 Today, we've got two things to show you, two different women who are accused of murder. Greg, why don't you tell us about the videos we're going to watch? So accused of murder in different ways. Number one is the wife of Jared Breideman, who was a Microsoft executive who was part of a plot to kill somebody. So she is part of a conspiracy to commit murder. And then the second is the poisoning by mushroom of people in Australia. So they're accused of murder in different ways. Number one. The only reason that we have them both together is this was a request by a few thousand people last week on our live show. Because you are a brand new bakery at the beach and I've tried your cookies and they are to die for. So tell us about what's going on. Thank you. I am a home-based bakery. I work under cottage law and it initially started off as a hobby and something that I hoped would pay for itself and it turned into a business and I couldn't be happier about it. This has been my passion since I was a child and it's allowed me to be flexible with my hours so I could be with my kids more. And that was really the goal. I am a custom bakery so I do anything and everything that people ask me to or can come up with that's within my skill set or wheelhouse. Greg, what do you got? This is one of those examples. We always talk about we're looking for your baseline in the situation, not when you're eating Cheetos. This is her baseline eating Cheetos. This has nothing to do with her being accused of murder, with being asked about a murder. This has to do with her being asked about a local cottage business she runs in I forget which town. I think I thought it was Orlando. But whichever town she is talking, oh it's Jacksonville, she is talking about a business. So she's got an oversized smile, her face is all alight, her eyes are amused, she's happy. Her teeth are all exposed. She's up talking at the end of every sentence. A lot of younger people do up talk, younger than me, which is young. As they up talk, that's part of their code, the way they normally speak. She's even trying to contain a smile as we see those Zygomotor muscles and even her obicularis muscles trying to start to smile. She's trying to control it. She does some up left accessing and she describes how this thing started and what we typically associate. Now there's no absolutes. We dig with questioning to find out. But usually we think that's a visual kind of accessing memory. So she's going to tell you how this thing started. Her widened eyes in this case are an illustrator. Really hard to miss. Those giant wide eyes. And then that one-sided what we might would think is contempt. A good example of baseline here is her working through explaining something that's happening and seeing if you understand. And then she nods and compresses her lips and that's just an in summary. Great opportunity to see her Cheeto eating baseline. Scott, what do you got? All right, she's covered almost everything I was going to talk about. But yeah, we're seeing everything we should see and someone who's not being questioned about something specifically or accused of something, questioned about something they've done or accused of something they've done. And we're not seeing any grief, worry, concern, nothing like that. Everything is as it should be when someone's talking about something they've been asked just in an everyday, almost everyday situation. Obviously, she's on the news talking about this. But she says she's using cottage law. And so I was like, what is cottage law when she's making these cookies? And cottage law is it's a food law in Florida and let small business owners create and sell non-perishable food items from their house or their home without the need for a commercial kitchen or these extensive licensing situations. So that's what you did, which is Florida is trying to help entrepreneurs. And that's the way they're doing that. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, I totally agree. I think because it's cottage law, I think that's why we get home-based bakery and the look for approval from the eyebrows go up because she wants to help us all understand, look, this is a home-based company. And therefore, hey, buy from me because it's really authentic. And at the same time, look, I'm able to circumnavigate all the usual things that other businesses might be able to do. So again, just perfectly reasonable for that look for approval in this particular situation. Obviously, she's conscious of the camera here. Why wouldn't she be? She's not on the news every day. Obviously, there's slight nervousness. You know, there's some grooming there that happens. Well, why wouldn't she? She's not used to this situation. She is going to be concerned with her appearance here. Who wouldn't be who's not used to doing this every day? So she is pitching. She is selling. But of course, why wouldn't she be? She's there to pitch and sell. Look, the only one thing here, which is of more interest as well, is anything and everything she says, you know, what are you making? Anything and everything. And there's some asymmetry in the face there. I think she's a little bit unsure at that point about everything and anything. Of course, she's not making anything and everything. There's there's only specific things that she is making. She's not going to just make anything that you that you give her. So there is some uncertainty there. But but again, why wouldn't there be? She's there. She's pitching. She's want to wanting to appease her audience at the same time. She knows she can't just make anything and everything for them. But just as we would want to see in this situation, good baseline, the key would be in the next ones. Are we going to see that same pitching and selling? I don't know. Let's let's have a look. Chase, what do you got on this one? Hey, before we dive into today's deep topic, I want to share something incredible with you. Have you ever wondered how a story like maybe the woman that we're covering here in these clips gets reported differently across all these media platforms with more than 40 sources? I just looked this up in my iPad a second ago. And one thing said it was an ambush style killing. This other article says it was this indictment in front of a child just radically different from each other. And this is just one of countless examples of these stories that get different treatments based on the news source. And this brings me to ground news. Ground news is a platform that helps you see the full picture, not just what the media wants you to see. It combines news sources from around the planet and puts it at your fingertips. So you compare the coverage while reading the news and they're sponsoring today's video in the comparisons of headlines. It's like a real time study in understanding how the media manipulates on a deep level. So here's the exciting part. If you want to experience ground news for yourself, head on over to ground.news slash TVP and subscribing through our link before September 15th gets you 30 percent off unlimited access. And it's been a game changer for me. And I'm literally writing a book right now on media manipulation. So these people actually care about truth. So the link is down in the description there. And it's also in the pinned comment. And trust me, just to check it out, it's worth it just so you can see how they've done this. Yeah, this video doesn't tell me anything about her being a murderer, but it does definitely reveal a few things about her personality, whether she's eating Cheetos or Doritos. So the trick to this is that we continue to evolve a behavior profile at every possible moment when new information is available. And right here, we're seeing this up talk that Greg mentioned, which is a sociological trend that some people unconsciously adopt to fit into social networks. Secondly, we're hearing this creaky artificial voice tone. And this is called vocal fry. It's also a sociological trend that's pretty recent for our species. And you'll hear both men and women do this to fit in, but you'll never hear children do this when they're learning to speak because it's not natural at all. So we also hear her talk about being closer to her children. So all of this is ways to socially fit in, fitting into groups, being in a group, being outside of a group. And we're going to see that again. We're also might see that again in some motive that took place with the murder. So in the beginning, we hear her talk about the law that she operates under this cottage law in order to operate in the same breath as her describing the business. And I thought this was unusual. So the business name and the law that she operates under are together. Unusual. So when it comes to motivations to commit murder, men are far more likely to kill because of like dominance, disputes, financial gain, jealousy, some unplanned stuff that stems from like fights or disagreements. Women, on the other hand, are a lot more likely to kill because of personal relationships. They tend to be motivated by history of domestic abuse, defense of their children or personal or interpersonal conflicts. So it's usually people that are close to them. Men are about a thousand times more likely to kill strangers. Because you are a brand new bakery at the beach and I've tried your cookies and they are to die for. So tell us about what's going on. Thank you. I am a home base bakery. I work under cottage law and it initially started off as a hobby and something that I hoped would pay for itself. And it turned into a business and I couldn't be happier about it. This has been my passion since I was a child and it's allowed me to be flexible with my hours so I could be with my kids more. And that was really the goal. I am a custom bakery, so I do anything and everything that people ask me to or can come up with that's within my skill set or will house. I do want people to understand, you know, where I'm coming from. Almost five months after Jared Britegan was murdered in the street in front of his two year old daughter, we spoke with his ex-wife who has not commented publicly so far. Our first question, why have you stayed silent? I was asked to not talk to the media or give a public statement. But with the level of speculation, I felt that now it was necessary to to speak out. Shana Gardner revealed she was asked by Jared Britegan's widow, Kirsten, not to speak publicly, but we wanted to know how the relationship could have gotten to that point. I'm sure they you would say that we've had happy moments. I mean, we share two most beautiful children in the world. All right, Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so her pitch is very, very similar at the at the moment. I mean, you know, why, why wouldn't it be? There's there they're the same person, so pitch is very, very similar. So she doesn't seem to be under any extra stress pitch wise. Obviously, there's more negative emotions here. But why wouldn't there be? I mean, you know, it's a negative situation. For me, Chase, the vocal fry has gone up at this point. So there's slightly more vocal fry here. Vocal fry is associated with with stress in a in a cry of fear. You'll get a lot of vocal fry happening. It's important because people instinctually react to that grating vocal fry and will look in that direction. It's why we presume that some vocal fry is used in order to gain attention for what you're saying. But again, why wouldn't there be a little more vocal fry on this? It nothing seems particularly incongruent to me at this point. The word speculation, there's a hard swallow. There's a vocal click around that. But again, why wouldn't they? People are