that fraud was used to elect him over his Democratic opponent. That was the case. Yes, so that was the case. The president... A lot of to-do was done about it in Kansas City. Oh, yes. And then it came to your attention. Is that what happened? That's right, that's right. Now, sir, just by way of information, how does a man who's been district attorney down in North Carolina, how does he get a position such as you occupied in Washington? Some senator bring you there? No, sir. No senator had anything to do with my going to Washington. Mr. Clark told me that when I took over the office as United States attorney, it had the lowest rating in the United States and when he wanted one to fill the vacancy that he had created by accepting the attorney generalship of the country. He said that because of the splendid record which I had made, he had taught with the president and they had decided to extend the invitation to me. And that was why I came to Washington and neither Senator Hoy who was senator then or Senator Bailey. I believe Senator Bailey, neither one of the gentlemen knew about the invitation to come and of course Mr. Clark told me he went to see them personally. And after you get such a position where you have the decision over many dollars, millions of dollars in tax cases, all of these calls that you get from the White House, from members of Congress, that's inherent in our system, isn't it? Yes, sir. It is a very, very normal thing that one who has to make the decision, he has to face it. That's a salty. I'd like to get back to this specific case that we took up because I think we have to clarify the whole situation if we went into something like let's say the Kansas City vote case. Now, you were called in on that and you stayed in for a while and then you were taken off it. Well, what happened, Mr. Hazard, was that the preliminary investigation, this preliminary investigation has become quite a famous memorandum. The FBI had completed its preliminary investigation embracing all the Kansas City cases. Yes, so the Kansas City case, embracing the investigation of the Kansas City Star. They had 15 investigators and there were 8,000 people interviewed and out of that number, 1354 affidavits were taken and that was a part of the preliminary investigation that were reported to me by the FBI. Of course, we analyzed these things. You turned it over to the FBI. We asked them to investigate. We asked them to make a preliminary investigation so to determine because we knew if we had a full investigation it would cost a staggering sum of money because it would cost almost $300,000. Did the President call you off that investigation or was it through his orders that you were called off? Oh, no, no, no. No, sir. I was... I never received any communication from the White House from any source and we all really believed that the facts were not sufficient to warrant a further investigation because we could not find where there was any evidence that two or more people conspired together to deprive someone of a right to vote. Mr. Cardell, one of the important things to you, I believe, is that in the last two or three weeks you've undergone extensive investigation and watched it by the CHELF committee after which Mr. CHELF more or less rendered this judgment in which he said that you were a, quote, an honest man who was indiscreet in his associations and a pliant conformer to the peculiar moral climate of Washington. Now, is that a fair description of your experience, sir? Well, I know that the chairman and Mr. Keating was right when they said to the American people that I was an honest man. I have no disagreement there at all and I know they're right. Now, they spoke of the peculiar moral climate of Washington. Is it peculiar? Well, it is the most peculiar... I think they were right there. It's the most peculiar moral climate you'll find in any city in the world. Everybody who gets off at Union Station, bus or when he parks his car or comes in from the National Airport, he goes to Washington for something and he's disappointed if he does not take it home with him. I see. Well, I'm sure that our viewers have very much appreciated these frank statements from you tonight, sir, and thank you for being with us. The opinions that you've heard our speakers express tonight are entirely their own. The editorial board for this edition of the launching chronoscope was Mr. William Bradford Huey and Mr. Henry Haslett. Our distinguished guest was Mr. T. Lamar Cordell, former Assistant United States Attorney General. A watchmaker such as Lorne Jean recalls that Christopher Columbus made his great voyages before the watch was invented. His only timepiece an hourglass, like this 15th century one which happens to be the property of the Hayden Planetarium. This, of course, had to be reversed every half hour. Now, Columbus Day marks a milestone for Lorne Jean watches too because this gold medal was presented to Lorne Jean at the St. Louis Columbian exhibition which honored the 400th anniversary of Columbus's discovery of America. Now, consider how consistently Lorne Jean watches have maintained their leadership over the years. Lorne Jean is the only watch in history to win 10 World's Fair Grand Prizes, 28 gold medals and literally thousands of awards for accuracy from great government observatories. Today's Lorne Jean watches are our finest, distinguished for exclusive styling, endowed with those traditional qualities of accuracy and long life for which Lorne Jean watches are world-honored. Truly, throughout the world, no other name on a watch means so much as Lorne Jean. Lorne Jean, the world's most honored watch, premier product of the Lorne Jean Wittner Watch Company since 1866, maker of watches of the highest character. We invite you to join us every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday evening at this same time for the Lorne Jean Chronoscope, a television journal of the important issues of the hour, broadcast on behalf of Lorne Jean, the world's most honored watch and Wittner, distinguished companion to the world-honored Lorne Jean. This is Frank Knight, reminding you that on Election Day, you're the most important person in the country. So exercise your privilege as an American citizen and vote for the candidate of your choice. Now Tuesday nights, leave a tellery on the CBS television network.