 Okay, welcome everyone to our second lecture on BC310 church and ministry administration. We've been discussing a little bit on handling difficult situations and disclosed off the last lecture by saying that it's important to address difficult situations, address the matter, but especially for those of us in leadership, we should not ignore the situation, we should address it as early as possible. Abraham, you have a question please? Sir, in line with what we are discussing right now, one of our students had opportunity to go to the US, but to go to the US due to financial situations and financial problem, she happens to stay with her boyfriend now as we are speaking. So it has become an issue that we are trying to deal with, but we don't have that financial strength to support her back there and now it's like the only option she has got is to stay with her boyfriend. So I think this was also a problem where she was looking for solutions. So she joined the church over there and went to the pastor to find out what she could do. But advice from the pastor's wife was, in America, this is how we lead. If you leave the guy's house, you might lose the guy and all the stuff. So she also contacted me letting me know the situation on ground. But here is the case that she is still part of us because she's been joining our meetings and she's still a leader. We still consider her as a leader, knowing in her heart that she wants to do the right thing. And if she has the money or there's an opportunity for her to move, she will move. But there is no financial resistance. So in our case, what do we do? Do we allow her to maybe give her some time to leave the guy's house or we should just terminate her temporarily to say that she's not going to minister or she's not going to take part in the activities until she leaves the guy's house. So please, I really want to know what to do from here. Thank you so much. Yeah, I understand. It's a difficult situation. Now, so the two things here, one is obviously she is living in the house of her boyfriend or she's living in the same house. And and to us, that's a no, no, you know, it should not be that should not be happening. But what really is wrong is if they were in, you know, intimate or in some physical relationship, that's the wrong thing. Like if, example, example, if, you know, they were if they were doing example, if they were there was a man and a woman, they are just renting two rooms in this house, living separately. Okay, you know, we won't say anything about it because one is renting one part, the other one is renting the other part of staying the other part. And we are not assuming any physical relationship between them. That's, I'm just speaking in general terms. So I think the most important thing is that there should be no physical relationship. Now that's very difficult. Obviously, if you're living in the same place, and you know, we don't know what's happening. So there's a big question mark there. But I'm just pointing out what is the real what would be the real problem? The problem is not necessarily that they are renting two rooms or staying in two separate rooms. The problem is they should not be the physical relationship. And then obviously, the second important thing is a testimony, you know, what kind of a testimony does this bear to everybody who would know her, especially if she has been in a place of leadership, so on. So best thing, I know the big problem here is finances. So the best, so one is to check, you know, to make sure that morally, they are right in the right place. So it's not just about, okay, are you under the same roof? Are you living more? Are you living right before God morally? Right? We understand, okay, temporarily, you may need to live in this awkward situation of being under the same roof. But morally, are you right spiritually right before God? So that needs to be, you need to have an open conversation with her and say, Hey, we understand the situation. Temporally, you're there. But most important is, are you right before God? So you need to check that out and just have an open conversation. Second thing is, as early as possible, move to another place, right? Now, I would not agree with the advice given by the pastor, whoever, or whoever she spoke to the pastor, the pastor's right, I do not agree with that. No, we need to maintain a good testimony. So as early as possible, God can provide, right? We need to ask God, we need to look, you know, maybe she can find a home, even a temporary place where there would be somebody willing to accommodate. So it is doable. You need to look for it, pray, and then as soon as possible step out into a more honorable place, honorable position. So I think before you make a decision on whether to keep her as a leader or not, you know, the important thing is to have an open and honest conversation saying, Hey, you've been a leader, you know, what the Word of God teaches, you know, what is the right thing to do? Where are you morally before God? If there is compromise, then yes, you will have to relieve her of her position of leadership and also counselor or a warner that, you know, that whatever is going on is not right. It's not acceptable before God. And definitely it's not a good testimony. If things are morally right, there, you know, in any case, the important thing is for her to move to a different place and believe God for that. Even though financially it's difficult, God can