speculating her involvement. Why wouldn't there be some stress around that? Two most beautiful children, she says, and there's happiness, there's pleasure and sadness that that kind of collide together at that moment. But again, why why wouldn't there be, you know, at this point, she isn't seeming to me to be selling anything. You know, if there's if there's a murderer there or a conspirator to murder, gosh, it's it's it's it's it's well hidden at this point. If that's if that's the case. So, you know, I want to see something more to have any strong opinion on this. It looks, you know, at a surface level here, you know, pretty light and pretty good. But Chase, what do you see? What do you got on this one? Yeah, I tend to agree with most of that. And she says, I do. Here's her exact words. I think I do want people to understand, you know, where I'm coming from. So this statement is more about her side than her experience. It's about her side. I want you to understand why this might have happened to him. I want you to understand where I'm coming from. There's nothing about her experience there. It's about her side of the story. So I think this means we might need to look into this if she's involved with planning or setting things up because of something that she believes was done to her. So it's about her side so people will understand. And at the end, she says, I'm sure you would say that we've had happy moments. I mean, we share the two most beautiful children in the world. That's like a pronoun soup right there. And I thought this was an interesting line. So listen to that one again and watch her face. You also hear hesitancy here, but it's not a huge cluster of behavior that would point us in a more confident direction. I would say even though there's not much so far, we're still building this profile gradually trying to get these little data points to weigh in everything that we can. That's a quick another fact about murdering. Men are a lot more likely to kill strangers or acquaintances and women are more likely to kill intimate partners, family members or people that they're really close to. Scott, what do you got? All right. Well, you've looked at things we should be that that are there. Let's look for some of the things that should be that aren't there. Now, obviously, now in my opinion, it looks like I'd say it looks like she's been Botoxed. I don't know anything about Botox. I mean, as much as Greg knows, I mean, he's weighed into all that kind of stuff. I'm immune. I'm immune. I've been vaccinated against it. Sure. So whenever I have a question about that, I call somebody that I knew from high school, Tonya Rose Waller, and she's a licensed medical esthetician. I think that's how you say it. And she and her partner, Lindsey Bright, give me the lowdown on what's happened. So I always say what's happened in this video with what's going on with this is Botox we're looking at. And she said, yeah, this is there's a whole lot going on here. And she speaks the same language as we do, as far as what parts of the face or what and how you pronounce or how you talk about them in a technical fashion. So what we're seeing, what we're not seeing here is any engagement of the frontalis up here in the forehead, nothing in the glabella. That's right in here. The the obicularis oculi, we're not seeing anything at all in here. Now, before we were seeing some of those things, we're seeing, like Greg was talking, we're seeing some of the wrinkles that you should be seeing in the Duchenne smile here. We're not seeing that. They're a little bit wrinkled in there, but I think that's normal wrinkling. It doesn't get any better or any worse as she goes along. And there's this little section here of the chance called the mentum. And that's that's usually we'll see engagement or what we call the chin balls when that thing pushes up and it makes a little upside down use upside down smiley face right there. We're not seeing that either. So we're not seeing some of the things that we should see when someone is feeling grief or going through a grieving process, which I know she's not married to the guy and they probably hated each other. But still, you'd feel I would be on the impression. You'd feel kind of bad about that person being gone. So keeping all these things in mind, we're still seeing some little micro expressions of micro movements that give us a heads up about what might be happening with her, where she may be coming from from an emotional perspective. And when we let let's compare her overall movements to the to the currents, why current wife's movements. I think her name is Shanna. Is that this is the one we're talking about? This woman is saying, OK, I don't know if it's Shanna or Shanna. So with Shanna, we're seeing it's a it's a there's a whole lot of movement going on. She's moving around a lot. Her head moves around a lot. And we see a very short clip of the the new wife, her ex-husband's new wife. And they've got some kids as well. So we see her just briefly and we're seeing the classics of grief there. Now, this woman as well as been Botox or is used as Botox because we see something that we see similar non-movement in the spots in her face where we should be seeing some things. But it's very short. There may be some going on. You never know. They may just have showed a clip where there was nothing happening. But what we see there is her head's tilted for a little bit and tilted to the side a little bit. Quite often, you'll see that in someone who's grieving. It was actually feeling sad. We see just a hair of that every now and then in Shanna. But, well, I'll go over that when we actually come to those parts that are that stand out in that. But Shanna, comparatively, looks like a little bottlehead doll. She's got two or three, you know, shoulder shrugs going, things going up and down. She's moving around. And that's not typical for someone who is going through a grieving process or is sad, let's say. Her blink rate isn't very high. And sometimes that's quite normal for someone who's grieving. It's it's not it's usually not high at all. But I think hers is not because she's keeping an eye on this. A woman interviewer because she wants to make sure she believes her or seeing if anything she said sort of makes her wince or like that. So I think that's her brains keep an eye on her to say it, say it a little bit tighter there. The smile at the end doesn't help very much because when she when she smiles and you don't very often see a full blown smile like that. It's not a full blown smile because not everything is working properly because of the Botox, but it sure looks pretty good. It looks pretty full to me. And I'm not going to say I'm not comfortable with saying that she's tearless during this. We do see some some tears and stuff or that they go away and come back quickly because these things, even though we were under the impression they're videoed in a linear fashion, which they are, they're not presented that way. Sometimes something that's recorded down here may be scooted up here and moved around. So sometimes she's got that glassy eye, teary look, and sometimes she doesn't. So I'm not but I'm not comfortable saying there's something up with that right now. Greg, what do you got? Yeah, just a handful of things. Number one, this is a baseline. This is her baseline in this situation. Again, you saw her happy before she was enunciating and broadcasting words in a big way. She's front of mouth talking, as I always say here, that little thing where they're not actually enunciating and pushing words out, but kind of holding on to those words and you can hear it in her. And it's a different situation. So why wouldn't she? That's kind of the way you look at it. Her eyes, she starts off with her eyes down into the right, which we associate with emotional eye accessing down into her right. And her chin is kind of withdrawn. Makes me wonder what's up there? Is she sad? Is she is that shame? You see that muscle engaged a little. One of the things that Scott's talking about when a person feels sorrow, the points in the center of their brow will rise and hers don't. Now, whether it's because of Botox or she doesn't care. Different story. We can't tell that. And Chase, I love that soup of of pronouns you talk about, because she says even one more. She says, I'm sure they slash you would say we. And I think that is her trying to think as she moves along. But her chin almost disappears back when she starts to say they ask us not to speak. I don't believe that. I think that's probably they ask her not to do certain things, but speak might not have been one of them. And there's also a quick reset of her lips. Watch her and she's going one thought to the next. And she's shifts gears from something she was saying to but while the other interviewers talking, watch her mouth go and change entirely. So she's changing thoughts in there. She has some quick nodding. There's not a lot of magic here. Mark, I agree with you. I wouldn't say this woman murdered somebody. But what I would say is we see a different baseline. Now, enunciating more contained. Why wouldn't she enunciate? And there's even some sarcasm when she says, I'm sure you would say we had some happy moments. You see that little smirk. And it's not the same as the trying to figure out how to answer your question. So in the beginning, this is our baseline. We'll work from now. We'll look for some deviations. She's got a pretty expressive face. Usually, even here, it's still expressive. The island is you do want people to understand, you know, where I'm coming from almost five months after Jared Bridegain was murdered in the street in front of his two year old daughter. We spoke with his ex-wife, who has not commented publicly so far. Our first question, why have you stayed silent? I was asked to not talk to the media or give a public statement. But with the level of speculation, I felt that now it was necessary to to speak out. Shana Gardner revealed she was asked by Jared Bridegain's widow, Kirsten, not to speak publicly. But we wanted to know how the relationship could have gotten to that point. I'm sure they would say that we've had happy moments. I mean, we share two most beautiful children in the world. Anytime divorce comes into any situation, it's messy. It just is. I will say that I think that we both love our kids. Jared and Shana both wanted full custody. The court file details allegations of spying, deceit and more. In the end, Shana and Jared reached an agreement. They shared custody and whenever the children were at one parents' house, the other would come over Wednesday and have a date night. That's exactly what Jared and his twins did the night he was killed. It was actually one of the one of the things. I'm sorry. I remember my son talking to him and him saying that it was a good date night. All right, Chase, what do you got? There's an unusual facial expression or facial movement here. While she's saying, I think I'll say, I think that's what she says, we both love our kids. And this is either discussed or contempt, starting to creep on the face and the Echmonites out there will probably debate it to no end. But here's the truth. They're both not good and they're both not good to see in this context of these words here, so getting into the minutiae of micro expressions is a bottomless pit. It's good or bad. This one's bad. This is followed by some immediate mouth closure, which is not in her baseline. She keeps her lips parted. We've just seen two videos of her after she makes statements. And this helps us to start seeing a cluster of behavior instead of these individual elements that really