 Hello, this is Hamz-A-Rin for The Sinai, watching Islamabad today on Think Tech Hawaii. Today, we're gonna be speaking about the drama industry, the scripts, the drama actors, the lighting, the cameraman, and what it actually takes to produce a wonderful drama that has an everlasting impact on the society. I have one of Pakistan's leading directors and actors with me, and we're gonna be discussing with him what it actually takes to make sure that an absolute fantastic drama can actually come onto the scene and have an everlasting impact on the public. We can't just focus on drama, and I mean, I remember when I was growing up, we had Pakistan television, PTV, and they used to show such amazing dramas. Ashfaq Ahmed Sahib used to write, Bhanu Kutse used to write, Asin Mohan used to write. And the scripts were so good. There were different kinds of shows. There were, I mean, shows for children, there were shows for older people, there were shows for people who like comedy. And now I feel that we don't have that. We just have one, one kind of genre that is being catered to everybody. There's nothing on television for children. There's no comedy shows. Like, I mean, it's just something that I feel like, there's a lot that can be done. So when you talk about shortcomings, I mean, where do you think the solution lies? How are you gonna rectify it? Again, I mean, it's not up to me, but I feel like we, as an industry, need to step outside a comfort zone. And we need to kind of start, I mean, start, I feel start producing content that's, you know, that's more responsible, I feel. Okay, okay. So Mr. Osman, in 2022, you released Hulaburani, which is a horror short film that won the best short film award at the 2002 Los Angeles, you know, science fiction and horror festival. So tell us, when you talk about Hulaburani in general, tell us about what it's all about. I mean, you know, in terms of the content, the story, the significance of the story. Well, I mean, I was, I remember back in 2004, 2005, a couple of us friends were sitting and we used to love telling horror stories. And they were really fascinated by, you know, haunted houses in the country. And, you know, one of my friends kind of told us a story about this university and it was really intriguing. And I was like, you know, I'd love to, like I want to see this as a film. But at that point, I mean, there's like, we weren't making a lot of movies in Pakistan. So I mean, at that point, I felt like, you know, I shouldn't make it, but I didn't, and that story kind of stuck by me. It kind of took me about, I think more than a decade to kind of, you know, and it wasn't me actually. I was, I think I was traveling back from Lahore with my wife and, you know, we were on the road and I'm like, you know, she's like, why don't you, you love directing? Why don't you direct? And I said, you know, it's just too much effort. It's just, you know, I'm acting, I'm earning money. I need to, you know, you have to take some time off and you don't know if you're going to get any returns or anything like that. She's like, but that's what you love doing. I mean, at least you will be happy. And I was like, yeah, I really want to make this short. And she's like, then you should. And she's the one who actually pushed me to kind of start working on the film. And then we got like other people involved, actors involved, my partner at the time, who started the production company with me. He was there and we started this, we start the process of kind of pre-production and getting script written and everything. And at that point, we had no idea that we would send it to festivals or, you know, we just wanted to finish the film. And, you know, once we got the film done, we had a little small screening in Islamabad for people who wanted to watch a short horror film. People came, a lot of friends came, a lot of people who we didn't know came. And a lot of people came up to me and said, you know, you really need to send this to festivals. We were actually supposed to release the film a day after the screening online. But then they said send it to festivals and everything. So we were like, okay, great. I talked to everybody and then they were all on board. We just started submitting the film. I had no hopes because it's a horror film. I don't think like horror as a genre is, you know, could be like, you know, people would kind of, it can't be like one of those critically acclaimed, and then suddenly we started getting these notifications, your film's been selected, your film's won this award, your film's won that award. And, I mean, honestly, all of us were over the moon because everybody worked so hard on the film. And so what about the domestic response to the movie? I mean, it was almost as if, you know, you said that it was an idea that just came out of the blue. And suddenly, you know, everybody's starting to watch it. That basically means that it must have been popular enough for people to recommend that it should be sent to festivals, right? Well, I mean, so we had like about, I think, 250 people that came that day to watch the film. Okay. In that cinema, I mean, so this is the thing. Every time I make something, I make a short something, whenever there's a screening, I'm