still provide it. Yes, we got it. Okay. Yes, but that's another thing I wanted to add is, I wanted to ask is, is it possible that you observe somebody's spiritual life? Because of course, we knew, we know her very well, and we knew how she started. And we know how things are going. So is it possible that you could observe her spiritual life and know whether she's living in sin or she's not living in sin, or maybe she can be pretending and all those things? Is it possible to look from that angle? Or I have to probably go into asking questions and finding out? I mean, definitely you can observe, but I think it's better to have an honest conversation. You know, because this is not something we need to, we shouldn't be making assumptions. So it's always good to just, you know, two or three, whoever the leaders are said, you know, say, hey, we just want to make sure morally things are right. You know, otherwise, it's not acceptable. So it's good to have an open and honest conversation. Occupus that. Thank you so much. Yeah. Roshan. Pastor, I mean, what if they are not honest when you have a discussion with them in regards to personal matters and regards to sin? So how do you tackle that? How do you know? So let's, you know, in the same scenario, and I'm not presupposing anything about this person. We don't know. I'm just using it as an example. So let's say, you know, the leaders here have a conversation with her and say, you know, hey, you know, it's a very awkward situation, but we understand that temporarily because of financial needs are under the same roof, but it's not right. Now, most importantly, are you living morally right before God? There's no physical thing going on. And, you know, you're living in separate rooms and so on. And you're looking for a place to move out to, you know, so you're having an open honest conversation. If example, there's only an example, I'm not insinuating anything. But if she is not true, and she says, nothing is happening. And so on. At the same time, you need to look, you know, as leaders, you know, the Holy Spirit is speaking to us, right? So you get a sense. And then it's okay. This is what you have told us, but we are very concerned. Now, the reason I would use language like that is because of what I'm feeling in my spirit. Now, I don't want to immediately accuse, but I'm just saying, look, I'm very concerned. We don't feel right about this. We need you to move as soon as possible. And if you're not right before God, you need to get right. That means you're saying that, look, you've told us something, but it's still, you know, you're not feeling comfortable about it. Of course, everything goes back to the individual, right? And we can't force anything on a person. They need to be honest before God. That's most important. So we put it back on them and then say, look, but this is what we need to see happen. We need to see it to move out as soon as possible. And until that time, is it okay that we don't have you in a place of leadership because it's affecting the testimonies affecting, you know, a lot of things. So I think, even if they deny, or if they dishonest, they are listening to the Holy Spirit in a loving way, we are presenting to them, what is the right thing to do? And we want to see that happen urgently. And, and we leave it there. And, you know, the thing is, God will work, you know, depending on where that person is before God, God will work things out. Thank you, Pastor. All right, lots of questions. Elisha's question is, should church employees have their social media accounts monitored by the employer? So, I mean, this is just my opinion is, you know, everybody's free to do whatever they want with their social media accounts. So we don't monitor, we don't, we don't do it. I feel that if, you know, we cannot monitor everything people do in their lives, that's not what we are called to do. And we should not be doing that. We're not, you know, we're not policing, policing people. We are pastoring people. To pastor means we are, of course, we're overseeing them, but we're really imparting into their lives, teaching them how to live right, which will definitely show up in their own social media accounts. And so we don't, you know, we don't monitor their social media accounts. They're free to do whatever they want. But if something comes to our notice that's wrong, we will definitely alert them to it and, you know, handle it. But that, at least in our experience here at ABC, that has not happened. But definitely if there's something wrong, it should be addressed. Yeah. All right. Let's move forward into the next few topics here on church staff management. Last few things, usually we conduct an exit interview. So when somebody's leaving the organization, the HR person will talk to them, just ask them some basic questions about their experience. And if they have any feedback, they can. But we have to keep in mind that some of the things they say may be tainted by their, you know, by whatever they're going through. So we do ask them questions to ask them for the feedback about their experience. But then we actually invite them to give it in writing. So we have a simple document, right? And they give it to us on the last day at the time they're leaving. So that means they are completely free to say what they want. And nothing is going to be held against them. They have, you know, free. But that's a way to get feedback, which can be sometimes helpful to