don't mean much in isolation. And even though some people who probably don't know better will tell you that these individual tiny things can mean everything when there's no cluster there, she then moves into this kind of what I would say very clear head shake of no when she's finishing the statement about them, both loving the kids and let's talk about crying really quick. We see at the end here, I want to show you how this might be artificially acted and we have an actor over here who's probably going to dig into that even more, even though you're seeing her eyes get wet, the tears might be real, but they might be for the kids. They might be for what the kids are going through. So when someone's overcome with emotion, the eyes fill a lot faster. Women, especially, are far more likely to wipe tears immediately in these interviews. This is from my experience, unless they're wanting the tears to be seen by somebody. And there's also a little drainage hole right down here in the bottom of your eye that sends tears down into the nasal cavity and causes the sniffling sound that you hear in people when they're crying. There's a lack of physiological signs like redness or swelling that we get when we cry genuinely for grief. There's also a lack of genuine facial expression that would go along with these tears, and that's all I got, Greg. Yeah, one thing that women cry from that men don't cry as frequently from and it doesn't engage a lot of that is frustration. Remember that as we watch this. And so I'm going to walk through a handful of things that she does that are interesting to me. There's that half-sided smile of trying to explain that she used in her other baseline and her voice changes when she says that things get messy. I think we see anger. I think we see micro, but I think we see anger when she says we both love our kids, she slows and when she does, her brow drops down. Her upper teeth are exposed, her canines are showing. Her lower teeth is her lip drops, and then she purses her lips. I think we're talking about the crux of the entire case right here. And then she's got a halting cadence as she thinks about what she's doing. And a half-sided face that she's used that one time before is not the same as the half-sided face after that. So I think we're seeing contempt follow that. That's a lot of movement to see brow down, upper lip, expose the upper teeth, lower lip, expose, purse lips, and then a half-sided. That's a lot of stuff. To me, I think we got a weird mix of genuine emotion, likely at the thought of her kids to your point, Chase, and the frustration with trying to deal with it, along with some contempt and hidden anger. I think here's the crux and we're seeing it. If we right there at the end, you'll also see that there's that twist of her face again, and she pulls to the center and that brow dips again. There's a whole lot going on here, considering what she's talking about. Is that enough to make her kill somebody? Don't know. Let's play it out. Mark, what do you think? Yeah, so the acting technique that you're talking about there, Chase, is often called substitution, which is where you take some of an event, usually real, that has happened in your personal life, which will trigger feelings in you and you substitute that event while you're in the situation that is the acting situation. And it works very, very well, works very, very well. I would say there's enough going on here in terms of how glassy those eyes are, the fluid nature of that feeling that it kind of it moves at the right speed for me. It ebbs in, it ebbs out that there is, I think, as Greg was saying, there a real feeling going on there, some real. Now, what what is evoking that feeling? I have no idea. I'm not a mind reader. None of us are here. It's very difficult to, with just action, create that sense of feeling to kind of do all the work with your face only or, you know, think yourself into crying. So this is good substitution or really good acting or an absolute real feeling. You know, I think it's I think it's real. What's happening there is good enough for me. Very hard, I think, to fake that feeling. Though what the feeling is about, I don't know. I don't know. Now, also, there's another good performance measure here, which is she doesn't shade or hide her eyes. She doesn't try and cover the feeling. She doesn't close her eyes on it. So she displays it for us. Now, we could go, is that because it's absolutely real and she's lost a sense of how she looks in front of the public and she doesn't mind that that, you know, this feeling is there. Or does she know that she needs to play this to the public? I don't know which one it is, but as a good performance, you're always looking for the performer to show the audience what's happening. If the audience can't see it, it's no good. It's got to be lit. So you've got to be facing the audience. They have to be able to see your face and your eyes and all of you. And what bad actors will tend to do is if they're having a feeling, they'll start to hide it from the audience, either because they're not used to showing the audience real feelings. It's vulnerable for them or they fear they're not acting very well. And therefore, they'll hide that. I think we'll see a bit of that in the next person that we're going to see later on in our in our video. So look, I think the emotions are good, but they could be substitution, as you're well saying, but I think they're good and I think they're performed well, either because they're really true or because she knows she has to perform something at this point, not knowing that she's, you know, was arrested recently and up for murder. You know, I wouldn't be initially going, hey, you know, that's clearly somebody performing an emotion. It's all pretty good. So you have to come up for me. We're going to have to come up with something else that's kind of kind of nail the coffin lid down and go, OK, I can see for sure. We're looking for my money for more things to converge. I think we may get them, though. Scott, what do you got on this one? All right, now we're actually seeing some movement in that momentum down there in the bottom part of the chin, because I hear what you guys are saying, but I think she actually is feeling an emotion there, but I think it's she's worried. I think she's like, oh, my gosh, so much is going on. They started to think it's me. So I think I think that's what she's worried about. And that's the emotion we're seeing in there as she's trying to control it. And I know she's bow talks at the wazoo, but still we're seeing that moving in there, especially on her, be her left side. Then something that nobody mentioned, I thought, well, I'll have to mark this off because somebody will get it and I'll have to get rid of it, which has a nostril flair after she says the word messy. So when you go back to this video, watch this time when she says gets a bit messy. Watch that, what's her left nostril? Because, man, it gets big and she takes in a deep breath there. Now, I'd say her obviously her marriage was a little bit more than messy. Her divorce was because she's talking about divorce. Divorces are always messy. No, they're not. They're not always messy. Sometimes we want to get this one to get divorced. That's not a big mess. But in her case, she's even promoing how they get messy. And it's just in case the the dial starts down towards her to be the person who's accused of this. And even though she's bow talks really hard on this, we're still, we get to see that that movement in the the nasal wings and the alar flair and right in there a little bit. And I think we're actually seeing anger when she says messy as well right after that. So I think I think she's so angry, even though it's a micro expression. I think I think she's really that that is drumming up a bunch of anger for her. They must not have gotten along at all there toward the end, because obviously she, you know, if she did have him killed, I don't know if she's been guilty yet and I don't think so. But let's say she had him, you know, as part of this, you know, that would make sense if she's that mad because she looks like she's holding back, trying to hold back that anger. I don't think she's aware that she's showing a lot of these things. The island is huge. Any time divorce comes into any situation, it's messy. It just is. I will say that I think that we both love our kids. Jared and Shanna both wanted full custody. The court file details allegations of spying, deceit and more. In the end, Shanna and Jared reached an agreement. They shared custody and whenever the children were at one parent's house, the other would come over Wednesday and have a date night. That's exactly what Jared and his twins did the night he was killed. It was actually one of the things. I'm sorry. I remember my son talking to him and him saying that it was a good date night. Jared got out of his car to move it and was shot dead. His two-year-old daughter sat in the car, strapped into her car seat alone for three minutes before someone came to help. I was shocked. I failed at the floor because I was devastated for what I was going to have to tell my kids. Jared died in that street, leaving behind four children and a heartbroken family. They were, I think, in shock. Later in a blog post, Shanna's mother said she was not invited to the funeral. I asked Shanna about the situation. His family did not invite me or want me there. But the day before a vigil hosted by Jared's widow at Celebration Park, Shanna was photographed at the park with her kids by the tabloid Daily Mail. Talk about a violation of privacy because my kids know that they were photographed and they were worried. Hi, Greg, what do you got? I'm shocked, shocked, I tell you. That's about the emotion I heard from her. I'm shocked. And then right after that, what she's prepared is I'm shocked. She does an um. We don't hear um from her anywhere else. Let me talk to you about any time that you go through something traumatic. I mean, even if you don't like your ex-husband, he's been killed on the way home from your house. It's still going to be seared in your memory. It isn't in hers. There's an um in a draw breath and hard eye contact until the person doesn't respond. When you describe a trauma, that's not how it works. I'm just not going to spend a lot of time on it. We'll just stop there and I'll do two last things. So you don't take any time to conjure up thoughts about what happened when that happened. If somebody died in your life, usually know where you're at. If they mattered at all. And then her emotion is moving across her face like Amber heard. I think this is about her and why she feels anything is what I think. Scott, what do you got? All right. After she says fell to the floor, we see classic micro expression of contempt. And it's really hard to miss. And I know she's got a lot of Botox in there. So she must have a lot of contempt for this guy because it show when you go back to check it out happens on her left. Yes, I'll be right in there. Watch how that watch how that goes off goes up when she says fell to the floor. And then I feel like I think it would have been a lot bigger if you hadn't been Botox, but I think that's how committed she is emotionally to what to what happened. That's why it is so big, I think. And then until my kids, there's a micro expression of anger. I think you just said that, Greg, I'm seeing that as well. Did you say that or was that earlier? Last time, last time. Okay. Um, yeah. So that and that's really big. And I think she's talked herself into believing it's his fault that he brought this on himself. That's just a gut feeling. I