very, very nervous. I don't know why. I can't sit, I was standing at the back and, you know, I was just hearing people and their reaction and what parts would they react to and what parts they wouldn't. And I think that as a director is also a learning experience for you, you know, when you see or, you know, because a lot of times you go like, oh, I thought they would react to this but they didn't. They reacted to this, which is something that I didn't expect, you know? Right, right. So I was standing there and I was really nervous but it was overwhelming how we got to standing ovation. You know, people would really like the film and I mean, I can't be more thankful to my team. You know, they've done such an amazing job and they did, they worked really hard. I mean, you know, when you're working on a short film that's a low budget film, you don't have a lot of money. There are a lot of things that you have to do that an actor or producer, you know, blind producers and, you know, lighting crew don't have to do on a commercial film, you know? It's a bit, it's a little more difficult for the crew and everybody because, you know, you probably have to work overtime because you don't have budget to shoot the next day. Right. And they were amazing. My entire team, honestly speaking and I'm so happy that I have this team to, you know, bad to work with and I want to do more stuff with them, inshallah, hopefully. Excellent, excellent. Yeah, hopefully. Tell us a little bit about Sinfey Ahan. Well, I mean, Sinfey Ahan is, you know, Sinfey Ahan was a drama that, you know, I didn't care, my role was less. I, when I was a kid, I wanted to go to the army. Actually, I wanted to go to the air force. So I, when I got that opportunity to play captain Daniel, I was like, I'm gonna jump onto the opportunity and do this. So yeah, I mean, it was an interesting experience. It was, you know, I've never seen so many actors on a set together. We had to shoot this scene, which was in Abtabad, outside PMA and, you know, it was the, I think the orientation of all the girls and their parents had come and their relatives had come to kind of see them off. So that day it was just, everybody was there and it was just, it was a very interesting experience. But we had a lot of fun, yeah. That's great, that's great. So what about the contents of the entire drama? I mean, what is the, what can be considered to be the major takeaways or what is it about that really inspires people to watch it? It'll inspire a lot of girls to kind of, because, you know, in our households, it's just, I think it's the patriarchal mindset. I don't know what it is. It's just that, oh, like, you know, the girl can't go into the army. Why not? Right. I've seen so many girls, like, I love doing MMA and the amount of girls that come there and they're so good at what they do, they can take on so many guys, you know? So, I mean, I don't understand, like that's one thing that will change for a lot of young girls who want to go to the army and they think it's impossible for us to go to the army. It's for the boys. No, it's not. And it will encourage a lot of young girls to kind of take that step and talk to their parents that I've decided I don't want to be an engineer. I don't want to be a doctor. I want to go into the army, you know? And when so many people watch that drama, they're like, oh, yeah, we saw that drama and there were four girls who, you know, I feel like dramas and medium films, they impact you on a daily, on a daily base. Like, there are little things that you see and you can normalize them, which is also dangerous. That's why I, media and our dramas have to be more responsible, you know? So I feel like it will encourage a lot of young girls to take that step. And, you know, that's amazing. Yeah, well, we've recently seen that in all three of the forces you have increased amount of female participation. We're talking about the Navy, we're talking about the military, we're also talking about the Air Force here in Pakistan. So do you think that, you know, such dramas would ensure that the current progress would actually be taken to a different level altogether where you would actually have gender parity in such organizations, especially an organization because in Pakistan, the army is considered to be extremely, you know, it's an extremely important organization. It's an organization which exhibits a lot of political clout. So when you have gender parity in such organizations, that would increase, you could say, its traction. So do you think that, you know, serials such as Senfé Aya would result in that sort of gender parity? Senfé Aya would result in that sort of gender parity taking place in the, you know, foreseeable future? I hope so. I hope so. I think more girls should, if they want to, they should do that, they should, whatever they want to do, they should be able to do that. They should be able to make that decision to themselves, you know? Okay. All right, so let's come to South Asia in general. And obviously you have India, which has a larger economy, it has a larger drama industry and also larger film industry. But in terms of the quality of dramas, I think Pakistan does take the lead because we've seen that the reviews of Pakistani dramas