make changes and so on. Another point is, you know, there are labor laws, of course, in different parts of the world. So whatever the labor laws are, make sure that your Christian organization is following those laws, right? So you need to be aware of it and you need to be following those laws by the given by the local government. Few questions that have come up in the past. What can we do to help people grow within the organization? So, you know, provide training, provide opportunities, provide mentoring, and basically help fulfill their vision. So even though people are working in the organization, they have a personal vision. They would like to grow, you know, in their calling and the ministry in their profession in a certain way. So if you can help them fulfill their vision while they're also serving the vision of the organization, that would be great. Provide resources, give them assignments, you know, opportunities, things to do, also provide feedback. And the question, how do we separate the personal life of the church staff and their work at church? So this is a big, big, let's say a big question, especially when it comes to church or Christian ministry. You know, just separating personal life and church work, because all of this actually, especially in the context of church and Christian ministry, everything is just, you know, merged because who you are is where ministry is flowing from. And yet you need, you know, you need this personal space. You need time with your family. You need time for yourself where you're not doing church and ministry. So how do you keep that distinction? You know, so it's because what you, what we observe in many churches, many Christian organizations, there's all of this is a big jumble, you know, everything is all together and there is no separation. And then what happens is the whole personal life gets swallowed up in church and ministry. There's not, there's, they no more have anything called personal life. Everything is absorbed into church and ministry. And then at some point, when they wake up, they realize they've never lived a personal life or for a long time. They've never had anything personal. And sometimes the pain, the regret can be very, very painful. And you know, and people, you know, so it's a very dangerous situation to come into that place. So it's important that we encourage other people to know that they should have their own personal life, time for themselves, time for their family. And then, yeah, you are doing ministry, you're doing church work, but keep these things separate. Now, so how do we do that? One is we, we try as a church, the way we work, we try not to disturb people outside of work hours. That means I try, for example, I myself, I will not call people after six o'clock in the evening for church related things, for work related, I will not call them, or I will not call them before nine o'clock in the morning. So that means I'm respecting like, okay, this is the work time between nine and six, that's when I should call, unless it's an emergency. You know, for example, if somebody has passed away, somebody's in the hospital, then of course I need to call some of my, you know, somebody and say, hey, we need to go, so on, so forth. But otherwise, I don't, right, I'm trying to be respectful of their time, and so what happens, everybody starts doing that. So we don't disturb people outside of the work hours, unless it's an emergency. Then, for staff who are working Monday to Friday, we will not disturb them on Saturday and Sunday. There are some staff who will work Saturday and Sunday, you know, especially the pastors and others, yeah. So then their work happens on Saturday, Sunday. So we are respectful of that as well. When people are on, are taking the day off, when they are on leave, when they are sick, when away from office, when we will not call them, we will not disturb them. So these are things we practice as part of our culture. Basically, we are saying, we respect your personal life, we respect your time with your family, time away from church, away from ministry, we will not disturb. So then, everybody understands that, you know, so that when somebody is on, away from the office, don't call them, try not to disturb them. So then, it becomes part of our culture that we are respecting their personal life and we see it different from their time of work for church. So we don't disturb them in those matters. Now, there are, so that's, that's, you know, how we try to balance this, how do we separate personal life and church life and it's very important when it comes to church and Christian ministry because like I was saying earlier, if we are not careful, everything just gets absorbed in ministry and that's, that can be very painful, very harmful for somebody's life and personal life and family life and so on. So we have to be very careful and I think if you build it part of the culture, we talk about culture in another lesson, but if you make it part of the culture of your organization to respect people's personal time, then everybody follows that, everybody understands it. Now, some scenarios, you know, where it can work on the other way, that means where personal life begins to impact church. So I was talking about making sure church doesn't impact personal life, so that's one side of it, but there is a flip side to it where personal life begins to impact life on church because, again, like I said, this can be very closely