don't know why I'm thinking that, but that's what that's the way I feel about that part. And then, um, now if she talks about the family, not wanting her at the memorial to show up over there, that's when we see that head tilt. I was talking about earlier where the head tilts and her head comes forward a little bit. I think that hurt her feelings if she has any. So I think that kind of bummed her out. She can go, go be part of that. I'm not saying she's a narcissist. I'm not saying she's, she's not, I can't tell if she's a psychopath or anything. But I think we would see that if we were looking at a narcissistic situation, which she may, she may be, I don't know. But that made me go, you know what, it's all about her at this point, or she's trying to turn it toward her. Um, and that's why she's taking that position of poor pitiful me as we're going through this. Mark, what do you got? Yeah. So certainly now the contempt is stacking up. If we, if we think about, you know, everything that everybody said over this time, we've got it again. Another example of contempt that can point certainly to a personality. Anger, I think for sure we're seeing on violation of privacy, not just a little bit of anger, but we really see some wide eyes there and some whites of the eyes, which is it, you know, I'm not saying she's psychotic, but it looks psychotic. Okay. It's those psychotic, wide-eyed anger. That starts to point to me towards the possibility of a level of anger that may not be easy to control at, at times, a violation of privacy. So is this related to the spying that I heard about later on? Is there some extreme anger? I don't know who was spying on who and who, but instantly my mind goes to, I don't think we're talking about necessarily the violation of privacy around the kids. I think that might be a sublimation. There might be that you had your privacy violated and there's some extreme anger around that. That's all I got on. Oh, yeah, one last thing. I'm now starting to see a more closed posture as well. I'm starting to notice now more closed posture. That's all that chase. What are you going to miss one? Yeah, well, whatever privacy means, that must be a big deal. I think it's part of, I think it means private. You know, kind of, kind of. Yeah, private parts, private. That's my private stuff. I can't help that we invented the language, but, you know, in my day, we perfected it for you. I'm going to hit her down on one big thing here. I just want you to pay attention to this. The clip's going to come back on as soon as I'm done talking, you'll see it. She's going to say, I fell to the floor because I was devastated. Because I was devastated. Truthful people experiencing an emotionally raw recall of a memory will almost never, ever feel the need to tell you why they felt to the floor, why they cried, why they screamed, why they felt like they were going to faint. So when they express any emotion, this is about as close to 100 percent as you can get when it comes to signals of potential deception here. When somebody goes over top like this to explain why things that are totally rational happened and what we add in, what we've said, what we've seen, we've got an unusual cluster of behaviors here that are a giant red flag for sure. Let's really quickly dissect these reasons of why this is a big deal. Number one, guilty people might believe that by explaining these emotions, they can elicit empathy from other people, make them seem more human or relatable. Some people might fear that a genuine emotions like guilt or anxiety will be misinterpreted as evidence of their guilt, so they overcompensate, they over explain these reactions. I think third, they're also more concerned with how they're being perceived. And this heightens their awareness, makes them overthink their responses and then offer more information than necessary, trying to kind of steer the perception. Cognitive load increases are also a pretty big factor in this. So there's a lot of reasons there, like there's a societal norm. I know how I'm supposed to react. And then I kind of accidentally over dramatize what the societal norm is there. And I'll over explain because it wasn't genuine. So men are more likely to commit murder as part of a group or gang activity. Women are more likely to commit murder alone. But when they do collaborate and these are FBI statistics, by the way, that I'll be reading throughout this this whole YouTube video, it might be when women collaborate, it might be with a close confidant or a partner. The eye wouldn't see you. Jared got out of his car to move it and was shot dead. His two year old daughter sat in the car, strapped into her car seat alone for three minutes before someone came to help. I was shocked. I fell to the floor because I was devastated for what I was going to have to tell my kids. Jared died in that street, leaving behind four children and a heartbroken family. They were, I think, in shock. Later in a blog post, Shanna's mother said she was not invited to the funeral. I asked Shanna about the situation. His family did not invite me or want me there. But the day before a vigil hosted by Jared's widow at Celebration Park, Shanna was photographed at the park with her kids by the tabloid Daily Mail. Talk about a violation of privacy because my kids know that they were photographed and they were worried. Dude, your writing is like, it's like a font. Let me see that. My handwriting. Yeah, where'd you learn to write like that? Look, here's my writing machine. Here's my again. There's like a dentist wrote it with his feet. Did you have anything to do with Jared's murder? No, I did not have anything to do with his murder. Shanna says she has no idea if the murder was targeted or what Jared was involved in, saying they ran in different circles. But Action News Jacks reported in June, Shanna had hired criminal defense attorney, Hank Cox. He was referred to me by several friends and ultimately my kids' images and videos were being used in the media without consent. Shanna said Cox was hired to protect her kids. I asked her if she thinks she will face criminal charges. She says no, that she's cooperated with detectives. Do you have any idea who might have done this? I do not have any idea. I, as I said, we've been divorced. We don't run in the same social circles. I, all I know is that I would never want anybody to go through this. She told me if she could speak to Jared again, she'd say one thing. Honestly, that I wish it weren't like this. I wish things could have been and could be different. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so we were we were saying just outside of this good interviewer, you know, on the whole and clear question here. Really clear, simple question. And she she gives a good no on that. I did not have anything to do with it and I do not. So I'll be first in with there's a non-contraction there, which is often, you know, can stack up nicely with other signals. It's not something that we're looking to to hear from somebody, you know, being entirely honest. We'd want to I didn't or I don't. Now, look, that on its own is is is nothing. But let's see what we've got over the course of this stacking, stacking up. You know, here's one answer I would have loved to have heard. The interviewer here says she does not think she will face charges. I would like to see her reaction and her reply to do you think you'll face charges on this, we don't get to see that. I'd really like to see that one, because I think that would be. That would be interesting. Somebody who's innocent is going to just go, no, no. Why would you know if I've done nothing? The very idea that I get charged would be ludicrous. Bazaar, I may even get quite angry about it. And why are we wasting time on this rather than getting out and finding murderers who murdered my kid's father? You know, anyway, so I'd like to see that. There's something interesting here. We don't run in the same circles, she says. And then she says I and there's a single shoulder shrug and she never gets to complete that I'd like to see the completion of that. I'd like to say just what were we going to say there? Just finish that sentence for me. Honestly, she says I wish it were like I wish it weren't like this. I wish it were different. Well, that for me is quite interesting that you'd even think that you could have any agency over this. Why would she wish it were different? It is how it is. That for me starts to stack up. That really gets me interested. Why do you even think it could be different? If you had nothing to do with this, then there's zero way this could have any difference, you wouldn't even be thinking about I wish it were different. It would be how it is. And you'd be trying to get the people who caused it to be how it is. You'd be trying to get them in front of the law. So look, the emotion is is still quite good here. If it's sublimation, it's really good. So if it's substitution, it's really good substitution here. It's good. It's a good performance. The things that are getting giving her away to me at this point or causing me to go, you'd look at this a little more carefully. Is those little trips that I've I've talked about there and, you know, all that we've heard stacked up over time. Reg, what do you got on this one? Mark, I love the fact used. It is what it is because the one face she does, I've seen a thousand times in work where people push their lips up in acceptance of a situation they can't control. They may be in an argument with somebody they get to an impasse and they push your lips up that way she does. It's not person. It's just a push up. You can't miss it when you see it. Talk about a baseline deviation. First of all, let's go back and say what the interviewer does brilliantly. Two questions, do you have any idea? And she asked, did you have anything to do with not? Did you kill that's beautiful? Because did you kill allows a wiggle and a no answer? When she asked that first question, you get a wild baseline deviation. There's a non-contracted denial, which I think all of us probably today are even more aggressive about saying means nothing by itself, but with a cluster it matters. So let's talk about a cluster in this deviation baseline. She has a massive eye blocking more than any other time as she tries to respond to this. She's got a full blown asymmetric face now. It's more like contempt or disdain. And then she disparages the victim, whatever he was involved in. This is a cluster. This is a very powerful cluster. Then when she's asked this question about the lawyer, she goes, he was referred to me and she does a digital eye accessing where you go for rote memory. Look, I don't talk as much about eye movement as I do in my real life because I control conversations and then I can use eye movement because I can baseline. Most people don't ask good single sensory channel questions. And this is one where it's hard to really say what she's doing. Couple of questions. Why she got a tissue? Anybody see her cry yet? Then when she's asked, do you have any idea? Watch her blink rate go through the roof more than any other place in here. She's back to some massive baseline deviation that she's got contempt face and now large head shaking. I think when she's talking about this stuff, she's talking about this. She doesn't want anybody to ever go through this. She's not talking about him being dead. She's talking about everything else. And that's followed by the drawn down sides of her mouth, an immediate flush to her mucus membranes and her eyes and nose reddened. She eye blocks again. She's got asymmetry in her face. I think it's disdain for the situation. I