are far more superior as compared to the Indians. Obviously the Indians take the cake as far as, you know, movies are concerned. So when we talk about Pakistani dramas and if you compare them with Indians, where do you think, you know, is the, or the decisive factors which ensure the Pakistani dramas get better reviews than the Indian ones? I feel it's the direction that their dramas, I feel like we are also, we have also now started producing dramas that can, you know, you can kind of mistake, like you can kind of think it's an Indian drama because with the music and the way they direct their dramas, they dramatize their content so much that the audience can't relate to it. Okay. You know, when you make something that has like, you know, sound effects of like thunder and drums and, you know, you're showing a clip again and again and just for the shock factor, you, I think the audience can relate to that. And I feel general direction, like it's just so far from reality, some of their dramas. But, you know, our dramas, bad, at least used to be very, very good. And they used to be, you know, your audience could relate to them. Even now, there are a lot of dramas that, you know, you see and you're like, there was this drama that was coming on television. Kuch Ankahi has Sajal in it and it has Bilal in it. And that drama, I feel like it kind of reminds you of the BTV era, it's very nice. I mean, the simplicity of our dramas, I feel is what makes it more relatable to the audience. So we're talking about simplicity of dramas. I mean, do you think the script writers in on both sides of the border, especially particularly in Pakistan, are they actually given the due credit that they deserve? I think yes. Okay. I think as actors, when we're pitched a drama, the first two or three questions are, who's it written by, who's directing it? And then I'd like to read the script or whatever. So I think with script writers, some of the script writers have made a really big name for themselves in the drama industry. Okay. But do you think there needs to be more publicity as script writers as compared to maybe actors for that matter? Because what normally happens with smile? I think there needs to be publicity. Firstly, and this is something that I really believe in. I think there needs to be publicity. We need to appreciate all the crew members. We don't, a lot of people don't realize this. Your entire ENG crew arrives, at least an hour and a half before you arrive on set. They're the ones that leave at the very end. You've left. Everybody else has left. They have to pack everything up. They have to put it back in the van. And then they have to go back. They get lesser amount of sleep. They have to wake up early. So I think they really need to be appreciated are the people, the makeup artists, the script writers, the people behind the scenes really need to be appreciated. We only, even though I'm an actor, but I feel like we only appreciate actors. We don't appreciate anybody else. And especially the ENG crew. I mean, I know, I work as a director as well and I know how hard they work. So I feel that they need to be appreciated. Okay. So I mean, obviously I do believe that comparisons are odious. You don't need to compare apples with oranges. India is a different country with a different dynamic altogether. But do you see any sort of, I mean, lots of Pakistani actors have gone and worked in Indian movies and they've worked in the Indian industry. Given the current situation, I mean, you have two nuclear powers which are always on the brink of war. I mean, it might not necessarily be a nuclear war, but it could be a conventional war for that matter. Is there any possibility of drama actors going and working in the Indian industry or vice versa? Or do you think that the climate is just way too hostile for that to happen right now? I mean, right now I don't see it happening. But who knows about the future, but right now it's, I think it's a bit difficult for that to happen. So I just don't feel like right now is a good time. I think the respect needs to be mutual. It needs to be from both ways. So yeah, I feel like if that happens, if we're given respect, we will give respect. And I think then it could probably happen, but I don't see that happening right now. All right, so let me just narrow the question down at a personal level. Do you foresee yourself working in Indian movies or Indian drama in the future? So you basically believe it has to be Pakistan or if there's any other outlet, it has to be in the American industry, which continues to be the most dominant industry in the world. I don't, again, I feel like you need to be able to, I mean, I don't see myself working over there. I don't think they'll ever offer me anything, but I don't think I'll probably be doing that. I can't really say for sure, Reswan, because anything can happen at any point in time. It could, it could, definitely. But I mean, see the thing is again, my thing is respect is both ways. If you give respect, get respect. It's that simple. And if that happens for sure, but I mean, it has to be, it has to be a mutual thing. You can't, you know, and it goes in every, in any relationship, if you're not getting respect or if you're getting