connected. So what are some of the scenarios, you know, suppose somebody's working for the church, but they have ministry outside, that means they may have their own administrative ministry, they may have sometimes business things happening outside, you know, they're part of the church, they're doing their own thing outside. Now, one of the things is we don't interfere in their personal time, so what you do in your personal time is yours and you can do what you want, but if that begins to affect what's happening in church, then we raise a flag. So, example, in, you know, if they start using their role as a pastor or as a leader to talk about their business, talk about whatever they're doing outside, or they use it to raise funds or to do promotions, or, you know, if they're having a certain kind of ministry or work and there are other people in the church who are also having that similar type of ministry work and then they're using the role in the church to compete with them, that's not good, you know, and these are all real scenarios, I'm not making it up, these are things that have happened, so then we have to be very careful. So, we, I usually talk to these people, you know, especially if they're working in church or holding some position in church and say, hey, you've got to be very careful, don't let what you are doing, you know, in business or whatever you're doing affect your role in the church. Sometimes they have a poor testimony outside and then it affects what they're doing in church, you know, so if the testimony outside, outside of the work is not good, you know, and people observing them, sometimes I've got calls and messages and, hey, we saw so and so doing this and he's a church staff, then, you know, hey, so their testimony outside is affecting their role in the church and so I'll have to have conversation with them, address that. Sometimes family members start interfering with what they're doing in church, you know, so people don't regard the church as an organization, they think it's like, hey, you know, it's just some casual thing, you know, so example, the wife will call the husband to come home anytime of the day, you know, hey, no, this working for a church is like working for an organization, they're not just free to go, they have to work eight hours and so, you know, that kind of thing is happening and it's disrupting the work of the person in the church office, then that matters also, that's something that needs to be addressed or, you know, if their wife is expecting the husband to be home or not allowing them to be travel, to travel or to do, you know, whatever the work needs to do, then that's a family constraint, we have to address it and very important, no personal business dealings with church people. So sometimes, you know, I've had to address scenarios like this where somebody is, has been given a role in the church, you know, sometimes even a pastoral role, they are doing their own business outside, we don't interfere with that, but then what has happened is, they begin to engage with people in the congregate, so we tell them very clearly, you know, see, if you have a pastoral role, no business dealings with people in the church, no, but then they've violated that and then I've had to ask them to, you know, step down and of course there's this, you know, there's been situations that I've tried to resolve and so on, but it becomes very messy because somebody's in a pastoral role, they're having their own business and they get into business dealings with people in the church, it affects their role as a pastor and so, you know, it just becomes a very, very messy thing and these are things that have happened and so we always tell them ahead of time, no doing that, you know, that's not acceptable, but then if they still go out and, you know, do those kinds of things, then that's where we have to address matters and take action. Last question is, you know, how do you pastor church stuff? So again, here's another big challenge where people are working for the church, we are doing ministry but, you know, it's work, it's professional work and also maybe ministering to people, you know, you're ministering to people, you're doing professional work, it's work, you're giving your time, energy, your skills, so on and so forth and we also need to pastor them, that means take care of them spiritually because ultimately church is a spiritual ministry. Yes, it's a, we are organized in order to perform better, in order to serve people better, it's an organization from that perspective but it is really a spiritual ministry and so, while these are staff, they are working, they're doing what they are assigned to do, they also need to be cared for spiritually and so this and you know, the challenge is, when do you speak to somebody as a staff and when do you speak to them as a pastor? It's a challenge because work matters, you have to talk to them as a staff, you know, you got to do this but then there is a, there are also people who are part of the church or part of the, you know, the ministry and you need to deal with them as sheep, as a shepherd would deal with the sheep rather than as a, as an employer would deal with the staff, so when you do this, how do you balance the two and for in the mind of the staff, they also need to distinguish the two. Okay, now this person is talking to me as a pastor, now he's talking to me as an employer, right, or as a, what a manager, a team