don't. There's kind of a pseudo apology in here. You can feel you can feel disdain for the situation without feeling remorse for the outcome. And I'm with you, Mark. I wish it could have been different. Like, how? What does that mean? That is an out of place sentence that if I were interrogating, I'd say, wait a minute, what do you think could have been different? The daughter couldn't have been there when he was killed. He didn't get killed. You weren't angry at. I want to know what that means. That's an orphan statement that is alone and needs some support and backup. Chase, what do you got? Yeah, so let's break down. Let me add to that cluster, actually. And just this question, did you have anything to do with Jared's murder? The first thing we have there is eye blocking that Greg called out there. We have the standard non-contracted denial, which we're saying did not. So didn't then we have question repetition within the answer. Saying the question back. Then we have a sharp blink rate increase. Then we have a lack or lowering of confidence there. Then we have psychological distancing because she doesn't say his name, even though the interviewer did, and she did question repetition. So which means she was prone to repeat the question. Didn't want to repeat the name. Just those things alone on the behavioral table of elements. Since I haven't done it in a while, we've tallied that score up. You need an 11 on the behavioral table of elements to be likely deceptive or potential deceptive. She scored a 24 in this statement on the behavioral table. There's a brand new version on the Chase who's app. If you want to go download it, it's totally free. So what she says, I wish it were like this. I'm going to jump on this train that you guys are all on here to this statement alone did it for me. I want you to think carefully about what she's talking about and what transpired. I wish it weren't like this. I wish it didn't have to be this way. You can say that another way. I wish it didn't have to go down this road. I wish I wish he would have wised up or I wish something else would have been different and maybe this wouldn't have happened. Let's go back to the killing thing for a minute. Men might be more impulsive with less planning and forethought. And when it comes to women, their crimes can usually involve more planning and premeditation, especially if the method chosen is poisoning, which we might be talking about here in just a minute. Mr. Rouse. All right. This is it. This is what we've all been waiting for. It's what we always wait for and we love it. And this one pays off. If anybody in here is taking the true crime workshop, our course, then you'll know exactly what's happening here. She repeats the entire question as part of her answer. And during the no part, she's like you guys were talking about, she shuts her eyes. She had complete eye blocking there and she shakes her head. It's a hard call, but I think we're seeing doopers delight there because that part of their left part of her mouth. Luck happened to the left side of her face. The left part of her mouth comes up and it sticks for just a second. And I stopped it went back and forth and froze it went back and forth frame to frame and dang it. It looks like a little smile to me. So it's a it's a hard call. But I'm going to I'm going to go ahead and say, I think it's doopers delight. And that lets us know she has the impression she's getting away with this and that her story is being bought by by the interviewer. So we can also say it looks like contempt, all that we blame the Botox for for messing a lot of this stuff up. It's really it's a really tough call for all those things. But I think we're seeing contempt in there, a little contempt in there as well, along with the doopers delight. Now, the answer shouldn't be a repetition of the question. It should be more like no, nothing whatsoever. I didn't have anything to do with this. She should be almost not angry, but a little bit lean into it, man. She doesn't get riled up. She doesn't make dang sure she gets her point across nothing. She's just kind of like soft puddles, that whole thing. She doesn't contract the answer. No, I didn't know I did not. She doesn't hit that no hard. She doesn't hit anything hard in there. It's just kind of flopping out there a little bit because I'm under the impression that it may not be true if she's being deceptive. This is one of the big red flags we look for. It's huge and she speaks really softly, really. It's not quite fading facts, but it's really quiet as she's talking through there. Now, she's hard to defense attorney to protect her kids. That's what she said because her pictures of her children are being made public because she was in the park with the kids where they get ready to have her ex-husband's memorial there. You don't hire a defense attorney for that. You know, do you get somebody, some bulldog like Sam Miller over in Nashville? If you're going to do something like that, somebody you know, is for dang sure going to get taken care of. But somebody said, let me tell you what you ought to do. You need to get you a defense attorney. And she said, you probably right. So that's what that guy, that's why he's into the mix. And then the interviewer does the classic interrogation question as when she delivers that she's and she does such a beautiful job at this because you know what she does after that? Nothing, she's clams up and waits and it pays off because she starts to add those qualifiers that she gives this non-contracted answer. Then everything looks so weird. She starts talking about about other things that they have nothing to do really, whether she did it or not. She starts, she gets into whole subjects going on in there. And again, she doesn't say no. She doesn't say no, no, I didn't, it wasn't me. I didn't do it, which normally that's what you see most of the time. Not every time, but quite often, that's the one you see. So for me, that's a big red flag. And I think this interviewer did a really good job of that. It was really impressive because quite often what we deal with when we're seeing these interviews is the person interviewing, they'll ask them a question and they'll answer and they'll answer another question. And that the cameras on them the whole time and they wait till the question is finished and they'll look like they're listening. Then you go to cut to the person. So we missed that first initial. They did a great job on that for for people who are into body language. I think it was exceptional. And I'm really impressed with how the interviewer just clammed right up and let her just go on and on and on because that's what we train people to do is to do that. And it worked, worked beautifully. The island is you. Did you have anything to do with Jared's murder? No, I did not have anything to do with his murder. Shana says she has no idea if the murder was targeted or what Jared was involved in saying they ran in different circles. But Action News Jax reported in June, Shana had hired criminal defense attorney, Hank Cox. He was referred to me by several friends and ultimately my kids images and videos were being used in the media without consent. Shana said Cox was hired to protect her kids. I asked her if she thinks she will face criminal charges. She says no, that she's cooperated with detectives. Do you have any idea who might have done this? I do not have any idea. I, as I said, we've been divorced. We don't run in the same social circles. I. All I know is that I would never want anybody to go through this. She told me if she could speak to Jared again, she'd say one thing. Honestly, that I wish it weren't like this. I wish things could have been and could be different. Now we're going to switch gears a little bit. We're going to talk about that woman, Aaron Patterson, who has been accused of feeding poisonous mushrooms to family members and other people she knows. And some of them have died. Greg, what's else a little bit about these? Yeah, I think this is a set of reporters ambush her at her house right outside her vehicle and will not let her you'll see will not let her in the door until she answers questions. I think to start with, she entertains that and we'll see that progressively change. So far, I don't think she's been charged, but there's a lot of suspicion around her because of change to food. She fed her children, supposedly, and she may or may not have eaten the meal herself. It's a tragedy. What's happened? Can you tell us about the meal that you caused? I was devastated by what's happened. The loss of Donning. Donning still in hospital, the loss of Ian and Heather and Gail. It was some of the best people that I've ever met. Gail was like take your time. Gail was the mum that I didn't have because my mum passed away four years ago and Gail's never been anything but good and kind to me. And Ian and Heather were some of the best people I've ever met. They never did anything wrong to me. I'm so devastated about what's happened and the loss to the community and to the families and to my own children have lost their grandmother. All right, Mark, where do you go? Oh, yeah. So look, the last one that we saw was incredibly subtle compared to what we're seeing here now, which is really quite extreme. Eye blocking with the fingers, right from moment one. Eyelids go down, shading of the head. So she's trying to hide herself. Well, you know, she has been ambushed, shall we say. So there may be some reasoning for that. We get her checking for tears or is she checking that, you know, her mascara isn't running maybe? I don't know. But whatever it is, there's an obsession with how she might look or what the physical appearance is doing around the eyes. That's that I wouldn't expect to see for somebody who's in a devastated state. When you're devastated, you're not too worried about the impression that you're making. She says, I'm so devastated. I didn't have my mum passed away. Good and kind to me. Anything wrong to me. My own children. So there's a huge focus in her language. The ego meter, shall we say, has moved to the eye, to the me, not to they, them, there, it's all I, me, mine. Well, that's unusual, I would say. Not what I would expect for somebody who is truly devastated. So video number one, unlike the last subject that we saw video number one with that last subject, I'm like, yeah, it seems, you know, I need more to stack up here. Already in this one, I'm already cautious around what's going on here. Certainly excited to see more. Scott, what do you got on this one? All right. Again, if you've taken True Crime Workshop, you'll know exactly what you're seeing here. This woman is insulating herself from from these people by crying so much that she can't even talk, she can't even engage with them because she's so emotionally distraught here. So the more questions they ask, the further away she gets and they can't they can't get to her. The fake cry is pretty bad. And when somebody's crying for real, they make these almost guttural sounds from the diaphragm, and that's not what we're hearing here. There's nothing, you know, erupting from from the diaphragm. It's all chest stuff. It's all coming from the chest. The breathing is under control. There's no that deep gasping that you hear a lot of times when someone's been crying real hard or they're feeling true grief as she would be in this situation, I would assume, especially this. It's not very long afterwards that this happened, that she's being asked these questions that she got ambushed at the house. So we're not seeing or hearing those things when it comes to true grief. Now, she's wiping her eyes and