 It's time for the Lawn Jean Chronoscope a television journal of the important issues of the hour brought to you every Monday Wednesday and Friday a presentation of the Lawn Jean Wettner watch company maker of Lawn Jean the world's most honored watch and Wettner distinguished companion to the world honored Lawn Jean Good evening. This is Frank Knight may I introduce our co-editors for this edition of the Lawn Jean Chronoscope? They are CBS news correspondence Larry Lassur and Winston Burdette our distinguished guest for this evening is the right Reverend G. Bromley oxenham bishop of the Methodist Church There's some 21 million Christians in the world who call themselves Methodists It is in fact the world's largest Protestant Church and our guest tonight is one of its most articulate leaders And we're happy to have him here at this season Bishop oxen do you think it can be said that there is a genuine Resurgence of religion in this country. Well, mr. Lassur. That's a difficult question personally. I believe there is I think it's evidence for instance in the statistics regarding church membership There are many people who do not realize that membership was quite low in revolutionary days I mean the American Revolution There are only about five percent of the people belong to the churches back in the days of the American Revolution in 1850 16 percent in 1936 percent in 1950 57 percent now 60 now if church membership means anything I take it that there is evidence here of research The primary matter for us to have in mind however is that we don't determine religious significance by numbers We deal with religious significance in terms of quality and I'd like to have you check on that on your own Bishop oxen we've heard a good deal these days about the prospects for unity among the many sects and churches of this country How do you estimate the chances for unity today? Well, you use the term unity There is unity at the moment for instance 33 of the great denominations of the United States representing a membership of 35 millions are Together in cooperation in the National Council of the Churches of Christ in the United States That is unity now, perhaps you had in mind organic union if we are going to have union That is not separate denominations cooperating at the national level or at the world level as we have in the world council of churches I think one of the principles we've got to insist upon is diversity in unity in a word we've got to conserve all the values of the many different searches for the eternal and We are learning to work and worship and witness together. It's extraordinary what is going on I haven't time at the moment to go into that in detail But I think we're going to take our steps first by uniting the great families by that I mean there were three major Methodist groups in the United States We united them in 1939 to form the United the Methodist Church and similarly other unions have occurred when we get these families together Then I think somebody's going to bridge the gulf maybe the Methodist Church in the Episcopal Church for instance Our Episcopalian friends will not think that I'm holding them to this at the moment But there's good reason for that and after we've broken down these barriers that separate the different families Maybe someday the Protestants and the great Orthodox churches will consider the wisdom of being together and personally I hope the day will come when all of us will be Christian enough Roman Catholic Orthodox Protestant to kneel at a common altar and ask God to forgive us for our divisions and Giant hands there's good reason to be together and today when our faith is challenged Bishop oxham speaking of unity Do you think that the churches of this country are doing enough to play a progressive role in the integration of our races in this country the white and colored races Sir you know how to ask embarrassing questions nice This is one place where I find it difficult to answer personally I don't like to have The churches taught their Christianity by the Brooklyn Dodgers We should have been teaching our Christianity not in terms of talking about our father who art in heaven and therefore we're brothers But in concrete application of that principle I think branch Ricky in bringing Jackie Robinson in did more concretely than much of what we have been doing now There's a tremendous amount going on that I haven't time to recount and I'm proud of that But I sincerely trust the church will not be the last institution to move in to the real expression of its faith and Do away with segregation in every form at the moment We're all on record as opposed to segregation in fact those are the statements But when it comes to the actual practice of it I'm afraid Mr. Lissor that we're yet remiss Although we are making progress that I'd be proud to recite if there were time Well Bishop oxen is that how do you feel about this new and simple approach to religion of reassurance of positive thinking? Well, of course, there's value in positive thinking there's value I suppose in any faith that enables a man to move out in Strength toward the future But I think there's danger here that we may identify Christianity with the cult of success and Assume that because a man is a Christian therefore he must be successful let us say in monetary terms or in terms of the Occupation he happens to hold this seems to be an assumption if you just think positively you're going to be present with the