leader, whatever, in their minds also they need to distinguish, they can't say everything as purely staff or everything as purely pastor, they can't mix the two and yet as a leader you got to also take care of them as a shepherd, not only as a employer but as a shepherd and both there as a response, so it makes this whole thing more challenging, more difficult but how do you do it and here are some things, you know, you make personal time to talk to them as a pastor, right, so I'm not talking to you about your performance, I'm not talking to you about your work, I'm not talking to you about your minister, I'm talking to you about you, how are you doing, how is your family doing, how better you spiritually, you know, so you have those casual conversations and you know that they know that and you know that, that you're just speaking to them as a pastor rather than as an employer and you make opportunities for them to do ministry that will enhance them spiritually, you know, so this is not quote unquote work, this is not something where your performance is going to be watched, this is more of you growing as a believer, right, so you're creating those opportunities, giving them those opportunities, you know, one of the things we encourage people to do is go on mission trips, so we've just started our mission trips that is going to different parts of our country ministering, you know, just last weekend, yeah, I think Pratik was on that trip, people, one of our staff was also on the trip and then this week Nancy and Deepika are traveling, they're ministering at one of our outreach churches and yeah, so you know, we encourage all our staff, they get one paid mission trip a year, that means the church will pay for them and they can go and do that, you know, minister and come back, so it's an investment into their spiritual life, their development, so on and then of course whenever they need there is counseling available, they can either meet any of our pastors or counselors and so on, so this is another area of challenge, but I think if we are consciously, actively doing both, that is being an employer and a shepherd in doing both, then we can balance the two, that is there is performance but there is pastoral care as well, right, so let me stop here, pause for a moment, okay let's take up some questions before we go to the next chapter, Elisha, must all church staff be believers, Christ believers, the answer is yes, all our church staff are believers, so that we can all flow together, you know, with the same vision, understanding, mission, now we have vendors who are of course not believers, I mean vendors mentioned, these are people who will provide certain service or things, for example, you know, we rent out certain things every Sunday, like our LED panels that are put up in the chart, in the auditorium, a couple of things that you know, things that happen in the Sunday service for those who, those are vendors, they just come and provide that service, so of course they are not, they don't have to be believers and in most cases they are not believers, they come and just do their part and go, but church staff, yes, all are believers, in fact we make sure they're aligned to who we are as a church, our statement of faith, they're aligned to, you know, where we're going that they're really, you know, committed to Jesus Christ before we engage them, Abraham, how about those who are volunteering to serve, how do we deal with them, yeah, so that's our next lesson, Abraham, we have a complete lesson on working with volunteers, and that's a big area, so we're going to spend a few lectures on that and volunteers and then how do church staff relate to volunteers, that's also a big thing, a big dynamic balance because, you know, we, you need to take care of both, you need to take care of your staff, but you also need to take care of the volunteers, volunteers are very valuable and sometimes difficulties happen between staff and volunteers, you know, and so you have to manage that, so that's a very big area and we will talk about that in the next lesson. Shri Kamaria, question please. Yes sir, thank you. Sir, I want to know that, as you said, that how the pastor who is involved in the business should not engage the church, you know, into his business, so I just want to know in in in this scenario where the member of the church is a partner of pastor's business, so in that case how we will able to handle the thing, thank you. Yeah, so this is only a guideline, so you know, like what I said when I said, you know, somebody who's in a pastor or leadership role shouldn't get into any business dealings with people in the church that meant, I don't mean that, you know, they shouldn't be employed, especially there are different scenarios, for example, when I was running my software business, quite a few people who were working in the business, working for me, were also part of the church, yeah, so they were employees of the company, the software company, and they were members of the church and serving the church, so, but then everything was clear, they're not treated preferentially in the church just because they are part of the business, they're not everything's clear, so that is okay, you know, but what I meant is, no getting into any financial arrangement with people or engaging in financial dealings, so I never, for example, you know, one lady came from the church and said, I want to invest money in your company, I