it's such a horrible attempt to show that she's feeling grief, that she's grieving because it's it's there's nothing there. I don't I mean, I'm not so far. I haven't seen real tears or any tears at all. And we're not seeing that front house engagement like we should have no quote unquote grief muscle. Nothing happened in there. It's it's it's minimal to zero. Again, no deep breaths. They're all they're all just these quick little things from the chest. And when she said that the guy asked, can you tell us about the meal you cooked? She doesn't even get near it. She doesn't say anything about it. She starts talking about about how it's a tragedy, what happened. And then talk about her to her children and her friends and everything. Everything but what she was going to feed them. She talks about how it was her grandmother. Apparently she's divorced. And these are her ex-in-laws that she's killed or that have been killed. I don't know if she's been I'm assuming I don't know how to word. I'll step in. How am I going to get out of this? Let's if she's guilty. Deceased. Yeah, these people are deceased for meeting these mushrooms. I'm not saying she did it. I'm just I'm assuming if she let's move on. So let's talk about what she fed them. Now, my wife's a P.I. And she's also a mushroom expert. So when this came up, she's like first time she said, you know, I was doing this, I said, I'm sure we will be. And she went out to explain the mushroom, which is called the death cap, that this woman that was that she accidentally put in their food. And what she would she make, Mark? Yeah, what did what did she make? She made she made beef Wellington, which is incredibly complex to do. She'd have been using the mushrooms in in what's called the deluxe part of it. It's a beautiful part of the beef Wellington. The beef Wellington, by the way, is a labor of love. You only make beef Wellington because you love people that, you know. So yeah, yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? But yeah, she made Wellington, Scott. So the and Amber also told me that the scientific name for this or the technical name for it is the Amanita philides. I think I pronounced that right. She said, what's your pronunciation? Because mushroom people will get on you. So I don't know if I'm saying it correctly or not. But I think that's what she she pronounced or said to pronounce. It might be and I'm not sure. So anyway, if mushroom people go and give me a break, I don't know. I'm not into the whole thing. I don't know how to pronounce all those. But apparently she said, these things take a few days to kill you sometimes. Most of the time and what happens is they go into your organs and they start shutting things down and it's really painful and it's a horrible thing to go through. But as you go through this, after the first couple of days, you feel like, hey, I'm coming around, things start looking good. But not long after that, you had right for the squatter a lot of the time. Not everybody dies from this, but it's a horrible poisoning situation. So if you think you've been poisoned by these things, you got to get to the doctor quick or get to the hospital quick. And so let's talk about some of the things that some of the symptoms that will let you know that you've been poisoned by by one of the death caps. You have gastrointestinal distress. And those are the initial signs that that may make food poisoning. You have vomiting, nausea, a lot of diarrhea, apparently. Then you have the false recovery. That's where you have that false sense of I'm getting better. But that happens about halfway through the after the initial symptoms. And then that's what usually delays people in getting medical help. So quite often that you think everything's going to be fine. But if you can get to the doctor in time, you might be able to pull out of this. I don't know who knows. Then you have liver and kidney failure and you the mushroom talks and start turning your it gets gross anyway. And your urine output goes real low. And then there are a lot of logical symptoms. A lot, a lot of cases are confusion, seizures, and often they'll go into a coma. Now, I think what's happened, this woman is talking about the people who were killed so far and she names one guy Ian who she says was dead. And I think he's the the preacher or the priest and he's not. He wasn't dead at the time of this. She got those names wrong. So I think if I were her, I'd pretty much know who was alive or who was alive. And I'd be counting and praying because especially now, because the longer it goes on, the more that died, the more trouble she would be in if she did this, because I'm not, you know, we don't know. I don't know if she did or not. I'm just saying I'm assuming if she did, she'd be more in trouble. Gosh, I hope I haven't. No, well, I'm going to. OK, you'll either hear from me or not. I'll do it in a couple of days. I'll let you guys know. You'll know what you got. It's a Amonida, Amonida. And it's the second part that gets me. I don't know how to pronounce the second part. The second, the only Amonida I know is Amonida, Muscaria, which is a whole other whole other thing. OK, because this is that. Well, I can't pronounce the other one right. But there are much more people going to let us have it, man. I'm telling you, they're coming for us. Well, just you go ahead on. Yeah, especially as you have Muscaria on the image. You know, yeah, well, yeah, wearing his Muscaria. That's what she told me, too. She said, you got to get rid of that hat because they're going to think you think that. And I said, yeah, I'd assist the months. The only mushroom that I could find. No, we know that's not the mushroom. It's the mario mushroom, mario mushroom. Yeah, she said they'll be coming for you. So mushroom people bring it on. No, don't. I don't know anything about mushroom. Chase, sorry. So they ask her, can you tell us about the meal we cooked? Scott, you covered this and she just launches it. I was devastated, blah, blah, blah. This is classic avoidance. And here's the science. I'll skip over everything that Scott said behind that. When someone has an internal desire to protect information or guilt, the limbic system overrides their logic, which it can do in any time that it wants to. They can just take over your brain. In this case, she's unable to answer because there's so much fear around the subject of dinner or the lunch. She's unable to understand that a reasonable person would both understand and respond to the question. And her fear overrides this rational thinking and defaults to concealment. When it comes to her tears, she takes her glasses off, I think, so maybe that they might be more visible. I could be wrong. Then she tech checks for tears or makeup, like like you said, Mark. And I don't see any coming. But then she's nodding while she's saying the victim's names like this person and then this person and then this person like you're trying to when you're a kid, trying to recite the alphabet. This is the behavior of somebody trying hard to remember a list. Like when I was taking final exams in like radiology and I'd be in my head going like pica, posterior, inferior, cerebellar, artery. And like trying to do this, I'd be nodding my head during the exam. That's the same thing we're seeing here. And she says the biggest thing of all, the most giant red flag of all to me is they've never done anything wrong to me. Which in her mind might mean if they had done something wrong, then. I would maybe do something. So this is all our opinion, though. When I heard this come out, I got a cold chill this morning. I could spend an hour on this clip here and not cover everything. I think all of us could. And this one's going down in the history books is so many clusters here. Greg, what do you think? Yeah, let's talk for a minute about crying. I was on a plane with a kid yesterday. The kid cried out loud over things that reason to cry about like the engine and that kind of stuff. And that's a passionate, airy lots of crying, all that wailing that kids do. The minute it became a manipulative cry, the cadence changed and there's no more broken breathing that went with it. So people use crying in some ways. If you're crying out of emotion, there's often rapid heartbeat, lots of respiration, and it's a broken kind of a sound. That's when it is caused by crying, that broken voice is caused that way. When the fracture in the voice isn't crying, but it's trying to control emotion, then it comes in waves. You try to control it, loosens up and it comes in waves. Either one of those is really genuine crying. I'm either trying to control the crying or I have broken breathing. Neither is going on here, neither. This is too rhythmic to and it almost sounds Scott like you're loping that you usually talk about like it's intended. There's no attempt, a couple of things just to point out. The tear check looks like she's lost passion for the crying. She's doing something. There is no sorrow in her brow tips. None, no grief. We talk about the grief muscle, but there's no sorrow in her brow tips. Sorrow is a different thing. That's why we don't believe her. Now, let's also say we can't tell intent, even if she did, in fact, poison these people, which it appears she did, was intentional. We can't tell that by watching Body Language. We can only say, I don't see sorrow. I don't see this. I don't see that. And that's what we're going to have to go with because this is all going to be our opinions of what we're seeing based on how this woman is interacting in a four minute video, but there's a whole lot of clusters here. There's a whole lot of crying that's not real. There's that no fracture in the voice. There's no respiration causing the cry. This feels like that same little kid on the plane when until they got what they're after. I don't trust the crying. I don't trust the tears. Let's wait and see if she does better. The eye wouldn't see you. It's a tragedy. What's happened? Can you tell us about the meal that you caught? I'm so devastated by what's happened, by the loss of Donning, Donning still in hospital, the loss of Anne and Heather and Gail, who are some of the best people that I've ever met. Gail was like Gail was the mom that I didn't have because my mom passed away four years ago. And Gail's never been anything but good and kind to me. And Anne and Heather were some of the best people I've ever met. They never did anything wrong to me. I'm so devastated about what's happened. Can you tell us about the loss to the community and to the families and to my own children who've lost their grandmother? Can you tell us a bit more about the lunch? What I can tell you is that I just can't fathom what has happened. I just can't fathom what has happened. That Anne and Heather have lost their lives and Gail has lost her life. And Don is still in hospital. And I pray I pray that he pulls through because my children love him. Chase, what do you got? So all we're seeing here is a lot more limbic system of our brain defaulting to concealment to reverse directly back to the same rehearsal lines that look like they were practiced in a mirror almost. And the vocal lilting here you're hearing is forced lilting this kind of vocal fluctuation when in a person who's really crying, it would be a physiological response. An automatic physiological response because the person needs to breathe. So there's lung fluctuations that are going on when someone's crying. She's heard the sound from people crying before and assumes this is probably a subconscious process, assumes that the sound alone is what's required to make people think you're crying. In reality, you'll see