whatever, like if you're not getting respect and you still want to kind of be associated, I mean, that's just, I feel like it doesn't set well with me, I don't know. Yeah, well, it's understandable. And I think a lot of Pakistani actors or Indian actors for that matter do share that sentiment. I mean, it goes both ways. So one notable trend in the drama industry is the influx of Turkish dramas within Pakistan. I mean, they're getting more screen time. We've seen that Turkish dramas, for example, Arturul, correct me if I'm pronouncing it incorrectly, but you know, Arturul for that matter, or you can talk about, you know, there's so many other Turkish dramas. For that trend, do you think that trend is a healthy one? It promotes greater bilateral cooperation or bilateral goodwill between the drama industries? Or do you think that the influx of Turkish dramas are threatening the viewership of indigenous Pakistani dramas? No, I don't think that's, it's threatening anything. I think they're making better content. Their stories are better. Their cinematography is better. Their score is better. Their sound is better. Their, you know, everything is, everything gels together really well and it's at the end of the day, it's a good product. Now, you can't stop people liking a good product. That's, I just don't understand that. So if it's coming to Pakistan and people are liking it, I'm nobody, nobody should be able to say that this shouldn't play on TV, why? I mean, it's a good show. Why would you want to stop? Exactly. Why would you want to stop people from watching a good show? If they like it, they like it. Okay. So Osman, actors and actresses have been pretty vocal about the political situation in the country as well. I mean, obviously, I don't get involved in politics. Oh, you don't get involved in politics as all, but you do pray for a more peaceful, prosperous, and you could say, yeah, you do, you do for that matter. So every Pakistani does. So lastly, if we come towards the message that you want to give young aspiring actors trying to make a mark in the field, what would that be? Because there are lots of actors who actually tap the doors of the Pakistani drama industry. They might be very talented, but certain roadblocks actually come. I'm not going to get into the nepotism debate. We've already had that with many actors before, but what would be the message from your side to young aspiring actors who want to make a mark in the drama industry? My advice is be patient. If you're working hard, if you're giving it everything, be patient. A lot of actors I come across, they go like, oh, we've struggled for a year or two years, and now we got any more. I feel like the patience has kind of come. Like it took me 12 years. There's so many other actors who've worked really hard to get where they are. So I feel like the patience is lacking. I might be wrong. There might be a lot of young actors who are really struggling hard. Osama, for example, the kid who was in our short, Gulabo, he's worked really hard, and I've seen him, and I've heard about his struggle as well. But there's some kids I've also seen who get really let down by not getting the opportunities in a couple of years, and they're like, oh, we don't want to do this. We'll do something else. I mean, if this is what you want to do, I know it's difficult, but give some time to it, give it a bit of time, and I'm pretty sure it'll happen. And also, just don't lose hope. This is very important, because a lot of kids go like, oh, I don't want to now act and everything, and they're really good actors. Why? Why do you want to waste this talent? Just be a bit more patient. And if you're working hard, and if you're giving it your all, I'm pretty sure you'll get the opportunity. And do you think there needs to be a more enhanced culture of auditioning in Pakistan, where you're from the general public? Casting couch, if anybody's calling you, if any director says, come here, no, audition, yes. No casting, I just don't understand. And also, I see very few people doing auditions. That is also, I think, one thing that I feel like more companies need to do auditions for young actors regularly. Okay, so why do you think that's the case? Why don't people audition for young talent? Again, I don't know. Honestly, I'm very far away from the industry. I live in Islamabad. I do my bit and then I come back and I like to be around my family and everything. So I don't know exactly how things work, but I do feel like more production houses and more they need to audition. They need to have auditions, have these pamphlets and kind of spread them across social media that these auditions are happening and young actors were interested. Please email, submit your application and then. Go ahead, Osmar Mukhtar. Thank you so much for joining me on the show. Thank you, thank you, thank you Hamza. All right, so that's all that we have for now from Islamabad today on Think Tech Hawaii. This is Hamza Raffa Lozane. You can log on to our social media pages. This episode will be aired and ensure that your comments actually do come in because their feedback is extremely valuable. Take care. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn and donate to us at thinktechawaii.com. Mahalo.