said, no thank you, no, well, you know, because that's a very dangerous situation, so no, you're not going to do any of that, business is separate, church is separate, so in a situation where a pastor has somebody from the congregation as a business, is running a business, somebody in pastoral person, running a business, and he's got somebody in the congregation as a member or a partner in the business, it's so important to manage that properly, that means the pastor should not give any preferential treatment to that person in the church, in the church, everybody's equal, everybody's same, now for whatever reason, you know, the pastor may have that person as a partner in his business, as long as it's managed properly, it's okay, otherwise what will happen is, if something goes wrong in the business, and this has happened so many times, that person is going to badmouth the pastor, he's going to speak to so many people, oh pastor did like this, did like that, and you know, if something goes wrong in the business, I'm saying, he's a partner with the business, something goes wrong, that person is going to create problems in the church, he's going to badmouth the pastor, he's going to, you know, just ruin a lot of things, so that's, you know, it has to be managed very carefully, so that's why I say it's better not to get into such kind of an arrangement, and I stayed completely out of it, there were a lot of people who would want to do that kind of thing with the pastor, but I said no, the only thing we did was when I was running the business was okay, if somebody needs a job, and they will come and work, you know, if they're qualified, they can, okay, yeah, some were working like that, and they're very good people, but they were not treated preferentially in any way in the church, you know, they're nothing, yeah, so examples would be, you know, when there's money transactions happening, money, which was that things happened, you know, then things go south, it was, you know, a very messy situation, very messy, because one family was affected, because they had given money to the pastor to make certain, I mean, I'm talking about the person who was in a pastoral position, they'd given money to that person to do certain investments, and that messed it up, and so now it is affecting the entire dynamic from that family with the pastoral team, you know, they were dealing with one person, but then that person was part of the pastoral team, so I had to address it and say, no, these kind of things are not allowed, you know, another situation was when there was conflict between people running similar businesses, you know, just because out of a sense of competition, you know, and it's so messy because one of them is part of the pastoral team and other person is a member of the congregation, they are running similar businesses, now they're in competition, and it's become a kind of a verbal conflict, it's very messy, said no, cannot handle these, we will not tolerate these things, you know, so that's why I always say, you know, no business dealings with people in the congregation at all, yeah. Thank you sir, thanks a lot. All right, let me just, Christopher, go ahead. Sir, thank you, Pastor, I just wanted to find out from an interview of how the church would deal with people in the congregation who may be, who may form into sin, and in one case it is confidential, and in the other case it is, you know, it is well known among the congregation that they are living in sin, so it would be different types of sin, so will churches, will church, will a church need to be able to, you know, go through the process of counseling and, you know, I'm trying to, you know, have that, you know, those people work through that and, you know, overcome that sin, or could there be situations where it could be more drastic and, you know, they may need to ask those people to actually need the church, just wanted to find out if there are any sort of scenarios that would require that action. Yeah, so the first part, definitely, you know, if they are part of the church and, you know, this thing surfaces with, you know, there's the living in sin, definitely that we get involved, or the pastor of that location will get involved to talk to people, and then it might, you know, I might also get involved, and we have, we have, and we would try to address the matter, you know, counsel the people, and, and so there have been, you know, I would say a handful of situations the last 20 years or so where we've had to deal with those kinds of matters, and we've got involved, we've tried to address it, and in some cases, especially when talking about husband and wife situations, things have been resolved and the marriages are strong today, everything is fine. In some cases, especially if people are not willing to receive counsel, they're not willing to make change, the problem just continues, you know, and sometimes we see, we have seen repeated occurrences, especially like, you know, of unfaithfulness. Sir, you're muted. Can you hear me now? Yeah. Yes. Okay, thank you, thanks. Yeah, so we do get involved, and we do address the matter, and, you know, like I said, in some situations, things have worked out fine, problems solved, marriages are safe today, and people are fine. In some cases, it's still ongoing, you know, and because one of them is not willing to change. Now, I was telling people to leave the church, that's something we would do. The