physiological evidence that someone's crying with heaving and breathing irregularly. And when you hear this sound, that's going to that's going to be apparent in someone who's crying. And it would be so obvious that you could see it at about 100 meters away since we're in Australia here. And finally, there's a non guilty or a non guilty person is going to be open to talk about the food. It would be the center of the discussion. They would talk openly about their feelings of guilt or shame, even more openly about how they feel about potentially causing this would be a person who didn't plan it like I feel so awful. I hope it wasn't the food. It would be a center point of the discussion. So like I say, in many of our videos, every every time you're in doubt, just go back and look for what's being hidden, concealed or not talked about. And you'll see something. You'll see a story there that everybody's got to tell. Scott, what do you got? All right. One more time she's asked about the lunch and she goes right back into Chaff and redirect and she gets as far away from that as she possibly can. She's go straight to not understanding what's happening. And then she says, all I can tell you is because that's probably all she can tell him because you can't tell him much more. There's not much more to tell if she says much more. She may tell it herself by accident. That's my opinion, anyway. Then she stands there like an actor in a horrible, horrible play from like the fourth grade or something, just it just so bad. I don't know who she's looking at or where she's looking or anything. Her eyes are closed. The whole thing is just a really bad show in your eye. I think it's a rehearsed answer. I think she was ready and in her. I don't think she's the smartest person in the world, have no idea. But but I think she's rehearsed this answer in her own way up in her head. And she's delivering it. It's not going the way she thought it would go. I think she was she thought when someone asked her, I don't think she expected this. But I think she thought when she was asked the questions about this, she'd be able just to deliver with this this fake cry and it would sell and they would buy it. That's how it looks to me. So she just keeps distancing with that. I'm devastated thing. And I think she just looks like a little kid who's been busted for doing something she shouldn't have done and it really doesn't bother. But she's faking her way through it. That's what it looks like to me. Like, what do you think? Yeah. So look, just as I studied molecular astronomy at Harvard, let's talk about beef Wellington, OK? And it is a job to put beef Wellington together. So Chase, to your point of if somebody says, hey, tell us about dinner. If you've made beef Wellington and you are innocent, you're going to go. I made beef Wellington. That's how much I love these people. Because that's that's got to be minimum a whole day, probably two days of preparation, which means you can plan, you can prepare and you're going to take care of the ingredient throughout that, because this is a real situation you've got yourself into. You probably are going to make one. You're probably going to make two of these things because because you've got a lot of people around and people are going to want more of that. So that she avoids talking about the lunch completely. That is totally off base for somebody who loves to cook, which clearly she does because you only make beef Wellington if you love doing that and you love entertaining. So that's why for me that she avoids that is is, you know, totally off kilter that she does. Mark, how does it take to make that for real? Like an hour's wise? Well, I mean, in terms of like you've got to let it rest in the fridge at various different stages to get it really nice and tight. Yeah, you've got to if you're going to do it, you're going to sous vide the meat, which because you're looking for exactly the right Brownian motion through the meat, by the way, that equation for the Brownian motion is an Einstein equation. So if you're ever thinking, what did Einstein ever do for me? Well, he made it possible for us to be able to calculate exactly how long it will take and exactly what heat will be required to perfectly cook your steak or that, you know, that that medallion of beef inside the beef, the beef Wellington. So it's it's a massive, it's a massive amount of time. But she gets into praying, I pray, I pray. So, you know, some other higher entity comes into it. There is no higher entity as far as I'm concerned than the beef Wellington. It's that's an act of that's an act of that's a miracle, the beef Wellington. And then my children love him. So again, bringing in the children rather than saying, I love him. My children love him. It's all off base for me. Greg, what do you got on this one? Yeah, let me give her a benefit of a doubt on one thing. Look, if tomorrow you made beef Wellington and you forged mushrooms and you made a mistake and you killed your family, you would also still feel guilt and all the same things we're talking. So let's give her a benefit of a doubt there. What we can see, however, is that we look for red flags. One is not a big deal, but there's no attempt to stop crying. There's no grief or no concern in the brow. There's no sorrow at the brow. If you listen, what I can tell you that starts off aggressive in tone. And then she changes gears to I can't fathom. That feels awkward. That feels like she wanted to say something else and thought it. And then she does a sudden eye grab and tear check. Her blink rate goes through the roof and we're back to that fractured voice like a little kid that sound chase. She was talking about something else. I was talking about the fractured breathing followed by that. If you're trying to control control, then it comes in waves. None of that's there. She's back to that thing with the same way this little kid was crying. Even at the end, her tone flattens out as she says because and she don't just say because my children, she again, hesitates. Says because my bit and then she changes directions. I want to know what those words meant. Maybe it is. Maybe it is that she accidentally did this. So she would have some of these same emotions. We can't tell that. We can't tell intent. Did she go out of her way to do this? I did read, however, there was a dehydrator for mushrooms that she ended up throwing away after this. That starts to look suspicious when put with all these red flags. I wouldn't see you. Can can you tell us a bit more about the lunch? What I can tell you is that I just can't fathom what has happened. I just can't fathom what has happened. That Ian and Heather have lost their lives and Gail has lost her life and Donna's still in hospital. And I pray I pray that he pulls through because my children love him. And you must be pretty shaken up by this as well. I'm devastated. I love them. And I can't believe that this has happened. And I'm so sorry that they have lost their lives. How are you? Believe it. Can't believe it. Can you tell us where the mushrooms came from? Would I pick from the property area? I was just asking. All right, Greg, what do you got? Yeah, for the first time we get some brow involvement that I'm devastated and cannot believe her brows come to a point that sorrow, we want to see that. Looks like there's actually a tear on her cheek. You guys tell me if I'm right or wrong. It looks like a tear running down her cheek. There's withdrawals at the side of her mouth and now some chin involvement. And because of her stature and because of the way she is dressed, you can see her breathing change for the first time. If you just pay attention to a couple of things, look for the emotion in her gates as she starts to leave. I think she's hurt or angry one or the other because her steps are large. She's plotting a lot more. She's angry at them for pushing her. And I think she's angry at them for pushing her to real to a real tear. I think they actually did get real tears out of her. And I think that all that movement is determination and I'll categorize. I usually talk about energy as being high or low, energy is high, focus, external or internal, external, direction, sharp or scattered, all sharp, that's determination. She wants out, she's got a target, she's going for that door. I think regardless of why, there's a moment here where she is actually feeling some emotion. Don't know why. Scott, what do you got? All right, this is where she insulates big time. This is this is huge. I mean, she uses the car to do that. And I don't know what she's looking at or who she's looking at during this. Eyes are closed a lot. And I can't believe the next question out of the guy's mouth was that you got to be kidding me, right? He doesn't say that when I was like that kind of threw me. And then we're not seeing a lot of things we should be seeing with grief. Still, we don't see any grief muscle. We're not seeing any engagement in the forehead. A little teeny bit, not a whole lot. And then no engagement of the momentum again. I've said momentum like 40,000 times for some reason in this episode. But the front, that's the front part of the chain where the we usually see like the chain boss and some action happening there. And then she totally blows them off by walking around to the other side of the car and then having to get her stuff out of the other side. And I think she's crying. I think I think it could be anger, but my thing is I think she's upset because she's real. She's wishing she hadn't done this. I think that's if there's a real tear there. I think she's crying for herself because she's worried. She's wishing she'd never done this and she knows it's getting bad, especially if the news is there and they're asking you questions. All right, Mark, where you got? Yeah, this is a great piece of behavior, as far as I'm concerned. Greg, she may well have a tear down the side, but she checks for it in the wrong place and so she goes for the center, the center there. Realizes, I think there's nothing there, then dusts the hands. It's like, well, I'm done then. I'm out. I'm out. This is not this is not working. I'm off. I think, Scott, she may well be going for a getaway. She may well be going, I'm going to get in my car and drive and then goes, no, that will look terrible. That will look really if I reverse out of it, that's going to look bad. I think it's either that or or she's her mind is so, you know, she's so in that reptilian brain that there's so much kind of, as we might call it, Chase, you know, that amygdala hijack going on, that she's forgotten that the shopping is in the back, not in the front with her or maybe a combination of all of these things. But in the end, she has to go around to the to the side, grab her shopping, what she got, more mushrooms. I don't know. I don't know what she's bought. I can't I'm not a I'm not a I'm not a shopping bag reader. I'm not a mind reader. There's probably somebody out there. There's probably somebody who can guess what she's got. You know, they think they have some kind of, you know, psychic contact with the inside of the contents of the shopping bag. If you have that, I would like to know what you believe is inside that shopping bag. That would be. Wait a minute. Spidey's calling. Hang on. Is he? Can you tell him I want to know? I want to know. He probably does know. That's the problem. That's very short. Ask him what card she's thinking of right now. Probably the card from a lawyer. She's thinking of the Joker. Exactly. Anyway, that's that's all I got. That's all I got on that one. Great piece of behavior. Chase, what do you got in this one? I