company tomorrow morning Well, they just aren't enough openings along that line And I mustn't forget the fact that Christianity is a religion grounded in love that at its heart is the symbol of the cross But we move out in terms of sacrifice the people are transformed as we spend our lives for others and While that isn't denied in positive thinking there's a certain Emphasis here that I think needs to be watched very very carefully Bishop oxen on another subject I'd like to ask you what is the official attitude of the Protestant churches on the subject of the atomic bomb? Well, there is no official attitude of Protestant churches Upon any subject because one of the traditions of the whole Protestant movement is the right of private judgment We believe that the individual must be free to make up his own mind now having said that official action has been taken by Democratic bodies representing Certain of the Protestant churches the world council of churches itself, which is a body now of 167 churches representing a membership of perhaps 200 millions Representing perhaps most of the non-Roman Christian world there are notable exceptions to that this body has taken action Recognizing the situation that you're now face In world affairs, but nevertheless seeing in the hydrogen bomb a Fundamental moral challenge that has to be faced and has taken the position first of all that we will not use it Ourselves in any aggressive way that if we are attacked by those who use the atomic bomb We will work through the United Nations in terms of what he's now called collective security And I realized there's something of a problem there Generally the churches are of the opinion that we now have a weapon that enables us Well, I don't like that word enabled that moves toward murder and eventual suicide And that something morally wrong in the use of a weapon that really destroys Humanity when God created the earth the the story was that man was to have dominion over the earth and subdue it He wasn't supposed to destroy it. There's something here that cuts across a fundamental purpose We're opposed to the use of these tremendous weapons that we recognize in the world in which we now live There may be times when if we faced attack by such weapons We might do the immoral thing from one point of view and perhaps the necessary thing from another to depend on speaking of the present-day challenges and The challenge of the superior numbers of communist manpower What are the objections of the Protestant Church to universal military training? Well, it's very difficult to answer that question in just a word There are certain basic objections and most of our churches are on record as opposed to compulsory universal military training Of course, there's a new reserve system now. Do you know that there is no difference really from the standpoint of the compulsory aspect of it There are a hundred thousand men who may volunteer but down underneath that the whole thing is based upon compulsion And that's the basic objection of the church We feel that somehow we are writing into American life upon a prominent basis a program of compulsory universal military training We're opposed to it from this point of view that I think it's significant We don't like to see our youth Brought to an authoritarian system in which you find the basic principle is absolute obedience Somehow that conditions a man in such a fashion that we think democracy is going to be jeopardized I mean when you think of the free man and the free society seeking the truth that frees the creative individual We feel educationally. There's something unsound here. There are many other reasons I don't know whether you want to go into the sir in this day and age Do you believe that we can afford not to have a permanent military reserve program? I didn't say that we were not to have a permanent military. I mean a military reserve program We have in selective service an emergency situation developed to meet an emergency Which ends when the emergency ends and that emergency may run for a long time I grant you our objection is the writing of this permanently Into the real life of the United States of America. That's what we're doing and we don't believe it's good national defense I believe in a strong national defense, but I don't believe it can be shown here that this is really good national defense You draw fast sums that could be much better used. I think for research for the development of a professional army Listen for proper weapons and the like I'm trying to summarize this too much, but it's Take for instance the Air Force. They're not calling for this nor is the Navy Nor is nor are the United States Marines as something here that we need to think about I don't think it's good national defense and it gives you a false sense of security when you get these large numbers of men You think you've got something. I don't think you can train a soldier in six months The Air Force needs four years, and I think we'd be much better off to have a highly trained professional army and Build your reserves out of a selective service system on the basis of an emergency, but that's all too brief I haven't stated the case. In other words, you feel that it would be establishing a tradition in this country Which you would not approve of I want to thank you very much Bishop Oxham for coming here tonight at this season when of course we all think of peace. 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