Bible teaches us concerning that, and I'm just thinking of 1 Corinthians chapter 5, 2 Thessalonians chapter 3, 1 Timothy chapter 5, as references where such kind of a disciplinary action in the local church context is instructed. In these, at least here, while pastoring an APC, I can think of right now, at the think of right now, one situation where I've had to personally tell somebody not to come to church. Now, you see usually what happens is when you address a problem, sometimes people themselves leave the church, and that's a typical response, and I've seen it happen several times, where there is a problem, we address it, you know, of course everything is done privately, so nothing is done publicly, so I might meet with them, I would meet with them, and I say, hey, what you did was wrong. This is the correct action to take, and instead of repenting and taking that action, they would just leave the church, you know, so that's happened a few times, that means they're not willing to take the corrective action, they want to choose their own way, whatever, so on, and I can remember only once when I've had to tell somebody to not come to church, and this was more of, I would say like, yeah, once, and one, in one case, they just left the church, and this was more of a kind of a, I don't know what to say, maybe like a theological disagreement, so it was kind of funny, because many years ago I was doing a series, I was doing a sermon, here's a question answers, and you know, we were taking questions from the congregation, I was providing answers, and this particular person, you know, he disagreed with an answer that I gave, now of course I'm not expecting everybody to agree with me on everything, but this person disagreed and then he called on the phone and he was very, very, you know, very heated on the phone, then I just said, hey, if you're not happy, please leave the church, you know, nobody's forcing anyone to stay in the church, if you know, if my response, a biblical response to a particular question, you didn't agree with it, I mean we can disagree and still be friends, but if this disagreement is so grievous, you're free to leave the church, you know, please leave the church, don't have to come back, and so he left the church, and very interestingly his wife and children came back to the church, some, I mean some, I would say sometime recently, and they they came back, they were attending APC, so I would say his wife and one of his children, the other person I think is overseas, I'm not sure what happened, but they came back, they were attending APC and we welcomed them, I love them, welcome them, hey, you're welcome back, but I can remember that situation, other situations when people don't agree theologically, they just, again, just like how when we correct somebody, they also just leave, they may not, you know, agree with something, they don't believe in speaking in tongues or if they don't believe in them, if you don't force people, they just, you know, leave, and that's fine, they made their choice decision, yeah, I hope I answered your question, okay, all right, so we've kind of, we're going to close up this lesson on church staff management, it's a it's a big area, that's a very important area, our next lesson is on volunteer management, which also is a very important area, managing volunteers, right, so we're going to spend some time on that, now next week, Thursday, I'm actually traveling, we're doing a past conference, somewhere near Mumbai, so I'm traveling, so most likely I may have to, and I'm going to see if I can do my 9 to 10 class before I go to the conference, I'm just going to see if it's possible, just depends on the situation, otherwise I may miss both my classes next Thursday, I'll try to see if I can do my 9 to 10 class, but then, yeah, so we're going to be near Kalyan, so I think, yeah, so we're going to be near Kalyan, so it's about, I don't know, half, two hours from Mumbai, I think, some of them are there, so they're having that, so I will probably miss both my classes, but I'll try to see if I can do my 9 to 10 before I go into the conference, but then the rest of the classes we will take the week after, all right, we've got a lot of important ground to cover and we will do that, okay, could somebody close in prayer and we will dismiss, please, anyone? Sir, can I? Go ahead, sir, come on. Thank you, sir. Precious Father, we thank you and praise you for this wonderful day which are given to us by God. Father, we surrendered everything before you and we pray that Father God, every word what we received today, Lord Master, we pray that Father, give us grace, Lord Master, let it all deeply rooted in us, let it let be able to preserve in our heart with Father God, let it increase our wisdom and knowledge of Father God so that we can able to move ahead of Father God with this understanding, with this knowledge, with this revelation, Lord Master, thank you for removing our ignorance, Father God, through your word of God, thank you once again for strengthening your servant of God and also not as he's traveling for the ministry, Lord Master, bless him and use him mightily, Lord Master, and to him, Lord Master, many lives be touched and blessed, Father. Thank you, Father God, for all the glory, honor and praises belongs to you in Jesus' name we pray. Amen. Thank you, Master. Amen. Thank you, everyone. Enjoy the rest of your day. I'll see you soon again. Thank you. Bye now.