think there might be a good chance she's looking up and into the sun here to get some tears going. There's chance. When the clip comes back up for the replay, take a look at the first 10 seconds and tell me if you also think that this might look like a bad audition tape for a TV commercial. Everything's on display here. She's not making eye contact. She's facing the general direction of the cameras. Her arms are down at her sides like a performance. And she's it looks like she's forcing the emotion out. And there's actually a lot of reasons you see guilty people overdoing this display like that, and they tend to overdo these displays to be overly convincing because they think they need to do it how they think it should be done. They might use it as a diversion tactic to shift attention away from evidence or like an inconsistency. And we have innocence. They might believe that if others see them as like victims of their emotions, they'll just be, you know, they couldn't have committed that crime. They're they're so emotional here. And then committing a murder on its own might create some intense cognitive dissonance, especially if the individual or person sees themselves as a good person. So then they have to do this to make themselves feel better. Fear can pretty often manifest with these severe emotional reactions, which are might be masked as remorse. And that might be what we're saying here. Murder by itself can be traumatic even for the perpetrator. And that's not something I don't think we've said before. Murder can still be traumatic to the person that did it to Scott's point. Like, I wish I hadn't done this. And finally, what we said earlier, there's expectation of how somebody's supposed to react after a traumatic event, and they try hard to show them all of these emotions as much as they can in a short amount of time and guilt of people, especially if they're not typically manipulative. This is what I think we're seeing here. If they're not typically manipulative throughout their life or deceptive, they might misjudge how genuine emotions are displayed and then overdo it on accident. So if they're not an expert liar, expert manipulator, they might overdo it because they're not used to doing that. And I think the stomps that we're talking about, like around the car, they're at her house. I think they might be territorial like peaches, like the peaches snort. That's all I like it. Is it on accident or by accident? I say on accident. Actually, I intermix them. Hmm. Excellent by accident. Do I know? I think it's by accident. OK. Hey, Siri, is it on accident or by accident? I think it's accidentally. What she say? She's not even responding. You're not interested. You've got the Alexa, you've got the big home pod. No, Alexa. Is it by accident or on accident? According to an Alexa answers contributor, on accident is used only in spoken English. By accident is the correct phrase to indicate that Alexa stop by accident. The violence is you. And you must be shaking up on this as well. I'm devastated. I love them. And I can't believe that this has happened and I'm so sorry. That they have lost their lives. How are you? I can't believe it. Just can't believe it. Can you tell us where the mushrooms came from? Were they picked from the property area? Keep me alone, please. Police say you're a suspect. Do you have anything to say about that? I say I didn't do anything. I love them. And I'm devastated, but they're gone. And I hope that every fight with my being, I don't pull through. That's what I have to say. Where did the mushrooms come from? Were they picked by you or were they come from there? Can you tell us? What meal did you cook them? Did you eat the same meal there? All right, Greg, what do you got? So this statement is less rehearsed than just kind of what she has to say. And it's all I got to say about that. She moves out. She's frustrated. She's moving heavily, but rapidly. I mean, boom, boom, boom, trying to get through. You can see she's frustrated and angry. Whatever. I don't know whether she picked the wrong mushrooms or did something. But there are a hell of a lot of red flags here to say, if I had picked the wrong mushrooms, I would say, look, I picked the wrong thing. I poisoned my family and I am devastated. I wouldn't say, boom, boom, boom, keep shifting gears and then get angry when they pushed me to the point where I actually had a tear. Just me. I think this is suspicious behavior. And I'll just leave it at that and say, Mark, what do you got? Yeah, a good denial. I didn't do anything. Great denial. I didn't do anything. It's a shame, therefore, that she starts it starts it with, yes, I say, I didn't do anything. If you didn't do the yes, I say that would be that would be a fantastic denial. So so, yeah, net net of that. It's not a good denial because, yeah, you can say you didn't do anything. But but what did you actually what did you actually do? That's all I got on that one would have been would have been a great denial if she'd have actually given a great denial, not a good denial at all. Chase, what do you got? I had the whole denial thing. So let me tell you about emotional connection really quick. Men are more likely to be compartmentalizers where emotions kind of detach emotionally during the act and many times after women are more emotionally entangled with their victim, this is from the FBI, given the relationship context leading to more emotion driven offenses. This also goes into post offense behavior. So let's talk about this really quick. Men, after the crime, they might flee the scene or engage in behaviors to conceal the crime and women are more likely to express remorse immediately or even confess, especially if the crime was not premeditated. So it's pretty interesting here and we'll have a behavior profile here coming up in just a minute, Scott, what do you think? All right. She says, I hope with every fiber of my being that Don pulls through and Don's dead, I think she's talking about Ian. She's got the dead person wrong or the live person or both of them, the live and the dead person wrong. So it's not that I don't think she's paying attention. I think she's got a lot of her mind right now. She's really worried about being caught. And I think she's getting a little bit confused about that. So that's she but she better be concerned about him living because that's one more life sentence. She's going to have to serve. Sir, I like it. There you go. It took me time to be talking. Well, it was worth it. I guess you guys covered all the other stuff. The island is huge. I'm sorry if you're lying, please. Police say you're a suspect. Do you have anything to say about that? I say I didn't do anything. I love them and I'm devastated that they got on. And I hope every five of my being that Don pulls through. That's what I have to say. Did I kiss by you or anybody come from there? You don't? What meal did you cook them? Did you eat the same meal there? All right, Mark, how things look to you so far? What do you think we've seen? Yeah, look, two very, very different subjects there, both of them, possibly criminal, shall we say, but very, very different. One is a much better acting performance than the other. One of the performances is at times really, really quite credible, but for some let downs in the in the linguistics and some, you know, over time, a build up of signals that suggest some deception there. The second one that we saw now, a whole different kettle of kettle of fish there, another piece of cooking there. Chase, what are you saying so far? Yeah, two very different kettles of beef Wellington here. And the first profile, the first better profile. Let's go, let's go backwards. We'll tarantino these profiles. I think this person has a very secretive lifestyle based on what we know. Probably a small social circle, probably manipulative. We keep some people at arm's length. And the fact that she sent the kids to the movies during this, which I just read online during the break, makes me think this was premeditated and not spur of the moment. Mushrooms are also a way to avoid confrontation with people. And I bet she's probably passive aggressive, just like the territorial stomps in other areas of her life. And this doesn't seem to be out of the blue. And I'm willing to bet she's done this before or at least tried to do it before. I don't know. The other woman who killed her ex-husband is a classic case of what's called caregiver vengeance syndrome, and she's followed a pretty common path to commit murder for people in her profile, extremely socially suggestible, which we saw in video number one, natural caregiver based on her behavior profiler, behavior profile and her life. Greg. Yeah, people commit crimes for all kinds of reasons. You can't ever tell what it will be or what their trigger is. Both of these have something going on. Let's let me go like you did. Let me start with the last person. Let's assume for a minute that she didn't intentionally kill someone that made a mistake with mushrooms. Let's assume that. Well, you would expect a whole lot of, oh, my God, what did I do? We don't hear any of that. We hear I didn't do anything and and and no acceptance of guilt. And often we associate that with the most guilty people. There's a reason it happened, but I didn't have anything to do with it. And all the red flags around the crying and all those pieces, certainly I will say this, if she did accidentally poison, she certainly needs a damn good lawyer because she looks for the world guilty with all of the body language and that stuff. So I'll leave it at that. The first one, let's go back. She tells us why she did it. I wish it could have been different and could be now. We both loved our children or the two biggest baseline deviations we see in the entire thing, it's about there's your motive, go after that. And you've found your motive. Now go dig and find opportunity and the rest of the stuff. And this is the other thing is I'm always amazed that people conspire to commit murder because you're going to pay a guy a few dollars to kill somebody. What do you think it takes to get that guy to talk about you paying him money? Probably a few more dollars. Scott, what do you got? Yeah, I like this one and I didn't like this one because they were so there's not much to I mean, they're fairly simple, both of them. But I think it's a great example of somebody who is who's I think a little bit more intelligent than the other one. I think the first one was a little smarter than the second one. And she's been able to present herself and her a situation differently than the second one. And I think in the second one, I was going to say as well that I think she this kind of thing, you don't go out and kill a whole bunch of people like that at once, there's got to be she's either done it on the dog or she's tried something else with this and maybe didn't think it would go that bad. You know, I don't know how many mushrooms she put in this thing, but maybe she thought she was just going to kind of make him sick like a like an up year because she doesn't like him there because it's her X and laws, you know, I think that's all the people. I think it was either her sister or sister in law or something. I'm not straight on that. I heard that from somewhere, but I think it's her in law, her ex-in-laws and maybe her sister or something. But I don't think she maybe thought it would kill him. I'm not sure. But I bet that's in the first shot at it. I have to all those things. This is a good one and we'll see you next time. There's a Wellington that I made. There we go. Oh, wow. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah.